EV Digest 2667
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Anyone know of anyone who can fix Curtis Controllers?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Got the amps not the ???
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: TEVan charger schematic - more diagrams
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) AC controllers
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Got the amps not the ???
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Got the amps not the ???
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: AC controllers
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Anyone know of anyone who can fix Curtis Controllers?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fridge based energy sources
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charging regulators.... (medium to long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: AC controllers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Anyone know of anyone who can fix Curtis Controllers?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) The evil deed is done... was Re: Electric Supra?
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Tom and Ray on Hydrogen cars.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) My VW Pickup for sale is online
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Got the amps not the ???
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Hey, everybody, look over there!
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Fridge based energy sources
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fridge based energy sources
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: My VW Pickup for sale is online
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) New EV owner, reverse inheritance
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmmmmmm.....Lots of Curtis abuse going on. Anyone in the Bay Area that can
fix a Curtis? Anyone have a spare controller that will work at 120v or 240v
or anywhere in between? Contact me on or offline with the details...Rich
Brown..You got your ears on??? What happened to your old controller????
Before the Burger....Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Workman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:15 PM
Subject: Anyone know of anyone who can fix Curtis Controllers?
> Hello Everyone,
>
> This is Ivan Lee Workman. I am looking for someone who
> can fix my Curtis Controller. Curtis won't touch it
> because it was an engineering sample, so I am stuck.
> If there is someone who can fix my curtis controller
> for me, I would really like to know. I am in Southern
> California near Anaheim area. Any info would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ivan Lee Workman
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You probable won't believe this but "This is your lucky day" . As now you
can move right on up to a bigger controller. Once you plug in one of those
monster controllers and hit the go pedal you'll feel better . At least you
didn't burn it out hooking it up wrong . At least you didn't Burn out the
motor. At least it didn't blow out and stay full on. At least now your a
member of the "I blow up a Curtis club" ,was this your first? At least you
have the people on the list to empathize with you. We may get a thread of
blown crutis controllers stories ( how would ya like to work for Curtis and
see that) . I will say this (just because I may have to have one repaired
someday) there new one's are much better that the old one's . The last one I
had fixed (from the factory) runs much better the it did before , I call
them and told them they were doing something right and was told the fets and
better , lower R ect.
I'm almost sure that you can't take off from a stop and go up hill at the
same time with one. That voids the warranty . (joke)
Any time I have problems like this and I'm testing around I put a light (500
watt halogen light so at least I get some amps) in line with the batteries .
This way if something is shorted all that happens is the light comes on .
Put it on the batteries side , a good place is were you have the fuse, just
take out the fuse and put your light bulb there. (I have learned most of
these tricks the hard way ) , also unplug your E- meter dc/dc converter and
bat charger (and anything else you want to keep working) before doing any
testing ( did you unplug you meter before testing your motor? ) . Stuff
just happens. At least you didn't blow your e-meter/dc converter and
charger. I hope we can say "at least he didn't buy a gasser"
Last one I blow and this was quite a while ago I was so discussed I decided
I'd just drive home (it blow full on coming off a red light) . Sparks and
flames coming out under the hood , It had that DCP acceleration , " @#$ if
it last 1 minute I'll make it home " it didn't , I did get across the light
. That was one controller that can't be fixed .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> What model Curtis controller? Which hill in SF? - if I'm down
> there with my EV, maybe I will give it a try sometime... Some of
> those hills are downright scary! Gulp!
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 3:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
>
>
> > Well I took the batteries off the top of the motor and hooked
> up a battery
> > charger. 2amps it went 10 amps faster and 50 amps faster yet.
> It probably
> > isn't the motor. I checked further and found the fuse blown in
> the Curtis
> > voltage sense line. I replace the fuse and put it back
> together. Nothing.
> > I now think the Curtis is blown. I get 1800 ohms across B+ &
> B-. Dead
> > short between B- and M-. 5v aprox. between M- and B+. A2
> isn't hooked up.
> > I was in first gear going up a steep San Francisco hill. The
> car is 3200
> > pounds I am 250. Four 5th graders Probably 400 pounds maybe
> more. That is
> > close to 3900 pounds. I have gone up this hill many times and
> always almost
> > stall. This must have been the straw. Is there any way to
> test the Curtis
> > static and under power? Thanks for any help and I wonder how
> that little
> > 1000 amp controller would work in my Aspire. Is the Curtis
> worth rebuilding
> > and does anyone soup them up. Lawrence Rhodes..........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> >
> >
> > > bummer ... what gear were you in? Hope its just a cable
> bruned off.
> > what
> > > motor do you have??
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 7:25 AM
> > > Subject: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I went up a hill I almost stall on everytime with an extra
> 350 pounds.
> > I
> > > > stalled and tried to feather the clutch and something
> stopped working.
> > I
> > > > had to back down the hill. The big 400 amp fuse is good.
> I smell
> > > something
> > > > burnt coming up from the motor...sobbbbbbbb..... Gotta
> jack it up and
> > > test
> > > > the motor.l..What could it be.....????Lawrence Gotta drive
> an ice to
> > work
> > > > sob.....Rhodes.........
> > > >
> > >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a 1221C. It's Miguel going west from Mission. East is Richland. It
always draws 350 to 400 motor amps and then almost stalls. It's top of the
Bernal hill area on Mission past the numbered streets and before 280
overcrossing. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> What model Curtis controller? Which hill in SF? - if I'm down
> there with my EV, maybe I will give it a try sometime... Some of
> those hills are downright scary! Gulp!
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 3:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
>
>
> > Well I took the batteries off the top of the motor and hooked
> up a battery
> > charger. 2amps it went 10 amps faster and 50 amps faster yet.
> It probably
> > isn't the motor. I checked further and found the fuse blown in
> the Curtis
> > voltage sense line. I replace the fuse and put it back
> together. Nothing.
> > I now think the Curtis is blown. I get 1800 ohms across B+ &
> B-. Dead
> > short between B- and M-. 5v aprox. between M- and B+. A2
> isn't hooked up.
> > I was in first gear going up a steep San Francisco hill. The
> car is 3200
> > pounds I am 250. Four 5th graders Probably 400 pounds maybe
> more. That is
> > close to 3900 pounds. I have gone up this hill many times and
> always almost
> > stall. This must have been the straw. Is there any way to
> test the Curtis
> > static and under power? Thanks for any help and I wonder how
> that little
> > 1000 amp controller would work in my Aspire. Is the Curtis
> worth rebuilding
> > and does anyone soup them up. Lawrence Rhodes..........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> >
> >
> > > bummer ... what gear were you in? Hope its just a cable
> bruned off.
> > what
> > > motor do you have??
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 7:25 AM
> > > Subject: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I went up a hill I almost stall on everytime with an extra
> 350 pounds.
> > I
> > > > stalled and tried to feather the clutch and something
> stopped working.
> > I
> > > > had to back down the hill. The big 400 amp fuse is good.
> I smell
> > > something
> > > > burnt coming up from the motor...sobbbbbbbb..... Gotta
> jack it up and
> > > test
> > > > the motor.l..What could it be.....????Lawrence Gotta drive
> an ice to
> > work
> > > > sob.....Rhodes.........
> > > >
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Garry , You are so Full of ideas ,. I am looking so forward to seeing
your EV project. While 98% of the EV community is standing on firm ground
you dare to fly in outer space. Many of us ,myself included are not willing
to spend the time trying these things out . A starter motor to give your EV
that little boost run off the aux bat. Who would have though it.
With ideas like these your EV will be one to see. How about posting that web
site again so all these unbelievers can see your handy work.
Steve Clunn , Florida "gen on a wheel capital "
----- Original Message -----
From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Got the amps not the ???
> Hi Lawrence,
>
> If I found myself in your situation where there is just one hill that
maybe
> only takes a minute or so to get up and my EV couldn't quite do it, but
did
> everything else flawlessly I would simply add some power for the hill and
> nothing more.
>
> I don't know what a car starter motor weighs, but its not much just like
its
> cost and while it draws heaps, if you only need a boost for 1 hill it
might
> even be economical to use it.
>
> In a standard EV you could give yourself a boost from your single 12 volt
> battery without taking a bit out of your pack and unbalancing them.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I posted the charger functional diagram at the request of Lee Hart.
http://www.qsl.net/w8rnh/chgcntrl.pdf
There is also a brief description of the control card operation below.
I posted some scanned schematics of the TEVan
battery charger control card.
http://www.qsl.net/w8rnh/battchgr.pdf
This is 1 Mb and may be somewhat difficult to see all
component values.
http://www.qsl.net/w8rnh/batchgr.pdf
This schematic is more detailed with all components
easy to see.
Lee,
I created the pdf's to be compatible with Acrobat 4.0 and higher, so I'm
not sure how reliable they can be read with 3.0.
I have another diagram that shows how the rest of the charger (magnetics
and power semiconductors) interface to the control card.
I should have posted that at the same time, it will be much more
informative.
Some of the more interesting portions of the circuit;
upper left - very old, but very reliable power supply with wide input range.
There are much better (efficiency etc.)supplies available today, but this
design
is probably 20 years old and is probably on almost every GE based forklift.
bottom left - Green wire integrity test. This is a low current detection
circuit
that checks to see if there is leakage to ground before closing the main AC
contactor.
Top/Top left - Hysteretic control. IGBT gate drive and current limit
circuit. This
is very reliable and will protect the IGBT's with a direct short on the
charger output
terminals.
Middle right - ground fault circuit interrupt - This was on the original
TEVan chargers
but was removed because it occasionally had false trips. This circuit was
active while
the van was charging. It was replaced with a commercial GFCI interrupt
circuit breaker
mounted on the battery charger enclosure.
I'll post the functional diagram later today.
If you have any questions let me know.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am new to this discussion group, so maybe this has been discussed already.
Are there any AC controllers on the market suitable and economical for
custom EV's? Curtis has some interesting units in their brochure, but
apparently, based on the response below from their North American rep, they
are not yet ready for prime time. I expect AC controller costs to
eventually drop to the point of being cost competitive with DC. Thanks for
any help you can offer, Mark Thomasson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Waite, Steven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mark Thomasson'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 4:45 PM
Subject: RE: Sales enquiry from the Engineeringtalk website
> Mark,
>
> For general information release Curtis only has the data sheet available
on
> our website. The 1234 is an active project, not yet a released product.
> 1238/1236 are products for AC development purposes.
>
> BR,
> Steve...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Thomasson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:16 PM
> To: Waite, Steven
> Subject: Re: Sales enquiry from the Engineeringtalk website
>
>
> Steven,
...............
I propose building a test vehicle using your model 1234 with a 36
> or 48 volt system. I will need 3.7 kW output from the controller to
sustain
> 40 mph for one hour in short urban commutes. I need 8.5 kWh for 60 mph
> bursts of less than 2 minutes. .......................Do you have
detailed
> specification sheets for your AC controllers, similar to the those
provided
> for the DC controllers...........................> Mark Thomasson
> 281-554-8004
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Waite, Steven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Mark Thomasson'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 6:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Sales enquiry from the Engineeringtalk website
>
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > Thanks for your questions about our AC controllers. We have not done
any
> > efficiency studies to show that AC brushless systems provide more
battery
> > life than DC systems in off-road applications. GM and the other auto
> makers
> > did do some studies a few years ago to determine that AC was a more
> > efficient way to go for on-road applications. You may be able to
uncover
> > some studies regarding this at scirius.com, a search engine for
scientific
> > papers.
> >
> > You are right about the cost of AC electronic controls, though. They
are
> > more expensive than DC controls. The tradeoff is in the cost savings in
> AC
> > motors. Right now OEM's that are in volume production of AC powered
> > vehicles are experiencing cost premiums for an AC system of about 10%
> > relative to a DC system.
> >
> > Curtis Instruments is a custom engineering and manufacturing business
for
> > motor control technology. We do have some distributors for older analog
> > control technologies, but for custom microprocessor-based DC and AC
> control
> > systems we work directly with the OEM. Depending on what it is you are
> > trying to do, we may be able to work directly with you on an AC system,
or
> > recommend a DC approach if you're more comfortable with that. In order
to
> > provide additional information on pricing or whether it would make sense
> for
> > you to work through a distributor please let me know what type of power
> > train you're considering, basic power requirements, motor types, etc.;
> > anything that you don't consider confidential in nature would help.
> >
> > BR,
> > Steve...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Thomasson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:36 PM
> > To: Waite, Steven
> > Subject: Re: Sales enquiry from the Engineeringtalk website
> >
> >
> > Steven,
> >
> > Thanks for the brochure. How can I get more information on cost and
> > efficiency of these drive units? Does your company provide a comparison
> of
> > AC vs. DC drive units? AC has many advantages, but also higher cost of
> the
> > electronics. Do you have any studies that would assist the design
> engineer
> > in making a decision between the two? Also, are there local vendors for
> > Curtis products, or do I order directly from Curtis Instruments?
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Mark Thomasson
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about a bypass contactor?
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Got the amps not the ???
I live in San Francisco. Famous for hills. I finally met my match. Would
a 600 amp controller be a better choice or what might I have done not to fry
the controller. I always almost stall on this hill anyway. I had about a
hundred more pounds in the car than I had ever had. I also didn't run the
stop sign as fast as I usually do. I was being careful. The 1221C has
worked well so far. I have a fairly heavy vehicle 3200 pounds. What
modifications to the Curtis for abuse or what beefier controller might I get
to replace the Curtis if that might be more cost effective. Lawrence
Rhodes........Wasn't there some beta units out there that might work
well?????
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I now think the Curtis is blown. I get 1800 ohms across B+ & B-. Dead
short between B- and M-. 5v aprox. between M- and B+. A2 isn't hooked up.
I was in first gear going up a steep San Francisco hill.
Stalling the motor for more than an instant is a very good way to
fry a Curtis. It is also a good way to burn a commutator bar or two.
Definitely a no-no in every respect.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:19 PM 3/21/03, you wrote:
I live in San Francisco. Famous for hills. I finally met my match. Would
a 600 amp controller be a better choice or what might I have done not to fry
the controller.
More amps are always better. :^)
Stalling the motor is very bad. Running it on high current
sensibly is not a problem.
You have to be careful about "duty cycle" however. You can
overheat the motor if you run too much current through it for too long. I
run 1500 amps through each of the 6.7" motors in the KillaCycle, but I do
it for just a couple of seconds and then let the motors rest (and cool) for
15 minutes or more.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:39 AM 3/22/03, you wrote:
I am new to this discussion group, so maybe this has been discussed already.
Are there any AC controllers on the market suitable and economical for
custom EV's? Curtis has some interesting units in their brochure, but
apparently, based on the response below from their North American rep, they
are not yet ready for prime time. I expect AC controller costs to
eventually drop to the point of being cost competitive with DC. Thanks for
any help you can offer, Mark Thomasson
You could search the list archives and get lots of information on
this exact subject.
In a nutshell:
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.metricmind.com>
sells very nice Siemens AC drive systems at very affordable prices. If you
are planning an AC drive for a conversion, but don't want to build your own
from scratch, buy one from Victor.
AC drives will never be as cheap as DC drives. This is because it
takes six times as much power silicon to build an AC drive than it does to
build a DC drive of the same voltage and wattage. AC motors are only
slightly cheaper than DC motors.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Golftech Industries fixes the smaller ones for sure. They might work on the
larger types too -- email or call and ask. The fact that it's a nonstandard
type might or might not bother them.
http://www.golftechind.com/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler wrote:
> Imagine if we had an alien technology energy extractor that
> converted heat into electricity (a bit like solar cells do with
> light). We could have a container of liquid or gas that we
> extracted the heat from, creating electricity, and a Stirling
> engine plus generator to create more electricity as it warmed
> back up.
>
> It would take the intellect of Douglas Adams to make such a thing
> reality, and unfortunately, he is no longer with us.
Interestingly enough, there *is* a device that can do this. It was
invented by the genius James Clerk Maxwell (author of the famous
Maxwell's equations). Here's his idea:
Imagine that you have a little box, completely closed except for a
little door. A demon sits at this door. When he sees a fast-moving air
molecule inside the box heading for the door, he opens the door and lets
it fly out. Likewise, if he sees a slow-moving air molecule outside the
box heading for the door, he lets it in. The rest of the time, the door
is closed, and air molecules just bounce off it.
Over time, the box becomes predominantly filled with slow-moving air
molecules. This is the definition of cold air. The box is a
refrigerator. The energy required to open and close the little door is
less than then energy of the air molecules passing thru it; thus you
have a "something for nothing" machine.
"Maxwell's Demon" (as it is called) does not violate the laws of
thermodynamics on a microscopic level, but DOES violate them on a
macroscopic scale. Maxwell was a theoretician -- he never tried to build
one. But many other researchers have worked on it, with some success.
There have been devices that worked, but consumed more energy to operate
that "door" than the heat energy gained.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rick wrote:
> I have some solar panels... I bought charge controllers that seem
> a bit off... The cut-off voltage seems to be around 13.2 volts.
> Way too low for my instincts regarding proper finish charging
> voltage for my SLA/AGM's.
I agree. 13.2v is about the lowest possible float voltage you can use
with lead-acid batteries. It will take a month or more to reach full
charge at this voltage.
> I have regulator circuits galore that are part of various 13.8 volt
> power supplies I use in my other hobbies... If I parallel the output
> from the solar cells into the power supply circuit, putting the
> wires across the same connections as the output side of the
> transformer, it seems it should work as a charge controller, except
> it wouldn't pulse or just "cut off". It would give me a nice trickle
> charge and taper for finishing off the charge cycle.
*Most* voltage regulators will work this way. But there are plenty of
exceptions (constant-voltage transformer regulators, switching supplies,
linear regulators that lack overcurrent or overtemperature protection,
etc.). I'd only try it with supplies where I didn't care if they died a
violent death.
The solar cells would need to be connected AFTER the rectifiers, across
the big filter capacitor at the input to the regulator.
You'd have to be sure the peak no-load voltage from the solar panel is
less than this capacitor's voltage rating.
You need a blocking diode in series with the solar panel (in case it
doesn't already have one). Without this diode, power from the battery
and/or AC power if it is plugged in will use your solar panel as a giant
resistor.
Finally, constant voltage charging is really best for float
applications, where the battery is not used for long periods of time.
For an Ebike that is used regularly, you want a charger that charges to
a higher voltage, and then shuts off completely.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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On 22 Mar 2003 at 6:44, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> It always draws 350 to 400 motor amps and then almost stalls.
Lawrence, what gear were you using to climb that hill? (Maybe you mentioned
in a previous post and I forgot.)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has a source for rebuilt Curtis
controllers. Rod can even "hop up" your controller to put out more amps and
work at high voltage by rebuilding the power section with beefier FETs. Get
more amps for less than the cost of a replacement. Such a deal.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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On 22 Mar 2003 at 9:39, Mark Thomasson wrote:
> Are there any AC controllers on the market suitable and economical for custom
> EV's?
Siemens: http://www.metricmind.com/
Solectria: http://www.solectria.com/
Brusa: http://www.brusa.biz/
EVC: http://members.aol.com/evguru/evc2600.html
AC Propulsion: http://www.acpropulsion.com/
Metric Mind sells surplus Siemens drives -- probably the most affordable and
most hobbyist-friendly of the above. Various sizes. Victor is on this list
and I'm sure will be happy to provide more information.
Brusa's drives are relatively low power, suited for small vehicles. They
have a long history with road EVs and have been in many Tour de Sol vehicles
(they used to be sold under the Solectria name). It's more of a hassle now
to get them, but Metric Mind might be able to help, as they sell other Brusa
products. Or you could take a big suitcase along on your next Swiss
vacation. <g>
Solectria is mainly focusing on larger vehicles and hybrids, and I don't
know whether they still sell to hobbyists. Call and ask.
I think EVC adapts industrial drives for EVs. They've been in a few TdS
vehicles in recent years. I don't know about prices.
AC Propulsion is powerful, and pretty rarified in the price department.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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At 1:22 PM -0500 3/22/03, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
Golftech Industries fixes the smaller ones for sure. They might work on the
larger types too -- email or call and ask. The fact that it's a nonstandard
type might or might not bother them.
http://www.golftechind.com/
Golf tech does offer rebuild services on the larger units.
I sent a customer to them back in April 02 for a 1221 rebuild.
We have just received the unit back for the third time a couple weeks
ago. We are hoping that this one will work correctly unlike the first
two times. I have a list of 14 phone calls which I have made during
the intervening time to try to get the issues resolved. This is in
addition to the many emails that the customer has placed as well.
In short, I am sorry that I can not recommend the services of Golf
Tech Industries.
Other than Curtis themselves, I don't know anyone who is repairing them.
Partial schematics and advice are available to those who decide to
work on them themselves. Some info is here:
http://CafeElectric.com/curtis/index.html
Also, the EV-Tech list is great for discussing details. http://evtech.org/
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Hi everyone!
Wow, the fur's flying a bit over that electric
motor/ back-EMF debate..... but I'm not gonna say anything
on that thread. :-0
Well, today I shelled out some of my hard-earned cash,
and now a huge blood-red Toyota Supra is lurking in my
driveway! What a car....
I spent the day fiddling with it, put in some antifreeze
( can't beleive my friend didn't put any in it ), and
seeing if I can fix the overheating thing. I have a nasty
feeling the head gasket is the source of the trouble.
Expensive.....
Anyway, if I can fix it, fine. I'll drive it for a while,
and plan how to turn it into an EV in a couple of years.
If I can't fix it, I'll just have to accelerate my plans
and convert it sooner!
So, some serious planning is now in order.
First off, I need to collect data on the car
( car's mass, engine's mass, gear ratios,
can the auto box be used or should I not use it,
how many batteries can fit, how much ICE junk could
be removed, etc. )
Should be some fun times ahead....
Richard Bebbington
Electric Mini pickup
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Dear Tom and Ray:
President Bush talked about a "hydrogen car" in his State of the Union
address. Is this a realistic possibility during the Bush administration? --
Jim
Ray: Maybe during the Jenna Bush administration, Jim. The technology itself
works, but people "in the know" say it's going to be at least 20 years
before hydrogen-powered cars are viable on a large scale -- if then.
Tom: The main problems are: (1) the fuel cell "stacks" are still incredibly
expensive to build, (2) the range of the cars is insufficient and (3)
there's no national infrastructure (like gas stations) to support hydrogen.
So it's not going to happen anytime soon.
Ray: So, why is the president talking about hydrogen-powered cars? Well, in
my humble opinion, he's creating a distraction.
Tom: I think so, too. You probably know that we now import boatloads of
foreign oil every day. And almost everybody agrees that this is not a good
thing (except for the countries that sell us the oil). So what do you do
about it?
Ray: Well, you can try to find more oil here at home, by drilling in
Alaska's forests, for instance. Or you can force people to use less oil. The
president knows that both of these options are pretty unpopular. So he's
doing what any good politician would do: He's changing the subject.
Tom: Here's another reason why he might want to distract us from thoughts of
fuel economy and foreign oil. With no pressure on American car companies to
increase gas mileage, the Japanese have taken a significant lead in the most
important new propulsion technology in decades: hybrid engines. Hybrid
engines use battery power some of the time and gasoline power at other
times, and they never have to be plugged in. They're a great way to increase
mileage without sacrificing power or convenience. And you're going to see
Americans adopting them in big numbers over the next five to 10 years.
Ray: Who makes the best-selling hybrid cars in America? Honda and Toyota.
So, instead of urging America to make more fuel-efficient cars and cut down
on foreign oil by raising the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, or
urging U.S. manufacturers to catch up with the Japanese on hybrids -- which
would make a huge difference right away -- the president's talk about
hydrogen cars is, essentially, the old "Hey, everybody, look over there!"
� 2003 by Tom and Ray Magliozzi and Doug Berman Distributed by King Features
Syndicate, Inc.
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<http://paul-g.home.attbi.com/>
Its a little web page my son whipped up to show my VW Pickup. It has
current photos of the Pickup in running form instead of shots from
right after it was painted that are in the EValbum.
Neon
P.S. - we are working on a more complete web page with pictures of
both the Pickup and the Buggy
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I live in San Francisco. Famous for hills. I finally met my match. Would
a 600 amp controller be a better choice or what might I have done not to fry
the controller.
I would recommend a Curtis 1231C to replace the 1221. A 3200lbs
vehicle is really to much for the little 1221. Of course, if you want
to have alot more fun you should contact Otmar :-)
To not fry the controller you should attack a really steep hill in
1st gear. Whatever you do, don't let the motor stall as that can
damage it.
Neon
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--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence POSTed a Click and Clack piece on fcvs.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/37671
After reading the piece, yea, we kind of knew that.
But with everyone distracted, and the media wearing
fcvs on their front pages like Britney's latest
fashion, we ought to constantly slap the media back
to reality.
That EVs were only half heartedly offered and dropped
after automakers felt they did not have to even try
automaker's CARB lawsuit and the Fed's backing aganist
EV and for ICE profits).
The media should be reminded, that all this fcv tax
money will blik for a delay until the automakers say
"it can't be done".
...
If there is anything that should be fought for, is for
List'ers to stay in contact with their local Air Resources
Board to continue their offer for public EV charging
funds/grants, and their ARB media statements that EVs
have positive air quality benefits and should be made
available to the public.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
"Maxwell's Demon" (as it is called)----
I have little demon's that let fast moving molecules in, and slow
moving ones out, making the compressor run constantly. These are called
"children"
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 2:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fridge based energy sources
Mark Fowler wrote:
> Imagine if we had an alien technology energy extractor that
> converted heat into electricity (a bit like solar cells do with
> light). We could have a container of liquid or gas that we
> extracted the heat from, creating electricity, and a Stirling
> engine plus generator to create more electricity as it warmed
> back up.
>
> It would take the intellect of Douglas Adams to make such a thing
> reality, and unfortunately, he is no longer with us.
Interestingly enough, there *is* a device that can do this. It was
invented by the genius James Clerk Maxwell (author of the famous
Maxwell's equations). Here's his idea:
Imagine that you have a little box, completely closed except for a
little door. A demon sits at this door. When he sees a fast-moving air
molecule inside the box heading for the door, he opens the door and lets
it fly out. Likewise, if he sees a slow-moving air molecule outside the
box heading for the door, he lets it in. The rest of the time, the door
is closed, and air molecules just bounce off it.
Over time, the box becomes predominantly filled with slow-moving air
molecules. This is the definition of cold air. The box is a
refrigerator. The energy required to open and close the little door is
less than then energy of the air molecules passing thru it; thus you
have a "something for nothing" machine.
"Maxwell's Demon" (as it is called) does not violate the laws of
thermodynamics on a microscopic level, but DOES violate them on a
macroscopic scale. Maxwell was a theoretician -- he never tried to build
one. But many other researchers have worked on it, with some success.
There have been devices that worked, but consumed more energy to operate
that "door" than the heat energy gained.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>> "Maxwell's Demon" (as it is called)----
> I have little demon's that let fast moving molecules in, and slow
> moving ones out, making the compressor run constantly. These are
> called "children".
Thanks, Rod for my laugh of the day! :-) Kid... Oh, how often have I
wondered that there was a way to harness all that energy.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
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Do you offer a discount for loyal Mac owners? :)
I can't afford it right now, but I would LOVE to get an rabbit truck EV.
What is the range like?
Seth
Paul G wrote:
>
> <http://paul-g.home.attbi.com/>
> Its a little web page my son whipped up to show my VW Pickup. It has
> current photos of the Pickup in running form instead of shots from
> right after it was painted that are in the EValbum.
>
> Neon
>
> P.S. - we are working on a more complete web page with pictures of
> both the Pickup and the Buggy
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Well, it's not a roadgoing EV, but my brothers and I dropped the
Elec-Trak off at the parent's house today as an anniverary gift. It was
made about 1971, my parents were married in 1968, so it is kind of
appropriate
It still needs some refurb (motor brushes and some other parts are on
order) but one less blue smoke belching riding lawnmower in the world.
The Craftsman is going to the scrapheap. The 30 year old electric
tractor is victorious. Plans are already being made to grade the
driveway after mud season is over. (Dad is a civil engineer, and every
civil engineer needs a bulldozer at home!) Mom is happy she can ride
without the smoke.
When I get the trim back on it (it is John Deere yellow now) I will put
a pic of it in the album.
The electric boat is next...
Seth
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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