EV Digest 2670
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Better range from less weight
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Hybrid Fuels
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Charger
by "Buford, Joseph E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Today's mystery question with electricity
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Better range from less weight
by "Johanna and Stan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: My First EV Frown
by John RA Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fridge Based energy sources
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Got the amps not the ???
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: My First EV Frown
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor, surprise!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor, surprise!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor, surprise!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Fridge based energy sources
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: My VW Pickup for sale is online
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Today's mystery question with electricity
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: more therapy and adaptor questions
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: ZAP RAP FEVER: page to sell or trade your EV
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Li-ion battery project
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Better range from less weight
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
No offense but LED lights will extend your range by about 10 feet,
hardly worth the extra expense.
Ditto the headlights, standard headlights use about 120 watts. For a
typical conversion this is about 1/2 mile range for one hour of use.
Xenons might get you an extra couple hundred yards.
FWIW: I use a total loss ancillary power system (no DC/DC) so these
ideas don't help range at all.
The rest are pretty good ideas.
>
> To get to a 70 mile range, I would suggest
>
> a) slow down
> b) LRR tires
> c) reduce the drag coefficient
> d) reduce the frontal area
> e) you could do lexan rear windows, if it is legal in your state
> f) lighter (cheap aftermarket) front fenders and hood
> g) LED marker/tail/turn/ stop lights
> h) xenon headlamps
> i) lighter lubricating oils
> j) removal of all sound deadening on the under floor, behind kick panels
> k) if you only use 2nd, 4th and reverse, then remove 1st, 3rd and 5th
> from the transmission.
> l) investigate a lower loss rear axle, I believe Solectria E-10s had a
> custom S-10 axle made, for example
> m) regen
> n) obtain a motor/controller efficiency map and use it to change your
> driving habits
> o) in lieu of regen, use an axle driven alternator to charge the 12V
> battery (like some stock cars) only when drive motor throttle input is
> zero, and throw out the DC/DC, supplement with a roof PV panel
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can run straight vegetable oil in Diesel engines with only minor
modifications. Emissions are roughly the same as LPG. This, in my
opinion, is a better option than bio-diesel since bio-diesel requires
more energy to make and uses some really nasty chemicals.
Of course bio-diesel has the advantage that it works at lower
temperatures. As the temperature approaches freezing straight veggy
gets difficult to use. Of course below freezing even bio-diesel is
tough to use.
On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 09:10, Sam Harper wrote:
> I know everyone here is pretty much against hybrid vehicles, but they
> may be the necessary stepping stone between fuel and electric. What
> type of fuels, besides unleaded gasoline, can be realistically used in
> a hybrid vehicle design? Range is a big consideration.
>
> Anything besides:
> -LPG
> -CNG
> -BioDiesel
> -Diesel
>
> -Sam Harper
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if this could be adapted for EV's?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2861987.stm
Joe Buford
310-416-9319
Boeing Satellite Systems
702 \O/
[XXXXX]-H-[XXXXX]
/0\ GEO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have all of my 12V electronics - blinkers, headlights etc.
hardwired to one of my batteries in my 36V 1960 electric shopper.
From the hardwire, it goes through a fuse box, with a 15amp fuse on
each seperate accessory. Everything works just fine aside from the
stereo.
The stereo goes through through the 15 amp fuse, and has two leads -
one that goes through a 5 amp fuse, and one that goes through a 1
amp fuse, on their way into the head unit. The problem seems to be
the 5 amp fuse (which also has a small capacitor and transformer) -
it keeps blowing as soon as I complete the circuit, no matter what
order i have tried. Does anyone have any idea what could be doing
this? It had worked just fine when connected in series over 2 6V
batteries (before I went from 24 to 36V) and has never worked since.
Thanks in advance,
Seth
Hi Seth,
I don't know all the details of your wiring, and that can make a big
difference, but I'll take a guess.
There is a danger to tapping battery packs that may have bit you here.
If the pack is opened in the wrong place, while there is a load
placed on the whole pack, it can put a large negative voltage on the
load which is tapped in the middle of the pack. (the stereo in this
case)
For instance, lets imagine you have it all set up for 36V with the
stereo running off the lower 12V. Let's also assume that the negative
cable has the stereo ground hooked to it somewhere. Since it's often
recommended, you disconnect the negative power terminal from the most
negative post on the pack before working on it.
Now, just to make things really bad, someone tries to drive the car
with the negative disconnected. But the stereo is still connected to
the negative cable, which is still connected to the drive system. The
load of trying to drive it is a very low resistance. Compared to the
stereo it's practically a short. Since the load is between the
negative cable and the 36V+ terminal, it's the equivalent to
connecting the stereo negative terminal to the 36V+ terminal of the
pack. But the positive terminal is still connected to the point 24V
below that. This puts negative 24V on the stereo which is likely to
damage it.
In the future, I would suggest putting a diode in series with the
stereo when hooking it to a tapped pack.
HTH,
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As for fiberglass bodies, they are somewhat lighter, one reason Corvette
used them. They are also more brittle, not so good in a crash. Fiberglass
does offer the advantage of style. However, making a car body is pretty
involved and requires a high level of experience and skill to do it
properly. But, you can buy one already made:
http://www.kitcar.com/fiberjet/home.html
These bolt onto existing carriages. No need to re-invent the process.
StanS
OhmsmobileII
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Better range from less weight
> On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 08:24, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > Pick-your-brains POST
> >
> > Range on lead-acid wet cell conversions is generally 50
> > miles (at 65mph), unless you improve the battery to
> > vehicle weight ratio (cut out the Detroit metal).
> >
> > How much weight can one strip from a conversion project?
> >
> > If the heavy metal body was lifted from the chassis
> > and a fiberglass body made, how much weight could be
> > saved and how much range could be added?
> >
>
> Not much. Durable fiberglass bodies weigh almost as much as steel. As
> a guess replacing the entire body with a similar fiberglass body would
> save maybe 200-300 lbs.
>
> > How hard it is to make a fiberglass body? Is there
> > a url showing how to do it?
>
> Tons of them. Glass over foam is probably the easiest way to build a
> one off body. Unfortunately getting it to look nice requires a lot of
> work and fiberglass filler. End result is almost as heavy as the
> original body.
> Some of the basics are covered here:
> http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.html
>
> >
> > How would one design a better aerodynamic fibergalss
> > body. Wind pusher trucks, SUVs, and vans lose range to
> > wind resistance.
>
> That is where you would get the best results. You want to keep the
> airflow laminar as long as possible. The easiest way to do this is to
> keep expanding the frontal area as you go back. In other words keep
> sloping the front of the vehicle as far back as possible. You want the
> slope to be fairly gentle with no major disruptions or changes in angle.
> This is why the "cab forward" design is becoming popular with the
> windshield sloped at almost the same angle as the hood.
> Once you hit maximum width/height you want to start sloping at at no
> more than 16 degrees. When you get to the back chop it off square at
> whatever width it is, don't use curves on the back corners and don't try
> to increase the angle beyond 16 degrees.
> >
> > If a person took an existing conversion and lighted
> > the vehicle, could they reach the 70 mile range
> > (at 65mph) mark?
> >
>
> It depends on how much you could lighten it. I think the aero
> improvements would help more though. Weight only matters when
> starting/stopping and climbing hills.
>
> > Is this too much work, or a project of deminising
> > returns?
>
> Depends. You could end up with a very cool looking vehicle with better
> aerodynamics and better range. Is this worth all of the extra work to
> you? If you build the body yourself cost will be around $1,000, give or
> take. Maybe $1,300-$1,400 if you used Kevlar instead of fiberglasss
> (save a bit of weight).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Next test, try isolating the motor/controller from the pack. Lee wrote
several years back about DC motors becoming large sources for ground faults
because of the copper oxide dust (forgive me if I misspeak, Lee - can't find
the post to quote from). In any case, I ended up putting a contactor that
disconnected the motor from the pack when the key switch is off, and the
ground fault problem disappeared.
JRAB
On 3/22/03 4:58 PM, "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, it was bound to happen sometime.
>
> It rained last Saturday and I drove the EVcort in it.
> Plugged it in that night and the GFI tripped on the charger.
> Switched charger down to 16A and it started up fine. Turned it back up to
> 30A later and it didn't trip then, either.
>
> But Wednesday night, after work, it tripped again. Even turned down to 16A.
> And it's been that way ever since.
>
> Since it IS a GFI, I start to look for a fault. Open battery boxes, clean
> dust off tops, examine all cables for abrasion at points of entry, etc. Put
> it up on ramps and look for possible points of water infiltration.
>
> Pulled off the blower and blew all the brush-dust out of the motor interior
>
> Put the meter between battery positive (@charger input) and ground (rear of
> the car) and it reads a very fleeting 1.0/1.8v immediately starting to fall
> and reaching 0 in about 30 seconds. It's like watching a capacitor, or
> something acting like one, discharge.
>
> When I do the same positive to ground at the main disconnect (front of the
> car) it does the same thing: initially 1.0/1.8v which immediately starts
> falling but never makes it to 0- it stops at around .0020v.
>
> Specs on the car: http://www.phoenixeaa.com/classifieds/010807/main.html
>
> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
>
> J. Marvin Campbell
> Culver City, CA
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Daniel J Rivest wrote:
> There was an invention that was being worked on at MIT called a
> Reverse Energy Flucuator and it worked by heating up diodes. When
> a semi conductor junction gets hot it puts out electricity. This
> is why a televisions puts out so much "white noise".
"Reverse Energy Flucuator"? That's a new one on me.
Any 2-metal junction is a thermocouple. When one side is hotter than the
other, it generates electricity. An ordinary silicon diode has two
metals (p-doped silicon and n-doped silicon), but the thermoelectric
voltage they produce is very small. And, they have the disadvantage of a
high voltage threshold between them (about 0.6v) before they conduct. So
I think they would be useless for such a device.
However, there are special types of diodes intended as signal
rectifiers; point-contact, germanium, tunnel diodes, back diodes, and
the like. It might be possible to get one of them hot enough to generate
enough thermal noise that its rectifying action could begin to convert
it into DC (before the junction was damaged by the heat).
More likely, I'll bet these researchers ran into a peculiar effect that
occurs in some silicon power rectifiers. They can become a microwave
oscillator when put in a resonant cavity and biased properly.
As for noise from rectifiers, yes that happens. They generate sharp
edges when they snap into and out of conduction. Random inductance and
capacitance in the wiring to their leads can accidentally magnify this
noise until it becomes troublesome. It's usually only a problem with
switching power supplies, with their fast diodes. It is also why you see
RC snubbers across these diodes in better-designed supplies.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> How about a bypass contactor?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Wouldn't that put over a thousand motor amps thru the motor?
> I'd probably need bigger cables. It would go faster though.
Once the motor is at a high enough rpm so the controller is no longer in
current limit, then shorting the controller with a bypass contactor is
perfectly safe for the controller and motor. The current is being
limited by the motor rpm.
What I think may be happening is that as you climb that hill, your
controller is getting hot, and reducing the motor current to protect
itself. The current allowed is too low for the motor to climb the hill
-- so you "stall" halfway up.
If you add a bypass contactor, then you can get whatever the batteries
can deliver, and that the motor will accept at its present rpm.
If you want to try a bypass contactor, be sure to include a motor
current meter, and a fuse or circuit breaker at some safe current, like
500 amps or less. Then you can watch the motor current, and the fuse or
circuit breaker will trip before anything bad happens.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin Campbell wrote:
>
> Well, it was bound to happen sometime.
>
> It rained last Saturday and I drove the EVcort in it.
> Plugged it in that night and the GFI tripped on the charger.
> Switched charger down to 16A and it started up fine. Turned it back up to
> 30A later and it didn't trip then, either.
>
> But Wednesday night, after work, it tripped again. Even turned down to 16A.
> And it's been that way ever since.
>
> Since it IS a GFI, I start to look for a fault. Open battery boxes, clean
> dust off tops, examine all cables for abrasion at points of entry, etc. Put
> it up on ramps and look for possible points of water infiltration.
>
> Pulled off the blower and blew all the brush-dust out of the motor interior
>
> Put the meter between battery positive (@charger input) and ground (rear of
> the car) and it reads a very fleeting 1.0/1.8v immediately starting to fall
> and reaching 0 in about 30 seconds. It's like watching a capacitor, or
> something acting like one, discharge.
>
> When I do the same positive to ground at the main disconnect (front of the
> car) it does the same thing: initially 1.0/1.8v which immediately starts
> falling but never makes it to 0- it stops at around .0020v.
>
> Specs on the car: http://www.phoenixeaa.com/classifieds/010807/main.html
>
> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
If you have an meter that can measure AC currents in the milliamp range,
you can measure the actual ground current in the AC ground wire. See if
it actually exceeds 5ma. If it doesn't, then the GFCI may be bad or
falsely tripping.
If it does, then, you can start cleaning, disconnecting, and
re-arranging things until you find the ground fault.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> If you revved the motor and slipped the clutch, would you have more
> torque that just taking off from 0 rpm?
No, because the controller is in current limit, and current=torque. The
controller isn't running any cooler, because it is still delivering the
same current. The motor itself might be happier because it now has some
rpm so its fan is working; but the clutch will soon burn up.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> garry wrote:
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
>
> >
> > The books you learn from and rely on are very good, but they are only as
> > accurate as their last update, which by your own admission (I think) was 150
> > years ago.
> >
> > Garry Stanley
> >
> > Cable.net.nz
>
> Umm so what's the point of this thread????
> And... what has the world learned new in motors and generators in 150
> years???
> Not much, we've just got better at buidling them. The same general rules
> apply. YOU CAN't get somthing from nothing.
>
> Why don't we get back to improving real motors, and helping fellow Evers
> to NOT slag down thier motors.
>
> %98 eff is NOT going to happen on a brushed motor, Well not one that
> would fit in a road going EV.
Portescap makes precision brushed motors that achieve this kind of
efficiency. But... they are wound with silver wire, have silver
commutators, ironless rotors, neodymium magnets, precision ball
bearings, etc.
They are absolutely incredible motors. I have one here about the size of
a 35mm film can. Rated at 24v 400ma, it draws 2ma no-load, and actually
runs at 0.1v. But you wouldn't want to know the cost of a big one --
this little one was over $100!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
garry wrote:
> I thought that removing back emf from a motor, would remove the
> magnetic resistance and the electrical resistance in a motor and
> it might be beneficial.
Garry, we seem to be providing a course on electric and magnetic
fundamentals via email. Oh well; maybe it's educational :-)
Magnetic resistance is called "reluctance". It is analogous to
resistance in an electric circuit. Copper wire has resistance; iron has
reluctance. In both cases, resistance (reluctance) cause a voltage drop
which means a loss of efficiency. So for high efficiency, we try to
build electric circuits with as low a resistance (and magnetic circuits
with as low a reluctance) as possible.
You lower reluctance the same way you lower resistance; by using the
best conductor you can find, and making it as short and thick as
possible. Lowering resistance has no effect on reluctance; and vice
versa. They are just determined mechanically; by your choice of
materials and how they are shaped.
> Thanx for the dump charger info that was something I was going to
> ask about when I get closer to having an actual road going EV.
It's an easy experiment; connect two batteries at different states of
charge with an ammeter. The current starts high, but rapidly falls to a
very low level. Over a period of days or weeks, the two batteries
g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y move to the same state of charge.
> My problem here is I speak moron, while everyone else here speaks
> technobabble ...no offence I just don't understand it any more than
> most seem to understand what I'm on about.
The english language is full of imprecise words; almost all of them have
many meanings. It in nearly impossible to state anything precisely in
colloquial english. So, scientific disciplines start by defining their
terms precisely -- so there can be no ambiguity in what we mean by
"volts", or "amps", or "ohms". Magnetics is the same way -- over the
last couple hundred years, researchers have precisely defined terms like
"mmf", "flux", and "reluctance". This allows to communicate and perform
meaningful experiments that others can duplicate and understand.
So, your first step is to figure out what the words mean. It's like
familiarizing yourself with the shapes of jigsaw puzzle pieces. Each
looks random and arbitrary at first. But then, you notice that this one
fits exactly with that one. Gradually, methodically, you put the puzzle
together. It may seem slow and tedious, but it is faster that pure trial
and error. With a complicated puzzle (like magnetics), there are so many
pieces that you'd never figure it out by trial and error!
> I suggested that a motor in motion produces current
No; motion produces voltage.
> and that the current produced resists the input current and reduces
> its ability to do work
No; any current in the winding produces flux in the magnetic core.
Whether this flux aids or opposes the flux depends on the direction of
the current in the winding.
> I further suggested that this generated current in a motor creates
> magnetic fields that resist the approach and attract the exiting
> rotor
No; here is how it works. You put power in, and get power out. PowerIn
is positive, because it is going in; PowerOut is therefore negative,
because it is coming out. Suppose we are putting electric power in
(motor operation). Power = emf x current, so for power to be positive,
emf (volts) and current (amps) have to both be positive, or both
negative.
PowerOut is (nearly) the same as PowerIn, but of opposite sign. PowerOut
is mmf x flux; so mmf and flux must have opposite signs. Remember that
emf = mmf, and current = flux. But one of these must have a negative
sign. To make PowerIn = - PowerOut, either
emf = -mmf and current = flux
or
emf = mmf and current = -flux
Engineers have (arbitrarily) decided to use the "right hand rule". It
says if you curl the fingers of your right hand and stick out your
thumb, your fingers point in the direction of positive current flow, and
your thumb points in the direction of the positive magnetic flux it
produces.
That means current = flux. Therefore, emf = -mmf. And (dramatic pause),
that also means -emf = mmf. The colloquial english way to say this is
that a positive mmf (positive magnetic field) creates a negative voltage
("BACK EMF") in the windings. I.e. it opposes the applied voltage.
I hope you can follow this. It is saying that for the device to work as
a useful motor, there HAS to be back emf. Perfect efficiency (PowerOut =
PowerIn) requires the back emf to EQUAL the applied voltage. Zero back
emf implies ZERO efficiency.
> I might have also suggested that both of these existing "flaws" if
> you like in an electric motor lead to heat which is the third enemy
> in a motor.
Again, back emf doesn't cause heat or losses, any more than a battery's
voltage causes losses. The battery's voltage and a motor's back emf is
the force that makes it work! The heat comes from the electrical
resistance, magnetic reluctance, and mechanical losses (friction, wind
resistance, etc.)
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> Have fun with him Rich. He doesn't understand how a motor works so
> naturally he thinks he can improve it. He thinks that Back EMF is a
> loss and won't believe me when I tell him it's not.
>
> Good luck, he is so fixated on his own theories that he won't listen to
> reason and he actually believes that physical laws don't apply to him.
Hey, be kind here! Haven't you ever believed something to be true, and
so argued vehemently and tenaciously for it? Once something gets in your
head, it's very difficult to get it out. It takes a lot of debate to
change a firmly held opinion in an adult's mind.
At first, you simply ignore any facts to the contrary. Then you begin to
hear them, but vigorously oppose every fact with a dozen of your own. If
these are gradually countered, one by one, eventually, you begin to
wonder if maybe you *are* missing something. Then you start actually
listening to the other side, and trying to fit these facts into your own
world view. Eventually, you discover that some of what you thought were
facts were wrong, and replace them with the new information. Only then
do you start to learn something new.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> Garry is not going to get his car built with you guys giving him
> Ideas like this.
No; but perhaps he will understand things better; and that will help him
in his experiments.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a beutiful EV . I can't belive your selling it for 7K . It should
sell fast. Why would anybody build one when there are such deals. How many
hours labor are into it ?. 400 (at 120minits per hour) . so lets see 12k
for parts + 8k labor 20 k ===7k/20k =.....when it sells we can clame the
EVPM (profit margin ) of .35
am I close?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: My VW Pickup for sale is online
> <http://paul-g.home.attbi.com/>
> Its a little web page my son whipped up to show my VW Pickup. It has
> current photos of the Pickup in running form instead of shots from
> right after it was painted that are in the EValbum.
>
> Neon
>
> P.S. - we are working on a more complete web page with pictures of
> both the Pickup and the Buggy
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sounds like the raido is burned out . try is out side the car with anothe
12v bat. Did you leave it hooked up while you were adding the other
battery. ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 5:48 PM
Subject: Today's mystery question with electricity
I have all of my 12V electronics - blinkers, headlights etc. hardwired to
one of my batteries in my 36V 1960 electric shopper. From the hardwire, it
goes through a fuse box, with a 15amp fuse on each seperate accessory.
Everything works just fine aside from the stereo.
The stereo goes through through the 15 amp fuse, and has two leads - one
that goes through a 5 amp fuse, and one that goes through a 1 amp fuse, on
their way into the head unit. The problem seems to be the 5 amp fuse (which
also has a small capacitor and transformer) - it keeps blowing as soon as I
complete the circuit, no matter what order i have tried. Does anyone have
any idea what could be doing this? It had worked just fine when connected in
series over 2 6V batteries (before I went from 24 to 36V) and has never
worked since.
Thanks in advance,
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for update on your project. With all the talk about bats ,controllers
, chargers ,the adaptor plates seem left behind. I wrote a while back about
me EV friend Tom who knew a retired machinists and I had him make the hub
for the Toyota torcell that I'm doing with Tom ( we are moving sloooow with
this project ) It looked good and I had him do the hub for Russ W up grade
(the slow 72v )and one for his friends car (another sloooow project that has
been sitting in my yard for almost a year) . Last week when I went for my
weekly visit (and we blew up another one of tom's home made chargers) I
heard the bad news. His friend the machinest had passed away. If Victor
gets the adaptor hub and plate problem covered I think this will be a big
plus for his ac drive . There was talk of a hub that could be used for many
different cars but haven't herd much lately. I will be very interested in
what you do as for me making the hub and adaptor plate is about 30% of the
conversion. I'm not real happy with the hubs I make on my raggedy old lathe
and it takes about a day to do just the hub(for me) . Have you though about
Videoing your conversion.? I would put it on my EVTV program if you did.
The hub will need to hold that polite bearing just like the gas motor did so
that your electric engine can hold the tranny shaft in the same place ( Just
a little joke for Hump who should be starting his project soon) .
Did you write about what you want the truck to do (performance) . ?
I like your enthusiasm hope it's spreads.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:22 PM
Subject: more therapy and adaptor questions
> Today a friend an I pulled out the engine and transmission out of my 99
> Toyota Tacoma extended cab donor truck ( I guess I can call it a glider
now
> :) ). What a great feeling!!
>
> I should say that this hasn't been without a few glitches. I waited to
> start ripping out stuff until I had received a signed title from the
> leasing company from which the guy that I bought it from was leasing
> it. Then I started gutting it. I had called the DMV info line and asked
> what was necessary to register a vehicle for non-operation. Should be no
> problem. Finally I got around to actually going to the DMV (California
> Dept. of Motor Vehicles) and doing the paperwork and paying my $880 in
> taxes (ouch). The the guy from the DMV told me "You'll have to get a
smog
> test before we can give you a clean title". Oh Shxt. I've already pulled
> out the gas tank, radiator, emmisions, ++. Fortunately I must have won
the
> lottery with DMV people, since when I explained that I was already ripping
> stuff out and working on converting it to electric, he just said "I've
> never had anybody that was doing that before" and then proceeded to tell
my
> how to do a deferred registration. It could have been real ugly, but I
was
> very fortunate. He could have required me to deliver a smog cert. and I'd
> have been putting it all back together. There were people at the DMV
> office that were there for the 4th time for stuff a lot less
> out-of-the-ordinary stuff than I had. I still have to deal with the
> emissions "referee" but I think that will be a case of proving the obvious
> fact that I no longer need to participate in the smog program, since I
> don't have an engine any more.
>
> Now I have several questions. When I pulled apart my bell housing+tranny,
> I found that my flywheel has in the center (actually as part of the flange
> that is part of the driveshaft) a pilot bearing that centers and supports
> the shaft from the transmission. Do I need to make that part of my
> coupling/adaptor plate? One of the motors I'm looking at is Victor's
5133,
> which has a outside-splined shaft. He offers an adaptor to convert that
> spline to a grooved-shaft. Do I need this? Even for any other type of
> motor, seems like if I can come up with a coupling that converts a splined
> shaft or whatever the motor has to the 10-bolt flange that the flywheel
> attaches to, and would hold a pilot bearing, then I'm good to go. But I
> haven't seen much in the reading I've done that mentions the pilot bearing
> or different shaft types.
>
> Any insight to what I should do here is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: ZAP RAP FEVER: page to sell or trade your EV
> I agree that there are too many 'EV trading POST'
> wannabee sites. There are 10 on the 'EVs for Sale'
> links on http://www.eaaev.org/eaaevsforsale.html
Hi Bruce
Maybe that's becuse your running all over the web tracking down all that EV
infor for us read( I don't know how you do it as just reading it is a lot
for me :-) . I mostly just look here at EV album cus thats were the action
is and when I give out a EV web site its always EValbum.com . I have all my
cars on a wannabee site www.grassrootsev.com as I don't want to hog up all
Mike's trading post with my stuff. What Mike has done is wonderful , He was
at the right place and the right time and now has the number one EV web site
this I don't think will change becuse of the wannabee's site's. I'd like to
see him make some money on it some how cus I know he must spend a lot of
time but he dosn't seem to care about making lots of money just promoting
EV's (maybe all you gas brunners could stick a "ELECTRIC" emblem on you cars
with wannabee or soontobe writen under it) .
> Many have the same ads on each one.
> This is not only more work for the person looking for
> an EV, it also is more work for the owners of the
> pages all having the same ads.
> But how are you going to tell the one site to stop
> being the redundancy department of redundancy?
> They all seem to think they can do it better or
> want to offer a service they do not know is already
> offered.
If there were different orginizations putting up charging sites here and
there would you have a problem with that? You could plug in or not that
would be up to you ? Yes haveing them all have the same plug would be good
but I can;t see telling sombody don't bother putting a plug out we already
have enough . And If sombody wants to charge to charge well good luck. I
might just pay if I needed to somtime..
> Some have no information, so have too much information,
> some have old ads that need to be taken down, and some
> show ads that are labeled 'sold' (who needs to know
> it was sold? The added images just slow the loading
> of the page).
Just like charging sites If they don;t work or blow out your charger you
won't go there again . I like the sold part as it shows that somthing did
sell , I kind of wish there was the price that it sold for just to say "see
what you missed" . Here's an idea for anyone with some time and can do this
kind of stuff. A web site of EV's that did sell .. with infor like cost to
build , sold price , how long to sell ,,and of course an EVPM no.
> But having just one site might not work either.
> How many ads are there?
> Too many for one webmaster? (people have lives too
> you know, and these pages are a free service).
>
> I suggest that North America have no more than four
> EV for Sale sites: West, East, Canada & northern states,
> and the southern sunbelt states. This would let people
> who want to buy an EV near them go to an EV for Sale
> site that is.
I do know what your saying as I'm kind of glad there is only one EV list
(don't tell me if there's another)
> It is my guess that really only two sites are needed:
> West and East coast.
> I would like to see some uniformity in the ads, and a
> way to allow for the seller's comments as well
> (I made the follwing ad up as an example):
>
> [image 250 x 250 pixel .jpg ]
> Model Sparrow
> Year 1998
> Miles 10,000
> Battery type, count and age: AGM 13 2years old
> Charger: PFC-20
> Tire type and age: came with EV, 4 years old, lots of tread.
> In running condition (Yes or No): Yes
> Price: $12,000 or BO
> Location (City and State): Houstan TX
> Contact: Luke Hazzard, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 713-530-9860
> Comments: I've enjoyed this but now I need to move.
> It has a nice radio/CD and a AVCON adaptor
> goes with the purchase. Body is in great shape
> except for minor scuff from an SUV fight. You
> come pick it up, or you ship it yourself.
> For more pic see my web site
> http://texmex.texasnet.net/greatev/
>
Looks like a 16k car 12/16 == EVPM = .75 yes that's looking better of
coruse it has to sell for 12k .
I think what is upsetting is a slick EV car dealer that know nothing about
EV's and out of there month comes misifrormation..
Just some thoughts
Steve Clunn
> But no one is going to following this. Its too organized,
> and no fun.
>
>
>
> -
> It's redundant to have yet another EV Tradin' Post, isn't it?
> Besides, I would rather have the details of who, where, and
> point of contact in regards to the vehicle and ownership,
> rather than just a dealer point of contact.
> Christian
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> EV List Editor & RE newswires
> (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
may i have one copy or an url site to download it ?
thanks,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:21 AM
Subject: Fw: Li-ion battery project
I recieved a power point file on lithium ion from Said Al-Hallaj head of the
Li ion project. I sent Rich Rudman a copy. Anyone else that wants one can
email me and I will send the file. It has some references to the AltraEV
and lots of graphs and diagrams. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Said Al-Hallaj
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Cc: Siddique Ali
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Li-ion battery project
Lawrence,
Thank you for your email. Please find attached a copy of my presentation at
a DOE meeting (hope it not too technical for your taste). We are currently
testing our prototypes on scooters and wheelchairs. We are very interested
in testing the prototype with EV or HEV but we lack the resources (mainly
financial) to go that way. We are identifying partners who could help us
achieve such a goal.
Our plan is to use commercial Li-ion batteries to build a battery pack with
a novel thermal management system using phase change material (PCM). It is
just like wax that will melt and prevent the battery temperature fro
exceeding safe limits. We have demonstrated successfully a bench scale
prototype and now we are moving towards commercialization.
Will keep you posted of our progress.
best regards,
Said
At 09:15 PM 3/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Yes. Please. I am an EV user and builder. I am only limited by my
batteries. Your project is of much interest to me and my associates. If
you could keep me informed I will pass it on to the EVlist. If you need
testbeds there are many that would be happy to cooperate. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Said Al-Hallaj
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Cc: Siddique Ali
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: Li-ion battery project
Hi!
One of my previous graduate students has sent me your email. I will be
glad to provide you with more information on our project if you wish so.
Please free to contact me directly.
best regards,
Said
Said Al-Hallaj, PhD
Research Associate Professor
Coordinator, Renewable Energy Programs
Department of Chemical and Environmental Engineering
Illinois Institute of Technology
T: 312-567-5118 F:312-567-6914
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iit.edu/~solarsign
http://www.iitcare.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Lithium ion project.
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:45:16 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
What kind of cycle life and size have you been able to produce? Will you
keep the size and weight of your batteries low profile like the
batteries in
the ev 1 and Ford Ranger. Delphi type. Under 8 inches high. What voltage
are the modules. If I had 800 pounds of lithium ion my electric vehicle
would be capable of over 200 miles range. Please keep me informed of
your
progress. If you need a test bed I have 4 electric vehicles that I would
make available to
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are driving a vehicle that has 360 watts of combined lamps at
night, with a DC-DC efficiency of 85% and an aux battery storage
efficiency of 90%, then that is 360/.85/.9 or 470 watts. That's 1-3
miles depending on your conversion, assuming you are travelling at 60
mph. If you are doing 30 mph, then the mileage figure doubles becasue
the time doubles. So if you can get half that back, then some might
consider it worth it. I would think it would be of some interest with a
total loss system as you can go longer with the standard battery or
reduce the mass of the battery.
So they aren't as effective as say LRR tires, but when you drive a more
efficient EV, like 140 watt-hours per mile, the savings show up more.
Certainly further down the list, but also easier to do, as LED stop/turn
lamp replacements are pretty available.
For more efficiency ideas, try here: (where I got the Xenon/LED idea)
http://www.vwvortex.com/news/04_02/04_17/page2.shtml
It is about the VW car that was aiming for 100km/ liter diesel
consumption. Something like 230mpg.
Seth
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> No offense but LED lights will extend your range by about 10 feet,
> hardly worth the extra expense.
>
> Ditto the headlights, standard headlights use about 120 watts. For a
> typical conversion this is about 1/2 mile range for one hour of use.
> Xenons might get you an extra couple hundred yards.
>
> FWIW: I use a total loss ancillary power system (no DC/DC) so these
> ideas don't help range at all.
>
> The rest are pretty good ideas.
>
> >
> > To get to a 70 mile range, I would suggest
> >
> > a) slow down
> > b) LRR tires
> > c) reduce the drag coefficient
> > d) reduce the frontal area
> > e) you could do lexan rear windows, if it is legal in your state
> > f) lighter (cheap aftermarket) front fenders and hood
> > g) LED marker/tail/turn/ stop lights
> > h) xenon headlamps
> > i) lighter lubricating oils
> > j) removal of all sound deadening on the under floor, behind kick panels
> > k) if you only use 2nd, 4th and reverse, then remove 1st, 3rd and 5th
> > from the transmission.
> > l) investigate a lower loss rear axle, I believe Solectria E-10s had a
> > custom S-10 axle made, for example
> > m) regen
> > n) obtain a motor/controller efficiency map and use it to change your
> > driving habits
> > o) in lieu of regen, use an axle driven alternator to charge the 12V
> > battery (like some stock cars) only when drive motor throttle input is
> > zero, and throw out the DC/DC, supplement with a roof PV panel
> >
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
