EV Digest 2673
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Tom and Ray on Hydrogen cars.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Tom and Ray on Hydrogen cars.
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVLN(EV component designers: 8bit 8MHz MCU)
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) OT - 8bit 8MHz MCU) for MARK
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: AC controllers/contactor controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AC controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Better range from less weight
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Don't tap the battery pack (was: Today's mystery question withelectricity)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) OT- Arthur C. Clarke Interview Broadcast on Web Today
by "Buford, Joseph E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Raptor or T REX for sale used
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Request for DCP DCDC working or not
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: AC controllers/contactor controller
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: AC controllers
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > By revving the motor and popping the clutch I probably caused a a big
spike
> > and fried the controller
slipping not popping :-) That is a nice EV , dosn't look like room for big
ass controller although the new Zilla is small. Who will be first . Man do
i want one . I am pine ing for two 9" and a big one , Just so I can get to
work on time. wish my old controller would blow.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This may seem contradictory, but one way to get more torque is to change
the motor. If you can get more torque per motor loop amp with a
different motor (9") then maybe the old controller might have taken you
up the hill. Something to think about as you replace the controller, anyways.
Seth
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> By revving the motor and popping the clutch I probably caused a a big spike
> and fried the controller. I was stalling the motor so I turned into a
> driveway but the damage was already done and it died right there. I backed
> down the hill and coasted home. It blew the KSI fuse. I replaced it but
> the car is still dead. Looks like I need another controller or a rebuild
> that would go to 500 amps. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/418.html
> Here is my car. Any of you Gurus like to comment on this 120v system and
> give some advice please on making it a more reliable vehicle in the go
> faster and last longer department. It has two strings now. I wouldn't mind
> having one string and going higher on voltage. As the batteries die ( Which
> Delphi seem to do. I could just take out the bad ones and lower the voltage
> slightly. It would however take a better controller. Also someone
> mentioned using a contactor to get full pack voltage for the hills.
> Lawrence Rhodes.......
> Lawrence Rhodes
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
>
> > I was think about this today . if you reved the motor and sliped the
> clutch
> > would you have more torque that just taking off from o rpm ( I know this
> > would keep the controller happy) . as the rpm climes I know there is less
> > torque . What I am wondering is if this type of motor reveing clutch
> > slipping makes any more toqure that what the motor is making to begin
> with.
> > Not counting the weight of the flywheel ect. I know it will make some
> heat.
> >
> > dam that clutch's save the controller's
> >
> > Steve Clunn
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> >
> >
> > > Stalling the motor for more than an instant is a very good way
> to
> > > fry a Curtis. It is also a good way to burn a commutator bar or two.
> > > Definitely a no-no in every respect.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> > > \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > =(___)=
> > > U
> > > Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
> > >
> > >
> >
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes posted:
An astoundingly clear-headed synopsis of the government-endorsed push
toward fuel cell vehicles, considering the "Tappet Bros." are deeply
entrenched in the ICE world:
> Dear Tom and Ray:
>
> President Bush talked about a "hydrogen car" in his State of
> the Union address. Is this a realistic possibility during the
> Bush administration? -- Jim
>
> Ray: Maybe during the Jenna Bush administration, Jim. The
> technology itself works, but people "in the know" say it's
> going to be at least 20 years before hydrogen-powered cars
> are viable on a large scale -- if then.
>
> Tom: The main problems are: (1) the fuel cell "stacks" are
> still incredibly expensive to build, (2) the range of the
> cars is insufficient and (3) there's no national
> infrastructure (like gas stations) to support hydrogen. So
> it's not going to happen anytime soon.
>
> Ray: So, why is the president talking about hydrogen-powered
> cars? Well, in my humble opinion, he's creating a distraction.
>
> Tom: I think so, too. You probably know that we now import
> boatloads of foreign oil every day. And almost everybody
> agrees that this is not a good thing (except for the
> countries that sell us the oil). So what do you do about it?
>
> Ray: Well, you can try to find more oil here at home, by
> drilling in Alaska's forests, for instance. Or you can force
> people to use less oil. The president knows that both of
> these options are pretty unpopular. So he's doing what any
> good politician would do: He's changing the subject.
>
> Tom: Here's another reason why he might want to distract us
> from thoughts of fuel economy and foreign oil. With no
> pressure on American car companies to increase gas mileage,
> the Japanese have taken a significant lead in the most
> important new propulsion technology in decades: hybrid
> engines. Hybrid engines use battery power some of the time
> and gasoline power at other times, and they never have to be
> plugged in. They're a great way to increase mileage without
> sacrificing power or convenience. And you're going to see
> Americans adopting them in big numbers over the next five to 10 years.
>
> Ray: Who makes the best-selling hybrid cars in America? Honda
> and Toyota. So, instead of urging America to make more
> fuel-efficient cars and cut down on foreign oil by raising
> the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, or urging U.S.
> manufacturers to catch up with the Japanese on hybrids --
> which would make a huge difference right away -- the
> president's talk about hydrogen cars is, essentially, the old
> "Hey, everybody, look over there!"
>
>
> � 2003 by Tom and Ray Magliozzi and Doug Berman Distributed
> by King Features Syndicate, Inc.
I gotta give these guys credit for open minds and a fully-functioning BS
detector. I wonder if they might be receptive to challenging the false
but widely held belief that EVs are impractical? Where are these guys
located? Is there anyone nearby who could loan them a nice conversion
EV for a week or so?
Wouldn't it be nice to hear these guys say something like:
----------
Tom: Thanks to loyal listener and electric vehicle owner John Q.
Lotsawatts, my electrically-challenged brother and I got to live with a
real electric car for a week. Let me tell you something, when those
automotive journalists tell you the engine in some new car is as smooth
as an electric motor, they no idea what they're talking about. Man!
Talk about eerily smooth and silent! This was no sports car, but I was
surprised by the acceleration too.
Ray: Yeah, and I have to admit I was more worried about the range than I
should have been. This car is a converted econobox, so it only has 40
miles of useful range. But you know what? I only drive maybe 20 miles
a day, and the car starts out fully charged every morning. This would
make a *great* second car.
----------
OK, maybe I'm dreaming. But it couldn't hurt to ask. Anyone know where
these guys are?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Tromley wrote:
OK, maybe I'm dreaming. But it couldn't hurt to ask. Anyone
> know where these guys are?
They are in Cambridge, MA which is near Boston. I once thought it would
be fun to have them do my annual state inspection (since no emissions,
basically certifying that the light work), but they don't do
inspections. I don't have the right vehicle (or Waylamd personality) to
go get their attention by leaving rubber on their sidewalk... if Jeremy
is still on the list, maybe his Optima-based fun car could pay a visit?
Or maybe someone has an EV1 hidden under their mattress that they could
show off?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try the flash Motorola MC68HC908 series using the P&E development system
"Multilink $160 (617)353-9206. I use the 908QY4 (16pin) and 908QT4's (8pin)
for most of my projects now for about a buck each with A/D converters and
high current outputs. The 908JL3 is good for more I/O 28 pin chip and if you
need more, the 908GP32 at 40 pins is a good choice. The P&E programmer,
programs all the chips but you need to put each 3M ZIF socket on a PC board
and wire to the multilink. For more bucks, the MON08 has all the sockets
ready.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: EVLN(EV component designers: 8bit 8MHz MCU)
> EVLN(EV component designers: 8bit 8MHz MCU)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> New 8-Bit OTP Microcontroller From Toshiba Controls Small
> Electric Home Appliances
>
> Compact 8MHz MCU Has Optimal Feature Set for
> Space-Constrained Designs
>
> SAN JOSE, Calif., Feb. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba America
> Electronic Components, Inc. (TAEC)* today announced the
> introduction of a new 8-bit microcontroller (MCU) that
> provides an optimal solution for system control of small
> electric home appliances. The chip integrates a
> high-performance 8-bit CPU core with on-board memory in a
> compact 20-pin Dual In-line Package (DIP) small enough for
> size-sensitive appliance designs. Samples are available now
> with volume production scheduled to start in March 2003.
>
> "Toshiba Corporation, a world leader in microcontrollers and
> non-volatile memory, is now enhancing its microcontroller
> product offering by introducing a new low-cost
> One-Time-Programmable (OTP) microcontroller that can operate
> at 8 megahertz (MHz). Toshiba continues to see growth in
> the low-end microcontroller market as 8-bit MCUs proliferate
> in high-volume, small electric home appliance applications,"
> said Farhad Mafie, vice president of the ASSP Business Unit
> at TAEC.
>
> The device comes in two versions: the TMP86P202P supports a
> ceramic or crystal resonator and the TMP86P203P supports a
> resistance-capacitance (RC) resonator. Each of these
> microcontrollers incorporates 2 Kbytes of OTP memory and 128
> bytes of Random Access Memory (RAM). Each MCU includes two
> channels of 8-bit timer/counter and four channels of 8-bit
> analog-to-digital (A/D) converter, ideally suited for
> control of small electric home appliances such as irons,
> crock pots and electric shavers.
>
> According to Don Schneider, business development manager of
> the ASSP Business Unit at TAEC, "The TMP86P202/3P MCUs are
> targeted at small appliance designs that require a minimal
> peripheral set that includes A/D converters in combination
> with quick production turn-around time and low cost."
>
> Key features of the MCU are as follows:
>
> -- High-speed operation of 8MHz at 4.5V is attained in the
> TMP86P202P by combining the Toshiba proprietary 8-bit
> microprocessor 870/C core with compact OTP. The result
> is a microcontroller ideal for small home appliances
> where high-speed is crucial.
>
> -- The TMP86P202P supports either a ceramic or crystal
> resonator while the TMP86P203P supports an external RC
> resonator. The latter version offers further system cost
> reductions for applications that do not require timer
> precision.
>
> -- Built-in OTP enables end product manufacturers to perform
> programming, thus contributing to faster timer-to-market.
> This feature also facilitates small-lot, diversified
> applications.
>
> -- Housed in a space-saving 20-pin DIP, the chip can be
> easily mounted on a user board.
>
> Development Background
> Toshiba developed the new 8-bit MCU in response to growing
> demand for low- cost, high-performance MCUs in the small
> home electric appliances market. Based on a high-performance
> 8-bit CPU core, the new device uses OTP as program Read Only
> Memory (ROM), which improves turnaround time from
> application development to product launch. Other
> distinguishing features include low price and compact size,
> which are attained by the optimization of functions.
>
> Pricing and Availability
> Samples of TMP86P202P and TMP86P203P are available now at
> $1.67 per piece in 100 piece quantities. Volume production
> is scheduled to begin in March 2003.
>
> Technical Specification Summary
> Part Number TMP86P202P and TMP86P203P
> Internal Bus 8-bit width
> Process 0.6-micron process technology with
> two-layer aluminum
> Power Supply 4.5V - 5.5V
>
> Maximum OperatingFrequency
> TMP86P202P: 8MHz
> TMP86P203P: 2.5MHz
>
> Resonator
> TMP86P202P: ceramic resonator or crystal resonator
> TMP86P203P: RC resonator
>
> Built-in ROM/RAM OTP: 2 Kbytes
> RAM: 128 bytes
> On-chip Peripherals 8-bit counter/timer: 2 channels
> Key-on wakeup: 4 channels
> LED driver: 2 pins
> A/D Converter 8-bit precision, 4 channels
> Tools Simulator, emulator and debugger
> Assembler and high-performance
> ANSI C-compiler with optimization
> Package 20-pin plastic DIP
>
> *About TAEC
> Combining quality and flexibility with design engineering
> expertise, TAEC brings a breadth of advanced,
> next-generation technologies to its customers. This broad
> offering includes semiconductors, flash memory-based storage
> solutions, optical communication devices, displays and
> rechargeable batteries for the computing, wireless,
> networking, automotive and digital consumer markets.
>
> TAEC is an independent operating company owned by Toshiba
> America, Inc., a subsidiary of Toshiba, the second largest
> semiconductor company worldwide in terms of global sales for
> the year 2001 according to Gartner/Dataquest's Worldwide
> Semiconductor Market Share Ranking. Toshiba is a world
> leader in high-technology products with more than 300 major
> subsidiaries and affiliates worldwide. For additional
> company and product information, please visit TAEC's website
> at chips.toshiba.com . For technical inquiries, please
> e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> All trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of
> their respective owners. SOURCE Toshiba America Electronic
> Components, Inc. CO: Toshiba America Electronic Components,
> Inc.; TAEC; Toshiba America, Inc. ST: California SU: PDT
> http://www.prnewswire.com 02/26/2003 09:30 EST
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Send me an email offlist, I have some questions about the QY4.
I plan on using it for a simple brush motor control, thought
you may have already wrote the code.
Thanks,
Rod
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 8:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EVLN(EV component designers: 8bit 8MHz MCU)
Try the flash Motorola MC68HC908 series using the P&E development system
"Multilink $160 (617)353-9206. I use the 908QY4 (16pin) and 908QT4's (8pin)
for most of my projects now for about a buck each with A/D converters and
high current outputs. The 908JL3 is good for more I/O 28 pin chip and if you
need more, the 908GP32 at 40 pins is a good choice. The P&E programmer,
programs all the chips but you need to put each 3M ZIF socket on a PC board
and wire to the multilink. For more bucks, the MON08 has all the sockets
ready.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: EVLN(EV component designers: 8bit 8MHz MCU)
> EVLN(EV component designers: 8bit 8MHz MCU)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> New 8-Bit OTP Microcontroller From Toshiba Controls Small
> Electric Home Appliances
>
> Compact 8MHz MCU Has Optimal Feature Set for
> Space-Constrained Designs
>
> SAN JOSE, Calif., Feb. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba America
> Electronic Components, Inc. (TAEC)* today announced the
> introduction of a new 8-bit microcontroller (MCU) that
> provides an optimal solution for system control of small
> electric home appliances. The chip integrates a
> high-performance 8-bit CPU core with on-board memory in a
> compact 20-pin Dual In-line Package (DIP) small enough for
> size-sensitive appliance designs. Samples are available now
> with volume production scheduled to start in March 2003.
>
> "Toshiba Corporation, a world leader in microcontrollers and
> non-volatile memory, is now enhancing its microcontroller
> product offering by introducing a new low-cost
> One-Time-Programmable (OTP) microcontroller that can operate
> at 8 megahertz (MHz). Toshiba continues to see growth in
> the low-end microcontroller market as 8-bit MCUs proliferate
> in high-volume, small electric home appliance applications,"
> said Farhad Mafie, vice president of the ASSP Business Unit
> at TAEC.
>
> The device comes in two versions: the TMP86P202P supports a
> ceramic or crystal resonator and the TMP86P203P supports a
> resistance-capacitance (RC) resonator. Each of these
> microcontrollers incorporates 2 Kbytes of OTP memory and 128
> bytes of Random Access Memory (RAM). Each MCU includes two
> channels of 8-bit timer/counter and four channels of 8-bit
> analog-to-digital (A/D) converter, ideally suited for
> control of small electric home appliances such as irons,
> crock pots and electric shavers.
>
> According to Don Schneider, business development manager of
> the ASSP Business Unit at TAEC, "The TMP86P202/3P MCUs are
> targeted at small appliance designs that require a minimal
> peripheral set that includes A/D converters in combination
> with quick production turn-around time and low cost."
>
> Key features of the MCU are as follows:
>
> -- High-speed operation of 8MHz at 4.5V is attained in the
> TMP86P202P by combining the Toshiba proprietary 8-bit
> microprocessor 870/C core with compact OTP. The result
> is a microcontroller ideal for small home appliances
> where high-speed is crucial.
>
> -- The TMP86P202P supports either a ceramic or crystal
> resonator while the TMP86P203P supports an external RC
> resonator. The latter version offers further system cost
> reductions for applications that do not require timer
> precision.
>
> -- Built-in OTP enables end product manufacturers to perform
> programming, thus contributing to faster timer-to-market.
> This feature also facilitates small-lot, diversified
> applications.
>
> -- Housed in a space-saving 20-pin DIP, the chip can be
> easily mounted on a user board.
>
> Development Background
> Toshiba developed the new 8-bit MCU in response to growing
> demand for low- cost, high-performance MCUs in the small
> home electric appliances market. Based on a high-performance
> 8-bit CPU core, the new device uses OTP as program Read Only
> Memory (ROM), which improves turnaround time from
> application development to product launch. Other
> distinguishing features include low price and compact size,
> which are attained by the optimization of functions.
>
> Pricing and Availability
> Samples of TMP86P202P and TMP86P203P are available now at
> $1.67 per piece in 100 piece quantities. Volume production
> is scheduled to begin in March 2003.
>
> Technical Specification Summary
> Part Number TMP86P202P and TMP86P203P
> Internal Bus 8-bit width
> Process 0.6-micron process technology with
> two-layer aluminum
> Power Supply 4.5V - 5.5V
>
> Maximum OperatingFrequency
> TMP86P202P: 8MHz
> TMP86P203P: 2.5MHz
>
> Resonator
> TMP86P202P: ceramic resonator or crystal resonator
> TMP86P203P: RC resonator
>
> Built-in ROM/RAM OTP: 2 Kbytes
> RAM: 128 bytes
> On-chip Peripherals 8-bit counter/timer: 2 channels
> Key-on wakeup: 4 channels
> LED driver: 2 pins
> A/D Converter 8-bit precision, 4 channels
> Tools Simulator, emulator and debugger
> Assembler and high-performance
> ANSI C-compiler with optimization
> Package 20-pin plastic DIP
>
> *About TAEC
> Combining quality and flexibility with design engineering
> expertise, TAEC brings a breadth of advanced,
> next-generation technologies to its customers. This broad
> offering includes semiconductors, flash memory-based storage
> solutions, optical communication devices, displays and
> rechargeable batteries for the computing, wireless,
> networking, automotive and digital consumer markets.
>
> TAEC is an independent operating company owned by Toshiba
> America, Inc., a subsidiary of Toshiba, the second largest
> semiconductor company worldwide in terms of global sales for
> the year 2001 according to Gartner/Dataquest's Worldwide
> Semiconductor Market Share Ranking. Toshiba is a world
> leader in high-technology products with more than 300 major
> subsidiaries and affiliates worldwide. For additional
> company and product information, please visit TAEC's website
> at chips.toshiba.com . For technical inquiries, please
> e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> All trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of
> their respective owners. SOURCE Toshiba America Electronic
> Components, Inc. CO: Toshiba America Electronic Components,
> Inc.; TAEC; Toshiba America, Inc. ST: California SU: PDT
> http://www.prnewswire.com 02/26/2003 09:30 EST
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I talked to a person that just put a motorcycle frontend on a golfcart and
put in 6 12v batteries and off it goes. No modifications to the contactor
controller. Hasn't burnt up the resistor. Seems to work. How can one get
away with this? Would field weakening be as effective and more efficient
for speed. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: AC controllers
> Been their done that. This idea dates back over 100 years and used to
> be how all EVs operate.
> The problem is you end up with discreet voltage steps instead of the
> smooth variability of a modern PWM controller. Add in the fact that
> high current contactors are very expensive (more expensive for the set
> than a PWM controller) and it's easy to see why almost nobody builds EVs
> that way anymore.
>
> FWIW they were still using this method in the '70s for golf carts and
> City/Commuta cars.
>
> It works fine on low power setups though.
>
> PS Contactor REGEN only works with PM motors and shunt/sep ex motors.
> Doesn't work worth beans with series wound motors. But then REGEN with
> series wound motors is tough to do any way.
>
> On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 20:57, Mark Thomasson wrote:
> > I invite everyone to comment on the following idea for a low tech method
of
> > controlling motor voltage, and thus vehicle speed. Instead of leaving
the
> > batteries in a monolithic lump and controlling motor voltage with a
> > sophisticated electronic device, lets use the fact that the battery bank
is
> > composed of smaller units that may be rearranged with contactors to get
> > various voltages. For example, with seven batteries in the bank, it is
> > possible to rearrange them to get seven voltage steps, from zero volts
to
> > the voltage of all the batteries in series. With 15 batteries, 15 steps
are
> > possible. The trick is to rearrange the batteries without using an
> > unreasonable number of contactors. See
> > http://www.geocities.com/thomassonmj/electric_drive.html for a diagram
of
> > how this may be done. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/439.html shows
the
> > test platform. I started small with a minibike and only 3 voltage steps
> > (using three 12 volt batteries) in the control system. The three relays
and
> > a multiposition switch comprising the control system cost less than $20.
> > Electro-mechanical relays are much easier to trouble shoot and repair
that
> > electronic FET's and integrated circuits, and more efficient. Solid
state
> > relays could also be used. Regenerative braking occurs automatically as
you
> > back off the throttle, or not at all if the throttle goes immediately to
> > zero.
> >
> > Criticize freely... I can take it!
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback.
> >
> > Mark Thomasson
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: AC controllers
> >
> >
> > > Hi Mark
> > ...................
> > >
> > > Tell us of your project? what do you want it to do?
> > >
> > ....................
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm. No, seems that all get used all the time. Unless I am missing
something. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: AC controllers
> Oops, forgot to mention.
> Contactor controllers normally rearrange the pack into series/parallel
> setups.
> IE. a 48V pack of 4 12V batteries will be arranged as all four in
> parallel for 12V, two sets of two for 24V and all together for 48V. Plus
> usually a starting resistor in series with the 12V setup. This gives
> four steps, plus stop.
>
> Tapping the pack at individual batteries like you suggest means that
> none of the batteries will be discharged to the same level. The first
> battery gets used all of the time and the one at the other end of the
> string hardly ever gets used.
>
> This causes the pack to become unbalanced(a bad thing). Your range will
> be limited by the first battery which will run out fairly quickly, while
> 1/2 the batteries are hardly discharged at all.
>
> Range from this setup will be about 1/4 the range of using all the
> batteries as one pack with a PWM controller or a series/parallel
> contactor controller.
>
> > > various voltages. For example, with seven batteries in the bank, it
is
> > > possible to rearrange them to get seven voltage steps, from zero volts
to
> > > the voltage of all the batteries in series. With 15 batteries, 15
steps are
> > > possible. The trick is to rearrange the batteries without using an
> > > unreasonable number of contactors. See
> > > http://www.geocities.com/thomassonmj/electric_drive.html for a
diagram of
> > > how this may be done. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/439.html shows
the
> > > test platform. I started small with a minibike and only 3 voltage
steps
> > > (using three 12 volt batteries) in the control system. The three
relays and
> > > a multiposition switch comprising the control system cost less than
$20.
> > > Electro-mechanical relays are much easier to trouble shoot and repair
that
> > > electronic FET's and integrated circuits, and more efficient. Solid
state
> > > relays could also be used. Regenerative braking occurs automatically
as you
> > > back off the throttle, or not at all if the throttle goes immediately
to
> > > zero.
> > >
> > > Criticize freely... I can take it!
> > >
> > > Thanks for your feedback.
> > >
> > > Mark Thomasson
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:59 PM
> > > Subject: Re: AC controllers
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Mark
> > > ...................
> > > >
> > > > Tell us of your project? what do you want it to do?
> > > >
> > > ....................
> > >
> > --
> > EVDL
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could the DCP run at 240v? Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
> If you could squeeze it in, a used DCP Raptor 1200 or one of Otmar's new
> Zilla-1000's would be rather nice. Even with say 400 amp limit on the
> batteries, could get 800+ motor amps on start up for the brief instant
> to get moving up a hill, and still have some headroom so not torturing
> the controller each time.
>
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > By revving the motor and popping the clutch I probably caused a a big
spike
> > and fried the controller. I was stalling the motor so I turned into a
> > driveway but the damage was already done and it died right there. I
backed
> > down the hill and coasted home. It blew the KSI fuse. I replaced it
but
> > the car is still dead. Looks like I need another controller or a
rebuild
> > that would go to 500 amps. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/418.html
> > Here is my car. Any of you Gurus like to comment on this 120v system
and
> > give some advice please on making it a more reliable vehicle in the go
> > faster and last longer department. It has two strings now. I wouldn't
mind
> > having one string and going higher on voltage. As the batteries die (
Which
> > Delphi seem to do. I could just take out the bad ones and lower the
voltage
> > slightly. It would however take a better controller. Also someone
> > mentioned using a contactor to get full pack voltage for the hills.
>
>
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S10
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Instead of stripping weight from a conversion project, you could pick a
donor that is
> already super light...read that Honda Insight (1847 lbs. without AC) or,
if you can even
> find one in clean shape, a good 'ol '72 Datsun 1200 sedan (1587 lbs.).
Both of these can
> hold quite a bit of battery weight, if suspension mods are done. Better
still though, use
> something besides lead acid batteries, since that is now an option.
If I could add my two cents I think the VW based cars are lighter but have a
tendancy to slide the front wheels when going down hills while braking with
over 600 pound packs and with the pack on the back wheels. I know I had
about 100 pounds less weight than the Blue Meanie(2250 with 15 Delphi 8v
batteries) with slightly more battery weight(630lb).. The bug did have
fiberglass parts. One could distribute the weight better by putting some
batteries in the gas tank area of the bug to keep the front wheels on the
ground. Not sure the stock drivetrain could take the pounding John gives
the Meanie. After a ride in the Meanie it just gets you thinking on how to
copy the performance. Just a thought as another way to go. Lots of VWs out
there as conversions and lots of donor vehicles... Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> > > If a person took an existing conversion and lightened the vehicle,
> > > could they reach the 70 mile range (at 65mph) mark?
>
> >From Lee Hart:
>
> > Since there are conversion EVs that have done it, of course it is
> > possible. The "Red Beastie" designed by John Wayland comes to mind. The
> > key is basically to get at least 50% of the total weight in batteries.
>
> Yes, using lead acid batteries, that 50% mark is the target. Red Beastie
had approx. 2500
> lbs. of lead on board and weighed approx. 5300 lbs. for a 47% battery
weight, and it could
> do 120 miles on an 80 degree day at 60-65 mph. Yes, that 120 miles
resulted in a 100%
> discharge, but 70 miles was a piece of cake. However....consider that the
same vehicle
> with just 850-900 lbs. of nickel zinc batteries could also do 120 mile per
charge...and,
> with this smaller sized pack tucked away between the frame rails, the bed
would be fully
> usable again! The truck would also be 1600-1700 lbs. lighter, so
acceleration, passing
> power, hill climbing ability, and fun factor would be dramatically
increased.
>
> > > Is this too much work, or a project of diminishing returns?
>
> I think that any money spent on dramatic fiberglass mods, besides ending
up looking awful,
> would be wasted in light of the same dollars spent on nickel zinc
batteries over a lead
> acid pack.
>
> Just my two cents worth.....
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
> Current project...'66 Datsun minitruck with Zilla 1K HV, four ADC motors,
sound system
> with V8 subwoofer and 800+ watts, and a planned 216V Nickel Zinc pack for
90-100 mile
> range.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a few 35 to 50 watt converters at Excess Solutions for 4 bucks each.
I am using two on my cart. One for the headlights and one for the running
lights and turnsignals. Cost = 8 bucks plus wiring. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Don't tap the battery pack (was: Today's mystery question
withelectricity)
> Hello to All,
>
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
>
> > At 06:48 PM 3/22/03, you wrote:
> > >I have all of my 12V electronics - blinkers, headlights etc. hardwired
to
> > >one of my batteries in my 36V 1960 electric shopper. From the hardwire,
it
> > >goes through a fuse box, with a 15amp fuse on each seperate accessory.
> > >Everything works just fine aside from the stereo.
> >
> > Tapping the pack is a BAD practice. Don't do this.
> >
> > I have some 200 watt DC-DC converters (somewhere) that will run
on
> > 36 volts. (Actually, I sold some of these to Rod Wilde. He might have a
few
> > left.) Use one or more of these instead of tapping the pack.
>
> Those would be the Microverter moduals. Bill was good enough to let 5 of
them come my way
> years ago. They are about the size of a deck of playing cards, 36V in,
12-15V adjustable
> out, at up to 17 amps! I use one adequately heat sinked, in the Heavy
Metal Garden
> Tractor, and it has performed flawlessly. I back it up with a 13 ahr
Hawker Genesis, and
> the combo of the 17 continuous amps from the DC-DC and the stout backup
juice from the
> Hawker, keeps my garden tractor's 144 watt (rms) stereo system rock'n
hard! I set it up,
> so that when the tractor is off, the DC-DC keeps the Hawker floating at
12.95V and the
> Emeter powered up at all times...when the ign. key is on, the output
voltage swings up to
> 14.3V.
>
> > I repeat: Tapping the pack is BAD practice. It is really tough
on
> > your batteries. One battery will not get enough charge and the others
will
> > be massively overcharged.
>
> Couldn't agree more.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From the Space.com website http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html
March 24
Arthur C. Clarke Interview Broadcast on Web Today
An interview with the reclusive Sir Arthur C. Clarke will be broadcast on the
Planetary Society's public radio show, Planetary Radio, Monday, March 24 at 8:30 p.m.
ET. The broadcast is available on the web at www.KUCI.org, and will be archived at the
Planetary Society's website.
In the interview, Sir Arthur discusses his new novel, "The Last Theorem," as well as
his thoughts on where to look for the next technological revolutions. Clarke will
reveal the origin of hobbits, as told to him by J.R.R. Tolkien himself, according to a
statement from the Planetary Society.
"One nice thing about the science fiction world: I don't recall any great enmity,
possibly because we were all a beleaguered minority and had to stand together," Sir
Arthur said.
Planetary Radio airs live on KUCI, 88.9 FM, the public radio station at the University
of California, Irvine. The program includes a Q&A segment for listener's questions
about the universe. The program also discusses space facts, trivia and things visible
in the night sky.
As may of us are (I belive) SF fans.
Joe Buford
310-416-9319
Boeing Satellite Systems
702 \O/
[XXXXX]-H-[XXXXX]
/0\ GEO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that the series field coils (4 pole motors) are normally wired as 2
paralleled circuits of 2 coils in series.
Using a set of contactors to rewire the field so that all 4 coils are in
series would make for a stronger field and more torque per amp of motor
current.
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Seth
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 5:39 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Sob... I think if fried my motor.
This may seem contradictory, but one way to get more torque is to change
the motor. If you can get more torque per motor loop amp with a
different motor (9") then maybe the old controller might have taken you
up the hill. Something to think about as you replace the controller,
anyways.
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a nice used 1221C that Steve in San Jose has offered to me but if
anyone is selling a more potent controller used please jump in. I would
like to go up in amps and voltage if possible A T REX looks like it could
handle 240v and still belt out a limited 500 amps easily. Anybody got that
or maybe a Raptor for sale used? Maybe a used Zilla. They seem to be
dependable. Lawrence Rhodes........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have the product (above), please contact me at
541.472.1115.
Thanks,
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As long as you don't use the first step for long you wont burn up the
resistor. It's a heat thing, he is generating twice the heat but as long
as he doesn't over use it the resistor can handle it for short periods.
He will probably burn up the contacts eventually, but what the hey....it
works now.
Field weakening is not a solution for efficiency. Field weakening
reduces motor efficiency because it reduces the torque per amp. The
motor spins faster but requires more current to produce the same
torque. Unfortunately it's not an equitable trade, the torque to RPM
trade off might be even, but you now draw more current for the same
power. IE: more power in, same power out equals lower efficiency.
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 07:39, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I talked to a person that just put a motorcycle frontend on a golfcart and
> put in 6 12v batteries and off it goes. No modifications to the contactor
> controller. Hasn't burnt up the resistor. Seems to work. How can one get
> away with this? Would field weakening be as effective and more efficient
> for speed. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: AC controllers
>
>
> > Been their done that. This idea dates back over 100 years and used to
> > be how all EVs operate.
> > The problem is you end up with discreet voltage steps instead of the
> > smooth variability of a modern PWM controller. Add in the fact that
> > high current contactors are very expensive (more expensive for the set
> > than a PWM controller) and it's easy to see why almost nobody builds EVs
> > that way anymore.
> >
> > FWIW they were still using this method in the '70s for golf carts and
> > City/Commuta cars.
> >
> > It works fine on low power setups though.
> >
> > PS Contactor REGEN only works with PM motors and shunt/sep ex motors.
> > Doesn't work worth beans with series wound motors. But then REGEN with
> > series wound motors is tough to do any way.
> >
> > On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 20:57, Mark Thomasson wrote:
> > > I invite everyone to comment on the following idea for a low tech method
> of
> > > controlling motor voltage, and thus vehicle speed. Instead of leaving
> the
> > > batteries in a monolithic lump and controlling motor voltage with a
> > > sophisticated electronic device, lets use the fact that the battery bank
> is
> > > composed of smaller units that may be rearranged with contactors to get
> > > various voltages. For example, with seven batteries in the bank, it is
> > > possible to rearrange them to get seven voltage steps, from zero volts
> to
> > > the voltage of all the batteries in series. With 15 batteries, 15 steps
> are
> > > possible. The trick is to rearrange the batteries without using an
> > > unreasonable number of contactors. See
> > > http://www.geocities.com/thomassonmj/electric_drive.html for a diagram
> of
> > > how this may be done. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/439.html shows
> the
> > > test platform. I started small with a minibike and only 3 voltage steps
> > > (using three 12 volt batteries) in the control system. The three relays
> and
> > > a multiposition switch comprising the control system cost less than $20.
> > > Electro-mechanical relays are much easier to trouble shoot and repair
> that
> > > electronic FET's and integrated circuits, and more efficient. Solid
> state
> > > relays could also be used. Regenerative braking occurs automatically as
> you
> > > back off the throttle, or not at all if the throttle goes immediately to
> > > zero.
> > >
> > > Criticize freely... I can take it!
> > >
> > > Thanks for your feedback.
> > >
> > > Mark Thomasson
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:59 PM
> > > Subject: Re: AC controllers
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Mark
> > > ...................
> > > >
> > > > Tell us of your project? what do you want it to do?
> > > >
> > > ....................
> > >
> > --
> > EVDL
> >
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He was talking about apping the pack at each battery to provide
different voltages.
For example with a 36V pack of 12V 60ah(at EV levels) batteries he would
tap it at 12V, 24V and 36V (he actuallly mentioned many more batteries)
So low speed woul only use the first battery, not the second and third.
Medium speed would use the first two batteries but not the last and high
speed would use all of the batteries.
So when you toddle around at low speed you are only drawing from one
battery. Lets say you pull 20 ah out. Then he goes up town at medium
speed using the first two batteries and pulls another 20 ah. The first
battery is now down 40ah, the second is down 20 ah and the third is
fully charged.
He comes back along the freeway using all batteries and draws another 20
ah. The first battery is down 60ah (it's dead), the second is down 40
ah, and the third is only down 20ah.
Now even though we have another 20 ah left in the second battery and 40
ah left in the third we can't use it because the first battery is dead.
In this example we could only access 2/3 of the battery packs capacity
and most of that was at low speed. The pack is now way out of balance
and you have to charge the batteries individually.
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 07:42, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Hmmm. No, seems that all get used all the time. Unless I am missing
> something. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: AC controllers
>
>
> > Oops, forgot to mention.
> > Contactor controllers normally rearrange the pack into series/parallel
> > setups.
> > IE. a 48V pack of 4 12V batteries will be arranged as all four in
> > parallel for 12V, two sets of two for 24V and all together for 48V. Plus
> > usually a starting resistor in series with the 12V setup. This gives
> > four steps, plus stop.
> >
> > Tapping the pack at individual batteries like you suggest means that
> > none of the batteries will be discharged to the same level. The first
> > battery gets used all of the time and the one at the other end of the
> > string hardly ever gets used.
> >
> > This causes the pack to become unbalanced(a bad thing). Your range will
> > be limited by the first battery which will run out fairly quickly, while
> > 1/2 the batteries are hardly discharged at all.
> >
> > Range from this setup will be about 1/4 the range of using all the
> > batteries as one pack with a PWM controller or a series/parallel
> > contactor controller.
> >
> > > > various voltages. For example, with seven batteries in the bank, it
> is
> > > > possible to rearrange them to get seven voltage steps, from zero volts
> to
> > > > the voltage of all the batteries in series. With 15 batteries, 15
> steps are
> > > > possible. The trick is to rearrange the batteries without using an
> > > > unreasonable number of contactors. See
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/thomassonmj/electric_drive.html for a
> diagram of
> > > > how this may be done. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/439.html shows
> the
> > > > test platform. I started small with a minibike and only 3 voltage
> steps
> > > > (using three 12 volt batteries) in the control system. The three
> relays and
> > > > a multiposition switch comprising the control system cost less than
> $20.
> > > > Electro-mechanical relays are much easier to trouble shoot and repair
> that
> > > > electronic FET's and integrated circuits, and more efficient. Solid
> state
> > > > relays could also be used. Regenerative braking occurs automatically
> as you
> > > > back off the throttle, or not at all if the throttle goes immediately
> to
> > > > zero.
> > > >
> > > > Criticize freely... I can take it!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your feedback.
> > > >
> > > > Mark Thomasson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:59 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: AC controllers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Mark
> > > > ...................
> > > > >
> > > > > Tell us of your project? what do you want it to do?
> > > > >
> > > > ....................
> > > >
> > > --
> > > EVDL
> > >
> > --
> > EVDL
> >
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
