EV Digest 2693
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) unsubscribe
by "Robert Butterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVs Cross the Bridge for Free?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVLN(State considers abandoning EVs for fuel vehicles)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Universal terminals
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Universal terminals
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) (OT but short) Making the degree sign
by Martin Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Universal terminals
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(State considers abandoning EVs for fuel vehicles)
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Universal Posts
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Universal Posts
by "Alan Shedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Henny Killowatt
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Universal Posts
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Magnecharger performance
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: smart charger options?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Th!nking in Phoenix AZ
by "Ed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Th!nking in Phoenix AZ
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Th!nking in Phoenix AZ (disregard)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Universal Posts
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Universal Posts
by "Richard Millhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Wind turbines in Iowa?
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Surplus EV Parts for Sale
by "tgleeman2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Surplus EV Parts for Sale
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Fw:OT Making the degree sign
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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unsubscribe
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Hello to All,
I sent the following as my response to a guy who seemed upset because his hybrid did
not
get the same 'free passage rights' across the Golden Gate Bridge, as an EV:
Subject:
Re: [honda-hybrid] GGBD
Date:
Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:48:31 +0000
From:
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
References:
Hello Hybrid fans,
jack wrote:
> The only car's that get across the bridge for free
> are electric. Bridge district board say electric do not use gas.
> What about the fact that in this area electric is produce by the use
> of oil.
That's not correct. Many of the Bay Area's cities and communities actually get clean
electricity from up here in the great Pacific Northwest, where we use massive
hydroelectric dams that are powered by the mighty Columbia River....zero oil used, zero
air pollution created, and so much electricity produced, that we sell the excess to you
guys. Some of the juice from California wind generators is accessed by Bay Area EVers
who
elect to pay extra for 'clean energy sources', too. I also know of several EVs in the
Bay
Area that get fully charged each day via a large solar array...again, zero air
pollution,
zero oil dependence. I'd like to see you tell these guys that their EVs are charged
from
the use of oil!
As far as petroleum fueled power plants, these produce far less pollution when they
provide juice for say, 100 hungry EVs, than 100 of the cleanest gas powered cars all
running around spewing exhaust pollutants into the air...this has been proven over and
over, study after study. So, even if an EV in your area gets its electricity from a
petroleum fired power generation plant, it uses that oil far more efficiently than any
gas
car, including any one of the current hybrids.
Our Honda Insights and Civic hybrids are great cars. The Insight makes better use of
gasoline, than any other car on the road. I agree, that Insights, Civic hybrids, and
Priuses go a long ways towards weaning our dependence on foreign oil, however, only an
EV
gives you the choice of running from clean power sources that produce zero air
pollution....wind, solar, geo thermal, tidal, hydro...these are all zero air pollution
power sources that the available factory hybrids can never take advantage of.
I still get a bit miffed when I peruse the various Insight and Civic Hybrid brochures I
have here. I see photos of the Insight in front of large electric generators or poised
at
a wind generator farm, as if the car could 'ever' take advantage of such wonderful and
clean power sources...give me a break! Honda has been a bit hypocritical here, as they
want folks to attach the goodness of EV stuff to the Insight (the power, cleanliness,
and
fun of electric propulsion), then they turn around and bash EVs, saying that the new
Honda
Civic hybrid 'is not a toaster' and 'you never have to plug it in'. Of course, they've
always said the same goofy things about the Insight, too. As I've said many times
before,
Honda's bashing of EVs and their constant negative spin on the wonderful ability to
plug a
car in (instead of driving to a gas station and paying the OPEC bandits), was such a
turn-off, it almost kept me from buying my Insight.
Just this weekend, I experienced first hand (once again) how the manufacturers of
today's
hybrids have convinced the buyers of their cars that having to plug a car in, is a
horrible hardship (what a bunch of BS). I was cruising back home in my electric Datsun,
freshly washed, buffed, and detailed as I rolled along Stark Street. I noticed that an
equally clean and shiny Toyota Prius was tracking behind me. I smiled at the thought
that
the driver and passenger were probably noticing my electric car with it's 'VOLTS'
license
plate and gleaming 'ELECTRIC' trunk emblem in clear sight. As we approached a light
that
had turned red, I moved to the next lane on my left, so that they would pull up right
next
to me. Both of my windows were open, as were theirs, as the weather was 70-ish and
sunny
this weekend. The driver was a silver haired lady with what was probably her 40-ish
daughter next to her.
Me..."Hey, nice hybrid! How do you like it?"
Prius driver..."Oh, I love it! It's wonderful."
I waited for comments about my EV....nothing.
Me...."You know, this is an electric car."
Prius driver..."Oh really?"
Me...."Yeah, I 'thought' you'd catch my VOLTS license plate and the ELECTRIC emblem on
the
back of my car."
Prius driver...(with a light hearted chuckle) "Oh, we're so busy gabbing with each
other,
we don't know what's going on around us."
I'm getting scared at the thought of such a clueless driver.....
Prius driver...(continues her comments) "Well, don't you have to plug it in?"
Me...."Yeah, it's wonderful! Because I can plug it in, it uses no gas at all, and it
makes no air pollution at all. Don't you have to go get gas to make your car run?"
Prius driver...(with a confused look on her face) "Well, yes, I do."
The light changes, we both take off, but we both miss the next light and are right
next to
each other again....
Me...."I also have a hybrid, a Honda Insight."
Prius passenger leans over and asks..."Do you have to plug it in?"
Me...."No, but I wish I could plug it in...it would be an even better car. It needs gas
like your car does...that's why it's at home and I'm driving my electric car."
The light changed to green, they went straight ahead, and I turned to go home. When I
got
there, it took me all of 10 seconds to plug my EV in (what a hardship), so that while I
ate my lunch, it was getting charged back up to full to be ready to take off on my next
errand....not a drop of gas or oil used, not a spec of air pollution created.
See Ya.....John Wayland
2000 Honda Insight
'72 Datsun 1200 EV conversion
'72 Datsun 1200 electric drag car
Classic '66 Datsun minitruck EV under construction
Cordless electric lawn mower
Electric garden tractor
Four electric scooters
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Dragan Stancevic wrote:
> The only reason the car companies trumpet fuel cell vehicles as
the way to go
> is because of the pressure of the oil companies. If we all
drove cars that
> can get "the juice" at home out of an outlet than we eliminate
one big money
> maker the oil industry. If we all drove fuel cell cars we would
still need to
> drive to the gas *akhem* hydrogen station. And guess who is
going to supply
> hydrogen for you car? You guessed it, the shells and the
chevrons.
And one big thing that drew me into EVs was getting that juice
out of the outlet, generated in any number of ways.
And while I'm still very interested in the hydrogen economy, I'm
not interested in driving my fuel cell EV (FCEV) on hydrogen
reformed from fossil fuels. And while I can perhaps understand a
transition needing hydrogen generated from gasoline or some such
for infrastructure reasons, unfortunately these kind of paradigms
have a way of lasting forever (witness the gasoline ICE and its
infrastructure). NOT ACCEPTABLE!!
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
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Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> Alan,
>
> All of the 22 US145s in my pack have the S post (aka
> the universal terminal - the post is round but the
> sides have been cut to have two flat surfaces 3/4
> of the post down, and there is a hole through the
> postthat runs from flat surface to flat surface)
According to the terminal chart in my U.S. Battery's Deep Cycle
World pamplet, which I received around 1994 if I recall correctly
(but post designations are pretty much as old as the sun), your
posts, Bruce, are indeed the dual purpose "S" terminal, but that
is different from what is called a universal post, which is an
offset round post with a threaded stud sticking up out of it.
(I will upload a jpeg scan I have from a couple of years ago of
this diagram. URL is
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/posts.jpg.)
I think Alan is indeed talking about the universal post (he
mentions "5/16 post"), and I was able to use two replacement
batteries in my old pack that had that post type (that pack was
an L or flag post pack). I did not have any problems with the
universal posts on these two batteries, although I kept a close
eye on them. Before I put them into the pack, I made certain the
top of the post that the threaded stud sticks up out of was as
flat as possible, ie. no little bumps or ridges. You don't want
to try to send hundreds of amps through a square millimeter of a
little bump, although it might just melt flat and be ok. I
tighten my connections during battery maintenance once a month.
With the universal posts, you have to be careful that the stud
does not eventually walk its way up out of the lead stump. With
this type post, you may be using a flexible cable, and if that
stud comes out, who knows where your cable end might go... (I
don't even want to think about it!)
That said, we have a North Bay member who just purchased a used
EV, with universal posts on top of US2200s, connected with rigid
copper straps. He was full of anticipation to take his new EV to
the meeting of the chapter, so he hopped in his EV to make the
eight-mile drive. He was doing fine till the last hill about two
miles from the meeting site. The car just stopped as he was
trying to make it up the hill. When we got the car towed back to
his place, after a few minutes I got tuned into a puddle of lead
adjacent to one of the posts. He attempted to unscrew the stud
nut on that post, and the stud came out of the post with the nut,
and the rest of the post fell apart almost all the way into the
battery. Show stopper! Lucky he didn't have a fire or somesuch,
although all the cases I've actually heard of for post
disintegration or the cable melting down through the top of the
case have resulted in at most a lot of smoke.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
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So, if Alan is getting universal posts which are round
like automotive posts, then Alan needs to make cables
that have automotive lugs?
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
"This list worked better for me than the one Martin Jackson posted. Most
(maybe all) of the characters displayed correctly on my PC with Windows
3.11 and Netscape 3.04."
Ah, ha. Your not using Telix to get your mail and List or Edit.com to
read your mail. While I have Win98, the (DOS 6) Edit program behaves
in a more comfortable manner, List allows saving threads sequentially
in a neat manner and Telix is faster loading and dialing the two
optional phone numbers and snatching my mail. MS Outlook is the most
screwed up program I have, Eudora takes forever to load and downloads
spam (Telix doesn't since I filter first), Word is pretty good, but
also loads slowly, and the server web mail program is retarded.
Also, the programs I have written are in DOS QB45 which is why I had
that silly (OT) parameter list. The DOS symbols allow very nice menus
and windows to be programmed that are faster at 8 MHz than Windows at
133 MHz.
My basic boot up screen is two windows emulating DOSSHELL with a (46)
program listing window on the left and a permanent directory window on
the right. The silly standard Windows 'desktop' with a pretty picture
and huge, uninformative icons is not too efficient. Windows presumes
to provide a 'folder' where it wants to file all my documents and
another to stash all my spreadsheets lumping motors together with
e-meter data and other stuff. Win98 is a pretty good DOS environment
if you can change the registry font definition.
I have never composed my own font, but it is straight forward in DOS.
I use 'deg.' rather than a symbol and restrain my line length to 73
col. for easy reading and quoting. I should use Eudora/Word for spell
checking, but my first shareware word processor does fairly well and
will reformat the valuable contributions of some List members with
uncontrolled line lengths. (This works in Word too, but it's
cumbersome.) I got Win95 on this computer which had a few annoying
problems. I had 3.1 on the previous computer, but it wasn't really
functional (for me) and it only had 3 megs. I don't really miss DOS.
I.E.5 was on a free CD and I really don't get off on trying unneeded
software. Actually, I had IE4 before bothering to connect to the web
with HTML. The thing with Apple; Since it is so 'easy' for some
people, when something goes wrong, it's abnormal and frightening. It's
normal in Windows and no biggie.
______________________________________________________________________
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It is apparently Trojan's newest "feature". It's a "feature" because it
has a spiffy name: "low profile terminal". Someone on the ElecTrak list
reports the amount of automotive type post that remains is not
sufficient to use. So far at least, I have not heard of other brands
doing this.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
The guy at the Golf cart store says that all of the golf carts just use
the 5/16 bolt for attaching cables anyway, so Trojan is cutting costs
and not supplying them with the full height terminals anymore.
Don't know if this is true or not, just repeating what he said.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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Joe Smalley wrote:
> I have an automated tester that controls these tests but I have to
> manually put the data into excel to see plots.
Joe, I seem to remember that a few weeks ago you offered to make the
plans for your tester available to somebody if they wanted to build one
of their own. Is that offer available to others? If so, can you give a
rough idea of what components are needed and how much it might cost
to build? I'd like to do some proper testing for the Sunrace team if it's
possible to do it on a low budget.
--
Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
LRW at clear.net.nz
"Do you like cat?"
"Yes, I quite like cats."
"Leg or breast?"
Neverwhere, by Neil Gaiman
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--- Begin Message ---
I was told at the EVAA Dec 02 convention that you get less energy out than
you put in by using electrolysis so it's not considered as a hydrogen
extraction process. The oil companies involved in the government fuel cell
grant want to use natural gas to convert to hydrogen (but you can just burn
that in a piston engine or hydrogen with less fuss/cost).
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(State considers abandoning EVs for fuel vehicles)
> That article talks about getting hydrogen from water by electrolysis.
> What is the amount of hydrogen that a reformer can extract from a
> kilogram of the following fuels:
> 1) Gasoline
> 2) LNG (liguid natural gas)
> 3) Propane
> 4) Ethanol
> 5) Methanol
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
> Visit www.juno.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for your comments on universal posts. The posts I have on the new batteries
are as Peter, Chuck, and Jim decribe - they are short lead stumps that look like
automotive posts with 5/16" threaded studs coming out of the top. These are what I
understand to be "universal" posts and are most common on golf carts.
The other (older) T-145s have the posts that Bruce talked about - round post with
flats on each side with a hole thru the center. I prefer these or the "L" posts that
US Battery uses that are actually rectangular bars roughly 3/8" thick , 1" wide, and
1" tall.
Based on Jim's comments about the low profile design, it sounds like I will have to
check to see if an automotive style terminal will provide sufficient contact.
-Alan
Technical Advisor to the Georgia EV Education Program
Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
(ph) 706-367-6194
(fx) 706-367-6139
(cell) 770-654-0027
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for your comments on universal posts. The posts I have on the new
batteries are as Peter, Chuck, and Jim describe - they are short lead stumps
that look like automotive posts with 5/16" threaded studs coming out of
the top. These are what I understand to be "universal" posts and are most
common on golf carts.
The other (older) T-145s in the original pack have the posts that Bruce
talked about - round
post with flats on each side with a hole thru the center. I prefer these or
the "L" posts that US Battery uses that are actually rectangular bars
roughly 3/8" thick , 1" wide, and 1" tall.
Based on Jim's comments about the low profile design, it sounds like I
will have to check to see if an automotive style terminal will provide
sufficient contact.
-Alan
Technical Advisor to the Georgia EV Education Program
Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
(ph) 706-367-6194
(fx) 706-367-6139
(cell) 770-654-0027
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
This wee beauty...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2409518820&cat
egory=6472
Just appeared on E-bay.
I am sorely tempted.
Now, My question is, does anyone have any experience with these? I know
finding spare parts will be a bugger, but I must admit, I think it is cool!!
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Don't you understand that we need to be childish in order to understand?
Only a child sees things with perfect clarity, because it hasn't developed
all those filters, which prevent us from seeing things that we don't expect
to see.-- Douglas Adams / Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency (1987)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Seth Dallob
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:13 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Morad 1500 scooter
That has been there for a while - i sold it.
After about 2 months, one of the chargers broke, and one of the LED's on the
fuel gauge went out.
I would recommend that you buy the EVT 168 over the MoRad - they look
identical, but the EVT has bigger batteries, and user reports of that
scooter seem to say that it is put together better.
Seth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: Morad 1500 scooter
> http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=441
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Two options Alan.
Best option, find a battery distributor/etc.nearby that can cast new
terminals for you. Ideally have them cast terminals exactly like your
old ones. From what I understand most of your larger distributors and
even some Golf Cart shops can do this.
The second option is not nearly as good and I only offer it because it's
better than trying to use the low profile terminals as is.
What I did was go down to Wal Mart and buy some terminal adapters.
These were just chunks of cast lead. The top is an automotive terminal,
below that is a molded in hex 'Nut". 1/2 way up through the center is
a threaded hole. Unfortunately on the ones I found this threaded hole
is 3/8" not 5/16". I didn't notice until after I tried tightening it
and stripped it out.
Anyway the terminal adapters were junk as is so I modified them. I cut
the 'Nut' portion off so all I had was an automotive terminal. I
carefully flattened and smoothed the bottom and then drilled a hole up
through the center and used an appropriate tap to thread it. I
tightened this up on the post and used a file to blend in the junction.
When I put cable on I made sure that the connector was as low down on
the terminal as possible so it had as much contact as possible with the
original 'stub'. I tightened the connector a bit tighter than normal in
order to get the lead to "flow" and hopefully get a bit of a pressure
weld. Seems to have worked at least a little since I can't unscrew it
now.
By having the connector down low only perhaps 1/2 the current flows up
through the jury-rigged terminal add on, and 1/2 through the bottom part
of the terminal.
I have checked the terminal after some hard pulls and I've never noticed
any abnormal heat build up, but then my max battery current is less than
300 amps these days (pack is getting old), so I'm only pulling 100-150
amps up through the top part of the terminal.
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 07:08, Alan Shedd wrote:
> Thanks for your comments on universal posts. The posts I have on the new
> batteries are as Peter, Chuck, and Jim describe - they are short lead stumps
> that look like automotive posts with 5/16" threaded studs coming out of
> the top. These are what I understand to be "universal" posts and are most
> common on golf carts.
>
> The other (older) T-145s in the original pack have the posts that Bruce
> talked about - round
> post with flats on each side with a hole thru the center. I prefer these or
> the "L" posts that US Battery uses that are actually rectangular bars
> roughly 3/8" thick , 1" wide, and 1" tall.
>
> Based on Jim's comments about the low profile design, it sounds like I
> will have to check to see if an automotive style terminal will provide
> sufficient contact.
>
> -Alan
>
> Technical Advisor to the Georgia EV Education Program
>
> Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
> (ph) 706-367-6194
> (fx) 706-367-6139
> (cell) 770-654-0027
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--
EVDL
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--- Begin Message ---
My Sparrow's been happy with buck-enhanced PFC-50 charging now.
Enabled me to drive from the SF Bay Area up to Sacramento for the CARB
hearings last week. Took about 1/2 the recharging time that the RAV4 EV
vehicles had to due to the Sparrow's smaller pack and the better efficiency
of PbA YT batteries (love fast charges and warm temps).
I've been getting consistantly 9.5kw dc output (50-54vdc at pack voltage)
from 208vac 40a connections and 10.5kw dc output (60-65vdc at pack voltage)
from 230-240vac 40a connections. Have to turn it down to about 7kw dc output
max when pulling through an Avcon connection.
Great product, Rich.
BR,
Ed Thorpe
Sparrow on charger steroids
-----Original Message-----
Rich Rudman wrote:
I just don't want to be outdone..
John Lussmyer's Sparrow just got a 58 amps at 180VDC Stuff charge, woke
them tired Yts right up.
5850 watts is just above where I set PFC20s to off of 240 VAC, 5Kw or
more.
Sparrows on PFC50s, Yea the way Evs are suppoesed be charged.
I got it here with a fill up at Rod's in Pt Towsend, and a fill up from
a nice luch shop in Pt. Ludlow. Esspresso plug ins do just fine with a
PFC20 on 240 VAC. a solid 20 amps in to the Yts.
Ok John Wayland I hear ya laughing... it's a old #20 Stocker... maybe I
should put a buck enhancer on it and screw it up to 30 amps.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> Four years is a long time for a battery to sit without being charged.
> The odds of getting full capacity is slim to none.
I agree; although if these are AGMs they might have held a charge for
the first year or three.
> You need loads that pull about 25 amps at pack voltage (for
> doing pack tests) and at the battery voltage (for doing individual
> batteries).
Yes; very handy things to have! Even if it is nothing but a coat hanger
in a bucket of water for your pack voltage, and a bunch of junkyard
headlights for your 12v load.
> You need a way of measuring voltage and current. An emeter with
> a serial port and plotting software on a PC works well.
An E-meter is ideal, but even cheap Radio Shack meters work.
> If you can program the PC to open and close relays to enable and
> disable the charger and load, it greatly reduces the human
> monitoring requirements.
Yes, and it can log your data, too. There is also the modified Rudman
Regulator circuit I posted a while back to make it operate the relay to
cycle batteries.
> You need to charge the batteries until they all reach at least
> 14 volts per 12 volt block and under 1 amp. First you do them as
> a group and then individually.
And, you will need to watch individual battery voltages. With an old
out-of-balance pack, some batteries will reach 14v well before others.
You don't want your charger to force high current into a battery that is
over 14v just because the rest of the batteries are only 12v.
> Then you need to discharge them as a group until the first battery goes
> under 10.5 volts.
>
> Repeat the previous two steps until improvement stalls.
Yes, though it may take a couple dozen cycles until there is "no"
improvement. You can instead just do 5-10 cycles, and then put the
batteries back in service, letting normal driving do further cycles.
Just drive very carefully and do not push the range during these
break-in cycles.
> If the same battery is stopping the discharge test every time,
> remove it and test the remaining batteries.
>
> If you have the time, you can test them individually. This takes
> longer but gives individual results for each battery. It is more
> thorough and is more easily automated.
>
> An example of bringing back an optima from the dead, look at
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/25%20cycles%20on%20YT%2019.xls
Joe, what version of Excel does this file use? It is gigantic (1.5 meg),
which takes forever to download via modem. And then, my Excel version
3.0 can't read it. Could you save it in an older format so it isn't so
big and can be read by more people? (i.e. me :-)
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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BORTEL wrote:
>
> * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
(You need to set your email software not to send HTML)
I believe you asked about ressurecting lead-acid batteries that have
been left dead for a long period of time.
When the resting voltage is less than 10v, they are comatose. It's going
to be quite a challenge to bring them back. Here's what I do.
First, put them on a normal charger and see what happens. If you're
lucky, it will draw a high current, the voltage will come up to 12-13v,
and they will recharge normally. The current will taper off as the
voltage comes up to 14-15v and the battery reaches full charge. They
will have reduced capacity for the first dozen cycles or so.
More likely, the voltage will immediate shoot up over 15v, and the
battery will draw neglible current. The battery is so dead that the
electrolyte is essentially pure water. Water is a terrible conductor, so
you can't get any charging current to flow. No current flow means it
*stays* dead.
In this case, connect it to a charger or power supply that exceeds 15v,
and put a light bulb or resistor in series that will limit the max
current if/when the battery reaches 12v to 1% to 2% of the battery's
amphour capacity. A car tail light is about right for a 50-100 amphour
battery. Monitor the current. It should start very low, but s-l-o-w-l-y
rise. If your batteries are really dead, it may take many DAYS for the
current to stop rising. If all goes well, the current will eventually
rise to the point where the battery "wakes up" and starts to respond
like a normal dead battery. Then you can remove the light bulb, and the
battery will draw a high current at 12-13v as described above.
If the voltage does not immediately shoot up over 15v and/or the battery
draws a high current which stays high, then you have a shorted cell. The
battery is shot.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Joe Smalley wrote:
> You can kill batteries in many ways:
>
> You can let a dead battery sit uncharged for many months.
> You can freeze a dead battery and break the case.
> You can drop a battery and break the case.
> You can pull too much current out of a battery and blow the intercell
> connectors.
> You can have a loose terminal heat up and melt a terminal.
> You can overdischarge a battery and reverse a cell.
> You can contaminate a flooded battery and short a cell.
> You can overcharge a battery causing it to dry out.
> You can undercharge a battery causing sulfation.
Good list, Joe. Here are a couple more.
- You can fail to add water as needed on a flooded battery.
- You can cook it to death from temperatures over 120 deg.F
And, of course, the *best* ways to kill a battery:
- You can cycle it to death from too many charge/discharge cycles.
- You can let it die gracefully of old age, after a long and
productive life.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Hello Mike
I was in Phoenix this past weekend participating with the Phoenix EAA
Chapter. We had over a dozen EVs at the Pavillions on Saturday.
Missed having you there with your '79 Jet ElectraVan.
I was back in the SF Bay Area (California) yesterday and in the
afternoon helped your niece replace the broken belt on her Sparrow
(Jennifer Radtke, Oakland). She's in the process of joining the EAA
and already promotes EVs with her purple Sparrow.
BR,
Ed Thorpe
East Bay EAA (http://geocities.com/ebeaa)
Sparrow (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/364.html)
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It was indeed a nice display we had at the Scottsdale Pavilions last
Saturday! I got caught up talking to a handful of old-school Phoenix
EVers, so I didn't get to meet very many out-of-towners. But the
presence was felt! Good to have everyone out there! I hope you enjoyed
the scenery at the fabulous weekly Scottsdale Pavilions car/bike show
and the amazing Phoenix, Arizona weather! ;)
Going back to the Th!nk topic from last week... Mike, the gentleman
you saw driving the Th!nk was a co-worker of mine. The company we work
for does some on-road testing of EVs, among many other things. The
vehicle does indeed still have CA plates, since that's precisly where
we obtained the vehicle. He was truck by your van... he had never seen
one before. But he was excited to see yet another EV on the road that
wasn't originating from our parking lot! ;)
If only it DID have the range to get out here from CA... ;)
mason
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
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Sorry, was ment to be a private message..
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I've seen new Trojan T-105s with the low profile post. They will not,
I repeat, will not fit automotive terminals. They're not "universal".
The only way to connect to them is with a lug or strap on the 5/16
inch stud.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: Universal Posts
>
> Thanks for your comments on universal posts. The posts I have on the new
batteries are as Peter, Chuck, and Jim decribe - they are short lead stumps
that look like automotive posts with 5/16" threaded studs coming out of the
top. These are what I understand to be "universal" posts and are most
common on golf carts.
>
> The other (older) T-145s have the posts that Bruce talked about - round
post with flats on each side with a hole thru the center. I prefer these or
the "L" posts that US Battery uses that are actually rectangular bars
roughly 3/8" thick , 1" wide, and 1" tall.
>
> Based on Jim's comments about the low profile design, it sounds like I
will have to check to see if an automotive style terminal will provide
sufficient contact.
>
> -Alan
>
> Technical Advisor to the Georgia EV Education Program
>
> Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
> (ph) 706-367-6194
> (fx) 706-367-6139
> (cell) 770-654-0027
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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In driving home to Houston from Phoenix, I happened to spot the Wind Farm
of Green Mountain Energy in West Texas. Thanks to deregulation, I buy my
power from them. So my batteries get charged with "American Electrons". I
was impressed to see that of well over a hundred Wind Turbines I could see
from I-10 that all were spinning. And this was with very light winds. I
will post pictures when my film is developed.
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Tom,
What is the name of the store?
----- Original Message -----
From: "tgleeman2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:33 PM
Subject: Surplus EV Parts for Sale
Hi EV Folks,
I found quite a few EV Warrior parts at my local electronic surplus parts
store today. They were brand new. Included in
the group were the complete battery holder/motor/cable assembly, not to
mention the headlight/controller/horn assembly. The store also had the
spring loaded controller pot/levers and mirrors for the electric bicycle.
Has anybody encountered any more new EV surplus out there?
Easy EV'ing.
Tom Gleeman
San Diego, CA
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On 29 Mar 2003 at 15:38, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Special ASCII symbols can be generated in common versions of Windows
> applications by activating the keyb ...
I hope this just an academic discussion. It's not entirely clear that it
is, so just in case:
Once again, this is NOT standard ascii. Not every computer speaks unicode.
Not everybody in the world uses Windows. People read this list on all kinds
of hardware and software. (For the record, though, I'm writing this on a
Win98 machine with a Unicode-friendly mail client.)
Call me stuffy, but one of the basic rules on this list has always been that
we post messages that anybody can read on any machine. Other stuff can be
posted on a web site or sent directly to anyone interested as a MIME
attachment.
One should not have to own a unicode-compatible computer, or a Windows
computer, or even an MSDOS computer, to read a message posted on the EV
list. Anything here should be readable on any computer including a 15 year
old Mac, a 20 year old Unix box with a Wyse WY-50 ascii terminal, an Apple
][e, or even a Commodore 64 -- whether people are actually using them at
this moment or not. (I'm not really going to suggest you should make your
posts suitable for 40 column screens, though. <g>)
OK, I'll shut up now.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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The last update for their "daily news" on the website was the 20th of March.
Doesn't look good. Maybe they're taking a few weeks off to conserve cash.
Let's hope so, anyway. It would just break my heart to see yet another EV
business ^almost^ make it.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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