EV Digest 2702
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Mechanical pulse width modulation
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Tango (was: Corbin Motors)
by Matthew Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Chabot College Magne Charger and ICS-200
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 2 controllers to 1 motor, or 0 controllers to 1 motor?
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Real Marketing Solutions
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Remote control for a PFC charger?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Kewet EV
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Real Marketing Solutions
by Andrew Wysotski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) SV: Kewet EV
by "Carl Anton Stenling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Marketing Mistakes / Sales Reps Welcomed
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Real Marketing Solutions
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
by "Carl Anton Stenling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Real Marketing Solutions
by Andrew Wysotski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Making the degree sign (please don't)
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Sam's club batteries
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 2 controllers to 1 motor, or 0 controllers to 1 motor?
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Remote control for a PFC charger?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EV Marketing Mistakes / Sales Reps Welcomed
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV Marketing Mistakes / Sales Reps Welcomed
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Back to Sparrow (Was: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow))
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
by Daniel J Rivest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I remember the article - a motor spun another motor's "guts" to vary
contact speed of its brushes, making a variable pulse speed - don't know how
it worked, though. I also read their articles on hydraulic transmission cars
and the 3VG, which would have made a great EV (it looked cooler than the
Sparrow, too). Stopped getting MEN when they became overly-advertised.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mechanical pulse width modulation
> I remember reading about such a contraption in an electric car 10 years
> ago or longer. Maybe it was in "Mother Earth News"
>
> Tom Shay
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like the Sparrow, but as a single seat vehicle it just wouldn't work
for me. It may have in the past, but most of my commuting these days
requires a passenger's seat for my daughter. It did have a "neat-o"
factor to it, but that wasn't enough to get me to choose it over my
Insight. Its too bad Corbin shut down, I was planning on paying them a
visit when I'll be in Daytona this June.
The two seat capacity and extreme performance of the Tango make it much
more appealing and applicable to my situation. The ability to carry my
little passenger is absolutely essential, and the Tango can do that.
I know the guys at Commuter Cars won't want to hear this, but what
would be absolutely perfect would be a double-wide 4 seat Tango. Some
performance would be lost in the added weight, but the added battery
capacity could increase the range as well. I know that's not likely to
happen any time soon, if at all given Commuter Car's philosophy on
traffic reduction, but it would be the 'perfect' production EV in my
opinion.
If the Tango ever gets into some kind of production, even as a kit, at
a reasonable price I'll seriously consider it. The current $80k price
tag is obviously well out of the average person's budget, but I'd
gladly finance $15k-$18k to get one. I would have only paid $8k-$9k
for the single seat Sparrow. A 4 seat Tango could get me to drop up to
$23k.
Just my thoughts/wishes for the Tango.
Later,
Matt
On Thursday, April 3, 2003, at 02:01 PM, David Roden (Akron OH USA)
wrote:
On 3 Apr 2003 at 11:25, Rich Rudman wrote:
WRONG!!! The concept was a single seater commuter car.
it's still as valid as it was.
I'm well aware of the advantages of a single-passenger vehicle. I'm
jsut
saying that there are significant DISadvantages. It's not suitable
for my
needs, and probably not for lots of people.
The Tango, with tandem seating for two, is a better concept overall,
much
more flexible and useful. So was Luciole, but that seems to have
vanished
without a trace. A pity.
--
Honda Insight '01 Monte Carlo Blue
Honda Valkyrie Interstate '99 Forest Green
Honda CR-V '98 Jet Black
Apple Dual 1GHz PowerMac G4
Apple iBook 12.1" 800MHz
Kyocera 7135 Smartphone on Verizon
Custom Audio Adapters! Use standard stereo headphones on your 7135!
<http://www.geocities.com/nokmout/adapter.html>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The only thing wrong with a Tango is when it meets up with a
> monster SUV.
It should fare a lot better than you think! :-)
The Tango weighs over 3000 lbs -- that's a lot more than any small car.
It is very tall; the SUV isn't going to ride over its bumpers. It also
has a full roll cage and race car grade seats.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A data point: The KillaCycle uses about 700 W-hr on a run down the strip
and back on the return road. It does not draw much on the 1/2 mile return
road going 20 MPH, but I'm not sure exactly how much. I'd guess 150 W-hrs.
This leaves about 500 to 600 W-hrs for the 1/4 mile run itself.
The peak HP is a bit less than 300.
Super caps that I have evaluated on paper have no trouble putting out 300
HP, but have difficulty with the required 700 W-hr.
We shall see how the latest generation of super caps pans out. Who knows
until they try it.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't try to use them but one of them was talking. No kidding. I saw no
lights. I talked to Rob the maintance guy and he said I could use the 110
outlet just to the right of the EV charging station. It is about a foot or
so in from the corner of the building and the fence. I think I can get my
hand in there. The outlet has a clear plastic hinged cover. Better than
nothing. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: Chabot College Magne Charger and ICS-200
> Lawrence,
>
> The EAA sells an adapter box for allowing Avcon to 220vac output. There is
> no neutral, so you cannot pull 110vac off of this connection.
>
> BTW - for charging locations, best to look at evchargernews. The link for
> Bay Area charging is:
> http://evchargernews.home.attbi.com/ch-bay-all.htm
>
> Side note to Lawrence: did they reset the Avcon ICS-200 charger? It
alarmed
> when I tried charging las Tues, Mar 25 and as of this past Monday was
still
> out of operations. Is the red light still on? Need to get an update for
the
> charger website...
>
> BR, fellow public charger,
> Ed Thorpe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:17 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Chabot College Magne Charger and ICS-200
>
>
> Well I was suprised to see a big paddle Magne Charger and an ICS-200 (side
> by side with two parking spaces) with a fist looking like connector at the
> vehice maintance center next to the performing arts building. Didn't
> someone sell adapters to allow 110 & 220 users to use these devices?
> Lawrence Rhodes...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Assuming that the extra 12v does not put the controller over its maximum
> voltage, it will work. The contacts of this extra 12v contactor will arc
> a bit, so I'd let up the throttle before switching it. It will also have
> to be a SPDT contactor; common to controller B+, normally-closed to your
> present pack voltage, and normally-open to the pack plus the extra 12v.
There is a forward-reverse contactor turned on by the key *plus* a contactor
that comes on when the accelerator is pressed - here is my "before and
after" plan:
Regular: Fwd contactor--SPST pedal contactor--controller--motor
Bypass: Fwd contactor--SPST bypass contactor--extra 12V battery--motor
This would require removing my foot from the accelerator before pressing the
bypass button, and when done with the higher speed, I would leave both
contactors open until speed dropped to the "48V max". The Curtis probably
doesn't have the "headroom" to handle a full 60V, so it's important to know
if there is a minimum amount of time before an unpowered motor circuit will
"lose" its voltage (?).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> L8r
> Ryan ( my sincerest appologies to the list )
>
> PS. Andrew! No need to reply to this message, I know you have none of
> the answers.
>
...but he does have all the domains! I guess that's ONE way to make some
money off of EV sales...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
>
> One of the thought processes I've had going in background mode is
> where to do a permanent install of a PFC-20 (or better yet, a
> PFC-50 ;-)) in the ol' Yellow Banana (Rabbit). The PFC-20 is
> probably handle-able without too much sweat, but the PFC-50 is
> another story. After looking at Bruce's beautiful BIG PFC-50 a
> few weeks ago, it doesn't look easy. Inside the passenger
> compartment, which I'd prefer to avoid, perhaps the charger could
> be bolted to the floor underneath one of the seats, although I
> suspect vertical clearance would kill this idea. Footrest in a
> box - perhaps - knees high for rear passengers, and
> tripping/kicking potential. If I could get the airconditioning
> box out from in front of the stick shift, maybe a PFC-20 on the
> tunnel would work, but the PFC-50 seems too long. So I keep
> coming back to the idea of putting the charger underneath the
> car, mounted in the hole underneath the rear seat where the gas
> tank came out. Even though that area is covered by a bellypan
> (and the bellypan is not guaranteed to be in place), I'd still
> have to put the charger in some kind of protective box with
> ventilation fans (how many pounds are we adding?). As the
> charger would be inaccessible, I would have to have some way of
> monitoring and controlling it remotely, perhaps with wire leads
> leading up to where I normally charge at with the Zivan. Anyone
> done anything like this, and would Rich have a hissy-fit knowing
> that this kind of setup existed? I remember the discussion of
> stuffing a PFC under the "hood" of a Sparrow, which was pretty
> radical. After the PFC install, I'd have to deal with the Avcon
> inlet install (I think I got that one figured), before I could
> come up to the level of Bruce's ampabouts.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
Hissy Fit??? ummm no, how about directions???
We have a remote, but it's kinda crude, and works with our bench gear.
We have a remote port on the PFC control PCBs, and have had for a couple
of dozzen units.
Joe buildt one for the Windloader, and it works but is noise sensitive,
and tracks your hand as you get close to it. NOT ready for the big time,
but some shielding and more caps and it should work. You will need to
poke some holes in the green paint. Oh that's MY job... No clue to the
cost, it's simple and is where we hope to land some micro brains this
year.
Doing a analog one with a digi pot for volts and knob for amps, is a
$100 solution even with a enclosure.
I have one, I can show you what it is, and how to wire it, but hey it's
not factory backed yet with pretty green paint.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Apr 2003 at 14:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I don't think there's been any EVs developed nor manufactured in Finland.
AC Electric Vehicles has built some prototypes.
Elcat converts small Subaru vans, has been doing so for probably 10 years or
more. Most sales are to institutions and government agencies, including the
Finnish post.
The earlier Finnvan was a purpose-built EV developed for the Finnish post, in
the late 70s or early 80s as I recall. It's been superseded by the Elcat vans.
In 1996 I saw a retired orange Finnvan on display in the basement of the main
post office in Helsinki. There's no question that it had seen real daily use -- it
was rather worn, rough-looking even.
I think Finland may be the coldest place in which EVs are in regular use.
Most run lead batteries in well-insulated, heated boxes.
David Roden
Akron OH USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:14 PM 4/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>> L8r
>> Ryan ( my sincerest appologies to the list )
>>
>> PS. Andrew! No need to reply to this message, I know you have none of
>> the answers.
What's with the ill will in this list - jealousy? That's all I can figure. I'm
providing useful information and a service that one company can make use of our not.
No different than an ad agency operating within the chain.
Looking back at Peter Der.. posts I see a plug for godaddy.com and then I don't have
to go back much further and I see another commercial plug for All State Insurance by
him. Yet he criticizes me for discussing EV marketing from my point of view. It's
only what the EV industry needs most and what I understand and have to offer most.
Keep selling scooter parts amongst yourself, I'll be unsubscribed very soon.
Best wishes
Andrew
>>
>
>...but he does have all the domains! I guess that's ONE way to make some
>money off of EV sales...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Carmen Farruggia wrote:
> Has anyone heard of the Kewet EV from Finland?
Yes. I drive a Kewet El-Jet model 5 every day. Kewet has this web site:
www.kewet.com (Norwegian text) I bought my Kewet in 1998, and has been
very pleased with it.
The car is now (since 2000) manufactured on a small flexible assembly
line in Norway, but was originally designed in Denmark.
As far as I know, the Kewet and the Think vehicles are unrelated - apart
from both being manufactured in Norway.
(There is an unrelated EV manufacturer in Finland called Elcat - see
www.elcat.fi (Finnish text).)
> Any idea on range and speed?
Top speed is approx. 80 km/h and range 50-100 km. The maximum range I
have achieved with my lead acid Kewet 5 is 110 km.
The car is available in two versions: Lead acid and NiCd
Previous models of the Kewet had different configurations of batteries,
transmissions and motors. Basically the lower model numbers were slow
moving/short range vehicles, while the model 5 is able to follow normal
city traffic patterns. The current model is the result of years of
refinement.
> It looks like a comutacar or citikar.
It is essentially a city EV. It is highway capable (in the EU), but not
suitable for long high speed commutes.
Carl Anton Stenling, Oslo, Norway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon wrote:
> NEW TOPIC - who has advice on who I should register my domain name
> with. I would like to hear from individuals as businesses on who they
> use and why. Price is important, but also a reliable redirect service
> and as customer support rate with me too. Feel free to respond
> offlist to me if you prefer. Thanx!
I use Register.com for the EVA/DC and Power of DC sites. It's expensive at
$35.00 per year, but RELIABLE. I use Name2Host.com for hosting which is also
very reliable. Name2Host was Mason Convey's suggestion when I was looking
for web hosting. No problems with either one and they give you ample notice
when its time to renew.
Be very weary of places that offer very cheap rates or fly-by-night outfits.
They may be here one day and gone the next and it will be hell attempting to
transfer your domain name to another registrar.
This happened to me two years ago where I found a cheap place to host a site
and register the domain name. A place called CheapHostSpace.com aka
CheapSkate.com. Their servers consistently went down for days and their
customer support became non-existent. Then they reorganized and tried to
extort money from its customers by charging new monthly fees. If you didn't
pay, they closed your site and threatened to keep your domain name, which
I'm sure was not legal. I had to do some sleuthing to find out who the
actual registrar was for my domain name then convince them it was mine. I
found out Enom was the registrar. What a nightmare. Eventually, a lawyer
stepped in and told CheapHostSpace they had to tell their customers who the
registrar was so they could transfer their domain names somewhere else.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Power of DC Chairman/Webmaster
http://www.powerofdc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because the list charter specifically prohibits advertising your wares
on the list.
This is different that recommending services that I have no vested
interest in.
This list is about discussing EVs not about your marketing schemes.
Take them elsewhere.
You have done nothing to discuss EVs. All you have done is pump us for
contact information for different manufacturers, and advertise.
If you want to discuss EVs; great, stick around. Otherwise get lost.
On Fri, 2003-04-04 at 00:50, Andrew Wysotski wrote:
> At 10:14 PM 4/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >> L8r
> >> Ryan ( my sincerest appologies to the list )
> >>
> >> PS. Andrew! No need to reply to this message, I know you have none of
> >> the answers.
>
> What's with the ill will in this list - jealousy? That's all I can figure. I'm
> providing useful information and a service that one company can make use of our not.
> No different than an ad agency operating within the chain.
>
> Looking back at Peter Der.. posts I see a plug for godaddy.com and then I don't
> have to go back much further and I see another commercial plug for All State
> Insurance by him. Yet he criticizes me for discussing EV marketing from my point of
> view. It's only what the EV industry needs most and what I understand and have to
> offer most.
>
> Keep selling scooter parts amongst yourself, I'll be unsubscribed very soon.
> Best wishes
> Andrew
>
> >>
> >
> >...but he does have all the domains! I guess that's ONE way to make some
> >money off of EV sales...
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a comparison:
One Kewet driver in Norway experienced a front-to-front crash with a
large truck. It appears that the truck more or less drove straight over
the Kewet with minimal damage to the structure. The driver only received
minor injuries to a leg. (He did not use a seat belt...)
A properly designed space frame structure is probably quite safe
compared to mass produced ICE vehicles.
Carl Anton Stenling, Oslo, Norway
Kewet BEV owner since 1998
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are grey areas too, no need to be a rude jerk about it. I think rude people
should get lost. (especially when they get off track themselves).
At 01:38 AM 4/4/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Because the list charter specifically prohibits advertising your wares
>on the list.
>
>This is different that recommending services that I have no vested
>interest in.
>
>This list is about discussing EVs not about your marketing schemes.
>Take them elsewhere.
>
>You have done nothing to discuss EVs. All you have done is pump us for
>contact information for different manufacturers, and advertise.
>
>If you want to discuss EVs; great, stick around. Otherwise get lost.
>
>On Fri, 2003-04-04 at 00:50, Andrew Wysotski wrote:
>> At 10:14 PM 4/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>> >> L8r
>> >> Ryan ( my sincerest appologies to the list )
>> >>
>> >> PS. Andrew! No need to reply to this message, I know you have none of
>> >> the answers.
>>
>> What's with the ill will in this list - jealousy? That's all I can figure. I'm
>> providing useful information and a service that one company can make use of our
>> not. No different than an ad agency operating within the chain.
>>
>> Looking back at Peter Der.. posts I see a plug for godaddy.com and then I don't
>> have to go back much further and I see another commercial plug for All State
>> Insurance by him. Yet he criticizes me for discussing EV marketing from my point
>> of view. It's only what the EV industry needs most and what I understand and have
>> to offer most.
>>
>> Keep selling scooter parts amongst yourself, I'll be unsubscribed very soon.
>> Best wishes
>> Andrew
>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >...but he does have all the domains! I guess that's ONE way to make some
>> >money off of EV sales...
>>
>--
>EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
> >Even then, people using British-English should avoid using the pound
> >symbol (currency) because American-English sees it as a hash mark (also
> >called a "pound" sign by some).
>
> Hmm. Must be a Windows issue. � sign works fine for me under MacOS.
Replying privately, this must be getting boring for everyone else. (short
answer is, it's an ASCII issue)
ObEV: the Electric Mazda 323 is now in my possession, I need to stop
prattling on about ASCII codes and put it in the EV Album. Maybe
tomorrow...
--
Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
LRW at clear.net.nz
"Do you like cat?"
"Yes, I quite like cats."
"Leg or breast?"
Neverwhere, by Neil Gaiman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, at 4-5 watt hours per kilo, that means at least 300 lbs of caps for
the energy. My point about ESR is that an "average" supahcahp (Say it
like Ted Kennedy) has no energy storage to speak of and as much
resistance as batteries, or more. Fully charged, they look like 1
milliohm per 2.5 volts, or about 5 milliohms per 12V. But it only gets
worse from there as they discharge. Only when the ESR gets really low
(at current gravimetric energy density) are they better than a battery
like a Hawker. IMO
Someone posted Nissan getting a 6.something watt-hour per kg capacitor
with a gore-tex contstruction, so hopefully 10Wh/kg will be here soon.
Seth
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
>
> A data point: The KillaCycle uses about 700 W-hr on a run down the strip
> and back on the return road. It does not draw much on the 1/2 mile return
> road going 20 MPH, but I'm not sure exactly how much. I'd guess 150 W-hrs.
> This leaves about 500 to 600 W-hrs for the 1/4 mile run itself.
>
> The peak HP is a bit less than 300.
>
> Super caps that I have evaluated on paper have no trouble putting out 300
> HP, but have difficulty with the required 700 W-hr.
>
> We shall see how the latest generation of super caps pans out. Who knows
> until they try it.
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about combining Super Caps and Li-Ion batteries? Run them in parallel
and the caps would give you the fast power draw to get the HP you desire
and the Li-Ion would provide the longer lasting storage to make the run home.
I am sure it isn't as simple as hooking up a few wires, or it would be part
of many battery designs.
At 11:46 PM 4/3/2003, you wrote:
A data point: The KillaCycle uses about 700 W-hr on a run down
the strip and back on the return road. It does not draw much on the 1/2
mile return road going 20 MPH, but I'm not sure exactly how much. I'd
guess 150 W-hrs. This leaves about 500 to 600 W-hrs for the 1/4 mile run
itself.
The peak HP is a bit less than 300.
Super caps that I have evaluated on paper have no trouble putting
out 300 HP, but have difficulty with the required 700 W-hr.
We shall see how the latest generation of super caps pans out.
Who knows until they try it.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This was posted on the Elec Trak (electric tractor list).
I thought it would be of interest here.
I spoke with US Battery today. They are the people
that build the batteries for Interstate. While not a
Trojan, they are one of the better manufacturers out
there. I'm in Georgia and asked him if they sometimes
sold golf cart batteries to Sams Club. He said that
the factories here (two in Georgia) have not, but
could not vouch for the ones in other states. I asked
him how we could tell if a battery was a US Battery or
one from some other manufactur. He said that all
their batteries would have a red top and white case,
except those manufactured for Interstate. In their
case, it would be a grey top with a white case. He
went on to mention that it is very common for
batteries to be relabeled with a different name, but
their batteries would always have the colored tops and
white cases mentioned above.
Thought this might be of interest to some of you guys.
Darry Howell
Smyrna GA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's another consideration for operating the bypass contactor with
2 comparators and an AND gate.
The first comparator looks at battery voltage and averaged motor voltage.
When they are within 85% of each other the comparator switches state.
The second comparator looks at the accelerator input voltage and compares
this
to some voltage that represents bypass (like 4 volts on a 0-5V accel
input).
These two comparators go into an AND gate so that both conditions must be
true before
the contactor is engaged.
If you want more details I can draw a schematic.
Rod
> Assuming that the extra 12v does not put the controller over its maximum
> voltage, it will work. The contacts of this extra 12v contactor will arc
> a bit, so I'd let up the throttle before switching it. It will also have
> to be a SPDT contactor; common to controller B+, normally-closed to your
> present pack voltage, and normally-open to the pack plus the extra 12v.
There is a forward-reverse contactor turned on by the key *plus* a
contactor
that comes on when the accelerator is pressed - here is my "before and
after" plan:
Regular: Fwd contactor--SPST pedal contactor--controller--motor
Bypass: Fwd contactor--SPST bypass contactor--extra 12V battery--motor
This would require removing my foot from the accelerator before pressing
the
bypass button, and when done with the higher speed, I would leave both
contactors open until speed dropped to the "48V max". The Curtis probably
doesn't have the "headroom" to handle a full 60V, so it's important to know
if there is a minimum amount of time before an unpowered motor circuit will
"lose" its voltage (?).
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There is already a remote control design that I have the plans for and
keep meaning to build "someday". The connection pins for it are already
there inside the PFC-20 (or at least my PFC-20). I think Joe put the
plans up on the web site. As for the environmental conditions of your
location... can't say, but posting on the list sure won't keep it a
secret :-).
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> As the
charger would be inaccessible, I would have to have some way of
monitoring and controlling it remotely, perhaps with wire leads
leading up to where I normally charge at with the Zivan. Anyone
done anything like this, and would Rich have a hissy-fit knowing
that this kind of setup existed?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
on 4/3/03 9:12 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> I don't get it, but either way I will stop posting to this list unless I hear
> another "genius" telling me to get a job.
Compared to most others on this list, I'm a moron- but you're a spammer.
So get a real job, or send your spam to Madison Avenue instead of here.
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
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--- Begin Message ---
Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> > The only thing wrong with a Tango is when it meets up with
> a monster
> > SUV
>
> No, the only thing wrong with a Tango is what happens when it
> meets up with a wall. The Tango, as I understand it, has a
> rigid passenger cabin combined with a rather massive battery
> pack - so the SUV will become the crush zone. In the
> meantime, the Tango's 5-point harness should keep it's
> occupant from bouncing about the cabin.
>
> I'd rather be in the Tango than the SUV in that accident.
>
> The problem is what happens when your rigid Tango meets a
> equally rigid wall. I think some crash testing will have to
> be done if they are ever mass produced to determine what
> happens in this situation, but I have some concerns that it
> might not be pretty.
>
> One appealing option is to design the rigid casing such that
> the battery box becomes the crush zone. Batteries can absorb
> a lot of energy as they collapse. Of course, there are a few
> problems with this idea... ;-)
>
> S.
>
> (As a side note, how well is the sparrow engineered for
> crashworthiness? I've never really looked that hard at the
> chassis of it..)
The problem with a discussion of this type is that we can only speak in
generalities. The definition of "accident" is an uncontrolled event, so
every one is unique. People trot out assumptions based on extremely
limited personal experience and hearsay. But there's quite a variety in
those personal experiences, so nothing gets resolved.
One of the basic assumptions is that the heavier vehicle wins. As you
might expect, it's nowhere near that simple. It is a fact that many
SUVs have had little crash survival designed into them because as trucks
it's not a requirement. There are thousands of analysis and test hours
backing up the crash survivability of the typical family sedan.
Radically different construction techniques can set common knowledge on
its ear. For example, the Honda Insight with its aluminum frame and
unique construction is getting a name for itself as indestructible in
collisions. It's anecdotal so far, but it bears watching. A race-spec
roll cage is just as radical a departure from what we're used to.
Since we're stuck with generalities, let's use them in a way that is
useful. Racers travel at speeds that are roughly 2-4 times faster than
passenger cars. Since energy=.5*mass*velocity^2, the energy to be
dissipated in a crash is roughly 4-16 times greater in a racer than a
passenger car. And racers crash a lot. But more often than not, after
a crash the driver unclips his harness and walks away. (Crash survival
isn't as good for some formula cars, but that's a different construction
- we're talking about race cars with welded tube roll cages here.)
You've seen the video clips of horrific crashes on the race track.
Imagine what would happen to the driver of a passenger car or SUV in the
same crash.
The roll cage and the harness are the keys. The racing organizations
have learned over time (the hard way) what works and what doesn't. It's
a mistake to think of these cars as rigid. (Scientifically speaking,
nothing is rigid.) What happens is that the frame spreads the load from
a point contact throughout the frame. Until the point contact causes
local yielding. The result is that the passenger compartment retains
its shape, protecting its occupants. Any deformation is localized.
This is of course, exactly what a unibody car does. The race-spec roll
cage just does it with loads that are an order of magnitude greater.
The Tango will certainly have to go through testing to get certified.
They might even find some flaws that need correction - the devil is
always in the details. Still, I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the
test crew looks at the numbers. To my knowledge, no race car has ever
been tested like this. I'm confident the Tango will set new standards
for crash protection.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:35:58 -0800
>From: Andrew Wysotski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...insulting bits snipped...
>
> If using keyphrase
> domain names is the last method to use in your opinion, tell
> me a better way to get EV marketed so that they are embraced by the
> masses?
Well, since you asked so nicely for a clue, I'll chime in with a few:
1) Start by negotiating a deal with the auto labor unions to get them to
stop opposing the necessary parts reductions inherent in EV
manufacture. It is in their best long term interests, if not their short
term, but understanding this isn't easy for them.
2) Develop an appropriate tax structure so that the road use taxes paid
through the gasoline tax are not lost to governments. This will move the
tremendous force of the revenue side of government in the direction of
supporting the electric vehicle production process. Currently only the
expense side (which has to pay for pollution mitigation etc.) supports it.
3) Breathe deeply, if that makes you cough, you can easily sell EVs where
you stand. Set up a distributorship.
4) Educate your consumers. Education is more than 50% of sales of "new"
technology (or even technology that is over a century old like EVs).
5) Maintain scrupulous honesty. There have been so many EV charlatans
over the years that trust in the EV industry is tremendously low. If you
make any promise, keep it. If you are unsure about something, say so and
why.
6) If you are trying to make a fast buck, good luck to you. I hope you
succeed. An attractive internet domain won't change the world, and it is
far from being the largenst problem facing EV marketing. Believe me, I've
been on 'the internet' since it was run by the military, and made my share
of money by making it a better tool. The sex industry didn't make it what
it is, but it sure has brought more than its fair share of problems to be
overcome. Overcoming those (and other) problems is what make the internet
a useful tool.
--
____
__/o|__\~ ~ ~
`@ [EMAIL PROTECTED](=
http://www.SoCalEV.com
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Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
>
>
>
> (As a side note, how well is the sparrow engineered for crashworthiness?
> I've never really looked that hard at the chassis of it..)
I try not to think about that while blasting up Bond road in the Dark at
65 and 200 amps.
John L. ya know there this little humm from the 8 incher at about 62
MPH.....
That lovely Zivan gave a whooping 9 amps and still open the 15 amp
breaker after I got 1 Kwhr out of the wall at Poulsbo Athletic Club.
HUmmm I need to get the Green box shoe horned into Tweety.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Except the SUV might decapitate the Sparrow driver.
>
More likely a Deer. The Suv/Vs Sparrow, is a quick argument, Done...
Game over.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alan Batie wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 07:15:37PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > The only thing wrong with a Tango is when it meets up with a monster SUV.
>
> I see this sentiment about a lot of cars, and in the case of the Tango
> it's particularly wrong:
>
> 1. Look at how the thing's built! And how much it weighs.
> 2. Look at how maneuverable it is. It would be the most freak of accidents
> that couldn't be avoided in it.
> 3. The safety issue is way overblown:
> a. A "monster SUV" would be so much paper under a semi --- there's
> always something bigger out there
> b. How many accidents have you witnessed ever, much less one serious
> enough that size difference would be a safety issue, much less
> actually been in? Now compare with hours and miles on the road...
> c. Yes, every little bit helps, but there is a point of diminishing
> returns where worrying about it is probably more likely to cause
> you to die of a heart attack than the extra measure will save you
> in an accident.
>
> --
> Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
> alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
> PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
> 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
Yea Ranger Vs SUV... er ok a Navagator, Much pain, head on dead in .5
Sec
Ranger VS Semi Dead in the time the back wheels get to me.
Sparrow Vs Nagator, Dead in .2 Seconds
Sparrow Vs Semi.. well it's just as quick.
So who's counting???? and does it matter???
Better yet stay a wake drive out of trouble, and antisipate the idoit, I
wish the Sparrow's brakes were as agressive and smooth at my ABS
Ranger. They get hot and well I don't know the limits yet, and lets
hope I don't need to know.
Umm John Lussmyer, What kinda brake pads do I need to buy you????
All's fine but there is a LOT of brake dust on the front rims...
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
Well my Sparrow does great commuting at 70-75mph at ~100amps. Don't have to
worry about the SUVs because they're stuck in the non-diamond lane
congestion since they are typically commuting without any passengers.
And the big Green shoebox happily outputs 54+ amps dc back into the pack.
Wide open, I have yet to trip a 40a 208/230v breaker. But sucking off of
Avcons is different; have to limit the pull to <40a output unless I want to
reset the public charging station box, or lock it down until it can be
serviced.
Still a wonderful way to commute, and great for flat, straight freeways with
diamond lanes. And even without the flashy blight colors, like duck yellow,
a Sparrow is hard to ignore.
Keeping the EV spirit alive in the fast lane,
Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
Rich Rudman wrote:
I try not to think about that while blasting up Bond road in the Dark at
65 and 200 amps. John L. ya know there this little humm from the 8 incher at
about 62
MPH.....
That lovely Zivan gave a whooping 9 amps and still open the 15 amp
breaker after I got 1 Kwhr out of the wall at Poulsbo Athletic Club.
HUmmm I need to get the Green box shoe horned into Tweety.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:58:51 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm naturally suspicious of anything that claims to give something for
nothing - which is in essence what this device is claiming to do.
My guess is this is another scam of the 'free energy' kind. Admittedly, a
much more attractive web site than such scams usually have, but other than
that it has all the hallmarks of Tilley at Large.
I sent them a email, asking which patents they held and where I could see a
demo. It will be interesting to see what they reply. If they have developed
a technology to perform electrolosys without large amounts of input energy,
they almost certainly have applied for a patent for it. And, if they're a
scam [which is a reasonable guess], they almost certainly haven't.
S.
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