EV Digest 2818
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) TdS Report #67: Photos - Junior Solar Sprints
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) TdS Report #68: Photos - Measuring the Fuel for the milage tests.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) EV news from the cold and rainy east coast
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT - Insight Hybrids DONT like rocks in radiator at 100mph
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Thunder sky chargeing
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car weighing2000 pounds
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) OT email down
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: air conditioning efficiency & motor requirements
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Thunder sky chargeing
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) TdS Report #69: Photos - People Pictures (mostly)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Emeter with Palm Dash
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) SCCA classes
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Thunder sky chargeing
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Emeter with Palm Dash
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: SCCA classes
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers (pictures)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lighest rear wheel drive
by ItalysBadBoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part three)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RIDE ON!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Fiero range and Battery chargers
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #67: Photos - Junior Solar Sprints
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_031.html
Junior Solar Sprints
The Junior Solar Sprints were held at the Washington Festival.
Kids are given kits that include a solar panel and an electric motor.
They then build cars powered by sunlight and race them.
Ready ... Set ...
GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
The solar panels are usually tiltable, so they can be points directly at the
sun for maximum power.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #68: Photos - Measuring the Fuel for the milage tests.
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_032.html
Measuring the Fuel for the milage tests.
Many of the Tour de Sol competitions depend on getting accurate data so as
to measure the vehicles' performance.
These pictures show the measuring of fuel to get accurate hybrid and
alternative-fuel categories.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I have some good news! If you were to head over to the EV Album
Tradin' Post, you will notice that my truck is no longer for sale! My
father and I towed it down to its new home with Eric Krofchak in Cedar
Grove, NJ on Memorial Day. I am very sad to see it go, being both my
first car and the first car I have built :-) For those of you who are
thinking of or trying to sell your EV and are concerned about getting
even close to what it is worth, you may be glad to know that I got
$9,000 for the truck. I had around $13,000 and over 300 hours into it,
however I am happy to see it go at a loss because it accomplished two
very good things: 1) the money from the truck sale gives me enough to
afford the Datsun 240Z conversion I am working on now, which is
becoming quite the expensive project, and 2) as tacky as this may
sound, it promotes the cause by getting another EV on the road. So,
EVers take heart, if you wait long enough and advertise in the right
places, you will sell your EV!
Now that the truck is out of the driveway, I can really start making
progress on the Z car. I just put a few more photos up on my website,
and will do my best to update it as I go along. The car is completely
apart right now, the interior, exterior, and suspension are all
entirely disassembled. I have new springs, strut cartridges,
polyurethane suspension bushings, brake calipers, RWCs, shoes, pads,
master cylinder, and vacuum booster. ETC!!! This is going to be a lot
of work (already is...), but I am enjoying every minute of it, and I
will have an awesome EV to boot! As my friend Ben already posted, he's
just gone and got himself a gorgeous Porsche 914. I surmise the car
may have found its way to this coast from somewhere with less salty
roads, as the body is in almost perfect shape, with extremely minimal
rust. It should make a nice EV! When he's all done, we'll have to
race, Japanese sports car vs Porsche. Or clean house at the 2005 Tour
de Sol... :-) See ya
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
likewise, my Insight has not had any rocks in the radiator, but many to
the windshield.
I've had mine up past the governed speed with a little hack I installed,
and yes it feels
a little "light" at those speeds.
Perhaps I'll use some batteries to ballist her down in the future... <G>rin
L8r
Ryan
damon henry wrote:
I've been following the Honda Insight lists for over two years and
this is the first rock in the radiator story I have heard. Hardly
seems like a trend. It's got to be a pretty lucky shot to get to the
radiator. I just turned over 38K on my Insight and haven't collected
in rocks. I've had mine up to 110mph a couple of times. Starts to
feel a little loose at those speeds like there's not much rubber
touching the ground anymore.
damon
From: "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT - Insight Hybrids DONT like rocks in radiator at 100mph
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 07:02:54 -0700
Well, I know this should be posted to some Insight group, (sorry )
but I am not sure it happened when I ran "Lil Sipper" up over 100
per' briefly coming home
on some nice roiling hills on I-5 south bound, north of Everett WA.
BUT arriving at work yesterday, green fluid was leaking out from the
front of her. I drove post-haste to the
local Honda Dealer. Hoping it was warrantee work. He called back
bout 1 pm to say
that a rock had hit the radiator. In chatting with service folks, I
suggested a screen. He even volunteered that Insights are prone to
picking up rocks. ( wish I had had THAT conversation on my pocket
digital recorder )j
Any way... any one else out there heard of such a thing. How about
a class action against Honda of America, for all the $600. radiator
replacement jobs ?? ( Just kidding )
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
warning : newbie asking lots of questions......
In their users manual on their website (
http://www.thunder-sky.com/explain(en).htm ) , Thundersky says after the
blurp about chargeing at < 1C "(.3 is best)....(use our company supply
large power pulse charger, charging current could be increased to 10C)"
Does anyone know what that charge profile would be ? I am a newbie
working out designs to convert my PU and have been following the list's
discussions on these new batteries.
Questions:
1. If we can't charge these things quickly, how will they survive
regenerative breaking loads?
2. What do you do if your pack is full and the system still wants to
create regenerative energy ? does it just not happen because pack
voltage is high?
3. Do the lithium-ions have the same problems as flooded of variences in
internal resistance causeing problems in series strings, or do the
internal electonics in the cells take care of that.
4. do individual cells within a Pb-a battery suffer this problem? or is
the shared chemical environment ( do they share?) equalize the cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wouldn't the best measure be the hp it takes to sustain a given speed?
Lawrence Rhodes......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car
weighing2000 pounds
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > 5.5 is almost twice the cd of the fairing I have. Seems to me that my
> > fairing would just about double the range of that bike. Lawrence
> > Rhodes......
>
> Total drag is Cd times frontal area. The fairing could have a much lower
> Cd, but still increase drag because it increases frontal area.
>
> For example, in ultralight aircraft there is still a big debate over
> which is better; an open-frame design with everything hanging out in the
> wind but a low frontal area, or adding a body which increases big
> frontal area but lowers Cd. There are winners with both designs.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for the OT, but lightning struck the computer
system and took out the entire network.
I repaired everything but had 500 email messages
over the past week and deleted many.
If you sent one direct to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
please resend.
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
try these guys:
www.masterflux.com
their ad says 12v-600vdc electric air conditioning.
Seth
Bryan Avery wrote:
>
> The electric A/C compressor Sanden describes on their site looks pretty
> interesting, but last I checked they would only sell them to OEM's
> because the controller is apparently extremely finicky and they don't
> want to walk you through getting it working correctly unless you are
> going to be buying them in large quantities. That was the impression I
> got at least. This is the only electric compressor I have run across so
> far.
>
> Anyone have any idea how much more efficient scroll compressors
> generally are compared to a standard compressor? It seems that scroll
> compressors are starting to show up in some new cars. I ran across a
> reference to several of Ford's vehicles using them starting with 2001 &
> 2002 model years. At this point, I'm not sure if the gain would really
> be worth the work (and added cost) to get a hold of one of these.
>
> -Bryan Avery
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:23 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: air conditioning efficiency & motor requirements
> >
> > http://www.sanden.com/
> >
> > Victor
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The curve goes both ways for halogen lamps. Halogen lamps have the
halogen to redeposit the filament back on the filament. (I really meant
to say it that way) If you run them too cold, they lose life. Not quite
as extreme as too high a voltage/ too hot. But you can play games with
color temperature and life with them.
Seth
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > homebrew load... Hmm, maybe just 10 or 20 standard 120v lightbulbs
> > being run at 160v or so. Wonder how long they would last? :-)
>
> Not long! For normal (non halogen) bulbs, here is the relationship
> between voltage and life:
>
> % of rated voltage 100% 110% 120% 130% 140%
> % of its rated life 100% 30% 10% 4% 1.5%
>
> You'd be better off wiring pairs of 120v bulbs in series, so they could
> take up to 240v. They still draw about the same current at 80v each as
> they do at 120v.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> warning : newbie asking lots of questions......
> In their users manual on their website (
> http://www.thunder-sky.com/explain(en).htm ) , Thundersky says after the
> blurp about chargeing at < 1C "(.3 is best)....(use our company supply
> large power pulse charger, charging current could be increased to 10C)"
Forget it, it's an error; 10C for 100Ah cell is 1000A.
> Does anyone know what that charge profile would be ? I am a newbie
> working out designs to convert my PU and have been following the list's
> discussions on these new batteries.
Same profile.
> Questions:
> 1. If we can't charge these things quickly, how will they survive
> regenerative breaking loads?
It's not loads, it's a source. Regen current must be limited by
your controller ir inverter to safe for the cells limit.
I'm planning to limit to 1C (-90A) at 4.2VPC.
In hi voltage pack -90A battery current equals 200-300A motor current;
still pretty aggressive regen.
> 2. What do you do if your pack is full and the system still wants to
> create regenerative energy ? does it just not happen because pack
> voltage is high?
Yes, it does not happen unless you provide dummy load and clamp
your pack with giant zener (like 300V 100A :-) ).
> 3. Do the lithium-ions have the same problems as flooded of variences in
> internal resistance causeing problems in series strings, or do the
> internal electonics in the cells take care of that.
There is no internal electronics. And, frankly, it's good.
Yes, the cells will get out of balance over time, although effect isn't
as pronounced as for PbA batteries.
> 4. do individual cells within a Pb-a battery suffer this problem? or is
> the shared chemical environment ( do they share?) equalize the cells.
Optimas do not share cell environment, some flooded batteries might
have common electrolyte, but still battery-to-battery imbalance
is unavoidable. FYI, having common reservoir of electrolyte sloshing
around in the flooded battery does not guarantee equal conditions
of its individual cells, although it would help some.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #69: Photos - People Pictures (mostly)
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003/photos_033.html
People Pictures (mostly)
The Tour de Sol runs on the dedication and energy of many, many people.
Here are a few ...
Teams checking and getting their paper work.
Barbara Gillett
Drew Gillett
For as long as anyone can remember, Drew has marked the rally route with
colored arrows. Here he is helped by a volunteer from one of the competing
teams.
Drew and his team of path markers.
Mike Skelly, Jr. and Rob Wills at the acceleration testing area.
Anissa Sanborn
Nancy Hazard, Director of the Tour de Sol
Gail Burrington
Solar living model home.
Bob Strattan and Kate Skelly
Spencer Quong
Janice Dauphinais
-- getting the job done.
Janice giving out the good news. "You've passed tech testing!"
Priscilla Helwig
Giving a school tour.
Warren Leon, Executive Director of NESEA
The Great New England Energy Show truck provides electricity for the sound
system and other purposes. Solar panels on the roof charge batteries in the
truck and inverters produce 120 Volt AC current for various loads.
Mark Skinder, cleaning the solar cells on the Energy Show truck.
Steve Kurkoski,
keeper of the charging trailer.
Ambrose Spencer and Nancy Hazard
Ambrose Spencer set up his "solar toys".
The plastic pool had a water fountain, and the round silver thing is a fan.
He also set up a tug-of-war between students and a solar-powered electric
winch. That was very popular.
Eugene Beer, the PianoPeddler.
Rob Wills, Technical Director of the Tour de Sol
Mike Bianchi interviewing the Sunpacer team.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I connected my palm PDA to the emeter and
was delighted with the visual interface.
It reads pack voltage and current in large
font and KWH and AHr in small font.
I plan on buying a cheap palm to mount permantly
on the TEVan (the wife likes her palm so I have
to improvise). If you have a palm PDA and Emeter
with RS232 I strongly recommend trying this out.
I would much rather watch the palm display while driving
than the LED emeter display.
Hopefully I can get an older one on Ebay for less than $50
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The soon to be doner vehicle For my conversion is the 88/93
mitsubishi PU I used in autocrossing, I ran D street prepared which
allowed "external mod"s to the engine and updateing and backdateing
(hince the 88/93) There is a catch-all class called open street
prepared where you start stock, do what you want, but you must stay on
DOT rubber. The Mod class usually runs on cantaliver race tires. I plan
on running "manyamp" there when it is converted.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Optimas do not share cell environment, some flooded batteries might
> have common electrolyte, but still battery-to-battery imbalance
Huh??!? How would this work? Wouldn't a common electrolyte short out
the cells in the battery?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I connected my palm PDA to the emeter and
was delighted with the visual interface.
It reads pack voltage and current in large
font and KWH and AHr in small font.
I plan on buying a cheap palm to mount permantly
on the TEVan (the wife likes her palm so I have
to improvise). If you have a palm PDA and Emeter
with RS232 I strongly recommend trying this out.
I would much rather watch the palm display while driving
than the LED emeter display.
it is also cool because you can make the Palm beep at you in
undervoltage conditions, along with lots of other fun features. I made
some graphs a while back in my truck:
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/S10/serialfun/serial_fun.html
Hopefully I can get an older one on Ebay for less than $50
I got a palm III for this very purpose from Ebay for 35 bux
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The soon to be doner vehicle For my conversion is the 88/93
mitsubishi PU I used in autocrossing, I ran D street prepared which
allowed "external mod"s to the engine and updateing and backdateing
(hince the 88/93) There is a catch-all class called open street
prepared where you start stock, do what you want, but you must stay on
DOT rubber. The Mod class usually runs on cantaliver race tires. I
plan on running "manyamp" there when it is converted.
sounds like a fun project! Where are you located? Can you tell me
more about SCCA stuff? When my Datsun 240Z is done I would like to
take it to autocross events. Cheers
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first three contactors connect to the resistor in the same order as
their controller brush. The positive contactor is always on feeding them.
The last contactor is interupted by a relay. Are the pictures worth a
thousand words. Do you see the smaller resistor below the large one. Do
you see the controller in front of the motor? Do you see how the positive
leg comes from the pack and back out to the motor? What is that relay
(looks like a vacuum tube) doing? Lawrence Rhodes......
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Laher/DSC00066.JPG Controller, motor, resistor,
5 contactors & relay.
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Laher/DSC00067.JPG Better view of relay
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Laher/DSC00071.JPG View of small resistor
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Laher/DSC00074.JPG Copper brush
controller(LubOmatic) cover off
> Can you find, or trace out the schematic of the controller? We are
> really just guessing, with no good information on what it presently has.
> Your more recent posts make it sound like a simple resistor controller,
> with no series/paralle switching; just several big resistors that are
> switched in series with the motor to control speed.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is that 6.7 an A89 ADC motor? Lawrence Rhodes.....
----------------------------------------------------
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----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part
three)
> Well to be honest I don't know the answer to some of these questions. For
> gearing I decided to start with the stock gearing so I am using the same
> sprockets that came on the motorcycle. I am considering trying a larger
> gear on the back wheel to give me a little more acceleration. I wouldn't
> mind a bit better 0-20 speed and one thing that I have not tested yet but
am
> worried about is starting from a dead stop on a hill. Once I get up to
> about 20mph it pulls real nice up to about 50 and then takes a little more
> time to get up to 60. I did figure out that at 60mph my motor should be
> turning about 2600 RPMs which is probably a bit low for this motor
> considering that most of my riding will be done at lower speeds. I
haven't
> weighed the bike but it is not light. With 108lbs of lead, and 50 lbs of
> motor the bike is probably around 350 - 400 pounds. I am 6'3" and 245
> pounds so I add quite a bit of weight and aero drag. If I were to go with
4
> MB80's for my final pack that would add about another 50 pounds. I
> currently have three instruments to look at, my DMM reading the pack
voltage
> a clamp on ammeter watching the battery amps and my speedometer. It's
hard
> to keep an eye on all three and pay attention to what is going on around
me,
> but it seems like right now I can cruise at 40mph pulling ~90amps and
50mph
> ~120 amps. The road where I am testing has a slight grade to it, so I
have
> to look at what it takes going down hill and compare that against what I
see
> going the other way. I'm not sure exactly how changing the gearing will
> affect these numbers. On the one hand I would expect it to lower my top
> speed, but since I have never seen more then 250 amps and my current pack
> sags down to around 43 volts during acceleration maybe the new ratio would
> allow the volts to stay a bit higher. My controller is a 275 amp curtis,
so
> I seem to have some more head room on current, plus there is still quite a
> bit of fine tuning to do to the bike. So it may be possible to get better
> low speed acceleration and keep my 60mph top speed. I also know that my
> brushes are currently set to neutral. I am not sure how adjusting these
> might change things. The other option that I am considering still is
going
> to 72V. With the performance I am seeing right now I am sure that 72V
would
> be scarey fast, but that would mean buying a new controller, and I'm not
> sure I want to spring for that. The current performance isn't bad. The
> only thing that I am really worried about is those times when I turn left
> into the flow of traffic only to realize that there is a car coming
somewhat
> faster then I first thought, I don't feel like I have much umph at that
> point to get me out of the way. Also I still need to find a good hill to
> test acceleration from a dead stop on. It is very likely that I will
leave
> everything just as it now is, but you know you've always got to tinker.
Oh
> yeah I am running one of the surplus Tropcica motors. They are ADC 6.7
inch
> although I believe they are an out of production version. I think the
name
> plate rating is 96V (could be 72) and I think they are rated around 7HP
> continous and 30hp peak. My current setup seems to be using 5-6 hp to
> cruise at 50. I have not ran at 60 long enough to get a feel for what
that
> takes. The roads around my house that I do my test runs on are mostly 45
or
> lower speed limits, so I don't have much of a chance to cruise at 60 I
have
> just verified that I can accelerate to that speed.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part
> >three)
> >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:41:20 -0700
> >
> >I was wondering what kind of gearing, weight and motor your bike has.
> >(website?)I am kind of disapointed in my performance with the 400 amp
> >Curtis
> >and 48v with the A89. It is ok in the hill climbing area but not so
great
> >in acceleration or top speed. Lawrence Rhodes......
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:31 AM
> >Subject: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part
three)
> >
> >
> > > >objectionable. Driving behind an electric car is quite nice, really;
> >I'm
> > > >thinking, hey, this guy is not belching smoke in my face.
> > >
> > > Ummm, this isn't necessarily true, let me 'splain.
> > >
> > > The other night I spent a couple of hours tinkering on Sparky my 48V
> >1974
> > > Suzuki GX250, at the Wayland EV juice bar. I had finally received my
> >new
> > > speedo cable so I was actually able determine what speed I was riding
> >at.
> > > Although the 4 Hawker GE16P's that made up my test pack were making a
> > > valliant effort, especially considering that they had spent their life
> >up
> >to
> > > this point riding in the back of "White Zombie" trying desperately to
> >hold
> > > themselves together as they belted out 800 amps in 13 second bursts
and
> > > occasionally witnessed one of their "pack buddies" explode, they were
> >not
> > > able to get me to my goal of 60mph as the voltage was sagging down to
37
> > > volts by the time I hit 54mph. The solution was to grab 4 more of
these
> > > same batteries and wire them up in parallel. The batteries themselves
> >were
> > > happy to join a new kinder regime and only let out one small spark of
> > > dissension during the wiring process which hardly bares mentioning
after
> >the
> > > well documented yet unsuccessfull "Plasma Ball Revolt" a few years ago
> >as
> > > they tried to free themselves from the evil dictator who was routinely
> > > torturing them all the while proclaiming to the world that they
enjoyed,
> > > indeed thrived under these conditions. A more leisurely life of
> >occasionall
> > > 250+ amp discharges in the open air of a classic motorcycle frame did
> >not
> > > seem like such a bad gig and they now routinely take me over the 60mph
> > > threshhold I have been seeking, but I get ahead of myself.
> > >
> > > Once the wiring was done John started tempting me with a test run up
one
> >of
> > > Portlands major surface streets. This would not have been a problem
> >other
> > > then the fact that I don't yet have any of the twelve volt system
wired
> >up
> > > thus no headlight, brake lights, or blinkers, not to mention the fact
> >that
> > > the bike has no plates and I have not yet gotten my motorcycle
> >endorsement.
> > > John could see the weakeness in my resolve, however, in fact probably
> >knew
> > > that I had been planning on doing this very thing the whole time
anyway
> >else
> > > why would I have brought my helmet? I put up a weak fight which he
> >quickly
> > > beat down then grabbed his digital camera so he could snap some photos
> >as
> >he
> > > rode silently along side me in Blue Meanie. I questioned him about
> >local
> > > police patrols which he claimed to have no control over besides he
said
> >it
> > > would be fun explaining to the police exactly what we are up to. Now
> >you
> > > see what kind of a twisted deviant my batteries have been subjected
to.
> > > When questioning what our route should be he suggested that we head
East
> >on
> > > Glisan which would take us right past the police station. By this
time
> >I
> > > had no will power left, not so much because John was pressing the
issue,
> >but
> > > because I was dying to try out the new pack so we headed out for a
> >little
> >EV
> > > test run. As we turned out of John's street onto Glisan and began to
> > > accelerate up to speed John pulled up beside me a started snapping
> >photos.
> > > Before we could get going to fast a red light came up and we chatted
as
> >we
> > > sat there waiting for green. It was getting late in the evening, but
> >there
> > > was plenty of traffic out and we where right in the middle of it. The
> >light
> > > changed and we were off again. This time there where no more lights
> >coming
> > > up for a while so we were able to accelerate up to full speed.
Traffic
> > > settled in at about 50mph and I was right in the middle of it. This
was
> >the
> > > first time I had been surrounded by traffic like this and with plenty
of
> > > pull left in the motor I was feeling confident. That silly thing that
> > > happens to all of our faces started to spread across my mine. Man,
this
> >was
> > > a lot of fun. After riding with traffic for about a half mile I made
a
> > > right hand turn and John followed. We cut through a neighborhood and
> >headed
> > > back west towards John's house on Burnside. On Johns side of town
> >Burnside
> > > has it's eastbound and westbound lanes split by Portland's electric
> >light
> > > rail system. As we pulled out a train was coming and for a while all
> >three
> > > Ev's where gliding along silently together. We returned to John's
house
> >and
> > > plugged into his ugly box charger to returned some of the used amp
> >hours.
> > > The four new batteries had not been excercised for a while, so we knew
> >they
> > > would be even stronger on the next run. This time we decided to go
even
> > > further. This time we would go east until we made it to John Tuss's
> >house.
> > > This would be a round trip of about 4 miles. It was basically the
same
> > > route as before but John Tuss lived further east then I had take us.
> >This
> > > time John lead the way. I followed him on Sparky once again enjoying
> >the
> > > pull of the electric motor and the feeling of being surrounded by
> >traffic
> > > but having no problem keeping up. We knocked on Tuss's door only to
> >find
> > > that we had woken him up. No problem he assured us, and came out to
> >enjoy
> >a
> > > few minutes worth of chat about the new project and unplug his
electric
> > > truck. We said goodbye and that's when it happened, although I admit
he
> >at
> > > least gave me warning first. John thought I would enjoy the view and
> > > apparently the smell of Blue Meanie smoking the tires from a
motorcycles
> > > perspective. As we headed back out on Burnside John let loose with
some
> >of
> > > the 1200 DCP Raptor's amps that he has available leaving two big black
> >marks
> > > on the rode and a cloud of smoke for me to ride through. The smoke
> >filled
> > > my helmet and my nose, and though I know John has a hard time
believing
> > > this, not everyone enjoys the smell of burnt rubber as much as he
does.
> >So
> > > next time you are following behind a stinky gas powered ICE just
> >remember
> > > that if you happen to be following behind John Wayland in Blue Meanie,
> >you
> > > may be in for just as bad of a smell.
> > >
> > > damon
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well the cheapest that won't weld. Lawrence Rhodes.......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> On 26 May 2003 at 21:18, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I guess what I am saying is what is the least expensive contactor I can
get
> > by with.
>
> Are you sure you want the cheapest? Don't you want the most reliable, so
> you can be more certain that it won't weld itself on?
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1.
RIDE ON!
Every environmentalist worth his or her salt knows that how you get
around -- SUV, hybrid-electric, your own two feet -- is one of the
most significant factors determining the size of your ecological
footprint. But these days, there are so many ways to get around that
it's hard to compare them from a green perspective. In her latest
column, Umbra Fisk, Grist's environmental advice guru extraordinaire,
tackles some thorny transportation questions. What's the most
eco-friendly vehicle for a family of five -- when three of the five
require car seats? Motorcycles get stellar gas mileage, so why are
they so bad for the environment? What about scooters? What about
jet planes? You get the picture. Now get the info -- only on the
Grist Magazine website.
only in Grist: The wheel deal -- sage advice on minivans,
motorcycles, and more -- in Ask Umbra
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/ask/ask052803.asp?source=daily>
----------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> He's still using a bad boy charger with a variac but he's interested
> in buying something better.
That's pretty brave! Wonder what finishing voltage and current he feeds it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is a little confusing. I still don't understand how 12v selinoids can
take 36v for forty years and then fry when I take them up to 48v. Lawrence
Rhodes......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> I thought I should jump in here and clarify the voltage ratings on our
> solenoids. I've always assumed that the coil rating was the same as the
> contact rating on the small Camdec style solenoids. To be sure I contacted
> tech support at Trombetta which is the corporation that bought out Camdec.
> Indeed the coil voltage is the same as the contact voltage. On the higher
> voltage solenoids they adjust the gap but do not install magnetic
blowouts.
> For one thing there just isn't room. On larger contactors such as
> Curtis/Albright you will find separate ratings for coil voltages and
> contactor voltages. After looking at these particular products on our site
I
> realize they need further info. I usually spend some time every day
updating
> our site.
>
> Roderick
>
> Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> Your Online EV Superstore
> www.evparts.com
> 1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
> Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
> PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
> Port Townsend, WA 98368
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
>
>
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > >>> 24 dollar Solenoid
> >
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
> >
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > >> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only
> > >> good for about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic,
> > >> or they have changed something inside to suppress arcing.
> >
> > Joe Smalley wrote:
> > > My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil.
> > > Not the contacts.
> >
> > It does say "24v coil".
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> > Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
