EV Digest 2836
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) OOPs should have been pictures of Sparky
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) OT:html vs. txt (was watch your quoting)
by keith bierman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Scooter project
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT: HTML in Emails
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Another over-priced EV on eBay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lectra Motorcycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT: HTML in Emails
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: sparky, e-bike, nicads and' stuff from Damon
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Henney problem.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Another over-priced EV on eBay
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EV Motorcycle
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: First EV ride from Oz. (and amp-hours)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lectra Motorcycle
by "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Henney problem.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT:html vs. txt (was watch your quoting)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: battery cooling
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: SIADIS Inverter software question-Window 98 problem?
by "Alaric G. Weigle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Several small smart chargers
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: First EV ride from Oz. (and amp-hours)
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: SIADIS Inverter software question-Window 98 problem?
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: SIADIS Inverter software question-Window 98 problem?
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:17:20 +0000
A couple of others on the list also doing motorcycles have asked to see
pictures of Sparky. Here are some links.
Here are a few shots of it stripped down. Note - the pictures are in
pairs, the second is a low resolution version.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0033.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0033_sm.jpg
Here are the NiCads out of Ralphs car that I am still trying to figure out
if I can use.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0034.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0034_sm.jpg
This is one 6 volt module sitting on the seat. I am trying to figure out
where to put 8 of them.
I should be able to get 4-6 of them where the current batteries are. After
that I am considering some kind of saddle bag, and/or hanging behind the
back seat arraingement. At 28 pounds a piece I have to be careful where I
put the weight. I was consdering shortening the seat, but then the kids
couldn't get rides anymore :-) The other option is to buy a larger glider.
These NiCads have really thrown a wrench in my thinking. LiIons or NiZN
would have fit where my current pack is, but I was looking at $1200 - 1800
worth of batteries. Ralph gave me these for nothing but the time it took
to get them out of his garage, so it is worth trying to make them work.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0035.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0035_sm.jpg
Here is a closeup of my motor mount and chain. I like the placement of the
motor as it leaves a nice area for batteries, but it has caused me some
grief. I mounted the motor on the frame not realizing that this would make
the chain go slack when the rear suspension compresses. I can overcome
this by either redoing the mount so that it mounts off the pivot point of
the swingarm, or taking out the rear suspension all together and going with
a hard tail. Currently I am riding with the chain tension tuned to my
weight and the suspension set as stiff as it will go. This works fairly
well, but I am concerned about what this might do in the long term to my
motor bearings. I still do have an occasional chain falling off event
which obviously I need to totally eliminate.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0036.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0036_sm.jpg
Another shot of my motor mount and my temporary battery trays. I went
cheap and easy with this knowing it would be temporary until I made a final
battery decision.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0037.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0037_sm.jpg
The backside of my motor and a good view of my badly torn seat. So many
details to work on still!
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0038.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0038_sm.jpg
Here it is with the gas tank, fenders and some of the factory trim put back
on. It doesn't look bad this way, although I'm not sure I can keep it
looking this stock with 8 NiCads hanging on it.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0039.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0039_sm.jpg
This is my variac. It is rated 5amps 130V, but I cut the cage and bolted
on a 12V fan out of PC and regularly run it at 10 - 13amps. My current
battery pack only takes an hour to charge so it may be that I am fine until
I start needing to charge all night. It is mounted on top of an old PC
power supply case where I have mounted and heat sinked the rectifier. The
case also holds a 12V dc wall wart that I use to power the two fans.
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0040.JPG
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0040_sm.jpg
John Wayland took some pictures of me riding it in traffic in Portland.
When I get them, I will post them also. Don't worry, I am planning on
adding it to the EV album, I would just like it to be a bit more finished
first.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Off the main topic of this list:
Tossing aside personalities, I was stuck by some of the claims made
about size of postings. I did some local experiments, and found that
simply changing from text to html, caused virtually no change in a 9K
text message, that had some formatting information (bold, italic,
underline, etc.). I crafted the test message using mozilla 1.4, set the
options for the message to be html only, and sent it to myself. It was
9K. I "edited message as new" changed the option to "text only" and the
result was also 9K.
Those that are claiming that html is larger (by 2x) pure text are, I
think reacting to poor habits on the part of senders to send their
message in *both* plaintext and html for compatibility with "legacy"
mail readers. This ensures that their message can be read, but at high
bandwidth costs.
I think a secondary reason for perceived bloat is that many html centric
folks add pictures to their email somewhat gratuitously (I have received
1 line messages with 20Kb of picture as part of their signature!).
I concur with the list-owner/operator that pure text should be enforced,
largely because of the number of poor souls who use email clients with
serious security holes (lookout) especially on certain security
disadvantaged platforms. Keeping the list maximally accessible to all is
also of significant merit (and I too use low speed connections from time
to time, and appreciate being able to count on minimal downloads).
But, I can see where careful use of nice formatting, and even more
careful use of pictures could be helpful. An obvious approach would be
to split the list output, one which permits html, which would strip off
the pure text, and send only the html, and the other which continues to
strip out anything non-html.
Mail tools which provide the choice of sending text + html, html only or
text only would optimally be configured to send both, and the server
would separate out the two. pure text can just go to both. Pure html to
the html list only (with a marking, as now).
Easy for me to say, I don't maintain the list software or the server.
But submitted for your consideration ;>
--
Keith H. Bierman [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
Sun Microsystems Laboratories | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15 Network Circle UMPK 15-224 | 650-352-4432 voice+fax
Menlo Park, California 94025 | sun internal 68207
<speaking for myself, not Sun*> Copyright 2003
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't make the assumption that the motor has problems. Besides the fact
that it can be rebuilt. Many motors just need new brushes or possibly
nothing at all. Many turn of the century motors in antique autos are still
running strong. My Laher with a GE motor from the early 60's is still
running strong. Lawrence Rhodes.....
I know it's
> not long for this world (it's already over 40 years old).
>
> Am I completely missing something or would this work?
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
> IBM: Invented By Murphy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 9:00 AM
> To: Roger Daisley; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Scooter project
>
>
> Depending on battery storage maybe a Lynch motor might be good for your
> project. Lawrence Rhodes....
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=527&product_id=3449
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=527&product_id=3312
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 10:03 AM
> Subject: Scooter project
>
>
> > I'm starting to change a vintage Powell scooter from a 5-hp Briggs &
> > Stratton to electric. Anyone have a suitable package they want to sell?
> >
> > Roger Daisley
> > Laguna Hills CA
> > Ph: 877-454-0205
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Your statement is simply a matter of opinion although one that some on this
> list obviously share. If I send you a 1000 byte message and spice it up
> with another 100 bytes of HTML tags, I don't believe that I have really
> wasted that much bandwidth.
Except that it's more than a 100 bytes of HTML. For one thing, to keep
compatibility with non-html readers, it sends the whole 1,000 byete
message twice. Once in plain text and a second time with HTML added.
When I look at the typical MS Windoze enhanced html messages it seems
like the HTML portion has more in HTML tags than the actual message so
now your HTML encoded 1,000 byte message is a bloated 3,000 bytes.
Now add the folks that never trim messages they respond to and you end
up with 128k messages that say "me too".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have $10,000.00 in parts in my EV. Wish I had bought different batteries.
The glider was included in the price. But that was because the former owner
tore out the motor and half the wiring harness and did not complete the
project. Considering what it costs to build an EV used EVs are a bargain.
Most of us are spoiled. Those that know will always buy used EV's just
based on the price and lack of major grunt work. I would much rather fix
someones home made EV than build one myself again. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have some body parts(Battery covers one side only.) Lawrence Rhodes....
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 2:00 PM
Subject: Lectra Motorcycle
> Hi EVeryone,
> I have posted before (might have been in HTML), but now I can say I am an
> "official EV enthusiast"
> I am in the process of owning a Zap Lectra Motorcycle that needs: new
> batteries & body panels.
> Big Questions: Will NiMHs fit the Lectra? Is there a source for Lectra
> Parts? Or is it an EV Orphan?
> I already emailed ZapWorld two days ago with no reply.
> Hopefully, there is an answer on the EVDL. If not, the world may never
know.
> :-)
>
> Christian
> Dayton, Ohio
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> we should elect an HTML monitor to take care of this.
>
I hereby nominate Damon Henry as HTML Monitor. Do I hear a second?....:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A few notes:
If it is a series wound motor (no regen) then don't remount the motor,
just add a tensioner on the bottom side of the chain. Full torque will
tend to compress the rear a bit more than normal (squat), but it
shouldn't be too bad. If you have a lot of regen then you probably need
to get a different layout.
Alternately, do a jackshaft. I think the minibike from Hell had one
(www.manzanitamicro.com). Then locate the front sprocket at or very near
the pivot.
200 battery amps max on those NiCads. After Ralph had his way with them,
they probably don't like >200A even more than stock.
As for charging:
At 48V, can you use a 2:1 stepdown transformer off of 120VAC and give it
"manners" to get it close to 64VDC for charging? Or a Sorensen 80-13
(80VDC, 13A) power supply can be had for $300 off eBay pretty regularly,
and you could even add brains to it later. I have one for my 40Ah cells.
Seth
damon henry wrote:
>
> A couple of others on the list also doing motorcycles have asked to see
> pictures of Sparky. Here are some links.
>
> Here are a few shots of it stripped down. Note - the pictures are in pairs,
> the second is a low resolution version.
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0033.JPG
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0033_sm.jpg
>
> Here are the NiCads out of Ralphs car that I am still trying to figure out
> if I can use.
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0034.JPG
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0034_sm.jpg
>
> This is one 6 volt module sitting on the seat. I am trying to figure out
> where to put 8 of them.
> I should be able to get 4-6 of them where the current batteries are. After
> that I am considering some kind of saddle bag, and/or hanging behind the
> back seat arraingement. At 28 pounds a piece I have to be careful where I
> put the weight. I was consdering shortening the seat, but then the kids
> couldn't get rides anymore :-) The other option is to buy a larger glider.
> These NiCads have really thrown a wrench in my thinking. LiIons or NiZN
> would have fit where my current pack is, but I was looking at $1200 - 1800
> worth of batteries. Ralph gave me these for nothing but the time it took to
> get them out of his garage, so it is worth trying to make them work.
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0035.JPG
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/DCP_0035_sm.jpg
<snipped out lots, but left some for context>
Notice I adjusted the subject line...
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Poor James. Don't worry. You are having the EV Newbie experience. Almost
everyone that has owned an EV for the first time goes through what you are
going through. This is what the list is for(partly). To help the
inexperienced. I would say your pack is toast. The golf cart batteries
that you have are inexpensive. Buy a new pack and you most likely will
solve your problem. I'm not saying something else isn't in need of repair
it's just easier to diagnose with a new pack. By the sag alone this
indicates a bad pack. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> As soon as you turn the key, you hear the relays "kick" and the voltage
drops
> to around 24v. As you press down the "gas" you eventually hear the relay
> switch and the voltage changes to about 40v. Push farther down, and it
> eventually switches to "full" (80 v).
>
> So I am 99% sure that my relays are working properly. BUT if I put the
car
> in "gear", when I press down on the gas, the voltage reads very low, about
20v,
> and never goes over that, no matter how hard I push the gas down. The car
> tries to move, but it is very slow, and unless I am no level ground I am
not
> moving to speak of.
>
> I hear it switch, but nothing seems to happen.
>
> I also noted that the car SEEMS to have more power in reverse than
forward.
> But there should be no difference between the two. I'm going to guess
that it
> is because my driveway has a very slight (about 1%) grade, and in reverse
I am
> going "with" the grade, and in forward, against it.
>
> So, does this sound like dead batteries, or is this signs of another, more
> serious probem? My funds are limited, and I dont' want to spring for a
new
> pack if I have to fix something else first.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a nice looking Civic , looks in good shape .I'd give it a EVPM of 1
if it sell at 10 k The old cars were lighter . When the ship starts to
sink the price of life boats goes up fast. The price of EV's is going up
I've noticed . There may come a time when a car like this sells for 20K (
when more people want them and the car companies aren't making them and all
the people who do conversions are booked up ) . People spend 20 to 40 k for
an suv hoping to have some real life fun . When they get a taste of how much
fun driving an ev is , well they will just have to have one . When there's
none to be had (just like oil) the price will go up .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:53 AM
Subject: Another over-priced EV on eBay
> $10K for an EV Civic wagon...does it become more valuable when it gets to
> 28yrs old? (at least the batteries are new):
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2417660823
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon, Thanks for the interesting photos. If you are still speaking to me
after my recent nomination, here are a couple of questions:
1. Would one of those spring loaded chain tensioners solve the chain
problem?
2. Did you remove any frame material to get the motor where it is? If so,
are you worried about weakening the frame? Most motorcycle frames I've seen
have framework in that area which takes up a lot of space under the seat.
If that Suzuki comes without this framework, it is ideal for EV conversion.
Thanks, Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 7:17 PM
> A couple of others on the list also doing motorcycles have asked to see
> pictures of Sparky. Here are some links.
.......................................
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris-
Amp-hours are the draw (amps) integrated over time. So you accelerate,
drawing aa amps for bb minutes, cruise at xx amps for yy minutes and
have used (aa*bb)+(xx+yy) amp minutes. DIvided by 60 minutes per hour
gets amp-hours.
For a drive (if you assume a constant voltage) you often see energy
*expressed* in amp-hours which when multiplied by (nominal pack)
voltage, gives watt hours. Which is energy. The amp-hour statements
don't account for voltage, but many people on the list are in the
120-156V range so amp-hours has some meaning without an explicit voltage
reference.
For a trip, I would try to keep it under 30 amp-hours most of the time,
maybe less. Half the C/10 rate amp-hour capacity is probaably a good
place to stop, at least at first.
Low power, higher energy gel batteries are probably better off at a max
of 2-3x c/20 rating. Or 160-240amps for a 80amp-hour (rated at C/20)
battery. AGMs, like those Hawkers can do more. 4X is ~200A or 60kW or
about 80hp input (again, assuming the nominal 300VDC), probably 70 hp
output. I would *hope* that 300 battery amps is safe *if* the inverter
will do it. If you can keep the peak current at 120A total (not 120 x 2
strings) then you are doing very well.
(If I am correcting the wrong person, I am sorry, it just looked like
there was a disagreement in nomenclature there.)
Seth
Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> > As far as doing the batteries *harm*, I'm not sure. The range is
> > better if you generally limit the amps used to 300 peak and 150
> > continuous.
>
> Is there a "rule of thumb" for this sort of thing? I have wondered what the
> best amp-hour draw and max peak for my 26 ah Hawkers should be.
>
> Right now I keep the pack (52 ah) between 60 amp hour for highway cruise and
> no more than 120 amp hour for peak accel.
>
> Chris
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, I was a bit confused as I didn't think I was TOO controversial
when talking about building an e-cycle drive. I didn't even mention the
four letter acronym HTML :)
Seth
Mike Brandon wrote:
>
> Lol! Ok. Forgot to change the subject.
>
> That's a bit harsh Mike. I don't see what Seth said that you're upset
> about. Successfully building a BLDC power stage is at least as difficult
> as any other EV drive and completely on topic.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great, can you email me off list?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Lectra Motorcycle
> I have some body parts(Battery covers one side only.) Lawrence Rhodes....
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 2:00 PM
> Subject: Lectra Motorcycle
>
>
> > Hi EVeryone,
> > I have posted before (might have been in HTML), but now I can say I am
an
> > "official EV enthusiast"
> > I am in the process of owning a Zap Lectra Motorcycle that needs: new
> > batteries & body panels.
> > Big Questions: Will NiMHs fit the Lectra? Is there a source for Lectra
> > Parts? Or is it an EV Orphan?
> > I already emailed ZapWorld two days ago with no reply.
> > Hopefully, there is an answer on the EVDL. If not, the world may never
> know.
> > :-)
> >
> > Christian
> > Dayton, Ohio
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like you have at least two batteries that are toasted. Their
internal resistance is high. If you try too hard to run the car, you're apt
to reverse one or more cells and / or possibly heat a cell to the boil.
Boiling sulfuric acid isn't much fun.
This is pretty well confirmed by the fact that you read only 40 volts when
the pack is in series (full pedal). Half your pack is probably pretty much
OK (delivering 24 volts) but the other half is down by 8 volts -- the
equivalent of 4 bad cells. If you're lucky, that will be only two
batteries. If not, it could be four bum ones. Or more.
You need to test all the batteries under load, perhaps 20 amps, applied
either to each battery or to the entire string. Batteries that measure 4
volts or less under a load test are most likely junk. However, if the
batteries haven't been sitting ^too^ long, you might try a very long, slow
equalization charge on them. It will take many days or even weeks to push
enough current through the dead cells to "wake them up."
If you don't want to take that much time for a venture that might not work
anyway, it's probably time for some other batteries. If you're not ready
for a new pack yet, one option would be to recycle the pack, or at least the
dead ones, and look for some good used golf car batteries. Contact a couple
of golf courses; maybe they can help you.
David Roden
Akron OH USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4 Jun 2003 at 17:54, keith bierman wrote:
> I did some local experiments, and found that
> simply changing from text to html, caused virtually no change in a 9K text
> message, that had some formatting information (bold, italic, underline,
> etc.).
This intrigued me, so I did a similar experiment using Mozilla 1.1 (which is
the version I had hanging around). I used ^no^ formatting at all, just text
copied from a 8kb plain text document and pasted into the composer. Then I
mailed it to myself.
The good news is that it didn't double in size when I used the html only
option.
The bad news is that it wasn't at all the same size. The plain text version
was 7.9k -- essentially the size of the input. The html version was 9.5k --
about 1.6k was expended just in default tags, an increase of 20 percent,
with no deliberate formatting whatsoever. Had I actually used the html
features, I'm sure the overhead would have been higher.
Here's a section of the raw html email (note that this is what some people
on older systems have to try to read when someone sends them html email):
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
This is html text.<br>
<br>
Contact: Timothy
Parkinson, (216)
231-7473 / Email:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]
estra
.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
2003 Blossom Festival<br>
Jahja Ling, Festival Director<br>
<br>
<br>
Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 8:00 p.m.<br>
Friday, July 4, 2003, at 8:00 p.m.<br>
[snipped material]
Nikki Scandalios, Director of Public Relations ?<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.clevelandorchestra.com";>www.clevelandorchestra.com</a><
br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
Here's the equivalent segment of the plain text email:
This is a plain text message.
Contact: Timothy Parkinson, (216) 231-7473 / Email:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
2003 Blossom Festival
Jahja Ling, Festival Director
Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 8:00 p.m.
Friday, July 4, 2003, at 8:00 p.m.
[snipped material]
Nikki Scandalios, Director of Public Relations ?
www.clevelandorchestra.com
= = = = =
Note: this will be my last post on this OT subject for a while. The point
is, list rules say "no html" for good reason. As long as posters comply
with the rule, the list doesn't have a problem and neither do I.
David Roden
Akron OH USA
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Very clever idea, I was thinking of plates between modules but hadn't
thought of the conductive path, only convective, like heatsink fins. The
pipe might still have to go below because of short circuit concerns, but
a nice solution IMO.
Seth
Andre Blanchard wrote:
>
> These may be of some interest, I have no idea what they cost.
> http://www.chtechnology.com/products/chillplates.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:29 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: battery cooling
>
> This is a great idea. In fact, you could optomize on this solution by
> taking sheets of copper and cutting them large enough to slide between pairs
> of batteries, with an extra 1/2" sticking out the top. Then solder the pipe
> to the flanges sticking out the top. The benfits of this technique:
> batteries sit on the bottom of the rack and have no play between them.
> Pipes sit on top and would be accessible should there be a problem.
>
> Peri Hartman.
>
> << snip >>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Also be aware that you may need to use an older style hardware 16550
(possibly a pre-16550A) UART COM port and/or drop down to an earlier
version of DOS. My friend and I had difficulty getting the software
supplied with our order to talk to the Siemens inverter properly until
we went down to my old 386SX-16 Zeos Notebook running DOS 6.22.
I'm certain he'll correct me if I'm misremembering.
-Alaric
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
Have you confirmed that your COM3 works from a DOS process? You indicated
it is supported via a USB connection and so unless there is a .vxd driver to
map the COM3 calls out to windows it may be that SIADIS is just defaulting
back to COM1 when it does not find the hardware.
just a thought,
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Rassweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 04, 2003 16:26
To: EV List
Subject: SIADIS Inverter software question-Window 98 problem?
Hi,
I am using the SIADIS software with the two Siemans Inverters that we got
from Metricmind. I am having trouble getting the software to look anywhere
but com1 for the serial connection to the inverter.
I have used notepad to edit the siadis.ini file where I have changed comm =
COM1 to comm = COM3. Despite this, the software is still reading on COM1.
I am running the software as a DOS window under Windows 98. Victor suggests
that under Windows, the .ini might be being ignored. This seems probable
because I have also tried modifying another parameter in the siadis.ini,
buffer length, and it had no effect.
I have tried identifying siadis.ini as the batch file that should be
associated with the DOS window for the SIADIS.exe. I get bad command or
file. I have tried writing a .bat file that says run siadis.ini or just
siadis.ini. Again bad command or file name.
I do not want to just run the computer in straight DOS mode since I have two
inverters and I would like to be able to toggle between two copies of SIADIS
at the same time. I am running a Keyspan USB 4 port serial adapter that
allows me to have extra serial ports on one computer.
Any suggestions.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I previously wrote of my satisfaction of being able to fast
charge my 132 VDC wet cell pack at 13 kw rate by using my
PFC-50, Zivan NG5, and two 1kw Zivan k2's in parallel (88.6
amps DC into my pack at 150 VDC). An that's not with all my
chargers on.
But a charging nut like me is also interested in many
charging aspects. One of which is the EV conversion driver
that will not replace their light dimmer charger with a
smart charger, on the grounds that "it costs too much". Even
when it breaks, the stick to cheap.
They ignore the cooked cords and connectors, the missed
charges from popped breakers in the middle of the night, and
the under and over charged packs from hard to correctly
adjust chargers.
Now some people get off on tweaking, and I wish them more
power. But many new EV drivers just want to plug it in and
forget it. Dumb chargers don't let you do that. Smart
chargers do.
With six chargers onboard, I personally do not have a 1 kw
120 VAC charging need. But, I do want to show that there is
a simple and smart charger solution that we all can tap
into. If the charger as the brains, we make less mistakes
and enjoy EV driving a lot more.
...
I just ordered the Dual Pro SE battery chargers I plan to
place on my pack.
http://www.4unique.com/battery/dual-pro/dual-pro.htm
In looking at what was available, I saw that there was 6,
12, 24, 36, and 48 VDC chargers. But if I chose a couple of
48 VDC chargers to charge a string of 6 volters I would
still be pushing amps through fully charged batteries to
charge the unbalanced batteries in the string.
I found that there were 12 VDC smart modular chargers come
in different models for charging wet cells, AGM, etc., and
they also offer multiple banks of charging, so that you can
charge more than one 12 VDC battery. They come in 1, 2, 3,
or 4 bank configurations. These are isolated outputs which
can be connected to different 12 V batteries.
This would allow for unbalanced batteries to get the power
they want, and the charged batteries not to be force-fed
(like what smoothers do for AGM packs).
Since their marine / boat market is so huge, EV people can
benefit from their low cost.
How many times have you seen or heard of a EV conversion
driver having poor range or a cooked pack from charging with
an incorrectly adjusted cheap light dimmer charger?
No more! Just wire these small smart charger modules up, and
no worries!
...
I will consider two of my US145 6v batteries as one 12 VDC
string. Thus, I have 11 strings of 6 volters and one 12 VDC
aux (12 strings to charge).
Since I want to charge my 132 VDC pack and my 12 VDC aux
battery, I bought a combination of these smart charger
modules to charge an equivalent to a 144 VDC pack (132 VDC +
12 VDC = 144 VDC).
In the rear of my Blazer I will need to charge 7 strings,
and in the front (4 6 VDC strings and the 12 VDC aux
battery), I will need to charge 5 strings.
I ordered a 4 bank and a 3 bank for the rear batteries, and
a 3 bank and a 2 bank for the front batteries. The 120 VAC
input will be the same for all charger modules (one plug
will tun them all on).
Twelve 12 VDC battery banks being charged at 10 amps by
charger modules with a 75% efficiency. Since my 12 VDC is
fully charged by the DC2DC its load is nil.
(11 * 12 * 10 ) / .75 = 1760 watts used by modules
worst case: (11 * 12 * 10 ) / .75 = 1920 watts
120 VAC * 16 amp source = 1920 watts available
I should be able to run these small smart chargers off one
120 VAC 20 amp outlet without tripping its breaker. 16 amps
is well below the tripping current of a 20 amp breaker.
After I wire these up, I will get with our local EAA guru,
and have him use his Fluke 40 to gather readings on these
charger modules.
Cost:
By buying these modules on ebay:
http://search.stores.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&colorid=5&fp=3&ebaytag1=ebayavail&ebaytag1code=1&ebaycurr=1&from=R10&st=2&attr_form_changed=0&combine=y&query=Dual+Pro+charger+se&SortProperty=MetaEndSort
one can get the price even lower than a K&W charger.
ie: 96 VDC Electro Automotive Kit conversion
(or similar)
Smart 3 stage chargers:
-Two 4 bank (96 VDC 10 amp) modules
$572 + SH (ebay price)
-Zivan NG3, 110 VAC in, 12-80 VDC out (specify)
$829 + SH (EVparts price)
Dumb light dimmer chargers:
-Russco SC 18-120
$595 + SH (Electro Automotive price)
-K&W ENG. #BC-20 Onboard Charger 48-108 V
$595 + SH (KTA price)
For the same money you get all hits and runs with no errors
= a happy pack. This eliminates incorrectly adjusted
chargers. Using these smart charger modules is a no-brainer
for EV drivers!
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
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I'm just not going to say amps anymore :-)
For a trip, I would try to keep it under 30 amp-hours most of the time,
maybe less. Half the C/10 rate amp-hour capacity is probaably a good
place to stop, at least at first.
30 is a bit low; times 300 volts that's only 9kw of power. Bit light.
Low power, higher energy gel batteries are probably better off at a max
of 2-3x c/20 rating. Or 160-240amps for a 80amp-hour (rated at C/20)
battery. AGMs, like those Hawkers can do more. 4X is ~200A or 60kW or
about 80hp input (again, assuming the nominal 300VDC), probably 70 hp
output. I would *hope* that 300 battery amps is safe *if* the inverter
will do it. If you can keep the peak current at 120A total (not 120 x 2
strings) then you are doing very well.
200 amps is pretty much the cut-off point for the inverter. So it's safe
to take the car up to 200? If so then I can really launch this thing :-)
Chris
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>> They were claiming that by separating the PWM and the three phase
>> inverter that you keep PWM out of the motor and this improves motor
>> efficiency.
>> What are your thoughts on this?
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Total Bullshit!
Gee Rich, why don't you tell us what you really think? :-)
> The PWM is there no matter what you do. And Like who cares? With high
> enough PWM Hz and some amounts of inductance in the motor, You get a
> sine wave or modified Trapazoid wave anyways. The magnetics kinda make
> the wave they want.
Here's the problem, Rich. If you are going to use the motor's inductance
for your PWM, then the laminations in the motor have to be optimized to
minimize losses at the PWM frequency.
To synthesize a good sinewave, you need a high switching frequency. But
this increases magnetic losses in the motor. You have to spend more on
the motor reduce these high-frequency losses.
If you lower the PWM frequency to reduce motor losses, then ripple is
higher and your sinewave is worse. You can also run into acoustic noise
if you lower the frequency too much.
If you go for maximum motor efficiency, you'll want a PM (synchronous or
"brushless DC") motor instead of an induction motor. They eliminate
slip, but also get rid of most of your motor inductance. Now you
essentially *have* to have external inductance anyway.
You could add inductors in series with the 3 motor leads; but this is 3
parts, each rated at full motor current.
Or, you could put the inductor in series with the DC power supply; then
you only need one inductor, and it only has to handle max battery
current (which is less than motor current, since the inverter is
stepping voltage down and current up). The inductor also reduces battery
ripple current, so they don't have to deliver high current pulses, or
require big expensive filter capacitor banks.
And once you have that large inductor, there are some beneficial effects
if you run the inverter as current-mode instead of voltage-mode.
Switching noise and EMI go way down. You eliminate any problems with
cross-conduction (timing is much less critical).
Finally, if you add one more transistor and diode, you can use that
external inductor as a separate PWM controller, to step the battery
voltage up or down. This is in addition to the voltage control offered
by the inverter itself.
The first-generation 1997-2003 Prius had a basic 6-transistor inverters
for its motors. The second-generation 2004 Prius is adding an inductor,
transistor, and diode in boost converter configuration, precisely to add
the above-mentioned benefits.
Any time you see increased circuit complexity, you have to ask yourself,
"Why did they add those extra parts? What benefit did they expect to
gain?" Often, there is a reason for them, not just bad design.
So, I wouldn't call the E-cycle approach 'bullshit'.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cliff,
Part of the problem is that SIADIS may not be able to properly determine the
IRQ for COM3 and up. COM1 is always on IRQ4, and COM2 is always on IRQ3,
but COM3 and COM4 have to be assigned whichever IRQ's are free in your
system. (COM3 can be on IRQ5 or 7, depending on whether it can coexist with
your sound card, and USB adapters sometimes assign IRQ's above 10 to serial
ports.) In addition, USB to serial adapters can assign addresses other than
the standard 3E8 to COM3.
Check your Device Mangler to see what IRQ and address are assigned to COM3.
Victor may then be able to help you put in the correct address and IRQ into
the INI file.
As far as running multiple copies of SIADIS at the same time, you may need
to keep a completely different copy in a separate folder, so each can use a
separate INI. Try SIADIS.EXE /? or /HELP from a DOS prompt to see if you
can specify the port or INI file from the command line, then create a batch
file appopriately.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Rassweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 04, 2003 16:26
To: EV List
Subject: SIADIS Inverter software question-Window 98 problem?
Hi,
I am using the SIADIS software with the two Siemans Inverters that we got
from Metricmind. I am having trouble getting the software to look anywhere
but com1 for the serial connection to the inverter.
I have used notepad to edit the siadis.ini file where I have changed comm =
COM1 to comm = COM3. Despite this, the software is still reading on COM1.
I am running the software as a DOS window under Windows 98. Victor suggests
that under Windows, the .ini might be being ignored. This seems probable
because I have also tried modifying another parameter in the siadis.ini,
buffer length, and it had no effect.
I have tried identifying siadis.ini as the batch file that should be
associated with the DOS window for the SIADIS.exe. I get bad command or
file. I have tried writing a .bat file that says run siadis.ini or just
siadis.ini. Again bad command or file name.
I do not want to just run the computer in straight DOS mode since I have two
inverters and I would like to be able to toggle between two copies of SIADIS
at the same time. I am running a Keyspan USB 4 port serial adapter that
allows me to have extra serial ports on one computer.
Any suggestions.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you may attempt to "find" the lost or missing ports with some debugging...
At the command prompt com1 works just fine, correct?
If there were a modem there you could use a command like:
echo ATZ > com1
to send the ATZ command to com1, if it is recieved
you'll see a reply or nothing at all.
If it fails you'll see "can't write to the port" or
"unable to open port", or "blah blah foo bar broken stuff"
Perhaps none of this will work, but if you can get the device on com1
to respond, then you can try to talk to com3 in the same fassion.
Another Idea...
The modified xyz.ini file probably "lives" in the same folder as the
SIADIS.exe. If you simply make a windows shortcut to the exe it
may start running from anywhere it likes, C:\ or C:\windows or maybe
your desktop. There is an option for setting the "startup folder". This
should be the folder where the exe and in live. Or you can create a bat
file that cd's into the proper directory and then starts the exe. You can
not run an .ini, it's not an executable format like .com .bat .exe...
Curious that com1 works and com3 does not, as the aboved mentioned
would not seem to be the problem, since com1 does work. Though it
may simply be defaulting when it doesn't find the .ini and working on com1.
Since changes you have made in the .ini seem to not be effecting anything
perhaps this is the problem.. if you open a command prompt and go to the
folder where the .exe and .ini live and then run the program from there
perhaps you will notice that the changes have taken effect?
It's really hard to say, M$ win in a strange and quarkie beast that tends
to do whatever it likes, which is generally not what you want it to do.
I'd say use dos 6.22 (by far the best M$ has ever done) but it only has
one prompt, terminal, window, user interface.
L8r
Ryan
PS. It can probably be done, it's simply a matter of hacking it into place.
Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
Hi,
I am using the SIADIS software with the two Siemans Inverters that we got
from Metricmind. I am having trouble getting the software to look anywhere
but com1 for the serial connection to the inverter.
I have used notepad to edit the siadis.ini file where I have changed comm =
COM1 to comm = COM3. Despite this, the software is still reading on COM1.
I am running the software as a DOS window under Windows 98. Victor suggests
that under Windows, the .ini might be being ignored. This seems probable
because I have also tried modifying another parameter in the siadis.ini,
buffer length, and it had no effect.
I have tried identifying siadis.ini as the batch file that should be
associated with the DOS window for the SIADIS.exe. I get bad command or
file. I have tried writing a .bat file that says run siadis.ini or just
siadis.ini. Again bad command or file name.
I do not want to just run the computer in straight DOS mode since I have two
inverters and I would like to be able to toggle between two copies of SIADIS
at the same time. I am running a Keyspan USB 4 port serial adapter that
allows me to have extra serial ports on one computer.
Any suggestions.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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