EV Digest 2847
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC vs DC (or boy have I had too much coffee)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Li ion Cooling (Was: Li Ion Series Resistance)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Starting torque
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Lowest frequency (was Re: AC vs DC)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 2 speed transmission for racing?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lowest frequency (was Re: AC vs DC)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) to much torque for launch
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lowest frequency (was Re: AC vs DC)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Southern California EV Specialist wanted
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 2 Speed Motorcycle Transmission
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV digest 2845
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Starting torque
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 2 Speed Motorcycle Transmission
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: eco-friendly transportation
by "Corliss, Jennifer {Info~Palo Alto}" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Lowest frequency (was Re: AC vs DC)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV digest 2845
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EVLN(CA Assm offering $10k to drop SUVs for hybrids in fleet)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVLN(Conn wants CA regs, caves to automaker pressure)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(SF Mayor candidate uses Sparrow instead of junk mail)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Isn't it all AC after commutation?
Yes!
> Do we mean induction vs Commutation?
Not really. Some AC drives use induction motors, but many use AC
synchronous or brushless DC motors, which are very similar in
characteristics to PM DC motors.
> Induction motor has currents induced in bars due to slip, So much
> at start that heat is a major problem. What is the minimum frequency
> of an automotive sinewave(AC) drive?
In the range of 2-3 Hz. They can't go much lower than this or there
isn't enough induction (transformer action) to produce enough rotor
current.
> Sep-exite helps extend useful Series -DC operating range
> Varible freq helps reduce heat on induction motor.
> Why not use an AC drive on a wound rotor motor with slip-rings
> to a solid state "resistance" that regens excess rotor energy
> back onto the line and can inject voltage into the rotor to lock
> it into sync for cruising. Slip rings are continous contact so
> there is very little arcing, dust, loss (seems ideal motor from
> EV to me.)
I think this is an excellent option. Large numbers of successful AC
drives have used wound-rotor motors. Car alternators are wound-rotor AC
motors.
But present engineers are paranoid about brushes and slip rings. They
will go to any lengths to eliminate them. It's as if you said, "I had a
screw get loose on me once, so now I never use any screws in any of my
designs."
> Is there a difference in construction between a PM AC syncronous motor
> and a Brushless DC motor?
Yes, there are subtle differences. As a rule, the PM AC synchronous
motor is optimized to run on sinewaves, and the brushless DC motor is
optimized to run on non-sinewaves (usually square or trapezoidal).
> Another newbie question, this one about batteries: What causes all
> the problem when charging a series string of batteries?
Fundamentally, because all batteries are not identical. Small
differences gradually grow, until they wind up at different states of
charge. The usual way to balance them is to deliberately overcharge,
damaging the best ones to bring up the weak ones.
> how does buddy pairs help?
They don't.
> would the following, auto equalize?
Lead-acid batteries in parallel tend to self-equalize; like connecting a
siphon hose between two buckets of water, they will reach the same level
if given enough time. It doesn't matter how many batteries, or what
their amphour capacity is; only that they be the same basic voltage,
same temperature, and same type.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bryan Avery wrote:
> Why would you have to make an electrical connection to the aluminum?
> All you need to transfer to the aluminum is the heat. Why not just
> use a copper buss bar between the batteries and clamp the aluminum
> heatsink somehow to the buss bar? Or am I missing something here?
You could do this. But now instead of just the cost of the copper buss
bar, you also have the cost of the aluminum heatsink.
The idea was to use aluminum because it is cheap and a good electrical
and thermal conductor. So, a finned aluminum buss bar should be a
cheaper, lighter solution.
Chris Tromley wrote:
> How about this? Make your buss bars out of a U-section of copper.
> The distance between the legs of the U is slightly less than a
> flexible hose. Push the hose into the rows of buss bars.
This would work, too. But now you have the cost and complexities of
hoses, pumps, radiators, potential leaks, etc.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> A high efficiency, two speed transmission could really make a difference
> here, unfortunately I'm unaware of anyone making such an animal at this
> point in time.
>
>
If anyone knows where I can get a small two speed transmission let me know.
It would solve a lot of problems in my EV motorcycle design. Seems like
some manufacturer somewhere would already be making a variety of planetary
gear boxes with shafts suitable for direct coupling or chain drive. Some EV
motorcycles shown on the internet have gear boxes that were chopped off
motorcycle engines, but this method looks like more machine work than I am
capable of. Some older Triumphs and HD's may have had gear boxes already
separate from the engine, but these are hard to find without buying the
whole bike. What about an adjustable sheave belt drive like those used in
minibikes? These are not very efficient. Any other ideas, or different
points of view on the things mentioned above? Thanks, Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> > Induction motor has currents induced in bars due to slip, So much
> > at start that heat is a major problem. What is the minimum frequency
> > of an automotive sinewave(AC) drive?
>
> In the range of 2-3 Hz. They can't go much lower than this or there
> isn't enough induction (transformer action) to produce enough rotor
> current.
Siemens drives have 0.7 Hz lowest frequency (spec is 0.7-400 Hz).
Victor
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gear effiency: 2% loss per mesh on straight cut ground invoulte
gears. those lenco units are great/unique/built for shifting under
load ( look ma, no clutch!) but a planatery gearset has 4 to 8 meshes. A
good gearbox has 0 for high gear and 1 for the rest(reverse is 2) The
rear end in most cars are horrific, can be as high as 25% loss. Get rid
of the 90degree gear drive!!! The highly pressures hypoid gears are
quiet but have a sliding tooth action that is power hungry. You have
all heard an indy car or a race car on TV, that whine is the straight
cut gears. Good news is any of us can buy straigh cut replacements for
our passenger cars. (Honda insight already has em I think) BTW indy
cars use a longatudinal tranny that does the 90degree change at engine,
before torque multiplication.
250MPH and an indy car comes into the pit, you can place your hand on
the gear - box, it is not hot.
the way I heard it.... from a gallon of gas
best ICE gets 28% converted to shaft motion
electric motor 98% converted to shaft motion
accesories eat 3% of that =27
controllers 75 to 90% efficient
Stick eats from 2% to 12% = 26 to 24
Auto eats from 10 to 20 = 24 to 22
rear end from 8 to 25 = 24 to 16.5
and 20% of a gallon of gas has about the same energy as 900lb of
lead :-(
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > > Induction motor has currents induced in bars due to slip, So much
> > > at start that heat is a major problem. What is the minimum frequency
> > > of an automotive sinewave(AC) drive?
> >
> > In the range of 2-3 Hz. They can't go much lower than this or there
> > isn't enough induction (transformer action) to produce enough rotor
> > current.
>
> Siemens drives have 0.7 Hz lowest frequency (spec is 0.7-400 Hz).
Victor, do they actually run this low at stall? The GM inverters only go
to such low frequencies when you are coasting backwards and step on the
throttle. At stall, they apply about 2 Hz.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
too much, it is never to much. :-)
I have been playing with these numbers of gear ratios and torque and you
have to have way more torque than you need at launch to have enough
torque to still accelerated after the launch. Top fuels launch at the
limits of adhesion, but as that acceleration is translated into motion
there is plenty of room left.When they shift,they have a sudden burst of
torque and can "lose it" It would seem that an electric dragster should
eventually have an advantage over an ICE one. An electric motor could
sustain at the limit of adhesion down the whole track so that
acceleration stays constant. ICE can't have max torque at zero rpm.
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--- Begin Message ---
I don't understand this limitation all too well: As you described,
let say your
lowest freq is 1 Hz or 1 rev of the shaft per second. If you stall,
the field must rotate 1 rev/sec to still have slip (so the torque).
If your vehicle rolls back such that the shaft rotates backwards
exactly 1 rev/sec, this means the output freq must be 0 Hz to have
the same relative slip and torque; i.e. a phase gets continuous pwm
(unchangeable). And my drive seem to do it - I've tried out of
curiosity on an incline to allow the car roll back and then step
on the throttle. First, the car of course slows down rolling back
and then start moving forward and this transition is smooth without
loss any torque in the middle (around 0 RPM), and continuous forward
torque in this situation is only possible if neg frequency (backwards)
approaches 0 and goes positive, so there must be frequency = 0 at
some point to support the slip. How did they accomplished this if lower
limit exists - I have no idea, but they did.
Can you give me a hint?
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > > > Induction motor has currents induced in bars due to slip, So much
> > > > at start that heat is a major problem. What is the minimum frequency
> > > > of an automotive sinewave(AC) drive?
> > >
> > > In the range of 2-3 Hz. They can't go much lower than this or there
> > > isn't enough induction (transformer action) to produce enough rotor
> > > current.
> >
> > Siemens drives have 0.7 Hz lowest frequency (spec is 0.7-400 Hz).
>
> Victor, do they actually run this low at stall? The GM inverters only go
> to such low frequencies when you are coasting backwards and step on the
> throttle. At stall, they apply about 2 Hz.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- Begin Message ---
HI
I'm new to the list and I want to have someone convert a car to electric
operation for me. I'm not a mechanic, so I'm not sure if I'm on the right
list, but please contact me off-list if you would be willing to make a
quite on an electric car conversion. Southern California or Detroit
location a plus - thanks!
brad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think a lot of us would love to have a small 2 spd tranny. The problem
is that even if half of use doing motorcycle conversions wanted one it
would not be much of a market. Of course if it worked for go-karts and
ATVs it might help.
Quick poll: How much would you pay for one? $250, $500, $750, more?
At 07:51 PM 6/11/2003, you wrote:
> A high efficiency, two speed transmission could really make a difference
> here, unfortunately I'm unaware of anyone making such an animal at this
> point in time.
>
>
If anyone knows where I can get a small two speed transmission let me know.
It would solve a lot of problems in my EV motorcycle design. Seems like
some manufacturer somewhere would already be making a variety of planetary
gear boxes with shafts suitable for direct coupling or chain drive. Some EV
motorcycles shown on the internet have gear boxes that were chopped off
motorcycle engines, but this method looks like more machine work than I am
capable of. Some older Triumphs and HD's may have had gear boxes already
separate from the engine, but these are hard to find without buying the
whole bike. What about an adjustable sheave belt drive like those used in
minibikes? These are not very efficient. Any other ideas, or different
points of view on the things mentioned above? Thanks, Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >
> Heat is a major problem in ANY motor with huge currents flowing.
>
> If I load a series wound motor down, the field and stator both get hot, the heat is
> from losses during creation of work producing torque. I think it is pretty linear?
>
Actually it's non-linear. Heating due to resistance goes up as the
square of the current.
> If I load an Induction motor to where it doesn't make pull out torque the rotor bar
> current is a function of the slip and can get way hotter than stator. Not really
> work related, just waste. Very unsuitible for drag racing loads.
I'm not an expert on induction motors, but that statement seems wrong to
me. I'll let someone else answer it, rather than getting it wrong.
>
> I looked at BLDC and the loss of torque at higher RPM's concerned me, no field
> weekening avialible (efficiently) but I like the simplicity(eats trapazoidal
> waveforms) and potencial efficiency and regen capabilities.
>
> I looked at SRM, then I looked again, Ok, I need to look at them again, I still
> don't understand how they can work in an EV.
>
Well, Iron is attracted to magnetic fields. The SRM rotor is just a
chunk of iron (overly simplistic explanation)
> Then I found what I thought would be the ideal motor, the slip-ring motor. You can
> run it with 50% slip without burning up the motor, the heat causeing current is
> allowed to escape out the rotor slip rings. it can be re-used. Injecting a voltage
> can lock into syncronization and the efficiency can be bumped up a notch. Has
> anyone tryied using a slip-ring motor? If they can start rock crushers under load
> off of line frequency, sounds pretty axle braking to me.
>
Hmm, i'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but my experience with
slip ring motors is that they're not very efficient, but that's probably
due to the type of motor I've played with (car alternators).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If anyone knows where I can get a small two speed transmission let me know.
Hmm, how about a simple automatic transmission? Uses chain drive. Low
gear uses a sprocket with a one-way overrunning clutch, high gear uses a
Centrifugal Clutch like a go-kart uses.
Starts out with low gear engaged and when motor RPMs hit about 2k the
centrifugal clutch starts to kick in and overruns low gear.
Cheap overrunning sprokets are available at your local bike store. They
use them on BMX style bikes, they are designed to fit something like a
1" keyed shaft.
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--- Begin Message ---
For my motorcycle I would rather put my money into a different controller.
It would be almost scarey fun at 72V and it wouldn't cost me any space or
weight. Just a straight swap with my 48V one.
damon
From: Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 2 Speed Motorcycle Transmission
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:22:38 -0500
I think a lot of us would love to have a small 2 spd tranny. The problem
is that even if half of use doing motorcycle conversions wanted one it
would not be much of a market. Of course if it worked for go-karts and
ATVs it might help.
Quick poll: How much would you pay for one? $250, $500, $750, more?
At 07:51 PM 6/11/2003, you wrote:
> A high efficiency, two speed transmission could really make a
difference
> here, unfortunately I'm unaware of anyone making such an animal at this
> point in time.
>
>
If anyone knows where I can get a small two speed transmission let me
know.
It would solve a lot of problems in my EV motorcycle design. Seems like
some manufacturer somewhere would already be making a variety of planetary
gear boxes with shafts suitable for direct coupling or chain drive. Some
EV
motorcycles shown on the internet have gear boxes that were chopped off
motorcycle engines, but this method looks like more machine work than I am
capable of. Some older Triumphs and HD's may have had gear boxes already
separate from the engine, but these are hard to find without buying the
whole bike. What about an adjustable sheave belt drive like those used in
minibikes? These are not very efficient. Any other ideas, or different
points of view on the things mentioned above? Thanks, Mark T.
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy, I'm really disappointed she didn't include my letter pointing out that there are
several models of electric scooters now for sale in the US!
Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: eco-friendly transportation
1.
BURNT UMBRA
Ever written a letter to Grist's environmental advice columnist Umbra
Fisk and wondered what happened to it? In her latest column, Our
Lady of the Stacks publishes a few of the kind of letters that
usually go unanswered (although not unread): the ones from readers
correcting, amending, or expanding on issues she's raised in previous
columns. Since the topic of eco-friendly transportation seems to be
a particularly pressing one (and, in some cases, a particularly
emotional one) for many Grist readers, the letters Umbra selected
concern everyone's favorite invention, the internal combustion
engine. Check out this sampling of corrections, encomiums, and (yes)
abuse, only on the Grist Magazine website.
only in Grist: The corrections -- reader responses on family cars,
the internal combustion engine, and more -- in Ask Umbra
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/ask/ask061103.asp?source=daily>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> say your lowest freq is 1 Hz or 1 rev of the shaft per second.
> At stall, the field must rotate 1 rev/sec to still have slip (so
> [it produces] torque). If your vehicle rolls back such that the
> shaft rotates backwards exactly 1 rev/sec, this means the output
> freq must be 0 Hz to have the same relative slip and torque; i.e.
> a phase gets continuous pwm (unchangeable).
Yes, that is correct. Here is the problem: Under these conditions you
have DC flowing in the motor windings. One phase is continuously
powered, and getting essentially all of the power. (Actually, in a
wye-connected motor, one phase has 2x the voltage of the other two,
which are in parallel, so that one phase gets 2^2=4 times the power of
the other two).
You are likely to burn out that one winding, because it is built to get
1/3 of the total power, not 3/4.
Next problem: The inverter. When it is generating AC, each phase takes
turns supplying the peak power, and each phase has a resting time when
the current goes through zero to recover. With DC flowing in that
winding, one phase is being asked to carry the full current
continuously. It will overheat.
And, with that DC flowing in the motor windings, they are likely to
saturate. When they do, inductance falls drastically. The inverter
depends on this inductance for its PWM and current limit to work. So,
the inverter can lose control of its current limit, and can't protect
itself at the time it needs it the most.
So, most inverters establish some minimum operating frequency, to avoid
these conditions. When the motor must operate at a lower speed (or in
reverse), they deliberately apply a higher-than-optimal frequency, but
limit the winding current and voltage to still produce torque.
It is very much like slipping the clutch in a car with a manual
transmission so the ICE (inverter) can maintain some minimal rpm
(frequency) even with the car not yet moving or even rolling backwards.
It is also how they start a normal induction motor when all you have is
a fixed-frequency 50Hz or 60hz supply. Because of the large slip, the
motor operates at low efficiency and the rotor bars get flaming hot; but
it starts. Hopefully, you get through this transition region quickly
enough not to burn anything up.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I looked at BLDC and the loss of torque at higher RPM's concerned
> me, no field weekening avialible (efficiently) but I like the
> simplicity(eats trapazoidal waveforms) and potencial efficiency
> and regen capabilities.
Right. PM motors (any kind) are great at full load, but have higher
magnetic losses when running it at light load because you can't weaken
the field.
> I looked at SRM, then I looked again, Ok, I need to look at them
> again, I still don't understand how they can work in an EV.
They are interesting because the motor itself is so darn cheap and
simple. Getting good performance and efficiency out ot them has been
elusive, however.
> Then I found what I thought would be the ideal motor, the slip-ring
> motor. You can run it with 50% slip without burning up the motor,
> the heat causing current is allowed to escape out the rotor slip
> rings. It can be re-used. Injecting a voltage can lock into
> syncronization and the efficiency can be bumped up a notch. Has
> anyone tried using a slip-ring motor?
Yes, I used one years ago in an EV. I first experimented with autmotive
alternators as motors, and then used an aircraft alternator as the motor
in an on-the-road EV.
What attracted me was that by adjusting the rotor conditions, you could
get the characteristics of essentially any motor. It was the AC
equivalent of the DC sepex motor.
Also, I could run it with an SCR-based inverter. SCR inverters are cheap
and simple as long as they drive a capacitive load. With a capacitive
load, the current naturally goes to zero before each zero crossing,
automatically turning off the SCRs without any complicated commutating
circuits. So, you run the wound-rotor motor as a synchronous motor by
applying DC power to the rotor winding, and deliberately apply a little
too much DC to the rotor, giving it a capacitive power factor.
vehicle: 2400 lbs scratch-built EV, CitiCar-like body with the
aerodynamics of a brick
battery: 84v pack of 6v golf cart batteries
transmission: direct drive, with only a 5.17:1 differential
inverter: six 100v 200amp SCRs, driven from a look-up table to produce
a 6-step 3-phase waveform
rotor controller: rheostat, either used as resistive load on rotor
for induction motor operation, or to apply variable DC for
synchronous motor/generator operation
motor: 15kw 120/208vac 400Hz 3-phase aircraft alternator, ~65 lbs
A bank of big capacitors provided the inverter with a capacitive load
for motor starting. During starting, the rotor had a load resistor so it
started as an induction motor. Once started, the rotor was DC powered
and current was controlled to keep the load capacitive so the inverter
continued to operate.
It worked, but starting torque was low and accelleration was slow. Top
speed was about 45 mph. It could barely climb a hill. The fundamental
problem was too low of a pack voltage for this motor, and the motor
itself was simply too small for this weight of a vehicle. But it did
demonstrate that the concept is feasible.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(CA Assm offering $10k to drop SUVs for hybrids in fleet)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}{Our thanks to Rusty}
http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0306/05/c01-184079.htm
Thursday, June 5, 2003 Legislators asked to get rid of SUVs
Calif. Democrats tout need to set an example after adopting
tighter fuel emission limits
By Mark Truby / The Detroit News
DEARBORN -- California lawmakers, known for routinely
passing some of the nation's strictest environmental laws,
are trying to wean their colleagues off their favorite
vehicles: SUVs.
The state's Democratic-controlled Senate Rules Committee
said this week it plans to stop buying sport utility
vehicles for its fleet. Nearly half of the Senate's 57
vehicles are SUVs.
The move comes after the California Assembly, the other half
of the state's Legislature, began offering an additional
$10,000 for office expenses to lawmakers who trade their
SUVs for hybrid gas-electric powered vehicles.
While steeped in politics, the moves suggest that criticism
of SUVs is moving from the extremes to the mainstream.
The heated debate over SUVs in California has large
implications in Detroit, where automakers rely on the
popular vehicles for the majority of their profits.
California's commuters love their high-riding, comfortable
Ford Explorers and Chevy Tahoes. But the state's
environmentalists have enormous influence and deride SUVs as
gas-guzzlers.
California lawmakers, who have passed strict regulations on
greenhouse gases in the past year, are clearly concerned
about being labeled hypocrites. Nearly half of the state's
legislators -- 54 of 120 -- drive SUVs.
"We need to lead by example and we will use whatever bully
pulpit we have," said John Waldie, the California Assembly's
chief administrative officer. "It's time to reduce emissions
in California because Lord knows we have more smog than just
about anywhere else."
Waldie drives a Ford Expedition, one of the largest SUVs on
the market. Like many in California, he's struggling with
the issue.
"I like (the Expedition)," he said. "But I definitely
consider myself an environmentalist."
Detroit's automakers say they have seen no signs that
American consumers are shying away from SUVs, which now
account for one in four vehicle sales in the United States.
Even so, the car companies are developing fuel efficient
gas-electric powered sport-utes.
Both Ford Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus division
will debut hybrid sport-utes next year.
You can reach Mark Truby at (313) 222-2082 or
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Conn wants CA regs, caves to automaker pressure)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theday.com/eng/web/mktplace/re.aspx?reIDx=3578DE0E-CA84-4CFD-B402-F3F08312A0B7
Featured in Daybreak > Health-Science
Clean Cars' Seen As Key To State Air Quality
Advocates Recommend New Emissions Standards
Gridlock Grille By GEORGINA GUSTIN
Day Staff Writer Published on 6/11/2003
The greatest contributor to smog in Connecticut is the
cocktail of chemicals streaming from vehicle tailpipes. But
if lawmakers and advocates succeed in strengthening state
emission standards, pollution will be sharply reduced, they
say � and the very cars on the state's roads will start to
look a lot different.
On Tuesday at the state Capitol advocates released a report
called �Ready to Roll,� urging new laws to lower the
threshold for tailpipe emissions from conventional vehicles
and require 10 percent of all new cars sold in the state to
meet even more stringent �clean car� technologies. Enacting
the legislation will put about 240,000 hybrid-electric and
other �clean� vehicles on the state's road by 2011.
This goal is very practical and achievable,� said Attorney
General Richard Blumenthal, who attended Tuesday's
gathering. �The cost is negligible and the benefits are
huge.�
According to the environmental advocacy group Connecticut
Public Interest Research Group, or ConnPirg, �clean�
vehicles can drastically reduce smog-forming emissions, but
too few are on the market and few incentives exist for
manufacturers to develop and expand their product lines.
Those incentives, ConnPirg says, will have to come from
state regulations, which can play a role in driving up
consumer demand for cleaner vehicles.
These clean vehicles include hybrid-electric vehicles, like
the Toyota Prius and a version of the Honda Civic, already
on the market in Connecticut. But they will include others
like plug-in hybrids and hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, as
well as �clean conventional vehicles,� which will include
features like faster-heating catalytic converters and
exhaust gas re-circulation to reduce nitrogen oxides.
ConnPirg's report urges legislation modeled on California
laws. Under the California model, state regulations would
require car manufacturers to make 10 percent of the cars
they sell in Connecticut comply with low-emission and
zero-emission standards starting in 2006.
The automakers will need to manufacture and market that
portion of their fleet in the state,� said ConnPirg's
Christopher Phelps, one of the report's authors. �It's not a
mandate for consumers.�
But, Phelps noted, the desire for the cars seems to be
there: a recent national survey conducted by J.D. Powers and
Associates indicated that 60 percent of potential vehicle
buyers would consider buying a hybrid vehicle.
The question is,� said Phelps, �are the manufacturers
selling us the cars we want or the cars they want us to
want?�
Connecticut has some of the worst air quality in the
country. The American Lung Association gave the state an �F�
on its annual air health report card, an estimated 260,000
residents suffer from asthma and other conditions resulting
from air pollution, and the federal Environmental Protection
Agency consistently says smog in the summertime far exceeds
federal standards.
Some of the dirty air comes from outdated fossil fuel plants
in Connecticut and as far away as the Midwest. But up to 25
percent � the largest source � of smog-causing emissions
comes from vehicles here, ConnPirg says. And, according to
the most recent state greenhouse gas inventory, 30 percent
of Connecticut's emissions of greenhouse gases come from
cars.
The only way we are going to solve the ozone problem is not
with green cities or green transit, which have barely gotten
off the ground,� said Thomas Godar, the past president of
the national and Connecticut branches of the American Lung
Association, who attended Tuesday's meeting at the Capitol.
�We need to focus on the mobile sources � cars, lights
trucks, the internal combustion engine.�
Federal tailpipe emissions standards have been in effect
since the 1970s, with the result that cars and trucks
produce 90 percent less pollution, according to the Union
for Concerned Scientists. But people are driving more now:
Connecticut residents drove 59 percent more miles on the
state's highways in 2001 than they did in 1980, according to
the Federal Highway Administration. This increase in driving
has offset the gains achieved by the federal emissions
standards.
No single state, under federal regulations, was allowed to
adopt standards more stringent than federal standards until
federal regulators made an exception for California, which
has chronic, dangerous air quality problems.
California adopted its new standards in 1990, and federal
regulators have since said to other states they can also
enact California's laws, but can't change them. The federal
government fears that automotive manufacturers will have to
produce different cars for each of the 52 states if each
state can create its own regulations, observers note.
In the Northeast, New York and Massachusetts have already
adopted the California regulations.
Those regulations have been modified over the past 10 years
to take into account new technologies, particularly in the
development of advanced technology vehicles.
Currently federal standards limit emissions from cars and
�light-duty� trucks � pickups, SUVs and minivans � on five
pollutants: hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide,
particulate matter and formaldehyde. Hydrogen and nitrogen
oxides are the major components of smog.
The standards allow light-duty trucks to emit up to five and
half times more smog-forming pollution than cars, according
to the Union of Concerned Scientists.
There are two basic differences between the federal
standards and the California regulations Connecticut could
adopt. The California regulations would further limit
pollution from the light-duty truck category and would
require 10 percent of the new cars sold to meet �low�
�ultra-low� �super ultra low� or �zero� emission standards.
Connecticut, ConnPirg says, briefly adopted the California
regulations, but decided to stick with the federal standards
under pressure from the automotive industry. In the current
legislative session, all members of the General Assembly's
committee on the environment voted to adopt the California
regulations, but the bill � which legislators said would
have cost the state $75,000 � died in the appropriations
committee.
The state has �made great strides� in controlling pollution
from stationary sources, said state Sen. Donald E. Williams,
D-Killingly, chair of the environment committee, who plans
to reintroduce legislation in the next session addressing
the California regulations. Now, he stressed, the state
needs to �move on to cars.� [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(SF Mayor candidate uses Sparrow instead of junk mail)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.examiner.com/news/default.jsp?story=n.reid.0528w
Publication date: 05/28/2003
Low-budget mayor bid gains band of homeless volunteers
BY ADRIEL HAMPTON Of The Examiner Staff
Market Street on a sunny day roars alive with strolling
tourists, stumbling drunks, lunching businesspeople and the
illicit sale of Muni transfers, batteries, razors and
household goods.
For the past couple weeks, though, dark horse mayoral
candidate Jim Reid has added a little bit of grassroots
politics into the mix, organizing a brigade of volunteers
from the army of homeless and marginally housed folks who
wander the streets by day and bed down on them by night.
[...]
While volunteers headed down to the campaign office for
lunch and took away election materials by taxi, Reid went
over to a group of Chinese Americans who were protesting for
neighborhood schools and against District 4 Supervisor Fiona
Ma.
"I know how to do a recall petition," Reid, who once tried
with little success to start a campaign to recall Mayor
Willie Brown, told them. He said they should work to put
their plight into the form of a ballot initiative,
government by referendum. Across the street, another
supporter checked out the engine on Reid's one-person
electric car.
While City Hall workers and reporters passed by with just a
glance, the streets bustled, the little campaign grew.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
http://www.examiner.com/ex_files/default.jsp?story=X1104CARw
Power play By Scott Squire Special to The Examiner
Jim Reid squints into the noon sky and points to the roof of
the Bernal Heights house he's renting. He'll be up there
later today installing the wind generator he hopes will
charge his new little electric car.
If you are going to run for office on a platform like
Reid's, you'd better be driving around in an electric car.
Reid is an independent candidate for a spot on the Municipal
Utility District board that will be formed if Measure I
passes Tuesday.
The Corbin Motors Sparrow is a three-wheeled, one-person
microcar that looks like an Easter egg, commutes in the
diamond lane, parks in motorcycle spaces, and charges up on
about a dollar's worth of electricity a night.
"Imagine a San Francisco without any gasoline-powered cars,"
Reid says, his eyes a perfect picture of what's known as
that faraway look. If things go according to his plans, San
Francisco will be leading the world in zero-emission-vehicle
legislation in 15 years.
"Oh, I'm a dreamer, all right," says the 51-year-old
building contractor.
Reid goes on to talk about a raft of other ideas for his
city's future such as eliminating overhead power and phone
wires ("I hate those things, silly artifacts from the 19th
century"), a blossoming of fuel-cell powered mini
electricity plants around the city, a radically expanded
public transportation system...
"Right now, of course, I'm only in a position to
brainstorm," Reid says. He readily cops to not having
science or hard numbers on a lot of his ideas. "I know some
of it is pie in the sky, science-fiction stuff," he says.
"I think of it as my job to come up with ideas way out in
left field, and get folks to think about them," he adds,
admitting that the purchase of the Sparrow has played a big
part in his campaign.
"Besides, I'd rather spend $16,000 on an electric car to
campaign in than on sending out junk mail. It shows
commitment to the ideals I'm spouting."
In terms of day-to-day use, the Sparrow is probably the most
viable of the handful of electric commuter cars you can
purchase today. But for people used to normal automobiles
that's not saying much.
"You can't compare the Sparrow to a gas-powered car from the
Big Three. Those cars don't fail. Sparrows do," says Tom
Corbin, president of Corbin Motors.
Reid met with Corbin at the company's Hollister headquarters
three weeks ago and "just hit it off," according to Reid.
The Hollister company has been producing the little cars
since 1999. There are fewer than 300 on the road. "Most of
them are in northern California," Corbin says. "That's where
the idealistic people are."
Sparrow owners are a thick-skinned bunch. Most have hung on
in spite of some fairly serious glitches.
"It's just got a ton of bugs," says Reid. He is actually
driving a loaner Sparrow, having blown out the
ominous-sounding "controller" in his own car the first day.
"It's not a Mercedes, but you shouldn't be able to blow a
controller," he says, then coyly admits that he probably
should have read the manual.
But owners' lists of complaints don't stop with one bad
bit.
Reid and Corbin both know the litany: Brakes and drivebelts
squeal, the doors leak, the electricity meter is erratic...
Inside and out, a Sparrow has the something's-still-missing
feel of a kit car.
"As a builder, I know detail. The first 90 percent is
nothing," Reid says, "if the final 10 percent isn't there."
Giddy and resigned, as righteous idealism and buyer's
remorse duke it out, Reid sighs, "I just love what Corbin is
doing."
What Corbin has done, what Reid identifies with and admires,
is to identify a problem, and do something to address it.
However unrefined the response may be, it is nevertheless a
response.
It's a kindred spirit thing.
Misgivings about the tiny carmaker's present give way to
optimism about the future. Along with many observers, Reid
thinks Corbin Motors is about to make the jump from the
tiny-time to the small-time world of auto manufacture.
"I'd invest," Reid says. "If I had a million dollars, I'd
give half of it to Corbin -- if I thought it would get him
that last 10 percent."
Corbin shows visitors around his factory, talking candidly
and pointing out running improvements in how the Sparrows
are made.
"We got into the market too quickly," Corbin says. "But
we've learned a lot of lessons. And now that we've shown we
can do it, we've got people lining up to help us bring it to
the next level."
Corbin's "people" are investors -- the company's private
stock offering has raised some $9 million over two years --
and parts suppliers. Of these, the latter are probably the
most important.
In his showroom, Corbin points to a full-scale mockup of the
Sparrow II, the clean-sheet revision he says will shortly
address all the issues troubling the first model.
Now, rather than having to custom make most of the
components for his vehicles, Corbin will have access to
ready-made parts, making his operation both cheaper and more
reliable. "Remember Henry Ford?" he asks.
Corbin thinks of his Sparrow as a noble experiment. Now, its
hypothesis more or less proven, it's ready to move into the
broader world.
"We brainstormed a plan to produce 10,000 Sparrows in San
Francisco," Reid says. "It could happen."
Reid ran for mayor in 1999, and plans to run again in 2003.
He speaks of reimagining some of the underutilized real
estate in the city, with the help of federal and state
incentives and a constituency as passionate as he is:
"A mayor could give Tom Corbin $10 million to build a plant
on a pier in San Francisco, hire San Franciscans to work in
it -- sure, it'd cost a bit more, but look at the long
term."
Reid's dirty jeans and the blue collar on his "Jim Reid for
S.F.M.U.D." T-shirt aren't a put-on for the reporter's
benefit; he's already been up on the roof today, getting
ready to install the first, small windmill.
"I'm just experimenting at my own level," Reid says. "When I
find something that works, I'll take it out into the broader
world."
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