EV Digest 3280
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EV parts
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: e-meter interference?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Article in Jan 2004 Car & Driver magazine
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Evercel batteries - experience?
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NiZn cold weather experience
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Evercel batteries - experience?
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) John Deere job
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Article in Jan 2004 Car & Driver magazine
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Article in Jan 2004 Car & Driver magazine
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: e-meter interference?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Article in Jan 2004 Car & Driver magazine
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: attacking the ceramic heater through the firewall
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tickets for parking in EV parking IS OFF TOPIC
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: e-meter interference?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tickets for parking in EV parking
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: attacking the ceramic heater through the firewall
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NiZn cold weather experience
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wabbit Weport -- On the Woad!!!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Trojan equalization current
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: attacking the ceramic heater through the firewall
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If there is any interest on the list for the following parts, contact
me off list. Copy my work address dbrandt_at_nordam.com. Thanks.
1 9" GE motor (new bearings and brushes)
1 transmission adapter for ford escort
1 Curtis 1221B non-squealer
1 electrocraft 30A DC-DC converter
1 slightly used pack of US125 batteries (19 cycled in EV, 1 spare,
lightly cycled, same age)
1 K & W charger
1 booster transformer for K & W (not K & W brand)
19 battery heaters, KTA brand, 35W
4 fully proportional temperature controllers with sensors to control
the heater pads in up to 4 zones.
1 electric heater control relay with arc snubber network and mag.
blowouts.
2 Kilovac EV-200 contactors
1 Gast vacuum pump
1 vacuum pump external check valve
2 adjustable vacuum switches (evparts.com brand)
=====
David Brandt, P.E.
918-342-1252 (hm)
918-401-5689 (wk)
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent tutorial!
But leaves me with new questions:
Lee Hart wrote:
But you *can* use coax for signal and E-meter leads.
For e-meter applications, does the exact type of coax matter? There are
all types of microphone and RG-xx cable TV coax cables available.
- Treat the load side of the shunt as the negative return or
'ground' for the E-meter hookup.
- Run the shunt sensing wires thru a coaxial cable;
- Center conductor from shunt screw on load side to pin 3 on
the E-meter (which the manual calls the orange wire).
- Outer conductor from shunt screw on load side to pin 2 on
the E-meter (which the manual calls the green wire).
Would the center conductor perhaps connect from the shunt screw on the
*battery* side to pin 3 on the e-meter?
Be sure this ductway is *not* iron or steel, or if it is, that it has
some kind of gap between the pieces. You do NOT want a closed ferrous
metal loop or band around these wires. If there is, it forms the iron
core for a transformer!
Ding-aling question here, but in commercial buildings the wiring is
always run in metal enclosures... metal conduit, metal wireways, metal
work boxes, metal breaker boxes, etc. Even the transformers are in metal
boxes (on concrete pads outside). So how come this isn't a problem?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is what Toyota officially has to say about RAV4 EV:
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
Check out FAQ link on the botton of this page.
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> I just read Patrick Bedard's column in the Jan 2004 issue of Car &
> Driver magazine ("The buyers have spoken: Forget electric cars"). Now, I
> know these guys are completely clueless about electric cars and openly
> hostile to them. However, I wanted a reality check to see if his
> statistics are real or invented.
>
> To paraphrase, he said Toyota initially offered its Prius as
> internet-only sales to find out who the customers really were. They knew
> their dealers were clueless, and would only try to steer people away
> from the Prius and toward a high-profit SUV. They sold about 18,000 cars
> in 18 months. That proved there was a demand, so they increased
> production and kept selling them. [That part is mostly true, from my
> limited experience.]
>
> But he goes on to say that Toyota then decided to try the same strategy
> with the RAV4 EV. They offered it for sale on the internet. They were
> selling an SUV, which should have sold better than the Prius. They even
> offered dealers who sold a RAV4 EV a $2000 profit margin above the
> Prius. He says the results were negligible sales; only 47 cars in 2
> weeks, 213 over 6 months. This proves that nobody wants EVs.
>
> Now for my question; is this true? Did Toyota offer their RAV4-EVs like
> this, and was it a sales flop?
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone on this list have an experience with these:
Evercel's Nickel Zinc batteries. These batteries have roughly the charge
density of nickel metal hydride batteries, but cost just slightly more than
lead acid batteries.
http://www.evercel.com/featuresofnizn.html
I'm looking to replace the 12 Trojan T-125's pack in this car:
http://suncoast.net/tropica/
thanks!
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> We've been having freezing and sub freezing weather here in Connecticut
> and I've been eager to get some on-road experience in these temps with
> my 10 NiZn batteries. At present I have 10 NiZn MB80's in the rear box,
> and 10 Optima YT's in the front. Either (or both) strings can be
> selected via contactors. My car has been sitting since before Christmas
> and i returned from vacation only to suffer a blown fuse which took a
> while to track down. I took a brief ride last night and a longer one
> tonight and was NOT pleased with the results. The voltage sag is deeper
> and quicker than in warm weather. Perhaps this is because the car has
> been sitting. We shall see as colder weather is on the way. I'm
> disappointed since I had expected NiZn (like its cousing NiCd) to be a
> superior cold weather performer.
I have seen very good cold weather performance from my batteries. Sag
appeared to stay consistant or even go down some.
However, Rich Rudman has notified me off-list some time ago of serious
problems that appeared to occur in the new NiZns (like yours) when they are
left to sit for a while without cycling. I suspect that is what you're
seeing. I would suggest you contact Rich and Joe Smalley, who have been
experimenting with the 'new' NiZns, and see what they suggest. Rich, you got
your ears on?
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are a few people, listers and nonlisters, who have experimented with
Evercel NiZNs.
I have 22 in my Honda Accord, where they have been happily (for the most
part) providing motive power.
A friend of mine has 12 in his BMW, where they have been much less happily
providing motive power.
There are a few things you have to note about them.
1) They don't like high currents. If you try running them at 500A, they will
live a substantially shorter life.
2) The ones they are currently selling [at least last I heard] suffer from a
fatal flaw: their capacity drops like a rock if you leave them sitting. Mine
have this flaw to a lesser extent in that they "go to sleep", but they "wake
up" after a few cycles.
There is a lot to be said for NiZn, and I don't think we've seen the end of
the technology by a long shot. But I would not advise trying to run your
Tropica off 12 NiZns.
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This has been a very tough decision for me, I want
this job but the family doesn't want to move.
So I thought I would pass this along to the list.
A very good opportunity in a nice climate.
Contact Russ if you have the experience.
Rod................
Hi Rod, just checking in as it's been a month and your
application
hasn't come through to us. They've been known to get
lost in the paper
machine that is Human Resources, though- so if you
still have interest in
this position, please contact me.
Best regards,
Russ
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Hower [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:42 PM
To: Thacher Russell
Subject: Re: power electronics opportunity with John
Deere in NC
Russ,
Jonathan is a good friend and very intelligent
engineer. I worked with him at Baldor Motors and
Drives and his wife became very good friends with my
wife and family. We still find time to meet at least
once a year, usually in Pittsburgh (Jon's mom lives
there). Anyhow, I have been designing motor controls
for forklifts, industrial vehicles, golf carts,
greensmowers, inverter drives and BLDC drives for the
past 16 years. When I was at GE I designed the shunt
motor control for greensmowers that was later patented
by Jacobson. (although I did most of my research and
time with Cushman in NE.) I still love working with
EV's, in fact I have several myself including;
1994 Dodge TEVan (Caravan)
1995 Club Car with a 400Amp control and 8 SAFT NiCd
batteries
1970 GE Elec Trac riding mower
3 electric scooters (for the kids)
2 electric go-carts with my BLDC motors/controls
and an electric push mower with a BLDC motor/control.
I really enjoy working at Ametek-Rotron, but I hate
the climate in Ohio (even though I was born here).
Since my wife's grandmother passed, she also would
like
to live in NC again (I worked at GE in Mebane, NC).
My biggest motivation is working on hybrid/EV's.
I would like to hear more about the job in NC.
My career aspirations has always been finding a job
I love and this sounds very interesting.
I can send a resume (although it needs updating).
In the mean time you can check out my various EV
projects at
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
Thanks,
Rod
--- Thacher Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi Rod,
>
> I've been corresponding with Jonathan Kimball for
> the past several months, and off-hand I mentioned to
> him that we (John Deere) are currently looking for a
> EE with a power electronics emphasis at our
> Charlotte, NC engineering center. This is where
> your name comes in- Jonathan mentioned you might be
> interested in a good job in a warmer climate.
>
> A word about the team in Charlotte: we spearhead
> John Deere's efforts in bringing fuel cell and
> hybrid vehicle powertrains to eventual production.
> ePower is as focused and agile a group as I've ever
> seen in a large company- as I like to say, we have
> the small company 'feel' with a large company's
> resources.
>
> Attached is the official posting. If you have
> interest, please reply with a resume.
>
> Best Regards,
> Russ
>
> <<epower_job_desc.pdf>>
> Russ Thacher
> John Deere ePower Technologies
> 14401 Carowinds Blvd
> Charlotte, NC 28273
> Ph: 704-587-2953 fax: 704-588-0926
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, see this for the Car & Driver rebuttal:
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=619
At 05:52 PM 01/13/2004 -0800, you wrote:
I just read Patrick Bedard's column in the Jan 2004 issue of Car &
Driver magazine ("The buyers have spoken: Forget electric cars"). Now, I
know these guys are completely clueless about electric cars and openly
hostile to them. However, I wanted a reality check to see if his
statistics are real or invented.
To paraphrase, he said Toyota initially offered its Prius as
internet-only sales to find out who the customers really were. They knew
their dealers were clueless, and would only try to steer people away
from the Prius and toward a high-profit SUV. They sold about 18,000 cars
in 18 months. That proved there was a demand, so they increased
production and kept selling them. [That part is mostly true, from my
limited experience.]
But he goes on to say that Toyota then decided to try the same strategy
with the RAV4 EV. They offered it for sale on the internet. They were
selling an SUV, which should have sold better than the Prius. They even
offered dealers who sold a RAV4 EV a $2000 profit margin above the
Prius. He says the results were negligible sales; only 47 cars in 2
weeks, 213 over 6 months. This proves that nobody wants EVs.
Now for my question; is this true? Did Toyota offer their RAV4-EVs like
this, and was it a sales flop?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brad,
If would be FAR MORE beneficial if you'd send this link to
the Car & Driver. Can you?
Victor
Brad Waddell wrote:
>
> Lee, see this for the Car & Driver rebuttal:
>
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=619
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> Excellent tutorial! But leaves me with new questions:
> For E-meter applications, does the exact type of coax matter?
No. Coax is normally used for RF work, where the cable length can be an
appreciable fraction of a wavelength. In such cases, the impedance of
the cable matters. That's why you will see 50-ohm coax, 75-ohm coax,
etc. You have to use the right impedance coax to match the things you
are connecting.
But an EV is unlikely to have more than a 25-foot length of coax. This
would be 1/4 wavelength at 10 MHz. None of the devices in an EV are
likely to generate or be sensitive to RF of this high a frequency. Thus,
coax impedance doesn't matter. You can pick it based on wire gauge, much
like you do for any other wire.
>> - Run the shunt sensing wires thru a coaxial cable;
>> - Center conductor from shunt screw on load side to pin 3
>> on the E-meter (which the manual calls the orange wire).
>> - Outer conductor from shunt screw on load side to pin 2
>> on the E-meter (which the manual calls the green wire).
> Would the center conductor perhaps connect from the shunt screw on the
> *battery* side to pin 3 on the e-meter?
Oops; I didn't proofread it well enough. You're right; it should read as
you corrected it.
>> Be sure this ductway is *not* iron or steel, or if it is, that it has
>> some kind of gap between the pieces. You do NOT want a closed ferrous
>> metal loop or band around these wires. If there is, it forms the iron
>> core for a transformer!
> Ding-aling question here, but in commercial buildings the wiring
> is always run in metal enclosures... metal conduit, metal wireways,
> metal work boxes, metal breaker boxes, etc. Even the transformers
> are in metal boxes (on concrete pads outside). So how come this
> isn't a problem?
Because in essentially all cases, they run BOTH sides of the line
together in the same wireway. Currents are equal and opposite, so they
cancel.
In an EV, you'd create a nightmare scenario if you ran ONE wire to your
motor and ONE wire to your E-meter in the same steel conduit or wireway.
Transformer action would induce tremendous amounts of noise!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<Brad,
If would be FAR MORE beneficial if you'd send this link to
the Car & Driver. Can you?
Victor>>
This was an electronic reprint of a letter submitted to Car & Driver, they don't
need a link to show them the internet version of a letter they received as a
hardcopy!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan wrote:
Man, is it cold here in Utah! I've been dreaming of the day when the EV
is running and I get some instant heat from the ceramic heater.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried getting at the existing heater core
through the firewall. I think this would ultimately work out better for a
couple reasons:
<SNIP>
Ah, folks, why is there such an obsession with finding other ways to get to
the heater core? They are designed to be replaceable, and not by rocket
scientists, just regular guys with some technical training and access to
good instructions. The problem is far too many people are using those cheap
over the counter service manuals and they don't include enough of these
instructions. The Chilton manuals and so forth are too simple, too general
and too vague. Buy the real manual from the maker of your car or copy the
relevant pages from a library copy. I bought the Helm's manual for my
Civic. About $65 as I recall. Best investment I ever made.
Many cars have "tricks" to access the heater core. For example, on the
Fieros (at least the later ones) you can access the heater core through the
passenger side speaker opening on top of the dash. Without the proper
manual you would never even suspect this.
Converting a car to electric is a big job, but anything worth doing is
worth doing right. (Or in my case doing it over and over until it is
right) Don't hack up your car just to shortcut things. On my Honda I had
to pull the whole dash to access the heater core. It was actually far
easier than it looked. While it was out I was able to do a lot of wiring
that would have been all but impossible with it in place and clean out
100,000 miles worth of crud.
The whole secret of a good conversion is to plan ahead, have the proper
materials, tools, and manuals on hand, take your time, and end up with
something to be proud of. The other big secret is use this List. There
are a lot of sharp minds here, when you have a question just ask.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey this is serious. When someone parks in the EV spot what do you do? You
certainly don't take the law into your own hands. Giving a ticket is a way
to vent and let the offender know that someone is watching and has been
wronged. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: Tickets for parking in EV parking IS OFF TOPIC
> This is off-topic. We're finally cooling off on the off-topic political
> ranting.
> Please don't start it back up again. Just putting the word "EV" somewhere
> in the message doesn't suddenly make it on-topic.
>
> Tim
>
> -----------------
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Tickets for parking in EV parking
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:26:32 -0800
>
> Might it be possible to modify these for EV use. Lawrence Rhodes......
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:19:50 -0500
> From: RemyC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Printing out SUV tickets
>
> From:
> http://www.baaction.org/SUVticket
>
> Printing out the SUV ticket:
>
> The SUV ticket is in two files that are in PDF format.
>
> The first file is the front side of the ticket
> http://www.baaction.org/SUVticket/SUVfront.pdf
> and the second file is the backside of the ticket.
> http://www.baaction.org/SUVticket/SUVback.pdf
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> High-speed users-be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium
Internet
> Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lee,
Thank you for the data.
My ductway is made out of fiberglass and plastic. There are no motor or
controller wires in this wireway.
Each set of wires have there own plastic conduit for them. There are several
empty conduits I can used.
This tri-shield cable does have a twisted pair in it. This cable is
normally used for a transmitter and receivers that we used for sending a
radio frequency down through the earth which reads the dielectric difference
of the frequency received when it goes through layers of earth.
So, I thought I would test it out in the EV.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: e-meter interference?
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > I am going to install a Link-10 in my EV... I have to install the
> > shunt in rear compartment of car, so as to take off the battery
> > circuit, that is also fed by the battery charger. This distance
> > from controller to shunt is 15 feet. It will take 25 feet of cable
> > from the on dash meter to this shunt.
>
> Noise filtering is a big, complex issue. Ad hoc solutions sometimes
> work, but it helps a lot to understand what it going on. Then, you can
> take action and KNOW what you are doing. Let me see if I can provide a
> basic
> description of what is going on.
>
> Basic principles
> ----------------
>
> 1. The Faraday pail
>
> In the 1830's Michael Faraday wanted to build a battery. He placed a
> metal ice pail on some glass bottles, and sought to fill the bucket with
> the mysterious electric 'fluid' recently discovered. He ran a wire from
> his generator to the inside of the bucket, and cranked his generator a
> bit. Then he carefully lowered his voltmeter into the bucket to see
> where it contacted the electric 'fluid'. No voltage; the bucket was
> apparently empty.
>
> So he cranked some more, and measured again. Still nothing. In
> frustration, he cranked the generator as fast and as much as he could.
> STILL, when he lowered his voltmeter into the bucket, there was no
> indication, no charge.
>
> Where did it go? Puzzled, he reached to pick up the bucket and *WHAM*!
> He got a tremendous shock from the static electric charge!
>
> We now know that electrons are negatively charged, and repel each other.
> They can also move freely in conductors, like that metal pail. So, all
> the electrons moved to the OUTSIDE of the pail.
>
> This is referred to as Faraday's Ice Pail experiment. It proves that you
> can't have a charge inside a closed metal structure; it all flows to the
> outside. This leads to
>
> --- Principle One ---
>
> We can block (shield) a circuit from the effects of outside fields by
> putting it inside a closed metal container. It also works if you put a
> noise source inside a closed metal container; the noise can't get out.
>
> Practical containers have holes, but the principle still works as long
> as there aren't too many holes and they aren't too big. Faraday found
> that even something as skimpy as a wire bird cage could work. Thus, such
> a shield is called a Faraday Cage.
>
> So, you can shield something (like an E-meter or a motor) by putting it
> inside a (mostly) closed metal enclosure of some kind. Connect this
> sheld to whatever the circuit inside considers to be its ground
> reference.
>
> --- Principle Two ---
>
> The shield can be any shape; even a long piece of metal tubing, slid
> over a wire or wires. This is called shielded cable. The shield is NOT a
> current-carrying conductor; it is only there to provide a faraday cage
> around the wires inside. You only connect this shield to the circuit's
> ground return at ONE point. The rule is; if the current in the wire and
> its shield ARE NOT the same, then only connect the shield to ground at
> ONE END.
>
> Faraday was pretty smart; the Farad (the unit of capacitance) is named
> after him.
>
> 2. Induction
>
> Also in the 1830s, Michael Faraday and Joseph Henry worked independently
> to figure out the relationship between electric and magnetic fields.
> They knew that an electric current in a wire creates a magnetic field
> (that's how you make an electromagnet). But they also noticed that a
> *changing* current in a wire creates a *changing* magnetic field. And,
> it works in reverse; a *changing* magnetic field induces a *changing*
> current flow in a wire! This is how motors, generators, and transformers
> work.
>
> This became known as Faraday's Law. But he already had the Farad named
> after him, so they named the basic unit of inductance the Henry.
>
> --- Principle Three ---
>
> When you run two wires next to each other, a changing current in one
> will induce a changing current in the other. That means noise in one
> wire couples its noise to all the rest! So keep noisy wires far away
> from ones you want to be quiet (like motor wires and E-meter shunt
> wires).
>
> --- Principle Four ---
>
> But there's an interesting trick. If you can arrange things so you have
> two wires carrying EQUAL but OPPOSITE currents, then bundling these
> wires tightly together makes their magnetic fields CANCEL. They are less
> likely to pick up noise, and less likely to radiate noise to other
> wires.
>
> This is usually done by twisting the wires together (called a twisted
> pair). The closer and tighter they are, the better it works. Thus it
> works better with wires having thin insulation. Tighter twists usually
> work slightly better, by insuring that the average distance between each
> wire and any other conductors is the same.
>
> Remember, the wires must carry EQUAL and OPPOSITE currents; circuits
> where the current flowing out in one wire has no choice but to flow back
> in the other wire. You can't use the chassis as your return, or connect
> several loads to one wire. For example, you have two long wires running
> from your controller to the motor. The high power and arcing brushes
> create lots of noise! But the current going out one wire *has* to match
> the current coming back in the other wire. So twist or otherwise bundle
> them tightly together.
>
> --- Principle Five ---
>
> Suppose the wires are so big, or have so much insulation that you can't
> physically twist them or keep them close to each other. Or suppose you
> want the ultimate in noise filtering, and want the magnetic fields to
> PERFECTLY cancel. Then you use coaxial cable (coax).
>
> Coax has two conductors, which are about the same gauge. The shield is
> as heavy as the center conductor, so it can carry substantial current.
> This is different from shielded wire, which doesn't carry current in its
> shields so the shield is often very thin, sometimes nothing but tinfoil.
> coax also can have large spacings between the inner and outer
> conductors, so it can handle very high voltages.
>
> When the center and outer conductors carry the same current, coax has
> ZERO external magnetic field. It doesn't radiate any noise, and doesn't
> pick up any noise from external sources. As an example of how perfect
> the cancellation is, coax is the only way to connect a car radio to its
> antenna, to receive those sub-microvolt signals in the presence of so
> much electrical noise within the car itself.
>
> You could use 2/0 coax to block all your motor noise from escaping from
> the wiring; it exists but you don't want to know what it costs per foot!
> But you *can* use coax for signal and E-meter leads.
>
> So, taking all the above into acocunt, what do you do with that fancy
> triple-shielded cable? Here is how it would be used with an E-meter.
>
> - Treat the load side of the shunt as the negative return or
> 'ground' for the E-meter hookup.
> - Run the shunt sensing wires thru a coaxial cable;
> - Center conductor from shunt screw on load side to pin 3 on
> the E-meter (which the manual calls the orange wire).
> - Outer conductor from shunt screw on load side to pin 2 on
> the E-meter (which the manual calls the green wire).
> - Run the voltage sensing wires thru a coaxial cable (though a
> twisted pair would also be good enough if that' what you had);
> - Center conductor from prescaler output red to pin 4 on
> E-meter (which the manual calls the blue wire).
> - Outer conductor from prescaler output black to pin 1
> on the E-meter (which the manual calls the black wire).
> - Connect the shield that goes over all the above wires to the
> E-meter's 'return' at ONLY ONE END (either the load side of
> the shunt, or E-meter pin 1). Since things are crowded at
> the E-meter end, I'd connect the shield at the shunt end.
> - If you want to connect the third and outermost shield (I wouldn't),
> connect it to the real vehicle ground. I wouldn't connect this
> unless I was *sure* the cable has adequate insulation between
> this shield an all other conductors to withstand 100's of volts.
>
> --- Principle Six ---
>
> > This will have to run in 8 inch square cable and conduit ductway...
>
> Be sure this ductway is *not* iron or steel, or if it is, that it has
> some kind of gap between the pieces. You do NOT want a closed ferrous
> metal loop or band around these wires. If there is, it forms the iron
> core for a transformer!
>
> To understand this, recognize that a toroidal transformer is basically
> an iron 'donut' with a hole in the middle. Any wire or metal object that
> goes thru the hole in the middle counts as a 'turn'. Thus, any noise
> current on ONE wire going thru this hole will be inductively coupled
> into all the rest!
>
> Now, recognize that this iron donut could be pounded flat (like a piece
> of sheet metal with a hole in it), or stretched out long and thin (like
> a piece of pipe), and it will *still* function as a transformer core.
> Thus, don't run multiple wires thru a steel pipe (or any shape of closed
> tube), or thru a common hole in a piece of sheet steel. The only
> exception is when you WANT inductive coupling between them (for
> instance, there are transformers built this way).
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Non EV? I was just suggesting using this format for our purposes. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "meat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: Tickets for parking in EV parking
> Oh look, more non-EV crap on the list. I suppose I'll get blamed for
> this too.
>
> Your pal,
> Meat.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> >Might it be possible to modify these for EV use. Lawrence Rhodes......
> >Message: 6
> > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:19:50 -0500
> > From: RemyC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Printing out SUV tickets
> >
> >From:
> >http://www.baaction.org/SUVticket
> >
> >Printing out the SUV ticket:
> >
> >The SUV ticket is in two files that are in PDF format.
> >
> >The first file is the front side of the ticket
> >http://www.baaction.org/SUVticket/SUVfront.pdf
> >and the second file is the backside of the ticket.
> >http://www.baaction.org/SUVticket/SUVback.pdf
> >
> >Download both files to your computer by double clicking on the first file
> >and second file links. To print the files, double click on your
downloaded
> >files to open the Acrobat Reader application. Make sure to select "US
> >letter" as the page size in the page setup menu. Print the front side
first
> >and then put this printout back in your printer and print the back side
> >making sure to print on the blank side of the paper.
> >
> >Although the PDF files are in color, the printouts work with black and
> >white. Laser printers work the best. Color inkjet printers may blur the
> >white writing in the red box. Cut out the tickets and you are ready.
> >Alternatively, you can print out a "master" back and white ticket and
take
> >it to a copy shop and run off a bunch of copies on yellow or pink, or
other
> >ticket colors. You can even have them cut them and get a gum binding for
> >ticket booklets!
> >
> >A note about giving tickets:
> >
> >Remember that this ticket is to be informative, not antagonistic. Choose
> >your fellow citizen accordingly. For instance, gardeners, carpenters, and
> >others that need to use trucks for their work will not be very receptive
to
> >the ticket as they have a real need for their trucks. So if you see a
truck
> >loaded down with gardening or construction equipment, choose another for
> >your education campaign.
> >
> >I would also avoid the Honda CRV, Subaru Forester, and Toyota RAV4, in
that
> >these cars are cleaner and actually get pretty good gas mileage unlike
the
> >other larger SUVs. Most people do not like tickets so if you are asked
what
> >it is, tell them it is environmental information. Be polite, courteous
and
> >have fun!
> >
> >Questions:
> >SUV@ evcl.com
> >Bay Area Action
> >265 Moffett Boulevard
> >Mountain View CA 94043-4723 USA
> >+1 650 625.1994 Fax +1 650 625.1995
> >
> >Also go to:
> >http://www.moles.org/ProjectUnderground/campaigns/suv.shtml
> >1-800-497-1994 x 230
> >suvticket@ globalexchange.org
> >
> >"If broccoli were the number one export from the Middle East, we wouldn't
be
> >invading Iraq"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
I did not want even want to attempt in removing my heater core in the
ELECTRO I. I would have to remove the Air condition system ductwork, the EV
controller framework housing and controller.
I found it was best to just keep it in place, and used a electric hot water
heater, the large long ones that is used in diesel engines. They come in
stainless steel and 120 or 240 VAC. You can put 120 to 144 VDC to a 240 VAC
type.
A 2500 watt unit will instant heat 3 - 4 gallons of fluid to a boil!! I
used a contactor that is control by a Honeywell thermostate that has a
imersion senser in the fluid. These units also have there hi-limit
thermostates in them.
All the hoses, heaters, pumps are insulated with 2 inch diameter foam rubber
insulation that is normally used in air condition work.
The advantage in using a VAC unit that also can run on VDC is that I have a
transfer switch on the dash with is a high ampere heavy duty rocker switch
that can switch to commercial power while the car is plug in, or to a on
board invertor, or to the main battery pack.
Last week it was 25 below while the car was setting outside a caf�. I can
set a timer to preheat the inside of the car to 80 degrees. It snow about
another 6 inches of snow on all the other cars, while my was melted off.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: attacking the ceramic heater through the firewall
> Ryan wrote:
>
> >Man, is it cold here in Utah! I've been dreaming of the day when the EV
> >is running and I get some instant heat from the ceramic heater.
> >I'm wondering if anyone has tried getting at the existing heater core
> >through the firewall. I think this would ultimately work out better for
> >a
> >couple reasons:
>
>
> <SNIP>
>
>
> Ah, folks, why is there such an obsession with finding other ways to get
> to
> the heater core? They are designed to be replaceable, and not by rocket
> scientists, just regular guys with some technical training and access to
> good instructions. The problem is far too many people are using those
> cheap
> over the counter service manuals and they don't include enough of these
> instructions. The Chilton manuals and so forth are too simple, too
> general
> and too vague. Buy the real manual from the maker of your car or copy the
> relevant pages from a library copy. I bought the Helm's manual for my
> Civic. About $65 as I recall. Best investment I ever made.
>
> Many cars have "tricks" to access the heater core. For example, on the
> Fieros (at least the later ones) you can access the heater core through
> the
> passenger side speaker opening on top of the dash. Without the proper
> manual you would never even suspect this.
>
> Converting a car to electric is a big job, but anything worth doing is
> worth doing right. (Or in my case doing it over and over until it is
> right) Don't hack up your car just to shortcut things. On my Honda I had
> to pull the whole dash to access the heater core. It was actually far
> easier than it looked. While it was out I was able to do a lot of wiring
> that would have been all but impossible with it in place and clean out
> 100,000 miles worth of crud.
>
> The whole secret of a good conversion is to plan ahead, have the proper
> materials, tools, and manuals on hand, take your time, and end up with
> something to be proud of. The other big secret is use this List. There
> are a lot of sharp minds here, when you have a question just ask.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force (almost there)
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the batteries have storage latency if they are not used often. I had to
run about four cycles on them before they were back up to their original
capacity.
I am cycling the new NiZn in an unheated shed. The capacity went down during
the cold weather but not nearly as much as lead acid.
The symptom with the cold weather was the charges terminated early because
the end of voltage came up sooner than expected. The good news is that the
capacity came back when the temperature rose back into the forty's instead
of the twenty's. I have more data to post on the battery test but I need a
couple uninterrupted hours to process the data and post it on the website.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon "Sheer" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: NiZn cold weather experience
> > We've been having freezing and sub freezing weather here in Connecticut
> > and I've been eager to get some on-road experience in these temps with
> > my 10 NiZn batteries. At present I have 10 NiZn MB80's in the rear box,
> > and 10 Optima YT's in the front. Either (or both) strings can be
> > selected via contactors. My car has been sitting since before Christmas
> > and i returned from vacation only to suffer a blown fuse which took a
> > while to track down. I took a brief ride last night and a longer one
> > tonight and was NOT pleased with the results. The voltage sag is deeper
> > and quicker than in warm weather. Perhaps this is because the car has
> > been sitting. We shall see as colder weather is on the way. I'm
> > disappointed since I had expected NiZn (like its cousing NiCd) to be a
> > superior cold weather performer.
>
> I have seen very good cold weather performance from my batteries. Sag
> appeared to stay consistant or even go down some.
>
> However, Rich Rudman has notified me off-list some time ago of serious
> problems that appeared to occur in the new NiZns (like yours) when they
are
> left to sit for a while without cycling. I suspect that is what you're
> seeing. I would suggest you contact Rich and Joe Smalley, who have been
> experimenting with the 'new' NiZns, and see what they suggest. Rich, you
got
> your ears on?
>
> S.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good informative post.
It gets me to thinking how much range I might get on the Zappy with a NiZn
or NiCd battery. I know it really peps up with a Hawker.
I hope you install a good brain. It requires a good brain to tell the
difference between stupidity and courage.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: Wabbit Weport -- On the Woad!!!
> Nice charger. :^) Soon, I will build it a "brain." It already has a lot of
> heart. I wonder if I can install "courage" somehow?
>
>
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That sounds too high.
How long does it equalize?
Do you have an emeter?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Birenboim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: Trojan equalization current
> I just had my Zivan NG3 reprogrammed for Trojan 24TM.
> (Group 24 sized, 12v modules, flooded, C/20=85ah)
> The equalization current seems to be around 2-2.5a
> I don't have a real good way to measure it.
> (I estimate from the kill-a-watt, taking into account
> efficiencies and power factor...)
>
> I think its equalizaing, its when the light goes solid yellow.
>
> Is this high for 24TM? I thought people with the bug 6v
> modules equalize around 2A. The voltage sits around 187
> for a nominal 144v system (15.6 v/module...2.6 v/cell)
>
> I should be out there watching the charger now.
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My fiesta had two hose nipples sticking through the firewall and three
screws holding the heater core in the housing behind the glove box.
If you 1) removed the hoses from the nipples, 2) removed the glove box
housing, and 3) removed the three screws from the heater housing, then the
core came out about as easy as taking an 8 track tape out of a tape player.
(I guess it shows my age)
Not all cars are difficult to change.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: attacking the ceramic heater through the firewall
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Man, is it cold here in Utah! I've been dreaming of the day when the EV
> is running and I get some instant heat from the ceramic heater.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has tried getting at the existing heater core
> through the firewall. I think this would ultimately work out better for
> a couple reasons:
>
> 1) You could get at it again without having to rip the dash apart
> 2) You wouldn't have to rip the dash apart in the first place
> 3) Similiar to number 1, you'd have a permanent access panel
>
> I'm interested to see what the consensus is on this idea.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
--- End Message ---
