EV Digest 3357
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Tevan part and corporate idiocy
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: XCD install update, questions and a doh!
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: High Voltage DC/DC
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Edan 100Ah cells & New ethanol reformer
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: LED tail lights
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: XCD install update, questions and a doh!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) S10 report (was: Which Hawker battery in Electricar Dolphin systems?)
by "Scott Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: XCD install update, questions and a doh!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: S10 report (was: Which Hawker battery in Electricar Dolphin systems?)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100
battery
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100 battery
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100 battery
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100 battery, TS li-ion
comment heard
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: S10 report (was: Which Hawker battery in Electricar Dolphin systems?)
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: S10 report (was: Which Hawker battery in Electricar Dolphin systems?)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) OT but it has 'lectric motors
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) President gets converted to EVs
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Edan 100Ah cells & New ethanol reformer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: S10 report (was: Which Hawker battery in Electricar Dolphin systems?)
by "Scott Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Chrome and stuff
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) US Electricar S10 vacuum pressure sensor
by "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
> They also have hundreds of Chrysler Epics with AC
> drives and NiMh battery packs that had 120mile range,
> frying in the AZ desert awaiting their certain
> unglorius death.
What's even worse, you can bet that they will write off all the costs
associated with these EVs as an R&D expense, to reduce their income
taxes.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 07:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Question.
Has anyone ever used the side post terminal on EV's?
John Bryan might want to chime in here, and describe how he fastened
his modular chargers to his individual Optimas via their side
terminals, while using the top terminals for traction power.
Or, now he might not need to!
There's a picture of batteries in the front of his car in the EV album
that just barely shows the side terminal connections.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/034c.jpg
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> They normally go to 400 VDC.
> Yes, we have run them up to 450 VDC.
>
> The input negative and the output negative are connected together
> internally.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
The peak safeties are set to 450 VDC.
And have been since about unit 30. We are on unit 107 as of today's
build up.
We have one that was set to 480. It has not come back, So I did
something right!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> Rich,
> Sounds like you need one of Ameteks blowers.
> We were testing one today that puts out
> 1300 CFM at 20 inches of H2O.
> It's only 14 inches in diameter and 5" thick
> not including the 3HP 230Vac drive motor at
> 9,000 RPM.
> Rod
> Serious air
>
That's more than my buddie's SuperFlow 110 Flow Bench!!!
I rather boil water, or recycle the watts.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
The kW numbers will probably be a bit lower for real world use, since
the V will drop at high current.
I don't know how much, but at the nominal current (1.5C) it will be a
bit, and at the max current (5C) it will be a lot.
(I vaguely recall the GP team using about 8V as the voltage for a 12V
lead batt at max current)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Lightning Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 14 February 2004 2:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Edan 100Ah cells & New ethanol reformer
You know how I enjoy crunching numbers, so here goes...
A string of 100 cells = 360v @100Ah = 36kWh, 310kg (683 lbs), $17,500.
$486/kWh! 116wh/kg! 54kW nominal, 180kW max. (2'*8.5"*3'9") 6.38ft^3
So it looks like their density is less than the 'gold standard' t-zero
at 170 Wh/kg (roughly), but cheaper at $486/kWh which is reasonable!
They look more capable in the power area, has anyone tested any yet?
How about a string of 7*12Ah cells for my 24v scooters?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 302Wh 3kg (6.6 lbs) ?$145
These would be great on a motorcycle!
So, is anyone ordering yet?
L8r
Ryan
PS. A new development in FuelCells, an ethanol reformer, still to large
for your car, and a lot of energy to produce the corn and ethanol...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/02/13/hydrogen.reactors.ap/index.ht
ml
>>umm... something odd about those 100AH cells when I looked at their
site:
>>www.edan.com.tw/Product-2002515153759.html..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
More on my LED tail lights:
I ordered one of the Jameco LED scrolling message displays
(www.jameco.com #200310, $24.95). It arrived, and I have it assembled
and working.
It is a little single-sided PC board about 2"x3", with a 5x7 matrix of
35 red LEDs and a PIC micro preprogrammed to form a tiny scrolling
message display. My thought was that it might be fun to use them (or
something like them) for taillights or side marker lights that can
display graphics or messages.
The quality is adequate. The directions are horrible -- don't try this
kit unless you consider yourself a very knowledgeable electronics
enthusiast. You have to be good enough to recognize resistors,
capacitors, diodes etc. on sight, read their values, and figure out
where they go on the board from just the silkscreen.
No schematic is supplied, so I traced it out myself. (Let me know if you
need a copy.) PIC 16C58A micro, with RC oscillator. 78L05 voltage
regulator. 3 pushbutton switches to program it. The LEDs are wired
directly to the PIC's pins in a 5x7 matrix. The 5 rows each have a 330
ohm current limiting resistor, so peak LED current is only about 5ma.
The LEDs are multiplexed 5 at once, 1/7th of the time, so average LED
current is about 5/7th ma. This is fine indoors, but invisible in direct
sun.
Power consumption is 5ma with all LEDs off, 32ma with all LEDs on. The
PIC specifies VDD(max)=50ma; with 5 LEDs on at once, that means the most
you can get is 10ma per LED. I changed the current limiting resistors
from 330 to 150 ohms, and used the yellow ultrabright LEDs I got from
Electronic Goldmine. This makes the display barely visible in sunlight,
but acceptable for side marker lights at night. Driver transistors would
need to be added to get 20ma average per LED.
The software is very primitive. It provides 0-9, A-Z, a dozen
punctuation symbols, left and right arrows, a heart, all on, and all
off. All characters use a 3x5 matrix, which is very coarse and hard to
read. Being 7 LEDs wide, it can display two characters side-by-side with
a blank row between them. It can hold up to 16 characters, which it
scrolls from right to left at a fixed rate. To program it, you press the
Set button, then use the Up and Down buttons to select the character,
then press Set again. Repeat for each subsequent character. The 16
character message is held in RAM, so it forgets it if power is turned
off.
Well, it's fun, but not very useful as-is. But I can see making a
version for a car taillight that lets you store your own messages or
patterns, and can be programmed serially over the power wires.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
>
> Ok, it's probably the same die in either the APT or IXYS part. Just
> that APT probably costs 2X as much if it's like the stuff I priced last
> week. So what are you driving at?
>
> Seth
>
> AKA "the cynic"
> "the other Seth"
> "I lost on eBay too"
> "Lee Hart ASCII art fan club member #47"
> On Feb 13, 2004, at 6:08 PM, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
Umm lets see $21.98 each, Quantity 10.
What's your problem???
The only one I have seen from Ixys was blown.
The APTs seam hard to hurt. I'll stick with them.
The Sot 227 package is the only descrete package that doen't need
isolation and can meet it's part die power specs.
I did LEARN something from the Failed T-Rex lessons.
Otmar runs his mounting copper base HOT, that's the only way to get a
To-247 or 264 package to meet specs. The To-264 parts are about 1/2 the
price of the Sot-227, and you have to isolate the mounting plane. I have
Isolation, and a larger footprint, at more cost. Both Otmar and I use a
simple greased junction as the primary thermal interface. THIS is the
the primary interface deficientcy that the T-Rex, Raptors did NOT do.
DCP used the best T-ply Thermagon he could find. It's still two powers
of magnitude more Rtheta drop than a bolt and good Grease.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since we are on the subject of US Elecctricar products...
Two weeks ago I went to Phoenix to inspect the US Electricar vehicles
that SRP had for sale. Spent 6 hours going through all five
vehicles, originally was going to purchase a Prizm but ended up
deciding in favor of a truck since I felt the battery tray could be
modified more easily for different style batteries. Didn't want to
be enslaved to hawkers.
With the Prism you are locked into the Hawker batteries. There are
cheap "surplus" batteries available; I have met Eric at SurplusEv in
person, nice guy and of course his help to our ev community in terms
of cheap replacement batteries is invaluable. Else, it's ~$100 per
battery, which is basically a $5k pack cost. You would be better off
buying a different chemistry for a little more, methinks. Lotsa work
though.
I bought the best S10 that SRP had for sale and just finished
registering it yesterday in California. Sheesh, registration fees
have gone up almost 3x what they used to be. (the rollback on taxes
only applies to new cars apparently)
Removed the bed to inspect the pack last weekend to see what could be
seen. One dead cell out of 52 isn't a bad deal, though I don't know
how used the pack is, or how much life is left. The truck drives
well, though there are some issues. Of course, it used to be a fleet
vehicle, so that is to be expected I suppose. They didn't use the
vehicles right, left them charged all the time rather than using the
range.
Comparing it to the Jet Electrica 007 that I have is interesting.
The Electrica goes farther (70 miles range with 20 US145's- today I
have over 60 miles on it since last charge) and faster (75MPH vs 70)
but isn't as big either. Regen is a very nice item to have, both in
terms of "feel good" and vehicle control. Drivers in California are
not known for their easygoing driving habits, especially when you
are "only" doing 75 in the carpool lane- unless you are 2 feet from
the person in front of you it just isn't fast enough... But I
digress.
Short version- the S10 has shorter range, lower top speed, slow
charging and less efficiency but looks nice. The 007 is not as
flashy, you have to shift gears, but batteries are cheap to replace
and it is easy for the home mechanic to repair.
The S10 is supposed to have heat (it's broken right now) and A/C
(haven't tried it yet). It is a more modern looking vehicle (ie, I
could feasibly pick up a date in it). Not as efficient, the truck is
enormous. But it has all sorts of cargo space, if not load
capacity. Bringing home plywood sheets or insulation should be much
easier now!
Charging. The S10's built in charger takes forever to charge on
120vac. Like 15 hours from zero. 208vac is faster, but it requires
a stepdown transformer at home (240vac). I would love to use my
PFC20, but without a set of regulators I don't want to try it. So,
charging is currently slow and a sticking point with me.
The cutoff switch for the vacuum on the brakes isn't operating. The
pump runs all the time. At first I figured it was because the vacuum
lines were cracked. Replaced two of them, now it draws 26" vacuum
but still doesn't shut off. I'll try replacing the switch, unless
someone else has a bright idea.
I've rambled long enough...
Scott
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> I could be incorrect, but I believe IXYS and
> APT are just packaging solutions and buy their
> silicon die from the same or similar source?
> I'm pretty sure neither company has their
> own fab houses (they probably buy from the
> same fab house in Taiwan or Korea)
> Rod
That's Sacralige!!
It's like a bar fight over the Chevy and Ford Pickup outside a Bar on
Friday night.
There are usually subtile and serious diffences between the Vendor Fab
layup.
Since the almost the same thing they are shooting for the same market,
Hence very close to the same device.
If you have better market gossip, lets hear it!!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you connected the vacuum pump to the brake light switch, it would run
whenever you have your foot on the brake. It might not be the best solution,
but it beats having it run ALL the time.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:15 PM
Subject: S10 report (was: Which Hawker battery in Electricar Dolphin
systems?)
> The cutoff switch for the vacuum on the brakes isn't operating. The
> pump runs all the time. At first I figured it was because the vacuum
> lines were cracked. Replaced two of them, now it draws 26" vacuum
> but still doesn't shut off. I'll try replacing the switch, unless
> someone else has a bright idea.
>
>
> I've rambled long enough...
> Scott
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:24 PM 2/13/04, you wrote:
"Wow" indeed! The report does talk about similar symptoms to what I saw,
and a couple of the photos could easily be of batteries in my old pack
(little volvano shaped holes in the sides).
Here are some pictures of the more severely damages modules in my old pack:
http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm/nicadboom.html
Ralph
I looked at your pictures once again. Now that I have installed
these batteries myself, I noticed that you didn't install the required
water cooling system on your battery pack. This is pretty likely to be the
reason that you burned up some batteries.
I can relate to the difficulty of installing the cooling system
for these batteries. I spent many weekends doing the plumbing. I spent
several more weekends finding and fixing leaks. In a nutshell, installing
the cooling system was a major pain in the butt.
The reason I made the effort, however, is that these batteries
have no hope of surviving without the cooling system. The water jackets
actually insulate the batteries if you don't run water through them,
greatly exacerbating the problem. If, on top of not cooling them, you were
typically running the batteries at over the rated continuous discharge,
they were doomed.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yikes! This is pretty unsettling. Ralph Merwin has already commented on
how similar the damage looks to what he experienced, so I won't dwell on
that further.
FWIW, Axel Krause of Brusa has been running 100MRE modules in his Evergreen
Mini since the mid 1990s (1997?), and as far as I know has experienced no
catastrophic failures. He limits current to 250 amps and uses a nonstandard
charging algorithm. I suspect that his average running current is quite
low, as the Evergreen is a tiny, light car and he's running 180 volts' worth
of modules.
I haven't seen this problem with mine, but then I don't have anything like
the miles that others have on these modules. Certainly it's something all
of us running older STM5s should be on the lookout for. One possible course
of action would be to contact Saft to inquire about rebuilding of the
modules under the new specs. Certainly that would be cheaper than outright
replacement. Other than that, holding current quite low seems like the only
alternative. Perhaps someone knows what else might preserve the separators
in normal service.
My guess is that this affects only the MR / MRE reduced maintenance modules,
not the earlier boilers. Any further info about that matter would be
helpful.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It
eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation.
-- Johnny Hart
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph's were the air cooled modules and he had them installed according to
spec. with the proper spacing and airflow between modules. They are the
same as yours without the outside plastic cover on the sides to hold in the
coolant.
damon
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100
battery
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:14:44 -0700
At 04:24 PM 2/13/04, you wrote:
"Wow" indeed! The report does talk about similar symptoms to what I saw,
and a couple of the photos could easily be of batteries in my old pack
(little volvano shaped holes in the sides).
Here are some pictures of the more severely damages modules in my old
pack:
http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm/nicadboom.html
Ralph
I looked at your pictures once again. Now that I have installed
these batteries myself, I noticed that you didn't install the required
water cooling system on your battery pack. This is pretty likely to be the
reason that you burned up some batteries.
I can relate to the difficulty of installing the cooling system
for these batteries. I spent many weekends doing the plumbing. I spent
several more weekends finding and fixing leaks. In a nutshell, installing
the cooling system was a major pain in the butt.
The reason I made the effort, however, is that these batteries
have no hope of surviving without the cooling system. The water jackets
actually insulate the batteries if you don't run water through them,
greatly exacerbating the problem. If, on top of not cooling them, you were
typically running the batteries at over the rated continuous discharge,
they were doomed.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up
Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> I looked at your pictures once again. Now that I have installed
> these batteries myself, I noticed that you didn't install the required
> water cooling system on your battery pack. This is pretty likely to be the
> reason that you burned up some batteries.
As Damon pointed out, these were the air-cooled modles. They had
1/2" spacers between rows and a bit more on the ends of the rows.
Fans pulled air through the rows.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm told than:
Until oct 1999 the STM5-100RE production line make few bad batteries which
pass the quality control and were sold, problem has been solved since then
and better 2004 modules have new separators for longer cycle life yet
(now more than 1500 cycle 80%DOD dixit Saft)
Force cars problems are likely to be caused by bad modules, not too much/too
long high current like i read here.
Individual monitoring voltage would solve the problem, bad modules become
progressively down the overs (3,5 to 5V) before boiling, cracking and
finally knocking down the pack performance quickly.
I had bad feedback about Thundersky "quality" from a friend involved in EV,
he went back recently from China, the comment was: you pay what you get,
nothing more. They are definitely low current li-ion cells.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Report: Investigation of breakdown of the SAFT STM5-100 battery
> Yikes! This is pretty unsettling. Ralph Merwin has already commented on
> how similar the damage looks to what he experienced, so I won't dwell on
> that further.
>
> FWIW, Axel Krause of Brusa has been running 100MRE modules in his
Evergreen
> Mini since the mid 1990s (1997?), and as far as I know has experienced no
> catastrophic failures. He limits current to 250 amps and uses a
nonstandard
> charging algorithm. I suspect that his average running current is quite
> low, as the Evergreen is a tiny, light car and he's running 180 volts'
worth
> of modules.
>
> I haven't seen this problem with mine, but then I don't have anything like
> the miles that others have on these modules. Certainly it's something all
> of us running older STM5s should be on the lookout for. One possible
course
> of action would be to contact Saft to inquire about rebuilding of the
> modules under the new specs. Certainly that would be cheaper than
outright
> replacement. Other than that, holding current quite low seems like the
only
> alternative. Perhaps someone knows what else might preserve the
separators
> in normal service.
>
> My guess is that this affects only the MR / MRE reduced maintenance
modules,
> not the earlier boilers. Any further info about that matter would be
> helpful.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It
> eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
> business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation.
>
> -- Johnny Hart
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Removed the bed to inspect the pack last weekend to see what could be
seen. One dead cell out of 52 isn't a bad deal, though I don't know
how used the pack is, or how much life is left. The truck drives
well, though there are some issues. Of course, it used to be a fleet
vehicle, so that is to be expected I suppose. They didn't use the
vehicles right, left them charged all the time rather than using the
range.
Not bad. I'll have to think about getting one of these now that we're
junking the minivan. How did the other ones look?
Comparing it to the Jet Electrica 007 that I have is interesting.
The Electrica goes farther (70 miles range with 20 US145's- today I
have over 60 miles on it since last charge) and faster (75MPH vs 70)
but isn't as big either. Regen is a very nice item to have, both in
terms of "feel good" and vehicle control. Drivers in California are
not known for their easygoing driving habits, especially when you
are "only" doing 75 in the carpool lane- unless you are 2 feet from
the person in front of you it just isn't fast enough... But I
digress.
60 miles on oddball batteries is fantastic range IMHO. It's also a much
bigger auto, and you don't have to worry about watering the batteries, etc.
The cutoff switch for the vacuum on the brakes isn't operating. The
pump runs all the time. At first I figured it was because the vacuum
lines were cracked. Replaced two of them, now it draws 26" vacuum
but still doesn't shut off. I'll try replacing the switch, unless
someone else has a bright idea.
Yeah, I have this problem too. The switch is wired directly to the pump
motor without benefit of a relay. Thus the vacuum switch points stick
closed and open from time to time. On mine, when it does switch it never
keeps *quite* enough vacuum which led to a scary stop while waiting for
it to "pump up"
I leave my pump on all the time while I figure this out.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich-
OK, I was wondering if you had something against IXYS in particular. If
you were to evaluate IXYS, you might be leased by the price. But you
have something that works and that's important.
A live heatsink/bus bar that is "hot" is very"cool". I will be chicken
and take isolation...
Seth
"Lee Hart ASCII art fan club member #47"
On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:14 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Seth wrote:
Ok, it's probably the same die in either the APT or IXYS part. Just
that APT probably costs 2X as much if it's like the stuff I priced
last
week. So what are you driving at?
Seth
AKA "the cynic"
"the other Seth"
"I lost on eBay too"
"Lee Hart ASCII art fan club member #47"
On Feb 13, 2004, at 6:08 PM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Umm lets see $21.98 each, Quantity 10.
What's your problem???
The only one I have seen from Ixys was blown.
The APTs seam hard to hurt. I'll stick with them.
The Sot 227 package is the only descrete package that doen't need
isolation and can meet it's part die power specs.
I did LEARN something from the Failed T-Rex lessons.
Otmar runs his mounting copper base HOT, that's the only way to get a
To-247 or 264 package to meet specs. The To-264 parts are about 1/2 the
price of the Sot-227, and you have to isolate the mounting plane. I
have
Isolation, and a larger footprint, at more cost. Both Otmar and I use a
simple greased junction as the primary thermal interface. THIS is the
the primary interface deficientcy that the T-Rex, Raptors did NOT do.
DCP used the best T-ply Thermagon he could find. It's still two powers
of magnitude more Rtheta drop than a bolt and good Grease.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's what the APT rep told me. At least for CoolMOS, everyone uses
Infineon dies. Infineon won't package ISOTOP CoolMOS, though.
Tastes great!... Less Filling!
AKA
"the other Seth"
On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:19 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Rod Hower wrote:
I could be incorrect, but I believe IXYS and
APT are just packaging solutions and buy their
silicon die from the same or similar source?
I'm pretty sure neither company has their
own fab houses (they probably buy from the
same fab house in Taiwan or Korea)
Rod
That's Sacralige!!
It's like a bar fight over the Chevy and Ford Pickup outside a Bar on
Friday night.
There are usually subtile and serious diffences between the Vendor Fab
layup.
Since the almost the same thing they are shooting for the same market,
Hence very close to the same device.
If you have better market gossip, lets hear it!!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations and welcome to the family!
Seth
AKA
"the other Seth"
On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:15 AM, Scott Davis wrote:
Since we are on the subject of US Elecctricar products...
Two weeks ago I went to Phoenix to inspect the US Electricar vehicles
that SRP had for sale. Spent 6 hours going through all five
vehicles, originally was going to purchase a Prizm but ended up
deciding in favor of a truck since I felt the battery tray could be
modified more easily for different style batteries. Didn't want to
be enslaved to hawkers.
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solar powered trash compactor to reduce garbage truck trips...
http://www.seahorsepower.com/products.html
Seth
AKA
"the other Seth"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to clear thinks up,
I prefer the Ford.
Rod
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> > I could be incorrect, but I believe IXYS and
> > APT are just packaging solutions and buy their
> > silicon die from the same or similar source?
> > I'm pretty sure neither company has their
> > own fab houses (they probably buy from the
> > same fab house in Taiwan or Korea)
> > Rod
>
> That's Sacralige!!
> It's like a bar fight over the Chevy and Ford
> Pickup outside a Bar on
> Friday night.
> There are usually subtile and serious diffences
> between the Vendor Fab
> layup.
>
> Since the almost the same thing they are shooting
> for the same market,
> Hence very close to the same device.
>
> If you have better market gossip, lets hear it!!!
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.g8seaisland.com/en/index.cfm
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<The kW numbers will probably be a bit lower for real world use, since
the V will drop at high current.
I don't know how much, but at the nominal current (1.5C) it will be a
bit, and at the max current (5C) it will be a lot.
(I vaguely recall the GP team using about 8V as the voltage for a 12V
lead batt at max current)>>
If they have an internal resistance of 2mOhms as listed on their site, that's a
1.0V drop per cell at 500A - output probably greatly effected by state of
charge, since they range from 4.2V down to 3.0V.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not bad. I'll have to think about getting one of these now that we're junking the
minivan. How did the other ones look?
S10 or Prizm?
60 miles on oddball batteries is fantastic range IMHO. It's also a much bigger auto,
and you don't have to worry about watering the batteries, etc.
Actually, it was >60 miles on US145's in the old Jet Electrica. The truck
didn't get anywhere near that range. Watering the batteries is quite easy and takes
very little time.
Yeah, I have this problem too. The switch is wired directly to the pump motor without
benefit of a relay. Thus the vacuum switch points stick closed and open from time to
time. On mine, when it does switch it never keeps *quite* enough vacuum which led to a
scary stop while waiting for it to "pump up"
I'm figuring on putting a relay in line. Not sure if I can save the switch,
but will try to knock it loose...
I leave my pump on all the time while I figure this out.
Can't stand the noise, myself.
Scott
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, I use Magnacraft relays for switching and a White-Rodgers relay for
the main contactor, all from electricscooting.com. This makes for a very
low cost contactor controller. The White-Rodgers is a shiny metal can with
a black top that could have artistic possibilities. The Magnacrafts are
just open industrial relays. I tend to want to cover them up with side
covers, but don't let me discourage your creativity! People use many
different kinds of contactors. Maybe someone else on the list know of one
with aesthetic possibilities?
I use an asymmetrical 48v pack connected as shown below. If you want more
details, let me know. Mark T.
(View with fixed width font)
____
/ \
/ \ \
_____| Motor |____ \__
| \ / |
| \____/ Safety |
| Disconnect |
| --- Main
| --- Contactor
| | | |
|--||----||||------------|
| | | | |
| R5 | 24v |
| | ---
| |---------||---| --- R4
| | |
| R6 | |
| | | |
|--||-----||-------------|
| | | |
| R1 | 12v |
| | ---
| |---------||---| --- R2
| | |
| R3 | |
| | | |
|---------||-------------|
|
12v
Switch logic Batteries
In use
Speed R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 Volts 12v 12v 24v disconnect
0 0 x
1 x x x 12 x x x
2 x x x 24 x x x x
3 x x x 36 x x x x
4 x x 48 x x x x
Charging x x x 24 x x x
----- Original Message -----
From: "JD & Heather" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Chrome and stuff
> I will soon start building the El Chopper and had a (possibly) neat
> idea when I read the e-mail below. Harleys are an old school kind of
> bike and I guess contactor controllers would fall into the same
> category. Are there any sort of contactors that look good in an
> industrial age, clockwork kind of way? Is it possible to nickel plate or
> polish them (except for the contact points of course)? The contactors
> would be exposed and I think it would have the potential to look kind of
> neat. Not exactly rolling science experiment, but more like the innards
> of a clock. Plus, I assume a contactor controllor would be cheaper and
> could get me on the road a bit quicker. I'll be using either the Scott
> motor or the ADC 5.5" Ideas? Advice?
>
> John David
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject:
> Re: AllTrax Controller Experienc
> From:
> "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:
> Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:58:11 -0600
>
> To:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> Damon, I have no Altrax experience, but that will probably be the next
step
> also on my 48 V motorcycle. (you're my inspiration . I think 200A is
> about right for a snappy start. I currently have a 12/24/36/48v contactor
> controller. Starting at 24 volts gives a 210 A peak. My sprocket ratio
is
> 16/38. Top speed at 48v is 50 mph (195A). I only use 12v for puttering
> around in parking lots.
>
> Is there some kind of ramp limit that you can adjust on the Curtis? Mark
T.
>
>
> >> I think that to get the off the line performance that I
> >> want I will need to be able to hit the motor with about 200 amps. My
> >
> >
> Curtis
>
> >> seems to want to work it's way slowly up to 100 then 150 then 200 amps.
> >> Once it is at about 150 and I am rolling at about 20 mph I like the way
it
> >> pulls, it just takes too much time to get there. I'm assuming that the
> >> Alltrax will give me all this current as soon as I tell it to go. Is
this
> >> correct?
> >>
> >> I know I could change my gearing, but that cuts into my top end too
much.
> >
> >
> I
>
> >> want to be quick, fast and strong and all on only 48 volts. The only
way
> >
> >
> I
>
> > can see to get all this is with a very stout controller.
> >
> > thanks
> > damon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was also annoyed at the noisy brake pump always running. I hunted down the
manufacturer of the pressure switch on the internet and got the specs.
I turns out that the pressure switch is only rated at 1A. Since the pump
uses considerably more than this, I added a garden variety Radio Shack
automotive relay.
The pressure switch now switches the relay, and the relay the pump motor.
A few good taps with rubber hammer unstuck the vacuum pump switch, and now
it works just fine!
Failing that, the manufacturer emailed me the contact info for a local
distributer for their part. However, the old part is working just fine.
I can try to find my notes if you can't find them. It's been a few years.
However, my S10 has a ground fault again that prevents it from being driven,
and I decided to put it on hold and do my Insight conversion with more
reliable components for now. I plan on moving the high voltage off the
Dolphin motor controller board before it self-destructs--the printed circuit
tolerances and other clearances are inadequate for 405V. I also will replace
the charger with a PFC50. My S10 also carries a heavy isolation transformer
(which will still be too small for the PFC50).
Gary
> The cutoff switch for the vacuum on the brakes isn't operating. The
> pump runs all the time. At first I figured it was because the vacuum
> lines were cracked. Replaced two of them, now it draws 26" vacuum
> but still doesn't shut off. I'll try replacing the switch, unless
> someone else has a bright idea.
--- End Message ---
