EV Digest 3361
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric Moped @ Pep Boys
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Robert Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Dyno
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Dyno
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT, Re: Generator engine
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Twike Alternatives & APEC Power 04'
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Dyno equipment WAS: Carbon pile? and blowers
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: death of a DCP raptor
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Charger efficiency
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Unsubscribe
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Anyone remember USCAR?
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Carbon pile?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cheap magnachargers on eBay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Panasonic Prizmatic batteries
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Cheap magnachargers on eBay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Cheap magnachargers on eBay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Finally got the 3wheeler registered as a moped.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, there's another approach you could take. Get TWO of the same
motors, and couple them up. Run one as a motor and the other as a
generator. Calibrate them, so you know their characteristics.
Once you know their curves, you can change the driving motor, and
measure the results with the 'control' generator.
There is an even trickier trick; one that I've used for small motors and
would like to play with sometime with larger motors. Basically, you set
up a controller to rapidly switch the machine between motor and
generator action. No load on the shaft at all -- just a tachometer! It
depends on the symmetrical relationship between motor and generator
operation.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just saw a couple really nifty electric bikes at Pep Boys, wondered
if anyone else had seen them?<snip>
Anyone else see or have any feedback on these?
We've been talking about them in the Zappy forum at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zappy
Quality is supposed to be pretty decent for Chinese stuff, although no
word yet on build consistancy from unit to unit or return rates. I
haven't heard anything about an AC hub motor. I think this is all DC
stuff, but I could be mistaken.
Jerome has got one for testing at:
http://electric-scooter-world.com
and he says a full write-up is forthcoming.
-Ken Trough
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Anybody know of nifty ways to measure the torque on a shaft without
using strain gages on the motor mounting base? There are some nifty
systems that transmit the torque data wireless to a nearby sensor, So
you don't have to touch the saft or motor, and you still get good data.
Disclaimer: you know a lot more about motors than I do.
Don't you still need something to touch the shaft? Torque is how hard
the shaft twists, and to know that, you need to have something try to
resist the twisting.
Other people have already mentioned attaching a lever to the shaft, and
picking a distance away from the shaft and measuring how many pounds
are exerted on a scale at that distance. 1000 ft/lbs would be a
one-pound force exerted from a 1000 foot long lever, or more usefully,
1000 pounds of force from a one-foot lever, 500 pounds from a two foot
lever, etc. This involves putting a lever on the shaft and stalling
the motor.
I suppose you could attach a heavy flywheel to the motor shaft and
measure how long it takes to get it spun up to a particular RPM. In
this case the force that resists the twist is the inertia of the
flywheel, which depends on its mass and radius. (No, I don't have a
formula, sorry.)
I understand that a series-wound DC motor produces maximum torque at
zero RPMs, which means that as RPM increases, the torque falls off.
The lever-and-scale system would always be measuring torque at the zero
RPM point.
If you want to know the torque at different RPMs, the flywheel can tell
you. In fact, given the curve of RPM vs. time, a little calculus
(which I also don't have, sorry) should tell you the torque at every
RPM value.
I am looking for a complete system, not some engineering required, I
have enough to build and design!
Given an RPM sensor (which you will already have), a flywheel of known
weight and diameter, a computer, and a certain amount of math, you
should be able to derive torque information without much extra
engineering.
Am I correct? It seems pretty likely that I got something wrong in the
above message.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland;
Just set it up as an excel file.
Bob
At 02:45 PM 2/16/04 -0700, Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Rich,
There is a engineering calculation as:
1 ftlb per sec = 1.356 watts
(meaning 1 ftlb at 60 RPM takes 1.356 watts of energy)
Also - FTLBS = (HP x 5252)/RPM
(HP is not the HP rating of motor, it is the results of Volts time
Amperage divided by 746)
After you run your load test to find out what the Voltage, Amperage and RPM,
you just could calculated each time.
If you or someone in your are is good in computer programming, you can enter
the values and the torque values will be read out.
I haven't set up my PC in computer programming lanquage because I can used
my old machine lanquage computer to do these calculations.
Here is a example of the program in MicroSoft Basic 7.0 (Easy to read for
this example)
10 scnclr:print
20 FB=0 : Rem Foot pounds
30 WT=0 : Rem Watts
40 HP=0 : Rem Horsepower
50 RPM=0: Rem Rotation Speed
60 AMP=0: Rem Ampere
70 VT=0 : Rem Voltage
80 PRINT "TORQUE DATA":PRINT
90 INPUT "ENTER AMPERE";AMP:PRINT
100 INPUT "ENTER VOLTAGE";VT:PRINT
110 INPUT "ENTER RPM";RPM:PRINT
120 HP=(AMP x VT)/746
130 FB=(HP x 5252)/RPM
140 PRINT "THE TORQUE IS "FB" AT "HP" HP AT "RPM" RPM"
150 PRINT
160 PRINT "PRESS ANY KEY FOR ANOTHER CALCULATION OR PRESS E TO END."
170 IF A$="E" THEN GOTO 190
180 IF A$<>"E" THEN GOTO 10
190 PRINT
200 PRINT "END PROGRAM": SCNCLR
If you can find someone that can convert this to fit your computer, which
may accept C+ or C++ language.
When you enter the voltage, ampere and rpm values, the torque value will be
calculated and give you a readout.
Also there are electronic interface equipment that can input this data go
give a read out. One company is Tektronix that has this equipment.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
> David Chapman wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
> >
> > > Rod Hower wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Rich,
> > > > Sounds like you need one of Ameteks blowers.
> > > > We were testing one today that puts out
> > > > 1300 CFM at 20 inches of H2O.
> > > > It's only 14 inches in diameter and 5" thick
> > > > not including the 3HP 230Vac drive motor at
> > > > 9,000 RPM.
> > > > Rod
> > > > Serious air
> > > >
> > > That's more than my buddie's SuperFlow 110 Flow Bench!!!
> > > I rather boil water, or recycle the watts.
> >
> > Rich, why not hook the blower in series with the load? That way you can
> > keep
> > your cool and not "waste" watts? DC.
>
> In series??? NOT a chance since the load is going up into the Multi
> 100kw range, In paralel maybe.
>
> But most of my power will recirculate back into the Batteries. Some of
> course will have to make some Nichrome glow, because I need the heat and
> What's a Dyno without some glowing melting parts???
> I DID get to it all bolted down and put together yesterday. And
> actually Got to load down a motor. 12 volts is boring....Adjustable
> brushes with some real world loading is rather eye opening. I can adjust
> the power consumed by over %500 with just brush movment. I just got the
> UPS box for today, It had the .107 ohm @ 170 amp braking power resistors
> in it. On the dyno I can get a a 8" to pull 188 amps from a single
> Optima Red top. The safts are NOT spinning very fast. More like
> GROAnnnnn! And also this is just a bit less than %10 of what my amp
> goals are.
>
> Anybody know of nifty ways to measure the torque on a shaft without
> using strain gages on the motor mounting base? There are some nifty
> systems that transmit the torque data wireless to a nearby sensor, So
> you don't have to touch the saft or motor, and you still get good data.
> I am looking for a complete system, not some engineering required, I
> have enough to build and design!
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Given a speed senor with decent resolution and a reasonable sized
flywheel, that is doable. But the lever can measure steady state at any
speed as it is attached to the motor body, not the shaft. And a
flywheel is a kinetic energy weapon, IMO. It's that "equal and opposite
reaction" thing that makes the strain gauge/ lever trick work...
Seth
On Feb 16, 2004, at 9:32 PM, Doug Weathers wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Anybody know of nifty ways to measure the torque on a shaft without
using strain gages on the motor mounting base? There are some nifty
systems that transmit the torque data wireless to a nearby sensor, So
you don't have to touch the saft or motor, and you still get good
data.
Disclaimer: you know a lot more about motors than I do.
Don't you still need something to touch the shaft? Torque is how hard
the shaft twists, and to know that, you need to have something try to
resist the twisting.
Other people have already mentioned attaching a lever to the shaft,
and picking a distance away from the shaft and measuring how many
pounds are exerted on a scale at that distance. 1000 ft/lbs would be
a one-pound force exerted from a 1000 foot long lever, or more
usefully, 1000 pounds of force from a one-foot lever, 500 pounds from
a two foot lever, etc. This involves putting a lever on the shaft and
stalling the motor.
I suppose you could attach a heavy flywheel to the motor shaft and
measure how long it takes to get it spun up to a particular RPM. In
this case the force that resists the twist is the inertia of the
flywheel, which depends on its mass and radius. (No, I don't have a
formula, sorry.)
I understand that a series-wound DC motor produces maximum torque at
zero RPMs, which means that as RPM increases, the torque falls off.
The lever-and-scale system would always be measuring torque at the
zero RPM point.
If you want to know the torque at different RPMs, the flywheel can
tell you. In fact, given the curve of RPM vs. time, a little calculus
(which I also don't have, sorry) should tell you the torque at every
RPM value.
I am looking for a complete system, not some engineering required, I
have enough to build and design!
Given an RPM sensor (which you will already have), a flywheel of known
weight and diameter, a computer, and a certain amount of math, you
should be able to derive torque information without much extra
engineering.
Am I correct? It seems pretty likely that I got something wrong in
the above message.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.land-and-sea.com/pwc-dyno/pwc-dyno.htm
I know how you guys like water ;-) How's this for a dyno?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think he was looking for something like
http://www.sensotec.com/pdf/9300.pdf
or http://www.sensotec.com/pdf/6200.pdf
There is a large selection at http://lebow.com/pfull.htm.
One of the neater models that caught my attention was
http://lebow.com/prodfolder/2000.pdf . It does digital sampling on the
transducer at 26 kHz and uses digital telemetry to send the data to a pickup
loop. The transducer has a 3 dB rolloff at 2 kHz. Accuracy is quoted at
0.01%. It puts out RS232, bipolar analog, unipolar analog and 4-20 mA.
Models span from 100 ft # to 60000 ft #. I did not see a price. The
specifications make it look expensive.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: Carbon pile? and blowers
> David Brandt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > http://www.sendev.com/pr_large-cap-ro-torque.html
> >
> > 20,000 in-lb = 1667 ft-lb. Built-in speed sensor. Extremely small.
> >
> > They were gone for the day so I couldn't get a price, though.
>
> Some other possibilities:
>
> <http://www.dqplus.com/edx.htm>
>
> EDx-2.5k 2500lb-ft, 0.1%, 2 samples/sec, RS232 & 485. $1315.
>
> Chatillon force guages offer RS232, 1000 samples/sec, but lower capacity
> (500lb max unless an external load cell model is used, then 10,000lb
> max). Same price league as the previous units ($1200-1400):
>
> <http://www.scalesgalore.com/chforce.htm#gauges>
>
> Strain guages/load cells are relatively cheap on their own (e.g. few
> hundred bucks), but once you add the signal conditioning and data
> acquisition to permit automatic logging by a PC, it looks like you are
> right back into the $1200-1400 range again. e.g.:
>
> <http://www.transducertechniques.com/TLL-Load-Cell.cfm> 3000lbs sensor
> for $265
>
> <http://www.transducertechniques.com/DAQ-16122-PCI.cfm> data acquisition
> PCI card package $1425 and up.
>
> Mount the load absorbing alternator such that its case can rotate, then
> use something like the EDx-2.5K force guage on a lever arm that puts it
> 12" from the shaft centerline to resist that rotation (in tension) and
> you're in business.
>
> For a bit less money ($995) you could go with the EDjr
> <http://www.dqplus.com/edjr.htm> and resign yourself to recording the
> torque values manually from its LCD display.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a brief and interesting chapter on torque sensing at
http://www.omega.com/literature/transactions/volume3/force3.html . It lists
several techniques and how the underlying process works.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Carbon pile? and blowers
> Anybody know of nifty ways to measure the torque on a shaft without
> using strain gages on the motor mounting base? There are some nifty
> systems that transmit the torque data wireless to a nearby sensor, So
> you don't have to touch the saft or motor, and you still get good data.
> I am looking for a complete system, not some engineering required, I
> have enough to build and design!
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Rich, there's another approach you could take. Get TWO of the same
> motors, and couple them up. Run one as a motor and the other as a
> generator. Calibrate them, so you know their characteristics.
>
> Once you know their curves, you can change the driving motor, and
> measure the results with the 'control' generator.
>
> There is an even trickier trick; one that I've used for small motors and
> would like to play with sometime with larger motors. Basically, you set
> up a controller to rapidly switch the machine between motor and
> generator action. No load on the shaft at all -- just a tachometer! It
> depends on the symmetrical relationship between motor and generator
> operation.
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
OK guys I am taking notes.
Lee's twin motor concept is what I am doing. Nice for playing around.
I do want to measure the real torque. Strain gages or torque shaft
windup is where I am going.
Since I am tyring to remove the "Magic" about timing and losses real or
calculated or imagined... I do need real sensors.
So far I have the Heart 2500 watt inverter wired to a Red Top, and I am
sucking 120 to 150 amps of about 12.0 volts, and heating NI-chrome.
Gee I am having fun at a a couple of hundred watts. I do 10 times that
on the Charger Dyno,aka the power bench. 10 to 20 times that voltage,
makes for small wires.
It's getting cold and windy out there again. Seattle is back to Gray and
wet.
I just got off the dyno and well it's getting late to have the side
yard lit up and funny wiring noises, and bright flashes lighting up the
place.
I did a CC order , no Punk's to hack off. My box said 42 lbs for
shipping.
I Have to stuff a charger in the morning, then get back to dyno fun.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
>
>
> Am I correct? It seems pretty likely that I got something wrong in the
> above message.
>
> >
> > --
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> > www.manzanitamicro.com
> > 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
> >
> >
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Bend, OR, USA
> http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
It's called and enertial dyno, and the NASCAR folks use them tied to a
Water brake dyno absorbtion unit. Can we say 25K$ for the water brake,
and about another 25K for the enertia load, This lets them run a gas
engine in compression mode after a hard quick accle run. I have the
catalogs from last year. Cool Stuff my last name ain't Petty or
Earnhart.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> http://www.land-and-sea.com/pwc-dyno/pwc-dyno.htm
>
> I know how you guys like water ;-) How's this for a dyno?
Now this is a step in the right direction!!!
For 5K$ a bit spendy, but a LOT less than Super flow. about 1/5 the
cost
issue, 200 ftlbs of torque is about 1000 amps, Yawn..... for us 2000 amp
suckers.....
We would shred it with torque.
But this is a VERY good place to start asking questions.
Also Us Dc boys need some massive loading way down low. at say 100 rpm
to 1000 rpm. And I of course, want locked rotor numbers also.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod and All,
I only saw them in real life but they are out
there and built by several companies and articles in
the other EAA for airplanes.
I'd google homebuilt aircraft engines 3 cyl,
ect and some info should show up as companies sell the
conversion parts, mods.
That EAA is good for composite info too.
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jerry,
> Thanks for the info, do you have more detailed info
> on the conversion process(web sites etc.)
> I can figure out most of this myself, but sometimes
> the extra reference material is usefull to avoid
> stupid mistakes.
> Thank,s
> Rod
> --- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > , Hi Rod and All,
> > There is a great 100lb motor that would be
> > good for you, the 3 cyl, 57hp Geo Metro motor. Low
> > pollution, stock fuel injection, high eff and
> parts,
> > conversion info available from homebuilt aircraft
> > sources as it is converted for aircraft use.
> > Or there are several 18-25 hp OHV industral
> > engine depending on how many kw you want to
> generate
> > at the same weight.
> > I've always wanted to build an RV-EV hybrid
> > using a Metro motor at 3600rpm as a generator and
> EV
> > as the drive with a 50 mile batt pack.
> > If you use eff gens you only need 15-20 hp,
> > 12-15kw for your T-van to go long distance at
> > 60mph.
> > HTH's,
> > jerry dycus
> >
> > --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > After buying a 10hp electric start Tecumseh
> engine
> > > I got some good feedback for a generator engine
> > > for the TEVan.
> > > A couple of posts said I needed 15-20Hp and
> > another
> > > post said a used Insight engine would be ideal.
> > > So this 10hp engine might go on my son's go cart
> > and
> > > I'm still looking for an Insight engine.
> > > Any good leads on where I can find these?
> > > Rod.
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> > online.
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> >
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> I think he was looking for something like
> http://www.sensotec.com/pdf/9300.pdf
> or http://www.sensotec.com/pdf/6200.pdf
Now the first there is a neat solution. Unfortunately, it is limited to
2500 RPM. That second one would work great. However, unless the prices for
wireless sensors have come down by at least a factor of three in the last
few years, I think they are out of your budget. By the way, exactly what IS
the budget, anyway? All I recall hearing is "on the cheap."
> There is a large selection at http://lebow.com/pfull.htm.
>
> One of the neater models that caught my attention was
> http://lebow.com/prodfolder/2000.pdf . It does digital
> sampling on the transducer at 26 kHz and uses digital
> telemetry to send the data to a pickup loop. The transducer
> has a 3 dB rolloff at 2 kHz. Accuracy is quoted at 0.01%. It
> puts out RS232, bipolar analog, unipolar analog and 4-20 mA.
> Models span from 100 ft # to 60000 ft #. I did not see a
> price. The specifications make it look expensive.
Lebow transducers are EXTREMELY expensive. I have been quoted $25,000 for a
3 axis load cell! Five years ago or so, they wanted, I think, about $10,000
for a 20,000 in-lb. torque sensor, and that one was slip ring based (they
tried to talk me into their high-tech wireless solution that was about twice
the price). Himmelsteins are similarly high priced. $15000 five years ago
for a complete shaft-to-computer torque measuring system. Theirs are all
rotary transformer based, and so don't have slip rings. By contrast, a
comparable slip ring based sensor from omega with RPM sensor is "only"
$4150. Of course, that "only" goes to 10,000 in-lb, but you get the idea.
By the way, I had no problems measuring 0-20,000 in-lb of torque at speeds
from 0 to 3600 RPM with a slip ring based meter. Didn't experience any of
the problems that either Lebow or Himmelstein went on and on about. It
wasn't a very electronically noisy environment, though.
All the digital stuff will drive the price up a bit. IMHO, a simple strain
gage based torque sensor and a good panel meter that will output RS232 to
the computer is just as good, and it can be had relatively inexpensively.
Expect to pay at least $5000 total, though.
This is assuming you want to measure torque while the system is turning.
The way some others were talking, it sounded like you only needed to measure
it at stall.
Can you give us a clearer idea of what the system looks like (for those of
us who are clueless as to how dynos are set up)? What do you need to
measure, when, and under what conditions? And, of course, how much do you
want to spend?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 5:22 PM
> Subject: RE: Carbon pile? and blowers
>
>
> > David Brandt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.sendev.com/pr_large-cap-ro-torque.html
> > >
> > > 20,000 in-lb = 1667 ft-lb. Built-in speed sensor.
> Extremely small.
> > >
> > > They were gone for the day so I couldn't get a price, though.
> >
> > Some other possibilities:
> >
> > <http://www.dqplus.com/edx.htm>
> >
> > EDx-2.5k 2500lb-ft, 0.1%, 2 samples/sec, RS232 & 485. $1315.
> >
> > Chatillon force guages offer RS232, 1000 samples/sec, but
> lower capacity
> > (500lb max unless an external load cell model is used, then 10,000lb
> > max). Same price league as the previous units ($1200-1400):
> >
> > <http://www.scalesgalore.com/chforce.htm#gauges>
> >
> > Strain guages/load cells are relatively cheap on their own (e.g. few
> > hundred bucks), but once you add the signal conditioning and data
> > acquisition to permit automatic logging by a PC, it looks
> like you are
> > right back into the $1200-1400 range again. e.g.:
> >
> > <http://www.transducertechniques.com/TLL-Load-Cell.cfm>
> 3000lbs sensor
> > for $265
> >
> > <http://www.transducertechniques.com/DAQ-16122-PCI.cfm>
> data acquisition
> > PCI card package $1425 and up.
> >
> > Mount the load absorbing alternator such that its case can
> rotate, then
> > use something like the EDx-2.5K force guage on a lever arm
> that puts it
> > 12" from the shaft centerline to resist that rotation (in
> tension) and
> > you're in business.
> >
> > For a bit less money ($995) you could go with the EDjr
> > <http://www.dqplus.com/edjr.htm> and resign yourself to
> recording the
> > torque values manually from its LCD display.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
I know what it's like with a kid in college - I am a kid in college :)
Thought I might run this by you:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2461118643
I started EV Source a few months ago, and I have become totally
enthralled in Electric Vehicles. We'll see where it takes me in the future.
Regards,
Ryan
David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
Jim and All,
Speaking of dead purple boxes, I just got off the phone with DCP, as I had
shipped the RX-7's T-Rex back to them recently for a postmortem. Bad news
(it's dead Jim), the power stage is fried and they are no longer geared up
to repair them. Major bummer. So, I either try to get a used T-Rex, or a
used Raptor which would require three less batteries (I ran it with the S10
Raptor during the truck upgrade and I didn't like the reduced range and
power!), keeping in mind that if I kill another DCP I won't have any
support, or talk to Otmar. And with a kid starting collage this Fall, that
might be a financial problem!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and racer with The National Electric Drag Racing
Association
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 15 year-old daughter?)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:22:47 -0500
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: death of a DCP raptor
The short version is that I have now learned that even basic flooded GC
batteries can kill a big DCP Raptor, and that full support is no longer
provided for these controllers. So other DCP owners be warned & be nice
to your controllers!
<snip>
--
Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darn Reply Button. Sometime I'm going to really learn my lesson when I
write something embarrassing - good thing my wife's not on the list, or
I'd end up "replying" to her :)
David,
I know what it's like with a kid in college - I am a kid in college
:) Thought I might run this by you:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2461118643
I started EV Source a few months ago, and I have become totally
enthralled in Electric Vehicles. We'll see where it takes me in the
future.
Regards,
Ryan
David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
Jim and All,
Speaking of dead purple boxes, I just got off the phone with DCP, as
I had
shipped the RX-7's T-Rex back to them recently for a postmortem. Bad
news
(it's dead Jim), the power stage is fried and they are no longer
geared up
to repair them. Major bummer. So, I either try to get a used T-Rex, or a
used Raptor which would require three less batteries (I ran it with
the S10
Raptor during the truck upgrade and I didn't like the reduced range and
power!), keeping in mind that if I kill another DCP I won't have any
support, or talk to Otmar. And with a kid starting collage this Fall,
that
might be a financial problem!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and racer with The National Electric Drag Racing
Association
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 15 year-old daughter?)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:22:47 -0500
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: death of a DCP raptor
The short version is that I have now learned that even basic flooded GC
batteries can kill a big DCP Raptor, and that full support is no longer
provided for these controllers. So other DCP owners be warned & be nice
to your controllers!
<snip>
--
Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that the musering of charger kwh is off. as 1500 watts is all your
going to get for a 120v plug . If the Russco charges at 1Kw then he's saying
it would take 36 hours to charge to do the 36 miles ( and thats going full
blast the whole time) . How is he getting the 1000 watt-hour per mile . ?
Ask him how long it take to charge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 5:29 PM
Subject: Charger efficiency
> Hi folks,
>
> I recently sold my '94 Ranger conversion and the new owner is reporting
> only about 1 mile per kilowatt hour when measured at the outlet, but about
> 400 watt-hours per mile when record by the E-meter. The truck is a 120
VDC
> conversion using standard golf cart batteries and a Russco 120 VAC
> charger. He recently traveled 36 miles at 55 mph, so I don't think the
> truck is running all that poorly, but both he and I expected far higher
> efficiency. Does anyone have a similar truck that we could compare
numbers
> with? Isn't 1000 watt-hours per mile excessive for a vehicle like
> this? Is the Ruscco the problem or the golf cart batteries or what?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force (almost there)
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hay Joe! Sentya the unsubscribing gig for the List. Watch yur E snail box
Didn't wanna lose ya!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph M Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
> Unsubscribe
> From: Joe Weber
> E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone remember USCAR?
> On 16 Feb 2004 at 11:43, Lee Dekker wrote:
>
> > Yes, GM still has the EV1 promo page up and running. Great car GM, too
bad
> > you crushed it.
>
> It's really sad. Every reference to the car is past tense. From
>
> http://www.gmev.com/faq/faq.htm :
>
> > How fast did the EV1 go?
> > How far would it go?
> > How long did it take to charge?
> > Why was the EV1 lease only?
>
> Et cetera. And, on this page:
>
> http://www.gmev.com/project/project.htm
>
> > The EV1 was one of the best electric cars ever made. It was a car
> > that helped to define the future.
>
> You can tell that ^someone^ at GM cares. Unfortunately, the people in
> charge don't.
Hi Dave;
Yes, somebody DID care, there was a wonderful team at GM that built the
EV-1 I hava friend that was on it, saw him last summer,in Detroit, hada spin
in a spiffy Red EV -1 there. Betya I won't be able to do that THIS summer at
woodburn?? It hurt them, big time when the thing was canned, but they did
build the Gold Standard of EV's only to have to work on that silly hybrid
thing they trot out at car shows.The Diseasel 80 MPG thing, which, I guess
works, but they arent in any hurry to apply it under an Subdivision or
Escalade, hah! Or a Metro. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> ... I am a kid in college :)
> ... I started EV Source a few months ago, and I have become totally
> enthralled in Electric Vehicles.
Seth Murray wrote:
I'm taking power electronics as soon as I can (only a sophomore EE
> now) but any recommended reading in the mean time?
What is this world coming to when college kids write stuff like this? ;-)
After the depressing posts on the destruction of the TEVans, this is
great to see. I'm a bit past college (although refusing to ever grow up)
and also looking to see where EVs will take me in the future.
- Jim
aka "I learned in Differential Equations that hard core engineering
wasn't for me"
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Jim Coate wrote:
Picture of the potential carbon pile:
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/tester_carbon.jpg
When it catches fire, put it out, write down what the limit was!!!! I am
NOT kidding here!
Heh. Having confirmed what I have, I'll be putting it in a box w/fan and
try it out... but seeing as I don't have a supply of replacements, I
plan to stop short of fires...
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know how the batteries are laid out, but is there a safe &
practical way to disconnect them at strategic points to break into
smaller groups of say 48-96 volts each? Then go around with a more tame
charger and work on one block at a time.
If I understand the situation, the batteries are in unknown condition
but likely less then good. So really need to be checking them one by one
anyway to see what is happening.
Diana Trevino wrote:
I am trying to build a 400 volt charger to charge the batteries
directly. Just a very basic charger, non-isolated, non-automatic,
just some 400 VDC to charge the batterys in the two Electricars
and see where we stand.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
... And IMO, lithium is still a self
powered power resistor unless you are talking cell phones and laptops.
Care to elaborate on that? I knew the advanced chemistries were less
efficient on recharge then lead acid, but is Lithium that much worse
then say NiMH?
- Jim
aka "I won but still lost on eBay"
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, there is.
On the US Electricars, when you pop the cut-off switch on the back of
the pack it breaks both strings in half. Thus you will get electrocuted
by at most 150 volts as opposed to 300.
My policy when I drop the pack is to turn off the switch, drop the pack,
and before removing it from the bottom of the car unhook two specific
interconnects on the edge. This breaks the pack into four 75 volt packs,
which is a bit more safe to handle.
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
I don't know how the batteries are laid out, but is there a safe &
practical way to disconnect them at strategic points to break into
smaller groups of say 48-96 volts each? Then go around with a more tame
charger and work on one block at a time.
If I understand the situation, the batteries are in unknown condition
but likely less then good. So really need to be checking them one by one
anyway to see what is happening.
Diana Trevino wrote:
I am trying to build a 400 volt charger to charge the batteries
directly. Just a very basic charger, non-isolated, non-automatic,
just some 400 VDC to charge the batterys in the two Electricars
and see where we stand.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction. Since there is an odd number of batteries per string the max
voltage is 156 and 144 per side when the pack comes down.
When I split the pack before rolling it out, the max voltage is 84 volts
on two strings, 72 volts on the other. After the pack is rolled out and
the plastic cover is removed, the 84's get bisected to 48 volts and the
72's get bisected to 36 volts.
Install is the reverse of the above. All tools are wrapped in electrical
tape anyway because a 48 volt short is a *nasty* thing with Hawkers.
I've seen the arc drawn when short-testing my solar panels, and at 36
volts it's enough to vaporize the test leads. And that's with 6 amps of
solar power...
Chris
Christopher Zach wrote:
Actually, there is.
On the US Electricars, when you pop the cut-off switch on the back of
the pack it breaks both strings in half. Thus you will get electrocuted
by at most 150 volts as opposed to 300.
My policy when I drop the pack is to turn off the switch, drop the pack,
and before removing it from the bottom of the car unhook two specific
interconnects on the edge. This breaks the pack into four 75 volt packs,
which is a bit more safe to handle.
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
I don't know how the batteries are laid out, but is there a safe &
practical way to disconnect them at strategic points to break into
smaller groups of say 48-96 volts each? Then go around with a more
tame charger and work on one block at a time.
If I understand the situation, the batteries are in unknown condition
but likely less then good. So really need to be checking them one by
one anyway to see what is happening.
Diana Trevino wrote:
I am trying to build a 400 volt charger to charge the batteries
directly. Just a very basic charger, non-isolated, non-automatic,
just some 400 VDC to charge the batterys in the two Electricars
and see where we stand.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got the Moped plate today. 6 bucks permenent one time registration. I did
it with a Laher 3 wheeled cart. 2 HP GE motor. It fits the discription of
a Moped in California. The limits. No faster than 30mph. 2hp or less.
Lights horn etc.....Electric vehicles need no pedals. Pictures to the Album
to follow. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
