EV Digest 3380
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Maiden Voyage!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Monster genset on ebay.co.uk!
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) fun with powerwheels 2...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The EMW goes for a test ride
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: The EMW goes for a test ride
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: new question was AC induction vs BLDC
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: fun with powerwheels 2...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: fun with powerwheels 2...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: fun with powerwheels 2...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) OT: credit card acceptance
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) OT Metro knowledgeable HELP!
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Screaming Brushes (caution)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: paging james jarrett
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT Metro knowledgeable HELP!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: BLDC vs Induction
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Screaming Brushes
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Screaming Brushes (caution)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Float charging a pack overnight?
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Float charging a pack overnight?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: The EMW goes for a test ride
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Anyone selling a small Sep-Ex motor?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Gas prices make electric sound pretty good!
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Float charging a pack overnight?
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Feb 2004 at 9:34, amadare wrote:
> Any
> Comuta-Car owners out there on this list have advice as to how to water
> these batteries?
I used a mirror and flashlight to see the hard-to-reach cells, and a rubber
bulb from a broken hydrometer with a rubber hose extension to water them.
Others have used such items as a modified Hudson spray tank.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
When the president does it, that means it is not illegal.
-- Richard Nixon
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3800659756&category=633
160 kVA Rolls Royce genset!
Serious charging power.....
...and no, I'm not bidding on this :-)
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the other day, we got a new thrift store variety powerwheels for our 4
year old daughter. Probably the cheapest hot pink Lamborghini Countach ever
sold. At $5. It is to replace the jeep, whose body is disintegrating.
It was a 6V vehicle, and the battery, while dead, still read 2.83 volts.
Not bad, considering they are usually at 0.1V or less. Off to the recycle
pile...
Anyway, after some minor plastic work, I slid the 12V powerwheels battery I
had into place. This vehicle actually has a battery hold-down system. The
jeep relied on the hood, and the 4-wheeler has it under the seat. There was
room for one (or even two) of the 13 Ah Hawkers, but major plastic cutting
would be required, and it is possible for the hold-down to short the battery
if it shifts enough, so I left Hawker upgrades to later (because she wanted
to ride NOW! Despite the fact it was about 30 degrees out).
Since it was a 6V car, it is quite speedy on 12V. All the components are
the same as they are on the 12V vehicles, so they have enough rating, and I
checked all the connections, and nothing got hot.
It is speedy enough that the tires spin most every time, especially on the
gravel driveway. She seemed to quite quickly get the hang of using the
sliding while the wheels were spinning to help steer. Mostly, she loves
that she can outrun her sister!
There is a LOT of room in this car. I can see making a racer-type vehicle
out of it, with four 13 Ah hawkers (two in the sides between the outer body
and inner "tub", and two between the motor/battery compartment and the outer
body), a real controller in the battery/motor compartment, and slightly
larger motor/gearbox units (the 6V ones seem to run fine and not heat up,
but the 12V ones do use larger motors). That's for the far future, though.
Yesterday, however, I went to charge the battery after her big sister had
run it and gotten it stuck. My wife didn't witness the event, but I suspect
sabotage. Everything works fine up to the gearbox. The motors spin fine,
but there is some kind of disconnect between them and the wheels...on both
sides!
Anyway, we're picking up another 4-wheeler with broken handlebars today for
$1 to use for parts. I guess I'll be transplanting those motor/gearbox
assemblies sooner rather than later. Since these will be 12V units, the
speed will go down.
I would transplant the ones from the jeep, but they have a different form
factor, and the Countach is very tight where these mount. In fact, the
motors stick through the battery compartment sides.
I think these are even more fun to play with than full sized EV's, and not
just for the kids!
Dave Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See comments below, based on my experience with a converted Honda 350, 48v
of 55 Ahr AGM's:
> The shaft drive BMWs look good as
> conversion candidates because they have a separate sealed transmission.
I looked at BMWs also, but that transmission and attached motor take a lot
of prime real-estate that could be used to place batteries low and centered
in the frame.
> I personally think a transmission is necessary on a "daily rider" EM
> (Electric Motorcycle) because direct drive makes for poor bottom-end
> grunt with a single motor. More importantly, the low numerical gearing
> necessary for direct drive keeps you in the poor motor efficiency range
> at low speeds.
I thought I needed a transmission also when I started designing. I could
not fit one in, so I went without it and it turned out ok. I can
out-accelarate normal traffic from a dead stop. Series DC motors are
wonderfully suited for this type of service. A gear box would be useful,
especially on hills, but I feel better having an extra battery in that space
instead. I don't spend much time at low speed, and energy usage is low at
low speeds, so low efficiency is not a great problem.
> Range is even harder to get on an EM than an electric
> car or truck, so efficiency is Very Important.
I agree, not enough space for more batteries, and lots of wind drag as
higher speeds.
As someone else posted last year, best EM handling is achieved by keeping
the center of gravity somewhere between the knees of the rider, but there is
not that much space available there, unless you strech the frame like the El
Chopper design does. Extending the batteries out sideways to get more space
increases the area for wind drag and can interfere with the foot positions
on the foot pegs and brake lever. Putting batteries up where the gas tank
was creates high center of gravity and make you wobbly at low speeds.
Putting batteries on each side of the rear wheel messes up handling and
makes leg room difficult for a rear passenger.
Solution: Batteries with lots more energy density (but no less power
density) than AGM lead acid. Now where have I heard that before......
>
> Your adaptation of an ADC A89 to the BMW gearbox is very slick. I can
> see that it should be possible to have a completed EM that has a very
> integrated, non-rolling-science-project look to it. Perhaps you could
> use the fuel tank to make a mold for a fiberglass cover that would blend
> into covers/fairings over the batteries?
I think the science-project look could easily be corrected with side covers,
or tasteful arrangement of components and wiring if someone wanted an
industrial-art kind of look.
...........................
> Chris
Thanks for your comments. Every vehicle is a compromise of many competing
characteristics. My design is based on personal preferences and my
particular driving needs, so may not apply to anyone else. Please let me
know if I'm missing the boat on anything here. Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice work! Awesome design. How many pounds of batteries is that. Mark T.
>. I have
> posted some pictures on my site.
> http://reverendgadget.com/subpage1.html
>
>
> Gadget
>
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good lord, the added torque probably snapped the axles on the gearboxes.
The slipping on the gravel and such was probably keeping things from
binding; when the bigger kid hit a patch of something solid it dug in
and disintegrated.
You might want to think of installing a hitch and trailer and putting in
a T105 battery. 6 volts with plenty of range for driving it around :-)
Another thought would be to install some sort of a current limiter to
keep the motor from snapping the wheels apart. Perhaps a counter-magnet
around the motor itself with a reverse field current that would kick in
to strengthen the field and slow the motor down.
Chris
David Brandt wrote:
Well, the other day, we got a new thrift store variety powerwheels for our 4
year old daughter. Probably the cheapest hot pink Lamborghini Countach ever
sold. At $5. It is to replace the jeep, whose body is disintegrating.
It was a 6V vehicle, and the battery, while dead, still read 2.83 volts.
Not bad, considering they are usually at 0.1V or less. Off to the recycle
pile...
Anyway, after some minor plastic work, I slid the 12V powerwheels battery I
had into place. This vehicle actually has a battery hold-down system. The
jeep relied on the hood, and the 4-wheeler has it under the seat. There was
room for one (or even two) of the 13 Ah Hawkers, but major plastic cutting
would be required, and it is possible for the hold-down to short the battery
if it shifts enough, so I left Hawker upgrades to later (because she wanted
to ride NOW! Despite the fact it was about 30 degrees out).
Since it was a 6V car, it is quite speedy on 12V. All the components are
the same as they are on the 12V vehicles, so they have enough rating, and I
checked all the connections, and nothing got hot.
It is speedy enough that the tires spin most every time, especially on the
gravel driveway. She seemed to quite quickly get the hang of using the
sliding while the wheels were spinning to help steer. Mostly, she loves
that she can outrun her sister!
There is a LOT of room in this car. I can see making a racer-type vehicle
out of it, with four 13 Ah hawkers (two in the sides between the outer body
and inner "tub", and two between the motor/battery compartment and the outer
body), a real controller in the battery/motor compartment, and slightly
larger motor/gearbox units (the 6V ones seem to run fine and not heat up,
but the 12V ones do use larger motors). That's for the far future, though.
Yesterday, however, I went to charge the battery after her big sister had
run it and gotten it stuck. My wife didn't witness the event, but I suspect
sabotage. Everything works fine up to the gearbox. The motors spin fine,
but there is some kind of disconnect between them and the wheels...on both
sides!
Anyway, we're picking up another 4-wheeler with broken handlebars today for
$1 to use for parts. I guess I'll be transplanting those motor/gearbox
assemblies sooner rather than later. Since these will be 12V units, the
speed will go down.
I would transplant the ones from the jeep, but they have a different form
factor, and the Countach is very tight where these mount. In fact, the
motors stick through the battery compartment sides.
I think these are even more fun to play with than full sized EV's, and not
just for the kids!
Dave Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where do you find power wheels for less than $5?? I can't seem to find
any for less than $50.
Lonnie Borntreger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
3 phase synchronous AC motors vs AC induction, which
do you think would give the best performance and
efficiency. I'll throw price out the window...
Gadget
Synchronous PM motors are slightly more efficient
because no energy lost to slip. But the difference
is small and overall efficiency for either one
is high, say 97% vs 94%. Synchronous PM motors
cannot develop as much torque as induction ones
because mag field of PM is fixed while in the induction
machine is externally controlled.
So, in my opinion, if you want the most efficient
vehicle with moderate performance, synchronous PM
motor is way to do it. If performance is the top
priority, use induction machine.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My daughter loves when we ride our electric motorcycle around the cul-de-sac
together. Mine is my converted Suzuki GK250 and hers is a powerwheels 3
wheeler.
damon
I think these are even more fun to play with than full sized EV's, and not
just for the kids!
Dave Brandt
_________________________________________________________________
Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage � 4 plans to choose from!
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the bigger one is around 45 lb., but I can't see enough torque coming
out of a 1.25" dia. X 1.5" long PM motor to snap these gears. What's more,
is that the smaller girl is around 30 lb. (there's not too much difference
in weight), and she was only spinning the wheels on the driveway, so the
duty cycle was only a bit different.
Have you taken one of those gearboxes apart? The gear on the motor shaft is
metal. The rest of the gears, while plastic, have progressively wider teeth
to handle the torque required. On the ones I have taken apart, all after
heavy use for over a year, everything was fine except the grease had
hardened. While the sealing leaves a bit to be desired, the design is
actually quite robust.
The gears do use spindles to center them. Maybe those gave, but on both
sides of the gear, and in both cases at the same time? Plus it would have
to happen on the middle gears, as the spindles for the first one is metal.
Something doesn't add up.
Tonight, I'll be doing an autopsy and transplant. The new 12V
gearboxes/motors SHOULD (crosses fingers) hold up just fine.
Funny, this wasn't a Hawker doing this, it was one of the little powerwheels
batteries.
I still think it's a lot of fun - hands-on time with EV's (no matter what
their size) is great. And that huge grin on my daughter's face, priceless!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Zach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 3:37 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
>
> Good lord, the added torque probably snapped the axles on the
> gearboxes.
> The slipping on the gravel and such was probably keeping
> things from binding; when the bigger kid hit a patch of
> something solid it dug in and disintegrated.
>
> You might want to think of installing a hitch and trailer and
> putting in a T105 battery. 6 volts with plenty of range for
> driving it around :-) Another thought would be to install
> some sort of a current limiter to keep the motor from
> snapping the wheels apart. Perhaps a counter-magnet around
> the motor itself with a reverse field current that would kick
> in to strengthen the field and slow the motor down.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> David Brandt wrote:
> > Well, the other day, we got a new thrift store variety
> powerwheels for
> > our 4 year old daughter. Probably the cheapest hot pink
> Lamborghini
> > Countach ever sold. At $5. It is to replace the jeep,
> whose body is disintegrating.
> >
> > It was a 6V vehicle, and the battery, while dead, still
> read 2.83 volts.
> > Not bad, considering they are usually at 0.1V or less. Off to the
> > recycle pile...
> >
> > Anyway, after some minor plastic work, I slid the 12V powerwheels
> > battery I had into place. This vehicle actually has a battery
> > hold-down system. The jeep relied on the hood, and the
> 4-wheeler has
> > it under the seat. There was room for one (or even two) of
> the 13 Ah
> > Hawkers, but major plastic cutting would be required, and it is
> > possible for the hold-down to short the battery if it
> shifts enough,
> > so I left Hawker upgrades to later (because she wanted to
> ride NOW! Despite the fact it was about 30 degrees out).
> >
> > Since it was a 6V car, it is quite speedy on 12V. All the
> components
> > are the same as they are on the 12V vehicles, so they have enough
> > rating, and I checked all the connections, and nothing got hot.
> >
> > It is speedy enough that the tires spin most every time,
> especially on
> > the gravel driveway. She seemed to quite quickly get the hang of
> > using the sliding while the wheels were spinning to help steer.
> > Mostly, she loves that she can outrun her sister!
> >
> > There is a LOT of room in this car. I can see making a racer-type
> > vehicle out of it, with four 13 Ah hawkers (two in the
> sides between
> > the outer body and inner "tub", and two between the motor/battery
> > compartment and the outer body), a real controller in the
> > battery/motor compartment, and slightly larger motor/gearbox units
> > (the 6V ones seem to run fine and not heat up, but the 12V
> ones do use larger motors). That's for the far future, though.
> >
> > Yesterday, however, I went to charge the battery after her
> big sister
> > had run it and gotten it stuck. My wife didn't witness the
> event, but
> > I suspect sabotage. Everything works fine up to the gearbox. The
> > motors spin fine, but there is some kind of disconnect between them
> > and the wheels...on both sides!
> >
> > Anyway, we're picking up another 4-wheeler with broken handlebars
> > today for
> > $1 to use for parts. I guess I'll be transplanting those
> > motor/gearbox assemblies sooner rather than later. Since
> these will
> > be 12V units, the speed will go down.
> >
> > I would transplant the ones from the jeep, but they have a
> different
> > form factor, and the Countach is very tight where these mount. In
> > fact, the motors stick through the battery compartment sides.
> >
> > I think these are even more fun to play with than full
> sized EV's, and
> > not just for the kids!
> >
> > Dave Brandt
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At our local thrift shop. Usually, you can just pop in a new battery and
go. On one I had to do some rewiring, but that wasn't any big deal.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lonnie Borntreger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 3:55 PM
> To: Evlist
> Subject: Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
>
> Where do you find power wheels for less than $5?? I can't
> seem to find any for less than $50.
>
> Lonnie Borntreger
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm at the point where too many people keep
asking for credit card payment option. So
I have set this up. If one of you was planning
on purchase from Metric Mind, this option
is available now. Just letting the word out.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for the OT post, but I know there are Metro owners here, and
people with converted Geo Metros that have disassembled the stuff
under the hood.
It will not charge its 12v battery. The alternator tests out good on
the computerized machine at my local NAPA (alternator make and model
specific test). They have tested it twice 'cause its the most
expensive alternator at over $200 rebuilt. The battery was replaced
with a new one, still the problem persists. I have looked for any
voltage drop between the alternator output and the battery positive
post (to rule out wiring I think) and they read the same voltage to
the 0.01 volt. But this voltage is WAY to low, generally just over 13
volts, and drops if you turn on the headlights.
Since others have worked these vehicles over with a short stick I was
wondering if there could be something wrong in the circuit that the 2
small wires go to. The dash ALT warning light does work and goes off
when its started. *Any* ideas?
thanx,
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Using a Sanding drum, is a good start. It would work really fast, but
you need it to be as close as possible to the actual arc of the
Commutator. I will use the fried comm from my XP motor to dial in
brushes for AvDC 8 inch motors. I am going to do the front 9 incher for
gone poastal. It will have virgin brushes, but I bet they are preARCed.
Hello All,
A word of caution here.
At one time ADC shipped motors with pre arced brushes. The were close
to fitting but not perfect. There is a small amount of wiggle and
tolerance in the brush box that keeps a externally radiused brush
from being perfect.
IIRC they stopped doing it because it was causing bad brush seating.
What happens is that if a brush is close but not perfect it pulls a
arc and damages both the brush and the comm. On the other hand, if
you let the motor start with a square brush then the motor can break
it in perfectly, albeit slowly.
So the lesson learned is this: If you are going to arc the brushes,
be sure to follow up and finish it with a stone until they are fully
seated. If you can't do that, don't do it at all.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is on its way now.
Seth
On Feb 26, 2004, at 7:56 AM, Seth wrote:
I have a MiniDV tape of NEDRA vegas '04 for you but I lost your
address. You were the one who was going to copy this to DVD, no? If
so, drop me a shipping address.
Thanks,
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Neon,
Sorry to hear you are having a problem. Is this an electric drive using an
alternator for the 12-volt battery, or an ICE? There is a very active and
knowledgeable Yahoo Group called the "Metro and Swift Club," that has excellent
repair and technical advice for Metros. I MAY even have a used alternator leftover
from an engine swap from list member Mark Hanson's ICE Metro. I'll try to
check that out by Monday.
Lawson Huntley
Charlotte, NC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another option is the local dump. I was waiting in line, and grabbed it
out of a guy's truck.
Paying $200 for these is insane. *Sigh* I will say I miss the Fire Chief
that I had as a kid though. It was made of steel, had a frame and
suspension and was powered by a big motor with a pair of T105's. I have
never seen another; I think it was either a promo-car or a coney island job.
Chris
David Brandt wrote:
At our local thrift shop. Usually, you can just pop in a new battery and
go. On one I had to do some rewiring, but that wasn't any big deal.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Borntreger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 3:55 PM
To: Evlist
Subject: Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
Where do you find power wheels for less than $5?? I can't
seem to find any for less than $50.
Lonnie Borntreger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rhett George wrote:
>
> - Greetings -
>
>
> BLDC motors pull the rotor along synchronously and, therefore, have no
> rotor loss.
>
> Rhett
This is not entierly true. A lot of heat is made in the steel behind the
magnet. I know it's not supposed to but it surely does. It was enough
test motor to melt the glue holding the Noe magnets into the stator.
Also now adays it's amlost impossible to reverse the field in Neo
magnets, you have to heat them up and then it gets alot eaiser. So
saying you can get more field strength on a Induction motor neglects the
last 10 years of magnet developments.
Cooling the rotor of a BLDC motor is a must, but it's about %1 of the
heat made in the stator windings. It's also a LOT harder to remove since
it's inside the already hot stator.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it is clear that the AvDc motors and GE use different brush
material. How differrent is not real clear. The Comms on GEs are very
smooth and the brushes seam to have a much higher metalic luster. They
look like they don't wear much at all. This makes it fun to lap in all
the brushes....
The Gone Poastal AvDC 9 incher just followed me home.... Oh Boy another
motor to set up! I will time it and break in the brushes. I figure I
might just do a series of photos of my progress, and we all get to see
factory fresh brushes. We are going for 13 Deg advance again, just like
the rear 8 inchers in Gp.
The force sensor for the Dyno is a Cooper instruments S beam +-1000 lbs
strain gage and sensor. I should have it next week some time. Joe and My
Dad did free Body diagrams for the location of the pivots and the torque
sensor. They kinda agree. So very soon I should have real force data
to back up motor testing, and break in procedures.
Soon the shouting will stop and the data will begin. And Boy I have
spent some time shouting about all this to Rod, Dave Cloud, and Dennis.
I need to get a Tach up and clocking just for this weekend's 9 inch
thrashing contest.
Gotta go get the Teenager at ther Ferry dock...
Later.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>
> >
> > Using a Sanding drum, is a good start. It would work really fast, but
> >you need it to be as close as possible to the actual arc of the
> >Commutator. I will use the fried comm from my XP motor to dial in
> >brushes for AvDC 8 inch motors. I am going to do the front 9 incher for
> >gone poastal. It will have virgin brushes, but I bet they are preARCed.
>
> Hello All,
>
> A word of caution here.
>
> At one time ADC shipped motors with pre arced brushes. The were close
> to fitting but not perfect. There is a small amount of wiggle and
> tolerance in the brush box that keeps a externally radiused brush
> from being perfect.
>
> IIRC they stopped doing it because it was causing bad brush seating.
> What happens is that if a brush is close but not perfect it pulls a
> arc and damages both the brush and the comm. On the other hand, if
> you let the motor start with a square brush then the motor can break
> it in perfectly, albeit slowly.
>
> So the lesson learned is this: If you are going to arc the brushes,
> be sure to follow up and finish it with a stone until they are fully
> seated. If you can't do that, don't do it at all.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
That is VERY clear Otmar, and thanks for the data point.
Most of the brushes are arced for the 9 inchers, this really helps with
the 8s, they are closer. We will see on the factory fresh unit.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Have you taken one of those gearboxes apart? The gear on the motor shaft is
metal. The rest of the gears, while plastic, have progressively wider teeth
to handle the torque required. On the ones I have taken apart, all after
heavy use for over a year, everything was fine except the grease had
hardened. While the sealing leaves a bit to be desired, the design is
actually quite robust.
*nod* True, however they were designed for the 6 volt motor. You've
doubled the torque at the input end. Typically when they design these
things they don't over-build them too much. Costs more with no real benefit.
The gears do use spindles to center them. Maybe those gave, but on both
sides of the gear, and in both cases at the same time? Plus it would have
to happen on the middle gears, as the spindles for the first one is metal.
Something doesn't add up.
Mmm... If one side blew, then the other motor would get full power and
be in charge (alone) of moving the car. Chain reaction perhaps?
Tonight, I'll be doing an autopsy and transplant. The new 12V
gearboxes/motors SHOULD (crosses fingers) hold up just fine.
*nod* I'm sure they will be great. Ours is holding up perfectly, despite
lugging the 65lb, the 50lb kid, a 21lb Hawker and a spare 21kb Hawker in
the back.
However when the battery runs down the breaker stops popping. Voltage
drops, current draw goes up, that sort of thing.
Chris
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Question: Last night I decided to float charge the dead Hawker on the
charger at 14 volts overnight. Today after leaving it off charge all day
it rreads a nice 13.0 volts and has no problem with the load tester (500
CCA as opposed to <300 before with a "full charge")
The Hawker manuals say to float charge a pack every once in awhile; does
anyone see any danger in doing this? I'm thinking of reporgramming the
MagneCharger on the prizm to apply a steady 13.7 volts per battery CV
charge on the pack for eight hours. What is the risks?
Chris
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On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 15:58, Chris Zach wrote:
> Another option is the local dump. I was waiting in line, and grabbed it
> out of a guy's truck.
Our dump does not allow you to take anything once it's on their
property. I watched with great sadness the other day as someone tossed
a gokart with perfectly good frame, wheels and tires. If I would have
arrived 5 minutes earlier, I might have caught him before he entered the
dump.
Lonnie
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Philip, If you decide to run the pwr rack without a pump you want to loop
the pressure side to the return side and don't drain the rack, needs fluid
for lubrication. I would even consider a resevoir above the rack level that
you could keep fluid above the inlet/outlet level to purge air. David
Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:26 AM
Subject: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
> Hi, all
>
> I'm still searching for a donor car ( I have my heart set on a Toyota
Echo)
> so I can start work now that it's warming up here ( Rochester NY). The
> problem is finding one with manual steering. A few of these were sold
with
> manual steering ( according to the local dealer) but mostly with power
> steering in this country. I've found a couple of likely cars, so far,
> except none with manual steering.
>
> I could buy a power steering car, and just drain the fluid and use it as
a
> manual. The ratio is a bit faster than the manual rack ( 19.5 : 1 for the
> manual rack, 17.1:1 for the power-assisted) , so effort would be higher,
but
> I'm not too worried about that - it will still be a fairly light car, and
> the tires will be pumped pretty hard - probably enough to make up for the
> faster ratio. My plan (for now) is to keep the front axle loading about
the
> same as the original, and add weight ( and stiffer springs) to the rear.
>
> How have all of you solved this problem? Is using power steering as
manual
> commonly done with ev's?
>
> Are there any safety concerns about using a power steering rack as a
manual
> - as far as reliability of the rack being used differently than it was
> designed for? Will steering be harder because of the extra hardware in
the
> rack ( even if I drain the fluid)?
>
> I'm eager to get my hands on a car and get to work, so I'm about ready to
> give up looking for a manual steering car, but I don't want to make a
> mistake I'll regret later.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil Marino
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
> http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
>
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Uhh, you don't float every night?
Limit the current to 1/4 amp or so and do it every night.
Seth
On Feb 27, 2004, at 7:13 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
Question: Last night I decided to float charge the dead Hawker on the
charger at 14 volts overnight. Today after leaving it off charge all
day it rreads a nice 13.0 volts and has no problem with the load
tester (500 CCA as opposed to <300 before with a "full charge")
The Hawker manuals say to float charge a pack every once in awhile;
does anyone see any danger in doing this? I'm thinking of
reporgramming the MagneCharger on the prizm to apply a steady 13.7
volts per battery CV charge on the pack for eight hours. What is the
risks?
Chris
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>From my experience at 48v and a top speed of 40 with the Lectra I would
imagine that 72v should be capable of 60 mph with good hill climbing with
only one gear. I am using 12 and 54 sprockets and have no trouble keeping
up with traffic and climbing any hill. So at 72v I should be able to go 60
with better hill climbing and accelereation. I'm not sure what the
Reverend's pack weighs but I sure do want to know. My pack is about 250
pounds or so. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 5:10 AM
Subject: RE: The EMW goes for a test ride
> Reverend Gadget wrote:
>
> > Took the bike out for a test drive tonight, just
> > around the parking lot, as I have'nt connected the
> > lights yet. It feels like it has more acceleration
> > taking off in fourth than it did before with the ICE.
> > I will post some pictures to my website tonight. I've
> > built other ev's before for off road use but never for
> > performance. That big ole' grin is contagious.
>
> I'm very interested in this project. The shaft drive BMWs look good as
> conversion candidates because they have a separate sealed transmission.
> I personally think a transmission is necessary on a "daily rider" EM
> (Electric Motorcycle) because direct drive makes for poor bottom-end
> grunt with a single motor. More importantly, the low numerical gearing
> necessary for direct drive keeps you in the poor motor efficiency range
> at low speeds. Range is even harder to get on an EM than an electric
> car or truck, so efficiency is Very Important.
>
> Your adaptation of an ADC A89 to the BMW gearbox is very slick. I can
> see that it should be possible to have a completed EM that has a very
> integrated, non-rolling-science-project look to it. Perhaps you could
> use the fuel tank to make a mold for a fiberglass cover that would blend
> into covers/fairings over the batteries?
>
> While tossing around ideas for a similar project, I figured the older
> BMWs would make a better conversion donor. Not because they're better
> bikes, I much prefer the K series that you've chosen. But the ICE
> versions of the K75 are about 100 lbs. heavier that the old /5, /6 and
> /7 series air-cooled boxers. Its hard to imagine the water-cooled K75
> engine is that much heavier. Did you weigh your K75 with all the ICE
> bits removed? That is perhaps the most critical number for anyone
> considering a particular EM conversion. If you have that info, please
> post!
>
> Chris
>
>
> P.S. I'm a little fuzzy on this, but I read awhile back that some K
> series BMWs had a reliability issue with their shaft drive. Something
> about a joint or coupling not having enough lube, or being hard enough
> to get to that recommended lubrication wasn't being done. I would check
> with a BMW guru and find out what's up so you can take care of this
> before the bike is buttoned up for good.
>
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Looking for a small 2-4 hp cont sep-ex motor that runs about 2K rpm on 48
Volts. Anyone got one they want to sell reasonable or better yet cheap? I
have checked my usual sources and have not come up with much. David Chapman.
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At 04:16 AM 02/26/2004, you wrote:
At 11:52 26/02/2004, you wrote:
I am just hoping for $4-5 a gallon to thin out the SUVs... and to
jump-start the EV industry.
Well imagine in the UK where petrol (gas) is $5.30 per US gallon (at 1.8
USD to the UKP).
which is why there is an EV available for lease in your country!
brad
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The Hawker manual says that the battery life expectancy for CV float
charging at 13.5V-13.8V is 10 years. But you really need to read the
various application manuals which recommend a variety of charging
regiments.
Alex Karahalios
On Feb 27, 2004, at 5:13 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
The Hawker manuals say to float charge a pack every once in awhile;
does anyone see any danger in doing this? I'm thinking of
reporgramming the MagneCharger on the prizm to apply a steady 13.7
volts per battery CV charge on the pack for eight hours. What is the
risks?
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Yeah,
I've been meaning to do this for some time now. I don't have the old brush,
but here is a picture of where it needs to go. It is a very simple design
and any piece of carbon that I can shape to the right size should work. The
original brush fit in this channel which is about 3/8 in wide and 1 inch
from the top edge to the coils on the variac. It had a small bracket that I
will have to remake, but basically the brush was an 3d rectangle with the
shoulders notched out of the contact end to make a tip which comes down and
makes physical contact. The bracket allowed the tip to protrude through at
the bottom and held a spring on the top to keep the brush in contact. The
variac was rated at 18 amps. The carbon also had some braided wire embedded
in it which was attached to the bracket. If you have something that you
think I can modify to fit these dimensions that would be great. The whole
charger is sitting there ready to go except for the brush.
thanks
damon
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:18:17 -0700
Damon, send me a picture or measurements and discription of that variac
brush and I will see if I dont have one laying around or one that could be
modified. If I do I will be happy to send it to you courtesy of
"Brush-Mart"
. David Chapman.
PS that motorized variac thing sounds interesting. I got a bunch of variacs
in the last load of stuff and a uP might just be a great controller. I have
salvaged a feeder out of a wire welder and I have a few stepper motors of
various sizes laying around to play with. Say, one thought, isnt there a
control card you can put into a pc to run a stepper motor off of? I swear I
have seen one and my thought is 486s are being given/thrown away (just ask
Rick Prior, he won't even park his car close when he comes over for fear of
me slipping a few more goodies in it), wouldn't one of those be a good
albeit large controller with plenty of capability for more monitoring
features? No sense re-inventing the wheel..Heck if you were in the area I
would let you dig through my Junqueyard of old computers and "stuff" you
could probably build 10 pcs and help me make some space. Got another load
coming in this weekend. DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Playing with a Basic Stamp
> Since I lost the brush on my 18amp variac, just as I was completing my
new
> dumb charger I have been trying to figure out exactly what I want to do
to
> charge my motorcycle.
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