EV Digest 3382
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Long term storage of Nicads
by "Semb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Surge Protection
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Dynasty shed battery mystery solved...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Surge Protection
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OTRabbit knowledgeable HELP!
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV Button Instructions -- Not for the Faint-Hearted!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV Button Instructions -- Not for the Faint-Hearted!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fw: zev-program FINAL APPROVAL/OAL ACTION
by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: zev-program FINAL "LOL" ACTION
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: new question was AC induction vs BLDC
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Surge Protection
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) BLDC on a go cart
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: BLDC on a go cart
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rewinding a charger transformer - strange turns.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Long term storage of Nicads
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Power steering question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OTRabbit knowledgeable HELP!
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: new question was AC induction vs BLDC
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) why use BLDC
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) GP at PIR?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV Button Instructions -- Not for the Faint-Hearted!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) (Fwd) EDTA Announces New Co-Chairman--Press Release
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: GP at PIR?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re:dyno2
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Motor properties
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: OTRabbit knowledgeable HELP!
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Rewinding a charger transformer - strange turns.
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Yes, I see now after a night's sleep that putting extra water in the
battery was a screaming mistake. I should have put just enough to look a
bit "wet"; this is not a flooded battery.
I'll check on the battery this morning. If there is still a lot of free
water in the cells I can simply discharge it to flat zero (all sulphur
on the plates) then drain out the extra water (which since it will be
dead will be pretty much pure h2o)
Should be interesting.
Chris
Joe Smalley wrote:
I put 10 cc of water in each cell of a Concorde AGM. That was how much it
took to go from dry looking to shiny and no free liquid.
The capacity went from 48 AHr to 78 AHr on the next full cycle.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: Dynasty shed battery mystery solved...
Well, I took a small screwdriver and a hammer to the tops of that dead
Dynasty 12-370 battery in the shed. Under the ratings sticker are a pair
of sealed cap-strips. I removed them with gentle prying via screwdriver
and hammer (Chris wears safety glasses and the like). Took them off and
peered inside the battery
Dry as a bone.
Totally dry. The tops of the plates had a thin sheet of what looked like
crud on them. My guess is sulphuric acid without water or something.
That's what I would hear rattle.
So I tried filling the ports with distilled water. Just enough to cover
the plates and a bit took almost half a gallon of water. I could hear
little hissings as I filled the cells.
Put it on charge; it's not drawing any current yet. We'll see in an
hour; I'll leave the caps on but loose overnight and see what happens.
I also took the caps off an *old* sealed battery. I think what I saw in
there was the battery interconnects; destroyed by the concentrated acid.
Not sure, but that would explain one mystery: Why batteries fail in
quantum 2 volt amounts. Perhaps the cell dries out, the concentrated
sulphuric acid remains cause the interconnects to fail and the debris
shorts a cell. Or the dried out cell simply becomes a conductor,
shorting itself out.
We shall see. Interesting though; next step is to take it's good sister
apart and see if it is dry. I might just want to "water" these sealed
batteries; any idea how much water they should get?
Chris
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Yes, they can be. Some early 1990s chargers would "lock up" and go to
full power in the event of a brownout due to the lack of a watchdog
inside the charger. But the chargers I know of that do that are
probably all dead by now. I suspect this can happen to other chargers
if the power is cycled quickly. I don't know about surges,
specifically.
Seth
On Feb 28, 2004, at 8:28 AM, Peter Eckhoff wrote:
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Hi All;
This is a tad off topic, but there is a bunch of Rabbit guyz on here?
Right? I mean for the old Diseasel ones. I hava 81 stock Diesel, Parts on
the hoof, sorta speak. I saved it's life at a junkyard, and it has rewarded
me very well by runnung faithfully for about 4 years. Of late I have had an
internmittant electrical problem. The lights and EVERYTHING on the car will
go out. Embarrasing at nite on the road! To get it to lite, you pry apart
the red lead from the battery, of course while it is running, the're are TWO
basic cables on the battery. Voila! The lites and everything electrical come
back, albiet, I think off the alternater? "No charge" lite comes on if you
have the brights on as well as the wipers,.Car, I think is running on just
the alternator. When ya stop, ya have to plug that lead back in to get it to
crank, then unplug to get lights. But it works sometimes, so that clip/plug
is OK? but I have problems elsewhere? I had a Jetta with so MANY electrical
problems that I had a cobweb of "add ons" to get the @#$% tail lites,
ignition, Stop lites and turn signals to work.When I sold it I had to give
the kid a 15 minute tuitorial of WHAT all the extra wires did!But the damn
car RAN so faithfully, that I was willing to put up with it. Funny ,I don't
miss the old jetta, with my newer Prius. So far this virus has left my
Electric Rabbit alone. Any ideas of WHERE to begin, on thuis one?
The other problem, with the ElectricWabbit is how to bleed the front
calipers after changing out a front brake line, aftere the @#$% bleeder
screw brakes off flush with the caliper casting! Never broke open the lines
in years, and it is an old car. I see myself drilling the damn thing out,
tapping , putting a bolt and naybe brass washer to seal it after bleeding.
Pumping and PUMPING with the rubber line loose doesn't seem to get the air
out!
Ideas? So much for my weakend Automotive projects. Oh! for a simple brake
job, or watewring the batteries<g>!
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm not with the parallel pack. I'd think you would want the extra
capacity when using the button. Lawrence Rhodes.......
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:32:18 -0000
From: "mwbueno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EV Button Instructions -- Not for the Faint-Hearted!
Hi All:
OK, here it is; the illustrated way I have added an EV Button my
Americas version of the '04 Prius.
As always, please know that I cannot & will not be held liable for
any harm, damage or anything else negative resulting from copying
what I have done. Should you decide to copy me and apply this
modification to your car; you will be doing so at your own risk and
discretion.
I have done enough testing to determine that I will keep the EV
Button in my '04 Prius with little worry about any harm coming to my
system as long as I run the EV Button when my additional Ah of HV
Battery are out of parallel with the OEM NiMH.
I am still quite in the middle of testing with the extra Ah of HV
Battery in parallel and am not even close to feeling secure about
this yet and so I will not post on it or share how I am doing it
yet; so please don't ask me offline at this time. I have always
shared my work when I feel secure about it and I promise to share
how to do a joint EV Button and Extra HV Battery in parallel if I
ever come to feeling secure about it.
I do feel OK about sharing the EV Button only at this time. I have
prepared an illustration depicting how I have done this modification
which can be seen at:
http://www.seawell.net//Prius/04Photos/EVButtonMod.jpg
I do not have the part number for the receptacle mentioned in the
above illustration. I happened to have a receptacle & wire that fit
the plug and I used it for this modification.
What the illustration does not talk about is; once you install a
receptacle and wire into hole #27 in connector H14 of the HV ECU,
you will need to hook it up to a momentary switch or button that
will take that wire to vehicle ground momentarily. This will
activate the EV Button version of the EV Mode in the '04 Prius. I
chose a momentary switch from Radio Shack. I will not make a
suggestion for this switch as almost any momentary switch will work
just fine.
Anyone that does not feel secure in attempting this modification
with this much information and the above illustration really should
not attempt it at all. I will not, at this time provide any more
information than is contained in the above referenced illustration
and this message.
Again, if you do try to copy what I have done, you are doing so at
your own risk and discretion.
Regards,
Wayne
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:31:19 -0000
From: "mwbueno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EV Button Instructions -- Not for the Faint-Hearted!
Hi Larry,
I don't mind answering that. You are correct in that a second and
momentary push of the button will cancel the EV Mode and is often
followed by the startup of the ICE.
In fact, here is a quick review of what happens in my car:
1) The EV Button will cause a cold ICE to not start if pressed
within seconds (for me usually under 7 seconds) and set the Prius
in "Stealth" or EV mode for movement.
2) The EV Button is capable of putting the car into EV Mode after
the ICE has started under the following conditions:
2a) The ICE is sufficiently warmed up
2b) You are traveling less than 30 MPH
2c) The HV Battery SOC is above 2 bars on the Battery Icon
2d) You have the shift selector in "D" or you are stopped & in "P"
3) If the HV Battery SOC is sufficiently high, you can take the
Prius up to 35 MPH before the ICE will start.
4) When in EV Button activated EV Mode the Prius will operate on as
much as 136 Amps or 27 kW or 36.2 horsepower worth of pure
electrical power before asking for the ICE to start. This compares
to non EV Button activated EV Mode of 50 Amps or 10 kW or 13.4
horsepower maximum before asking for ICE assistance.
5) Maximum EV Button activated speed is 35 MPH & maximum normal EV
Mode is 42 MPH.
6) As a point of interest and something that I will hopefully be
able to share more about with the group in the near future is; I
have added 12 Ah of PbA or Lead-Acid batteries to the HV Battery
system and I was able to travel 4.3 miles @ 22 MPH steady with an EV
Button activated EV mode just a couple of days ago in testing. This
particular set of PbA batteries are only about 33% as effective as
the OEM NiMH battery in our Prius. I should be testing soon with 01-
03 NiMH modules and I expect that my range will be very close to 6.5
miles with that many Ah of 01-03 NiMH module power tied in parallel.
Regards,
Wayne
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wayne -
>
> I am assuming, and we all know what that means, that a second
activation of
> the momentary switch turns off EV mode. If you feel comfortable
answering,
> I would appreciate a confirmation or correction.
>
> Thank you so much for sharing your amazing knowledge about this
car.. You
> inspire and challenge me to dig deeper and learn all I can about
this
> wonderful car..
>
> Larry Hainer
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What kills me is that hydrogen fuel cells were first
demonstrated in 1839 by Sir William Robert Grove and
the first usable one was shown by Francis T. Bacon in
1959. GM's first fuel cell van, the Electrovan was
built in 1966. Lithium batteries, on the other hand,
have only been around since the 1970's and
rechargables weren't commercialized until 1991 by
Sony. Lithium polymer batteries are even newer.
However, the Guru's of CARB have decreed that state of
the art lithium batteries have become a mature
technology ... in five to ten short years. However,
hydrogen fuel cells are still an emerging technology
165 years after invention and almost forty years after
GM first used them to power a vehicle. Go figure.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel like "emphasizing the
positive" with CARB. They have been a miserable
failure for at least 5 years. Not only are we wasting
money to pay the salaries of these bureaucrats, but we
are also wasting even more tax money supporting more
fuel cell "research". Most of the board and staff at
CARB desperately need to be fired as they are clearly
now immune to any logic. In my opinion, it's time to
stop wasting energy trying to work with them and start
working to get them replaced. Where's Donald Trump
when you need him?
-Sam
--- Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
> Despite all the above, I believe we need to
> emphasize the positive with
> CARB. The state has it's heart set on being a key
> fuel cell research
> and development center. Fine; and what a sensible
> complement to this
> work would be the provision of similar services and
> facilities toward
> establishing a battery R&D center. The cost would
> increase less than a
> stand-alone operation would cost. Testing methods
> and even equipment
> would have much in common. And, frankly, a healthy
> competition could
> develop internally between the two camps.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
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At 11:02 AM -0800 on 2/27/04, Lee Hart wrote:
They've been discontinued. Besides, the programs allowed for the
'bricks' was rather severely limited by the software that ran on the PC.
However, several groups have 'hacked' the brick's micro, and wrote their
own development system to support it.
Then there was the mild amusement that the software was Windows only.
The only reason this was odd is that the original software as written
by MIT was for PC, Mac, and (I think) UN*X. You could buy the older
software direct from MIT for a while, but Lego refused to support it.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
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<<I'm sorry, but I don't feel like "emphasizing the
positive" with CARB. They have been a miserable
failure for at least 5 years. Not only are we wasting
money to pay the salaries of these bureaucrats, but we
are also wasting even more tax money supporting more
fuel cell "research". Most of the board and staff at
CARB desperately need to be fired as they are clearly
now immune to any logic. In my opinion, it's time to
stop wasting energy trying to work with them and start
working to get them replaced. Where's Donald Trump
when you need him?>>
or maybe some haughty British lady with glasses needs to tell them all
"You...are the weakest link" (in getting EVs on the road).
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> --- Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ok, I was referring to field weakening permanent
> > magnet 3 phase AC
> > synchronous machines. Specifically in the 5-200kW
> > size you might see in
> > a ground vehicle.
There is a company called Dura-Trac in Ft Wayne
Indiana that is building these motors with a sliding
rotor. the rotors slides axially to provide field
weakening. it is actuated by the motor contoller and
begins to move at about 3500 rpm. The first product is
in a 12" diameter package. It's a Big motor. And it
has a 10,000 rpm red line. They are designing it for
use in delivery trucks. I recently talked to the
company and they said they should have product
available by this summer. If you read their marketing
package these motors sound amazing....
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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--- Begin Message ---
> Are voltage spikes, transient surges, etc. a problem with chargers and
other EV related equipment? If so, what sort of surge protection do you all
use to > protect your equipment?
Yes! When you turn on two PFC-20s togeather, expect voltage spikes and
brownouts on every outlet in the house...
Oh! You meant do voltage spikes _damage_ chargers?
Well, yes and no.
Most dumb and semi-smart [bad boy and light dimmer style] chargers will take
a fair amount of abuse in the noisy-power department. Switching chargers
like the PFC-20s are a titch more fragile - it's a good idea to put some big
MOVs on their input, especially if you're going to run them on 'dirty' power
like a genset. [Rich doesn't approve of doing this in-box so I have a
special extension cord - a 50A 220V power strip, if you will - which has a
bunch of MOVs in it.
I think the Brusa chargers already have transient supression built into
them.
In general, if your charger has a microprocessor, clean power can't hurt.
S.
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I installed my 100A BLDC control on my daughters
Go cart Friday night and did some test driving
around the hood on Saturday (about 4 miles worth).
Quite an impressive package using a 5" diameter motor
with a Neodymium-Iron-Boron rotor. This motor was
designed
for 24 Volts, but I'm running it at 48V.
Top speed is about 30 MPH and it has no problem
pulling steep hills with a 170lb rider.
Now I have to write software to limit top speed
for the kids (that includes braking so they don't
cheat and try to go extra fast down the big hills.)
All of my testing was with no heatsink on the FET's.
I'm using 4 IRFP2907 FETs per phase leg, 4.5mohm and
75V, 180A at 25C and 108A at 100C.
Once I get the aluminum casting for the control
current limit goes up to 150Amps (then higher, until
I blow something up, Rich is a bad influence!).
Rod
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Rod Hower wrote:
>
> I installed my 100A BLDC control on my daughters
> Go cart Friday night and did some test driving
> around the hood on Saturday (about 4 miles worth).
> Quite an impressive package using a 5" diameter motor
> with a Neodymium-Iron-Boron rotor. This motor was
> designed
> for 24 Volts, but I'm running it at 48V.
> Top speed is about 30 MPH and it has no problem
> pulling steep hills with a 170lb rider.
> Now I have to write software to limit top speed
> for the kids (that includes braking so they don't
> cheat and try to go extra fast down the big hills.)
> All of my testing was with no heatsink on the FET's.
> I'm using 4 IRFP2907 FETs per phase leg, 4.5mohm and
> 75V, 180A at 25C and 108A at 100C.
> Once I get the aluminum casting for the control
> current limit goes up to 150Amps (then higher, until
> I blow something up, Rich is a bad influence!).
> Rod
Rod May the force be withyou!!. With 4 180 amps devices..... thats 720
amps a phase??? at the nominal current, and at 25 C. When you get 800
amps peak let me know.... In a BLDC controller, you can get over the
rating of the devices, since you know they are off for cooling for 120
Degrees of the AC drive wave form.
500 amps of 48 volts is a kick in the seat of the pants!!!.
Go water cooled inside the castings...longer hang time.
I have to go make a LOT of Grahite Dust, I am timing the AvDc motor for
the front of Gone Poastal...
On first glance this motoro is a LOT better prepared that the little
ones.,Prearced brushes, brushes with better than %80 swept faces.
It still looks like it has about 0.080 total air gaps. Abit loose for
me.
I do like working on totally factory new equipment!!! Clean pretty, no
Rod arc marks on it yet.....
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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At 03:16 AM 28/02/04 -0700, you wrote:
Isnt it going to be kind of expensive to rewind this transformer? Seems like
with a little hunting you could find a Fair Radio charger and go from there.
Thats what it sounds kinda like you are building and they run off 220. Or
what about a good sized Variac? David Chapman.
Hi David
Thanks for your thoughts, although it will cost a bit to have it rewound,
at "mates rates" at the winding shop will probably be cheaper than just the
freight to get a fair radio charger shipped to the antipodes (ie half-way
around the planet), without waiting six months to get it here. I would also
be concerned that running a Fair Radio charger that is rated for 220V at up
to 250V input at full power may be a bit hard on it. I can also make the
formers to have it wound onto, and do the reassembly myself, saving a bit
there.
On the subject of variacs, I have several including 10A, 15A and a 25A one.
But how do you propose that I automate the cut back of the charge rate when
the regulators cut in without a lot of mechanical complexity? I also
would't get 35-40A charge rate.
I am pretty settled on having the charger I've got rewound, but I want to
make certain that there are no surprises in the way it was made, since in
the days of "double-breasted sand-shoes and leather flywheels" they used a
lot of cunning methods that got them around problems that we don't have
today. And it's embarrasing to get caught out by these tricks.
Regards
James Massey
'78 Daihatsu truck in progress
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
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--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Feb 2004 at 11:57, Semb wrote:
> I have several STM 5-100 Nicad's which I'm planning to store in a cold
> (10�C), dry basement for a couple of years. Some advice of how to store them
> (charged/uncharged/shorted) are much appreciated !
Store them uncharged. DO NOT short these modules as you would a single
cell, because that will lead to reversal of individual cells within the
module.
No periodic maintenance is needed.
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--- Begin Message ---
I have run my mitsubish truck with a power steering gearbox in which I
filled it 1/2 full of fluid and put a jumper hose from input to output.
I did it bacause I was autocrossing it and wanted something faster than
4 turns lock to lock It has been about 127,000 miles so far. It was
harder to turn at first, but when I altered the alignment I found I
could go from Mac truck to MG migit by reducing caster.
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--- Begin Message ---
Bob-
For the first, you buy a new molded battery positive lead. They corrode
inside the lead and fail in the way you describe. $60 at the dealer
last time I bought one. Or you get some #4 and #8 or thereabouts and a
new lead clamp and fashion your own.
For the 2nd, buy a new caliper. O r a remanufactured one. Probably
$20-40 at pep boy/vip auto. The bleeders are horrid on those if they
have seen salt. '81caliper is the KH II which is common on 1981 rabbits
to 1992 golf/jetta, and maybe even later. Anti sieze the beleeder
during install. WHen you fit the new caliper, I find letting gravity do
it's trick and leeting lots of fluid run through does a fine bleed job
on a VW of that vintage. Little/ no pumping required.
HTH
Seth
On Feb 28, 2004, at 10:44 AM, bobrice wrote:
Hi All;
This is a tad off topic, but there is a bunch of Rabbit guyz on here?
Right? I mean for the old Diseasel ones. I hava 81 stock Diesel, Parts
on
the hoof, sorta speak. I saved it's life at a junkyard, and it has
rewarded
me very well by runnung faithfully for about 4 years. Of late I have
had an
internmittant electrical problem. The lights and EVERYTHING on the car
will
go out. Embarrasing at nite on the road! To get it to lite, you pry
apart
the red lead from the battery, of course while it is running, the're
are TWO
basic cables on the battery. Voila! The lites and everything
electrical come
back, albiet, I think off the alternater? "No charge" lite comes on if
you
have the brights on as well as the wipers,.Car, I think is running on
just
the alternator. When ya stop, ya have to plug that lead back in to get
it to
crank, then unplug to get lights. But it works sometimes, so that
clip/plug
is OK? but I have problems elsewhere? I had a Jetta with so MANY
electrical
problems that I had a cobweb of "add ons" to get the @#$% tail lites,
ignition, Stop lites and turn signals to work.When I sold it I had to
give
the kid a 15 minute tuitorial of WHAT all the extra wires did!But the
damn
car RAN so faithfully, that I was willing to put up with it. Funny ,I
don't
miss the old jetta, with my newer Prius. So far this virus has left my
Electric Rabbit alone. Any ideas of WHERE to begin, on thuis one?
The other problem, with the ElectricWabbit is how to bleed the
front
calipers after changing out a front brake line, aftere the @#$% bleeder
screw brakes off flush with the caliper casting! Never broke open the
lines
in years, and it is an old car. I see myself drilling the damn thing
out,
tapping , putting a bolt and naybe brass washer to seal it after
bleeding.
Pumping and PUMPING with the rubber line loose doesn't seem to get the
air
out!
Ideas? So much for my weakend Automotive projects. Oh! for a simple
brake
job, or watewring the batteries<g>!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah. they sure sound that way...
I assume an axial gap, axial flux motor. Often with little (nearly no)
inductance, a jillion poles and kind of sensitive to hall effect sensor
placement. Some people like them, some don't. There are other motors
out there that are actually working right now, so don't wait expecting
this one to be the holy grail, it probably isn't. Bodine makes a
smaller unit for solar car racers.
Seth
On Feb 28, 2004, at 4:04 PM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
--- Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ok, I was referring to field weakening permanent
magnet 3 phase AC
synchronous machines. Specifically in the 5-200kW
size you might see in
a ground vehicle.
There is a company called Dura-Trac in Ft Wayne
Indiana that is building these motors with a sliding
rotor. the rotors slides axially to provide field
weakening. it is actuated by the motor contoller and
begins to move at about 3500 rpm. The first product is
in a 12" diameter package. It's a Big motor. And it
has a 10,000 rpm red line. They are designing it for
use in delivery trucks. I recently talked to the
company and they said they should have product
available by this summer. If you read their marketing
package these motors sound amazing....
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Packaging?, it is an appropriate choice for thin with relativly large
dia AND a big hole thru center. Like between motor and tranny. I don't
think I've ever seen a 2.5" long induction motor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So when does the track open on sunday?
What's the ETA for Gone Postal?
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:06:40 -0000
From: "mwbueno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EV Button Instructions -- Not for the Faint-Hearted!
Yes, I have figured a way around the error. I am testing for
reliability and NiMH SOC invisibility & protection right now. This
is complicated and will take me some time before I feel secure about
releasing this info. I need to test a new idea I had just last
night too! I promise to share when done and secure that no one will
be hurt by such a mod.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Good job. This is the first I have heard of anyone getting this
far. Some
> have done it but they reset the computer every charging cycle to
fool it
> into thinking nothing is wrong. Have you figured out that
problem. The
> problem being the computer will give an error if it sees a full
charge when
> the motor didn't put the ahrs in. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Send reply to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Jennifer Watts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EDTA Announces New Co-Chairman--Press Release
Date sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:11:09 -0500
Good Afternoon,
Attached is a press release with details regarding the announcement of
Edward B. Cohen of Honda North America as Co-Chairman of the EDTA Board of
Directors.
Please call with questions.
Jennifer Watts
Communications Associate
EDTA
1350 I Street, NW
Suite 1050
Washington, DC 20005
202.408.0774
202.408.7610 fax
www.electricdrive.org
------- Forwarded press release follows -------
February 27, 2004�Washington, D.C.�The Electric Drive Transportation
Association (EDTA) announces the appointment of Edward B. Cohen as Co-
Chairman of the EDTA Board of Directors. Mr. Cohen is the Vice
President of Government and Industry Relations for Honda North
America, and succeeds Douglas West of Toyota, who served as EDTA Co-
Chairman during 2003.
EDTA is a non-profit association that promotes the widespread market
adoption of electric drive technologies. EDTA�s membership
represents a diverse consortium of energy providers, vehicle
manufacturers and their suppliers, and state and local governments.
Mr. Cohen is responsible for all federal and state government
relations for Honda, as well as its industry relationships in
Washington. Prior to joining Honda in 2000, Mr. Cohen served as
Deputy Solicitor of the U.S. Department of the Interior and Counselor
to the Secretary, where he provided legal and policy leadership
regarding natural resource, environmental and land management issues
to the Secretary and seven constituent agencies of the Department.
Mr. Cohen holds a BA from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and a
JD from Georgetown University Law Center, and is a member of the Bar
of the District of Columbia.
As Co-Chairman of EDTA, Mr. Cohen will be responsible for directing
EDTA�s activities primarily through policy, conferences and public
education initiatives. Mr. Cohen also will monitor activities of
EDTA�s standing committees, which include Public Policy, Conferences
and Media Relations.
EDTA Co-Chairman Eugene Zeltmann, President and CEO of the New York
Power Authority, says, �Honda has made a remarkable commitment to
bring electric drive into the global marketplace. Mr. Cohen�s
appointment to EDTA�s Board of Directors reinforces the company�s
serious commitment to advanced transportation, and his leadership
will be of tremendous value to EDTA�s members.�
Departing EDTA Co-Chairman Douglas West has been appointed president
and chief executive officer of Aichi USA 2005, the Washington, D.C.-
based organization responsible for developing the U.S. participation
World Exposition 2005 in Aichi, Japan.
Other EDTA Board of Directors include: Treasurer Frank Ingriselli (G-
Vest); Secretary and Communications/Outreach Chairman Edward Kjaer
(Southern California Edison); Conferences Chairman Ed LaRocque
(Toyota); and Public Policy Chairman Curt Magleby (Ford). EDTA�s Co-
Chairmen traditionally serve for two years, and an energy provider
and a major automotive manufacturer represent the two positions. ##
EDTA is an international association representing the development,
production and use of battery, hybrid and fuel cell electric drive
technologies and supporting infrastructure. EDTA serves as the
central source of information on all of the technical, market and
policy issues surrounding the emergence of electric drive, and serves
as the representative of the Americas to the World Electric Vehicle
Association (WEVA). For more information about EDTA, visit
www.electricdrive.org or call 202.408.0774.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
>
> So when does the track open on sunday?
> What's the ETA for Gone Postal?
>
> L8r
> Ryan
NO NO NO!!! there will be no racing at PR in Seattle this weekend!!! we
hear there are still D8 bulldozers on the actual track surface. READ the
track is still all torn up.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
Ok some of you want to see the Dyno
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/dyno22804.jpg
This is as it is, this afternoon. The New AvDC 9 incher is under test on
the bench, 12 volt brush Breakin is underway.
The Blue case to the left of the dyno frame is the GE 9 incher that came
out of the Gone Poastal van.
The Actual Dyno frame has my XP-1263 8 incher AvDC moveable brush head
on the far end and a a Stocker Sparrow spec 8 incher on the near end.
There are no high end controls or data sensors on the frame yet. I can
load down a motor. I plan on having about a 400 amp load setup for final
brush breaking on the AvDC 9 incher before I send it back to Rod.
Hopefully by next weekend I will have some form of collecting ft/lbs
readings.
The bottom of the Down load section , in pictures, also has some shots
of Brush breakin efforts.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/9freshbrush.jpg
this is as the brush came out of the motor from AvDc.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/9radiusedbrush.jpg
The next shot is of the brush completely sanded down so the entire face
is in contact with the 220 grit Wet/Dry sand paper, wrapped around the
commutator. The next shot will be of the brush after about 4 hours of
spining at 14 volts. I have not shot it yet, but will do that Right
soon.
The next break in step is to time the motor for 13 Deg. after finding
the Actual nuetral point.
Once this is found , the holes drilled, Tapped,and the brush head back
on, I am going to install it onto the dyno and find away to apply 400
amp 48 volt pulses to it.
The goal is to have the brushes completely smooth, and totally lapped
into the comm, and ready for racing.
Well as ready as I can get....There are others who have higher
standards, I just don't know them yet.
Off to shoot a brush photo.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
I was discussing series motor characteristics with Rich tonight and I had an
idea about how to characterize motors.
If the RPM, Current, Armature voltage and Field voltage of a series DC motor
were measured at three different RPMs, then the behavior of the motor might
be predictable when operated with a load.
I measured a AC4-4002 tonight (72 volt rating) and got the following:
Test 1:
6.4 RPS = 384 RPM
16.5 Amps
147 mV on field
2.53 V on Armature
Test 2:
11.8 RPS = 708 RPM
17.4 Amps
157 mV on field
3.95 V on Armature
Test 3:
17.4 RPS = 1044 RPM
17.8 Amps
163 mV on field
5.41 V on Armature
>From this data I calculated:
The field resistance is 9 milliohms
The Armature resistance is 65 milliohms
The back EMF is 228 milliohms per 1000 RPM
Friction is 83 watts per 1000 RPM plus 12 watts
I seem to remember Lee Hart had a calculation that took this information and
would produce an estimate of the torque being produced by the motor.
If I recall correctly it went something like this:
If this motor were operated on 72 Volts at 3000 RPM:
Then the Predictions are:
Motor current 95 amps
Input power 6840 watts
Field resistance heating 81 watts
Armature resistance heating 586 watts
Windage and friction losses 261 watts
HP produced 7.892
Efficiency 86.4%
Torque produced 13.8 ft*LB
Amps per Foot pound = 6.87
Would someone make the three measurements on some other motors to see how
they compare?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Bob, from my wrenchin days I seem to recall that those cars suffered a real
weird problem with the fuse box getting damp. I know it sounds strange but
IIRC it has something to do with it being mounted by the drivers leg/knee
area and there is a cowl drain that backs up or leaks on it under certain
conditions. Was enough of a problem that I used to keep a replacement fuse
block in stock at the shop and we swapped them out quite regularly. And all
the problems were of the bizzare intermittant type that you are describing.
Might be worth a serious wiggle or two and see if anything happens. It kinda
drops out/swings down on a hinge deal and can be unhinged for replacement as
a unit. Otherwise all I can say is Good Luck, and would you like to borrow a
DVM? LOL. Seeya around David "Rotodump" Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: OTRabbit knowledgeable HELP!
> Hi All;
>
> This is a tad off topic, but there is a bunch of Rabbit guyz on here?
> Right? I mean for the old Diseasel ones. I hava 81 stock Diesel, Parts on
> the hoof, sorta speak. I saved it's life at a junkyard, and it has
rewarded
> me very well by runnung faithfully for about 4 years. Of late I have had
an
> internmittant electrical problem. The lights and EVERYTHING on the car
will
> go out. Embarrasing at nite on the road! To get it to lite, you pry apart
> the red lead from the battery, of course while it is running, the're are
TWO
> basic cables on the battery. Voila! The lites and everything electrical
come
> back, albiet, I think off the alternater? "No charge" lite comes on if you
> have the brights on as well as the wipers,.Car, I think is running on just
> the alternator. When ya stop, ya have to plug that lead back in to get it
to
> crank, then unplug to get lights. But it works sometimes, so that
clip/plug
> is OK? but I have problems elsewhere? I had a Jetta with so MANY
electrical
> problems that I had a cobweb of "add ons" to get the @#$% tail lites,
> ignition, Stop lites and turn signals to work.When I sold it I had to give
> the kid a 15 minute tuitorial of WHAT all the extra wires did!But the damn
> car RAN so faithfully, that I was willing to put up with it. Funny ,I
don't
> miss the old jetta, with my newer Prius. So far this virus has left my
> Electric Rabbit alone. Any ideas of WHERE to begin, on thuis one?
>
> The other problem, with the ElectricWabbit is how to bleed the front
> calipers after changing out a front brake line, aftere the @#$% bleeder
> screw brakes off flush with the caliper casting! Never broke open the
lines
> in years, and it is an old car. I see myself drilling the damn thing out,
> tapping , putting a bolt and naybe brass washer to seal it after bleeding.
> Pumping and PUMPING with the rubber line loose doesn't seem to get the air
> out!
>
> Ideas? So much for my weakend Automotive projects. Oh! for a simple
brake
> job, or watewring the batteries<g>!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
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Snipped and Comments inserted!
> Thanks for your thoughts, although it will cost a bit to have it rewound,
> at "mates rates" at the winding shop will probably be cheaper than just
the
> freight to get a fair radio charger shipped to the antipodes (ie half-way
> around the planet), without waiting six months to get it here. I would
also
> be concerned that running a Fair Radio charger that is rated for 220V at
up
> to 250V input at full power may be a bit hard on it. I can also make the
> formers to have it wound onto, and do the reassembly myself, saving a bit
there.
So true. Too bad you don't have anyone you know deadheading home with 50#
luggage allowance to spare. Although there is a USPS global parcel post type
deal that is not too bad, just might take 4-6 weeks to get there. Oh well.
> On the subject of variacs, I have several including 10A, 15A and a 25A
one.
> But how do you propose that I automate the cut back of the charge rate
when
> the regulators cut in without a lot of mechanical complexity? I also
> would't get 35-40A charge rate.
That sounds like a job for Lee Hart. He could probably suggest something
using an old gum wrapper and a rubber band that would work great. Out of my
depth. I would toss out a stepper drive motor type deal idea, but thats
kinda complex. Well good luck no matter what you settle on. Regards David
Chapman.
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