EV Digest 3427
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery racks in progress
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Overunity motor? We'll see!
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Air conditioner and power steering pumps
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Current Eliminator at Firebird tonight
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Kostov versus ADC motors
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Productizing the Hart Regulator
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Diode blocking 2 strings of BAT's - ?
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Diode blocking 2 strings of BAT's - ?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Diode blocking 2 strings of BAT's - ?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fiat 850 For Sale
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Diode blocking 2 strings of BAT's - ?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) "Gone Postal" update
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Subject: More Garden Tractor Stuff
by JD & Heather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC-DC Converter
by "Mark Brueggemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: DC-DC Converter
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Overunity motor? We'll see!
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Tom Hanks = Big EV Fan
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) TEST
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Air conditioner and power steering pumps
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Testing the waters.. EV for sale MAYBE!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Subject: More Garden Tractor Stuff
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Tom Hanks talks on EV cars
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) NYT - EV Lessees Fight Back
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Diode blocking 2 strings of BAT's - ?
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Hawker 26's in my car that I pulled out (10 years old) all had signs
of swelling. They would all swell on the side parallel to the plates,
bulging out in the middle in a nice square. US Eletricar must have
expected this as the plastic spacers/shims between the batteries have
nice cutouts that frame the swelling. New batteries are flat as boards.
Chris
David Roden wrote:
On 26 Mar 2004 at 8:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The cylinder design
prevents any side swelling.
Optimas use cylindrical cells. Wouldn't conventional flat-plate construction
AGMs, such as Hawkers, still swell? (I don't know the answer, not having
used AGMs extensively, or intensively, in an EV application.)
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The question can arise whether with the development of such tech-
nological means of communication as radio, film, and the daily
press, freedom of thought is possible at all. Does this not mean
constant infection with whatever ideas are in circulation?
-- Czeslaw Milosz, 1942
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> List shows I sent an attachment. I didn't do it. What is going on? Is
is
> XP? Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
Lawrence I thing its overunity , Just talking about it has generated an
attachment,
>From the front battle field, Gen on a wheels , seem to be sliding to " run
an inverter from the 12v battery and plug in a battery charger to then
recharge that same 12v battery , use an inverter with 2 plugs and the other
plug is your free electric".
.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Assuming you are running a more or less ordinary pack voltage (100-144V)
this motor aught to do the trick:
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=18&category=174
The one at the top labeled "Treadmill Motor", 1.5-2 hp and $49.95
It's made by Pacific Scientific (which is a good company) and it's
perhaps a bit more powerful than you need (which means it's unlikely to
overheat).
This is the motor I have and will be using for AC (will it be powerful
enough for the PS too?). Since it runs about about 4800 rpm, I imagine
you'd want to gear it down - to about 1500 rpm. I'm planning on a dash
switch to turn it off on those 0-60 runs :)
-Ryan
--
Check out the Zilla rebates! http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
4- 12.95 passes with reaction times about.005 were really boring tonight.Runs
5 and 6 were handfuls...All The BIG BOY Harleys were there from around the
country burning Nitro,alki and some even on pump gas.Lo 7 second runs were the
norm for these guys,they seemed to have no problem hooking the track(ev drag
bikers who claim to have too much power that cant be hooked up should go to one
of these events)so I decided to give myself a couple of treats.Lower tire
pressure,a couple of clicks to the brush timing,and adjustments to the OLD SMALL
ZILLIA netted a tire spining 9.87 on run 5.Run 6 the car just did never hook
up,lots of tire spin and the car just floated to the right lane on and off the
throttle 4 more times netted more tire spin but also caught the eye of lots of
the harley folks who flocked to my pit with all the normal ev questions.
What a fun night Dennis Kilowatt Berube
currenteliminator.net
----------------------------------------------Back to brackets next
week-----------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:24 PM
Subject: Kostov versus ADC motors
> When I was planning my Ranger pickup conversion in 1995 I did
> consider using a Kostov motor instead of an ADC 9-inch motor.
> The main reasons I didn't use a Kostov was because almost no information
> was available about the Kostov's quality, durability, or performance.
> And there was practically no factory or dealer support available. It's
> now evident that I made the right choice to go with the ADC motor
> instead.
>
> When I first saw a Kostov, I noted that it had smaller brushes and
> commutator than the ADC 9-inch motors so I'm not surprised that
> a number of Kostov motors have had commutator and brush failures.
>
> Tom Shay
>
Hi All;
The big " selling point" with the Kostovs was not the chintzy brushes, but
the interpoles and the ability to regen, without the brush shifting bugaboo
that you would have with trying to regen with the ADC's with your 7 degree
brush angle. Too bad that they didn't have sturdier brushes and comms.Regen
was their good point, but after all, EV's at least cars, wasn't on the minds
of the guyz that designed it??
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am confused newbie.
If you had one reg per battery, and if one battery became "full", why
would you want to shut off the charger? What about the other batteries?
Thanks
Don
(still learning!)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
Sent: March 27, 2004 12:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
Doug, Sounds like a good plan to me. How about a discussion of
distributed vs centralized? Putting them on each battery will cut down
on the mess of wiring, unless you mount a photo cell on each one that
needs wiring back to the charger shutoff anyway. Centralizing the
system would require fusing to protect the extra wiring, but would make
it a lot easier to test bulbs and bypass everything for equalizing. How
much trouble would a latching device be, to show which batteries are
lighting up first? Thanks, Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:40 PM
Subject: Productizing the Hart Regulator
.................
> So tell me: is this a stupid idea? Why? Can it be improved into a
> smart idea?
>
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Bend, OR, USA
> http://learn-something.blogsite.org
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are three steps (two stages) to the algorithm:
1. Charge at maximum power to get the first reg to light (Bulk stage)
2. Charge at a reduced rate to keep the first reg from Smoking while the
rest of the batteries catch up (Acceptance stage)
3. Stop charging when the last reg comes on.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Productizing the Hart Regulator
> I am confused newbie.
>
> If you had one reg per battery, and if one battery became "full", why
> would you want to shut off the charger? What about the other batteries?
>
> Thanks
>
> Don
>
> (still learning!)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
> Sent: March 27, 2004 12:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
>
>
> Doug, Sounds like a good plan to me. How about a discussion of
> distributed vs centralized? Putting them on each battery will cut down
> on the mess of wiring, unless you mount a photo cell on each one that
> needs wiring back to the charger shutoff anyway. Centralizing the
> system would require fusing to protect the extra wiring, but would make
> it a lot easier to test bulbs and bypass everything for equalizing. How
> much trouble would a latching device be, to show which batteries are
> lighting up first? Thanks, Mark T.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:40 PM
> Subject: Productizing the Hart Regulator
>
>
> .................
>
> > So tell me: is this a stupid idea? Why? Can it be improved into a
> > smart idea?
> >
> > --
> > Doug Weathers
> > Bend, OR, USA
> > http://learn-something.blogsite.org
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Can anyone comment about what end one should place blocking diodes
positive or negative to prevent one string from discharging into the
other weaker string when running two parallel strings.
I think I will need two to accomplish this.
Planing on two 144 VDC AGM strings wired in parallel feeding into an 800
amp controller.
I hear that one needs to do this when running 2 packs in parallel.
I found for $60 bucks power diodes rated at 1000v, 800 amps so it should
be able to handle this with out any problems.
Thanks in advance.
Danny Ames
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My car uses dual contactors. One on the positive end of each string. They
don't need heat sinks like the diodes.
You will need diodes (or contactors) for the charger as well (unless you use
two chargers.)
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Ames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV SEND MSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Diode blocking 2 strings of BAT's - ?
> Hi,
> Can anyone comment about what end one should place blocking diodes
> positive or negative to prevent one string from discharging into the
> other weaker string when running two parallel strings.
> I think I will need two to accomplish this.
> Planing on two 144 VDC AGM strings wired in parallel feeding into an 800
> amp controller.
> I hear that one needs to do this when running 2 packs in parallel.
> I found for $60 bucks power diodes rated at 1000v, 800 amps so it should
> be able to handle this with out any problems.
> Thanks in advance.
> Danny Ames
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But the big question is when do you want the light to come on? The
Hawker batteries want to be rocked to 15 volts per battery, then let the
current come down to under .5 amps before you kick the controller into
stage 3 (up to 15.6 for 20 minutes, controlled current to apparently
charge the positive plate)
I can see regs being used to hold a voltage, but one would have to allow
the reg to bypass 14-18 amps in my case.
Chris
Joe Smalley wrote:
There are three steps (two stages) to the algorithm:
1. Charge at maximum power to get the first reg to light (Bulk stage)
2. Charge at a reduced rate to keep the first reg from Smoking while the
rest of the batteries catch up (Acceptance stage)
3. Stop charging when the last reg comes on.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Productizing the Hart Regulator
I am confused newbie.
If you had one reg per battery, and if one battery became "full", why
would you want to shut off the charger? What about the other batteries?
Thanks
Don
(still learning!)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
Sent: March 27, 2004 12:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
Doug, Sounds like a good plan to me. How about a discussion of
distributed vs centralized? Putting them on each battery will cut down
on the mess of wiring, unless you mount a photo cell on each one that
needs wiring back to the charger shutoff anyway. Centralizing the
system would require fusing to protect the extra wiring, but would make
it a lot easier to test bulbs and bypass everything for equalizing. How
much trouble would a latching device be, to show which batteries are
lighting up first? Thanks, Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:40 PM
Subject: Productizing the Hart Regulator
.................
So tell me: is this a stupid idea? Why? Can it be improved into a
smart idea?
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where are you planning on getting 800 amp diodes from? Also you'll
loose up to 500 watts across those diodes, you'll need a decent heatsink
to dissipate all that wasted power.
On Sat, 2004-03-27 at 17:58, Danny Ames wrote:
> Hi,
> Can anyone comment about what end one should place blocking diodes
> positive or negative to prevent one string from discharging into the
> other weaker string when running two parallel strings.
> I think I will need two to accomplish this.
> Planing on two 144 VDC AGM strings wired in parallel feeding into an 800
> amp controller.
> I hear that one needs to do this when running 2 packs in parallel.
> I found for $60 bucks power diodes rated at 1000v, 800 amps so it should
> be able to handle this with out any problems.
> Thanks in advance.
> Danny Ames
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you want is a three stage (four step) charge profile.
These were designed into the batreg Mk 2.
Here is the plan on the batreg Mk 2:
Reg threshold is set prior to start of charge (typically at time of
installation)
-The charger continuously measures the stress (temperature, heat, light,
etc.) of the regs.
-The pack is charged until the bypass threshold is reached by the highest
battery (bulk charge)
-The regulator on the highest battery starts to bypass causing stress on
that particular regulator.
-The charger cuts back on the power to keep that regulator from burning up.
(Start of acceptance charge)
-The charger monitors the rest of the regulators to see when the last
battery starts bypassing. (End of acceptance charge)
-The charger then turns off all the regulators and sets the current for
stage 3 charging for a fixed period at a fixed current regardless of
voltage.
-The charger shuts off at the end of the fixed period of time at the fixed
current.
The Regbus controls the Mk 2 regs with a disable signal. The line is
activated by putting 5 volts on the line to raise the threshold 10% (15
volts becomes 16.5 volts). Other ratios are available.
The Regbus monitors the Mk 2 regs with two lines: hot reg and cold reg. The
hottest reg puts its temperature on the hot reg line and the coldest reg
puts its temperature on the cold reg line. Both signals are analog and can
be read by an ADC.
These three features (disable, first lighted, and last lighted) need to be
implemented on the Hart Reg to implement this charge profile. 1) The disable
can be a relay energized through the bus so no power is taken from the
battery under test. 2) Parallel connected CdS cells on every light bulb can
give the stress level on the highest battery. 3) Series connected CdS cells
on every light bulb can give the stress level on the lowest battery.
With this arrangement, each reg would have two Zener diodes, one light bulb,
one relay, and two CdS cells on each battery. There would be four wires to
run from reg to reg with a fifth one to bring the series connection back to
the charger to detect the last battery to top off.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
> But the big question is when do you want the light to come on? The
> Hawker batteries want to be rocked to 15 volts per battery, then let the
> current come down to under .5 amps before you kick the controller into
> stage 3 (up to 15.6 for 20 minutes, controlled current to apparently
> charge the positive plate)
>
> I can see regs being used to hold a voltage, but one would have to allow
> the reg to bypass 14-18 amps in my case.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> > There are three steps (two stages) to the algorithm:
> > 1. Charge at maximum power to get the first reg to light (Bulk stage)
> > 2. Charge at a reduced rate to keep the first reg from Smoking while the
> > rest of the batteries catch up (Acceptance stage)
> > 3. Stop charging when the last reg comes on.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:47 PM
> > Subject: RE: Productizing the Hart Regulator
> >
> >
> >
> >>I am confused newbie.
> >>
> >>If you had one reg per battery, and if one battery became "full", why
> >>would you want to shut off the charger? What about the other batteries?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Don
> >>
> >>(still learning!)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
> >>Sent: March 27, 2004 12:46 PM
> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Subject: Re: Productizing the Hart Regulator
> >>
> >>
> >>Doug, Sounds like a good plan to me. How about a discussion of
> >>distributed vs centralized? Putting them on each battery will cut down
> >>on the mess of wiring, unless you mount a photo cell on each one that
> >>needs wiring back to the charger shutoff anyway. Centralizing the
> >>system would require fusing to protect the extra wiring, but would make
> >>it a lot easier to test bulbs and bypass everything for equalizing. How
> >>much trouble would a latching device be, to show which batteries are
> >>lighting up first? Thanks, Mark T.
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:40 PM
> >>Subject: Productizing the Hart Regulator
> >>
> >>
> >>.................
> >>
> >>
> >>>So tell me: is this a stupid idea? Why? Can it be improved into a
> >>>smart idea?
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Doug Weathers
> >>>Bend, OR, USA
> >>>http://learn-something.blogsite.org
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2004-03-27 at 11:08 -0800, Steven Lough wrote:
> A charter member of the Seattle EV Association, Byron Verbon, a retired
> Industrial Arts Teacher, is selling his Fiat 850 Spyder EV.
>
> Facts and figures ( Pictures ) can be seen at :
> http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/Fiat850ForSale.html
The pictures are not showing. The links are to his local drive.
Lonnie Borntreger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1) They should do the job. A diode rated for say 300V might make less
heat, but you may not find such a deal.
2) Is that 800 motor amps or 800 battery amps? And what controller?
*If* you can run a single 288V string, that might be less of a problem.
3) With careful attention to battery pack building and equalization,
people have run dual (or more) strings without diodes. With mixed
results. People have mixed results with battery packs anyways :)
Seth
On Mar 27, 2004, at 7:58 PM, Danny Ames wrote:
Hi,
Can anyone comment about what end one should place blocking diodes
positive or negative to prevent one string from discharging into the
other weaker string when running two parallel strings.
I think I will need two to accomplish this.
Planing on two 144 VDC AGM strings wired in parallel feeding into an
800
amp controller.
I hear that one needs to do this when running 2 packs in parallel.
I found for $60 bucks power diodes rated at 1000v, 800 amps so it
should
be able to handle this with out any problems.
Thanks in advance.
Danny Ames
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are heading to the track to test out the improved rear drive. The film
crew is back. We are leaving in about a half hour. F.T. and Madman worked
until after 10 P.M. last night on "Gone Postal" getting her ready. If we
pull the series Madman will definitely be a part of our regular team. He
adds a lot of spice and I know just how to push his buttons. We get in some
great arguments, uh, I mean intellectual discussions about who is full of
crap. Wish us luck today. We're still ten miles an hour from the triple
digits.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George,
I'm still catching up on my e-mails so this may have been posted but
could an EV-only pull put at least part of the pack in the sled?
JD
Subject:
Re: More Garden Tractor Stuff
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:
Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:16:07 EST
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lee,,yes I did, we do pulls at gas and steam shows, they are very
impressive,,however the gist of the message was relating to Garden Tractors and mini rods
although I think I recall someone actually built a cool lookin steam engine
powered garden tractor just for puttering around,,,in full size pulling things
get very wild where there's lots of V12-V16 piston engine fighter plane
engines, HUGE radial aircraft engines, tank engines, turbines , six supercharged
racing engines, etc., some fantastic setups if ya look around, just picture some
EV monster that can compete with the 10,000lb. Unlimited Modifieds, what a
show that would be,,,might not hear an engine but maybe you'd hear as well as
feel the earth shake,,,oooohhhh baby....they get pretty wild in Europe
too,,,you'll get "hooked" on this sport !!! It's a shame that there's no EV's when this
is the sport that it's ideal to use.... Geo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Brandt wrote:
> What is everybody doing for DC/DC's, anyhow?
I'm currently using a re-badged Iota DLS-55 AC-DC battery charger,
which runs just fine on DC input. Cost me $250 from Tessco, a radio
equipment supplier. These are sold as radio site standby battery
chargers but has been an excellent performer charging my EV's aux
battery for a couple years now. No modifications, just cut the AC
plug off and wire it into the pack. I don't think it will work with
less than a 144V pack. The big plus to this one over the Todd PC-30's
I used to use is they don't kick off under high load, they just go
into constant current mode.
http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls.htm
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No modifications, just cut the AC
plug off and wire it into the pack.
Oooh Nooo! Don't cut off the plug!
It is VERY useful to leave on the plug. If your accessory battery
goes flat, it is a handy way to charge it back up. Just unplug the DC-DC
converter from the pack and plug it into an extension cord. Many
installations have a 12 volt relay that energizes the DC-DC converter. With
a dead accessory battery, there is no way to start the car because there is
no 12 volts available. You can just plug in the DC-DC to get the car started.
The receptacle is also handy for plugging in a drop light,
electric drill, circular saw, vacuum cleaner, etc. Just be sure the device
can run on DC and don't attempt to turn it off with the regular switch.
Unplug it instead.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Overunity motor? We'll see!
> On 24 Mar 2004 at 22:47, Jude Anthony wrote:
>
> > As Minato notes: "How typical of Japan's small-minded
> > bureaucrats that they needed the leadership of the US to accept that my
> > invention was genuine."
>
> On 24 Mar 2004 at 22:14, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > Revealed here in it's entirety is a patent which, due to probable
> > suppression by political, military and/or economic interests, you've
never
> > heard about.
>
> When associated with any "invention," this kind of invective usually sets
> off my BS detector (with all the sirens blaring and strobes flashing ;-).
> Scientists just don't write this way, but paranoid loonies and con men do.
> Not that there aren't examples of corporations successfully suppressing
> technology - but this isn't technology.
>
> Patents don't mean much. From what I've read, the US patent office will
> pretty much patent anything; all you have to do is show that it doesn't
use
> prior art. There doesn't seem to be any requirement that you prove an
> invention actually WORKS.
>
> All that said, haven't we agreed on this list that perpetual motion and
> overunity machines are off-topic? Or am I misremembering?
> Hi Dave;
Ya got a good point! Waiting for one of the Listers to put all the
above in his car, and tell us all about it<g>!Then I'll believe.
Seeya
Bob
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Americans are satisfied with things because they are large; and
> if not large, they must have cost a great deal of money.
>
> -- Lepel Henry Griffin, ca. 1885
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: Tom Hanks = Big EV Fan
> At 10:29 AM 03/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> > Bettya THAT may be Phoenix Motorcars?? Hope so!
>
> He specifically said *Conversions* - Phoenix makes original vehicles from
> what I read.
>
> brad
>
> Great! That may mean that that are MORE players in the EV thing??
Bob
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please ignore.
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motor below is well suited for the job and
will run off of AC or DC voltage (Universal Motor).
Rod
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Assuming you are running a more or less ordinary
> pack voltage (100-144V)
> >this motor aught to do the trick:
>
>http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=18&category=174
> >
> >The one at the top labeled "Treadmill Motor", 1.5-2
> hp and $49.95
> >It's made by Pacific Scientific (which is a good
> company) and it's
> >perhaps a bit more powerful than you need (which
> means it's unlikely to
> >overheat).
> >
> >
>
> This is the motor I have and will be using for AC
> (will it be powerful
> enough for the PS too?). Since it runs about about
> 4800 rpm, I imagine
> you'd want to gear it down - to about 1500 rpm. I'm
> planning on a dash
> switch to turn it off on those 0-60 runs :)
>
> -Ryan
>
>
> --
> Check out the Zilla rebates!
> http://www.evsource.com
>
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Jarrett wrote:
> Many of you on the list remember some of the posts / trials /
> tribulations I have had getting my 59 Henney Kilowatt running.
> Well with spring now here (officially anyway) and the days warming
> up she's out on the road again and doing quite well.
>
> Then the bombshell dropped. Sometime in the next 2-3 months, I am
> going to have to move... The one 38 miles away is where I am moving
> to. I can't get charging at work, I have fought that fight and have,
> for now at least, lost.
>
> The Henney Just can't do it. Even with charging it would be at the
> edge of her 40-45 mile range.
Sorry to hear that you put so much work into the Henny, and now won't be
able to put it to good use. However, you can look at it as a great set
of 'training wheels'. Sell it to another person interested in EVs, and
'move up' to something better. You probably wouldn't want to make such a
long commute in this old a car anyway -- safety, parts, and reliability
issues.
A 38-mile commute isn't out of the question for an EV. Any of the auto
company EVs would have done it. Too bad most were crushed; it would be
like finding a needle in a haystack to find one now.
You could make something like Dick Finley's "Red Beastie" pickup, with
enough plain old lead-acid batteries to give it the range. Or, use a set
of expensive batteries in a more-or-less normal EV conversion and do the
same.
Or, get a 2004 Toyota Prius and install the 'secret' all-electric mode
button. It comes stock in Priuses sold in every country *except* the US,
but hackers have figured out where it attaches. Everything is already
there but the button itself! And, hackers have also figured out how to
add larger battery packs for greater pure-EV range, if you get
ambitious.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> I've been pondering the battery regulator Lee Hart has described
> here. I'm calling it the Hart Regulator. It consists of two zener
> diodes and a flashlight bulb. It lights the bulb at 13.6v, and at
> 15v it's dissipating about half an amp.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/message/31518
>
> I have come up with a possible way to turn it into a product. A few
> features could be added as well.
First, I think it can be a 'product' just as it is. My goal for this
regulator was to be as simple and cheap as possible. It is aimed at the
guy who can't (or won't) spend $20-40 per battery on regulators. My
regulator is only about $5 per battery if you build it yourself, and I'd
be happy to sell them pre-built for $10 each. Physically, it's a
foot-long piece of wire with a 5/16" ring terminal at each end and a
small light bulb in the center. The ring terminal and light are potted,
and so relatively acid-proof. Installation is simple; bolt the ring
terminals to your battery terminals.
> The idea is to make a circuit board that can be attached to the
> side posts on an Optima battery. It would be shaped like an upside-
> down U. The legs of the U are the connection points to the side
> posts. There are little cutouts on the top of the Optima above the
> side terminals, so you'd still be able to jam the Optimas together
> tightly.
Clever idea! But there are problems.
1. The Optima side posts are recessed deeper than the cutouts in
the top cover. It couldn't be rigid PC board material that went
in the slot to connect to the post; it would have to be flexible
sheet metal that could be bent to jog inward 3/16" to the side
post.
2. You couldn't add a spacer between the PC board and side terminal
because then the bolt head going into the side post would stick
out beyond the battery. It would prevent you from tight-packing
batteries; specifically, by hitting the next battery when you
tried to drop it in vertically.
> The circuit board would contain the zener diodes and a socket for the
> flashlight bulb.
3. My regulator has 5 watt zener diodes; these make a lot of heat.
Rather than use a physical heatsink, these zeners mount to the
large posts terminals, and use them as their heatsink. It would
be hard to get them to couple their heat to the side posts, and
airflow is very poor there. So, you'd need heatsinks for the
zeners.
4. I wouldn't socket the light bulb, as it is unlikely to burn out.
You'd have to apply 16v for days to reach the rated life of the
bulb. The battery would be more likely to die than the bulb.
Further, the socket in a battery box would be very difficult to
seal against water or battery acid. I'd be afraid it would be
a reliability headache.
I solder the wires directly to the bulb, put heat shrink tubing
over the connections, and pot it with glue. If the bulb does
fail, it isn't that terribly difficult to cut it out and solder
in a new one.
> Optionally it could also contain:
> - a bulb test circuit (a momentary contact switch and a resistor)
Could be. If this was an important function, I'd rather add an LED and
resistor in parallel with the bulb. As for a light socket, I think a
switch contact would a reliability headache.
> - a disconnect switch (for an equalizing charge, or just because)
This regulator is different than a Rudman-type regulator; it doesn't
have a precise threshold where it turns on, and above which it would
burn up. You can over-ride it by just applying any voltage you want for
any length of time. If you wanted to equalize the battery for (say) 2
hours at 15v, just apply 15v for 2 hours. The regulator lamp will be on,
and it will be bypassing its maximum of 0.5 amps, but it won't hurt it.
> - forward-based diodes with a negative temperature coefficient to
> compensate for the positive temperature coefficient of the zeners
> (as described by Lee Hart in a followup message)
I have since found that the 6.8v zeners actually have a slight positive
temperature coefficient at higher currents. I think this turns out to be
a better choice. If the ring terminals have poor heatsinking, the zener
gets hot, and its voltage increases. This automatically reduces their
current. For example, if I just lay the regulator on the bench and
connect it to a 15v supply with alligator clips, the initial current is
0.5 amps as you'd expect. But as the ring terminals (zeners) heat up,
the current will drop to 0.3 amps.
> - a photocell circuit to detect the light from the flashlight bulb
> (for turning the charger down or off)
This is probably a separate product. At 15v, a single flashlight bulb in
a closed battery box is pretty bright. A single photocell at the right
location can tell if any bulb anywhere in the pack is lit. So, I don't
think you need a photocell per regulator. Besides, having one photocell
for all batteries eliminates a big tangle of wires!
> - a redundant bulb for the paranoid
> - an option for using with 6v batteries
These are kind of related. 6v batteries have higher amphour capacities,
and so need more bypass current. The easiest way to get this is to use
two bulbs in parallel. There is no common low-voltage 1-amp lamp.
> - other mounting options for other batteries (foam tape, extra leads
> to reach the terminals)
Custom versions to suit various batteries are of course possible. The
drawback is that you wind up with a dozen versions and your market
shrinks to almost zero for each version.
> So tell me: is this a stupid idea? Why? Can it be improved into a
> smart idea?
No, it's a fine idea. I encourage anyone who wants to use my idea as the
jumping-off point for a more elaborate version to go right ahead. But if
you like it as-is, I'm also happy to supply them for $10 each, or you
are free to build your own.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> But the big question is when do you want the light to come on?
> The Hawker batteries want to be rocked to 15 volts per battery,
> then let the current come down to under .5 amps before you kick
> the controller into stage 3 (up to 15.6v for 20 minutes)...
> I can see regs being used to hold a voltage, but one would have
> to allow the reg to bypass 14-18 amps in my case.
This simple regulator is not intended as a wonderful do-it-all miracle
cure. It is just a quick-and-dirty system, intended as a cheap
alternative for those who would otherwise have *NO* regulators!
There is no adjustment or threshold voltage. They draw nothing below
13.5v, and so have no effect when not charging. As the voltage rises
above 13.6v, the current gradually rises to 0.5 amps at 15v, and doesn't
increase much as you go higher.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JD, I'm sorry, but could you please rephrase the question, I don't understand
what your asking..I'd like to try and help you..Geo
yes,,it's an effort keeping up with all of the emails,,burns up some time for
sure, I skip thru some of them, otherwise they pile up..lol
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the clip from the Letterman show where Tom Hanks talks about EV's
he is working on building. The important thing to note its the spontaneous
applause from the audience when he says "people should be able to select an
all electric car" - but that audience must be insane, because people don't
really want these cars, right?
http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/dave_tv/ls_dtv_big_show_highlights.shtml
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See story here (requires sign-in)-
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/28/automobiles/28AUTO.html
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
Updated!
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet
access.
https://broadband.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Surplus sales of Nebraska has them.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> Where are you planning on getting 800 amp diodes from? Also you'll
> loose up to 500 watts across those diodes, you'll need a decent heatsink
> to dissipate all that wasted power.
>
> On Sat, 2004-03-27 at 17:58, Danny Ames wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Can anyone comment about what end one should place blocking diodes
> > positive or negative to prevent one string from discharging into the
> > other weaker string when running two parallel strings.
> > I think I will need two to accomplish this.
> > Planing on two 144 VDC AGM strings wired in parallel feeding into an 800
> > amp controller.
> > I hear that one needs to do this when running 2 packs in parallel.
> > I found for $60 bucks power diodes rated at 1000v, 800 amps so it should
> > be able to handle this with out any problems.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Danny Ames
> --
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
