EV Digest 3450
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Solar powered car (long)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Henney Charger Died
by "" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Henney Charger Died
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cloud charger
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Solar powered car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) RE: Henney Charger Died
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Henney Charger Died
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Henney Charger Died
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Extension cord?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Controller isoaltion (Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Extension cord?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Three-wheel Clever Car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Cloud charger
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT: PR rant (Escape hybrid) and a little Prius experience
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: average DC from 220 after bridge?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Henney Charger Died
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Henney Charger Died
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Why Advanced DC Motors ?
by "Michael Jaross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Henney Charger Died
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Prius rental
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Windshield wiper arm repair for Think Neighbor.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Prius EV mode (was PR rant (Escape hybrid) and a little Prius experience)
by "Will Bain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> I certainly appreciate your effort to convince me of the viability of EVs
> here, but you are preaching to the converted :^D
But it's so much easier to preach to the converted. ;-) The second part of
my email was more a general rant, of course, than a reply to you personally.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James;
Check the fuses on the rear battery pack.
The charging circuit goes through all of the pack fuses and also a 20 amp fuse on the
charger itself. But since the rear pack all seem to be at a higher state of charge, I
suspect the one of the rear fuses is blown and thus you weren't using the rear batts.
You can drive with the batt fuses blown (but won't have full power) but you can't
charge at all. Unfortunately the current meter is not in the charging circuit, that
sux.
Also check all of the batter connections, these are put in series for charging, so if
one is bad then you won't be able to charge. But you can still drive, up to 36v, the
step to 72v will fail though.
In 36 volts mode the front and rear packs are arranged in series with themselves and
parallel with each other, but in 72 they are all in series, so no-go. I suspect your
wife was driving around on 36v, front pack only, and didn't realize it.
You probably now have two blown fuses. Trying to go up the hill with only the front
pack(mostly discharged) maybe blew a front pack fuse, but probably the front pack is
just too dead to go anymore.
Stay Charged! (really, I mean it)
Hump
Good luck.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James Jarrett
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:05 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Henney Charger Died
>
>
> Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney yesterday (for the
> third day in a row!) and the car died on her.
>
> She was climbing a hill to our house and she said the car just died. She
> managed to get over to the side of the road, and I went and towed her home.
>
> When I got the car home, I checked the batteries. I don't have the sheet
> where I wrote it down with me, but the batts are CRAZY out of balance.
>
> The front pack of six had voltages from about 6.2v (highest) to 5.9
> (lowest).
>
> The Rear pack bats were out of balance, but much closer together. But the
> weird thing is they were ALL over 7V. the highest being almost 7.5.
>
> WHAT THE HECK?
>
> So I put her on to charge, and went into the house. Came back out in about
> 3 hours and realized that there was NO amperage going into the pack.
>
> All I can figure is the charger failed a day or two ago, and the reason I
> didn't notice was:
>
> A) I was not driving it and
> B) The trips were all short.
>
> So my questions to the group
>
> 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse over until I can repair or
> replace the charger,
> 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPESIVE but quality charger for a 12 batt,
> 72v lead acid pack?
>
> If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than 72v as in the future I'd
> like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts) with a new controller.
> But a cheap 72v is more important than one that can do 72-144.
>
> I know everyone is going to say "Buy a PFC-20" and I want to. Realy I do,
> but my current (pun intended) finances don't allow it. Honestly I don't
> know if I can justify more than 4-500 on it right now.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
>
> A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool
> trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James and All,
--- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney
> yesterday (for the
> third day in a row!) and the car died on her.
>
> She was climbing a hill to our house and she said
> the car just died. She
> managed to get over to the side of the road, and I
> went and towed her home.
>
> When I got the car home, I checked the batteries. I
> don't have the sheet
> where I wrote it down with me, but the batts are
> CRAZY out of balance.
>
> The front pack of six had voltages from about 6.2v
> (highest) to 5.9
> (lowest).
This isn't unusual in a dead pack as a little
difference in batts shows up larger when close to
completely discharged.
>
> The Rear pack bats were out of balance, but much
> closer together. But the
> weird thing is they were ALL over 7V. the highest
> being almost 7.5.
Maybe one of you contactor contacts are burnt,
open in the 36 vdc setting, discharging one pack but
not the other. This may stop your charger from
charging on 72vdc also if the contact is in that
circuit too.
>
> WHAT THE HECK?
>
> So I put her on to charge, and went into the house.
> Came back out in about
> 3 hours and realized that there was NO amperage
> going into the pack.
>
> All I can figure is the charger failed a day or two
> ago, and the reason I
> didn't notice was:
>
> A) I was not driving it and
> B) The trips were all short.
>
> So my questions to the group
>
> 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse
> over until I can repair or
> replace the charger,
Charge and equalize it with another charger like a
12vdc one. Or rig a bad boy with a light bulb in
series.
> 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPESIVE but quality
> charger for a 12 batt,
> 72v lead acid pack?
Repair your old one. Most of these chargers are
quite simple.
Any Lester 36vdc nom Ferro Golf Cart charger, as
other brands can by just switching the diodes from
full wave to a bridge rect diode array will give you a
good regulated 72vdc nom at a low cost. These can be
recconnized by only having a trans, big cap, diodes
and switching inside.
Most GC repair shops have piles of these dead with
minor problems you can get for $10-25 or even free.
Usually the problem is diodes or switches. The trans
is rarely bad. I never pay more than $5 for mine.
>
> If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than
> 72v as in the future I'd
> like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts)
> with a new controller.
> But a cheap 72v is more important than one that can
> do 72-144.
Just put 2 identical of these in series for 144.
Or 4 in series, parallel. Can charge from 120 or 240
also with pigtails with these.
Though 144 vdc is the best voltage for a bad boy.
>
> I know everyone is going to say "Buy a PFC-20" and I
> want to. Realy I do,
> but my current (pun intended) finances don't allow
> it. Honestly I don't
> know if I can justify more than 4-500 on it right
> now.
There is no need to spend anywhere near that. You
should be able to do it for under $100. KIS!!!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
>
> A little government and a little luck are necessary
> in life, but only a fool
> trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:55 AM 4/8/2004, you wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone has ventured to try the Cloud Electric Charger
http://www.cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=1233448
Certainly no PFC-20, but not $1500 either. I'd be interested in an honest
comparision.
Hmm, I like the "boast" mode it has. I wonder what it boasts about?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Chapman wrote:
> Richard, are you using trackers on your PV panels? I was looking at a site
> that showed that tracking can be of great benefit and it can be implimented
> pretty cheap. Rick and I here in Phx were thinking of using a screw drive
> garage door opener to control banks of panels on shop built "Traxles". And
> if I could just remember the guys name, a while back I ran across a fellow
> that is building solar tracker controls using LEDs, the whole deal is dirt
> cheap. Doh, its the guy building the distributed controller for EVs. .....
> Oh well, if I remember it I will post. David Chapman.
Our panels are mounted on unistrut, as low to the roof as possible. This
was done in order to keep them from being visible from the street.
I have a pamphlet here from the Lyle Center for Regenerative Studies, in
Pomona, that states that tracking the sun can increase an array's output by
three times.
Considering the cost of these panels, it sure sounds smarter to spend a
little on tracking, rather than buy a bigger array. If you find a URL for
these projects, please post them or email me.
Thanks,
Richard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, I know the fuses are good. The car's "Resting" voltage meter shows
~72v. If ANY fuse was blown I'd see EITHER 36v or nothing.
That, and I checked those first thing.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool
trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:25 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Henney Charger Died
>
>
> James;
>
> Check the fuses on the rear battery pack.
>
> The charging circuit goes through all of the pack fuses and
> also a 20 amp fuse on the charger itself. But since the rear
> pack all seem to be at a higher state of charge, I suspect
> the one of the rear fuses is blown and thus you weren't using
> the rear batts. You can drive with the batt fuses blown (but
> won't have full power) but you can't charge at all.
> Unfortunately the current meter is not in the charging
> circuit, that sux.
>
> Also check all of the batter connections, these are put in
> series for charging, so if one is bad then you won't be able
> to charge. But you can still drive, up to 36v, the step to
> 72v will fail though.
>
> In 36 volts mode the front and rear packs are arranged in
> series with themselves and parallel with each other, but in
> 72 they are all in series, so no-go. I suspect your wife was
> driving around on 36v, front pack only, and didn't realize it.
>
> You probably now have two blown fuses. Trying to go up the
> hill with only the front pack(mostly discharged) maybe blew a
> front pack fuse, but probably the front pack is just too dead
> to go anymore.
>
>
> Stay Charged! (really, I mean it)
> Hump
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of James Jarrett
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:05 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Henney Charger Died
> >
> >
> > Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney
> yesterday (for the
> > third day in a row!) and the car died on her.
> >
> > She was climbing a hill to our house and she said the car
> just died. She
> > managed to get over to the side of the road, and I went and
> towed her home.
> >
> > When I got the car home, I checked the batteries. I don't
> have the sheet
> > where I wrote it down with me, but the batts are CRAZY out
> of balance.
> >
> > The front pack of six had voltages from about 6.2v (highest) to 5.9
> > (lowest).
> >
> > The Rear pack bats were out of balance, but much closer
> together. But the
> > weird thing is they were ALL over 7V. the highest being almost 7.5.
> >
> > WHAT THE HECK?
> >
> > So I put her on to charge, and went into the house. Came
> back out in about
> > 3 hours and realized that there was NO amperage going into the pack.
> >
> > All I can figure is the charger failed a day or two ago,
> and the reason I
> > didn't notice was:
> >
> > A) I was not driving it and
> > B) The trips were all short.
> >
> > So my questions to the group
> >
> > 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse over
> until I can repair or
> > replace the charger,
> > 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPESIVE but quality charger
> for a 12 batt,
> > 72v lead acid pack?
> >
> > If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than 72v as in
> the future I'd
> > like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts) with a
> new controller.
> > But a cheap 72v is more important than one that can do 72-144.
> >
> > I know everyone is going to say "Buy a PFC-20" and I want
> to. Realy I do,
> > but my current (pun intended) finances don't allow it.
> Honestly I don't
> > know if I can justify more than 4-500 on it right now.
> >
> > James
> >
> > James F. Jarrett
> > Information Systems Associate
> > Charlotte Country Day School
> > (704)943-4562
> > http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> > http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
> >
> > A little government and a little luck are necessary in
> life, but only a fool
> > trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't *THINK* so. I'll take the controller apart tomorrow and check, but
one neat thing about the Henney is she has a "nutral" mode. I put her in
nutral and I can then press the gas pedal down and watch the volt meter and
listen to the relays. The meter went from ~18, to ~36 to ~72 as it should,
and I heard all the contactors switch as per normal. One COULD be toast,
but I doubt it.
As to her driving in 36v and not knowing it, no way. This car is direct
drive, no gears, and she has driven it before, so she would INSTANTLY know
if 1/2 of her power was gone.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool
trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of jerry dycus
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:31 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Henney Charger Died
>
>
> Hi James and All,
> --- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney
> > yesterday (for the
> > third day in a row!) and the car died on her.
> >
> > She was climbing a hill to our house and she said
> > the car just died. She
> > managed to get over to the side of the road, and I
> > went and towed her home.
> >
> > When I got the car home, I checked the batteries. I
> > don't have the sheet
> > where I wrote it down with me, but the batts are
> > CRAZY out of balance.
> >
> > The front pack of six had voltages from about 6.2v
> > (highest) to 5.9
> > (lowest).
> This isn't unusual in a dead pack as a little
> difference in batts shows up larger when close to
> completely discharged.
>
> >
> > The Rear pack bats were out of balance, but much
> > closer together. But the
> > weird thing is they were ALL over 7V. the highest
> > being almost 7.5.
>
> Maybe one of you contactor contacts are burnt,
> open in the 36 vdc setting, discharging one pack but
> not the other. This may stop your charger from
> charging on 72vdc also if the contact is in that
> circuit too.
>
> >
> > WHAT THE HECK?
> >
> > So I put her on to charge, and went into the house.
> > Came back out in about
> > 3 hours and realized that there was NO amperage
> > going into the pack.
> >
> > All I can figure is the charger failed a day or two
> > ago, and the reason I
> > didn't notice was:
> >
> > A) I was not driving it and
> > B) The trips were all short.
> >
> > So my questions to the group
> >
> > 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse
> > over until I can repair or
> > replace the charger,
>
> Charge and equalize it with another charger like a
> 12vdc one. Or rig a bad boy with a light bulb in
> series.
>
> > 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPESIVE but quality
> > charger for a 12 batt,
> > 72v lead acid pack?
> Repair your old one. Most of these chargers are
> quite simple.
> Any Lester 36vdc nom Ferro Golf Cart charger, as
> other brands can by just switching the diodes from
> full wave to a bridge rect diode array will give you a
> good regulated 72vdc nom at a low cost. These can be
> recconnized by only having a trans, big cap, diodes
> and switching inside.
> Most GC repair shops have piles of these dead with
> minor problems you can get for $10-25 or even free.
> Usually the problem is diodes or switches. The trans
> is rarely bad. I never pay more than $5 for mine.
>
> >
> > If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than
> > 72v as in the future I'd
> > like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts)
> > with a new controller.
> > But a cheap 72v is more important than one that can
> > do 72-144.
> Just put 2 identical of these in series for 144.
> Or 4 in series, parallel. Can charge from 120 or 240
> also with pigtails with these.
> Though 144 vdc is the best voltage for a bad boy.
>
> >
> > I know everyone is going to say "Buy a PFC-20" and I
> > want to. Realy I do,
> > but my current (pun intended) finances don't allow
> > it. Honestly I don't
> > know if I can justify more than 4-500 on it right
> > now.
> There is no need to spend anywhere near that. You
> should be able to do it for under $100. KIS!!!
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
> >
> > James
> >
> > James F. Jarrett
> > Information Systems Associate
> > Charlotte Country Day School
> > (704)943-4562
> > http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> > http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
> >
> > A little government and a little luck are necessary
> > in life, but only a fool
> > trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It really DOES figure, too. The only time my escort had to be towed, my
wife was driving it. Turns out the circuit breaker got tripped
(mechanically) while going over a bump, but still...
James, did you check the contactors? It seems, like Hump said, that only
the front pack was discharged. Could be they aren't putting the batteries
into the right arrangement.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Jarrett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:24 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Henney Charger Died
>
> No, I know the fuses are good. The car's "Resting" voltage meter shows
> ~72v. If ANY fuse was blown I'd see EITHER 36v or nothing.
>
> That, and I checked those first thing.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
>
> A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a
> fool
> trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:25 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Henney Charger Died
> >
> >
> > James;
> >
> > Check the fuses on the rear battery pack.
> >
> > The charging circuit goes through all of the pack fuses and
> > also a 20 amp fuse on the charger itself. But since the rear
> > pack all seem to be at a higher state of charge, I suspect
> > the one of the rear fuses is blown and thus you weren't using
> > the rear batts. You can drive with the batt fuses blown (but
> > won't have full power) but you can't charge at all.
> > Unfortunately the current meter is not in the charging
> > circuit, that sux.
> >
> > Also check all of the batter connections, these are put in
> > series for charging, so if one is bad then you won't be able
> > to charge. But you can still drive, up to 36v, the step to
> > 72v will fail though.
> >
> > In 36 volts mode the front and rear packs are arranged in
> > series with themselves and parallel with each other, but in
> > 72 they are all in series, so no-go. I suspect your wife was
> > driving around on 36v, front pack only, and didn't realize it.
> >
> > You probably now have two blown fuses. Trying to go up the
> > hill with only the front pack(mostly discharged) maybe blew a
> > front pack fuse, but probably the front pack is just too dead
> > to go anymore.
> >
> >
> > Stay Charged! (really, I mean it)
> > Hump
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of James Jarrett
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:05 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Henney Charger Died
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney
> > yesterday (for the
> > > third day in a row!) and the car died on her.
> > >
> > > She was climbing a hill to our house and she said the car
> > just died. She
> > > managed to get over to the side of the road, and I went and
> > towed her home.
> > >
> > > When I got the car home, I checked the batteries. I don't
> > have the sheet
> > > where I wrote it down with me, but the batts are CRAZY out
> > of balance.
> > >
> > > The front pack of six had voltages from about 6.2v (highest) to 5.9
> > > (lowest).
> > >
> > > The Rear pack bats were out of balance, but much closer
> > together. But the
> > > weird thing is they were ALL over 7V. the highest being almost 7.5.
> > >
> > > WHAT THE HECK?
> > >
> > > So I put her on to charge, and went into the house. Came
> > back out in about
> > > 3 hours and realized that there was NO amperage going into the pack.
> > >
> > > All I can figure is the charger failed a day or two ago,
> > and the reason I
> > > didn't notice was:
> > >
> > > A) I was not driving it and
> > > B) The trips were all short.
> > >
> > > So my questions to the group
> > >
> > > 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse over
> > until I can repair or
> > > replace the charger,
> > > 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPESIVE but quality charger
> > for a 12 batt,
> > > 72v lead acid pack?
> > >
> > > If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than 72v as in
> > the future I'd
> > > like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts) with a
> > new controller.
> > > But a cheap 72v is more important than one that can do 72-144.
> > >
> > > I know everyone is going to say "Buy a PFC-20" and I want
> > to. Realy I do,
> > > but my current (pun intended) finances don't allow it.
> > Honestly I don't
> > > know if I can justify more than 4-500 on it right now.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > James F. Jarrett
> > > Information Systems Associate
> > > Charlotte Country Day School
> > > (704)943-4562
> > > http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> > > http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
> > >
> > > A little government and a little luck are necessary in
> > life, but only a fool
> > > trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
> > >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or larger...and have really high quality ends.
Joe Smalley wrote:
> The PFC chargers operating on 120 VAC make current proportional to the line
> voltage.
>
> If you are using a 50 foot #10 extension cord, the losses in the cord are
> 1.5 volts at 15 amps. The voltage will sag 1.5 volts out of 120 VAC causing
> the line voltage to be 98% of normal. Current will be 98% of normal and the
> power will be 97.5% of normal.
>
> If you are using a 50 foot #14 extension cord, the losses in the cord are
> 3.77 volts at 15 amps.The voltage will sag 3.77 volts out of 120 VAC causing
> the line voltage to be 96.8% of normal. Current will be 96.8% of normal and
> the power will be 93.8% of normal.
>
> If you use a 100 foot cord, the power at the battery pack will square.
> -100 feet of #10 will produce 95% of normal power.
> -100 feet of #14 will produce 88% of normal power.
>
> Although a 50 foot #14 cord will carry 15 amps, it will make ~5% less power
> into the battery pack than a #10 cord.
>
> If you plan to use the full 20 amp capability of the charger, you should use
> a #12 cord or larger.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:48 PM
> Subject: Extension cord?
>
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Since the landlord removed the outside electrical plug when he remodeled
> > our apartment complex a couple summers ago, I'm in search of an
> > alternative way to charge (without putting an extension cord out and
> > under the front door). I've found a route for an extension cord
> > (through the dryer exhaust hole) that will run along the side of the
> > building and right to where I park. I'll be using a PFC-20, and I'm a
> > little worried that it will draw more current than the extension cord is
> > rated for. The cable is UL listed, 14/3 is written on the cord. Most
> > extension cords this size are rated at 15 amps. Do I need to be worried?
> >
> > I imagine others have had to deal with this same problem. I'd be
> > interested to hear the solutions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --
> > Visit http://www.evsource.com for rebates on Zillas during the month of
> > April!
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Apr 2004 at 14:52, Rich Rudman wrote:
> Ah to
> have the time and money to compete with a Billion Dollar company....
I'd be very surprised if Brusa were a billion dollar operation. I believe
they have between 30 and 40 employees.
But they definitely pride themselves on doing sophisticated (and complex)
designs. Someone once said the inside of their chargers looked like it was
designed by the Borg.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Apr 2004 at 21:48, Ryan Bohm wrote:
> Since the landlord removed the outside electrical plug when he remodeled our
> apartment complex a couple summers ago
Doesn't the NEC (national electrical code) require exterior power
receptacles on all residential structures?
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
War is peace
Ignorance is strength
Freedom is slavery
-- George Orwell, "1984"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Today's BBC News web site has an article on the Clever (Compact Low
Emission Vehicle for Urban Transport) car, a 50 mph three-wheeler
that carries two people in tandem. The tilting vehicle has been
developed by nine European countries and is funded by the EU.
The vehicle looks a bit like the Swiss SAM but has one wheel in front
and two rear. The body and front wheel tilt in unison while the rear
wheels remain level. According to BBC News, the car could sell for
6,500 pounds (about $12,000) after December 2005.
See the following web sites:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3610083.stm
www.bath.ac.uk/pr/releases/vehicle
www.carver.nl/home.html
Don McGrath
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:55, Ryan Bohm wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has ventured to try the Cloud Electric Charger
>
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=1233448
>
Don't know anything about it. I do wonder what "boast mode" is though.
Maybe something you use a lot at the race track? <grin>
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion
Est. 2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Apr 2004 at 21:31, Alan Batie wrote:
> I'm really hoping that one of
> the Prius hackers figures out getting the EV mode button wired in...
It's been done, and reported here. Check the archives.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
-- William G. McAdoo
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I forgot the rule, is it about 2/3rd's or 145 VDC after I send
>> 220 VAC through a rectifier bridge?
Rhett T. George wrote:
> To finish answering the question, the average value of full-wave
> rectified 220 VAC is to multiply the voltage (less two diode drops)
> by 2/pi or 0.6366. Yes 2/3rd's is close enough. An inductor with
> a lot of inductance on the DC side of the rectifier will present
> the average value of voltage to a load.
Not quite right. 2/3rds is close to the relationship between the *peak"
AC voltage and the average. The relationships between peak, average, and
RMS values for a rectified sinewave are:
Given Value to get Peak to get RMS to get Average
----------- ----------- ------------ --------------
Peak 0.707 x Peak 0.637 x Peak
RMS 1.414 x RMS 0.9 x RMS
Average 1.57 x Average 1.11 x Average
If you put a voltmeter on the full-wave rectifier output *without* a
battery or filter capacitor connected, it reads the Average voltage. Add
a filter capacitor or battery, and you get the Peak voltage.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Jarrett wrote:
> Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney yesterday
> (for the third day in a row!) and the car died on her... the
> charger failed a day or two ago...
> 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse over until
> I can repair or replace the charger.
You have 6v flooded golf cart batteries, right?
If you have a regular 12v battery charger, just put that on 12v pairs
and charge them individually. If it has a 6v setting, you can use that.
> 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPENSIVE but quality charger for
> a 12 batt, 72v lead acid pack?
The cheapest route is probably to fix the existing charger. If there was
no obvious smoke and fire show, then it is probably something simple; a
blown fuse, loose wire, bad rectifier, etc.
Failing that, get a pair of 36v golf cart chargers. These are cheap and
easy to find new or used. Or, since your car already has a
series/parallel contactor, you could wire it to switch the contactor to
the 36v position and use a single 36v charger (slower, but it would
still work).
> If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than 72v as in the
> future I'd like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts)
> with a new controller.
As for the 36/72v case, you can use series/parallel switching to use a
72v charger for a 144v pack. Also, most simple transformer-rectifier
chargers use a center-tapped transformer and two diodes. You can rewire
them with a four-diode full bridge to double the voltage (and halve the
current).
PS: Did you decide to keep the Henney? Last I heard I thought you were
moving and it couldn't do your new daily commute?
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could try a 1500W microwave oven transformer with a 25uf cap across the
primary for PFC. I did this, knocked out the magnetic shunt and cutt off the
HV secondary and wound my own with #14 magnet wire for a split secondary,
60V out for 120Vdc battery for example. test the final turns at 2.58V per
cell for a C/40 - C50 current rate, or 5.5A - 4.4A final for 6V 220ah.
Meanwhile you could parallel series all the batteries for 12V and slap an
auto charger on it while your making another charger since it's not a good
idea to leave them discharged for very long. If the pack's isolated a
bad-boy bridge and long extension cord could work if the voltage is close or
borrow a variac.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:05 AM
Subject: Henney Charger Died
> Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney yesterday (for the
> third day in a row!) and the car died on her.
>
> She was climbing a hill to our house and she said the car just died. She
> managed to get over to the side of the road, and I went and towed her
home.
>
> When I got the car home, I checked the batteries. I don't have the sheet
> where I wrote it down with me, but the batts are CRAZY out of balance.
>
> The front pack of six had voltages from about 6.2v (highest) to 5.9
> (lowest).
>
> The Rear pack bats were out of balance, but much closer together. But the
> weird thing is they were ALL over 7V. the highest being almost 7.5.
>
> WHAT THE HECK?
>
> So I put her on to charge, and went into the house. Came back out in
about
> 3 hours and realized that there was NO amperage going into the pack.
>
> All I can figure is the charger failed a day or two ago, and the reason I
> didn't notice was:
>
> A) I was not driving it and
> B) The trips were all short.
>
> So my questions to the group
>
> 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse over until I can repair
or
> replace the charger,
> 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPESIVE but quality charger for a 12 batt,
> 72v lead acid pack?
>
> If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than 72v as in the future I'd
> like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts) with a new controller.
> But a cheap 72v is more important than one that can do 72-144.
>
> I know everyone is going to say "Buy a PFC-20" and I want to. Realy I do,
> but my current (pun intended) finances don't allow it. Honestly I don't
> know if I can justify more than 4-500 on it right now.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
>
> A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a
fool
> trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, I still probably need to sell the Henney, but I doubt I'd get much of
anything for her if she doesn't run.
I'd get still less if the batteries are framitzed.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool
trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 3:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Henney Charger Died
>
>
> James Jarrett wrote:
> > Well, my wife (figures right) was driving the Henney yesterday
> > (for the third day in a row!) and the car died on her... the
> > charger failed a day or two ago...
> > 1) How do I keep the pack from getting any worse over until
> > I can repair or replace the charger.
>
> You have 6v flooded golf cart batteries, right?
>
> If you have a regular 12v battery charger, just put that on 12v pairs
> and charge them individually. If it has a 6v setting, you can
> use that.
>
> > 2) Can anyone reccommend an INEXPENSIVE but quality charger for
> > a 12 batt, 72v lead acid pack?
>
> The cheapest route is probably to fix the existing charger.
> If there was
> no obvious smoke and fire show, then it is probably something
> simple; a
> blown fuse, loose wire, bad rectifier, etc.
>
> Failing that, get a pair of 36v golf cart chargers. These are
> cheap and
> easy to find new or used. Or, since your car already has a
> series/parallel contactor, you could wire it to switch the
> contactor to
> the 36v position and use a single 36v charger (slower, but it would
> still work).
>
> > If possible, I'd like one that can go higher than 72v as in the
> > future I'd like to re-do her as a 144v system (still 12 batts)
> > with a new controller.
>
> As for the 36/72v case, you can use series/parallel switching to use a
> 72v charger for a 144v pack. Also, most simple transformer-rectifier
> chargers use a center-tapped transformer and two diodes. You
> can rewire
> them with a four-diode full bridge to double the voltage (and
> halve the
> current).
>
> PS: Did you decide to keep the Henney? Last I heard I thought you were
> moving and it couldn't do your new daily commute?
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Alan - May I ask where you rented the Prius from? Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My new Think Neighbor came with a busted wiper arm. What broke was the
plastic part holding on the nipple that goes in the blade to the wiper arm.
I broke off all leftover plastic on the nipple and the arm and welded it
together. Works perfect and I avoided the 75 dollar cost of a new arm which
is the only other way to repair the arm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alan --
I agree that the PR = BS. And I do agree that the '04 Prius is an example
of excellent automotive engineering.
But hey, the fellow techno geeks on the Prius_Technical_Stuff list have
already figured out how to wire up the electric vehicle mode button, which
was standard equipment in Japan & Europe, but denied to Americans. Very
detailed instructions and drawings can be found at:
http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf
The thing the techno geeks are still working on is a reliable way to add
*extra battery capacity* and *plug-in charging from the grid* without
confusing the state-of-charge algorithm in the car's computer. They've made
great progress, though, and soon will publish detailed instructions on how
to convert the Prius into a *true* hybrid (i.e., dual fuel) vehicle!
When they get it figured out, I'll be one of the early adopters, mainly
because it seems like the best local vs. distance in one package option --
easier than trying to build a pusher trailer or some such contraption for my
soon-to-be-electric Porsche 914.
-- Will Bain
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Batie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: OT: PR rant (Escape hybrid) and a little Prius experience
On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 04:48:48PM -0700, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> Starting in midtown Manhattan during the morning rush-hour, the
> Escape Hybrid will be driven up, down and across the island over
> some of America's most congested streets and avenues.
It maybe a commuter nightmare and worst case for a normal ICE, but it's
probably close to best case for a hybrid: low speed, stop and go. If
they do it right, probably 80%, maybe 90%, electric.
> Escape Hybrid is the first
> hybrid electric vehicle that can comfortably accommodate five adults
> and their gear.
If it can, it's bigger than the non-hybrid Escape. You may be able to
squeeze three adults in the back seat, but it certainly won't be
comfortable.
> Indeed, the Ford Escape Hybrid is as environmentally friendly as a
> vehicle that runs solely on electric power. That's because a
> battery-electric vehicle needs to be plugged in to be recharged, and
> that electricity must be generated by a power plant, creating some
> smog-forming emissions.
Preaching to the choir here, this is just such total BS. Sigh.
I've just finished a week of driving a rented 2004 Prius. I do love the
car --- drove it down to SF and back over the weekend, and down to
Corvallis and back today and yesterday. I'm surprised at how much I can
run it on electric --- for a little while. It *really* wants to keep the
batteries at about 80%. I did manage to use regen to get it completely
charged a few times though. It's *so* close! I'm really hoping that
one of the Prius hackers figures out getting the EV mode button wired in...
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
--- End Message ---
