EV Digest 3464
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: electrical noise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: BatPack parts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: desulfator circuits?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Th!nk City
by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: BatPack parts
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(ZAP crack LONG)More Stuff
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) LM3916
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Clutch plumbing...
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Th!nk City
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: LM3916
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: desulfator circuits?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Th!nk City
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Clutch plumbing...
by Kevin Coughlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: LM3916
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Clutch plumbing...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Clutch plumbing...
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: desulfator circuits?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Clutch plumbing...
by Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: E-Woody Pics - update
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: desulfator circuits?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: LM3916
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Any Thoughts on ELECTROGEL???
by "Dave Ganapoler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: stephen somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:52 AM
Subject: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
> just got my hands on a chopped lowered lavender to hot pink flame painted
metro.(MACHO). need some advice on a relatvely hot ev conversion.
> spsomerville no wax(sinecere)
>
> Hi Steve!
Glad to see that ya came on the List! Welcome aboard as per our phone
conversation, yesterday. Guyz! After Steve told me about this Metro, Nash,
Rambler, not GM he HAD to run it by the garus on the List. I'd say start
with a 8 or 9" motor, through the clutch and tranny, Orbitals and a Zilla,
fed from one of the Rich, at Manzanita Micro's offerings to get him started
right. This could be a fun, different sort of EV!
Seeya
Bob
> signature SP SOMERVILLE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed! If/when Sucking Amps gets picked up, they're going to need
projects. I nice light drag car would make a perfect counterpoint
to GP, and you might even get some freebie parts.
Tim
--------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:08:19 -0400
From: "" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DUDE! ;-)
Ref. your last paragraph;
You need to get your hands on a Discovery Channel Film crew.
Stay Charged!
Hump
_________________________________________________________________
Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and
more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> there's somebody there with a old Lester... it Hums and Buzzes so
> load that you can't talk over it. It's a God awful racket...
A good conventional transformer is nearly silent; just a 60 Hz
sinusoidal hum which is nearly inaudible. A constant voltage
transformer's core saturates, so its hum is a square wave (more like a
buzz) which sounds louder because it has harmonics that extend up into
the range of our hearing.
A cheap, bad, or damaged transformer can be much louder. Sometimes there
are loose laminations, or loose mounting screws, or the windings are
loose on the core, or the case is so flimsy that it vibrates and
rattles.
With my big 6.6kw Lester, the buzz was so loud that it got annoying. I
took it apart, and found *several* of the above problems. The
transformer had been replaced at some point, and its mounting screws
weren't tight. The windings were loose on the core. And the aluminum
case wasn't stiff enough, and just acted like a sounding board.
I tightened the mounting screws. I drove wooden wedges between the core
and windings to keep them from rattling, and dumped varnish on to glue
them in place. I put rubber strips between the cover and bottom of the
case so they didn't rattle against each other. It was easily 10:1
quieter.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Brandt wrote:
> Would it be better to use FETS or igbt's instead of diodes?
A normal diode has about a 1 volt drop at rated current.
A Schottky diode has about a 0.5v drop at rated current. Half the power,
half the heat, but they cost more.
A germanium diode has about 0.25v drop at rated current. But they are
very hard to find (expensive due to scarcity).
A MOSFET has a resistive voltage drop, i.e. you look at its "on"
resistance and calculate the voltage drop with Ohms law (Voltage drop =
Current times Resistance). For a given voltage drop, a MOSFET is more
expensive than a Schottky diode. But if cost is no object, you can use
giant MOSFETs and get the voltage drop as low as you like.
IGBTs have a 2-3 volt drop, and so aren't even in the running.
>> all the small packs that switched in the circuit are carrying the
>> full motor current. Batteries are less efficient at high currents,
>> you can get more energy and therefore range out of a battery at
> > lower current then you can at high currents.
> They are also switched in and out of the circuit several times a
> second, so it "should" average out.
No; the "average" is the wrong way to measure it. You need to use the
RMS current to estimate the effect on the battery.
> Another random thought: what about adding small PWM circuits for
> each low voltage subpack to provide a "soft start" capacity?
You could do this, too.
Schemes like this are special-case solutions. They certainly work, but
not as well as conventional solutions. But, they may be desirable in
certain special cases. For example, if you already have a lot of low
voltage diodes and contactors that you can use for "free".
But I think you will find that a conventional series/parallel switching
setup will use less parts and work better. Take the simple case of 4
batteries: The BatPack approach requires 4 switches and 4 diodes. The
Rectactor approach uses 3 switches and 6 diodes, but always spreads the
load among all the batteries.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
elaine chiu wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if desulfator circuits really work (or if you've
> covered this refer me to the proper EV archives)?
>
> I've been searching the web and they are either miracles or modern-day
> snake oil.
They are 99% Snake Oil, with just the tiniest bit of hard science thrown
in (to keep them out of jail). There seem to be two kinds:
1. Those produced by naive backyard tinkerers that don't really know
anything about batteries, and have deluded themselves with bad
testing into thinking that it works.
2. Con artists who know full well that it is junk science, and are
just out to cheat people out of their money.
Both groups depend on starting with bad or abused batteries (for which
*any* kind of proper care will produce an improvement), and making
faulty inaccurate tests (they either don't know how to test a battery,
or deliberately don't do it), and rely heavily on hearsay and
testimonials.
My opinion is that if you use a battery right, you will never need any
of these "miracle" devices. If you do have a battery that has been
abused, then it will recover remarkably well just by analyzing what was
done to it, correcting the problem, and then cycling it normally.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> As I recall, Ford got tired of complaints from customers. The
> dealership/s may have tried to fix problems, but, having a car
> that was easy, but not lucrative, to maintain spelled doom from
> the start. If not for the fear of
I spoke with the tech who does the maintenance on
Th!nk City EVs at S&C San Francisco yesterday.
I'd taken our car there for its "maintenance",
i.e. an excuse for F&^d to charge me ~$100 for
plugging in the diagnostic tool, doing a charge/discharge
cycle and watering the batteries... >80
Anyway, he freely admitted that they hadn't
had a single battery failure, that the cars
had been very reliable and a colleague of his
added that all the drivers loved their City cars
but that the *Neighbor* NEV was a pile of &^%$.
There's a big difference between the two.
For starters, I couldn't have driven the latter the
~65 miles, half on the freeway, that I drove the City
to get it in for service.
Also had the joy of seeing Lawrence Rhodes sweep by
on his electric motorcycle, while we were stopped
at a light in San Francisco!
Way to go Lawrence :)
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD **
** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock **
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Wrote:
> > Another random thought: what about adding small PWM circuits for
> > each low voltage subpack to provide a "soft start" capacity?
>
> You could do this, too.
>
> Schemes like this are special-case solutions. They certainly work, but
> not as well as conventional solutions. But, they may be desirable in
> certain special cases. For example, if you already have a lot of low
> voltage diodes and contactors that you can use for "free".
>
> But I think you will find that a conventional series/parallel switching
> setup will use less parts and work better. Take the simple case of 4
> batteries: The BatPack approach requires 4 switches and 4 diodes. The
> Rectactor approach uses 3 switches and 6 diodes, but always spreads the
> load among all the batteries.
Yes, I found the different approach to be a refreshing thought exercise, but
always thought that it was too complex in what its fully developed state
would probably wind up being. Efficiency and performance both seem to come
along with simplicity. Think, among other things, about all the wiring and
fusing you would have to do with a useful voltage battery pack if you wanted
to take this approach (www.http://www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/wires.jpg)!
And with every change we have discussed, the complexity and cost increases,
which is the opposite of the intent of the original concept.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
WOW
I sure would like to see a picture, I agree that a
standard zilla/Gone Postal type of conversion would be
the way to go. Not sure if the trannie and running
gear on the metro could handle the power. good luck
have fun
--- bobrice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stephen somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:52 AM
> Subject: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
>
>
> > just got my hands on a chopped lowered lavender to
> hot pink flame painted
> metro.(MACHO). need some advice on a relatvely hot
> ev conversion.
> > spsomerville no wax(sinecere)
> >
> > Hi Steve!
>
> Glad to see that ya came on the List! Welcome
> aboard as per our phone
> conversation, yesterday. Guyz! After Steve told me
> about this Metro, Nash,
> Rambler, not GM he HAD to run it by the garus on the
> List. I'd say start
> with a 8 or 9" motor, through the clutch and tranny,
> Orbitals and a Zilla,
> fed from one of the Rich, at Manzanita Micro's
> offerings to get him started
> right. This could be a fun, different sort of EV!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> > signature SP SOMERVILLE
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BOB - Was this a Freudian slip or a genius play on words? You're
equally capable of both which is why I love ya;
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
Didn't Ford spend big bux testing and cretifing Thinks for the US
Roads?
[snip]
> My two Mil worth
>
> Bob
cretifying - could be a word, tho if I were a real Cretin I might
think there must be a better way to say it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone ever used one of these? Can they handle isolation when reading
multiple batteries in series?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or why everything that seems simply isn't really.
The MR2 is sitting massively disassembled in my garage as I try to
figure out the last few things that are keeping it from being a "daily"
driver.
The original glider was equipped with Toyota's heavy 4 speed automatic.
Early in the project I went grave robbing and swiped the even heavier
(and much coveted) 5 speed manual from a junkyard '88 supercharged as
well as most of the parts required to convert the car (ie clutch pedal
and master cylinder, smaller brake pedal and shift arm and cables)
Fearing snakes, fire ants and falling cars I did not crawl under the car
and remove the 10' long steel clutch piping. (it wasn't likely to
survive the trip home without kinking anyway.
So... now I have a clutch pedal, and slave cylinder, and zero way of
connecting them. The MR2 drives like an average car in third gear and
shifts acceptably without the clutch into 4th. Sadly second gear, and
the truly entertaining launches it holds are out of reach...
A trip to the local auto parts stores, and even a clutch and brake
specialty house proved that brake and clutch lines are only stocked
around a few standard customary sizes. The fittings on the master and
slave cylinders are an oddball metric pipe thread as far as anyone can
tell. The master originally had a hollow bolt and banjo assembly, which
toyota parts no longer supplies. I've heard people online cursing these
fitting on other toyota products, but in most cases they found a banjo
fitting that adapters to a more standard metric thread. (None of my
queries on where they got them have been answered)
Anyone got other ideas on a source?
At this point I am simple contemplating drilling and rethreading the
fittings to a more standard size. It will be tough to get a simple
thread pressure tight.. but I have no other ideas.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On this note, Is there any way for an East Coaster to look at, and maybe
even DRIVE one of the Th!nk Cities? I have heard so many good things about
them I'd just love to actually *SEE* one.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
A person's maturity consists in having found again the seriousness one had
as a child, at play. - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Nick Carter
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Th!nk City
>
>
> > As I recall, Ford got tired of complaints from customers. The
> > dealership/s may have tried to fix problems, but, having a car
> > that was easy, but not lucrative, to maintain spelled doom from
> > the start. If not for the fear of
>
> I spoke with the tech who does the maintenance on
> Th!nk City EVs at S&C San Francisco yesterday.
> I'd taken our car there for its "maintenance",
> i.e. an excuse for F&^d to charge me ~$100 for
> plugging in the diagnostic tool, doing a charge/discharge
> cycle and watering the batteries... >80
> Anyway, he freely admitted that they hadn't
> had a single battery failure, that the cars
> had been very reliable and a colleague of his
> added that all the drivers loved their City cars
> but that the *Neighbor* NEV was a pile of &^%$.
> There's a big difference between the two.
> For starters, I couldn't have driven the latter the
> ~65 miles, half on the freeway, that I drove the City
> to get it in for service.
>
> Also had the joy of seeing Lawrence Rhodes sweep by
> on his electric motorcycle, while we were stopped
> at a light in San Francisco!
> Way to go Lawrence :)
> Nick
>
> Dr Nick Carter,
> Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
> http://www.npcimaging.com
>
> Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
> "Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
>
> ***************************************************************
> ** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD **
> ** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
> ** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
> ** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
> ** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock **
> ***************************************************************
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The data sheet says that it can handle +/-35V. me
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Elaine-
I don't see the desulfator circuits as snake oil or a miracle.
I also don't see the approach as bad science or voodoo, despite the lack of
detailed supporting theory.
Nor can I say that I'm personally convinced that the common circuits work or
don't work.
I have built one, but so far it isn't producing its HF pulses without
overheating its FET too quickly, so my personal experience is nil.
Nevertheless, unlike the earlier response you received, I'm not going to
bash the circuits, the vendors, the technology or the lack of hard science.
Instead, I'll revert to common sense.
It seems to me that the concept of delivering high energy pulses into a
sulfated battery to try to help electromechanically or electro-acoustically
vibrate or crack loose resistant sulfate deposits is nothing less than a
common sense theory with practical devices deployed for decades in jewelry
and denture cleaning and other areas.
Maybe, as Lee Hart opines, the theory lacks a credible scientific basis, but
far be it from this engineer to pre-emptively shoot it down when it has been
demonstrated that acoustic and mechanical vibration can break debris free.
Now, if you want to judge for yourself and keep your mind open while being
able to stay away from the profiteer angle alluded to, then I'd suggest
starting with the Desulfator groups online:
http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm
http://pub36.ezboard.com/fleadacidbatterydesulfationfrm1
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/desulfator/
Next, I'd suggest reading the original article in Home Power Magazine
Issue#77 which started the big interest in electronic desulfation:
http://www.homepower.com/files/desulfator.pdf
Most everything and all the circuits people have tinkered with have spawned
from this simple HF flyback oscillator circuit.
Hopefully this sheds some light for those who wish to explore these
desulfators themselves.
Incidentally, Lee Hart is right: batteries which are treated correctly don't
require any magic to keep them healthy.
Unfortunately, we have all known instances where batteries have been abused.
Often, we are the abusers. If we limit ourselves only to the conventional
solutions to reviving poorly treated batteries, we may be doing a serious
disservice to our pocketbooks, let alone the environment. We should ALL be
keenly interested in not recycling batteries which have been abused if
there's even a remote chance in battery hell of recovering badly sulfated
batteries through EDTA and/or electronic desulfation concoctions.
Remember: The proof is in the pudding. Noone on this list could prove
scientifically that the Evercel NiZn batteries would last the spec'd number
of cycles OR that they'd live up to the claims of being minimally affected
by relatively low temperatures. RATHER, it's with the real world testing of
various EV enthusiasts and the diligence and generosity of Joe Smalley and
Rich Rudman in their willingness to do life testing on these that we are
gaining knowledge and confidence in them. Still, noone on this list will
likely be able to give you a scientific explanation for why these batteries
might be OK with low temperatures.
Neither can anyone on this list explain how the Lithium battery chemistry
reaction directly relates to how much charging current vs charging
temperature. It's with actual testing that we find operational limits that
we then confidently state that from experience certain batteries with a
general chemistry seem to be able to be reliably charged and do not suffer
from cycle life limitations.
My point is that we regularly accept things that work despite a full
understanding of why they work. We carefully test, verify and observe the
results, or go with the results and assessment of those we do trust.
Indeed, it may be true that such careful testing and reporting has not yet
been done for electronic desulfators....then again, maybe it has. I believe
it deserves a fresh look and assessment.
-Myles Twete, Portland, OR.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only east coast Th!nks I know of are in NY as part of NYPA's
commuter train program. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the group many
with Th!nk Cities subscribe to.
My car has been great, 17,000 miles without a problem. Ford will take
it away in a few months.
Marc
San Francisco
On Apr 14, 2004, at 11:27 AM, James Jarrett wrote:
On this note, Is there any way for an East Coaster to look at, and
maybe
even DRIVE one of the Th!nk Cities? I have heard so many good things
about
them I'd just love to actually *SEE* one.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
A person's maturity consists in having found again the seriousness one
had
as a child, at play. - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Nick Carter
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Th!nk City
As I recall, Ford got tired of complaints from customers. The
dealership/s may have tried to fix problems, but, having a car
that was easy, but not lucrative, to maintain spelled doom from
the start. If not for the fear of
I spoke with the tech who does the maintenance on
Th!nk City EVs at S&C San Francisco yesterday.
I'd taken our car there for its "maintenance",
i.e. an excuse for F&^d to charge me ~$100 for
plugging in the diagnostic tool, doing a charge/discharge
cycle and watering the batteries... >80
Anyway, he freely admitted that they hadn't
had a single battery failure, that the cars
had been very reliable and a colleague of his
added that all the drivers loved their City cars
but that the *Neighbor* NEV was a pile of &^%$.
There's a big difference between the two.
For starters, I couldn't have driven the latter the
~65 miles, half on the freeway, that I drove the City
to get it in for service.
Also had the joy of seeing Lawrence Rhodes sweep by
on his electric motorcycle, while we were stopped
at a light in San Francisco!
Way to go Lawrence :)
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD **
** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock **
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about checking a tractor supply place, and just having them make up a
flexible hydraulic line for you? I've done similar to replace the copper brake
lines used on an old military truck - and since it is designed for hydraulic
fluid, you should not experience significant losses.
Kevin
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Or why everything that seems simply isn't really.
>
> The MR2 is sitting massively disassembled in my garage as I try to
> figure out the last few things that are keeping it from being a "daily"
> driver.
>
> The original glider was equipped with Toyota's heavy 4 speed automatic.
> Early in the project I went grave robbing and swiped the even heavier
> (and much coveted) 5 speed manual from a junkyard '88 supercharged as
> well as most of the parts required to convert the car (ie clutch pedal
> and master cylinder, smaller brake pedal and shift arm and cables)
> Fearing snakes, fire ants and falling cars I did not crawl under the car
> and remove the 10' long steel clutch piping. (it wasn't likely to
> survive the trip home without kinking anyway.
>
> So... now I have a clutch pedal, and slave cylinder, and zero way of
> connecting them. The MR2 drives like an average car in third gear and
> shifts acceptably without the clutch into 4th. Sadly second gear, and
> the truly entertaining launches it holds are out of reach...
>
> A trip to the local auto parts stores, and even a clutch and brake
> specialty house proved that brake and clutch lines are only stocked
> around a few standard customary sizes. The fittings on the master and
> slave cylinders are an oddball metric pipe thread as far as anyone can
> tell. The master originally had a hollow bolt and banjo assembly, which
> toyota parts no longer supplies. I've heard people online cursing these
> fitting on other toyota products, but in most cases they found a banjo
> fitting that adapters to a more standard metric thread. (None of my
> queries on where they got them have been answered)
>
> Anyone got other ideas on a source?
>
> At this point I am simple contemplating drilling and rethreading the
> fittings to a more standard size. It will be tough to get a simple
> thread pressure tight.. but I have no other ideas.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well true. My thought right now is to take 50 of these, wire each one to
one of the batteries, and run the output into a 50 wide 10 bar LED meter
array. With nice green-yellow-red display for the battery pack voltage.
I don't need to see what the pack voltage is, or even the battery
voltage per se. What I need to see is how the batteries are holding up
in relation to each other over a period of time. Putting this on the hot
circuit of my relay-battery monitor frob could show me that.
The other way to go is to get a voltage optoisolator with PV output,
however the only ones I see are for 5 volt input (which could be
augmented with a resistor, but do I then lose sensitivity) and are those
linear with respect to input voltage vs. output voltage
Chris
Eidson, Mark wrote:
The data sheet says that it can handle +/-35V. me
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, retap it to the SAE hydraulic standard that uses the O-Ring. I forget
what they are called.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Farver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Clutch plumbing...
>
> Or why everything that seems simply isn't really.
>
> The MR2 is sitting massively disassembled in my garage as I try to
> figure out the last few things that are keeping it from being a "daily"
> driver.
>
> The original glider was equipped with Toyota's heavy 4 speed automatic.
> Early in the project I went grave robbing and swiped the even heavier
> (and much coveted) 5 speed manual from a junkyard '88 supercharged as
> well as most of the parts required to convert the car (ie clutch pedal
> and master cylinder, smaller brake pedal and shift arm and cables)
> Fearing snakes, fire ants and falling cars I did not crawl under the car
> and remove the 10' long steel clutch piping. (it wasn't likely to
> survive the trip home without kinking anyway.
>
> So... now I have a clutch pedal, and slave cylinder, and zero way of
> connecting them. The MR2 drives like an average car in third gear and
> shifts acceptably without the clutch into 4th. Sadly second gear, and
> the truly entertaining launches it holds are out of reach...
>
> A trip to the local auto parts stores, and even a clutch and brake
> specialty house proved that brake and clutch lines are only stocked
> around a few standard customary sizes. The fittings on the master and
> slave cylinders are an oddball metric pipe thread as far as anyone can
> tell. The master originally had a hollow bolt and banjo assembly, which
> toyota parts no longer supplies. I've heard people online cursing these
> fitting on other toyota products, but in most cases they found a banjo
> fitting that adapters to a more standard metric thread. (None of my
> queries on where they got them have been answered)
>
> Anyone got other ideas on a source?
>
> At this point I am simple contemplating drilling and rethreading the
> fittings to a more standard size. It will be tough to get a simple
> thread pressure tight.. but I have no other ideas.
>
> Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
your idea it the end of this post is right. just get
a standard pipe or tubing die and fittings before you
do the drill and tap thing
good luck
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Or why everything that seems simply isn't really.
>
> The MR2 is sitting massively disassembled in my
> garage as I try to
> figure out the last few things that are keeping it
> from being a "daily"
> driver.
>
> The original glider was equipped with Toyota's heavy
> 4 speed automatic.
> Early in the project I went grave robbing and swiped
> the even heavier
> (and much coveted) 5 speed manual from a junkyard
> '88 supercharged as
> well as most of the parts required to convert the
> car (ie clutch pedal
> and master cylinder, smaller brake pedal and shift
> arm and cables)
> Fearing snakes, fire ants and falling cars I did not
> crawl under the car
> and remove the 10' long steel clutch piping. (it
> wasn't likely to
> survive the trip home without kinking anyway.
>
> So... now I have a clutch pedal, and slave cylinder,
> and zero way of
> connecting them. The MR2 drives like an average car
> in third gear and
> shifts acceptably without the clutch into 4th.
> Sadly second gear, and
> the truly entertaining launches it holds are out of
> reach...
>
> A trip to the local auto parts stores, and even a
> clutch and brake
> specialty house proved that brake and clutch lines
> are only stocked
> around a few standard customary sizes. The fittings
> on the master and
> slave cylinders are an oddball metric pipe thread as
> far as anyone can
> tell. The master originally had a hollow bolt and
> banjo assembly, which
> toyota parts no longer supplies. I've heard people
> online cursing these
> fitting on other toyota products, but in most cases
> they found a banjo
> fitting that adapters to a more standard metric
> thread. (None of my
> queries on where they got them have been answered)
>
> Anyone got other ideas on a source?
>
> At this point I am simple contemplating drilling and
> rethreading the
> fittings to a more standard size. It will be tough
> to get a simple
> thread pressure tight.. but I have no other ideas.
>
> Mark
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are 99% Snake Oil, with just the tiniest bit of hard science
thrown in (to keep them out of jail). There seem to be two kinds:
1. Those produced by naive backyard tinkerers that don't really know
anything about batteries, and have deluded themselves with bad testing
into thinking that it works.
2. Con artists who know full well that it is junk science, and are
just out to cheat people out of their money.
So which group does Soniel fall into?? They are a very reputable company
and claim that their highly regarded smart chargers have high frequency
cycles to help reduce sulfation.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:13 AM, Mark Farver
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A trip to the local auto parts stores, and even a clutch and brake
> specialty house proved that brake and clutch lines are only stocked
> around a few standard customary sizes. The fittings on the master
> and slave cylinders are an oddball metric pipe thread as far as
> anyone can tell. The master originally had a hollow bolt and banjo
> assembly, which toyota parts no longer supplies. I've heard people
> online cursing these fitting on other toyota products, but in most
> cases they found a banjo fitting that adapters to a more standard
> metric thread. (None of my queries on where they got them have
> been answered)
>
> Anyone got other ideas on a source?
Mark,
Two suggestions:
- metric banjo bolts/fittings are common fare for Japanese
motorcycles (used on the hydraulic brakes). There are aftermarket
parts suppliers who will make custom (teflon-lined) brake lines for
bikes, so they must be able to source the fittings. A bike wrecker
ought to be able to come up with a banjo bolt if you can't get a
suitable one from a dealer.
- go back to the boneyard and get the original Toyota banjo bolt from
a wreck (if you didn't keep the one you removed when you picked up
the master cylinder?). Once you have the bolt, you ought to be able
to find a standard banjo fitting close enough to the proper size that
you can either ream it out or simply rely on the copper washers that
install on each side of a banjo fitting to seal it. While at the
wrecker, cut the slave end off the line and keep the metric fitting
from it; it is far easier to cut a standard steel line, slip the
metric fitting on, and re-flare the line than to drill and tap the
slave for a standard fitting. BTW, import cars often use metric
fittings on their brake lines, and you most certainly can buy
replacement lines for them (though steel lines typically come in only
a relatively few standard lengths).
Good luck,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, Jerry and list:
I fixed the "first draft" of the E-woody webpage. I had to take into
account that the pictures were cropped, and scale appropriately. I also
noticed that some of the pictures had been switched, so the wrong
descriptions were with some photos. I fixed that, too. Sorry for the
goofup. Bet the listers got a kick out of looking at the back labeled as
the front, though!
www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/ewoody/ewoody.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
> So which group does Soniel fall into? They are a very reputable
> company and claim that their highly regarded smart chargers have
> high frequency cycles to help reduce sulfation.
Soniel makes real chargers, that really do charge batteries. These are
real products that do honest, measurable work. They are only 'high
frequency' because they happen to use a switching power supply, which
inherently outputs some high frequency energy. In other words, their
marketing people are touting an inherent characteristic of every
switching supply as if it is their own unique feature.
I think everyone realizes that 99% of every company's sales literature
consists of exaggerations, half-truths, and outright lies if they think
they won't get caught. *Every* product is "new", "improved", "unique",
"revolutionary", etc. in the eyes of their marketing people.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> DUDE! ;-)
>
> Ref. your last paragraph;
>
> You need to get your hands on a Discovery Channel Film crew.
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
We tried they didn't get back to John or Otmar.
And Kinda funny the Gone postal has both kinds of drives a single large
motor with a tranny up from and series paralel in the back.
So far we have burnt the front motor up with a miss wired front motor,
and replaced it, and scattered the back drives 4 times, but not hurt the
motors.
So we have both concpets working in one EV. Both drives should do sub
15s alone.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you go to a performance controller, (1000 amps or more) then definitely
change the entire drive train. With a 1000 amp controller we used to
routinely twist off transmission output shafts on a stock RX7 tranny and
your wimpy Metro tranny certainly won't handle the torque. I have always
thought a stock bodied high performance Metropolitan would be the perfect
sleeper except that looking from the back someone might notice the two wide
rear tires under the tubbed rear end with the ultra narrowed nine inch with
the tires almost touching each other :-)
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:52 AM
Subject: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
> just got my hands on a chopped lowered lavender to hot pink flame painted
metro.(MACHO). need some advice on a relatvely hot ev conversion.
> spsomerville no wax(sinecere)
>
>
> signature SP SOMERVILLE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually Tim, we at "Suck Amps EV Racing" already have a nice light drag car
that was running 11 seconds flat with only 100 motor volts. There's much
more left in the "Maniac Mazda". Actually the producer chooses the project
from ones I submit. GP was one of four. I would actually prefer to build a
high performance electric wheelchair for Trevor Snowden aka "Trev-Air" who
currently jumps Cadillacs with his towed wheelchair. Check out
www.electroquad.com. A self propelled high performance one would be a great
project. Trevor was a world class snowboarder who became a paraplegic in a
snowboarding accident.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
> Agreed! If/when Sucking Amps gets picked up, they're going to need
> projects. I nice light drag car would make a perfect counterpoint
> to GP, and you might even get some freebie parts.
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:08:19 -0400
> From: "" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> DUDE! ;-)
>
> Ref. your last paragraph;
>
> You need to get your hands on a Discovery Channel Film crew.
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms
and
> more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Anyone ever used one of these? Can they handle isolation when reading
> multiple batteries in series?
No, the inputs and outputs are not isolated.
Note that the absolute maximum supply voltage is 25v. Thus the most it
could be connected to is a single 12v battery (which can get up to 16v
on occasion).
It only measures a single voltage, and converts it into a 1-10 LED bar
graph. Thus, you would need a separate LM3916 for every battery, and all
the wires between them must be isolated.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ELECTROGEL
(SYNTHETIC POLYMER GEL ELECTROLYTE)
NEW POLYMER TECHNOLOGY FOR LONG LIFE LEAD ACID BATTERIES.
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website: www.geocities.com/kvintl
email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- End Message ---
