EV Digest 3465
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: LM3916
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Beefing up contactors
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Corrected pics, Re: E-Woody Pictures on the web at last!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Beefing up contactors
by "Ed Thorpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Any Thoughts on ELECTROGEL???
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Chargers...Most automated for 120v
by "Dave Ganapoler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
by stephen somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
by stephen somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Beefing up contactors
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Chargers...Most automated for 120v
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Any Thoughts on ELECTROGEL???
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVLN(Newsweek: Escape hybrid puts out less pollution than an
EV)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Clutch plumbing...
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Battery load test, take 1
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Zivan Question
by Todd Ensign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Chargers...Most automated for 120v
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LM3916
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Beefing up contactors
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: LM3916
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EVLN(ZAP crack LONG)More Stuff
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by elaine chiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: desulfator circuits?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Right, that is the key. Otherwise one would have an interesting 300 volt
plasma fire when it was all engaged.
All however is not lost: One could use an optoisolator attached to the
battery with the (they use micro solar cells?) attached to this thing.
The question is are optoisolators linear circuits, and do people make 12
volt ones that can be installed in quantity?
Chris
Lee Hart wrote:
Christopher Zach wrote:
Anyone ever used one of these? Can they handle isolation when reading
multiple batteries in series?
No, the inputs and outputs are not isolated.
Note that the absolute maximum supply voltage is 25v. Thus the most it
could be connected to is a single 12v battery (which can get up to 16v
on occasion).
It only measures a single voltage, and converts it into a 1-10 LED bar
graph. Thus, you would need a separate LM3916 for every battery, and all
the wires between them must be isolated.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a supplier. I have not contacted them personally. Mark T.
http://www.kaylor-kit.com/
"Our emphasized special is the Kilovac EV200 (Czonka III) contactor. This
contactor is rated from 12DC up to 1800VDC. It will operate from either
12VDC or 24VDC using only 1 watt of coil power. It is rated for one million
mechanical cycles. It will carry 200A continuously and 500A for 10 seconds.
It will break 500A 10,000 times at 120VDC before dropping to 50megohms open
circuit (negligible degradation). The Czonka III is smaller than a tennis
ball and weighs less than 1 pound. It is hermetically sealed and has
magnetic blowout. The aerospace predecessors sold for about ten times as
much. Contactor with electronic control is only $69.95!!! Plus $5.00 S&H,
plus 8.25% tax for California purchasers."
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
> Most of the time that would be the best idea, however this is for a
special
> purpose. However I will be needing some high voltage contactors in the
> future, who has the Czonkas for that cheap? Thanks David Chapman.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
>
>
> > Just out of curiosity, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper just to buy a
> > contactor rated for high voltage DC?
> >
> > After all the Czonka III is only about $80 or so.
> >
> > On Tue, 2004-04-13 at 02:54, David Chapman wrote:
> > > Thanks Mark and Lee,
> > > Appreciate all the backround tech and suggestions. One last question
on
> this
> > > tho, what do you think is the best mechanical solid state insulator if
> > > brittleness is not an issue? Glass? That was my best guess. Regards,
> David
> > > Chapman.
> > --
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> > capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> > safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
The corrected pics of the E-woody are online now
at the address below.
Thanks, David,
jerry dycus
--- David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, at long last, Jerry dycus's E-Woody is on the
> web. I have put them up
> on my page at:
>
>
http://www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/ewoody/ewoody.htm
>
> (I hope that link works for everybody).
>
> I have also sent them to Mike for the album.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> David Brandt
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Probably a more reliable supplier:
www.evparts.com
$97.50 plus shipping
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
Here is a supplier. I have not contacted them personally. Mark T.
http://www.kaylor-kit.com/
"Our emphasized special is the Kilovac EV200 (Czonka III) contactor. This
contactor is rated from 12DC up to 1800VDC. It will operate from either
12VDC or 24VDC using only 1 watt of coil power. It is rated for one million
mechanical cycles. It will carry 200A continuously and 500A for 10 seconds.
It will break 500A 10,000 times at 120VDC before dropping to 50megohms open
circuit (negligible degradation). The Czonka III is smaller than a tennis
ball and weighs less than 1 pound. It is hermetically sealed and has
magnetic blowout. The aerospace predecessors sold for about ten times as
much. Contactor with electronic control is only $69.95!!! Plus $5.00 S&H,
plus 8.25% tax for California purchasers."
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
> Most of the time that would be the best idea, however this is for a
special
> purpose. However I will be needing some high voltage contactors in the
> future, who has the Czonkas for that cheap? Thanks David Chapman.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
>
>
> > Just out of curiosity, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper just to buy a
> > contactor rated for high voltage DC?
> >
> > After all the Czonka III is only about $80 or so.
> >
> > On Tue, 2004-04-13 at 02:54, David Chapman wrote:
> > > Thanks Mark and Lee,
> > > Appreciate all the backround tech and suggestions. One last question
on
> this
> > > tho, what do you think is the best mechanical solid state insulator if
> > > brittleness is not an issue? Glass? That was my best guess. Regards,
> David
> > > Chapman.
> > --
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> > capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> > safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Here's a hint to add some confusion to the mix. It first had a single 9 inch ADC/5
> speed
> at 180V, then it had the single 11 inch race modified Kostov/5 speed at 240V (later
> bumped
> up to direct drive at 336V}, then it had the twin 8 Netgain-Warfields/direct drive
> at up
> to 408V...now, the Zombie's got something big and round presently being worked on and
> destined to go under the hood (it will remain direct drive and will have variable
> motorized brush timing), something that should make some serious torque (700-800 ft.
> lbs.?) and HP (300+??)!! The twin 8's will be pulled very soon....right after I use
> them
> to blast off a mid-to-low 13 second run in a few weekends
> from now, just to make it a bit tougher for Oat to catch me :-)...then, the Zombie
> goes
> under the knife for it fourth motor transplant. Oh yeah, Rudman's involved, and the
> Wayland-Rudman
> dynamic duo means it will get wacky and wild along the way, but the Madman's
> expertise on
> these things is always an asset!
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
Yes John and I have talked in depth about this "Monster" motor. In fact
I was sworn to secrecy over it... I am rather surprised to see this on
the list, and in Fact Rod and Dennis have already phoned me over this...
John and I and his motor builder, are going to have to do a LOT of home
work with this motor. The motor guy has a Pro motor rebuild shop, and
many years of experience. But Stock rebuilds are a long way from Grenade
mode Race motors. I hope to get them pointed in the right direction, and
do quite a bit of Dyno testing for them.
John, I think you need to keep those twin 8s..or give them to me...
Just so if we have the inevidable setback, you still can Race The
Zombie. There is a awefull lot of improvements that we can do with twin
8 and series paralel. Like....I have a spiffy 2K Zilla.... in gone
postal right now. That could spend a weekend or two in Zombie... and
grab that 100 mph pass. And I know the twin 8 have basicly Stock brushes
and timing. In Fact... I demonstrated to Plasma boy the lack of brush
break in. I yanked a brush from the front 8 on The Zombie and it had
only about %80 of the brush face wiped by the commutator. Here
John...here's your 100 MPH pass, Just Lap in the carbon, and spin them
for about a day.
Then go Bag your 100 mph pass.
Even us Fast guys are learning the hard way. I rather learn about motor
health and tricks than sit around and wish for better batteries.
Right now I have about 12 chargers to create... and Goldie ate her PFC30
#1 yesterday. Another nasty 240 volt Genset blew out the 15 volt
universal power supply. This is Oh about the 6 charger to die this way.
Most have been by my hand, but it's gotta be solved. Stuffing 800 volts
into a 400 volt electrolytic is NOT a smart idea, but it happens so
often, That we need to protect our chargers from it. You all should read
the App note #1 on our website before plugging in a charger to 240 volts
without checking the quality of the 240.
When in doubt run the charger off of the 120 volt ports. It's less snort
but it is much safer. I ran this very charger off of 30 amps of 120,
without a issue, I wanted the next 1500 watts since this it the main
Genset for the Silver Bullet and the bike of Tom True's and Father Time.
So... more stuff to STUFF into a charger.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Ganapoler wrote:
HOW ELECTROGEL PROTECTS CORROSION AND SULPHATION?
ELECTROGEL when filled into the new battery along with sulphuric acid,it
utilises the power from the charged plates and turns into a protective film
on each battery plate within 3 to 4 hours depending on the size of the
battery.
From what I know about lead acid battery:
The power a battery can deliver is proportional to the active
plates area. More area = less internal resistance = less voltage sag
= more power out.
As soon as you coat an active plate with ANYTHING (which prevents
ions from accessing the plates in entire plates area to move the
charge), internal resistance will inevitably increase.
So, sure, the film prevents active material from chipping out,
but it is no longer as "active" either, so the battery may live
twice as long but is twice less powerful now. Degree of this
effect depends how porous this film is for ions in the
electrolyte.
Using this method, you still should get close to original
capacity out, and for applications where the power is not
a concern, it may be OK. Therefore they brag that the battery
can leave longer, but no word about how usable it is
after treatment *for its original application*.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard that Zivan or PFC are good ones. Anyone have any idea which
would be best for a battery pack of 10 12v acid flood batteries?
Dave Ganapoler
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
THANKS, anyone done this?
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:If you go to a performance controller, (1000
amps or more) then definitely
change the entire drive train. With a 1000 amp controller we used to
routinely twist off transmission output shafts on a stock RX7 tranny and
your wimpy Metro tranny certainly won't handle the torque. I have always
thought a stock bodied high performance Metropolitan would be the perfect
sleeper except that looking from the back someone might notice the two wide
rear tires under the tubbed rear end with the ultra narrowed nine inch with
the tires almost touching each other :-)
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen somerville"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:52 AM
Subject: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
> just got my hands on a chopped lowered lavender to hot pink flame painted
metro.(MACHO). need some advice on a relatvely hot ev conversion.
> spsomerville no wax(sinecere)
>
>
> signature SP SOMERVILLE
signature SP SOMERVILLE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, will post picture un about 1 week then updates on conversion.
keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:WOW
I sure would like to see a picture, I agree that a
standard zilla/Gone Postal type of conversion would be
the way to go. Not sure if the trannie and running
gear on the metro could handle the power. good luck
have fun
--- bobrice wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stephen somerville
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:52 AM
> Subject: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
>
>
> > just got my hands on a chopped lowered lavender to
> hot pink flame painted
> metro.(MACHO). need some advice on a relatvely hot
> ev conversion.
> > spsomerville no wax(sinecere)
> >
> > Hi Steve!
>
> Glad to see that ya came on the List! Welcome
> aboard as per our phone
> conversation, yesterday. Guyz! After Steve told me
> about this Metro, Nash,
> Rambler, not GM he HAD to run it by the garus on the
> List. I'd say start
> with a 8 or 9" motor, through the clutch and tranny,
> Orbitals and a Zilla,
> fed from one of the Rich, at Manzanita Micro's
> offerings to get him started
> right. This could be a fun, different sort of EV!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> > signature SP SOMERVILLE
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
signature SP SOMERVILLE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For general use, almost any kind of insulator will work at typical EV
voltage levels. It should be mechanically strong enough for the application
and preferably non-porous. I've used epoxy glass fiber board up to 5 kV.
It's strong and easy to machine. If you're still thinking about something
to interrupt the arc on the contactor, we may need a materials expert for
advice. You would need something with high dielectric strength, high
melting point, and low thermal expansion. Regular glass would melt or
crack. Maybe Pyrex or a ceramic like the material they use in Corning ware?
Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
> Thanks Mark and Lee,
> Appreciate all the backround tech and suggestions. One last question on
this
> tho, what do you think is the best mechanical solid state insulator if
> brittleness is not an issue? Glass? That was my best guess. Regards, David
> Chapman.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Ganapoler wrote:
I've heard that Zivan or PFC are good ones. Anyone have any idea which
would be best for a battery pack of 10 12v acid flood batteries?
Dave Ganapoler
The most automated one is BRUSA NLG-511, but it has perhaps
more automation than you might need for modest PbA pack of
flooded batteries. You'll be paying for features you won't
take advantage of (if you stick to flooded PbA).
Considering the charge rate and what I've heard about support,
PFCs are the winners. If you absolutely require isolation,
Zivans are isolated, but PFCs have this option too. Then
you consider total size/dimensions/cost and prioritize things.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too am very interested in this type of product. I met the designers of
a similar product at EVS20 called "alphagel" and their claims are worth
examining. The two claims that I have the most interest in:
The claim of lower internal resistance: suposedly this means that the
batteries can be charged and discharged faster than without the product
and with less heat.
The claim of all weather suitability: this one is very interesting.
According to company testing data that I saw at EVS, batteries with the
gel >vastly< outperform the same batteries with standard electrolyte in
colder temperatures.
It seems like these claims are very easy to test and either prove or
disprove. Anyone actually TESTED either of these? Theory is fine, but
it's just theory until the hard data is collected by an independent
party.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the whole "ICE cleans the air" thing comes from the notion
that in heavily polluted areas with already bad air a very clean
ICE might actually remove some of the bad stuff that it "inhales"
with the oxygen its uses for combustion. Not to be confused with
the Carbon Dioxide emissions which are directly linked to gas useage.
Even so, it's a very deceptive and compounded sort of assurtion.
I for one would very much like to see a full retraction from
Gersh Kuntzman of Newsweek and MSN for this blanket attack on
"an electric car", which _will never emit any pollution_.
L8r
Ryan
PS. I know we've been seeing far to much fringe commentary about
this article, but the initial statment made in print is one
concreate example which we can rebut with confidence.
Did Ford actually say: "puts out less pollution than an electric car"?
If so, THAT needs to STOP!
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
EVLN(Newsweek: Escape hybrid puts out less pollution than an EV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4724092/
A Guilt-Free SUV?
Ford has made a hybrid-powered SUV that gets more miles to the
gallon—and emits less pollution—than most cars. Our columnist puts
it to the testWEB-EXCLUSIVE COMMENTARY By Gersh Kuntzman Newsweek
Updated: 2:49 p.m. ET April 12, 2004April 12 - Look out, my fellow
liberals, but we're about to get run over by an SUV! Ford has just
introduced one that gets 40 miles a gallon and puts out less
pollution than an electric car.
blah blah blah BS blah blah blah blah, nevermind all the other stuff.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
should be 10mm bubble flare . A flaring kit is ~$50 and some pipe and
ends a few more bucks. Or buy them off the rack. I would try a real
auto parts store. Not Pep boy/Autozone. Maybe a NAPA or your local guy.
If it really is something funky, try pegasus.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/ I think. For a price they have
everything. And formula (toyota) atlantic parts are in there...
Seth
On Apr 14, 2004, at 2:28 PM, Kevin Coughlin wrote:
How about checking a tractor supply place, and just having them make
up a
flexible hydraulic line for you? I've done similar to replace the
copper brake
lines used on an old military truck - and since it is designed for
hydraulic
fluid, you should not experience significant losses.
Kevin
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Or why everything that seems simply isn't really.
The MR2 is sitting massively disassembled in my garage as I try to
figure out the last few things that are keeping it from being a
"daily"
driver.
The original glider was equipped with Toyota's heavy 4 speed
automatic.
Early in the project I went grave robbing and swiped the even heavier
(and much coveted) 5 speed manual from a junkyard '88 supercharged as
well as most of the parts required to convert the car (ie clutch pedal
and master cylinder, smaller brake pedal and shift arm and cables)
Fearing snakes, fire ants and falling cars I did not crawl under the
car
and remove the 10' long steel clutch piping. (it wasn't likely to
survive the trip home without kinking anyway.
So... now I have a clutch pedal, and slave cylinder, and zero way of
connecting them. The MR2 drives like an average car in third gear and
shifts acceptably without the clutch into 4th. Sadly second gear, and
the truly entertaining launches it holds are out of reach...
A trip to the local auto parts stores, and even a clutch and brake
specialty house proved that brake and clutch lines are only stocked
around a few standard customary sizes. The fittings on the master and
slave cylinders are an oddball metric pipe thread as far as anyone can
tell. The master originally had a hollow bolt and banjo assembly,
which
toyota parts no longer supplies. I've heard people online cursing
these
fitting on other toyota products, but in most cases they found a banjo
fitting that adapters to a more standard metric thread. (None of my
queries on where they got them have been answered)
Anyone got other ideas on a source?
At this point I am simple contemplating drilling and rethreading the
fittings to a more standard size. It will be tough to get a simple
thread pressure tight.. but I have no other ideas.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charged up 3 of the batteries after the big load test. After a day on
the chargers each, the runtime is as follows:
15amp load.
Battery 1: 3/4 hour
Battery 2: 1 hour
Battery 3: 3/4 hour
All tests to 9.9 volts. I noticed that once the voltage starts falling
it goes down like a rock.
So they are 12 to 15 ah in capacity. I'm going to try charging again and
see what happens.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I drive a 144 V Fiero.
Question 1: I picked up a Zivan NG3 (110 V input) and after longer
drives, I tend to pop the 20 amp circuit breaker I am plugged into.
Does anyone know how many amps this unit draws when my batteries are
pretty discharged?
Question 2: I really need some practical tips on the use of this
charger, such as is it OK to start a new charge cycle (by resetting my
breaker that popped) if my batteries were already charged up? How do I
do an equalization charge? Is it OK to mount the unit inside my engine
compartment where it is sheltered from the elements, but can get some
indirect moisture OR should I mount it inside my trunk?
Any tips are appreciated.
Todd Ensign
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave, for 12 V floodeds you probably don't need a very complex charger,
probably a Russco would work fine as long as it had some kind of timer. I
must admit I don't have much first hand experiance with Russcos, but from
what I saw of the one in my Jet it was nicely built and worked well. This
would probably be your least expensive choice. That said, Rich Rudman makes
a darn good charger in the Power Factor Corrected line. They are have a
great range, modular controlability and would be a good investment if you
might ever considering upgrading your pack to different technology
batteries. His prices are reasonable for the quality and service you can
expect. He is fairly easy to get ahold of by phone if you need tech support,
and we know where he lives!! He is also someone working within the EV field,
building excellent products and sharing great amounts of knowledge and
frankly can use all the support he can get. I don't know how much the Zivans
are, but unless there is a large disparity in price I certainly know who I
will be sending the money to when the Martin Marietta charger in my G-van
smokes. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ganapoler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: Chargers...Most automated for 120v
> I've heard that Zivan or PFC are good ones. Anyone have any idea which
> would be best for a battery pack of 10 12v acid flood batteries?
>
> Dave Ganapoler
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about putting a single low-voltage LED on each battery? Then a
bundle of plastic fibers back to the dash board and you can remotely see
all 50 at once. If one battery is going low (< 10.5 volts) sooner than
the rest, it needs help. If all the batteries go under at once then it's
time to ease off the go pedal, or re-charge the entire pack.
Christopher Zach wrote:
I don't need to see what the pack voltage is, or even the battery
voltage per se. What I need to see is how the batteries are holding up
in relation to each other over a period of time.
--
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many years ago I stuffed/shoehorned a built 302 into one with a severely
narrowed 9" and beefed C-4. I had to chop the fenderwells out, fit a
straight front end and run fenderwell headers. Thing was freaking scary!! I
would much rather see one done as an EV, would be really neat and much more
drivable. See Rods previously posted sage advice on dumping the original
drivetrain with the addendum of figuring on doing some work on the chassis,
steering and front brakes as well (assuming you go with the 9" you will
already have decent rear brakes). David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
> THANKS, anyone done this?
>
> Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:If you go to a performance
controller, (1000 amps or more) then definitely
> change the entire drive train. With a 1000 amp controller we used to
> routinely twist off transmission output shafts on a stock RX7 tranny and
> your wimpy Metro tranny certainly won't handle the torque. I have always
> thought a stock bodied high performance Metropolitan would be the perfect
> sleeper except that looking from the back someone might notice the two
wide
> rear tires under the tubbed rear end with the ultra narrowed nine inch
with
> the tires almost touching each other :-)
>
> Roderick
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stephen somerville"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:52 AM
> Subject: ev conversion 61 nash metropolitan
>
>
> > just got my hands on a chopped lowered lavender to hot pink flame
painted
> metro.(MACHO). need some advice on a relatvely hot ev conversion.
> > spsomerville no wax(sinecere)
> >
> >
> > signature SP SOMERVILLE
>
>
>
> signature SP SOMERVILLE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the URL Mark and alternate supplier Ed. Hmm, I didn't know the
C3s were so small @ 200 amps continuous. I already have a good supply of 400
amp Leechs (the ones I was planning on adding mags to). I just realized that
I misspoke earlier when I said "high voltage" contactors, what I really will
need is high amperage. Or do the C3s amp ratings go up drastically as the
voltage goes down? I think I will have to chase down the Kilovac Data sheet.
TTYL David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
> Here is a supplier. I have not contacted them personally. Mark T.
>
> http://www.kaylor-kit.com/
>
> "Our emphasized special is the Kilovac EV200 (Czonka III) contactor. This
> contactor is rated from 12DC up to 1800VDC. It will operate from either
> 12VDC or 24VDC using only 1 watt of coil power. It is rated for one
million
> mechanical cycles. It will carry 200A continuously and 500A for 10
seconds.
> It will break 500A 10,000 times at 120VDC before dropping to 50megohms
open
> circuit (negligible degradation). The Czonka III is smaller than a tennis
> ball and weighs less than 1 pound. It is hermetically sealed and has
> magnetic blowout. The aerospace predecessors sold for about ten times as
> much. Contactor with electronic control is only $69.95!!! Plus $5.00 S&H,
> plus 8.25% tax for California purchasers."
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
>
>
> > Most of the time that would be the best idea, however this is for a
> special
> > purpose. However I will be needing some high voltage contactors in the
> > future, who has the Czonkas for that cheap? Thanks David Chapman.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: Beefing up contactors
> >
> >
> > > Just out of curiosity, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper just to buy
a
> > > contactor rated for high voltage DC?
> > >
> > > After all the Czonka III is only about $80 or so.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2004-04-13 at 02:54, David Chapman wrote:
> > > > Thanks Mark and Lee,
> > > > Appreciate all the backround tech and suggestions. One last question
> on
> > this
> > > > tho, what do you think is the best mechanical solid state insulator
if
> > > > brittleness is not an issue? Glass? That was my best guess. Regards,
> > David
> > > > Chapman.
> > > --
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> > > capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> > > safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, you going about this all wrong.
You don't need to power all of the LM3916s from the same power source.
They can draw their power from the battery that they are monitoring,
i.e.the can measure their on power source.
The only requirement is that the source they are measuring stays within
their power requirements (3-25V). Well, that and you keep all the
wiring and circuit boards physically isolated so you don't get any
shorts.
If you expect the battery they are monitoring to drop below 3V, use them
to measure pairs of batteries instead of individual ones. This has the
benefit of reducing the number of displays from 50 to 25. monitoring 50
bar graph display might be a bit distracting while trying to drive
anyway.
On Wed, 2004-04-14 at 13:18, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Right, that is the key. Otherwise one would have an interesting 300 volt
> plasma fire when it was all engaged.
>
> All however is not lost: One could use an optoisolator attached to the
> battery with the (they use micro solar cells?) attached to this thing.
> The question is are optoisolators linear circuits, and do people make 12
> volt ones that can be installed in quantity?
>
> Chris
>
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Christopher Zach wrote:
> >
> >>Anyone ever used one of these? Can they handle isolation when reading
> >>multiple batteries in series?
> >
> >
> > No, the inputs and outputs are not isolated.
> >
> > Note that the absolute maximum supply voltage is 25v. Thus the most it
> > could be connected to is a single 12v battery (which can get up to 16v
> > on occasion).
> >
> > It only measures a single voltage, and converts it into a 1-10 LED bar
> > graph. Thus, you would need a separate LM3916 for every battery, and all
> > the wires between them must be isolated.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dual motors can take advantage of the series/parallel feature on the newer
Zilla controllers. This is a HUGE advantage. The KillaCycle uses twin 6.7
inch motors with a Zilla 2000. The behavior is like a Lenco two-speed, but
without the weight, complication, or the rotational inertia. Over 800
ft-lbs of total motor torque coming out of the hole.
When you take in to account that the motors spin much slower throughout
the run, and you are not adding any rotational inertia of transmission, the
series/parallel set-up gets much lower ETs than a tranny or single-speed
could ever hope for. It sucks up a lot of HP to spin up all those rotating
parts.
When I modeled the bike in the computer, it became obvious that a
transmission was the wrong path to take. A single speed is slightly better
than a transmission if you have a large enough controller (or a by-pass
contactor.) Series/parallel wins hands down.
Did I mention that the smaller diameter motors have the advantage of lower
rotational inertia?
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: acid_lead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: bobrice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(ZAP crack LONG)More Stuff
> BOB - Was this a Freudian slip or a genius play on words? You're
> equally capable of both which is why I love ya;
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip]
> Didn't Ford spend big bux testing and cretifing Thinks for the US
> Roads?
> [snip]
> > My two Mil worth
> >
> > Bob
>
> cretifying - could be a word, tho if I were a real Cretin I might
> think there must be a better way to say it.
Hi Lead Acid;
Gee! Thanks, blush! It sorta slipped out. I love to twist and bash the
English language, my native tongue. Glad to see that it brings pleasure to
other guyz.I invent words as needed, as their arent enough to cover all of
life.Can't spel worth a hoot, so fake it. As a two fingured typist, but at
least ya can read it. My handwriting is so bad I can't even read it, myself.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought the pickup truck with 156 volts. it needs a decent DC/DC
converter. currently has a few vicor modules in parallel with only
about 6 amps output total and a small 12V car battery.
the reading I've done shows
todd - doesn't hold up well, esp. if it gets wet
sevcon - heavy duty, but expensive
curtis - doesn't go high enough for my 156 volts
DCP - used one on ebay, but I can't find any listing for it at their
website - is it no longer made by them?
DC into an AC to 12VDC was mentioned by someone, too, how do you know
if a product can take the DC directly?
any current consensus on a reliable, reasonably priced dc/dc converter
to go from 144-156 vdc to 13? probably need 30 amps?
Is it possible to take 4 of the 36-48 volt to 12 volt modules they sell
surplus and connect them across 3-4 batteries at a time, paralleling
the 12 volt outputs together? I can't tell if these modules need to
have a common ground to the 12 volts, where obviously this idea
wouldn't work. what do you guys think?
or, once I figure how much night driving we do, the cheapest may still
be to charge the auxiliary battery separately when I charge the main
pack?
elaine
'76 citicar and, now, a '87 mitsubishi/dodge converted pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked at some when at GE-EV designing a battery charger with Trojan. We
found that they had no effect and Jim Drizos who worked for Trojan said that
they didn't have any effect either. It didn't matter whether the battery was
pulsated, got direct DC or you did it while standing on your head:-) the end
result was the same 110% charge. Better off giving your extra money to a
charity than flushing it down the toilet on these things.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:23 PM
Subject: RE: desulfator circuits?
> Elaine-
> I don't see the desulfator circuits as snake oil or a miracle.
> I also don't see the approach as bad science or voodoo, despite the lack
of
> detailed supporting theory.
> Nor can I say that I'm personally convinced that the common circuits work
or
> don't work.
> I have built one, but so far it isn't producing its HF pulses without
> overheating its FET too quickly, so my personal experience is nil.
>
> Nevertheless, unlike the earlier response you received, I'm not going to
> bash the circuits, the vendors, the technology or the lack of hard
science.
>
> Instead, I'll revert to common sense.
> It seems to me that the concept of delivering high energy pulses into a
> sulfated battery to try to help electromechanically or
electro-acoustically
> vibrate or crack loose resistant sulfate deposits is nothing less than a
> common sense theory with practical devices deployed for decades in jewelry
> and denture cleaning and other areas.
> Maybe, as Lee Hart opines, the theory lacks a credible scientific basis,
but
> far be it from this engineer to pre-emptively shoot it down when it has
been
> demonstrated that acoustic and mechanical vibration can break debris free.
>
> Now, if you want to judge for yourself and keep your mind open while being
> able to stay away from the profiteer angle alluded to, then I'd suggest
> starting with the Desulfator groups online:
> http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm
> http://pub36.ezboard.com/fleadacidbatterydesulfationfrm1
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/desulfator/
>
> Next, I'd suggest reading the original article in Home Power Magazine
> Issue#77 which started the big interest in electronic desulfation:
> http://www.homepower.com/files/desulfator.pdf
> Most everything and all the circuits people have tinkered with have
spawned
> from this simple HF flyback oscillator circuit.
>
> Hopefully this sheds some light for those who wish to explore these
> desulfators themselves.
>
> Incidentally, Lee Hart is right: batteries which are treated correctly
don't
> require any magic to keep them healthy.
> Unfortunately, we have all known instances where batteries have been
abused.
> Often, we are the abusers. If we limit ourselves only to the conventional
> solutions to reviving poorly treated batteries, we may be doing a serious
> disservice to our pocketbooks, let alone the environment. We should ALL
be
> keenly interested in not recycling batteries which have been abused if
> there's even a remote chance in battery hell of recovering badly sulfated
> batteries through EDTA and/or electronic desulfation concoctions.
>
> Remember: The proof is in the pudding. Noone on this list could prove
> scientifically that the Evercel NiZn batteries would last the spec'd
number
> of cycles OR that they'd live up to the claims of being minimally affected
> by relatively low temperatures. RATHER, it's with the real world testing
of
> various EV enthusiasts and the diligence and generosity of Joe Smalley and
> Rich Rudman in their willingness to do life testing on these that we are
> gaining knowledge and confidence in them. Still, noone on this list will
> likely be able to give you a scientific explanation for why these
batteries
> might be OK with low temperatures.
> Neither can anyone on this list explain how the Lithium battery chemistry
> reaction directly relates to how much charging current vs charging
> temperature. It's with actual testing that we find operational limits
that
> we then confidently state that from experience certain batteries with a
> general chemistry seem to be able to be reliably charged and do not suffer
> from cycle life limitations.
>
> My point is that we regularly accept things that work despite a full
> understanding of why they work. We carefully test, verify and observe the
> results, or go with the results and assessment of those we do trust.
> Indeed, it may be true that such careful testing and reporting has not yet
> been done for electronic desulfators....then again, maybe it has. I
believe
> it deserves a fresh look and assessment.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, OR.
>
--- End Message ---
