EV Digest 3903
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: TS Chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Power wheels breakdown
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: TS Chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: HYBRID EV CONTROLLER THAT IS EDUCATIONAL
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power wheels breakdown
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) FW: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Ford Ranger Adapter Plate Dimensions?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Shifting smooth again, but for how long?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FW: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by Steve Downing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: ruminitions on energy
by "Reinhard, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re:EVDL poll where do you live?
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by "Jim Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Avcon Adapter
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Treadmill motor for lawn tractor?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: TS Chargers
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) power steering pump /motor
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Power wheels breakdown
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: use of electric forklift motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Spain says solar power is mandatory
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: ruminitions on energy
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: TS Chargers
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Zivan K2 bites the dust
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Treadmill motor for lawn tractor?
by Tom Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Peugeot Scoot'elec/Saft Ni-cad failure
by Matt Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30) RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
31) Re: Spain says solar power is mandatory
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) EVDL poll where do you live
by "James A. Eckman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) RE: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
> Hello Lee,
> Could you please give us news about your TS cells and discharge/charge
> experience? Seems after big "blabla" nobody talk about TS cells health
> anymore...
I only bought four Thundersky TS-LP90A cells, as part of a group
purchase that Victor Tikhonov arranged. I wanted to do some testing, to
see whether they would be suitable for an EV.
As it turned out, the cells we got were old stock, seconds, or otherwise
sub par. For example, mine were rated 90ah, but none delivered over
70ah. They were not well matched, so there would be problems if they
were simply used in series with some small balancing current. Their
internal resistance was so high that they overheated at anything over
about 30 amps. Thus, I was not able to use them in my EV; not even as an
accessory battery.
I know that Victor has returned a number of the cells he got, and I
think Thundersky replaced them under warranty. I really should do the
same with these if possible, since I haven't found any use for them as
is.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Drat. This morning the kids went to start the Power Wheels Jeep and
nothing worked. Very annoying; they were left high and dry, so to speak.
I took it apart this evening for review. As I suspected, the main
throttle switch was not making contact. Despite the fact that it's a
sealed switch I cracked it open anyway.
It looks like the contacts pitted and opened up. I sanded them down and
straightened them up, however I think the switch is not going to hold up
under the kids driving.
Fortunately I have a spare 12 volt starter solenoid from a tractor. My
plan now is to have the solenoid be in series with the throttle switch
and battery, and let the solenoid switch power back to the main motor
circuit. That way the foot pedal switch will be closing a low-current
loop and should last pretty much forever and a day.
Question: Should I put a MOV across the switch anyway to act as a spark
snubber? Will a MOV do that (act as a spark supressor) when placed
across any switch?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> Interesting. I have been concerned that the battery pack would burst
> into flame if not charged "properly". This is not an issue if you do a
> constant voltage charge?
This only works because I have a separate 4.2v charger per cell.
Therefore, no cell ever goes over 4.2v. At this voltage, the current
falls off to next to nothing at full charge. I normally shut off the
charger when it gets under 100ma per cell.
If you connect N cells in series and try to use a single N x 4.2v
constant-voltage power supply, you wind up with some cells at a higher
voltage, and some at a lower voltage. This is what causes trouble. The
high voltage cells get damaged, and can even go into a dramatic
self-destruction mode.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Tweed wrote:
1) Is there anyone on the list that knows about David Arthurs Pulser ev
controller ?
2) If so why did he not vari the speed of the pulser drive motor which is
low current
to achieve the rate of pulse for the high current 4 brush switch motor
(seems better idea than
having low and high switches)?
This hybrid Opel GT is a nice beginner plan that can be adapted for other
vehicles.
FOR $25.00 Plan # 1764 from Mother Earth News IS A GREAT BUY FOR BEGINNERS
AND POOR FOLK ALIKE ........AND IT IS EDUCATIONAL
Jeff, this one comes up on the EVDL every year or so. As far as I am
concerned, it didn't work when they first offered the plans, and it still
doesn't work. For those not familiar with the setup, they billed it as the
"75 MPG Hybrid Electric Car". The conversion was based on an early 70's
Opel GT. It used an aircraft starter-generator as a drive motor, four
standard car starting batteries for battery pack, and charged this with a
5 hp Briggs and Stratton engine belt driving a 24 Volt 200 Amp aircraft
generator. It and the plans were created by a fellow in Arkansas I
believe. The magazine released plans before they built and tested their
own copy. When they did build their own they ran into a few problems. As
I recall, a few issues were:
1. The "pulser" controller. This was really the brushes and commutator
from a Lucas starter motor, spun by a variable speed fan motor controlled
by the throttle. Each comm bar was simply wired to the opposite bar. The
idea was to build a mechanical version of a pulse width modulated
controller. If you think about it, you can see the problem. Slow fan
motor long slow pulses. Fast fan motor short fast pulses. I can't see how
this means any real change. In addition, starter motor brushes and comms
aren't up to the long period high current demands of an EV. When TMEN
build their own version of the car, they couldn't get the pulser to work,
so they switched to a series/parallel contactor control circuit instead.
2. Batteries. In the plans the car is shown powered by four 12 volt
starting batteries wired in series. This is completely inadequate for EV
use. TMEN crew instead went with a string of eight 6 volt golf cart
batteries. This proved more effective though much heavier.
3. The generator. The original plans show a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton
engine driving a 24 volt 200 amp generator to charge the 48 volt battery
pack. While a 5 hp generator would certainly extend the range of an EV,
this setup seems incapable of supplying 100% of the power needed as
suggested in the plans. With a more reasonable generator setup that 5 hp
engine might have supplied a few Amps at 48 Volts, but not nearly enough to
hold even the little Opel at 60 mph. When the TMEN crew built their own
vehicle, they used a much larger Lombardini Diesel engine. About 10 HP if
I recall. They got 83 mpg at 45 mph until the batteries discharged, about
35 miles I think. Then it dropped to something like 40 mpg. Top speed
with charged batteries was only 45 mph.
I bought a copy of the plans when the first came out, and actually started
converting a '71 Renault R10. I was still in high school and never could
afford to finish it. It did get me started into the electric car
world. The more I read, the less interested I was in dragging the little
ICE engine along. Now I find myself considering returning to that very
thought. Inspired by Alain St-Yves'range extending generator projects,
(http://www.rocler.qc.ca/levehiculevert/) I have been floating ideas to
modify both my Civic EV and my Force for plug-in hybrid operation. Even
with a much larger 13 hp Honda engine I don't expect anything like enough
power to supply 100% of the current needed to drive even the thrifty Force
at highway speeds. At best I might extend the range to something like 80
miles from its current 40 miles at low speed, and maybe give it a 50 mile
range at 65 mph. I think it would have the effect of making the EV a
no-brainer vehicle for around town. Use the EV for every trip and if the
charge gets low, just fire up the generator.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
better use a transient voltage suppressor diode
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Power wheels breakdown
> Drat. This morning the kids went to start the Power Wheels Jeep and
> nothing worked. Very annoying; they were left high and dry, so to speak.
>
> I took it apart this evening for review. As I suspected, the main
> throttle switch was not making contact. Despite the fact that it's a
> sealed switch I cracked it open anyway.
>
> It looks like the contacts pitted and opened up. I sanded them down and
> straightened them up, however I think the switch is not going to hold up
> under the kids driving.
>
> Fortunately I have a spare 12 volt starter solenoid from a tractor. My
> plan now is to have the solenoid be in series with the throttle switch
> and battery, and let the solenoid switch power back to the main motor
> circuit. That way the foot pedal switch will be closing a low-current
> loop and should last pretty much forever and a day.
>
> Question: Should I put a MOV across the switch anyway to act as a spark
> snubber? Will a MOV do that (act as a spark supressor) when placed
> across any switch?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
vail, colorado. land of many hills.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 00:06, Dragan Stancevic wrote:
> Hi-
>
> does anyone have dimesions for a late 90's 4 cylinder Ford Ranger adapter
> plate? I'll be measuring the clutch bell this weekend and I was wondering if
> anyone has already done it, could save me a lot of trouble.
I need to check my files, but I have the measurements for a 99 Ranger 4
cylinder somewhere.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it's time to at least take a look at the disk, and if you're going
to do all that work, you might as well replace it while you've got
everything apart. Hopefully the disk hasn't gone metal-to-metal with
the pressure plate or flywheel - that would necessitate replacement or
machining of those parts: more work and/or more money. I'd check it
asap. Don't forget to install a new throwout bearing.
Patrick Maston
1981 Jet Electrica
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/8/04 4:23:55 PM >>>
My conclusion is that the friction plate has worn quite a bit and may
be
glazed. This might explain the continued shuddering from a standing
start when using the clutch.
If I had to add fluid to the clutch to get it to fully disengage again,
does this mean that it's time to replace the friction disk?
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 19:37, August Johnson wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> John's figures are about right for what I saw while playing with the
> pump on 12V also. In the MR2, the pumps speed was varied according to
> the vehicle speed, amount the steering wheel was being turned, etc. I'm
> guessing that for a lighter vehicle, it wouldn't need as much boost. I
> think I read somewhere that in the MR2, the pump rarely was running on
> more than 9 volts.
>
I wonder where the power electronics were located in the car. The three
small wires on the MR2 pump appear to be for sensing the load. If the
system really was variable there must be an electronics module somewhere
else in the car. Since one of the challenges of the MR2 pump is
switching the large currents it would be interesting for someone to look
over the wiring diagrams and see if it would be possible to use the
whole system.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Newport, NC. Coastal dweller in the Great state of
North Carolina, 4 EVs, 98 Ranger, 2 Solectria E10s,
and Ford ETX II (ETX II not running at present) Other
than the local High School, am unaware of any other
evs in the area.
Chimer Clark
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christchurch, New Zealand 43.5deg. South of the Equator
Regards Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I wonder where the power electronics were located in the car. The
three
>small wires on the MR2 pump appear to be for sensing the load. If the
>system really was variable there must be an electronics module
somewhere
>else in the car. Since one of the challenges of the MR2 pump is
>switching the large currents it would be interesting for someone to
look
>over the wiring diagrams and see if it would be possible to use the
>whole system.>
>
>
>Mark Farver
I don't have the diagrams but whoever buys my pump will also get the
electronics modules. I don't know what's inside them, I've never looked.
August
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
why aren't we driving steam cars run on gas?
For the same reason they stopped making them.
Nobody wanted to wait 20 minutes before you could to drive the car.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Laurel, Maryland. Between DC and Baltimore
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
National Electric Drag Racing Association
http://www.nedra.com
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington, DC
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marshfield Missouri 20 miles east of
Springfield MO
jim lockwood
144 volt 85 Toyota in construction
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Is it possible to wire up a homemade Avcon adapter or is the EAA Avcon a
good deal. The problem is the waiting period of 6 weeks. Anybody have a
unit used they want to part with. Lawrence Rhodes.......>>
They are made by Meltric Corp. (meltric.com) - email them and just say you want
an Avcon female connector (or was it inlet?) with the "Ford emulator" (pilot
signal) and you'll have what you need to charge at any Avcon box. Cost ~$160
delivered a couple years ago.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I had heard about using treadmill motors <snip>
Yes, they can be used as EV motors. There are some precautions, though.
First, notice the small size for a 1.75hp motor. That's because they are
intermittent duty motors -- intended to run only a short time at full
power. You won't be able to get 1.75hp out of it for long before it
overheats.
>CLASS INSULATION: F
I think this is 155 deg.C max temperature. This is how hot the hottest
spot inside the motor can get before the insulation fails.
Class H (180 deg.F) is more common for traction motors.
> Hopefully I could use this for both mowing and snowblowing.
> Am I asking too much from this motor?
Yes, I think you are. I don't think it will have enough power.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, that makes sense.
I wonder how closely a pack of three batteries would stay in sync, and
if they fell out if it would be normal drift or catastrophic failure in
one of the cells. With the DR202 packs they include a thermal breaker to
kill the pack if the temp in any of the cells gets too high. Question is
can this happen if one just charges the battery at 12.6 volts, etc.
I still have this dream of a small and light booster pack for the Prizm.
Something like 20 DR202 batteries in series for a quick 6ah of power. Of
course one couldn't draw much more than 6-7 amps from the pack anyway so
the point is moot. Still, one can dream a bit. Better plan is to just
find a Prius pack or two from some wrecks.
Chris
Lee Hart wrote:
Christopher Zach wrote:
Interesting. I have been concerned that the battery pack would burst
into flame if not charged "properly". This is not an issue if you do a
constant voltage charge?
This only works because I have a separate 4.2v charger per cell.
Therefore, no cell ever goes over 4.2v. At this voltage, the current
falls off to next to nothing at full charge. I normally shut off the
charger when it gets under 100ma per cell.
If you connect N cells in series and try to use a single N x 4.2v
constant-voltage power supply, you wind up with some cells at a higher
voltage, and some at a lower voltage. This is what causes trouble. The
high voltage cells get damaged, and can even go into a dramatic
self-destruction mode.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just found the spec. on the motor I was using and its not as big as I had
though , 1/2 hp and the rpm is 9800 12lbs so I may be wrong about the treed
mill motor being to small, . I'm seeing more good reasons to power the ps
pump form the traction motor , the load for it will also slow down the big
motor when shifting , I won't have to come up with power to power it . I did
a little forward and back backward diving with 12v hooked to the big motor
and the ps pump don't have to turn fast to work. Pushing in on the clutch
and letting it spin for turning wheels when not moving. Also its much
quieter the another motor running full speed ,
But as I'm doing this for somebody else , it will in the end be up to them ,
If it was me , I;d go with the simple setup .
Steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> Question: Should I put an MOV across the switch anyway to act as
> a spark snubber? Will an MOV do that (act as a spark supressor)
> when placed across any switch?
Generally, yes. An MOV works like a cheap, soft high-power zener diode.
Since you are using it at 12v, you'll have to find an unusually low
voltage MOV. They are hard to find below about 33v.
But, the real problem in the Powerwheels is not the spark when the
switch opens; it is the peak motor starting current. Those PM motors
look almost like a short circuit when starting. The main thing limiting
the peak current is the wimpy gauge wiring.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience with the use of electric series
> wound forklift motors to power an EV?
Yes, they work quite well. Forklift motors are the opposite extreme from
the treadmill motors just mentioned. In forklifts, weight is a virtue
(they keep it from tipping over with a heavy load on the forks). So the
motors, and everything else are heavily built.
The other thing is that they expect extreme life. It's not unusual for a
fork lift to be run 8 hours a day, every day, for many decades. That
works out to millions of miles if run in a car.
Fork lifts run quite slowly, so it's an advantage to wind the motor so
it natually runs as slow as possible. This can be an advantage in an EV
conversion, too, since ICEs also run at low speeds.
So... yes you can use a forklift motor in an EV. They are bigger and
heavier than the typical Advanced DC motor, but also more rugged and
reliable. You can run them at 2 or even 3 times rated voltage before you
shorten their life enough to matter (you don't need your EV's motor to
last a million miles; 100,000 is plenty). Raising the voltage also
increases their speed, so you can get them up to the kind of speeds that
we expect in an ICE for maximum hill-climbing or passing power.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just heard it on BBC world, logging the story via my sidekick....
Spain says that solar panels will soon be MANDATORY for ALL new
construction and even all renovations. I didn't get the exact date this
will kick in, but it sounded like it was some time next year.
I think this will obviously mean lots of business for solar panel
builders, but also I think this is good news for the battery EV in
Spain. I think that by generating power on site, consumers in Spain will
think more about their energy choices and I think that BEVs are an
attractive candidate for people who think about such things.
Consumers will be making their own fuel, and as that fuel is electric, I
think that electric transportation products should do well in such an
environment.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On display at the Henry Ford museum is a 1924 model Doble steamer.
Specifications include cold start to full steam in 90 seconds, 100 mph top
speed, easy cruise at 70 mph. The engine is a 4 cylinder, double acting
318 cu inch unit producing 125 hp at 1300 RPM. Weight is 4100 pounds.
Here's the kicker: $9750 in 1924 dollars. According to the plaque on the
car, the company was the victim of crooked stock speculators and was
finally finished off by the crash of '29.
That car pretty much puts the lie to the old wives' tale that a steamer
takes forever to start.
The real reason we're not all driving steam engines today is, as always,
cost and convenience. Cost of making the thing and cost of operation. A
reciprocating steam engine is flexible and throttable but not very
efficient. A turbine is efficient but only at one carefully tuned
operating point. Witness the multiple stages of reheats and other
optimizations necessary to make a steam power plant decently efficient.
Without doing any math, I doubt that a 150 hp class car could support a
large enough condenser to run the steam closed loop. More likely a total
loss system which requires "refueling" both the fuel and the water.
Maintaining the water quality necessary for a high temperature boiler,
particularly a once-thru design would be problematic. Just look how hard
it is to get people to not add tap water to their batteries!
Again, without doing any math, I imagine a modern IC engine is at least as
efficient, if not more so than whatever kind of steam engine could be
fitted to a car's envelope.
Then there is the issue of keeping the water from freezing. Difficult
and/or expensive thing to do for a car that can't be garaged. Alternative
working fluids could be considered but anything more aggressive than water
would stir up some hornet's nest of chemophobes or another.
I recall that back in the late 60s - early 70s timeframe the government
did some development work on the mercury cycle for automotive use. there
was also a lot of work done on using mercury as a nuclear reactor coolant.
The cycle looked very promising - very high temperatures and thus
efficiency is possible at low pressures - but of course, the chemophobe
squalling killed that one.
Compare the hassles of a steam engine with the modern day IC engine'd car.
Turn the switch and go. Let someone change the oil and filters every so
often. Other than that, for most people the car is a transportation
appliance that requires no other maintenance or thought.
John
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:31:52 -0800 , "Reinhard, Rick"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
>
> why aren't we driving steam cars run on gas?
>
>For the same reason they stopped making them.
>Nobody wanted to wait 20 minutes before you could to drive the car.
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:26 AM -0600 11-9-04, Mark Farver wrote:
Since one of the challenges of the MR2 pump is
switching the large currents it would be interesting for someone to look
over the wiring diagrams and see if it would be possible to use the
whole system.
If I end up winning the auction, I plan to do just that.
My local Toyota dealer has been helpful in getting diagrams for me in
the past. Maybe they will help again.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a TS pack consisting of 26 Cells of 200 amp-hour and 26 cells 100
Amp-hour series paralleled for the equivalent of 26 300 Amp-Hr cells in
series (93V nominal). I am using 2 Traco 500W switching power supplies
with the outputs connected in series for charging . I bought a number of
these TSL480-155PX units on eBay for eventual use in making chargers that
would work from either 120VAC or 240VAC. They have automatic 120V/240V
switching inputs and 54.5V, adjustable, 9A nominal, output each. They are
adjusted for a total of about 110VDC. They sit in current limit (constant
current) very happily until the voltage comes up and the current starts to
taper off (constant voltage).
Victor's earlier comments about not needing to charge fast at high current
apply to me also, and this low current rate should be quite easy on the
cells. Mine, bought in 3 lots including one through Victor, were all good
quality and are continuing to work well.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:35 PM
Subject: TS Chargers
I know that Victor uses a Brusa to charge his series string of ThunderSky
batteries. What chargers do others of you in the group use to charge your
string of ThunderSky batteries? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try replacing the Dead and fried MOVs on the input circuits. They over heat,
and they handle precharge issues as well as main current limits. The are
sized for 415 volt work three phase, and seriously over heat doing 230 high
current and the input line ripple spanks them over time. I have seen them
unsolder and vaporize the FR4 pcb away until they open up the curcuit.
Killing the charger. We had one that just needed to be jumpered across, But
beware if you jumper and don't replace, that the inrush on power up will
pop breakers and errode the breaker contact tips.
Better yet, get the right sized MOVs that will work for the US voltages.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: Zivan K2 bites the dust
> When the K2 decided to go into chatter mode during bulk phase last week,
> I figured it wasn't going to be too long before it died completly. This
> weekend I plugged it in to do a finish charge and ZAP, bad smells and no
> power.
>
> Now I'm using the PFC50 for all of my charging. Like Rich pointed out,
> it is possible to do what the batteries require, it just takes a little
> hand holding. Now I am without an onboard charger also. Not that
> having one has ever been an advantage since Portland has very few public
> charging locations.
>
> I sent email off to ZAPI USA to find out where the repair depot is
> nowdays. I can't find Greg McCrea or Gary Flo on the web anymore. The
> Zapi web page still lists Greg as the repair guy. I'm hoping that I can
> get my K2 fixed, but it doesn't look good so far.
>
> If I can't get it fixed, I'd like to find a set of schematics. I can
> always attempt to fix it myself. Better yet would be to find a used one
> that someone would be willing to part with. I'm looking for leads if
> any of you have either schematics, a contact for a repair depot, or a K2
> that is gather dust that has high voltage output (220vdc max) 220vac
> input, and knows the IUIa algorithm.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:33:13 -0800 (PST), Dave Cover did scribe:
>�Since my lawn tractor has a hydrostatic drive and the implements
>�are driven off the same pulley, I was thinking I could replace the
>�ICE with the electric motor and use it the same way. Set the motor
>�to run at a certain RPM and drive. Hopefully I could use this for
>�both mowing and snowblowing. Am I asking too much from this motor?
I'm not totally versed on all the numbers, but can give you some thoughts from
using my Elec-Trak. I suspect some of the others may be able to jump in with
more details and better ideas.
I'm thinking you'd want something larger. The Elec-Trak E20 has a main
traction motor and separate auxiliary motors for the mower. Together they pull
somewhere around 50-75 amps at 36v nominal when mowing on relatively flat
ground so 1.8 to 2.7 KW. More if you're going up hill; 100+ amps (3.6 KW). I
don't have any data on the snowthrower, maybe some of the other ET guys do. I
do know that it has a quite large motor on it and under load quickly brings the
total current draw quite high (150-200+amps I'm guessing). How much you'd need
for snow depends on the size of the snowthrower (ET's is 42 inches), the
mechanical efficiency and the amount and amount and type of snow you're
handling.
To make matters worse, the ET is direct drive while you're looking at
hydrostatic. The hydrostatic drives are not that efficient (I think I've heard
numbers around 75%). Given that, I'd guess you'd want to be in the 4-5KW range
or more for mowing and potentially much more for snowthrowing. But, as they
say, I may be wrong.
How big is the ICE engine in the tractor? A rule of thumb is to take the ICE
HP by 4 and get a rough idea of the electrical HP you'd need. But that is only
a very crude guide.
As for range, my E20 with 6 T105s can mow for 2+ hours easily enough (I get
tired of mowing before it does). No way the snowthrowing would go on that
long. Some of the ET folks use auxiliary battery packs to extend the time with
the snow.
- Tom Coate
93 Escort 120VDC
Elec-Trak E20 36VDC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have suffered the first major problem with my 1999 Peugeot Scoot'elec
after 5 years and 24,000 km (15,000 miles) - 1 of the 3 Saft STM5-100MR
Ni-cad "monoblocks" has failed, quite rapidly in just a couple of weeks.
For about a month (until 2 weeks ago) I'd been using it for a once-a-week
commute to a eco-house building course about 15 or 16 miles away - a longer
journey than it has been used to getting lately, though well within it's
capabilities, even after 5 years and 15,000 miles of near daily use. I
could still comfortably get over 22 miles on a run.
The Saft ni-cads have always exhibited an annoying tendency to give reduced
top speed, hill climbing ability and acceleration if they haven't been
charged within the last day (lower specific power) so I would sometimes have
to charge them (if only for 15 minutes or so) before setting out. The
10%-ish margin meant the difference for keeping up with traffic around town.
The performance was great even right down to a low SOC but ONLY if it had
been charged recently.
A couple of weeks ago this quirk started to worsen and demanded having been
on charge within the last couple of hours. Then later, no matter how
recently it had charged, it was a liability to ride. It would struggle to
reach 35-40 km/h and the small climb over the last few hundred metres to my
house was very laboured and kept resulting in it cutting out and flashing
the fault lamp on the dash, requiring ignition off-on and re-entry of the
immobiliser code.
A few days ago I limped home with it complaining about every attempt to
accelerate - it would drop out the contactor and need resetting, though
annoyingly the fault memory recorded "no faults". Great help that wasn't!
I set about tracing the source today - it didn't take long. I whipped off
the body panels and put a voltmeter across each of the 3 monoblocks at a
supposed 100% SOC - they read 6.64V, 6.53V and 3.88V. Spot the weak one!
When I tried this a few weeks ago, when I first started noticing the
problem, it showed no clear sign of any disparity.
I 'started' the scooter to see how they faired under load... spinning the
motor on the stand the two healthy(ier) monoblocks dipped by about 0.1V each
but bounced back immediately after removing the load. The 3.88V dipped to
1.96V - ouch! I also heard a faint fizzing sound - the centre cell in the
'block was gassing!
I may or may not have fallen foul of Saft's quality problems that have lead
to failures in other pre-1999 EVs so I'm having to replace one of the
monoblocks which I'm not too unhappy about. They exceeded the 4-year,
55,000 discharged Ah warranty by a year and 5,000 Ah and the scooter has
been EXCEPTIONALLY cheap transport for 15,000 miles which would have cost
GBP1,700 (US$2,500) in fuel in a car. I was expecting about 6 or 7 years
but not too unhappy so long as the others don't go south too ;-)
The motor still runs fine, brakes are lasting well, bodywork looks great
(thanks Zym�l) despite being hit by a truck at 30mph (well, the top case
anyway) and has only cost me GBP125 for tyres, 70 for electricity, 20 for a
main fuse (freak failure), a tenner for a new drivebelt (as per schedule)
and a disproportionate amount for distilled water (from Peugeot just to give
me some quality assurance!)
Here's to another 5 years and reaching 50,000km!
Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tore apart my MR2 pump to see what the wires were for. The red simply
connects to the + side of the large red wire (use an ohmmeter). The other two
wires are attached to a small switch connected to the brushes. This is normally
open, until the brushes wear out, then the contacts close.
I also spoke with Randy at CANEV about these pumps. He has sold quite a few of
them. He mentioned they take quite a bit of power at full load/startup, maybe
around 70A/12V, but settle down to about 7A (I think) during normal driving.
Don
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, and to the loser of the auction: Call up MazToy Recyclers in Portland,
Oregon, or use car-parts.com. I bought mine for $60USD - great condition.
Don
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just hunted down the story....
Jose Montilla, the Industry Minister in Spain made the announcement that
beginning next year (less than two months from now), ALL new
construction and even ALL renovations MUST include and install solar
panels in the design.
The point is to take advantage of Spain's sunshine to save fuel costs
and improve the environment. The Spanish Government is seeking a tenfold
increase in the total area of solar panels in use in Spain by the year
2010 from the present total of 581,000 sq meters.
They are not only making the mandate, but are backing it up with
government subsidies to ease the financial costs of the new measure.
As Spain is currently one of the world's biggest manufacturers of solar
panels, this new mandate will expand Spain's "green" manufacturing base
as well.
As Rod pointed out, it is very nice to see that SOMEONE out there gets
it. Let's hope that these type of ideas are infectious and that this is
the start of a major trend.
Kudos to Spain for their leadership on this issue!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Akron Ohio -where the rubber used to meet the road.
Jim Eckman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I did use an MR2 power steering pump in my Jeep. As Chris said, I've
found that it works well. Steering is just as good if not better than it
was with the old mechanical pump, despite the fact that the Jeep is
close to 1,000 lbs. heavier now.
> The only downside is the whine; the pump will almost certainly be
> the loudest thing in a typical EV, worse than the vacuum pump.
Well, the P/S pump is noisy, but I think my Gast vacuum pump is still
noisier. The power steering pump makes a higher pitch whine/whir sound
while the vacuum pump makes a lower rumble type sound. Attempts to make
both units quieter by using rubber mounts of some sort is still on my
to-do list.
The P/S pump appears to use 25 or so amps with the wheel straight
forward and pulls a lot of power (50-75 amps) near the stops. I'm using
a 75-amp Bosch power relay (Part# 0 332 002 156) with it. This relay has
built in diodes and so far it has worked fine.
A DC/DC (30A output) and an Everstart U1 battery powers my 12 volt
system, and the voltage does sag into the 10 volt range if I have the
wheel turned a lot or have many accessories on. I'm still trying to
decide how I want to get more power into the 12-volt system so it'll
stop "browning out."
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
-------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 20:44, Christopher Robison wrote:
> A couple years back, Mark Farver put one of these pumps in a Ford
> Ranger, and more recently Nick Viera put one in his 4WD Cherokee. In
> both cases, the pump was definitely up to the task; steering is very
> easy. The only downside is the whine; the pump will almost certainly be
> the loudest thing in a typical EV, worse than the vacuum pump.
>
> FWIW, I'll be putting this one in an Isuzu Hombre, unless you outbid me,
> Steve :o) (No worries if that happens; these things pop up at
> junkyards from time to time.)
>
> Any thoughts on how one might make a pump like this "demand-driven"?
> Like, with a torque sensor or something? Does the MR2 actually do this?
>
> --chris
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 19:37, August Johnson wrote:
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > John's figures are about right for what I saw while playing with the
> > pump on 12V also. In the MR2, the pumps speed was varied according to
> > the vehicle speed, amount the steering wheel was being turned, etc. I'm
> > guessing that for a lighter vehicle, it wouldn't need as much boost. I
> > think I read somewhere that in the MR2, the pump rarely was running on
> > more than 9 volts.
> >
> > August
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Steve Clunn
> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 7:31 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: / MR2 power steering pump / on ebay
> >
> > I've been working on the power steering for the nission 300zx all this
> > weekend , and am finding that its taking a lot more power than I had
> > though
> > when you trun the steering wheel . I picked a motor that I though was
> > rated
> > about 1 1/2 hp 32v I ( looked like a better pick that the tread mill
> > motor i
> > also have) started with 3 to 1 ratio , now a 5 to 1 and still when the
> > steering wheel is being trunned it slows the motor down to almost a stop
> > ,
> > I'm running it on 36v and am seeing 50 amp under load , so I'm looking
> > at
> > your e bay pump. any idea of the amps it needs to run on , at 12v this
> > could
> > be a lot .
> > Steve Clunn
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 7:22 PM
> > Subject: Selling Toyota MR2 power steering pump on ebay
> >
> >
> > > I'm selling the MR2 power steering pump that I bought a couple years
> > > ago. I bought it because I was going to build and EV, instead I bought
> > > Otmar's Sprint. It's listed as # 7933330981 on ebay.
> > >
> > > August Johnson
> > >
> >
--- End Message ---
