EV Digest 3941
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Spare Tires
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) sam's Stowaway, Exide, GNB?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LRR vs. traction
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: LRR vs. traction (was: RE: Impressive NiMH conversion on the
Web)
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Spare Tires
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: we have Chevrolet S-10EV's for sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) LRR vs. traction (was: RE: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) MagneChargers on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: sam's Stowaway, Exide, GNB?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Inertech-Johnson
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: sam's Stowaway, Exide, GNB?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: MagneChargers on eBay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: LRR vs. traction (was: RE: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: fuel gauge and clutchless shifting
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Interview with Dr. McReady re: electric cars, hybrids, and hydrogen
fuel cells
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Sealed PbA battery Options
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Reducing amps, voltage sag, cold drag. was Re: High current
draw from floodies,
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Gear Shopping
by David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Buckeye Bullett on National TV Sunday
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) sticky vs LRR
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Fwd: Re: Spare Tires (was Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: sticky vs LRR
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:37 AM
> Mike Chancey wrote:
> > Okay folks, how many actually care a spare tire on your EV?
>
> I don't. I have *never* carried a spare in any of my EVs, for nearly 30
> years now.
> Hi All;
I have carried a VW Spacesaver type spare in my Rabbit since the get-go.
Like if I have a flat on the way to work, I lose the daze pay. I HAVE to
show up, like BEFORE train time! so I like and am willing to have the extra
weight aboard. I killed one of my Nokians running over debris on the road.
INSTANT flat! I don't wanna weight for the Auto Club to show up, and hell,
if you USE the Auto club, they will dump you , if more than once, MAYBE
twice. There have been alota times I DON'T bring the spare, I save the Auto
club for REAL energencies. Car won't go, for one reason or another. Dead
battery, after a nuisense circuit breaker trip, at work, after using most of
it up before I got to work. OK plugerin, be nice an charged when I get back.
Wrong! Damn breaker had tripped before I had gone 5 minutes.
So if yur close to home, forgo the spare, but if you hafta go any
distance, better bring one.AND a jack, a cheepo and a lug wrench!
My two PSI worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was curious about Sam's $48 6V floodees that say Stowaway on the side (was
GNB brand) but now have Exide quick twist ganged cap. Does anyone know who
really makes these? Cycle Life compared to Trojan T-105 700 cycles? Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Here's the data, with some other cars added for comparison (view with
> fixed-width font):
>
> CAR BRAKING, 60-0, ft SKIDPAD, g SLALOM, mph
> EV1 149 0.71 57.2
> Ford Taurus SE 149 0.75 58.4
> Honda Accord EX V-6 137 0.76 58.3
> Subaru Legacy GT 136 0.78 60.2
> Volkswagen Jetta GLX 133 0.79 61.2
> Ford Focus ZTS 130 0.82 62.9
> Toyota Celica GT-S 130 0.86 63.6
> Mazda Miata LS 150 0.92 62.7
> Corvette hardtop 125 0.91 62.3
>
> These results are far from conclusive, but they support what you'd expect -
> that sporty cars use performance tires to great advantage, and LRR tires
> won't win you any autocrosses.
Yow! An EV1 beaten by a lowly Taurus?! That says something about the detriments
of LRR tires when a sports car can't keep up with a plain-vanilla sedan in the
slalom!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Rob Morden wrote:
I've just been doing some research on this to try to get a few more miles
out of my Horizon.
The site with some sensible recommendations - pdf file:
http://www.greenseal.org/recommendations/CGR_LowTireResistance.pdf
Wow, the Bridgestone B381 is very very low rolling resistance compared to
the others, and the traction isn't bad either. Tempting to switch to 14"
wheels.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have carried a VW Spacesaver type spare in my Rabbit since the get-go.
> Like if I have a flat on the way to work, I lose the daze pay. I HAVE to
> show up, like BEFORE train time! so I like and am willing to have the extra
> weight aboard. I killed one of my Nokians running over debris on the road.
> INSTANT flat! I don't wanna weight for the Auto Club to show up, and hell,
> if you USE the Auto club, they will dump you , if more than once, MAYBE
> twice. There have been alota times I DON'T bring the spare, I save the Auto
> club for REAL energencies. Car won't go, for one reason or another. Dead
> battery, after a nuisense circuit breaker trip, at work, after using most of
> it up before I got to work. OK plugerin, be nice an charged when I get back.
> Wrong! Damn breaker had tripped before I had gone 5 minutes.
>
> So if yur close to home, forgo the spare, but if you hafta go any
> distance, better bring one.AND a jack, a cheepo and a lug wrench!
>
> My two PSI worth
>
> Bob
A few years ago, Plasma Boy clued us EVers in to the benefits of AAA's Premium
service, which extends the tow range to 100 miles. I upgraded to it while
driving the Ranger EV, and have kept it since Ford took back the truck. You can
use it 3 times per year (per card holder), and I used it twice to bring home
used EV purchases (one without me even present)! I also get a discount on their
evaluation services, which I prefer to doing the mileage-based maintanence
schedule, as it is impartial and they tell you what does and does not need
fixing (but that's for the ICE cars - don't know how they'd do with a
conversion).
My three A's worth
Russell
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'd be psyched to get my hands on the NiMH version... IF it could handle
> the cold New England weather. However, what scarce information there is
> seemed to say that it couldn't... anyone know otherwise?
>
> I could deal if I had to take it off the road for a few extreme cold
> days, as long as no permanent damage was being done to the batteries.
The Ranger EV's NiMH pack liked winter much more than summer, usually >10%
better range. But we don't get below freezing very often, so no first-hand
experience at sub-zero. I remember something about the NiMH EV1's doing well in
the North East but badly in Arizona.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
chris_t wrote:
>From the EV point of view, however, there seems to be substantial
>performance lost to LRR tires. My question is this: How much do I
gain by
>using LRR tires? Has anyone used super sticky gumballs AND eco-freak
LRR
>tires on the same car under similar circumstances? What was the
difference
>in Wh/mi.?
*******************
There are some Prius owners on the Prius-owners website who have
switched from the OEM Goodyear Integrity to Michelin Hydroedge. They
report much better traction and mileage decreases of between 1.5 to 3
mpg from their original averages of about 48. This would be a 3-6%
increase in energy used, which is close to agreement with the Choose
Green Report @ up to 6%. The Hydroedge is not a super-sticky gumball,
so they would probably do even worse, especially if you do a lot of
cornering.
Patrick
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea 55 amphours with a 20 hour load of What amps??? 1.5 amps?
I do know that Optima dropped the rating back to 50 or 45 amphours with a
shorter time and a higher load.
The Yts were down rated and the Orbital XCD34s were rated 45 from the
start.
This just backs up the the notion that they are both rather identical in
Capacity.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
> IIRC the YTs were rated 55 AHr at a 20 HOUR load. Not a 20 amp load.
>
> Please check your numbers.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 10:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
>
>
> > To get 530 wHrs from a Yt would take 120 Deg F and a %100 DOD taken to
> less
> > than 10 volts(1.75 Vcell). And of course a very light load. The Yts
WHERE
> > rated at 55 amp hours at a 20 amp load, That's 660 watt hours, doing
> > trolling motor duty, not EV 500 amp quick start loads.
> > I expect that this 8.5Kwhr was a high point that this pack made with
lots
> of
> > effort by the driver to coax all the range and all the power from these
> > batteries.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry if this is a repeat, but I never saw my previous post. Anyone need 5 of
these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7936173374
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> I was curious about Sam's $48 6V floodees that say Stowaway on
> the side (was GNB brand) but now have Exide quick twist ganged cap.
> Does anyone know who really makes these? Cycle Life compared to
> Trojan T-105 700 cycles?
What I've noticed is that Sam's Club seems to buy batteries from whoever
the low bidder is this month. The brand is usually Exide, but changes
from time to time.
PS: The 6v golf cart batteries at my local Sam's Club are Exides, and
are $42 at the moment.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Are the Inertech-Johnson 6V floodies for $45 have similar cycle life as the
Trojan's (from Interstate Battery) ?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yea 55 amphours with a 20 hour load of What amps??? 1.5 amps?
> I do know that Optima dropped the rating back to 50 or 45
> amphours with a shorter time and a higher load.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 12:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
>
>
> > IIRC the YTs were rated 55 AHr at a 20 HOUR load. Not a 20 amp load.
The D34 Optimas are rated 55Ah C/20 (i.e. 20hrs at 55/20=2.75A).
They are also rated 120min reserve at 25A = 50Ah C/2 (discharge to 10.5V
@ 80F as per BCI spec).
The 120min @25A is quite achievable, and while I'd have to dig out my
cycle data to compute actual Wh taking into account the true discharge
voltage curve, an approximate value is 575Wh assuming an average of
11.5V over the complete 50Ah discharge.
Unless your YTs are damaged or cold you ought to be getting close to
500Wh out of them at 25-30A draws.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> I was curious about Sam's $48 6V floodees that say Stowaway on the
> side (was GNB brand) but now have Exide quick twist ganged cap. Does
> anyone know who really makes these? Cycle Life compared to Trojan
> T-105 700 cycles?
Exide owns GNB, and Stowaway is an Exide brand/line:
<http://www.exide.com/products/marine_rv/stowaway_marine_deep_cycle.html
>
I don't see any 6V models listed under the Stowaway line, just 12V, but
that doesn't mean they aren't available. If you compare the
specs/warranty of the Stowaway product to Exide's golf car product you
may find that the Stowaway line is tailored to the marine market and
does not have the same longevity as a golf car battery would.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm. I'd be very interested in the floor chargers and I live on East
Coast. Anyone want to split?
Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry if this is a repeat, but I never saw my previous post. Anyone need 5 of
these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7936173374
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: other options, Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
> I'd double check the manual to be sure, but I believe the T-Rex
> controllers are good to 336 volts, while the Raptors are for up to 156
> volts.
>
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> 1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
Damon and I ran the T-Rexes to 360 volts.
We had no issues at 2000 amps and 360volts worth of Hawkers. Of course we
had a GE 10.4 that had interpoles, and we nevere had any arcing issuse.
This is the secret of keeping a Raptor or T-Rex alive... NO arcing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Sealed PbA battery Options
> Thanks for the info, Rich.
>
> As for the car I will be converting, it is rear wheel drive,
> and not front. Even then, would it still pull 16-18 seconds
> with a Zilla 1k and 240V of orbitals, or could it dip into
> the 15s? That performance is still not too bad, at least
> competitive with most normal cars on the road. I may even go
> with 264V, instead of 240.
>
> Sorry for the long posts, but as you can tell, I'm quite
> interested in this subject.
>
So am I, that's why I made it my buisness.
If you paid for the Zilla, and have the high voltage one, More volts is
always better. Getting all 1000 amps to the motor all way down the drag
strip is the trick.
14s and 15 are possible on paper, it's a lot harder to make it happen on
command.
Cold Lead is a issue... but holding any AGM at 100 F for weeks on end is not
real good for them. Add copy specs I call it.
All I am getting is about 26 amp hours of taxable load from The Orbs.. I am
sure once I get the load fast enough, I can heat them in about 3 cycles from
60 to 100 Deg F. I will try to log a run at 80 Deg F some time soon.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
>The D34 Optimas are rated 55Ah C/20 (i.e. 20hrs at
>55/20=2.75A).
>
>They are also rated 120min reserve at 25A = 50Ah C/2
>(discharge to 10.5V
>@ 80F as per BCI spec).
>
>The 120min @25A is quite achievable, and while I'd
>have to dig out my
>cycle data to compute actual Wh taking into account
>the true discharge
>voltage curve, an approximate value is 575Wh
>assuming an average of
>11.5V over the complete 50Ah discharge.
>
>Unless your YTs are damaged or cold you ought to be
>getting close to
>500Wh out of them at 25-30A draws.
Interesting. So far I trust what Rich has to say, and I'd
like to see this data you mention.
What temperature did you get your data at? Based on what
Rich stated, I'd expect at 90+ F. Is 'cold' anything below
their optimum operating temperature, or do you mean 'cold'
as in it is below 50 degrees outside and has caused their
capacity to plummet?
This 120 [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps is also a sharp contrast to the
rating I found on the Exides. I do recall them being rated
at 95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps for reserve capacity, but Rich did
explain how the difference in the total AH ratings between
the two batteries came about, and it probably applies here
as well. Which would be 475 wh. But this would assume ideal
conditions and operating temperatures, and Rich gets about
300 wh from them instead, and Otmar has gotten about 270 wh,
and those are both real world conditions.
So care to share the data?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From what I've read, tire compounding is always a compromise. Just as we
can't have range, speed, and low cost all in one EV (pick two ;-), tire makers
can't put low rolling resistance, great traction, and long life in one tire.
You
have to give something up. The early Prius owners, for example, complained
bitterly about the short life of their tires. Lately I've seen some making a
fuss
about handling, though I don't know whether that's connected with tires.
Noise is another factor in tires. In my experience, all other things being
equal (which they seldom are), the lower the rolling resistance, the noisier
the tire. Of course there are other design elements that affect noise.
What's unfortunate is that there's no really good way to judge rolling
resistance for tires (other than third party sources, such as the Greenseal
documents mentioned in this thread). If you could walk into a tire dealer and
read a chart that compared traction, tread life, rolling resistance, and maybe
road noise, then you could make your own tire purchasing decision based on
which factors were most and least important to you. But AFAIK no such
animal exists.
FWIW, some years ago I used Goodyear Invicta GLR tires (true low rolling
resistance tires) on one of my cars. They were the noisiest, most squirrely
tires I've ever used, and I was almost glad to be rid of them when they wore
out. But that darn car would just about roll for ^days^ on those tires.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>If you paid for the Zilla, and have the high voltage
>one, More volts is
>always better. Getting all 1000 amps to the motor
>all way down the drag
>strip is the trick.
>14s and 15 are possible on paper, it's a lot harder
>to make it happen on
>command.
On paper, the ADC9'' motor gets all 1,000 motor amps up to
about 3,500-4,000 RPM, depending on variables used, and
assuming a 204V motor voltage limit.
But I remember Berube's comments on simulations. That, and
problems will likely occur throwing that kind of power into
that motor.
600 amps, 192V in a 2,500 pound car is good for 19 second
1/4 mile drags, and 0-40 mph acceleration good enough to
embarass a $40,000 sports car, as evidenced by John Bryan's
beautiful VW, and John Wayland with 1,200 amps, an ADC9'',
and 156V can take his 2,350 pound Meanie from 0-60 in < 6
seconds, while with 800 amps it took 8 seconds. I remember
him claiming in one of his posts, if he were to race Meanie
using his current setup, it might pull high 14s in the
1/4(With the 1,200 amps). Rich Brown, using 144V, two
ADC8'', and a Raptor 1200 can pull low 15s/high 14s, with a
3,100 pound curb weight. It looks to be very possible to
high 14s/low 15s with 1,000 amps and a 204 motor volt limit
on a 2,500 pound conversion, but I'll wait and see after I
get an EV going. 18-19 seconds still wouldn't be that bad.
Rich Rudman wrote:
>All I am getting is about 26 amp hours of taxable
>load from The Orbs.. I am
>sure once I get the load fast enough, I can heat
>them in about 3 cycles from
>60 to 100 Deg F. I will try to log a run at 80 Deg F
>some time soon.
Thanks. I'm interested in these results, and the data that
Roger Stockton claims to have. As it is, I'm certainly
leaning towards the Orbitals, simply because they are about
1/2 the price of the Optimas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that the idea is that this circuit is a good starting point for
an electronic aid to clutchless shifting.
What you have is a mechanism to read the X-Y position of the gear stick
interpreted by a microcontroller.
Now, you could use the provided software to light up an indicator to
tell you what gear you are already in (not particularly useful, as you
have pointed out) or you could do something more...
Since the gadget measures the X-Y coordinates of the gear stick, you
could work out various zones for the position of the stick.
* big blob of neutral in the middle
* moving towards 1st
* in 1st
* moving towards 2nd
* in 2nd
And so on...
Combine this with a microcontroller that has road speed and motor RPM
inputs and can temporarily take control of your speed controller. (I
call this the speed controller controller microcontroller for short)
As you move the gear stick from one gear to another, the microcontroller
knows which gear you are moving towards, knows how fast the EV is
moving, can calculate the required motor RPM for a smooth change, and
when you give it permission via a button on the gear stick it can set
the motor to that speed, perhaps indicating that it is ready by a tone
or light.
At least I think that's what Steven had in mind...
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 1:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: fuel gauge and clutchless shifting
At 04:18 PM 30/11/04 -0700, you wrote:
>Some food for thought on your clutchless shifting:
>
>http://www.circuitcellar.com/avr2004/DA3784.html
>
>- Steven Ciciora
Sorry steve, I don't quite see the relevance. All that I see is an
electronic gadget that saves the minor mental strain of remembering the
last gear shift or looking at the tacho and speedo and making a minor
calculation.
Much more useful if that device were able to determine the gear that you
are moving into and providing a difference signal that showed that the
motor was above or below the required RPMs for the smooth clutchless
shift.
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=dialogue3
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Westlund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Interesting. So far I trust what Rich has to say, and I'd
> like to see this data you mention.
Trust what you like ;^>
The [EMAIL PROTECTED] = 50Ah C/2 *is* the manufacturer's spec. and is available
on the Optima website.
As I recall, it used to be [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=52Ah), but dropped to the
present value at the same time as Optima downgraded the C/20 rating.
> What temperature did you get your data at? Based on what
> Rich stated, I'd expect at 90+ F.
Nope. Room temperature. About 20C or 68F.
The [EMAIL PROTECTED] rating is at 80F; obviously I didn't get the full capacity
at 68F, but as I recall what I got was between 80-100% of rated capacity
(and this from the set of YT blems that I got from Ralph Merwin after
he'd run them in his Prism until he couldn't make his commute any
longer, and then pulled them out and left them sit in his garage until
he got tired of tripping over them, not brand new batteries).
> Is 'cold' anything below their optimum operating
> temperature, or do you mean 'cold' as in it is below 50
> degrees outside and has caused their capacity to plummet?
I mean cold enough to significantly affect capacity. I think Rich
mentioned 60F; this is cold enough that some reduction in capacity will
be obvious.
Optima is a bit light on hard data, so I don't have accurate capacity vs
temperature data for the YT. The following Hawker data suggests the
difference between 80F and 60F would not explain a difference between
the ~0.5kWh spec'd and the 0.28-0.32kWh Rich is seeing:
temperature % capacity
=========== ============
-20C/-4F 65%
0C/32F 84%
25C/77F 100%
40C/104F 110%
Between 0-25C the loss is about 0.64%/deg. C, so the roughly 10C
difference between 60F and the 80F spec temperature should result in
about a 6.4% reduction in capacity (assuming the YTs behave somewhat
like the Hawkers with respect to temperature). This means a 0.5kWh
battery would be reduced to about 0.47kWh.
> This 120 [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps is also a sharp contrast to the
> rating I found on the Exides. I do recall them being rated
> at 95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps for reserve capacity
The Exide is a smaller battery. Lighter weight implies less active
material, so some reduction in capacity is hardly surprising. It is
also not an Optima, so don't expect them to behave identically (e.g. the
Exide can apparently dish out/survive higher amps than the YT, but the
YT has a higher reserve capacity).
Optima also makes various sizes of YT, and the lighter the battery, the
lower the capacity:
e.g.
D51: 26lbs, 41Ah C/20, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
D35: 36.5lb, 48Ah C/20, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Rich gets about
> 300 wh from them instead, and Otmar has gotten about 270 wh,
> and those are both real world conditions.
I believe the number John Wayland put on the list a long, long time ago
was that YTs are good for about 40Ah C/1 in EV use. I don't think
anyone has determined if there was any change at all to YTs associated
with the spec change (i.e. are old and new YTs the same capacity, or was
there a material change associated with the spec change?).
> So care to share the data?
You want data confirming that a YT can be expected to deliver something
like its rated reserve capacity? Sure, I've got no problem showing you
something like that, but no promises as to how soon I'll get around to
digging up the files and sending you something as I'm taking off on
vacation next week and trying to get loose ends tied up at work and home
beforehand. If I can lay my hands on the test data, I will send you
something before I take off.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry wrote:
You need a motor that can turn higher rpm because
amps = torque and at the same amps x rpm, you get
twice the geared torque to the road by a motor turning
twice the rpm for the same amps. You use more of your
Hey, volts = rpm too! Getting a motor that works best (most
efficiently) with your pack voltage is good. Worrying about the rpm
of that motor is silly so long as its within your gearing selection
range, and in a good spot for the motor's efficiency. A high rpm
motor is not some magic bullet for range. If you get more rpm per
volt you get less torque per amp - you need lower gearing to get the
same road torque.
Evan understands this and may have explained it better:
Using gearing to reduce the torque needed from the motor is a good
idea for keeping the motor current lower, which keeps the motor and
controller cooler and may improve efficiency a bit, but you won't
significantly reduce battery current this way - it just means you're
doing the gearing more after the motor instead of before it (in the
controller).
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here's something which I've wondered about for a while:
> >
> > I have a Raptor 600 controller, on which I have the
> > potentiometer for current limit turned all the way up
> > (max current). I have a 0-400 amp ammeter on the battery
> > side of the controller, with the shunt inserted between
> > the controller/motor (-) buss bar and the (-) contactor.
> >
>
> > My biggest problem is that my acceleration in the higher
> > gears is horrible because I can't seem to pull enough
> > current from the batteries. I realize that this is
> > probably because the Raptor is hitting it's max output
> > of 600 motor amps and is going into current limit as the
> > LEDs indicate (In fact, according to the LEDs, my
> > controller is always in current limit when I floor it, no
> > matter what gear).
I'm quite late jumping in here, but something that has been bugging me
that nobody has addressed is why Nick is getting such pitiful current
from his controller in any case.
That is, the DCP Raptor 600 is limited to a maximum of 600 *battery*
amps, not motor amps. Motor/freewheel amps are "unlimited" (~900A).
The current limit adjust allows the battery current limit to be adjusted
from 50-600A.
Nick has a 400A shunt monitoring the battery current and says he has the
battery current limit cranked all the way up, yet he isn't able to peg
his ammeter (ever?), even though the Raptor has its yellow LED lit
(which apparently indicates that it is in current limit).
So, why isn't Nick seeing a solid 600A (or at least a pegged 400A meter)
for at least the first few seconds when he floorboards the throttle
while the controller is cold? I could understand thermal cutback
limiting him once the controller warms up, but surely he ought to be
able to see 600 battery amps at least briefly.
If he is not pegging his 400A meter, then he's getting less than 2/3 of
the power that his controller is capable of, which at low RPM means less
than 2/3 of the torque.
600 motor amps is Curtis level performance; the DCP controller are
supposed to do a lot better than this...
Anybody more intimately familiar with the DCP controllers care to
explain this one?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:45 PM 12/1/04 -0800, you wrote:
<snipped for brevity>
I'm looking for gears to make a custom 2:1 step down gearbox.
Might try Browning Gear, they would have universal app gears for conveyors
as well as shaft bearings. Or google on industrial gears and similar. You
will need to spec torque load and speed etc. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will it feature pictures or video of the Buckeye Bullet?
--- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From Pete Miller < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> Calling all Buckeye Bullet Fans,
>
> Speed Channel will feature the Buckeye Bullet at 2PM ET on this
> coming
> Sunday, December 5th. Watch Buckeye Bullet driver Roger Schroer
> race
> for the Sports Car Club of America National Championship in the
> "Showroom Stock C" class. Roger won the pole position in a Honda
> Civic
> on Hankook tires with a record speed and remained in contention for
> the
> entire 20 laps.
>
> The exciting race was held at Mid-Ohio in September. Did Roger
> have a
> podium finish? You have to watch . . . right to the end of the
> race to
> find out . . . but Buckeyes don't disappoint! Speed Channel taped
> an
> interview with Roger before the race that focused entirely on the
> Buckeye Bullet.
>
> Go Roger! Go Buckeye Bullet!! Go Bucks!!!
>
> Pete Miller
> Fundraising Chairman
> World Champion Buckeye Bullet Electric Land Speed Racing Team
> The Ohio State University
> (614) 791-8538
> Buckeye Bullet Home: www.BuckeyeBullet.com
> Daily Updates & Photos: www.RoadToBonneville.com
>
> Please support The Buckeye Bullet by making your checks payable to
> "The
> Ohio State University Foundation" and write "for the Buckeye
> Bullet" on
> the memo line. Mail these tax deductible contributions to: Buckeye
> Bullet, 930 Kinnear Rd., Columbus, OH 43212
>
>
>
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:02 PM 12/1/04 -0500, you wrote:
Me! I have 100 for sale. Berube had some for sale last year. Or
www.sg-photo.com.
Seth
On Dec 1, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Tim wrote:
Where do you find these ni-cads like the BB6600?
I did a Google search and found nothing : (
Tim
Seth, before anyone bugs Dennis I figured I should mention that I now have
all of those Ni-cads as well as some brand new Marathon flight packs and
all of the SVR-14s and 30s that he had for sale. Plus others, hmm. I guess
you could say I helped him move. I plan to sort and commission the surplus
Nicads and offer them for sale one of these days soon, until then I would
think you are the best source for the NOS ones. BTW, are yours part of the
buy that Bill Mulgrew arranged? Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
when I was racing my little truck (SCCA solo I ) I had removed the
spare for a sway bar and never got around to putting it back on, most
the time i replaced the tires when they got low of tread or old and dry.
only once did I call AAA for a tow when some road debris shreaded the
tire. There is non flamable fix a flat and I used that once, but it
costs 3x the flammable stuff. Even the instructions say to put the stuff
in drive until it seals and inflates then release it and put in air as
soon as possible.
I got 60- 0 in 35 feet with sticky rubber, lightened veicle, special
brake pads and the 14" one, antidive and really good seat belts. really
two things for rolling resistance, casing compliance and rubber compliance
use a high thread count of smaller diameter tire "cords" and you will
get lower rolling resistance without loss of traction
softer rubber deforms more and increases resistance
three things for traction: Grip, strength, keeping it against the road
grip is increased with softer rubber to the point where it just gives way
weak rubber wears off to fast and you "slip off the rubber"
hard rubber slips accros surface
low(or really high) inflation, bad geometry or bad springs and shocks
allow rubber to loose it's contact patch
additives to rubber can make it firm but grippy under load and add cost
to tire. (silicon? if i remember)
I have a book around here someplace with details, someplace.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes they need watering cell by cell. I don't know how often.
Seth
On Dec 1, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
I'd double check the manual to be sure, but I believe the T-Rex
controllers are good to 336 volts, while the Raptors are for up to 156
volts.
However, that said, I think 192 volts is about as high as a 'backyard
conversion' should go. I'd only consider 336 volts with sealed
batteries (to avoid ground faults), a bunch more knowledge of how to
be safe with that kind of voltage, and good support from someone with
real experience in such.
As to the batteries, do the BB6000's need to be watered? Frequently?
Cell-by-cell?
Ben Apollonio wrote:
On Dec 1, 2004, at 3:47 PM, jerry dycus wrote:
Hi John and All,
Why not use starting ni-cads like the BB6600?
They will put out the power, almost no
peurkert effect, no batt regs needed, costs are the
same and the ni-cads would last 20+ yrs.
Same power you say? These do look like they'd cost little more than
a pack of YT's, which I admit is quite tempting. However, I thought
NiCds were far from as capable as AGM's current-wise. Or are you
talking about going to a 336V pack to reduce current draw without
reducing power output and capacity? Still tempting, except I'm
pretty sure my T-Rex 1000 would bite the dust if I exceeded the 192V
I'm currently planning. Also, without higher voltage (than 336) or
paralleling packs, I don't think I could actually squeeze out much
more range (11kWh for 336V of those NiCd's, 10kWh for the YT's)...
-Ben
--
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First, when mixed with air it is explosive.
>
> Got some old tires and rims from the junkyard. Poked a hole in
> the sidewall and screwed in a spark plug. Filled the tire with the ideal
> mix (use yer gas laws :-) and fired the plug remotely using a neon sign
> transformer.
>
> The explosion was much more powerful than a standard military hand
> grenade. I'd judge it equivalent to 2 or 3 sticks of dynamite.
Excellent! Wish I had tried that. I don't think my neighbors would appreciate
it though.
On a more serious note, they are making these products without explosive gasses
now. You just have
to pay attention to the label. Sooner or later you may not be able to find the
"fun" kind. I
actually carry two cans, because I was caught driving across the logging roads
in Maine and got
two flats right in a row. Not going to let that happen again. I also have a
tire plugging kit for
when I get home and can fix the tire correctly. If you leave the nail in, it
will work it's way
out at the worst time. And the convenience of being able to drain a can into
the tire in any
weather and get right back on the road is hard to beat.
Dave Cover
PS The day I got the two flat tires I had just stopped at a little store in
Kokadjo, Me. where a
logging truck driver told me a tale of getting three flats in one day. Somehow,
when I went to pay
for our coffee and muffins, a simple tire plug kit got mixed in with the other
items. I returned
the kit not knowing what was in store for me a few miles down the road. I
should have taken it as
a sign and just gone back home. Somebody was trying to warn me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
60-0 in 35 feet of 135 feet? 35 feet means an average decel of ~3.5G.
Not likely unless your truck was made by Williams :)
Seth
On Dec 2, 2004, at 7:29 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
when I was racing my little truck (SCCA solo I ) I had removed the
spare for a sway bar and never got around to putting it back on, most
the time i replaced the tires when they got low of tread or old and
dry. only once did I call AAA for a tow when some road debris shreaded
the tire. There is non flamable fix a flat and I used that once, but
it costs 3x the flammable stuff. Even the instructions say to put the
stuff in drive until it seals and inflates then release it and put in
air as soon as possible.
I got 60- 0 in 35 feet with sticky rubber, lightened veicle, special
brake pads and the 14" one, antidive and really good seat belts.
really
two things for rolling resistance, casing compliance and rubber
compliance
use a high thread count of smaller diameter tire "cords" and you will
get lower rolling resistance without loss of traction
softer rubber deforms more and increases resistance
three things for traction: Grip, strength, keeping it against the road
grip is increased with softer rubber to the point where it just gives
way
weak rubber wears off to fast and you "slip off the rubber"
hard rubber slips accros surface
low(or really high) inflation, bad geometry or bad springs and shocks
allow rubber to loose it's contact patch
additives to rubber can make it firm but grippy under load and add
cost to tire. (silicon? if i remember)
I have a book around here someplace with details, someplace.
--- End Message ---
