EV Digest 3989
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Chargeing questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Manufacturing an input shaft
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Manufacturing an input shaft
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) V is for Voltage in the NY Times?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Chargeing questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 300zx conversion
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Range + Golf cart vs. AGM wars
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Range + Golf cart vs. AGM wars
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Initial EV plans
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers That Refuse to Die!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Manufacturing an input shaft
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Manufacturing an input shaft
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Initial EV plans
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Manufacturing an input shaft
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Manufacturing an input shaft
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Follow-up on Valence Li-Ion batteries in 12V size
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Zap-I wouldn't trust them with any EV or their stock!
by Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Follow-up on Valence Li-Ion batteries in 12V size
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) High current li-ions from Sony
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by richard bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zamboni batteries,lead acid/AGM
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Queastion about 300zx
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Duramax diesel (OT)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Zamboni Batteries
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I recharge as early as possible. I would NOT wait days to do it though.
Getting a break on the electricity cost would be enough for me to delay
recharge until after midnight.
I usually recharge immediately because I usually get distracted (or
redirected) and half the time forget to do it later. I get more reliable
charges (remember to do it) if I do it immediately.
I would say waiting a few hours won't hurt them significantly. Other
opinions will vary.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Chargeing questions
> I was considering having a special meter set at my house for chargeing.
> The deal is $.05/kwh if I agree to charge only midnight to 7 am.
>
> 1. So if I drive to work and school, 24miles total and discharge to 30%
> soc, will letting the batteries(AGM) sit from 3 (2 days a week) or
> 6(3days a week) to midnight, waiting to charge, shorten their life
> significantly? I know I have heard not to let them sit discharged, but
> is that measured by the hour or the day?
>
> 2. If I decide to ask my boss to charge at work, whats a good way of
> figurng out how much to pay. Here will be the scenario
>
> up at 5 am get ready and drive the 8 miles to work with lights and heat
> at 2:30, drive 8 miles home, shower and get ready for school (1 or 2
> hours available to charge during this time)
> at 5:30 pm drive 4 miles to school, lights on
> at 7pm drive home 4 miles with lights on to home
>
> 8+8+4+4 = 24
>
>
> what would be best?
> # miles
> +lights
> *heater
>
> 8+*->charge-> 8 ->4+->4+->charge
> 8+*-> 8 ->charge->4+->4+->wait til midnight->charge
> 8+*-> 8 ->charge->4+->4+->charge immidiatly
> 8+*-> 8 ->4+->4+->charge immidiatly
> 8+*-> 8 ->4+->4+->wait til midnight->charge //this is the one
> I am worried the most about
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are going to find that the input shaft of the transmission also has a
gear on it. I used a 2.5 inch thick aluminum motor to transmission adapter
which was machine down a bit, so the input shaft fit just right into the
pilot bushing.
The input shaft must be able to float in the pilot bushing on the clutch
adapter. Bolting up a transmission to a bell housing is not in perfect
alignment. Its normally 1/3000 to 1/10000 of a
inch.
If you already have a adapter, than just add a spacer section to that.
You will also will find in car transmissions, that you may not have the room
for throw out bearings and spline length for the clutch after it is shorten.
It is possible in larger transmissions, you can cut a section out of the
spline section and couple that with a spline coupler which would not
interfered with the clutch. If you made this coupler permanent, than you
cannot get the throw out bearing on.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dragan Stancevic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Manufacturing an input shaft
> On Thursday 30 December 2004 20:44, Seth Allen wrote:
> > Yep. Well, technically, it was an ac induction motor armature with a
> > transmission shaft spline on it. Heat treated 4340 steel. I would
> > actually suggest taking the existing shaft, cutting it down and using
> > loctite in a sleeve to rejoin the parts *if* you have adequate bonding
> > area. Loctite 620 is what I used to join two other parts in the
> > drivetrain that took a lot of torque. Enough to spin the tires on a 16
> > ton Kenworth (hybrid) truck, so the stuff will hold if you do the math
> > right. Yes, people will think you are crazy, but it can work.
>
> So here's the thing, the motor shaft looks like this:
> http://www.metricmind.com/images/5133shaft.jpg
> So what I would like is to make a transmission input shaft that would
> slide
> onto the motor shaft, just like this adapter:
> http://www.metricmind.com/images/hub3.jpg
>
> I'm going to take apart the transmission tomorrow just to see how
> complicated
> is this particular input shaft(shape wise). If it's not too complicated I
> could probably spin it on my lathe out of a 4340 steel rod, and than ship
> it
> to someone to make the DIN spline to fit onto the motor, and than heat
> threat
> it. The way it looks now is that it would be cheaper than buying all that
> extra aluminum and extra milling to pad the difference.
>
> But what you are suggesting is interesting too. If I machined a sleeve
> that
> fit onto the tranny input shaft and on the spline adapter on the other
> side
> it could work too. I would just need to cut off the input shaft short and
> make a sleeve. Interesting.
>
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/images/hub4_.jpg
> Or perhaps since I do have the shaft adapter in picture above maybe I
> could
> just spin a tranny input shaft that would mate onto the keyway on the
> shaft
> adapter. I don't like having so many extra couplings but it might work
> just
> as well and making a keyway is much cheaper than an internal spline.
>
>
> --
> Peace can only come as a natural consequence
> of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may want to check with a transmission shop or go to the library and
look at the interchange guide.
First find out what the root transmission is like borg-warner T5, then
find out all the cars it is in nisan,chevy,ford and the years and spend
a day at the wrecking yard with the clutch disk you like and some
calipers, you may get lucky.
Option 2 , your making an adapter already, get a transmission that fits
better and have the drivline altered.
But I have a question on how 4 inch could be to long, Are you going
clutchless? or are you talking about the fact that the electic motor has
a 1.5 inch before the adapter requirement.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The feature just hit the NY Times website. I assume this means it is in
tomorrow morning's print edition.
Look at the auto section off the front page:
http://nytimes.com
Here are the direct links:
http://tinyurl.com/6h5ab
http://tinyurl.com/4l6jv
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> I was considering having a special meter set at my house for chargeing.
> The deal is $.05/kwh if I agree to charge only midnight to 7 am.
>
> 1. So if I drive to work and school, 24miles total and discharge to 30%
> soc, will letting the batteries(AGM) sit from 3 (2 days a week) or
> 6(3days a week) to midnight, waiting to charge, shorten their life
> significantly?
No. You only need to worry about them sitting for days (not hours) in a
discharged state.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
John Westlund wrote:
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> >At least it has big brakes and a stout rear end with
> >independent suspension. What was the weight of a 510?
>
> I know this question wasn't adressed to me, but over a year
> ago when I was looking for conversion candidates, I remember
> a fully-outfitted 510 with no driver and a full tank being
> around 2,350-2,400 pounds.
Incorrect. The Datsun 510 sedan weighed just 2130 lbs....of course, compared to
the little
1200 sedan at 1587 lbs., that sounds heavy to me :-)
> A stripped version modded for
> racing could get down to about 1,750 pounds, I think.
Yeah, pretty close on this spec. That weight, with 250 hp on tap, made for one
hell of a
scream'n 510! I had the pleasure of watching the fully decked out BRE Datsun
510s clean
the clocks of Corvettes at PIR...great fun. My brother Roger was so impressed
with the
modified Datsuns, he sold his 327 Corvette, and got a Datsun 240Z. It didn't
take long for
he and I to turn it into a monster machine, with triple dual barrel Webbers,
headers, hi
compression pistons, ported head, Nissan Comp. distributor, etc, etc. I'd
estimate 0-60
was in the 5.5 second range, and top speed was around 150 mph!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
>From the Madman:
>Blue Meanie and Goldie have Very close to the same power limits, I have
>front drive John has rear drive, that's the performance differences.
Agreed. Goldie has killer off-line torque, so much, that it's front wheel drive
set-up
just can't cope with it.
>If we both had the same layouts, it would be a coin toss at every EV race.
Maybe :-) It might be so close, that I'd have to kick up the subwoofer drive a
bit from a
little extra push :-) I'd love to see Goldie with fresh Orbitals, that Z 2K
installed, and
some tricks from the rice burner crowd applied to the front drive train to get
some bite
off the line. I've always said that Goldie should be running 14's.
After many times behind the wheel, I stand by that....only if work was done up
front. Come
to think of it, with Orbitals against Meaniie's Optimas, and a Z 2K against a
Raptor 1200,
if Goldie's front end was race ready with sticky meats...hmm, I might call in
sick.
>John has also eaten his tranny, so you won't see John and I duking it out.
>I also would not want to disgrace his beautiful master piece with my old
>rust bucket....
Just so others won't get the wrong idea....the tranny 'was' eaten, but it was
also
replaced with an all new one about 4 months ago.
Blue Meanie's in great shape, and runs smooth and strong these days. Bring it
on, Rich!
>When John wants to Kick Butt he uses the right tool, and that's the White
>Zombie....
Guilty as charged. At 288V, it should be even quicker (barely cracked the 12's
@ 240V),
and maybe 4 or 5 mph faster in the 1/4 mile this Spring when PIR reopens after
the Winter
close-down. A 12.7 or 12.8 @ 105 mph sounds like a nice goal to shoot for.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
John Bryan wrote:
> Jonathan has been off the EV List for several years, so I
> forwarded him the message --------------------
> The boat batteries (flooded type) were a good experiment. I had more range
> but also more
> weight and a short life. After 18 solid months of abuse, they were done.
> AGMs with a decent charger and shallow discharges definitely outlast boat
> batteries, even under the same conditions.
>
> I have 775 cycles on my Optimas, and over 14,000 electric miles on the 914.
> .....These Optima batteries are 6 years old, and I
> have been driving with them for 5+ years now....the
> 914 is faster with the lighter, higher performance AGMs than before.
Ah yes, I remember Jonathan well. Like the current newbies looking into battery
types, way
back when, it was he who was the newbie coming to the EVDL for similar advice.
The same
war between the prevailing old school flooded batteries and the new fangled
Optimas ensued
then, too. I was just as vocal then, but in the end, after lots of personal
phone calls to
me, Jonathan decided against Optimas and went with flooded batteries. He was
immediately
underwhelmed with the so-so performance his supposedly sporty 914 was going to
have (lots
of voltage sag), and if I remember correctly, in less than a year, the
batteries were
already failing. Meanwhile, I was still on the same set of Optimas I had when
he first
contacted me, and after his flooded batteries had pooped out on him, Blue
Meanie was still
smoking its tires, still running reliably. Funny thing.. John Bryan also
recommended Optimas
and was running them in his Ghia at the time. Remarkably, is still on that
same pack!
I'm glad Jonathan finally came around.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An expert that has actually done an EV can correct me if I'm
off a bit on something, but I'll take a stab at it.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>Any(if any?) advantages to using say a Warp 11" motor
>instead of a 8" or 9" in a ~2500lb car?
One obvious one is more torque and more peak horsepower can
be made using your controller. You might also see a
slight(very) efficiency benefit. I do recall the 11'' having
interpoles, which means you might be able to do a regen
setup, although how someone would manage that without
blowing that motor to pieces using such high voltages is
beyond me. Otmar tried a high voltage DC regen setup, and it
worked good at first. Then it got ugly. Usually, DC regen is
done with a Kostov(the WarP 11'' is similar) and no more
than 108V, and with a Zapi Sepex 600 amp controller.
>144v vs 192v?
>
>16 batteries in series = more range compared to 12 >bats in
series right?
More deliverable AH and Peukert's effect is also not as bad,
thus improving your overall system efficiency. You'd see
range roughly proportional to the increase in battery weight
over original battery weight(A little better actually, since
peukert's is reduced so much and internal resistance is so
small with AGMs), but the main improvement will be in
acceleration and top speed. A higher voltage will extend the
peak RPM of your torque curve significantly, increase peak
horsepower, increase higher end acceleration, and increase
top speed. You'd get more "passing power" at highway speeds.
>2500lb car, 9" motor, 144 or even 192 volts. Ballpark
>figures for 0-60 and 1/4 mile time? ~6 seconds 0-60
>and
>14's in the 1/4? (I'm dreaming right? :) ) Any range
>estimates?
I haven't built or raced an EV, so my guess has mainly been
pulled out my rear, but I'll still take a guess at it.
If you have front wheel drive:
With Zilla 1k, 144V, 9'', my guess is 0-60 about 11 seconds,
1/4 mile about 19-20 seconds, 14-16 miles range highway to
80% DoD.
With Zilla 1k, 192V, 9'', my guess is 0-60 about 10 seconds,
1/4 mile about 17-18 seconds, 20-23 miles range highway to
80% DoD.
If you have rear wheel drive:
With Zilla 1k, 144V, 9'', my guess is 0-60 about 9 seconds,
1/4 mile about 17 seconds, 14-16 miles range highway to 80%
DoD.
With Zilla 1k, 192V, 9'', my guess is 0-60 about 7 seconds,
1/4 mile in low to mid 15 seconds range, 20-23 miles range
highway to 80% DoD.
This assumes all conversion setups no matter the pack size
have a final weight of 2,500 pounds, uses Orbitals, range
assumed is if car is driven moderately, and has an overall
Cd*A of about 6.0. If you want 0-60 in about 6 seconds and
break into 14s, you might want a higher voltage pack, like
the 240V I'm planning for mine, *if* you can fit one in, and
you might get into the mid to upper 14s. OR a Zilla 2k,
which would put you in low 14s(or less) with rear wheel
drive and 192V. Don't know about front wheel drive, as
traction will be your limiting factor. Bill Dube, even with
1200 amps and 192V and about 215 peak horse on tap in a
2,800 pound conversion, could pull about 10 second 0-60
times and 17s-18s in the 1/4 because he was using front
wheel drive. Rich using 1,200 amps and 156V in 'Goldie' has
similar performance to Dube's ride, a little better,
actually. He is also front wheel drive.
If you want more range, Optimas might be wanted, under
careful driving that is(please don't take my literal word
for it, you'll see why later). Under hard driving Orbitals
provide 5-10% more capacity for large 300+ amp currents,
under modest driving with about 50 amps for highway cruising
and 150-ish amps for accelerating, Optimas will give you
about 5-10% more range per pound of battery over Orbitals.
The lower the cruising and accelerating amps, the more
dramatic the differences in results appear. Of course, this
is from two conflicting data sets, given by Rich Rudman and
Roger Stockton. It's all in the amount of amps used. Rich
tests his at a variety of currents in rough conditions, and
Roger tests his in clean easy settings at nameplate reserve
capacity rate(25 amps for Optimas). Under Rich's data,
Orbitals provide about 320 wh per 41 pound battery and
Optimas provide about 290 wh per 45 pound battery, and under
Roger's data, Optimas provide about 450-500 wh per 45 pound
battery at 25 amp rates. Running simulations, with 55
entered for Peukert's capacity for Orbitals, .0019 Ohms
entered for internal resistance for Orbitals, and 1.08
entered for Peukert's exponent for Orbitals, 1.12 entered
for Peukert's exponent for Optimas, 74 entered for Puekert's
capacity for Optimas, and .0028 ohms entered for internal
resistance for Optimas, the Optimas provide between 13% and
16% more capacity per pound of battery at constant amp
draws(depending on how you play around with the figures).
Keep in mind Optimas and Orbitals weigh 45 and 41 pounds
respectively. Orbitals will give you a lot more performance
than Optimas, since Orbitals don't sag as much and their
power peaks at about 2,000 amps. Optimas reach peak power at
about 1,200 amps and sag to about 7V under this load.
To compare the two types of batteries, Otmar uses 20
Orbitals and has 22 miles max 60-65 mph range to 100% DoD in
his 914 getting 240 wh/mile. But he drives like a maniac and
uses his ride to test his 2,000 amp controllers. Rich Rudman
gets(I think) about 16 miles max highway using 156V of
Orbitals. Rich also drives like the Madman he is. Dan
Shoop's austinev.org entry lists his 168V Exide-powered
Nissan Sentra as having 10-14 miles range, my guess is under
abusive driving conditions as the car looks to be designed
for to 100%. Commuter Cars' Tango using 25 Orbitals gets
around 60-80 miles per charge, a high voltage pack that
virtually kills the Peukert's effect, while that can drop to
30 miles under hard driving. Ryan Bohm using 144V of
Orbitals on his Nissan 200SX expects to get about 12 miles
range, but his car is fairly large by EV racing standards.
On Optimas, AC Propulsion's TZero using 336V will get about
180 wh/mile at 60 mph, and get 80-100 miles to full
discharge, but it has so many batteries Peukert's is almost
eliminated. Coconni's CRX also using a similarly sized pack
gets about 135 miles to full discharge at 45-50 mph speeds,
using about 130 wh/mile at those speeds. John Bryan's
electric Karmen Ghia with 192V of Optimas can get 60 miles
to full discharge city/highway mix, with mostly city at
about 40-45 mph, and about 25-30% highway at 60 mph and sees
about 140 wh/mile under these conditions and keeps up with
traffic using about 100 amps. Blue Meanie using 156V of
Optimas when driven hard like Otmar or Rich drives gets
about 15 miles to 100% DoD, 25 miles reliably under
'moderate' driving, 31 pussy-footing it as of today using a
somewhat worn out pack, but according to his austinev.org
entry, when the batteries were newer, they did more than
this. Wayland projects that with an upgrade to 204V of new
Exide Orbitals, Meanie might get 35-40 miles range under
'moderate' to 'spirited' driving conditions.
All these figures are quoted to full discharge, not 80%(You
don't want to go beyond 80% DoD). But don't exactly take my
word on that one, as this is claimed data, and not exactly
hard data for these range figures. There are plenty of posts
on Optimas vs. Orbitals in the archives and some have
concluded they are virtually the same battery, while others
see Optimas as having more range per pound. Rich Rudman and
Roger Stockton have the hard data using their methods, and
for the range estimates I gave you for your conversion, I
tried to be somewhere between the two data points of
abusive(but FUN!) driving, and giving the old hammer the
grandma treatment. Keep in mind that AC drives are much
easier on the current draw than DC for similar performance,
due to the necessary high voltage used for the battery pack.
Pulling 1,600 amps from 20 Orbitals like Otmar does for a
1/4 mile run will drain1/4-1/3 of the battery pack to pull
high 13s/ low 14s, or if you have a Wayland 'switch' setup
for 3,000+ amps, ALL of it for a 1/4 mile run. While a lead
acid TZero, with 336V of Optimas not drawing more than 550
amps is certainly capable of being driven 25-30 miles to the
track, raced a few times pulling mid 13s, and being driven
back home, all on one charge.
>Thanks for any and all info. Constructive criticism
>welcome.
Always expect the worst case scenario, which with a 192V
pack would be about 13-15 miles range to 80% DoD using
either battery. Ask yourself if you'll be happy with that,
and if not, try to work with using a larger pack just to be
safe. That's how I'm looking at it, at least. Then if you
can manage double that worst case scenaro or more when you
get your EV on the road you'll be very happy. It's all in
the amps used. In the meantime, make sure you cut down all
parasitic sources of drag and try to find a way to maximize
both range and performance from where your planned
conversion stands. That is what I'm planning.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One caveat... your math assumes that you can generate infinite G forces at
zero velocity. Vehicles generally have a traction limit or gearing limit
that produce a fixed acceleration for the first few feet. This can be
modeled as Vel=Acc*time. If you integrate the constant acceleration period
up to the time when it reaches the constant power time, it produces a
reasonable prediction.
A better model would compensate for the aerodynamic and frictional losses
and reduce the gross power to produce a net power before the integration.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janez Svetlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers That Refuse to Die!
>
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > I'm travelling, and depending on my memory, so you could be right. I
> > don't have an easy way to calculate how fast you could do 0-60 mph on 54
> > kw. (Can anyone help?)
>
> ...
>
> > So... if a vehicle only has 54kw, but it can produce this 54kw
> > continuously as the vehicle accellerates, how fast can a 2400 lbs
> > vehicle accellerate?
>
> work:
> W=mv^2/2
> m=1344kg (2400lbs)
> v=27.8m/s (100kph, 60mph)
> ***W=518kJ***
>
> time:
> T=W/P
> P=54kW
> ***T=9.5s***
>
> If you could get 54 kw to the wheels all the time, the vehicle could
> accelerate to 0-60mph in about 10 seconds.
>
> janez
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday 30 December 2004 22:16, Roland Wiench wrote:
> The input shaft must be able to float in the pilot bushing on the clutch
> adapter. Bolting up a transmission to a bell housing is not in perfect
> alignment. Its normally 1/3000 to 1/10000 of a
> inch.
>
> If you already have a adapter, than just add a spacer section to that.
>
> You will also will find in car transmissions, that you may not have the
> room for throw out bearings and spline length for the clutch after it is
> shorten.
>
> It is possible in larger transmissions, you can cut a section out of the
> spline section and couple that with a spline coupler which would not
> interfered with the clutch. If you made this coupler permanent, than you
> cannot get the throw out bearing on.
Roland-
just a clarification I did figure out that there would be a gear on the input
shaft I was just hoping that it could be taken off easily and mounted onto
the new shaft.
Also I am not using the clutch at all, I am trying to couple the shafts
directly, but both shafts are really long, so I would need a 4" gap between
the clutch bell and the motor flange.
What I want to do is make the input shaft of the transmission ~4" shorter,
there is plenty left and since I am not using a clutch the throw out bearing
is gone and not needed. Basically I wish the transmission input shaft was ~4"
shorter or to be more precise, 3" shorter and had ~1" deep hole for spline or
regular shaft with keyway mating.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday 30 December 2004 22:31, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> You may want to check with a transmission shop or go to the library and
> look at the interchange guide.
> First find out what the root transmission is like borg-warner T5, then
> find out all the cars it is in nisan,chevy,ford and the years and spend
> a day at the wrecking yard with the clutch disk you like and some
> calipers, you may get lucky.
It's a Toyo Kogyo Mazda M5OD R2 5-speed overdrive, used in Mazda and Ford
trucks.
> But I have a question on how 4 inch could be to long, Are you going
> clutchless? or are you talking about the fact that the electic motor has
> a 1.5 inch before the adapter requirement.
Going clutchless.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What size Anderson connectors are you planning on using and how big is the
Zilla?
The biggest Anderson connector I have handled was a 350 amp unit. You will
need to keep the Zilla turned down to make those last.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 8:55 PM
Subject: Initial EV plans
> Still at the early planning stages here.
>
> A quick basic drawing:
>
> http://img150.exs.cx/img150/5492/ev1uo.gif
>
> In that example, would the Anderson Connectors be able to
> handle the amps in all those situations? The thing I like
> about that setup is everything can be disconnected and it's
> all modular. Just seems like an idyllic setup too me.
>
> Or, could all that be hardwired together? If it was, could
> the charger be used and it not have any effect on the
> controller for example?
>
> Now for the "safety" items, I can only imagine something
> happening in the motor, controller, or charger to cause a
> short. Where does a circuit breaker and/or a fuseable link
> or two fit into that above drawing?
>
> Any(if any?) advantages to using say a Warp 11" motor
> instead of a 8" or 9" in a ~2500lb car?
>
> 144v vs 192v?
>
> 16 batteries in series = more range compared to 12 bats in
> series right?
>
> Also, how are all these gauges connected to the system?
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/gauges.shtml
>
> 2500lb car, 9" motor, 144 or even 192 volts. Ballpark
> figures for 0-60 and 1/4 mile time? ~6 seconds 0-60 and
> 14's in the 1/4? (I'm dreaming right? :) ) Any range
> estimates?
>
>
> Thanks for any and all info. Constructive criticism
> welcome.
>
> Regards
>
> Ryan
>
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> I'm going to take apart the transmission tomorrow just to see how
> complicated is this particular input shaft(shape wise). If it's not too
> complicated I could probably spin it on my lathe out of a 4340 steel rod,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7943992011#ebayphotohosting
Well I guess that is my answer, the gear on the input shaft seems that is a
part of the shaft. Not just attached. So I guess the option is cut it short
and fit a sleeve on it.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
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> It's a Toyo Kogyo Mazda M5OD R2 5-speed overdrive, used in Mazda and Ford
> trucks.
Correction, it seems that I have conflicting information it's not Toyo Kogyo,
it's a Mazda M5OD R1.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
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Not sure, but I think the local amusement park burns up hundreds (?) of
gels or sla like this every every season? (golf carts, swans, bumper
boats, etc.)
Maybe Gary the Mgr. will shave me off a couple of dozen to play with as
a finders fee... I mentioned these to him last fall and he seemed to
twig to the idea.
I want lots to play with :)
get yer orders in early folks
LoCk
on the hard, and scootin'by the bay
Toronto Harbour
--- Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
e> Looks interesting--I'd encourage others to check it out too. I'll
> ask
> them about pricing to see if these are unobtainium or not. Maybe we
> could all chip in $10 or $20 to get a few for Rich or Joe to put to
> the test...
> --
> Mark
> Peter Guggenheim - Business Development Manager - Large Format Energy
> Solutions
> Valence Technology, Inc. - 6504 Bridge Point Pkwy. - Suite 415 -
> Austin, TX 78730
> 512-527-2939 (direct) - 512-415-0756 (cell) - 512-527-2910 (fax) -
> http://www.valence.com
> *************************
> So, a max of 28 batteries in series, which is 336 volts. Hmm, a
> high-voltage AC system could keep the max draw down to a reasonable
> level.
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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I was selling an EV and they offered to buy it with
stock or 50/50. As I talked to him, if I sold it to
them, they wanted to pay me to fix up completely. I
told them I wasn't interested. All they know how to do
is sell and promote and put out headlines. I also had
Alex Campbell try to hire me to be one of their EV
mechnanics, I also told him I wasn't interested. I
think those guys don't know their stuff, just want to
get rich, and won't listen to the EV owners for
advice. Give them ten more years and they probably
won't exist because they would fall on their face. The
only reason they are still around, is because they buy
cheap products in china and mark them up four times
and later drop the price to sell more. Just a bunch of
rip-offs.
Ivan Workman
(909) 595-3365
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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Sure, but in our EV use, we must look at "usable life price" so whole kwh
delivered price, not purchase price.
otherwise we would stay for ever with lead batteries ;^)
I'm still waiting to see what give "good ones" TS cells under Madman battery
cycler hands...
happy new year
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dragan Stancevic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: Follow-up on Valence Li-Ion batteries in 12V size
> On Thursday 30 December 2004 13:47, Mark Dodrill wrote:
> > Looks interesting--I'd encourage others to check it out too. I'll ask
> > them about pricing to see if these are unobtainium or not. Maybe we
> > could all chip in $10 or $20 to get a few for Rich or Joe to put to
> > the test...
>
> I asked them and TS about pricing information and, TS came much much
cheaper
> than they did.
>
> --
> Peace can only come as a natural consequence
> of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
>
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I happened across a press release from Sony about li-ions coming out in January
- check out the power density:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200412/04-060E/
If you can't tell, I'm looking at the 26650VT cells, which have a maximum output
of 50A (20C). At 90gm, that's twice as much as the G8 cells of the same
capacity, but the wt/gm is better than li-polys. A series/parallel (2000
cells!) could max out a 1K Zilla in a 400# pack; it's nothing like the Bolders
fueling the Killacycle, but perhaps useful hybridized with another pack.
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Hi all,
James Massey wrote:
At 01:11 PM 30/12/04 -0800, Gadget wrote:
I have four strings of Hawkers on my EMW, and I have
the banks cross tied, so that each level of batts is
at the same voltage. I don't have regs on them yet, so
I periodically charge each level independently to keep
them in balance. Does anyone else cross tie their
strings? it seems to work well for me, is there a
reason why I shouldn't?
Gadget
Only by observation - Richard Bebbington had triplet sealed batteries
in his mini, when one was failing, he 'knew something wasn't right'
but had no means to measure what was going on. So the bad one in a
triplet pulled down the others, and *then* he knew where the problem
was. I'm sure he'll come in with his experience if he has an important
comment to make.
I'v gone with dual strings, each with their own regulator, so I will
be able to tell when a module goes bad.
James.
Yes, I've been running with "buddy pairs" in the Mini, ten sets of
paired up 50Ah Dynasty
AGMs. Each pair has a regulator, which can bypass 1 amp ( any more,
and the plastic
housing around the turn-signal bulb "load" melts! ).
At first, it worked beautifully. The charger ( 4 big telecoms switching
PSUs in series ) would
stuff 20 amps in, the voltage of the pack would rise up, and the current
tapered naturally down
to where the regs could handle it when any battery got full before the
others.
However, I've been fighting against imbalanced battery pairs for over a
year now.
( that's what comes of being a cheapskate, and buying surplus batteries! )
At first, it was always battery pair no. 9 that would be "Going South".
Now, it seems pair no. 2 is near Death's door. I've already pulled the
weak unit from this pair, now it seems the replacement has been sent
to an early grave as well. My batteries fear being placed in the
no. 2 slot! ;-)
My useable capacity is down to around 20 Ah, out of a nameplate 100 Ah...
....that's a lot of heavy lead just going along for the ride! Not good. :-(
I'm going to pull them all out, and capacity test them using the spare
E-meter.
Not fun, but I want to make some room for the small Thundersky pack I've
got from Jim Fell as an experiment.
( 50Ah of Thunderskys, working with with 50Ah of stiff AGMs.... )
Anyway, now I wish i'd gone with two individual strings, with regs
on each battery, like James is doing. As others have pointed out,
with buddy-pairs,you never know whether the current is dividing
equally between the batteries or not, so you don't really know what's
happening to them ( as if we ever know! )
As for Chris's batteries in his Prism, Chris do you have any way to
interact with the charger short of reprogramming it? Any sort of
"yikes, slow down" digital, or serial input? It seems to me that your
charger is killing batteries because it doesn't know that one of them is
out-of-balance, and is already full. You need to somehow rig
your battery monitor LED things to the charger, to make it throttle
back.
Thinking about this, for a crazy project in work, we needed to detect
the state of many light-beams using plastic optical fibre, but I really
didn't want to replicate lots of photodiode amplifier circuits.
A co-worker came up with the brilliant idea of using a Texas Instruments
128 pixel linear CCD chip to detect light from the fibres, arranged in a
row.
We cut a slot in a block of plastic, to hold the fibres so they
ended directly above the CCD's sensor area.
We were able to get it working through over 3 metres of plastic fibre optic,
using just high-brightness 5mm LEDs, pushed into Lego Technic bricks
( they fit into the holes in the sides! ). The funny grey Lego
beam-connector
axle-thingies held the plastic fibres ( with some heatshrink ) We could
even unplug the fibres from the Lego "LED-holders", and plug them back in!
With a bit of PIC code, it could monitor tens of inputs hundreds
of times per second. Looking at the output of the CCD on the scope
( it's an analogue output, clocked out one pixel at a time ) we could
clearly see a peak for each fibre. I just digitized the CCD's analogue
output
in the middle of each peak, at pixel no. 10, 25, 41, 67, etc. to get the
state
of each fibre's LED.
Maybe something like this would be useful for monitoring Chris's batteries?
Tiny monitors, one per battery, with Lee's red/green LED circuit.
Plastic fibre optic leads out of the battery box, no high-voltage
isolation worries.
Central monitoring box, which can light up a "go home now" light
for discharge, or a "slow down" input on the charger.
( if someone does try this, make sure you polish the ends of the fibres
up - it really helps )
Chris, I'm happy to help you with PIC code/circuitry, if it'll help you
protect another pack of expensive Hawkers... we have a few
spare CCD chips in work, and I have lots of PIC chips.
I even have some old 42Ah Hawkers lying around here, yes they
still hold their voltage! ( don't know how much capacity they have, I
should do some tests on them )
Regards
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
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This has been my experience also , when I see people talk about 400 cycles /
80% discharge I think this might make somebody thinking twice about doing a
conversion , still I must say 3500 is very impressive , what makes you think
they are down 50%? Is this ah or voltage your looking at . What current
draw are you doing , 10 minutes to 50% would be high.
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ev list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:10 PM
Subject: Zamboni batteries,lead acid/AGM
Have been following your postings on the golf cart versus AGM batteries, I
am running a zamboni on lead acid, weight is no problem, I run the pack for
10 minutes and recharge for 45 minutes for each flood. The season consists
of about 1700 floods (or about 1700 recharges) The packs are only down
50-60% when we recharge, I am on my second season of US batteries (12 6volt
deep cycle) a couple of the batteries had bad cells in the last month and
had to be replaced so I suspect the pack is most likely on it's last season
and am thinking of what I should replace them with.
Is the lead acid still the cheapest? and Based on my past record is that
typical of the batteries to last for 3500 recharges?
Thanks
Ellery
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>
> If it was me and a 300ZX was all I had to work with, I'd go over GVWR and
> use a Z2k. Ideally I wouldn't use a 300ZX at all. If the goal is a
> satisfying performance EV, a 3000 lb. starting weight as an ICE is too big
a
> disadvantage. You need to lose about 1000 lbs.
>
> Chris
>
>
I have to agree with Chris , the 300zx is heavy , If you really like the car
and aren't looking for speed then ok , My old Mercury lynx with just 20 golf
cart batteries and a Curtis would have blown away the 300zx that I just did
, in both speed and distance , . Hay , why not come to Florida and try out a
few EVs , My Porsche 924 has 18 orbital , you could drive them both :-) ,
Steve Clunn
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<<I have seen 399 Hp at 750 plus from one of those Duramax Trucks.
On a Dyno.... Turbo Tech's Dyno in Tacoma , Wa for real Hp. I helped tie it
to the hardpoints on the Dyno.
Holy S!!! . I don't like GM anything, But the Duramax and the Allison tranny
are my Fav for real hard work.>>
I've seen well over 1000 HP from a Cummins (Dodge truck). Strictly bold-on
power too. The Cummins is superior to anything GM, Ford, etc. has.
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Hi Steve, you know I have been running these batteries for two years and still
do not have an amp meter on the system. I am going by the amp meter on my
charger when I tried running the motor directly from the charger and it showed
150 -175 amps, also if I try to flood without charging I can get only 3 before
they discharge, so I am guessing that the draw is somewhere between 150 to 200
amps for 10 minutes.
On my newer conversion I hope to get a better monitoring system, mostly I am in
the designing mode (Trial and error) and the need for battery monitoring seems
less important then just getting the machine to work. Always things to do
bfn
Ellery
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