EV Digest 4068
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: pusher trailer info
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: data acquisition kit info
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: pusher trailer info
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) The Lectra comes home on a Harbor Freight cycle carrier I designed.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Piranha Battery Test
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Solar trike (open-source project)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Zinc batteries that get consumed
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The Lectra comes home on a Harbor Freight cycle carrier I designed.
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Control question
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Control question
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Control question
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Hub Motors, have anyone used these yet? wasRe: Control question
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Control question
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Hub Motors, have anyone used these yet? wasRe: Control question
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Control question
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:After the engine starts and comes up to
speed, you now switch back to the
IGNITION POSITION, turn on the R-Terminal (or Regulator), the alternator now
excites and provides 12 volt power to all loads and CHARGES THE BATTERY FROM
NEG TO POS. The battery is not being used while it is charging or a
alternator is connected to it.
A motor generator unit, can run a EV motor and charge the battery at the
same time. The battery does not provide any current while it is charging.
Roland
The above is not true. I think it was stated in a later reply, but if the
alternator in your ICE vehicle falls behind, because of too much electrical
load in the vehicle, the battery will step in and suppliment the vehicles
electrical needs. It's all determined by the voltage of the electrical system.
If it's above approx 12 volts, the alternator is charging the battery and
supplying current to the electrical system. If the system voltage is around 12
volts, the alternator is barely keeping up with the load, and not charging the
battery. If the system drops below 12 volts, the battery as well as the
alternator are supplying current to the car's electrical system.
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
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--- Begin Message ---
> I saw a booth at EVS20 by a chinese company that had a
> zinc battery on a bicycle. The one battery was about
> the size of a large car battery, it had preformed zinc
> plates that hung in the tank of the battery. By the
> end of it's use the zinc plates where nothing but mush
> oat the bottom of the tank. They said you just needed
> to add new plates to continue. No one in the booth had
> a good command of english so I'm not certain I got the
> whole story. I'm sure the mush would have to go to
> some sort of smelter to be used again as there was
> nothing left of the plates for the zinc to plate back
> onto. they had a range of like a hundred miles on the
> bicycle. but it seemed more of a sidenote than a
> practical technology...
>
> Gadget
At EVS12 (in Anaheim) I spoke with the exhibitors at the Deutscher Pfosten
(sic?) (German Mail Service) display - they were using zinc-air for a large
fleet, and used centralized processing (they weren't even interested in its
implimentation on an individual owner basis). They traded out renewed cells and
sent the used ones off to get regenerated. I don't know if they still have these
vehicles in use, since that was 8 years ago, when EV1's were available for
lease!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Foster>
> http://www.kitsrus.com/kits.html#k118 shows you the schematic, specs and
> download SW.
>
Roger
> Stockton designed a multiplexer for me so I can cycle and test up to 32
> NiCad cells.
how is this multiplexer taking the 32 cell info and getting it logged? are
the 32 cells hooked in series , if so how did you get your isolation. //?
And he's writing the SW. And fixed my assembly fuckup
> (switched the only 2 IC's - I'm a most uncommon idiot.) Roger's such a
> great guy!
>
>
Maybe one of you great guys will come up with a BMS for sale and make some
money>) Here's what I;m looking forward to It will plug into the internet ,
where all the information from the days drive will be compared and analyzed
in the hopes of finding and giving the best battery care possible . This
information will be fed back into the charger which will perform the "at
that time believed best charging plan" out side temp , battery temp ,
battery age , battery histroy , all saved , stored , and analyzed , . any
weak cells with be addressed and noted , weak cells would be boosted by the
BMS while driving and put on a rehabilitation plan , all done my the BMS ,
. all cells ah could be seen , and recorded. When I get in my car a screen
with tell my what I wnat to know," good morinign , your batteries are fine
", 100's of cars BSM's linked together sharing data and constantly twicking
there charging plan , to get the most life out of them .
Well I'm just dreaning here ,
Steve clunn
-John Foster
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Steve Clunn
> Sent: January 31, 2005 6:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: data acquisition kit info
>
>
> Lee, (or anyone ) awhile back you posted about getting a acquisition
> kit
> from www.mpja.com or Marlin p jones . I was looking at there 4-input
> 8418-KT ,
> available for $55 . I don't remember which one you talked about or in
> the
> end what you did with it . I am thinking about using opto couplers (for
> the
> isolation) set up to measure voltage on four batteries in a traction
> pack .
> I am also thinking about putting a heat sensor on each one , and logging
> that also ( it says 8 multiplexed analog inputs) . The inputs are 0 to 4
> volts but as I'll be using the opto couplers I'll have to have some king
> of
> power supply on the output side of the opto couplers and resistors to
> make
> the output right and a 10v ziner diode and resistor on the input as will
> only be interested in 10 to 15v range . any thoughs
> Steve clunn
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "D Franklin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: pusher trailer info
>
>
> Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:After the engine starts and comes up
> to
> speed, you now switch back to the
> IGNITION POSITION, turn on the R-Terminal (or Regulator), the alternator
> now
> excites and provides 12 volt power to all loads and CHARGES THE BATTERY
> FROM
> NEG TO POS. The battery is not being used while it is charging or a
> alternator is connected to it.
>
> A motor generator unit, can run a EV motor and charge the battery at the
> same time. The battery does not provide any current while it is charging.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> The above is not true. I think it was stated in a later reply, but if the
> alternator in your ICE vehicle falls behind, because of too much
> electrical load in the vehicle, the battery will step in and suppliment
> the vehicles electrical needs. It's all determined by the voltage of the
> electrical system. If it's above approx 12 volts, the alternator is
> charging the battery and supplying current to the electrical system. If
> the system voltage is around 12 volts, the alternator is barely keeping up
> with the load, and not charging the battery. If the system drops below 12
> volts, the battery as well as the alternator are supplying current to the
> car's electrical system.
>
You just said, AND NOT CHARGING THE BATTERY.
That's correct, it is not charging the battery while the battery is
supplying the load. That's what I said in my first statement. The
alternator supplies the current to all of the 12 volt load and charges the
battery. When the battery is not charging, of which you just said in the
above statement, then the battery can supply some of the load.
You cannot make electricity flow both ways at the same time in side a
battery. Its either going to be discharging or charging.
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are some pictures of the Lectra and the carrier I made from two Harbor
Freight items. A 500 pound carrier and the 1000 pound ramp. Each ramp
holds 500 pounds. I bolted one ramp on the carrier and put a piece of wood
in the middle and reversed on to the hooks to stop the bike from jumping off
the rack while loading. The other ramp gets the bike on the carrier. A
couple of safety stands stablize one side of the rack while loading for
safety. The Lectra is around 450 lb. The rack is 50 lb. It cost me 80
bucks to build plus a little for hooks and fender washers and such. $6.99
for four very strong tiedowns. One shows the bike sans the motor(groan)
Harbor Freight has several racks and ramps. Online you can get things not
available from the retail store. They have one 500 pound rack for $29.00 a
real bargain.
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra1.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra2.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra3.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra4.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra5.JPG
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Changing the slurry is just relocating the place where the battery is
charged. Outside the battery. The refueling process is very fast doing it
this way. Very convienent. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
I suspect you are correct. From the data that was on
their website it appeared that the Zinc Oxide,the
result of discharging the Zinc/KOH mixture could be
re-separated by placing a charge into the same cell
that a charge was removed from. Very much sounded like
a battery at the time. However to hasten the recharge
they would pump out the Zinc Oxide and refuel with the
Zinc/KOH mixture there by creating a recharged cell
without plugging in. The filling Station purposed
could be hooked up to any electrical power source and
recharge the Zinc Oxide to Zinc/KOH for reuse. I don't
know what they used for plates to pull the energy,
however I suspect if you had a Zinc/KOH or Zinc/Air
battery you could recharge it just like a regular
battery except you would circulate the fluid for both
Charge and discharge.
I do not know how fast the conversion took place.
I wish I knew how to build one to test out. As Zinc is
an abundant and easily obtained mineral. KOH is simple
to obtain as well. Unfortunately I know know his
design or what plates he used. But I believe you are
correct and owners where attempting to pull a silicon
chip type revolution in Batteries with the label Fuel
Cell.
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The big problem with Zinc Air is the refueling
structure and the companies
all trying to control it. Greed is what is killing
Zinc Air. LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
>I attempted to get hold of them a while back. The
> spec's looked good but their plans had holes the
size
> of the moon. They were basing off of main stream
> acceptance and a refueling structure that was non
> exsistant. Had they proposed it as a battery
instead
> and sold to EV'er I think they would have done
quite
> well. They only wanted to sell to Auto OEM's which
> didn't want electric vehicle in the first place.
>
>
> --- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> > Another company bites the dust. Zinc air is a
>> great technology.
>>
>> Maybe for batteries....
>>
>> > Metallic Power was developing zinc fuel cell
>> technology, and had
>> > raised over $40M in venture
funding...<SNIP>...but
>> had been unable to
>> > manufacture it economically.
>>
>> Another example that throwing large sums of money
at
>> fool cells will not
>> automagically make them cheap to produce.
>>
>> How much could have been accomplished if that
$40M
>> had been spent on
>> pure battery technology development? It's
>> heartbreaking, really. There
>> is SO MUCH money available to throw at fool
cells,
>> yet companies that
>> are PROVING that BEV technology is reliable,
>> practical, and cost
>> effective (with volume production) continue to
>> scrape by on tablescraps
>> with no big investment in the space.
>>
>> -Ken Trough
>> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
>> http://visforvoltage.com
>> AIM - ktrough
>> FAX - 801-749-7807
>> message - 866-872-8901
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm revved, I got to play mad scientist tonight, helping my son do
his science project.
These are our first preliminary results.
Credit where credit is due: I got the idea for testing batteries like
this from reading Lee Hart and Rich Rudman posts.
I have been intrigued by the idea of using many little RC nicads or
Nimh batteries for my conversion. Internet lore says Sanyos are by
far the best (3.4 mohm resistance for a C cell). They are also
expensive. So we gave some much cheaper "Piranha" batteries a test.
Equipment:
Voltmeter
Clamp-on ammeter
2 car driving lights
2 Piranha Nicad 1.9 Ahr, 6 cell packs
30 minute charger, does 2 packs at once
Discharge through 1 light to 12 volts (manufacturer's recommended
cutoff voltage).
~5 Amps for 14 minutes for 1.2 Ahr. Battery cool.
Discharge through 2 lights to 12 volts:
~9.5 Amps for 10 minutes for 1.6 Ahr. Battery hot to touch.
In another measurement (Dad having fun on his own now) I toggled
between 1 and 2 lights a few times. I measured a resistance of 7.5
mohm per battery (twice what Sanyo claims for their battery). If you
scaled that up by weight and voltage to an Orbital, it would have a
resistance of about 4.4 mohm, meaning a theoretical power about 2/3
of an Orbital.
Caveats:
These were the first two cycles, the batteries might do better as
they break in.
Some of the heating may have been due to rapid charging (although
they felt cool after charging).
Since nicads don't suffer from cold as much as other chemistries, I
can keep them cool with ice for higher currents.
After the project is over, I want to try more testing using the car
as a load (put the nicads in place of the car battery). I think it'll
be fun, but I'll force myself to wait so I don't blow up my son's
batteries before the science fair.
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Saw an article on this in February's Wired (hardcopy was laying around at work):
http://www.solarvehicles.org/pages/1/
Makes ya wonder what these hosers do when the Great White North becomes just
that (white, that is, and cold, too), eh?! Great use of scrounged items.
P.S. - Same Wired issue clued me in to FireFox, so I am now IE-free and lovin'
it!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hell I'm paying 8 cents discount at night. It would be worth it for a car
if they could deliver that much to me. Wait a second. What am I saying?
Yet again another Zinc Air manufacturer trying to propriatize charging.
Ba$tards. I'd rather just buy an electrolizer. I'm sure that is all it
is........You wouldn't send your batteries to Rudman and have him charge
them. Same thing. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zinc batteries that get consumed
I saw a booth at EVS20 by a chinese company that had a zinc battery on a
bicycle. The one battery was about the size of a large car battery, it
had preformed zinc plates that hung in the tank of the battery. By the
end of it's use the zinc plates where nothing but mush
oat the bottom of the tank. They said you just needed to add new plates
to continue.
I remember this booth and spoke with the company president at length,
though I don't recall seeing the cells built into a bicycle.
I don't have the company name in front of me (I'm mobile at the moment),
but these guys were marketing the product to locations where there was no
electrical infrastructure, but UPS delivery. If someone REALLY wants the
data, I'll dig it up when I am back at the office.
The idea was that you install a bank of these to power your house, then
when the plates are dissolved, you collect the slurry and trade it for new
plates to install. UPS would pick up the used slurry containers and
deliver new plates which would then revitalize your batteries.
Even with the cost of reconsituting the plates and international shipping,
they were quoting something like 11 cents a KWh. They were selling the
electrons, not the batteries.
Kind of an awkward way to do things, but maybe it really is cost effective
for some remote locations not serviced by the grid infrastructure.
It certainly was a novel approach.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...in reference to Zinc-Air batts, here is a story regarding their use...
and below is a link to the company that makes them and their EV-related
business...
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/uav-05l.html
Arotech's Batteries To Develop Zinc-Air Batteries For UAVs
New York (SPX) Jan 31, 2005
Arotech Corporation has announced that its Batteries and Power Systems
Division has received a second development contract from a major US
agency. Under the contract, Arotech's Electric Fuel Battery Corporation
subsidiary will develop prototype zinc-air batteries for small unmanned
aerial vehicles (UAVs) to achieve extended flight times. The funding is
expected to cover development costs.
Arotech has previously announced contracts with an Israeli Defense Agency
to develop prototype zinc-air batteries for Micro Aerial Vehicles (MAVs)
and has demonstrated that its 4th generation zinc-air batteries achieve
longer mission durations than that of high performance Lithium batteries.
In addition, this novel technology is being funded separately by BAA and
Plus Up frameworks.
"We have developed very high-power, lightweight batteries from our most
advanced zinc-air cells, to extend the flight time of small UAVs and
MAVs," said Robert S. Ehrlich, Arotech Chairman and CEO.
"The Unmanned Aerial Vehicle market is growing and we are excited by the
success of our 4th generation technology to extend flight times of these
vehicles."
-------
http://www.electric-fuel.com/ev/index.shtml
About the Electric Vehicle Division
The Electric Vehicle Divsion's mission is to bring about the deployment of
commercial numbers of zero-emission zinc-air electric buses in fleets of
transit systems and school districts, providing zero-emission
transportation at reasonable costs.
Electric Fuel's revolutionary zinc-air fuel cell technology has been
demonstrated in tens of thousands of kilometers of on-road driving in
vehicles ranging in size up to 4.8 ton delivery vans in the service of
European postal systems.
Phase IV of the FTA Zero emission zinc-air bus project, announced in
September 2003, is dedicated to exploring the steps necessary for
commercializing the all-electric zinc-air/ultracapacitor hybrid bus. In
August 2004, a performance evaluation test will take place in Rome, New
York. During the frst three phases in 2001, 2002 and 2003, milestones and
various performance tests and on road bus demonstrations were successfully
completed. A demonstration of the all-electric bus in Albany, NY, on
November 6, 2003 marked the finalization of Phase III of the Zinc-Air All
Electric Transit Bus program.
And in Germany, the zinc-air electric van consortium has completed its
multi-year government-funded program by successfully demonstrating the
zinc-air van on-road. Consortium organizers expressed hopes that the
program will lead to the future commercialization of high performance,
clean electric transportation based on these technologies.
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I don't seem to recognize those batteries Lawrence, what are you using and
what voltage? Looks like a nice fit up. Too bad about that motor, sure you
will get it going again tho. Hope you didn't hurt the body work.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:26 PM
Subject: The Lectra comes home on a Harbor Freight cycle carrier I designed.
> Here are some pictures of the Lectra and the carrier I made from two
Harbor
> Freight items. A 500 pound carrier and the 1000 pound ramp. Each ramp
> holds 500 pounds. I bolted one ramp on the carrier and put a piece of
wood
> in the middle and reversed on to the hooks to stop the bike from jumping
off
> the rack while loading. The other ramp gets the bike on the carrier. A
> couple of safety stands stablize one side of the rack while loading for
> safety. The Lectra is around 450 lb. The rack is 50 lb. It cost me 80
> bucks to build plus a little for hooks and fender washers and such. $6.99
> for four very strong tiedowns. One shows the bike sans the motor(groan)
> Harbor Freight has several racks and ramps. Online you can get things not
> available from the retail store. They have one 500 pound rack for $29.00
a
> real bargain.
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra1.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra2.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra3.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra4.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Lectratow/Lectra5.JPG
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My wife and I were going through some old Mother Earth News and Popular
Science magazines and we came across an old add for the Max IV. This is
an amphibious 6 wheel drive gizmo powered by a small gasoline engine.
I've always thought they were neat and got to thinking about "Hey, that
would be a neat EV". Now I have no intention of converting one to
electric, those things are EXPENSIVE but I got to thinking about
building a little 6wheel go cart/street runner.
As a thought exercise I said Ok, lets say it has six small hub motors
like they sell here:
http://goldenmotor.com/
They have a 12" 400 watt motor that would be perfect.
So we have six of these Now in theory, the front two wheels COULD be
turned like a conventional go cart/car, but I got to thinking about
tanks and how they are so maneuverable.
How would you do that?
I know I would need a motor controller for each side of the vehicle. All
of the motors on each side would be wired parallel (switching series
parallel would be nice but I can't see how to do it with six).
So that is two motor controllers, but how does one convert information
from a joystick (or any other control for that matter) to the apropriate
command on the wheels?
The MAX has two handles one left, one right, and each one makes the
wheels of that side go either forward, still, or reverse.
Could something lieke that work?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hey james
this is a great idea
it would make a really cool vehicle
there is only one minor issue
"I got to
> thinking about
> tanks and how they are so maneuverable."
what ?
have you ever driven a tank ?
on any surface other than mud they drive like a
shopping cart with a broken wheel
tank steering operates in three ways
skid steer - you brake the one side of the tracks
whilst keeping power to the other side
power steer - more power to one side than the other
oposite steer where one track goes forward and one
back resulting in spinning on the spot
various tanks and other tracked vehicles work on one
or all of these principles
the problem is as i'm sure you've guessed with the
word "skid"
the result of running one side at a different speed to
the other results in shear force across the track
if you build your buggy for off road slow speed use no
problem but if you try and drive on the road you will
find the force needed to overcome the friction between
tyre and asphalt will be more than your motors produce
!
your tyres will quickly scrub out also.
best bet is to drive the rear four wheels and steer
the front two
for this set up with hub motors you get the added
bonus of natural differential action ( you will still
have some tyre scrub but not as much)
get you tools out and build this thing !!
regards
reb
link to example of my own lame electric vehicle idea
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
--- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> My wife and I were going through some old Mother
> Earth News and Popular
> Science magazines and we came across an old add for
> the Max IV. This is
> an amphibious 6 wheel drive gizmo powered by a small
> gasoline engine.
>
> I've always thought they were neat and got to
> thinking about "Hey, that
> would be a neat EV". Now I have no intention of
> converting one to
> electric, those things are EXPENSIVE but I got to
> thinking about
> building a little 6wheel go cart/street runner.
>
> As a thought exercise I said Ok, lets say it has six
> small hub motors
> like they sell here:
>
> http://goldenmotor.com/
>
> They have a 12" 400 watt motor that would be
> perfect.
>
> So we have six of these Now in theory, the front two
> wheels COULD be
> turned like a conventional go cart/car, but I got to
> thinking about
> tanks and how they are so maneuverable.
>
> How would you do that?
>
> I know I would need a motor controller for each side
> of the vehicle. All
> of the motors on each side would be wired parallel
> (switching series
> parallel would be nice but I can't see how to do it
> with six).
>
> So that is two motor controllers, but how does one
> convert information
> from a joystick (or any other control for that
> matter) to the apropriate
> command on the wheels?
>
> The MAX has two handles one left, one right, and
> each one makes the
> wheels of that side go either forward, still, or
> reverse.
>
> Could something lieke that work?
>
> James
>
>
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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--- Begin Message ---
> tanks and how they are so maneuverable."
> what ?
> have you ever driven a tank ?
This is true about tanks and the vichel your talking about but you can have
the maneuverable of a tank without the "dragging the wheels sideways accross
the surface action" . My lawn mower works this way . It has two big wheel
which most of the weight is ballanced on , each one has its own hydrilic
motor and can go either idrection and controller by a lever . In the front
the are two wheel on a kind of caster that spin aroun free. put one lever
forward and one back and you spin around lit a top . Its still lots of fun
to drive even afte 20 years ,:,-) . would be easy to make as no steering
needed and could use one wheel in the front. I don't know how stable it
would be a speeds over 15 mph .
steve clunn , oh it called a dixie chopper , " the fastest lawn mower made"
so they say.
> on any surface other than mud they drive like a
> shopping cart with a broken wheel
> tank steering operates in three ways
> skid steer - you brake the one side of the tracks
> whilst keeping power to the other side
> power steer - more power to one side than the other
> oposite steer where one track goes forward and one
> back resulting in spinning on the spot
> various tanks and other tracked vehicles work on one
> or all of these principles
> the problem is as i'm sure you've guessed with the
> word "skid"
> the result of running one side at a different speed to
> the other results in shear force across the track
> if you build your buggy for off road slow speed use no
> problem but if you try and drive on the road you will
> find the force needed to overcome the friction between
> tyre and asphalt will be more than your motors produce
> !
> your tyres will quickly scrub out also.
> best bet is to drive the rear four wheels and steer
> the front two
> for this set up with hub motors you get the added
> bonus of natural differential action ( you will still
> have some tyre scrub but not as much)
> get you tools out and build this thing !!
> regards
> reb
> link to example of my own lame electric vehicle idea
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
>
>
> --- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > My wife and I were going through some old Mother
> > Earth News and Popular
> > Science magazines and we came across an old add for
> > the Max IV. This is
> > an amphibious 6 wheel drive gizmo powered by a small
> > gasoline engine.
> >
> > I've always thought they were neat and got to
> > thinking about "Hey, that
> > would be a neat EV". Now I have no intention of
> > converting one to
> > electric, those things are EXPENSIVE but I got to
> > thinking about
> > building a little 6wheel go cart/street runner.
> >
> > As a thought exercise I said Ok, lets say it has six
> > small hub motors
> > like they sell here:
> >
> > http://goldenmotor.com/
> >
> > They have a 12" 400 watt motor that would be
> > perfect.
> >
> > So we have six of these Now in theory, the front two
> > wheels COULD be
> > turned like a conventional go cart/car, but I got to
> > thinking about
> > tanks and how they are so maneuverable.
> >
> > How would you do that?
> >
> > I know I would need a motor controller for each side
> > of the vehicle. All
> > of the motors on each side would be wired parallel
> > (switching series
> > parallel would be nice but I can't see how to do it
> > with six).
> >
> > So that is two motor controllers, but how does one
> > convert information
> > from a joystick (or any other control for that
> > matter) to the apropriate
> > command on the wheels?
> >
> > The MAX has two handles one left, one right, and
> > each one makes the
> > wheels of that side go either forward, still, or
> > reverse.
> >
> > Could something lieke that work?
> >
> > James
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi James and All,
--- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > http://goldenmotor.com/
Has any one bought from these people and
used these yet. They have very good prices and looks
like mini e teks. I'm really interested if they are
legit.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
PS , James, these types of vehicles are very hard
on wheels, the ground when turning as Richard said so
be careful. Much better would be a regular turning
unit with say 2-4 fixed front or rear wheels and a
single steering wheel attached to a dinghy or other
body.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Why are there like 15 different AC motor choices? What are
> those motor/controller/gearboxes currently used for in the
> industry(non ev)? Is it possible to get an AC car in the
> "100 mph club"?
David Dymaxion wrote:
> Even better, an AC EV has gone 315 mph on the Salt Flats.
I'm also way impressed with the above accomplishment, but keep in mind, the
original
question was about the '100 mph club', established for acceleration and trap
speed in a
scant 1/4 mile, from a standstill to 100 or more. The streamliner would get
its butt
toasted in the 1/4 mile because it's not designed for that type of run, just as
any of the
100 mph club EVs would surely get toasted by the streamliner in a top speed
run, for the
same reason.
Getting back to the original question 'Is it possible to get an AC car in the
"100 mph
club"?', the answer is of course! The tZero should be able to do it, but it has
to be done
under NHRA and NEDRA rules to be official. I wish they would, as to date, no AC
machine
has.
> Is saying an 8" or 9" are "small blocks" and the 11" and 13"
> are "big blocks" accurate?
>
>
I'd say, yes.
>Do the 8" and 9" motors redline at like 5,000rpm?
No. My twin Warfield 8's are the ones the Warp 8's were designed after. I hand
picked all
the parts that went into my race car's motors, and also insisted on extra
Kevlar wrap and
high speed balancing. I spin them up to 6447 rpms when pulling 101 mph, with no
problems
at all. They 'should' be good for an easy 7000 rpm, and maybe more. I intend to
take them
up to 7022 rpm as I shoot for low 12's and 110 mph in the 1/4 mile this year,
hopefully,
pushed by a new lighter pack of powerful 26 ahr Hawker batteries at 336V. To
make 101 mph
in the 1/4 mile, the motors are hit with 186 kw of power at 6447 rpm....249 hp
of
electrical energy going into the motors, and who knows what, actually coming
out of them.
If things work out well this year and I get the Hawkers, well over 300
'delivered hp'
should be on tap into a lightened White Zombie, down from its 240V Orbital
powered
version's ~ 2550 lb. weight, to closer to 2300 lbs....should be fun!
If things don't work out as planned, it's still loaded up with 288V of
Orbitals, and
though downright porky at over 2700 lbs., it should still be able to run a 12.7
-12.8 @
103-104 mph.
Oh yeah....uh hmmmmmm......as to Otmar cleaning my clock at Woodburn last year,
it's true,
he did! However, after working through all sorts of problems and fighting with
sleepy
batteries, White Zombie did finally run a 13.6 @ 94 mph, to qualify as the
quickest
electric car for the day.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
good point steve
i have some concerns as you do about high speed
control
please fit a motor capable of around 50mph
test it on the road and let us know how much injury
you sustain when it tips over
best wishes
reb
--- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > tanks and how they are so maneuverable."
> > what ?
> > have you ever driven a tank ?
>
> This is true about tanks and the vichel your talking
> about but you can have
> the maneuverable of a tank without the "dragging the
> wheels sideways accross
> the surface action" . My lawn mower works this way .
> It has two big wheel
> which most of the weight is ballanced on , each one
> has its own hydrilic
> motor and can go either idrection and controller by
> a lever . In the front
> the are two wheel on a kind of caster that spin
> aroun free. put one lever
> forward and one back and you spin around lit a top .
> Its still lots of fun
> to drive even afte 20 years ,:,-) . would be easy
> to make as no steering
> needed and could use one wheel in the front. I don't
> know how stable it
> would be a speeds over 15 mph .
> steve clunn , oh it called a dixie chopper , " the
> fastest lawn mower made"
> so they say.
>
> > on any surface other than mud they drive like a
> > shopping cart with a broken wheel
> > tank steering operates in three ways
> > skid steer - you brake the one side of the tracks
> > whilst keeping power to the other side
> > power steer - more power to one side than the
> other
> > oposite steer where one track goes forward and one
> > back resulting in spinning on the spot
> > various tanks and other tracked vehicles work on
> one
> > or all of these principles
> > the problem is as i'm sure you've guessed with the
> > word "skid"
> > the result of running one side at a different
> speed to
> > the other results in shear force across the track
> > if you build your buggy for off road slow speed
> use no
> > problem but if you try and drive on the road you
> will
> > find the force needed to overcome the friction
> between
> > tyre and asphalt will be more than your motors
> produce
> > !
> > your tyres will quickly scrub out also.
> > best bet is to drive the rear four wheels and
> steer
> > the front two
> > for this set up with hub motors you get the added
> > bonus of natural differential action ( you will
> still
> > have some tyre scrub but not as much)
> > get you tools out and build this thing !!
> > regards
> > reb
> > link to example of my own lame electric vehicle
> idea
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
> >
> >
> > --- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > My wife and I were going through some old Mother
> > > Earth News and Popular
> > > Science magazines and we came across an old add
> for
> > > the Max IV. This is
> > > an amphibious 6 wheel drive gizmo powered by a
> small
> > > gasoline engine.
> > >
> > > I've always thought they were neat and got to
> > > thinking about "Hey, that
> > > would be a neat EV". Now I have no intention of
> > > converting one to
> > > electric, those things are EXPENSIVE but I got
> to
> > > thinking about
> > > building a little 6wheel go cart/street runner.
> > >
> > > As a thought exercise I said Ok, lets say it has
> six
> > > small hub motors
> > > like they sell here:
> > >
> > > http://goldenmotor.com/
> > >
> > > They have a 12" 400 watt motor that would be
> > > perfect.
> > >
> > > So we have six of these Now in theory, the front
> two
> > > wheels COULD be
> > > turned like a conventional go cart/car, but I
> got to
> > > thinking about
> > > tanks and how they are so maneuverable.
> > >
> > > How would you do that?
> > >
> > > I know I would need a motor controller for each
> side
> > > of the vehicle. All
> > > of the motors on each side would be wired
> parallel
> > > (switching series
> > > parallel would be nice but I can't see how to do
> it
> > > with six).
> > >
> > > So that is two motor controllers, but how does
> one
> > > convert information
> > > from a joystick (or any other control for that
> > > matter) to the apropriate
> > > command on the wheels?
> > >
> > > The MAX has two handles one left, one right, and
> > > each one makes the
> > > wheels of that side go either forward, still, or
> > > reverse.
> > >
> > > Could something lieke that work?
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
___________________________________________________________
> > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> more fun!
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
=====
Regards
Richard
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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--- Begin Message ---
just as a thought on the steering have you thought of
six wheel steering ?
makes parking easy !
--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi James and All,
> --- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > http://goldenmotor.com/
> Has any one bought from these people and
> used these yet. They have very good prices and looks
> like mini e teks. I'm really interested if they are
> legit.
> Thanks,
> jerry dycus
> PS , James, these types of vehicles are very hard
> on wheels, the ground when turning as Richard said
> so
> be careful. Much better would be a regular turning
> unit with say 2-4 fixed front or rear wheels and a
> single steering wheel attached to a dinghy or other
> body.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
> Learn more.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
=====
Regards
Richard
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2005-02-01 at 06:30 -0800, John Wayland wrote:
> pushed by a new lighter pack of powerful 26 ahr Hawker batteries at 336V. To
> make 101 mph
> in the 1/4 mile, the motors are hit with 186 kw of power at 6447 rpm....249
> hp of
> electrical energy going into the motors, and who knows what, actually coming
> out of them.
> If things work out well this year and I get the Hawkers, well over 300
> 'delivered hp'
> should be on tap into a lightened White Zombie, down from its 240V Orbital
> powered
> version's ~ 2550 lb. weight, to closer to 2300 lbs....should be fun!
Heh.. if we are wishing. How about my wish that John will put the
Zombie on a dyno and actually measure RWHP instead of just guessing.
Real world motor numbers would be really helpful in calculating shaft HP
and torque for certain motor/controller/battery combinations. Once the
EV community has reasonable guesses on those numbers we can make speed
and accelerations estimates based on driveline ratios and weight.
I still haven't dyno'd my MR2 (need to figure out how to charge once I
get to the dyno site).. so I should probably keep my mouth shut.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something neat with hub motors is you could turn the wheels all the
way sideways and do a U turn in the vehicle's length.
--- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> best bet is to drive the rear four wheels and steer
> the front two
> for this set up with hub motors you get the added
> bonus of natural differential action ( you will still
> have some tyre scrub but not as much)
> ...
> --- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > My wife and I were going through some old Mother
> > Earth News and Popular
> > Science magazines and we came across an old add for
> > the Max IV. This is
> > an amphibious 6 wheel drive gizmo powered by a small
> > gasoline engine.
> >
> > I've always thought they were neat and got to
> > thinking about "Hey, that
> > would be a neat EV". Now I have no intention of
> > converting one to
> > electric, those things are EXPENSIVE but I got to
> > thinking about
> > building a little 6wheel go cart/street runner.
> >
> > As a thought exercise I said Ok, lets say it has six
> > small hub motors
> > like they sell here:
> >
> > http://goldenmotor.com/
> >
> > They have a 12" 400 watt motor that would be
> > perfect.
> >
> > So we have six of these Now in theory, the front two
> > wheels COULD be
> > turned like a conventional go cart/car, but I got to
> > thinking about
> > tanks and how they are so maneuverable.
> >
> > How would you do that?
> >
> > I know I would need a motor controller for each side
> > of the vehicle. All
> > of the motors on each side would be wired parallel
> > (switching series
> > parallel would be nice but I can't see how to do it
> > with six).
> >
> > So that is two motor controllers, but how does one
> > convert information
> > from a joystick (or any other control for that
> > matter) to the apropriate
> > command on the wheels?
> >
> > The MAX has two handles one left, one right, and
> > each one makes the
> > wheels of that side go either forward, still, or
> > reverse.
> >
> > Could something lieke that work?
=====
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