EV Digest 4084
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: tire growth
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: tire growth
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 500A battery load tester
by Gordon G Schaeffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re:Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 500A battery load tester
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Attack Life, It Will Kill You Anyway
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Chico EAA meeting Sat. Feb. 12th
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Attack Life, It Will Kill You Anyway
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan- suspension
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) NOTICE: Chico EAA meeting POSTPONED !!!
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, comments
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question, blower cooling & dust removal.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan- suspension
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) K&W Battery Charger with Step Up Transformer for sale! eBay auction.
by "Jeff Dobereiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:51 AM
Subject: RE: tire growth
> You really mean that a Goodyear or BF Goodrich street tire (not a slick)
> will grow 2.5 to 4 inches in diameter ?
>
> Sorry, as I said before, a slick is built to do that, to alter the gear
> ratio and improve the performance figures, specially the max speed.
>
> But street tires, specially steel belted radials, simply cannot do it.
>
> Ivo.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre
> de Rich Rudman
> Enviado el: martes, 08 de febrero de 2005 19:56
> Para: [email protected]
> Asunto: Re: tire growth
>
> I don't consider 2.5 to 4 inches of total tire growth Little or
> unmeasurable.
> In fact it's quite critical for final motor RPM and trap speed
calculations.
> When we are all touching Rev limits or the highest speeds we dare...
knowing
> the Mach number of our Comm Bars is a nice data point.
>
Like Duhh! Ivo.
The shot of Dennis's rail is not about street tires.
Dot legal street tires, don't grow worth a darn. Yea I know.
But Anyone running true slicks and wrinkle walls CAN take advantage of this
fact. Rod's RX7 comes to mind since he does have tubbed fenders and slicks
on it already.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
>
> And, Exide specs the 34XCD at a max of 1100A for 5sec, so while Rich has
> observed 1850A briefly it might be unwise to count on that level of
> performance from every Orbital you might encounter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>
We did the Orb at 1800 amps plus for 10 seconds, no fails. Spikes were
observed over 2000 amps. It's safe to say a XCD34 in mint condition with a
couple break in cycles can make 1800 amps.
And by the looks, with the over head we had, most should pull to this amp
point with out dropping under 6 volts. Oh Spec says 1100 for 5 seconds.. Oh
I wouldn't want to draw more than a Spec sheet allows for Now would I???
Stiff big batteries may weigh more, but they are a LOT more reliable than a
smaller super highly stressed Uber high voltage pack. A racer needs to
figure out the trade offs of a potentially more powerful pack in Watts per
lbs(Kilogram) vs making dozens of runs with boring reliabilities.
Plasma Boy has had ZERO battery issues on his 100 mph quest. I attribute
alot of his success to big Dumb works ALOT batteries. It's one thing that
you don't have to worry about at the strip. Their were a couple of years
there where blow batteries and massively unequalized packs were the
tribulation of the day.
For the life of me I don't Know why John wants to go back to this battery
hell. Paper works say lighter faster, the KISS principle, and Rudman's logic
says.. slow and steady....gets ya there without alot of carnage.
Yea John, Please don't be a Rod!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Like Duhh! Ivo.
Like Duhh! Ivo.
Like Duhh! Ivo.
Like Duhh! Ivo.
Like Duhh! Ivo.
Got me, ok I'm a dumbass, :) Slicks will do the trick. Here's a calculator
that includes the tire growth factor.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/rpmrange.html
BRIEF DESCRIPTION
BELOW:________________________________________________________________
RPM Range Computation By Bowling & Grippo
The following simple computation determines engine RPMs at interval MPH,
Tire diameter, final (differential) gear ratio, and transmission ratio
(usually 1.0 for high gear, or something like 0.7 for overdrive).
Additionally, a tire growth factor is included, which alters the tire
diameter by factor times MPH squared, useful for racing slicks. A growth
factor of zero removes the "growth" influence.
Also, for automatic transmissions, there are torque convertor "slippage"
factors which help account for RPM "loss" through the transmission. These
are entered as two sets of transmission efficiency values (percent) at given
RPMs, which are linearly interpolated. Remember, this effect RAISES the RPM,
because the engine must turn faster to compensate for the losses.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Rich Rudman
Enviado el: mi�rcoles, 09 de febrero de 2005 16:12
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: Re: tire growth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivo Jara G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:51 AM
Subject: RE: tire growth
> You really mean that a Goodyear or BF Goodrich street tire (not a slick)
> will grow 2.5 to 4 inches in diameter ?
>
> Sorry, as I said before, a slick is built to do that, to alter the gear
> ratio and improve the performance figures, specially the max speed.
>
> But street tires, specially steel belted radials, simply cannot do it.
>
> Ivo.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre
> de Rich Rudman
> Enviado el: martes, 08 de febrero de 2005 19:56
> Para: [email protected]
> Asunto: Re: tire growth
>
> I don't consider 2.5 to 4 inches of total tire growth Little or
> unmeasurable.
> In fact it's quite critical for final motor RPM and trap speed
calculations.
> When we are all touching Rev limits or the highest speeds we dare...
knowing
> the Mach number of our Comm Bars is a nice data point.
>
Like Duhh! Ivo.
The shot of Dennis's rail is not about street tires.
Dot legal street tires, don't grow worth a darn. Yea I know.
But Anyone running true slicks and wrinkle walls CAN take advantage of this
fact. Rod's RX7 comes to mind since he does have tubbed fenders and slicks
on it already.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Harbor Freight Tools, Camarillo, CA www.harborfreight.com
1-800-423-2567, has in their Catalog #3011-B that arrived yesterday a
500 amp carbon pile load tester #91129-1MPA on sale for $49.99. It has
two large battery clips with 4 gauge wire, two analog meters and a knob
to adjust the load resistance. Weight 8.7 pounds. I bought a similar
unit many years ago and found it to be quite helpful in finding a weak
battery in a string.
Gordon Schaeffer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Oh Spec says 1100 for 5 seconds.. Oh I wouldn't want
> to draw more than a Spec sheet allows for Now would I???
You ~never~ do that do you? And you would never put more than rated
amps through your motors either, right? ;^>
All I'm saying is that if the manufacturer is only rating them to 1100A
for 5s there is probably a reason for it. It could be that most of the
present production will easily exceed that level, but some won't because
the only 'guarantee' is that they will survive 1100A for 5s. Or, it
could mean that present production easily exceeds that spec, but future
production will be cost-reduced to just exceed the spec with a more
modest margin as the production process is fine-tuned. Or, it could be
that while the batteries will easily exceed this spec, doing so causes
some irreversible damage to the battery that shortens its life, etc.
I would think that *relying* on these batteries to reliably survive
close to 2x the max rated current for 2x the max rated duration is
hardly consistent with your 'slow and steady....gets ya there without a
lot of carnage' logic.
Fuses (and cell interconnects?) are rated in terms of I^2*t. 1850A for
10s is 5.7x the I^2t rating corresponding to the rated 1100A for 5s.
2000A for 10s is 6.6x the rated I^2t. This doesn't really seem
significantly different than a smaller "super highly stressed" high
voltage pack if you're looking for dozens of runs with boring
reliabilities.
Out of curiousity, how many Orbs have you held at 1850A until they
failed? How about 2000A? Do they start failing at 11s, 12s, or 10.5s?
How many have you tested to 1850A for 10s in order to be able to
conclude that *any* 34XCD ought to make this much after a few break in
cycles? (I'm not picking on you here, just trying to make the point that
you may not know just how close to the edge you are pushing these
batteries, and that you may not have tested a large enough sample to be
able to make generalisations for the entire 34XCD production.)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would one of the TEvan owners be able to take pictures of the suspension
mods, battery boxes, and battery box mounts that Mike Chancey described
earlier and post them somewhere convenient. It seems to me that once
the question is answered as to just how to achieve enough ground
clearance and what the battery box mounting looks like, it would be
possible to re engineer these items at home and convert a stock caravan.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to add to that, I recently saw a similar 500 Amp tester
here:
http://test.autometer.com/products/sb3sp.html
And also an 800 Amp version:
http://test.autometer.com/products/sb5sp.html
Digital version:
http://test.autometer.com/products/sb5dtsp.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No one has authoratatively said yes. Some say not no. I am totally
confused and went to one string on a different vehicle. Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
Quick verify: Can one run strings of flooded NiCDs in parallel?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger wrote:
>
> All I'm saying is that if the manufacturer is only rating them to 1100A
> for
> 5s there is probably a reason for it. It could be that most of the
> present
> production will easily exceed that level, but some won't because the only
> 'guarantee' is that they will survive 1100A for 5s. Or, it could mean
> that
> present production easily exceeds that spec, but future production will be
> cost-reduced to just exceed the spec with a more modest margin as the
> production process is fine-tuned. Or, it could be that while the
> batteries
> will easily exceed this spec, doing so causes some irreversible damage to
> the battery that shortens its life, etc.
>
Or, could it be that the manufacturer says the batteries will do a third
of what they're really capable of, and then will never have to honor a
warranty claim.
Then they "give" the batteries to people like Plasma Boy and Madman and
Wildeman. Who then write great things about how these batteries outperform
the factory specs. It's kind of like the factory saying they will do 2000
amps for 10 seconds, without actually saying it. Free advertising with no
financial risk.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"The reality might be weakening the field
enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to arcing
problems -- I
plan to creep up on this and find out."
The arcing may not show up until later when brush dust
accumulates. After experiancing arc over and control
failure GE had to increase the minimum field current.
Rod
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I believe the Dodge TeVan had sepex.
>
> I'm going to give sepex a try in my conversion. I'll
> let the list
> know how that goes. The theoretical benefits I see:
>
> regen
> better efficiency
> more area under the torque curve
>
> Now I just have to build an analog computer (my
> conversion) to see if
> the theory is right :) .
>
> I believe the efficiency will be better (in addition
> to regen)
> because the sepex doesn't need to do current
> multiplication. If
> losses go as I^2R, then multiplying current
> increases motor losses. I
> realize this will be a small effect as series DC is
> already pretty
> efficient.
>
> Fatter torque curve: Someone recently posted dynoing
> at 170 hp at
> 2000 rpm, and 100 hp at 5000 rpm (or something like
> that) with series
> DC. With sepex, in theory, you should be able to
> have 170 hp at 2000
> and 170 hp at 5000 rpm. The reality might be
> weakening the field
> enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to
> arcing problems -- I
> plan to creep up on this and find out.
>
> --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ...
> > But I think it could give DC a new competitive
> > edge
> > against AC as it could be done with a hellova lot
> less sillycon! Of
> > course
> > if it was so great Howcum GM didn't go that route
> with the EV 1?
> > All, hah!
> > FEW production EV's money relatively no object
> went AC.
> > ...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:31 PM
> > Subject: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question
> >
> >
> > > Is anyone working on any EV projects with
> sep-ex/shunt-wound
> > motors? I
> > rarely
> > > see any mention of them, and there are only a
> few motors for sale
> > on the
> > retail
> > > sites. The 1244 Curtis I was considering getting
> rid of is
> > 36-48V/400A -
> > would
> > > it be better to look for a golf cart place to
> sell it to rather
> > than
> > expecting
> > > someone to use it on a street vehicle (unless
> it's a motorcycle)?
> > Any idea
> > how
> > > efficient a sep-ex system is when compared to a
> similar series
> > system?
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
> Learn more.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wowee, that is really good to know, I had assumed I would be able to
"test and forget." That would be an argument for a powerful cooling
fan to blast out the dust.
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "The reality might be weakening the field
> enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to arcing
> problems -- I
> plan to creep up on this and find out."
>
> The arcing may not show up until later when brush dust
> accumulates. After experiancing arc over and control
> failure GE had to increase the minimum field current.
>
> Rod
>
> --- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I believe the Dodge TeVan had sepex.
> >
> > I'm going to give sepex a try in my conversion. I'll
> > let the list
> > know how that goes. The theoretical benefits I see:
> >
> > regen
> > better efficiency
> > more area under the torque curve
> >
> > Now I just have to build an analog computer (my
> > conversion) to see if
> > the theory is right :) .
> >
> > I believe the efficiency will be better (in addition
> > to regen)
> > because the sepex doesn't need to do current
> > multiplication. If
> > losses go as I^2R, then multiplying current
> > increases motor losses. I
> > realize this will be a small effect as series DC is
> > already pretty
> > efficient.
> >
> > Fatter torque curve: Someone recently posted dynoing
> > at 170 hp at
> > 2000 rpm, and 100 hp at 5000 rpm (or something like
> > that) with series
> > DC. With sepex, in theory, you should be able to
> > have 170 hp at 2000
> > and 170 hp at 5000 rpm. The reality might be
> > weakening the field
> > enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to
> > arcing problems -- I
> > plan to creep up on this and find out.
> >
> > --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > But I think it could give DC a new competitive
> > > edge
> > > against AC as it could be done with a hellova lot
> > less sillycon! Of
> > > course
> > > if it was so great Howcum GM didn't go that route
> > with the EV 1?
> > > All, hah!
> > > FEW production EV's money relatively no object
> > went AC.
> > > ...
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:31 PM
> > > Subject: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is anyone working on any EV projects with
> > sep-ex/shunt-wound
> > > motors? I
> > > rarely
> > > > see any mention of them, and there are only a
> > few motors for sale
> > > on the
> > > retail
> > > > sites. The 1244 Curtis I was considering getting
> > rid of is
> > > 36-48V/400A -
> > > would
> > > > it be better to look for a golf cart place to
> > sell it to rather
> > > than
> > > expecting
> > > > someone to use it on a street vehicle (unless
> > it's a motorcycle)?
> > > Any idea
> > > how
> > > > efficient a sep-ex system is when compared to a
> > similar series
> > > system?
> >
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
> > Learn more.
> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
> >
>
>
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes but at ten times the price....
Mike G.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Just to add to that, I recently saw a similar 500 Amp tester
here:
http://test.autometer.com/products/sb3sp.html
And also an 800 Amp version:
http://test.autometer.com/products/sb5sp.html
Digital version:
http://test.autometer.com/products/sb5dtsp.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who's tagline is this? I lost my note and I want to quote and give due
credit.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
or "EAA".
Learn more about:
� Electric automobiles
� How to convert a car to electric
� Hybrid automobiles
� Fuel cell powered automobiles
� Compressed natural gas automobiles
Date: Saturday, Feb. 12th from 11 am. The meeting is FREE, and all are
welcome.
Join us at Chuck Alldrin's home located at:
930 West 11th Ave
Chico, CA 95926
530-899-1835
Directions:
Go West on 11th Ave.. 1/4 mile past Holly on the North side. Look for the
black mailbox and Birch trees.
We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
our chapter.
EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
welcome.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you find it hard to believe one way or the other,
just do a test with 2 shunts and 2 E-meters and watch
the current sharing behavior. You could have the 2
shunts/E-meter always connected just in case there are
long term problems.
Then, tell us one way or the other.
Ed Ang
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No one has authoratatively said yes. Some say not
> no. I am totally
> confused and went to one string on a different
> vehicle. Lawrence Rhodes..
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:56 PM
> Subject: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
>
>
> > Quick verify: Can one run strings of flooded NiCDs
> in parallel?
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven Coallier made that quote. I believe the correct quote
was "Attack life, it's going to kill
you anyway."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
Maybe Mike can post these pictures on my TEVan
page in the EValbulm. They've been stripped for
the EVDL, but I sent them to Mike and Paul.
I added the images to Rods page, as well as a couple of the NiFe batteries
from Don Buckshot's TEVan. You can find Rod's van at:
http://evalbum.com/008.html
Here's what I found.
The TEVan manual has the 1993 service manual for
"van/wagon", "front wheel drive/all wheel drive"
Nothing special in the extra section for EV's about
modification.
I'm not sure if this applies to regular Caravan's or
if they modified
something to jack it up for battery clearance.
The specs I quoted were from the TEVan service manual, so it seems they
were modified a bit.
Lowest battery pack clearance from ground: 5.25"
I guess it's a low rider.
I have hit speed bumps if I go too fast in the parking
lot. I also avoid road kill that is sticking up too
high, most vehicles clear it, but I can get some extra
dinner for our cats stuck to the battery box if I
don't avoid it.
Rod.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chico EAA meeting for Sat. Feb. 12th is postponed !!
Due to a last minute glitch the meeting will be held on Sat. Feb. 19th this
month.
So sorry about sending two emails in such a short time.... but ... things
unforeseen do happen.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
My G-van has a big 19 long by 14 dia. Norco sep x motor with interpoles
that was originally designed for street cars. It has a chloride
controller at 212 volts. The regen is controlled by a separate pot on
the brake pedal, and works very well. The motor is connected to a one
speed gear box with a "park" lock feature, max speed is about 65.
Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Yes, regen is natural solution for mountain areas.
Christopher Zach wrote:
Good question. I have come down small mountains in MD using regen on
the Prizm; it allows one to maintain 60mph down a mountain grade with
over 100 amps (30kw) of charging to the batteries. Of course going up
the grade you will be pulling 120-140amps constant.
The biggest problem with regen is that if the batteries are full it
doesn't work.
Chris
You have to plan your route - if you leave on the mountain and heading
to work downhill every morning, you should deliberately NOT to charge
your pack completely overnight, so that the battery can accept full
regen ALL the way down. Of course, regen is no substitute for charging
(no profile, etc) so at the bottom of the hill the battery must still
be not quite full; else it will require low current equalizing and
indeed you will loose your regen.
Ideally, your regen would be smart enough to dump the energy into other
loads if the pack is full, such as cabin heating and AC.
And then lastly through a resistive heating element and dump it into the
air, same as brakes do.
Of course 30kw is a LOT of cabin heating/cooling, maybe when it hits
it's limit, it switches over to standard mechanical brakes, flashing a
light to let you know.
Has anyone mounted a temperature sensor near the brake disk to provide
overheat warnings?
Mike-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:11 PM -0800 2-9-05, Rod Hower wrote:
"The reality might be weakening the field
enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to arcing
problems -- I
plan to creep up on this and find out."
The arcing may not show up until later when brush dust
accumulates. After experiancing arc over and control
failure GE had to increase the minimum field current.
Rod
I'm just now repairing an EVcort. 108V, regen up to 150A on the
battery. Drives up to 400A. Sep Ex GE motor 11" motor. Custom Soleq
controller.
You don't get a AC powerband and I can hear the brush arcing at
higher power (there is no high power) above 3 Krpm. Sep ex gives you
no more top end power than field weakening a series motor. I'm
guessing 10 to 15% but that's just a WAG. Of course you can get more
than that at very low efficiencies but last time I did that the
Commutator bars of that golf car ended up all over the road! :-)
I think it's a nice system, and the car is very nice to drive, but as
with my previous experience with Sep Ex and Regen systems it's got
tradeoffs. Ther is no holy grail here. In this case it's a low
voltage system, there is a large blower to keep the brushes cool, and
the brushes are worn out at 12,000 miles.
Maybe if you tweak the system just right it would last..... Much
experimenting could be done...
This is not meant to discourage you. Just to put a little caution in
your goals.
Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawerence, Chris and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No one has authoratatively said yes. Some say not
> no. I am totally
> confused and went to one string on a different
> vehicle. Lawrence Rhodes..
You can run 2 or more seperate strings charging,
discharging together as long as you seperate them with
contactors or diodes while not being used, charged so
they won't discharge each other while sitting.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:56 PM
> Subject: Flooded NiCDs in parallel
>
>
> > Quick verify: Can one run strings of flooded NiCDs
> in parallel?
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Good observation. The brush motor cooling fans on
my TEVan wore the brushes down to nothing and they
stopped working. Driving on the interstate at 65MPH
(aka, field weakening mode) I noticed the van surging
and it got worse (as brush dust built up and the
blower
fans were failing).
I installed two of my high flow 24V BLDC blowers from
work. They work at 13.8Vdc but still outperform the
brush motors at this low voltage. The surging
quickly went away and motor overheating that occured
after 10 miles of driving in the summer went away.
This is also a good 'field test' for my prototype 3
phase inverter controls inside the blower.
They still run great.
Rod
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wowee, that is really good to know, I had assumed I
> would be able to
> "test and forget." That would be an argument for a
> powerful cooling
> fan to blast out the dust.
>
> --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "The reality might be weakening the field
> > enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to
> arcing
> > problems -- I
> > plan to creep up on this and find out."
> >
> > The arcing may not show up until later when brush
> dust
> > accumulates. After experiancing arc over and
> control
> > failure GE had to increase the minimum field
> current.
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > --- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I believe the Dodge TeVan had sepex.
> > >
> > > I'm going to give sepex a try in my conversion.
> I'll
> > > let the list
> > > know how that goes. The theoretical benefits I
> see:
> > >
> > > regen
> > > better efficiency
> > > more area under the torque curve
> > >
> > > Now I just have to build an analog computer (my
> > > conversion) to see if
> > > the theory is right :) .
> > >
> > > I believe the efficiency will be better (in
> addition
> > > to regen)
> > > because the sepex doesn't need to do current
> > > multiplication. If
> > > losses go as I^2R, then multiplying current
> > > increases motor losses. I
> > > realize this will be a small effect as series DC
> is
> > > already pretty
> > > efficient.
> > >
> > > Fatter torque curve: Someone recently posted
> dynoing
> > > at 170 hp at
> > > 2000 rpm, and 100 hp at 5000 rpm (or something
> like
> > > that) with series
> > > DC. With sepex, in theory, you should be able to
> > > have 170 hp at 2000
> > > and 170 hp at 5000 rpm. The reality might be
> > > weakening the field
> > > enough to get high hp at high rpm might lead to
> > > arcing problems -- I
> > > plan to creep up on this and find out.
> > >
> > > --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > But I think it could give DC a new competitive
> > > > edge
> > > > against AC as it could be done with a hellova
> lot
> > > less sillycon! Of
> > > > course
> > > > if it was so great Howcum GM didn't go that
> route
> > > with the EV 1?
> > > > All, hah!
> > > > FEW production EV's money relatively no object
> > > went AC.
> > > > ...
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "EV Discussion List"
> <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:31 PM
> > > > Subject: Sep-Ex supply-and-demand question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Is anyone working on any EV projects with
> > > sep-ex/shunt-wound
> > > > motors? I
> > > > rarely
> > > > > see any mention of them, and there are only
> a
> > > few motors for sale
> > > > on the
> > > > retail
> > > > > sites. The 1244 Curtis I was considering
> getting
> > > rid of is
> > > > 36-48V/400A -
> > > > would
> > > > > it be better to look for a golf cart place
> to
> > > sell it to rather
> > > > than
> > > > expecting
> > > > > someone to use it on a street vehicle
> (unless
> > > it's a motorcycle)?
> > > > Any idea
> > > > how
> > > > > efficient a sep-ex system is when compared
> to a
> > > similar series
> > > > system?
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> search.
> > > Learn more.
> > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page � Try My
> Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 42v AC and power steering will be a blessing.. it will eliminate
> two of the bigger hassles in conversion.
More likely, they will integrate the 12v and 42v systems in such a way
that they will be even *more* difficult to untangle from the ICE! My
prediction is that vehicles with 42v systems will be *harder* to convert
into EVs.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe Mike can post these pictures on my TEVan
page in the EValbulm. They've been stripped for
the EVDL, but I sent them to Mike and Paul.
Here's what I found.
The TEVan manual has the 1993 service manual for
"van/wagon", "front wheel drive/all wheel drive"
Nothing special in the extra section for EV's about
modification.
I'm not sure if this applies to regular Caravan's or
if they modified
something to jack it up for battery clearance.
Lowest battery pack clearance from ground: 5.25"
I guess it's a low rider.
I have hit speed bumps if I go too fast in the parking
lot. I also avoid road kill that is sticking up too
high, most vehicles clear it, but I can get some extra
dinner for our cats stuck to the battery box if I
don't avoid it.
Rod.
--- Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would one of the TEvan owners be able to take
> pictures of the suspension
> mods, battery boxes, and battery box mounts that
> Mike Chancey described
> earlier and post them somewhere convenient. It
> seems to me that once
> the question is answered as to just how to achieve
> enough ground
> clearance and what the battery box mounting looks
> like, it would be
> possible to re engineer these items at home and
> convert a stock caravan.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
>
>
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another casualty of my dad's "clean up effort." I had hoped to keep it for
a future EV project, but so it goes sometimes. It's in rough shape, and I'm
selling as is, but I think it works. Anyway, it's listed really cheap, so
go for it!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4526904936
I'm trying to make an eBay name for myself, and I figured this might be a
good way to start. After all, you guys know me already!
Happy bidding!
-Jeff
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Or, could it be that the manufacturer says the batteries will
> do a third of what they're really capable of, and then will
> never have to honor a warranty claim.
Rating them at half or even one-third of what they are really capable of
I could almost buy, but we're talking about a rating that is less than
one-fifth of what Rich is pushing them to.
*If* the batteries really are presently built capable of *reliably*
handling over 5x the rated max (I^2)t, then I expect one of two things
will happen. Either Exide will revise their max current*time spec to
capitalise on this performance advantage to sell more batteries, or they
will cost-reduce the battery so that it has a smaller safety margin and
increased profit margin. Given that 1100-1150A is about the highest
cranking rating one typically sees for a battery, I suspect that
cost-reducing the battery construction will provide a greater profit
increase than relying on a better peak amp spec selling more batteries,
and is therefore the more likely outcome.
> Then they "give" the batteries to people like Plasma Boy and
> Madman and Wildeman. Who then write great things about how
> these batteries outperform the factory specs. It's kind of
> like the factory saying they will do 2000 amps for 10
> seconds, without actually saying it. Free advertising with no
> financial risk.
Hey, anything is possible! ;^>
But, I seriously doubt this is the case. EVers make up a tiny fraction
of the demand for these batteries, so free advertising resulting from
sponsorship of EV racers is unlikely to be nearly as important to their
sales as sponsorship of high profile low-rider or competition audio
vehicles.
No sane manufacturer is going to put an extra $0.50 worth of lead into
every battery to overbuild it to this extent just to avoid a warranty
claim due to excessive amp draw. Remember, when building things in high
volume even a few cents per unit of unnecessary cost adds up quick.
$0.50/battery in extra material is $500,000 in lost profit on a million
units produced. Battery companies are quite adept at wriggling out of
honouring warrantees when they want to be, but even if they do warranty
the battery against failure from excessive current draw, and honoured
that warranty, they could replace a *lot* of ~$100 batteries and still
come out *way* ahead financially.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Even though it's not the standard behaviour, maybe this company is really
honest, and they really overbuilt just to make sure their products will
perform way over specs.
This has happened before, please remember that (for example) the pontiac GTO
judge in the early seventies was rated as a 400HP engine, and when tested on
the dyno, it cranked way over 500HP, this being the case of the Stingray,
the Yenko Camaros, and lots of others.
Another thing is that these products are designed by teams of capable people
and thoroughly tested, so I guess the performance level of the batteries is
no surprise for the factory, who let the product out to the market. I don't
think they just didn't know.
On the other hand I could just be naive, and the company will downgrade
their product.
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Roger Stockton
Enviado el: mi�rcoles, 09 de febrero de 2005 19:22
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
Tim Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Or, could it be that the manufacturer says the batteries will
> do a third of what they're really capable of, and then will
> never have to honor a warranty claim.
Rating them at half or even one-third of what they are really capable of
I could almost buy, but we're talking about a rating that is less than
one-fifth of what Rich is pushing them to.
*If* the batteries really are presently built capable of *reliably*
handling over 5x the rated max (I^2)t, then I expect one of two things
will happen. Either Exide will revise their max current*time spec to
capitalise on this performance advantage to sell more batteries, or they
will cost-reduce the battery so that it has a smaller safety margin and
increased profit margin. Given that 1100-1150A is about the highest
cranking rating one typically sees for a battery, I suspect that
cost-reducing the battery construction will provide a greater profit
increase than relying on a better peak amp spec selling more batteries,
and is therefore the more likely outcome.
> Then they "give" the batteries to people like Plasma Boy and
> Madman and Wildeman. Who then write great things about how
> these batteries outperform the factory specs. It's kind of
> like the factory saying they will do 2000 amps for 10
> seconds, without actually saying it. Free advertising with no
> financial risk.
Hey, anything is possible! ;^>
But, I seriously doubt this is the case. EVers make up a tiny fraction
of the demand for these batteries, so free advertising resulting from
sponsorship of EV racers is unlikely to be nearly as important to their
sales as sponsorship of high profile low-rider or competition audio
vehicles.
No sane manufacturer is going to put an extra $0.50 worth of lead into
every battery to overbuild it to this extent just to avoid a warranty
claim due to excessive amp draw. Remember, when building things in high
volume even a few cents per unit of unnecessary cost adds up quick.
$0.50/battery in extra material is $500,000 in lost profit on a million
units produced. Battery companies are quite adept at wriggling out of
honouring warrantees when they want to be, but even if they do warranty
the battery against failure from excessive current draw, and honoured
that warranty, they could replace a *lot* of ~$100 batteries and still
come out *way* ahead financially.
Cheers,
Roger.
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