EV Digest 4104
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Home made batteries
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LB-20 Isolated?
by russco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: building your own batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Gadget's Conversion
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Tzero 1/4 mile
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Ev-1
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery boxes
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Home made batteries
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Gadget's Conversion
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Chevy S-10EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 1970s Cars+510's+John Wayland
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Orbital Measurements
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Vego replacement batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Vas: RE: Hydraulic eff.
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Orbital Measurements
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: More water dreams...
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) New venting batt
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Victor Tikhonov"
>I think sometimes what it would take to put together
>winning
>AC powered car, similar to Cliff's on the track for 1/4
>mile
>drag racing. It is expensive, but not out of reach. So I do
>not exclude such possibility in the future.
Would you use Optima's or Orbital's? How many at what
voltage?
Which motor and controller would you use? What might the
1/4 mile time be?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
we don't hear many or even few attemps to improve a battery in a
garage, and we're looking for such info.
What's Electric Louie been doing since he sold eXkate? I know he was
working on some thin film, high density, high current drag racing
batteries "in his garage" with some high priced battery engineer in the
hopes of smashing some NEDRA dragster records. I haven't heard anything
since EVS-20 and there wasn't really any news then either.
Anyone know if Louis Finkle is making any progress or if he has
abandoned the project all together? Apologies if this was already
covered in the thread. No one changed the name to indicate a shift to
home made battery discussion.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
Thanks for the picture. I understand now. So would it work to replace the
LB-20 with a real boost transformer?
Forget about the K and W charger. It's 1960's technology, using a triac
(light dimmer) in series with the AC-DC rectifier. The crest factor is
very high because the power factor is very poor. This causes the line
cord to get hot and melt, even at low currents. There are much better
chargers available today.
At least the K and W charger, which is non isolated from the AC line,
has a built in GFCI. No real company in the United States would
manufacture a non isolated battery charger without a built in GFCI.
Something about liability, Electrical Code Section 625, and common
sense, I'm told.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
Manufacturers of the other PFC charger (with GFCI)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
24 hours from end is too soon to predict an auction.
Most bids are placed in the last 24 hours.
David Dymaxion wrote:
The idea of an auction is to exploit human nature to be competitive,
otherwise you'd just do a sealed bid auction.
Right. And due to this design flaw in ebay, it's more like
snipers get to make a sealed bid *after* viewing everyone else's
open bids. The sniper would bid higher, if he had to worry about
others outbidding him. But he doesn't. Result: the seller gets
less money. And straight-dealing buyers feel cheated.
That's the trouble with sniping.
Of course, a seller can thwart sniping several ways...
EV content: I bid on one of the "Naked Gun" Fieros on Ebay, and got
outbid with about a minute to go by something like $20.
Not necessarily -- remember proxy bidding. If you bid a
maximum bid of $1000, and then I bid a maximum of $4500,
ebay would report (to you) that I won with a $1010 bid.
That doesn't mean you lost by $20. In this example, you lost by
$3500, but you'll never know it. eBay doesn't disclose that.
In studies of ebay auctions the existence of a reserve price
generally resulted in a lower final offer, and a much higher rate
>>of auctions that closed with no bids at all. Its hard to explain
>>and not at all logical...
Seems logical and easy to explain to me. The operative
phrase is "asymmetrical commitment". In a straight auction
(no reserve), the buyer and seller are equally committed.
In a "secret reserve" auction, the seller is asking the buyer
to commit to a price, without himself committing to a sale.
If the bids don't meet the seller's oft-unrealistic hope,
he walks away: "Thanks for the free market research, chumps!"
Or he does an under-the-table: "It didn't meet reserve, but
I'll sell it to you privately at that price, and cheat ebay
out of their fees, and you out of your consumer protection."
It's totally logical to shun such sellers. They aren't
committed or honest to the degree straight sellers are.
Honesty and commitment are desirable traits humans select.
Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
The last time I adjusted my PFC-30 voltage limit was easily 7 months
ago, and I set it based off the readings from my (then just purchased)
Craftsman digital multimeter. I always heard the batteries bubbling a
little near the end of the charge cycle. Since then, I'd thought that
everything was set fine.
I've since been told that my batteries should be bubbling very
noticeably near the end of the charge cycle if the voltage is where it
should be. I'd always noticed that my batteries barely gassed during
charging and did find it odd that they didn't need to be watered until
last weekend (first time since I got them and drove about 550 miles with
them).
So, taking Lee's hint about faulty meters, I searched for and dug up
every multimeter I own. After turning up the charger approximately 10
volts or so (because I too suspected undercharge) and then waiting until
the last phase of the charge cycle, I took readings with all 4 meters:
Craftsman 82040 (Digital): 209.4 volts
Sperry SP-140 (Analog): 200 volts
Cen-tech P30756 (Digital): 198.0 volts
Radio Shack 22-810 (Digital): 194.0 volts
Quite a difference... Now I don't know which (if any) of these meters
are accurate. The Craftsman is the one I've been using, and is the most
expensive meter I have. The other digital meters are pretty cheap and I
don't use them much anymore... and I hadn't used the Sperry in years.
So yes, because up until now I had the charger set to 196 volts (as read
by my Craftsman meter), I was probably only charging the batteries to
about 187 volts (WAY undercharge), if I assume that the Craftsman is
reading about 10 volts higher than the true voltage.
How do I determine which of these meters is accurate (or closest to it)
without spending lots of money on a high end meter? I wonder if these
meters can be calibrated or adjusted? Now I feel like I can't trust any
of them.
P.S. I purposely ran the charger (now set about 10 volts higher) after
the batteries had already completed a full charge cycle (with the old
voltage setting) and sat overnight with no loads connected. The charger
proceeded to add just over 7 kWh into the pack, which should have
already been full, before timing out! Yes, that sure explains why my
range has been less than expected :-0
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
---------------------------------------------
On Tue, 2005-02-15 at 11:36, Lee Hart wrote:
> Nick Viera wrote:
> > 20 Trojan T-875 batteries... Before watering, battery pack 168 volts
> > (no load on the batteries). According to specs, 100% state of charge
> > open circuit voltage should be 8.49 volts/battery or 169.9 volts for
> > the pack.
>
> Ok. That all sounds right.
>
> > Well, now when the charge cycle ends, I see the battery voltage rest at
> > 163 to 164 volts.
>
> That's only 2.04v/cell. Either the pack is not fully charged, you have a
> bad battery somewhere, or there is some load left connected.
>
> I don't think it could be consequence of watering. You would need to
> have FAR too much water to lower the voltage this much. I don't think
> it's possible to add this much water without it overflowing out the top.
>
> > I've also just noticed that the pack voltage seems to sag a lot more
> > than it used to under load, and my range has decreased.
>
> These symptoms also point to either under-charged batteries, or a bad
> one somewhere in the pack. (Or, less likely, a broken voltmeter that's
> lying to you, and cold batteries due to the winter weather).
>
> > P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit connected to
> > the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs light up...
>
> Good. That tells me there are no dead cells.
>
> But, I think I would check all your individual battery voltages. It
> still may reveal a "stinker". Then I'd try a long low-current equalizing
> charge, to see if perhaps your charger isn't charging enough.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This .pdf has a drawing of the inside of an Orbital:
http://www.exideworld.com/pdf/orbital_xcd_specs_and_features.pdf
Where is it's weak link or it's perceived weak link? Which
part of it might fail when put under an extended full
discharge type load?
----
Here is a screenshot of the contents from that .pdf if you
don't have the free reader installed..
http://www.free-image-host.org/images/556647262orbital.jpg
Free reader:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert MacDowell writes:
>
> Ralph Merwin wrote:
> > Maybe you're thinking of someone else? I have a '93 Geo Prizm
> > (aka Boring Jelly Bean with a Boring Interior with a Boring
> > Curb Weight of 3200 lbs (projected)). Hi John ;-)
>
> Here's a question. What was its curb weight _as a glider_?
> Or, what's the weight of the batteries, motor & controller?
I never had it weighed as a glider, but I did have it weighed with
the pack of 20 NiCads. Total weight was 2800 lbs. The NiCads
weighed 560 lbs, so the car with motor, controller. boxes, etc.
weighs about 2240 lbs.
I had the wrong projected weight in my earlier message. The weight
will be a more portly 3400 lbs.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back to the topic, I was just rescently remenising over my
little trip to LA to drive a rented EV1 arround for a day.
I got to thinking, Darn, you know, I should have called up
Jay Leno to see if he wanted to have some fun with the EV1.
( Since GM wouldn't sell one and it's faster than his Baker )
( Jay probably has better video cameras than I did aswell )
( He may have been down for something like that )
It would have been fun for us to rent a pair of them and
cruse arround LA with a video crew in toe. Maybe visit
the drag strip, take part in an autocross EVent. <Sigh>
Imagine the kind of Late Night Sketch we could have put
together, probably would have been the most air time
that car ever got. But like a vigil, it doesn't seem
to matter at this point, they can't be un-crushed.
Anyway, does anyone know if ANY EV1's have survived?
I recall a university that has a hopped up EV1, but
how about any stock EV1's, have ALL of the leases ended?
L8r
Ryan
Ivo Jara wrote:
Com'on, dont think like a calculator, 1 - 0.9999 would be 0.0001
Fractions, Like 3.1415, work best
when you shift your reference frame.
1 . 3
- * - = 1
3 . 1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/1666.pdf
This is what I got. I can only think they must use a shunt or some other
device to work with high voltages and more cells or possibly multiple units.
Wonder if it could be the brains for a PFC???? LR>..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
Did you try googling MAX712?
I did and one of the first responses shows a circuit diagram.
Does anyone know how to use this IC to control NiCad Charging? The
MAX712.
That would be for flooded NiCads.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Having a single speed gearbox, the t-zero is rpm limited to 12K which is
90mph
geared for awsome 0to 60, a little re-gearing and it would make a great
1/4 mile car :-)
It can carry the acceleration longer
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At least a few did make it to the Boston area... some towns got one or
two each. I had seen one used by the city of Medford, MA in the fall and
as of a couple weeks ago the chargers were still in place in the town
hall parking lot, although the car(s) were suspiciously absent given it
was late at night... possibly taken off the road as it was something
like 10 degrees F that week (but taken to where I don't know). I also
recall someone reported seeing a GM employee(????) driving one to/from
work but that was probably a year or so ago.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I thought they were going to refurbish a few and lease them in NY (or
somewhere on the east coast) to meet the ZEV mandate out there.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 5:56 PM -0800 2-16-05, Reverend Gadget wrote:
I'm putting together some battery boxes for my triumph
conversion. Does anybody have an exide orbital to take
some dimensions from? The manufacturers info says that
the battery has a footprint of 7" X 11.21" with a
height of 8.12". does that include the side terminals?
and does the height include the top terminals or is
that just the case height? I seem to remember some
discrepancies the last time I used them but don't
remember exactly what they were, nor do I have access
to them anymore. I won't have my batts for a week and
want to procede. I need to have this thing running by
the end of the month. Thanks
Gadget
I knew I saw this somewhere. A quick search of my old mail found this:
At 10:25 PM -0700 10-13-04, John Wayland wrote:
The overall height of the battery, including the top posts, is 8 and
1/8 inches. Excluding
these posts, the main body of the battery is 7 and 1/2 inches high.
The top portion of the battery, the more rectangular shaped part, is
10 and 1/4 inches
long, by 6 and 5/8 inches wide, not including the protruding section
of the side posts.
Including those awkward side posts, the battery is 7 inches wide at
the top. This
rectangular top is about 2 inches thick, where the rest of the
battery body is inset and
is comprised of the six cell barrels. The 6 barrels that make up the
bulk of the battery
body, are 5 inches high, 9 and 5/16 inches long, and including the
lower projecting
plastic mount clamp ribs, 6 and 3/4 inches wide at the very
bottom...excluding these 1/4
wide ribs (they can be easily sawed off on a table saw), the barrels
are 6 and 1/4 inches
wide. Thus, the Exide Orbital is has a smaller footprint than the
area of it's top piece.
The two holes that one can use to mount the battery with (an 8 inch
long, 5/16 bolt with
fender washers on top works great), are exactly centered in the
middle of the battery, and
are 3 and 1/8 inches center-to-center....they are each 3 and 9/16
inches in from the ends
of the battery's top piece (lengthwise).
Hope this helps.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing system, "good/evil"
has nothing to do with "lawful/chaotic".
http://www.gamegrene.com/node/232
Something can be both "evil" and "lawful".
Robert
Joe Strubhar wrote:
Isn't using a sniping service illegal on eBay? If it isn't, it should be
illegal, IMHO.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: No bids on the Siemens inverter and motor on Ebay
The idea of an auction is to exploit human nature to be competitive,
otherwise you'd just do a sealed bid auction.
With this human nature in mind, it is of no benefit to you to enter a
bid on ebay any sooner than you have to. Bidding early just gives
others more time to outbid you. The trick is to use one of the
sniping services (http://www.esnipe.com or http://www.ezsniper.com)
that will enter your bid in the last few seconds.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan wrote:
<SNIP>
Anyway, does anyone know if ANY EV1's have survived?
I recall a university that has a hopped up EV1, but
how about any stock EV1's, have ALL of the leases ended?
Besides the handful with universities, and the batch with GM in New
York(?), I understand there are still about 100 to 150 EV1s on the road in
California creeping up to the end of their leases. I am told one actually
visited the Ranger EV vigil site. I was surprised to hear this, as I was
under the impression all of them were turned in and crushed already. I
guess if the last of them were leased about 2001-2002 and they had 4 year
leases that makes sense.
In this case, I can't help but think the vigil to save the EV1 is certainly
worthwhile. Of course, it would be even more worthwhile if it works. :)
(fingers crossed)
I only got to drive one around a parking lot for about a minute. I can't
imaging actually having access to one as a daily driver.
BTW, what ever became of the Post Office's Ranger EV based postal vans? I
remember when the supply of Ranger EVs was cut back to allow for production
of the vans. Where are they now?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
> ...I took readings with all 4 meters:
>
> Craftsman 82040 (Digital): 209.4 volts
> Sperry SP-140 (Analog): 200 volts
> Cen-tech P30756 (Digital): 198.0 volts
> Radio Shack 22-810 (Digital): 194.0 volts
>
> Quite a difference... Now I don't know which (if any) of these
> meters are accurate... How do I determine which of these meters
> is accurate (or closest to it) without spending lots of money
> on a high end meter?
There are a number of ways.
You can send one of your meters to a lab to be calibrated. Then use it
to check and calibrate the rest.
You can buy a "standard cell" which is a battery specifically made to be
a voltage reference and not to deliver power. It will have the voltage
marked right on it to 4-5 significant digits. Basically, it is two very
pure metals in a a pure electrolyte solution, so it delivers the voltage
you see in an electromotive table of the elements.
A cheap version of this is to buy a mercury cell. It *must* be a real
mercury cell -- not a modern "ecologically correct" replacement! These
are little watch batteries. True mercury cells have the advantage that
they deliver precisely 1.350 volts no-load, and will do so for over 10
years, until they are 95% dead. But they have become *very* hard to
find.
Another solution is to buy an antique laboratory-grade DC voltmeter.
These are typically a rectangular black box with leather carrying
handle, and a hand-lettered mirrored scale. They look like they were
made in the 1930's (and many are)! The amazing thing is that they work
forever and (short of abuse) don't require calibration. I have a
70-year-old General Radio voltmeter that is still dead nuts accurate (as
close as you can read the pointer).
Finally, the most practical solution: Buy a precision voltage reference
IC. For example, a Linear Technology LT1031. This is essentially a
3-terminal regulator IC, but delivers 10.000 volts +/-0.005 volts at low
current. Digikey carries it for $6.25 to $21.00 (depending on how good a
version you want).
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> we don't hear many or even few attemps to improve a battery in a >
garage, and we're looking for such info.
What's Electric Louie been doing since he sold eXkate? I know he was
working on some thin film, high density, high current drag racing batteries
"in his garage" with some high priced battery engineer in the hopes of
smashing some NEDRA dragster records. I haven't heard anything since EVS-20
and there wasn't really any news then either.
Anyone know if Louis Finkle is making any progress or if he has abandoned
the project all together? Apologies if this was already covered in the
thread. No one changed the name to indicate a shift to home made battery
discussion.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
Good questions Ken :^D
I witnessed the TMF battery powered 100 mph+ kart run at Woodburn 2001.
His helmet was the rollbar and the front end got so light that it almost got
away from him.
When Louie rolled up to the timing shack to pick up his timing slip after
that run, I was there on my bicycle giving him the thumbs up.
He was in serious disbelief as to how fast he had gone, all he wanted to
know was "how fast?"
As Louie rolled back to his pit area, an instant crowd gathered and an
extended question and answer period ensued.
Track officials would not allow another run. :^(
That was my first Woodburn and one of my favorite memories from that EVent.
Maybe 6 months to a year later I talked with Louie at length one day when he
called EV Parts.
His enthusiasm at that time for making his own TMF batteries was
substantial.
Since then I have heard nothing.
"What ever happened to Electric Louie?" and "Is he still doing something
with TMF batteries?"" comes up all the time in conversations with others in
the EV industry/EV drag racing community.
AFAIK, no one has heard anything from Louie in quite some time.
If anyone on this list has heard from or about Louie, please let the rest of
us know.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph Merwin wrote:
Robert MacDowell writes:
Ralph Merwin wrote:
Maybe you're thinking of someone else? I have a '93 Geo Prizm
(aka Boring Jelly Bean with a Boring Interior with a Boring
Curb Weight of 3200 lbs (projected)). Hi John ;-)
Here's a question. What was its curb weight _as a glider_?
Or, what's the weight of the batteries, motor & controller?
I never had it weighed as a glider, but I did have it weighed with
the pack of 20 NiCads. Total weight was 2800 lbs. The NiCads
weighed 560 lbs, so the car with motor, controller. boxes, etc.
weighs about 2240 lbs.
I had the wrong projected weight in my earlier message. The weight
will be a more portly 3400 lbs.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2045.htm
says its original curb weight was 2359 lbs.
Sounds like it's going to end up weighing a lot more than that.
Which suggests to me the original ICE wasn't that heavy.
Do you know what its curb weight was originally with ICE?
How did it handle when it weighed 2800 lb.?
Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
Does anybody know if there is some more info about the S-10EV's other than at
the www.evbones.com website?
Specifically the report http://www.evbones.com/battery.html. says that the VRLA
batteries only get about 40 miles on a charge. At
http://www.evbones.com/battery.html there is a photo of how the batteries fit
between the frame rails. The Pack voltage is 312 V with 30 Ah at a C/3 rate.
How can I increase the range?
If I convert the batteries to T-105s, in the space where the batteries are now
I can fit 22 so I'll get a 132 V pack, and I can add some more in the bed. I
know the 105's are rated at 225 Ah for C/20, what I don't know is how to figure
out the Ah to compare them with the 30 Ah C/3 rate. Another question is - will
the controller handle the lower voltage?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rush
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to be a nag, folks, but this thread has wandered off topic and has
carried on for some time. In the interest of fairness to other list
members, if you want to continue the discussion of Ebay bidding, please do
so in private email, not on the EV list.
Thanks.
David
Assistant EV List Administrator & Topic Cop
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But for the EV1, it's already too late. They're gone. Why have a vigil to
save something that's already destroyed
There are some EV1's in New York driven by GM employees.
There are around 70 EV1's sitting in a lot in So Cal (Burbank).
There is one still being leased somewhere up near Sacramento.
George S.
VW CaddyEV
Rav4EV
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Oh YA, I have some ideas!!
(first the two that would be most likely to get federal funding)
1. It has a garden, we grow corn, turn it into fuel, burn it. or
2. It has a cup holder, a glass of water, Crack water, burn H2!
ok, that's enough of my sarcasm.... how about some real ideas...
It seems to me that there are two ways to utilize solar energy,
in a rapid enough fassion to be of use in a race that is.
1. PV's ~13% effecient Solar to Electricity, very rapid conversion!
2. Heat engine. Potentially more effecient, but far less rapid.
Option #1 is probably the easiest to implament. But I like
Option #2 if for no other reason than that it's a lesser known method.
If #2 were 26% or 52% eff, thus 2x to 4x the power could it overcome
the startup time penelties of a few seconds or minutes? <ponders>
Also, would wind energy be allowed?
It is after all solar driven.
I would love to take part but alas I can't afford the PV nor the
stirling engines that it would take to make something like this.
L8r
Ryan
Roy LeMeur wrote:
For additional rules and information you can check out the web page at:
http://users.applecapital.net/~jim/solardragrace.htm
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It is absurd to think that a single 250m sprint is going to result in
very intricate designs or high cost cars. That said, the way to do
it is with cheap Fresnel lenses and concentrator solar (PV) cells
(>30% eff.). I know multiple road racing solar car teams have
considered this approach, but it is not feasible for a race where the
sun angle changes throughout the day.
Keith
Ryan wrote:
It seems to me that there are two ways to utilize solar energy,
in a rapid enough fassion to be of use in a race that is.
1. PV's ~13% effecient Solar to Electricity, very rapid conversion!
2. Heat engine. Potentially more effecient, but far less rapid.
Option #1 is probably the easiest to implament. But I like
Option #2 if for no other reason than that it's a lesser known method.
If #2 were 26% or 52% eff, thus 2x to 4x the power could it overcome
the startup time penelties of a few seconds or minutes? <ponders>
Roy LeMeur wrote:
For additional rules and information you can check out the web page at:
http://users.applecapital.net/~jim/solardragrace.htm
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Hi All
I just recently sold my Datsun 510 after owning it for over 10 years, It
seems an
EV interest sort of took over. I first heard about EV conversions from the
Datsun
510 mailing list. Every once in a while someone would mention these
electric Datsuns
and how fast and clean they were, those cars were White Zombie and Blue Meanie.
Needless to say I was interested and I researched conversions, joined this
list and bought a
VW pickup conversion. That was in 2001 and I've been driving it ever since
and haven't
killed my pack yet.
I'd love to convert a 1200 coupe(I know I know :)) or maybe a 510 wagon.
George S.
VW Rabbit pickup
Rav4EV
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Hi Gadget and all:
Here's some pics I took:
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/orbital1.jpg
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/orbital2.jpg
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/orbital3.jpg
Sorry, not resized, and I didn't take one of the top portion
lengthwise. If you need it, let me know.
These are just a few of the enormous quantity of pictures I've taken,
and haven't posted yet...ahhhh! Anybody want a project updating a
website? evgrin.com needs major help too. Contact me off list if
interested in donating web-development talent and time.
I'm putting together some battery boxes for my triumph
conversion. Does anybody have an exide orbital to take
some dimensions from? The manufacturers info says that
the battery has a footprint of 7" X 11.21" with a
height of 8.12". does that include the side terminals?
and does the height include the top terminals or is
that just the case height?
Gadget
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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We found that this battery can fit in exactly the same space as stock Vego
batteries. Just a half ah loss. This battery is also designed for high
discharge rate. Around 20 dollars each.
http://www.power-sonic.com/ PSH-12100 10.5ah
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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>
> L�hett�j�: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> P�iv�: 16.02.2005 19:51
> Vastaanottaja: <[email protected]>
> Otsikko: RE: Hydraulic eff.
>
> Seppo Lindborg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I suppose the real question is whether or not this is superior in any
> way to simply using 2 ordinary induction motors with the stators wired
> as one. The advantage of using a pair of ordinary motors is that you
> avoid the cost/complexity of a custom-built 2-rotor machine that
> requires some sort of central bearing support for the internal ends of
> each rotor. The only disadvantage I see is that you have the extra
> weight of a pair of endbells, however that is offset by the weight of
> the central bearing support of the 2-rotor machine.
You might not need the central bearing. It might work making the motor axle
halves hollow and putting in there a steel rod to keep the halves aligned, or
something like that. Most of the time the halves do not rotate much in relation
to each other.
If the wheels have different speed two separate motors would even out the
situation by driving current between each other (I think). In two-rotor motor
the evening-out would happen at magnetic flux level inside one stator winding.
But probably it would not make much difference in practice.
Seppo
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
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MAX712 is a nicad charging brain so all you need is already here just read
datasheet, plus this one http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN3282.pdf to
accomodate any cells number, et voil� :^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
> http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/1666.pdf
> This is what I got. I can only think they must use a shunt or some other
> device to work with high voltages and more cells or possibly multiple
units.
> Wonder if it could be the brains for a PFC???? LR>..........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
>
>
> > Did you try googling MAX712?
> > I did and one of the first responses shows a circuit diagram.
> >
> >> Does anyone know how to use this IC to control NiCad Charging? The
> >> MAX712.
> >> That would be for flooded NiCads.
> >> Lawrence Rhodes
> >> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> >> Reedmaker
> >> Book 4/5 doubler
> >> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> 415-821-3519
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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I guess your current is too high due to the low revolutions, maybe I'm
wrong, but it looks like it.
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Lawrence Rhodes
Enviado el: mi�rcoles, 16 de febrero de 2005 20:07
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
I have two almost identical electric vehicles pound for pound. The Aspire
with an 8"ADC and the Electravan with the Big GE motor. Both 120v systems.
The narrow powerband but powerful GE motor just tears out and up hills the
the Aspire with almost the same battery pack and controller just can't do.
I suspect highly that the gear ratio has something to do with it. I get
defined power bands on the Electravan. up to 15 in first is powerful to 25
in second. 35 in 3rd and fourth above that. It has good hill climbing
torque and never goes higher than 150 amps ever. I just don't understand
it. The Aspire should be quicker but I have burned up a controller on a
hill the Electravan doesn't sweat on. I have a feeling the Aspire needs a
Granny gear. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
>> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>>> Are these DC motors as advanced as they are ever going to get?
>>
>>> Pretty much.
>>
>> (and I would add) ...because people have assumed there is no room for
>> improvement, and so have stopped trying.
>>
>>>> About what year did these motors peak out at?
>>
>>> Hmmm, 92 maybe 93? That of course would be 1892.
>>
>> No; it's not that bad!
>>
> -snip-
>
>> Most recent improvements have come from better materials. Much better
>> magnets and magnetic alloys, much better insulation, etc. This allows
>> modern motors to be much smaller for a given horsepower, because they
>> can run hotter without damage.
>
> I was under the impression we were discussing series wound motors. I
> doubt you will see anything new in series wound motors in the near future,
> except (very unlikely) possibly using super conductors. They aren't going
> to get much more efficient and they won't get much smaller (power to
> weight) that the current ADC type motors.
>
> I agree that they have made a lot of progress lately with PM motors and
> probably will make more progress, but I doubt it will be anything earth
> shaking except /possibly/ in reduced costs. Realistically speaking there
> are some pretty darn good PM motors available now for fairly reasonable
> costs.
>
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Here's a post from John Wayland from Oct. 13, 2004:
The overall height of the battery, including the top posts, is 8 and 1/8
inches. Excluding these posts, the main body of the battery is 7 and 1/2
inches high.
The top portion of the battery, the more rectangular shaped part, is 10 and
1/4 inches long, by 6 and 5/8 inches wide, not including the protruding
section of the side posts.
Including those awkward side posts, the battery is 7 inches wide at the top.
This rectangular top is about 2 inches thick, where the rest of the battery
body is inset and is comprised of the six cell barrels. The 6 barrels that
make up the bulk of the battery body, are 5 inches high, 9 and 5/16 inches
long, and including the lower projecting plastic mount clamp ribs, 6 and 3/4
inches wide at the very bottom...excluding these 1/4 wide ribs (they can be
easily sawed off on a table saw), the barrels are 6 and 1/4 inches wide.
Thus, the Exide Orbital is has a smaller footprint than the area of its top
piece.
The two holes that one can use to mount the battery with (an 8 inch long,
5/16 bolt with fender washers on top works great), are exactly centered in
the middle of the battery, and are 3 and 1/8 inches center-to-center....they
are each 3 and 9/16 inches in from the ends of the battery's top piece
(lengthwise).
Bill Dennis
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What makes DC controllers over 156V so much more expensive to build than
those with lower voltages? What's magical about the 156V number?
Bill Dennis
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Hi, I put a new battery in my old pack to replace a stinker and it ran dry on
charging. I assume that a new battery doesn't need as much charging as the
older one's so it probably overcharged. I'm picking up 19 more today for the
E-Tracker. anyone want to trade for a Kewet? Sometimes I think less batteries
is better when it comes to EV's. Mark
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