EV Digest 4132
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: OT: Solar was Re: Battery Exchange
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Minitrucks
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies, revisited
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Minitrucks
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies,
revisited
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies, revisited
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Minitrucks
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Low cost 45 mph electric vehicle. VW motor/adapter kit.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 1500 dollar complete VW conversion.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: It's "Best-Laid-Plans" Time
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 1500 dollar complete VW conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Porsche 911 speed vs. hp
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Fwd: RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fwd: RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) charger
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) GTech Performance meter on an EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) RE: Welding Aluminum
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: charger
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Tinned, Crimped then Tinned:
1) cut 1" (25mm) 1/2" (12mm) pipe.
2) tin the pipe by dipping in solder pot
3) insert the braid all the way through the pipe and crimp in vise
4) drill hole, clean up
5) dip the end again in solder pot
This produces straps which are completely tinned, but the second tinning
causes the strap to become stiff (and somewhat brittle)
Tinned, Crimped:
1) cut 1" (25mm) 1/2" (12mm) pipe.
2) tin the pipe by dipping in solder pot
3) insert the braid all the way through the pipe and crimp in vise
4) drill hole, clean up
(no dipping again in solder pot)
This produces a strap which is flexible, but has some visible copper in the
hole and at the end of the strap.
The problem with just tinning the braid, with no copper ends, is that the
heat of the solder pot will cause most of the braid to
become stiff, thus losing its flexibility.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: February 27, 2005 2:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
> Don Cameron wrote:
> >
> > Here is what I have come up with:
> > http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
what 's difference between braided tinned and braided crimped please ?
i don't see it looking at your pictures.
Is first braided crimped tinned and second strap braided crimped no tinned ?
if i understand right there is another solution to test: braided strap just
tinned (no copper) then drilled seems to me simpler construction but
probably less effective solution (contact area are not perfectly flat)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:11 AM
Subject: RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
> I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the
> flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were wired
in
> series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load. The current
was
> measured from a 500A shunt. The voltage drop was measured at the posts
> where the strap/bar was connected.
>
> Braided, tinned strap: 80Amp load, 1.9mV drop = 0.000024 ohms
> Braided, crimped strap: 80Amp load, 2.2mV drop (this strap is 0.25" longer
> than the other strap and copper bar) = 0.000028 ohms
> Copper Bar 80 Amp load, 1.8mV drop = 0.000023 ohms
>
> I estimate absolute max amperage draw of my 312V system will be 300Amps.
I
> will be using 6 of the straps in the packs (among other connectors). So
> these 6 straps will draw, at worst, P = I^2 x R = 300^2 x (6*0.000028) =
> 15.1 Watts
>
>
> Sounds not too bad...
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Looking for some ideas on how to Maximize efficiency when using
>> a 3-phase PM alternator to charge batteries. 30V nominal battery
>> voltage.
>>
>> Simplest way would probably be to use a 6-way bridge. I know I'll
>> lose about 2% in the diodes
>
> Lots more than that! The diodes have about a 1v drop at rated current,
> and there are two in series. 2v/30v = 7% lost to the diodes.
>
> At 30v, you can easily cut this in half with schottky diodes (3.5%). You
> could cut this loss in half again with synchronous rectification
> (complicated) or germanium diodes (hard to find).
Should have mentined that I was planning on using Schottky's, I forgot
about having two in series though.
>> how much will I lose do to power factor issues?
>
> That's harder to estimate. With a simple 3-phase rectifier bridge, the
> alternator coils see about a 0.7 power factor. Improving this to 1.0
> basically reduces the winding current to 70% for the same power output.
> You'd have to know the winding resistance to estimate what your I^2R
> losses are now, and what 70% less current would reduce them to. Then,
> add the losses of whatever circuit you use for power factor correction.
>
Ok so PFC will only get me another 1 or 2%.
Can I use the same FETs for synch rectification and PFC?
FWIW I was thinking about using one of the Ecycle motors as a generator
(roughly 95% efficient) so if I did and went with a 6 way schottky
rectifier I'd be down to about 91%, about the same as a similar sized Etek
and I believe slightly cheaper.
Ecycle's CMG series alreay has sychronous rectification built in. Though
I don't think it's controllable.
If I can get a a controller that offers synch rect, PFC, and is
controllable for output power (or what I want: input load, same thing), it
might have a slight edge on a Lynch/Etek with similar controller, plus no
worries about brushes, and it's a (more or less) sealed unit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Renewable Energy for EVs-The Moral High Ground?
> It seems to me that it would be difficult to charge EVs without the
> grid. If you have renewables at home (I have 3kW of PV & no grid
> connection for 13 years) you will not be able to charge because your EV
> will be away from home.
Well, just before this got dragged OT, it was talking about using a light
weight battery pack consisting of perhaps 8 modules weighing 25 lbs (and
quick disconnects, forgot to mention that part). This would make it easy
for an individual to manually swap out with a spare set of batteries.
The spare set would sit ona drop in charger, possibly connected to a
renewable energy source. It was Solar in the example but it could easily
be Wind or microhydro.
Anyway, since it's the /spare/ set of batteries we're talking about, they
are't in the EV when it's away from home, so they could easily be charging
from solar panels while the EV is out and about.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for a 72 datsun windshield ! Is there any other models that
have the same windshield?
Larry cronk 72 Datsun Elec tk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Well, CivvyWithACord has just turned 900 miles, and
I am still not entirely certain I'm charging as much
as I should.
I pretty much pull 2-4 kWh out of the batteries
each day and charge the 144V pack each night to 186V,
and hold it there for 15 mins.
Every 2-3 weeks, I take it to 186V and hold it
there for 1-2 hours.
The thing is, you don't hold it there for _time_,
you hold it there until the specific gravity is 1.265,
plus/minus a bit depending on temp.
Reality is, I have one of those $5 hygrometers from
Autozone that doesn't carry out the reading to the
thousandth place.
I remember my alternative propulsion class at a JC,
where we used this really cool white gizmo that you
put a drop on, and get a MAJOR accurate reading.
Who makes them?
Where do you get them?
My related issue is that I'm not consuming much water!
I have added maybe a gallon in the 8 months that I've
had the car up.
Don't get me wrong, I've heard the carbonated soda
sound of batts. equalizing. And I know I'm getting
cells _closer_ to proper levels. It _has_ been
freezing fanny here in So. OR until recently. So
1.250 specific gravity is not far off.
For those using USGCHC 8V, should I be using more H20?
Or should I expect consumption to go up in years 2 &
beyond?
Many thanks, as always,
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Where are you located?
I'm in Tucson and if you are not too far from me, I could haul it back here...
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Minitrucks
>I have come accross a 64 or 68(I'll have to double check) datsun PU that
> leaks/burns oil (looks like baby blue) Needs paint but body looks good
>
> I can pick it up for $500.00 Or anyone else on the list that needs
> one, let me know, I already have one conversion in the works and Ijust
> had a we bit of a setback. I transposed 2 numbers and scraped my
> adapterplate, gotta make it over. :-( ( 6.968 != 6.698 )
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
<SNIP>
I remember my alternative propulsion class at a JC,
where we used this really cool white gizmo that you
put a drop on, and get a MAJOR accurate reading.
Who makes them?
Where do you get them?
That sounds like refractometer. I always intended to get one of those but
never did. There are a number on Ebay right now, but I am sure you could
find them elsewhere.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chancey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Hygrometers, eq'ing, water cons., and 8 mo. floodies, revisited
Bob Bath wrote:
<SNIP>
> I remember my alternative propulsion class at a JC,
>where we used this really cool white gizmo that you
>put a drop on, and get a MAJOR accurate reading.
>Who makes them?
>Where do you get them?
You can get them from any Auto Parts Store that sells batteries and battery
test equipment. They had one they bought for testing, but they did not like to
used it.
Its ok, if you had the battery on the bench for testing with a
refractrameter. With battery right below you, you remove a bit of electrolyte
in to the meter and while you hold it right over the open cell, because it may
leak a drop or two.
Then you have to bend over the battery and eyeball the meter. Try to do this
with 100 to 200 cells in a EV. I would have to lay a insulated board on the
battery and lay on it to do this testing.
Could cover the batteries with paper towels. I find it is a lot faster with
a hydroameter.
That sounds like refractometer. I always intended to get one of those but
never did. There are a number on Ebay right now, but I am sure you could
find them elsewhere.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com<http://evalbum.com/>
My Electric Car at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda<http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda>
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org<http://maeaa.org/>
Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html<http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Larry and All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am looking for a 72 datsun windshield ! Is there any other models that
> have the same windshield?
> Larry cronk 72 Datsun Elec tk
>From my recent post:
> Other than the new fenders and new hood, from the windshield back, the cab,
> doors,
> and bed look identical between the L-520 and the PL-520. If you have a '66 or
> '67 (the '67
> has a different grill with quad 5 inch round headlights, where the '66 has
> dual 7 inch
> rounds) truck, but need a door or a bed, these parts from the '68 - '72
> trucks, will bolt
> right on...cool.
>
The '66 - 72 all use the same windshield. "73 and later are different. I have a
brand new,
in the box windshield, but it's slated to go into my truck after the body and
paint work
are completed...sorry. I had no problem at all, getting it last year through a
local auto
glass warehouse, so if you want a new windshield, any similar place near you
should be
able to get one.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 05:53:38 -0000
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Low cost 45 mph electric vehicle
Looking to do a conversion for arround town transportation (45mph
Max.).
Anyone know of a better conversion than this ?
http://tinyurl.com/5xnym
Light weight car ? VW or Geo or ??
One of the members of the SFEVA owns this motor/adapter combo. Nice to know
where it comes from. Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These guys have some interesting concepts & a very inexpensive VW
conversion. A light kit body and a sub 2000 pound weight would be very
interesting. Looks like this kit could be completed in a weekend. Anybody
done one?
http://www.e-volks.com/index.html
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You've been unlucky. My end plates are much thinner and, if I may say,
sophisticated. I'll try and get a photo later when I'm down the garage!
Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:When I unpackaged the TS cells today, I
found that the end plates shipped
are both thicker and wider than I had anticipated. Unfortunately, the fit
in my battery box design had only a couple of millimeters to spare in either
direction, so it looks like I'm going to have to change the box shape, move
it back 3 inches, and raise it 4 inches off the floor. Unfortunately, this
means that I didn't need to have cut out the gas tank hump after all. Ah,
well. At least the car's 8 pounds lighter for it. Here are some images:
1) 35 Batteries arrived in 2 crates:
http://www.fredrickgroup.com/ElectricCarConversion/TwoCratesOfBatteries.JPG
2) Batteries were pre-grouped and pre-strapped into groups of seven:
http://www.fredrickgroup.com/ElectricCarConversion/GroupedInSevens.JPG
3) All Batteries arrived with over 4V of charge:
http://www.fredrickgroup.com/ElectricCarConversion/TestingVoltage.JPG
4) End plates are more than 1/4-inch thick and nearly 8 inches wide:
http://www.fredrickgroup.com/ElectricCarConversion/EndPlates.JPG
5) Batteries came with pre-made connectors and bolts.
http://www.fredrickgroup.com/ElectricCarConversion/Connectors.JPG
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The most efficient commercial available units are only 74%. They can produce
a ton of amperage, Ecoair is 240amps/12volts/1650shaft rpm, 310amps max. The
Bosch is only 160amps max, don't know about its lower rpm, I think around
100amps. Ecoair is getting ready for production a 140amp/12volt/1650shaft
rpm alternator as well. They can be factory adjusted to charge at up to
48volts, so you can get them preset at 30volts. They have temperature
compensation and they use the bucking when the alternator is not needed. The
Ecoair would probably be a 1300-1500 dollar adventure. The new model soon to
be released will be half that? The Ecoair gets its efficiency from a coil
wound and permanent magnet rotor assembly, the Bosch claims it is done with
more efficient stator windings. I have never seen the Bosch up close so I
can give you more specifics about it.
The Denso on the newer Chryslers is using a square wire stator, and we are
seeing very good turn on/bottom end amperages from it. How efficient it is I
don't know. But since it is producing high rates at very low rpm and not
burning up, I would think it is better than the normal 50%-55% of a claw
pole alternator.
And for the record on the other thread, I have either built or overseen the
production/repair of over 25,000 starters/alternators/DC motors in just the
last 10years. AERAC was founded in my parents kitchen 20+ years ago, so I do
know a little bit about them. :) I may not be an engineer, but I make my
living correcting their mistakes. No offense intended to the engineering
community with that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Tour de Sol is growing by leaps and bounds!
Monte Carlo-style Rally start points have been registered:
Boston, Massachusetts
Trenton, New Jersey
Buffalo, New York
Cleveland, Ohio
Salt Lake City, Utah
Portland, Oregon
Washington, DC
Toronto, Canada
Uncasville, Connecticut
more coming
watch:
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2005montecarloevent.html
Tour de Sol Championship registrations are flowing in, and and there are many
inquiries about E-bike, E-scooter and NEV registration.
We will also be adding many additional sponsors in the next two weeks.
This is truly going to be a banner year!
--
Mike Bianchi
17th Annual Tour de Sol
May 13-16, 2005 in Saratoga and Albany, NY
Featuring New Events, Competitions, Activities Leading the Way to a
Sustainable Energy and Transportation Future, A Green "Car Show" and More
www.TourDeSol.org
www.Foveal.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Raymond and All,
--- Raymond Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I assume you are talking about auto-truck
alternators as 3ph can be a good amount better than
that.
But they until higher voltages and larger sizes
won't be nearly as eff as a PM or shunt DC generators
especialy at lower voltages with eff of 85-93% or so.
Of course YMMV!
And I can almost garrantee that engineers are
not responseable for most problems, ineff of
auto-truck alts but accountants, corporate cost
cutters instead!
I use a surplus 70 amp PM motor at probably
85-88 % eff for my EV hybrid generator to get the max
from my engine as it's fairly small at 5.5 hp and
keeps it lightweight, under 75lbs.
An E-tek would be even more eff at 90% for him or
so, more costly than mine but for me won't go to 80-90
vdc I'll need for my next EV 72vdc nom batt pack.
For anyone wanting to charge batts or make a
hybrid a PM or shunts generator is a much better
choice and can be used to start the ICE and possibly
add acceleration power directly to the drive train as
a motor when needed.
I'll just use mine as a series sometimes hybrid,
range extender as it will be able to be taken off when
not needed.
HTH's
jerry dycus
> The most efficient commercial available units are
> only 74%. They can produce
> a ton of amperage, Ecoair is
> 240amps/12volts/1650shaft rpm, 310amps max. The
> Bosch is only 160amps max, don't know about its
> lower rpm, I think around
> 100amps. Ecoair is getting ready for production a
> 140amp/12volt/1650shaft
> rpm alternator as well. They can be factory adjusted
> to charge at up to
> 48volts, so you can get them preset at 30volts. They
> have temperature
> compensation and they use the bucking when the
> alternator is not needed. The
> Ecoair would probably be a 1300-1500 dollar
> adventure. The new model soon to
> be released will be half that? The Ecoair gets its
> efficiency from a coil
> wound and permanent magnet rotor assembly, the Bosch
> claims it is done with
> more efficient stator windings. I have never seen
> the Bosch up close so I
> can give you more specifics about it.
> The Denso on the newer Chryslers is using a square
> wire stator, and we are
> seeing very good turn on/bottom end amperages from
> it. How efficient it is I
> don't know. But since it is producing high rates at
> very low rpm and not
> burning up, I would think it is better than the
> normal 50%-55% of a claw
> pole alternator.
> And for the record on the other thread, I have
> either built or overseen the
> production/repair of over 25,000
> starters/alternators/DC motors in just the
> last 10years. AERAC was founded in my parents
> kitchen 20+ years ago, so I do
> know a little bit about them. :) I may not be an
> engineer, but I make my
> living correcting their mistakes. No offense
> intended to the engineering
> community with that.
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gnat wrote:
> 6061 will slowly age harden i.e. sort of self tempering after
> welding. I don't recall if the period is 30 or 180 days to
> regain the max amount. So as long as the weld is sound and
> not cooked just letting the box sit around will do this. And
> as long as you use a filler rod one grade above
> the 6061 you get most of the strength back. For design I've
> been told to
> use 2/3 to 3/4 of the original strength to be safe.
>
> Having said that I'd still recommend rivets ;-]
Hi Gnat,
Sorry to take so long to respond to this, but I thought I'd offer a
counterpoint to welding too.
Everyone says welding is better, and it can be. It can also be worse
depending on how it's done. You need to clean the metal before welding.
Most people use a disc grinder. Unfortunately, the metal is only 0.030" -
0.040" thick to begin with, and you can buzz through 1/3 - 1/2 of your
thickness *really* fast. Does that make for a good joint? Better to use a
wire wheel, but it's slower.
Weld heat doesn't stay near the weld. Frequently you're welding near
enclosed areas where the weld heat can destroy any paint or rust
preventative in there. Can you get in there to fix it? How long would you
like your conversion to last?
My information on rivet spacing is different from yours - put them not
closer than 4X the rivet diameter. I used double rows of 1/8" rivets at
3/4" spacing for the firewall (highly stressed area) on my car. Single row,
same spacing elsewhere. If strength matters, use structural rivets, which
leave the mandrel in the body - NOT hardware store pop rivets. In areas of
high stress always use two rows, staggered if possible. NEVER put rivets in
tension if you want them to hold. Always in shear.
Theoretically welding is stronger. Frequently rivets are a better
real-world choice. This comes from someone who spent almost as much for
structural rivets as the wire welder I already owned.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote:
> Weld heat doesn't stay near the weld. Frequently you're
> welding near enclosed areas where the weld heat can destroy
> any paint or rust preventative in there. Can you get in
> there to fix it? How long would you like your conversion to last?
Almost forgot. If you use rivets, seal the joint when you're done. A lap
joint is a perfect place to trap and hold water - and the most frequent
starting point of structural rust damage in unibody construction. You can
get special seam sealer from an auto parts tore, but just about anything
that keeps water out will work.
If you must rivet two different metals together, sealing the joint will also
dramatically reduce galvanic corrosion. Consider it a must if you're
joining an aluminum battery rack to a steel body. Make it absolutely
waterproof anywhere the two metals are in contact.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there a category for electric vehicles?
Categories
1- Toyota Prius Classic (�01-�03)
2- Toyota Prius (�04-�05)
3- Honda Insight
4- Honda Civic Hybrid
5- Honda Accord Hybrid
6- Hybrid SUV - Ford Hybrid Escape, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Lexus
400 Hybrid.
7- Custom Built hybrids (modified or built from scratch)
8- Modified Factory Hybrids, including plug-in factory hybrids
9- Biodiesel, and clean diesel vehicles
--- M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Tour de Sol is growing by leaps and bounds!
>
> Monte Carlo-style Rally start points have been registered:
> Boston, Massachusetts
> Trenton, New Jersey
> Buffalo, New York
> Cleveland, Ohio
> Salt Lake City, Utah
> Portland, Oregon
> Washington, DC
> Toronto, Canada
> Uncasville, Connecticut
> more coming
> watch:
> http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2005montecarloevent.html
>
>
> Tour de Sol Championship registrations are flowing in, and and
> there are many
> inquiries about E-bike, E-scooter and NEV registration.
>
> We will also be adding many additional sponsors in the next two
> weeks.
>
> This is truly going to be a banner year!
>
> --
> Mike Bianchi
> 17th Annual Tour de Sol
> May 13-16, 2005 in Saratoga and Albany, NY
> Featuring New Events, Competitions, Activities Leading the Way
> to a
> Sustainable Energy and Transportation Future, A Green "Car Show"
> and More
> www.TourDeSol.org
> www.Foveal.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
=====
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I always thought a spot welder would be the thing. Too bad that they are
too awkward to use to hand weld battery boxes.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Tromley
Sent: February 28, 2005 7:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Welding Aluminum Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
I wrote:
> Weld heat doesn't stay near the weld. Frequently you're welding near
> enclosed areas where the weld heat can destroy any paint or rust
> preventative in there. Can you get in there to fix it? How long
> would you like your conversion to last?
Almost forgot. If you use rivets, seal the joint when you're done. A lap
joint is a perfect place to trap and hold water - and the most frequent
starting point of structural rust damage in unibody construction. You can
get special seam sealer from an auto parts tore, but just about anything
that keeps water out will work.
If you must rivet two different metals together, sealing the joint will also
dramatically reduce galvanic corrosion. Consider it a must if you're
joining an aluminum battery rack to a steel body. Make it absolutely
waterproof anywhere the two metals are in contact.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< These guys have some interesting concepts & a very inexpensive VW
conversion. A light kit body and a sub 2000 pound weight would be very
interesting. Looks like this kit could be completed in a weekend. Anybody
done one?
http://www.e-volks.com/index.html >>
It may be inexpensive, but it's also pretty inefficient - 200-250wt-hrs/mi would
be great on the freeway, but not at NEV speeds. Don't think you'd get 30mi from
6 T105's if you're drawing 200-250A at 35mph.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a FAQ listing top speed vs. hp for Porsche 911's. I thought
this would be of some interest, enjoy.
<http://www.geocities.com/david_dymaxion/speedvshp911.jpg>
Comment: The curve doesn't flatten out as you'd expect because newer
cars have higher hp and better aero. Also mixed in are some race cars
with aero mods.
=====
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Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm not talking about automobile
alternators. Quite frankly, their efficiency sucks. But then they aren't
designed to be efficient, just cheap and (relatively)powerful.
Basically what I'm planning on using is either a BLDC or PM synchronous AC
motor running as a generator.
> The most efficient commercial available units are only 74%. They can
> produce
> a ton of amperage, Ecoair is 240amps/12volts/1650shaft rpm, 310amps max.
> The
> Bosch is only 160amps max, don't know about its lower rpm, I think around
> 100amps. Ecoair is getting ready for production a 140amp/12volt/1650shaft
> rpm alternator as well. They can be factory adjusted to charge at up to
> 48volts, so you can get them preset at 30volts. They have temperature
> compensation and they use the bucking when the alternator is not needed.
> The
> Ecoair would probably be a 1300-1500 dollar adventure. The new model soon
> to
> be released will be half that? The Ecoair gets its efficiency from a coil
> wound and permanent magnet rotor assembly, the Bosch claims it is done
> with
> more efficient stator windings. I have never seen the Bosch up close so I
> can give you more specifics about it.
> The Denso on the newer Chryslers is using a square wire stator, and we are
> seeing very good turn on/bottom end amperages from it. How efficient it is
> I
> don't know. But since it is producing high rates at very low rpm and not
> burning up, I would think it is better than the normal 50%-55% of a claw
> pole alternator.
> And for the record on the other thread, I have either built or overseen
> the
> production/repair of over 25,000 starters/alternators/DC motors in just
> the
> last 10years. AERAC was founded in my parents kitchen 20+ years ago, so I
> do
> know a little bit about them. :) I may not be an engineer, but I make my
> living correcting their mistakes. No offense intended to the engineering
> community with that.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Random thoughts...has anyone heard anything about hybrids combining
alternative (Bio diesel, LPG, CNG) fuels ICEs and electric motors? Just
curious. I am thinking of building a vehicle that has the cheapest cost per
mile, period. NOT counting the initial construction cost.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: 10 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo starting points ...
Is there a category for electric vehicles?
Categories
1- Toyota Prius Classic ('01-'03)
2- Toyota Prius ('04-'05)
3- Honda Insight
4- Honda Civic Hybrid
5- Honda Accord Hybrid
6- Hybrid SUV - Ford Hybrid Escape, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Lexus
400 Hybrid.
7- Custom Built hybrids (modified or built from scratch)
8- Modified Factory Hybrids, including plug-in factory hybrids
9- Biodiesel, and clean diesel vehicles
--- M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Tour de Sol is growing by leaps and bounds!
Monte Carlo-style Rally start points have been registered:
Boston, Massachusetts
Trenton, New Jersey
Buffalo, New York
Cleveland, Ohio
Salt Lake City, Utah
Portland, Oregon
Washington, DC
Toronto, Canada
Uncasville, Connecticut
more coming
watch:
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2005montecarloevent.html
Tour de Sol Championship registrations are flowing in, and and
there are many
inquiries about E-bike, E-scooter and NEV registration.
We will also be adding many additional sponsors in the next two
weeks.
This is truly going to be a banner year!
--
Mike Bianchi
17th Annual Tour de Sol
May 13-16, 2005 in Saratoga and Albany, NY
Featuring New Events, Competitions, Activities Leading the Way
to a
Sustainable Energy and Transportation Future, A Green "Car Show"
and More
www.TourDeSol.org
www.Foveal.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you must rivet two different metals together, sealing the joint will also
> dramatically reduce galvanic corrosion. Consider it a must if you're
> joining an aluminum battery rack to a steel body. Make it absolutely
> waterproof anywhere the two metals are in contact.
Could you use a rubber gasket that would provide a waterproof seal and prevent
most of the contact
between the metals? How about first treating the aluminum box with a coating
like spray on bed
liner?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also when joining steel and aluminum, I find it best
to use stainless steel. It's a better rivet, and will
last longer than an aluminum one.
Gadget
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > If you must rivet two different metals together,
> sealing the joint will also
> > dramatically reduce galvanic corrosion. Consider
> it a must if you're
> > joining an aluminum battery rack to a steel body.
> Make it absolutely
> > waterproof anywhere the two metals are in contact.
>
> Could you use a rubber gasket that would provide a
> waterproof seal and prevent most of the contact
> between the metals? How about first treating the
> aluminum box with a coating like spray on bed
> liner?
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey,
I'm new to EVing and just got my first EV on the road. It has a K&W BC-20
charger with a line booster.
I put new batteries in the truck and tried to set the charger per the
instruction. However, the current gage did not drop to below 10 even after
an 18 hour charge. (I used a volt meter and some jumper cables between the
most neg and most pos terminals 131.6 volts). I could hear the batteries
boiling and some on the electrolyte came out of the tops of some of the
batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.gtechpro.com/prod.html
Do any of you NEDRA types have experience with the GTech Pro meter? It seems
to be a performance gauge that uses RF noise from an ignition system, plus
accelerometers to compute acceleration, torque, 0-60 times, shift points, 1/4
mile times, etc.. You program the system with vehicle weight, desired shift
points, etc., but it has no sensors hardwired to the car. It might be a fairly
simple task to create the right noise to use this setup in an EV. I'd be
amazed if it could track accel/decel over a trip of any length and still
produce accurate speed measurements, but it might be useful to answer those
nagging performance questions we all get.
Just a stray idea,
Jay Donnaway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any recommendations for/against chemically bonding aluminum (i.e. glue)?
Why is a good adhesive for aluminum to aluminum bonds?
Aluminum to steel?
Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:08:14 -0800, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Random thoughts...has anyone heard anything about hybrids combining
> alternative (Bio diesel, LPG, CNG) fuels ICEs and electric motors? Just
> curious. I am thinking of building a vehicle that has the cheapest cost per
> mile, period. NOT counting the initial construction cost.
How about a bicycle? What's the cost per mile when fuelled by Mars bars? :)
I plan to use a 200cc 1-cylinder LPG fuelled engine in "parallel
hybrid" configuration to supplement the range in the EV I am building
now. It should be pretty cheap per mile.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Sounds like you have some old batteries. You are using flooded
batteries? As batteries age they take more current at finish voltage.
As my pack of US8VGC's was dying they would run at around 10 AMPs at
finish voltage.
I suspect you have one or more bad batteries. Please let the list know
the kind of EV you have, the batteries you are using and where you are
located. Contacting a local EV club would be one of the best things you
can do.
Lynn
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ohnojoe
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: charger
Hey,
I'm new to EVing and just got my first EV on the road. It has a K&W
BC-20 charger with a line booster.
I put new batteries in the truck and tried to set the charger per the
instruction. However, the current gage did not drop to below 10 even
after an 18 hour charge. (I used a volt meter and some jumper cables
between the most neg and most pos terminals 131.6 volts). I could hear
the batteries boiling and some on the electrolyte came out of the tops
of some of the batteries.
--- End Message ---
