EV Digest 4147
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) the VOLTSWAGON (was: Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????)
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RAV4 Info Palm device
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Looking for an appropriately electric horn for my truck, Euro train
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 100,000 volt DC power supply
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Compound wound motors
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: SiC Schottkys
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Additional outside funding
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) That other VW kit
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 100,000 volt DC power supply
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Additional outside funding
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVLN(pih: the solution is already with us)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EVLN(pih: the solution is already with us)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> The VOLTSWAGEN.
> What you need:
> VW BUG(or any rear engine VW, this includes exotic kit cars) to 1978
> Kit http://www.e-volks.com/about.html $1495.00 Adapter only is $595.00
> and use your own parts. (I have no relation to this company)
> Six 6v Golfcar batteries. 30 dollars used. New 55 to 70 dollars
> One day work. Sweat equity.
> Optional battery racks to put batteries in engine compartment or under
> hood(under hood the gas tank can be used if you cut the top off)
> More powerful versions using two motors and more batteries.
> What you get:
> A simple, practical & inexpensive vehicle that will go 20 to 30 miles on a
> charge & have a 45mph top speed. Perfect for city use.
> With modifications beyond the kit longer range and speed are available at a
> price.
sounds like a serious small business opportunity - build 'em and sell 'em
heck, it could be done as a non-profit - have high school kids (or anyone
else who wants to sign up for a free "learn how to build an EV conversion"
course) cycle through and do the conversions, sell the cars off relatively
cheap and use the profits to buy new materials and pay for the overhead
and permenant staff... heck, get artists involved and crank out
one-of-a-kind art cars and you've got yourself a cultural movement that
will get media coverage above and beyond the EV aspects...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know the laws of Australia, but I can't believe that a vehicle inspector
can just make up rules about equipment on a vehicle. I would ask for the
specific rule in whatever vehicle codes apply to you. Normal cars can be
awfully quiet at low speeds, so I don't know how he could single you out.
Perhaps just a backup beeper like commercial vehicles use, so you could
signal pedestrians when backing up, would suffice. (Or find a different
inspector.)
Second option, of course, is some kind of noisemaker that's easily removable
once you pass the inspection.
Tim
--------
> > From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Warning sound for approaching EV
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:17:16 +1100
>
> A vehicle inspector warned that my EV (Diahatsu Charade) poses a risk to
> pedestrians cyclists because it is too quite. It needs according to him
> a continuous sound. I seek comments from other EV or hybrid users.
> Perhaps we could amplify the sound the brush gear makes or replicate the
> horn of a main line loco. What do you think?
> David
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't like the motor, looks like it will overheat, looks like a car
starter,mmmmm. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would add a fan and lots of fins to
cool down, after seeni other VW conversions on the web, that motor seems
just too small.
But, I'm not the owner of the truth, so if someone makes the conversion and
proves it works as stated, I'm game.
Plenty of dead bugs here too.
Ivo.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Lawrence Rhodes
Enviado el: jueves, 03 de marzo de 2005 15:38
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Electric Vehicle
Discussion List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; SFEVA
Asunto: Why bother saving factory EV's????
Why bother saving Factory EV's when you can convert a VW to electric power
for around $2,000.00. I've been looking at the kit from
http://www.e-volks.com/about.html and the simplicity & logic plus the fact
that this would be a one weekend project makes me think that a simple plan
that could be followed by many people might be more powerful than support
from the big auto manufacturers. Just think if every conversion had a sign
on it saying to hell with big auto manufactruers I built this electric car
for 2k. Ask me how. Once people found out how siimple, practical &
efficient electric is a movement might be started. The VW is great because
here in the west and many other places (where they don't rust) there are
thousands of VW's in driveways collecting dust and guess what. They have no
motors. It is so easy to pop the motor out many owners take out the motor
resolved to fix it and wind up not doing anything because of the DMV saying
these are gross polluters. Many of these cars are in good condition with no
motor. Perfect for EV conversion. I think I could with very little in the
way of tools other than a drill make my own adapter. VW's are light and
shipping back east wouldn't be too bad. They are cute and fun to drive.
There is a huge business providing aftermarket parts for the myriad VW's
still running. Lets start a movement. Lets support something that an
average person can do. The VOLTSWAGEN. For people that want more range,
power or room the kit can be modified to use two motors or a more powerful
motor. A VW bus or transporter could be converted but these are more
valuable as collectables so the price goes up. Backyard mechanics could
turn out 5 of these a week creating jobs and people that didn't want to get
dirty could just buy one. What a great thing to do to take a resource that
is already there, that pollutes and turn it into a useful, and clean
transportation tool.
What you need:
VW BUG(or any rear engine VW, this includes exotic kit cars) to 1978
Kit http://www.e-volks.com/about.html $1495.00 Adapter only is $595.00 and
use your own parts. (I have no relation to this company)
Six 6v Golfcar batteries. 30 dollars used. New 55 to 70 dollars
One day work. Sweat equity.
Optional battery racks to put batteries in engine compartment or under
hood(under hood the gas tank can be used if you cut the top off)
More powerful versions using two motors and more batteries.
What you get:
A simple, practical & inexpensive vehicle that will go 20 to 30 miles on a
charge & have a 45mph top speed. Perfect for city use.
With modifications beyond the kit longer range and speed are available at a
price.
Lawrence Rhodes
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.4 - Release Date: 01/03/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.4 - Release Date: 01/03/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We'd like to get a RAV4 Info Palm Pilot device for the
RAV4 EV we just got. But Michael Schwabe, who makes
them, says he's sold out. He might be willing to make
more if we could put together an order for 20 of them.
If you're not familiar with them, here's his site:
http://www.dme-inc.com/%7Emichael/rav4ev/RAV4EV%20Page.htm
And here's an example of one, on Darrel Dickey's page:
http://www.darelldd.com/ev/index.htm
Since more RAV4 EVs will be coming off lease, I'll bet
we can find homes for 20 of these eventually. The cost
for each is $107 for the RAV4 Info plus an optional
$45 for Power with Serial Cable if you want to make
sure the Palm stays powered in the car.
That's assuming that you get your own Palm Pilot. I
found one on Craigslist.org for $75. If you get the
Palm through Michael, it's an extra $152.
If you're interested in placing a joint order, please
contact me off list.
=====
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
415-681-7731
www.sfeva.org
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Roger, a slight correction. Woodburn has always given prize
> money as far as I can remember which was back to the first
> race in 1997. We also give out valuable product prizes
> besides just certificates.
Thanks for keeping this accurate, Rod. I was aware of the product
prizes, but not the monetary ones. My point is that there are no *big*
money prizes yet; while the prizes awarded are certainly a nice bonus, I
don't believe any of them have yet been significant enough in value to
act as any sort of incentive to go out and race. I'm pretty sure that
more people have come out and run their vehicles just for the fun of it,
or to take a shot at a class record than because they might go home with
a new DVM, etc.
> As far as sponsorship goes. People do not sit around and wait
> for sponsorship. It is just as hard work to get sponsorship
> as it is to build a competitive machine. Most sponsorship
> only comes in the form of product or a discount on product.
And I certainly didn't mean to suggest otherwise. My observation is
merely that no matter how hard they try, not all racers are going to get
sponsorship, and it is going to be very difficult for someone without
sponsorship to compete against those with.
> The quickest EV in the world has gotten very little
> sponsorship over the years until recently. It has been
> his sweat equity and hard work at his business that has
> made him competitive.
He's also not racing under NEDRA, is he? He's bracket racing under NHRA
rules *for money*. (I'm not suggesting he is making money racing, just
that he is racing where there is a reasonable probability of taking home
reasonable prizes.)
> What you call high dollar vehicles in NEDRA
> palls in comparison to the money hobbyists put into their
> weekend gas racers in this country.
This may be true, but the reality is that there are precious few NEDRA
racers as a proportion of the EV-driving public than there are gas
racers as a proportion of the gas-driving public. I assume one of
NEDRA's goals is to see that number increase, and I think that perhaps
looking at the differences between the incentives available to gas
racers and electric racers is one place to start.
> Most people in this country spend more money
> on a new car than the cost of building a highly
> competitive EV. For a cost comparison you can build
> a top competitive fuel rail dragster for only
> several million dollars or you can build one of the
> quickest EVs on the entire planet for the cost of a
> new car. Please let us have some perspective here.
There isn't an EV in existence that approaches the performance of a
competitive top fuel dragster *at any cost*, and how many top fuel
dragsters are built and owned by weekend racing individuals?
A far fairer comparison, in my opinion, is to compare what it would cost
the weekend gas racer to build a 12s machine (competitive with the top
EVs) vs what it would cost the EVer.
You can't deny that cost remains an issue for electric racers even if it
is relatively cheaper to build a competetive EV than ICE. Your own
Maniac Mazda is a prime example.
> The fact is we are an oil based economy and the EV
> Racing movement here is but a spec on a fly's behind.
Fair enough.
Make EV racing attractive or exciting enough and gassers will start
building EV racers even if they keep driving gassers. Watching a 15s or
18s EV go down the track just isn't all that exciting for people in the
stands, even when they are EVers. But, that is where I think most of
the racer action is since there appears to be very few EVers with the
interest or deep pockets to build vehicles to compete with the Maniac
Mazda or White Zombie for their records (but watching 12-13s EVs go down
the track is more exciting for the spectators).
I think that NEDRA could generate more spectator interest by encouraging
more ICE vs EV racing, because even if neither vehicle is particularly
quick, the ICE provides the audible clues that the spectators need to
appreciate the speed, power, and effort of the racers. The difficulty
here is finding ICEs slow enough for most EVs to race against heads up.
Another area I think is worth development is Jr. Dragsters. EV 1/4 mile
racing is just too quiet and usually too slow/long to hold spectator
interest for very long, but 1/8 mile is short enough for spectators to
(usually) not get bored waiting for the vehicle to finish its run. So,
EV Jr's racing each other could stand a better chance of holding
spectator's interest, and certainly EV vs ICE Jrs could since there is
then also the ICE's audible clues for the spectators.
Just a few random thoughts from a not (yet) racing EVer,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Tromley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think [claiming] bears consideration. I personally think
> it could be an interesting addition to the present classes,
> without taking anything from them. I personally don't have
> time to get back into racing, but if I did I'd be far more
> likely to build a low-buck claimer than risk my daily driver
> or invest in a "real" racer.
I agree with Chris. I can't afford to get into racing more seriously
than perhaps seeing what my daily driver will do once a year at Woodburn
at the present time, but if/when I can either a low-buck claimer or
father-son/daughter Jr. dragster is what I'm most likely to build.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because as long as factory EV's are on the road, people will know that EV's were
not only built once, but are still cruising the roads, pollution free. A guy
driving
an old converted Bug with car batteries sitting on the back seat is viewed as
a nut, whereas somebody driving a sleek and silent EV1 is envied.
And when fool cells turn out to not be the miracle they've been hyped up to be,
imagine all the EV1, Think, EVPlus and Ranger EV drivers still driving along,
reminding those manufacturers what they could have been making if they hadn't
distracted the American public with pies in the sky for all those years.
Tim
------
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Subject: Why bother saving factory EV's????
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:37:31 -0800
>
> Why bother saving Factory EV's when you can convert a VW to electric power
> for around $2,000.00. I've been looking at the kit from
> http://www.e-volks.com/about.html and the simplicity & logic plus the fact
> that this would be a one weekend project makes me think that a simple plan
> that could be followed by many people might be more powerful than support
> from the big auto manufacturers. Just think if every conversion had a sign
> on it saying to hell with big auto manufactruers I built this electric car
> for 2k. Ask me how. Once people found out how siimple, practical &
> efficient electric is a movement might be started. The VW is great because
> here in the west and many other places (where they don't rust) there are
> thousands of VW's in driveways collecting dust and guess what. They have no
> motors. It is so easy to pop the motor out many owners take out the motor
> resolved to fix it and wind up not doing anything because of the DMV saying
> these are gross polluters. Many of these cars are in good condition with no
> motor. Perfect for EV conversion. I think I could with very little in the
> way of tools other than a drill make my own adapter. VW's are light and
> shipping back east wouldn't be too bad. They are cute and fun to drive.
> There is a huge business providing aftermarket parts for the myriad VW's
> still running. Lets start a movement. Lets support something that an
> average person can do. The VOLTSWAGEN. For people that want more range,
> power or room the kit can be modified to use two motors or a more powerful
> motor. A VW bus or transporter could be converted but these are more
> valuable as collectables so the price goes up. Backyard mechanics could
> turn out 5 of these a week creating jobs and people that didn't want to get
> dirty could just buy one. What a great thing to do to take a resource that
> is already there, that pollutes and turn it into a useful, and clean
> transportation tool.
>
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:37:31 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Why bother saving Factory EV's when you can convert a VW to electric power
>for around $2,000.00. I've been looking at the kit from
>http://www.e-volks.com/about.html and the simplicity & logic plus the fact
>that this would be a one weekend project makes me think that a simple plan
>that could be followed by many people might be more powerful than support
>from the big auto manufacturers.
Well, he has the sloganeering right but that's about all. Even his
own numbers don't make sense, what happens when he doesn't do the
math. Let's do some.
He claims "30+" miles using Trojan golf cart batteries at 35 mph.
Earlier on the site he says the motor draws "200-250" amps at 35 mph.
We have enough numbers to do the math.
The Trojan is 225 amp-hours at the 20 hour rate. Plug that into my
handy-dandy Peukert calculator and for a 200 amp discharge rate I get
113 amp hours or 0.57 hours at that rate. That works out to 20 miles.
This assumes a constant speed with no hills and no start-stops. Given
how close this setup is to my CitiCar which weighs less and is higher
voltage, I'd guess that less than 10 miles would be closer to the
truth, barring any significant hills in the route. My Citi weighs a
lot less, has 48 volts worth of Trojans and draws about 130 amps at
35mph on level ground. I'm tickled to get 10 miles' worth of city
driving out of it and it's not all that hilly around here.
Those are hard numbers to work with. Based on decades of designing
with cog belts, my gut says the backing plate is far to thin and
flexible, especially given his "contactor starts". I bet that motor
wags around like Lassie's tail! It probably won't flex enough to make
the belt skip but it WILL cause rapid and uneven wear.
Even if his kit works perfectly, one still isn't going to build an EV
for two grand. Just the kit, shipping and batteries pushes the price
to $2k. His kit (apparently) doesn't include a safety contactor,
isolation switch or any other controls such as the throttle pot. Then
there is the charger matter to deal with. Add another $500 or so for
the charger, cable, connectors and the like. By the time all the
incidentals are included, $3500 would not be out of the question.
For that money you end up with a car that can't get out of its own
acid fumes, can't keep up with surface street traffic and will maybe
go 10 miles. I don't think Detroit Inc is shaking in its boots.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul,
I use a dual-tone horn setup that I found in a motorcycle parts shop.
There are two horns with different tones, and are quite loud and
attention-getting (more like a Mack truck than a train though). I may
have a spare set if you're interested.
Ralph
Paul Wallace writes:
>
> My S-10 has a very anemic single tone horn. The stock unit. I have
> been contemplating upgrading, but I want an appropriate sound for an
> electric vehicle.
>
> I seem to remember hearing the horn of a European electric railway
> engine on a film or documentary. I think that it was a high pitched
> minor second, very attention getting.
>
> Does any one know of a source for an after market version of a horn with
> this sound? I was thinking that Bob Rice might have come across one,
> him being an electric train guy.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there anyway this could be used for EV R&D purposes?
http://www.unitednuclear.com/hvsupply.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Note: the chart clearly states that figures are with brushes
> set in a neutral posistion. Adjusting brushes for generator
> mode will improve efficiency. Plus he is planning on running
> generator at 13-14 volts not 11-12 volts, this will also
> improve efficiency. I believe that 80% on the Etek is very possible.
I seem to recall LEMCO stating that the efficiency improvement
associated with optimising the brush timing was only about 1-2%.
Running at 13-14V will slightly improve efficiency, but the sum of these
is highly unlikely to get him anywhere near 80% from the 45% shown at
12V and 40A. Bear in mind that at 11-12V the *peak* efficiency was less
than 73% and it took a load of 100A before breaking even 70%. Optimised
brush timing might add 2% to these numbers, but 40A is *way* down the
efficiency curve, even for this smaller motor (which is only intended
for 24V *maximum*, not the 48V of the E-Tec).
You know the PMDC motor efficiency curve shape as well as I do; it falls
like a rock below some minimum load. The LEMCO/E-Tec design achieves a
much flatter, broader peak after this minimum load than a typical
brushed PMDC motor, but the efficiency still falls like a rock below
this minimum.
I certainly wouldn't gamble on the 48V E-Tec running more than 60%
efficient at the 13.2V & 40A that this application calls for. If that
is good enough, and the $400 cost is bearable, then maybe its worth the
gamble. If it were my money, I'd be inclined to take Raymond up on his
offer of a $100-200 alternator instead, especially since he's just
offered a money-back guarantee.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Lee, you put me on a good train of thought. I reread the info on
compound motors that Michael Shipway pointed me to, the one with all the
math, and what you were saying about reducing the shunt field current for
low rpm HP, which is what I am after, and came to the conclusion that I am
not sure what will happen If I do this your way or the Ward-Leonard way,
which has a fixed shunt field, if I understand correctly. The info says the
Ward-Leonard way is used in elevators for good starting torque. Right now my
shunt field is connected in parallel to the series field and my controller
controls both. I wonder what will happen if I connect my shunt field
directly across the batteries without control and leave the series field on
the controller? The other thing I want to try is , which runs with your
advice , if I understand correctly is, modify my controller to control both
series and shunt fields so when I press the electric pedal the shunt field
is max and the series field is minimum and they both reverse as the electric
pedal is floored where the shunt field is minimum and the series field is
maximum. My ampmeter and some time this weekend should make me more sure.
Thanks for your time, Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Compound wound motors
Jack Knopf wrote:
Say I have my 12 HP compound wound motor wired for cumulative
compound. Is there any way to get any more HP from this motor
with ifferent wiring? Disconnect the shunt field maybe?
Hi Jack,
A compound wound motor is more versatile than a series motor -- you can
do more with it to adjust its torque/speed/hp curves.
At what speed do you want more horsepower? If you want it at low rpm,
you strengthen the influence of the series field (probably by reducing
the shunt field current). If you want more HP at high rpm, then weaken
the series field (use the shunt field to control power).
Keep in mind that if you want more HP out, you have to put more HP in.
That means more amps from your battery. The controller must be able to
deliver more amps, too. The motor will also generate more heat, so you
have to improve its cooling.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Funny Lee..
Correct me if I am wrong here... but reverse recovery is rather dominate
in the design of a Buck controller. AKA DC electrical Vehicle controller as
we know them.
I know that using a Ultra fast diode is pretty near suicidal in the design
of a controller. I have done it, and the heat that was made in the diodes
and the voltage spikes caused by the reverse recovery current spike
basically ruined a couple of my early design attempts.
So Motor grade Ultrafast soft recovery diodes are a must in the design
of a 20Khz hard switched power controller. AS the SiC diodes are being
touted as the nearly perfect diode with basically NO reverse recovery losses
at all, it seams to me and ...the authors of such articles in Power
electronics magazine, that SiC IS the coming diode flavor of choice. Infact
they show the improvements in a AC variable speed drive. Exactly what
production EVs and hybrids use for power conversion right now.
They may not be ready for Otmar and I right now in the cost performance
issues we have... but I would Kill to have a SiC in my center HF rectifier
diode. I am hunting better diodes as we speak.
Not that I expect to get a SiC diode but there are some newer platinum
diodes that are promising less forward losses and greatly reduced Trr,times
and much smoother reverse recovery wave forms.
It's important to note here that they are NOT perfect, and lossless, But the
improvements are supposed to be really impressive. Also the posted Temp
limits are only 175C up from 150C.
This helps, but doesn't by much smaller heatsinks.
Just DID my home work:
APT 2x61D60j 600 volts 60 amps per SIDE
Max peak Irrm is 38 amps. This is the
peak reverse recovery current bottom of trough.
A Trr of 80 Ns.
Apt Does have a nice PDF and a really neat diagram of What
reverse recovery really is. If you are not certain...surf on out and have a
look.
www.Advancedpower.com
www.Cree.com
Cree CSD20060 600 volt SiC 20 amps both legs.(10 amps a leg)
Max Rv per leg is 1000 MICRO amps.....How
many zeros less peak reverse current??? 3.8 times 10 to the -4
They claim NO reverse recovery time. Nill.
They have no chart to define their reverse
recovery specs and wave form references.
Ok so I get 4 powers of magnitude less reverse recovery current....Yea I
want this Kind of diode .... for reduced RF
Home work done... Can I still Drool over these devices????
The higher forward voltage drop at over 150 C is, a bit of a concern...I can
only hope when they scale this up to a 60 amp device, and that the high
current high temp conduction losses are less.
I suspect that most of my RF issues stem from the use of the diodes that I
currently use, and specifically the reverse recovery wave forms in the 80 Ns
range. A SiC may be the ticket to allow me to approach EC radiated emission
specs.
Clearly I will be doing my on going home work on What is a available and
what they can do for me.
Leapfrogging technology has allowed me to start with a 20 amp barely 5000
watt charger and now I can squeak 6600 watts from the same form factor case.
I And yes I think I can move 10,000 watts with water cooling and......
slightly better IGBTs and diodes. Same devices packages... better devices.
When a 80amp SiC twin pack SOT-227 diode gets to twice the cost of my
current diode(about $40) I intend to have them in the PFC charges. Then I
will judge them as a improvement or a extravagant use of modern silicon.
It looks like I can sustain better than %90 conversion efficiency from 150
VDC up to 450 now days. That's up by %5 in the last 90 days... with a newer
batch of Diodes and IGBTs. Nobody warned me I found out the hardway. I can
hold better than %95 230 Vac input to 400 VDC output. Basically a PFC30 can
hand you 500 watts more charge power from the same grid power it did 6
months ago.
Damn straight I am looking at better silicon.... It's a way of life.
Thanks for hacking me off enough to go out and see for myself.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: SiC Schottkys
> Seth Allen wrote:
> > for power conversion with a higher PWM frequency, they start to make
> > sense. 300V parts with some MOSFETs might be worth investigation for
> > some DC-DC converters or a motor that has a very high fundamental
> > frequency and not a lot of current.
>
> But, reverse recovery in a diode is not loss per se. It is if you hard
> switch, so a useless pulse of current shoots thru both the MOSFET and
> diode. But high frequency, high efficiency designs don't do this anyway.
> They use resonant or quasiresonant soft switching, or lossless snubbers,
> or other techniques to effectively eliminate these losses even with
> normal diodes.
>
> The reverse recovery current in a schottky diode is charging a
> capacitor, which is a lossless event. It only becomes a loss if your
> circuit simply dumps or burns up the energy stored in that capacitor.
>
> The only attraction I see with these SiC diodes is their ability to
> operate at extremely high temperatures. This makes them attractive for
> spacecraft and certain military hardware that must operate at these
> temperatures. But I don't see EVs in their future.
> --
> "The two most common elements in the universe
> are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are those cars really high dollar undertakings? $5k worth of orbitals
+ $5k work of motors + $5k worth of controller + $5k for the glider +
$5k for other stuff ($25k total) + lots of sweat equity means they
are still cheaper than any new gas car that could run those times. I
see the glass as more half full, you can actually be nationally
competitive for surprisingly cheap (relative to racing a gasser) with
an electric.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Let's face it, where is the incentive for people to go out and
> build a
> vehicle that would end up competing against Maniac Mazda, Gone
> Postal,
> White Zombie or the KillaCycle in order to win a record when
> setting a
> record is the only (official) reward one gets?
>
> The only reason for singling these vehicles out is that they all
> happen
> to be fairly high dollar undertakings that most hobbiests simply
> can't
> compete with. We can't all get sponsorship from a battery company
> or
> motor company, or controller company and this makes it difficult to
> compete with teams that can afford multiple motors and controllers,
> or
> batteries the rest of us can't.
> ...
=====
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to see about getting us some additional funding from "those
who have a lot of money" in the form of a donation.
What is something that you need that you currently don't have that
would take your EV to the "next level" and about how much does it
cost?
What is something where you think "If I only had a ______, I could
finally _____ ."
What is something that you don't have that you feel is currently
holding you back from making a lot of progress or keeping your EV from
being "really something"?
What is something that if you had it, it would really make a
difference and be a substantial improvement?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Why bother saving Factory EV's when you can convert a VW to electric
> power for around $2,000.00. I've been looking at the kit from
> http://www.e-volks.com/about.html and the simplicity & logic
> plus the fact that this would be a one weekend project makes me
> think that a simple plan that could be followed by many people
> might be more powerful than support from the big auto manufacturers.
It's a great idea, but I don't know enough about this particular kit to
say whether it actually works or is junk.
As you say, the old VW Beetles are an attractive "glider" due to their
simplicity. They are small and light, which scales down all the EV parts
needed, to keep the price low. If all you are striving for is NEV type
performance, it could indeed be a very simple and inexpensive
conversion.
I'm trying to imagine the "typical" person that wants to try an EV
conversion (if there is such a thing! :-) I see someone who is:
- sick and tired of the high cost of driving
- has serious environmental or political concerns with our present
imported-oil-based transportation system
- has a reasonable amount of mechanical skill
- likes "tinkering" with things to get them to work
- actually enjoys being a bit "different" from others
- already has an old car they would like convert
Now, what is stopping them from actually doing an EV conversion?
- doesn't have much money
- no good place to work on it
- lack of knowledge
- knows very little about EV parts
- fear of failure
The EV list goes a long way towards addressing these concerns. I think
once a person discovers the EV list, it goes a *long* way towards
encouraging them to proceed. Information is POWER!
But, the EV list isn't very good at providing *complete* information.
People are more likely to say "This is how I did it" rather than
describe "How *you* can do it" in sufficient detail so a beginner
actually *can* do it. Good directions are difficult to write!
A good conversion kit helps a lot, but they are only available for a few
specific vehicles. And (wouldn't you know it) many potential builders
don't happen to have (or are not interested in) those vehicles.
What I think would help is a more generic "basic parts kit" with all the
parts needed to convert any normal car. Companies like KTA have offered
them for years. But, to really get the builder to buy them, it would
have to include sufficiently detailed directions to make or get the
necessary specialized pieces needed for your specific vehicle at low
cost.
Things like the motor coupler and adapter plate. These are typically
quite expensive. There is no special reason that a motor coupler and
adapter plate cost $500. If you ordered 100 of them, they would be more
like $50 each. It's the specialized one-of-a-kind nature that causes the
high price.
I have noticed in my BEST EV projects that kids often come up with
expedient ways to solve difficult problems. They aren't perfect, but
they are "good enough". For instance, they cut to fit rather than
meticulously measure things. They scrounge cheap used parts that are
close enough, or can be modified to work. They use "tricks", like
putting the motor coupler on the motor itself, running the motor, and
holding a file against it to true it up or cut it down to fit.
I wonder if a motor coupler and adapter plate might be able to be
fashioned with similar techniques. Something a "guy in his garage" could
make with hand tools. Perhaps by using the vehicle's existing engine
block and crankshaft end as patterns (cut 'em off with a torch or
sawsall and use them?)
The goal is to provide sufficiently detailed instructions, that do not
require too many special skills or tools, and with sources and prices
for parts, so that a reasonable person can look it over and say, "Yes! I
can do that!"
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A while back, I saw on ebay an adapter for a VW conversion. This
adapter was made of (or at least looked like) cast aluminum. It also
seems that it had a web page about it hosted on an AOL server.
I've searched and searched and I can't find any trace of this item.
What I really want to know is, who did the casting for this adapter?
It seems like it had quite a history behind it.
Anyone have any info on this particular adapter?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
2 milliamps won't get you anywhere.
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Is there anyway this could be used for EV
R&D purposes?
http://www.unitednuclear.com/hvsupply.htm
---------------------------------
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Ryan Stotts wrote:
I'm going to see about getting us some additional funding from "those
who have a lot of money" in the form of a donation.
What is something that you need that you currently don't have that
would take your EV to the "next level" and about how much does it
cost?
What is something where you think "If I only had a ______, I could
finally _____ ."
uh, "manservant" and "swap batteries, get inspected, register and drive"
My regulators will be here next week. I have new batteries, new charger,
new controller already, none of which are swapped in. My plan is
everything but the controller, and then get it inspected.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Lee Hart wrote:
- no good place to work on it
Especially for pulling the engine and mounting and fastening the electric
motor. Most of the rest (except wiring which goes under the car) can be
done with precious little in terms of facilities. This is why I bought
something preconverted to retrofit newer equipment onto.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(pih: the solution is already with us)
>
> Hey Rich! Your politics are showing :^D
>
> Don't forget about that good old EVDL charter!
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
Don't worry I won't.
I see most of us have missed the point... Newsweek has actually said the "
Plug in Hybrid". word. Anybody have one yet..... Oh come on... Nobody
here has a EV?????
This most obvious solution to our current Energy issues, is EXACTLY what
this list is all about.
While we are all watching the Gasoline and Diesel cost get jacked up once
again, just in time for the warmer weather travel... We are checking the
State of our charge... and basicly enjoying EV power transportation, the
rest of the real world is just catching onto the fact that we don't have to
use much if any Fuels.... If we JUST had a plug in Hybrid....
Hello! Slap spank wakeup and Smell the Ozone!
Hey I gotta go get a EV gas pump shipped.... I don't want one of my clients
to have to Buy Gas Now Do I???
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(pih: the solution is already with us)
> > I would apologize for calling this guy a Lackey on a Open list.
>
> I do apologize for my strong characterization of the author. I am
> unaware of his work as I do not read Newsweek.
Maybe you should since it RAN in this week's Newsweek. I reread it last
night, Word for word.
This Guy just told the world About Plug in Hybrids... Why this list in not
feeling the ground shake beneath our feet is hard to fathom.
Most of the world thinks Hybrids are a final save all solution. Plug in
Hybrids with some kind of Fuel support IS the solution.
Of course if you can store all your driving needs, a EV pure and simple,
lets you move with Zero fuel.. but everybody on this list already knows
that....Don't we??
was responding to what
> appeared to me to be a completely ridiculous piece of writing nonsense.
> It seemed so fantastically over the top with it's claims and
> characterizations that I assumed it must be from a shill or some fringe
> author looking to make a name for himself. I clearly should have left
> the personal name calling out of it. I am sometimes a bit overly
> passionate when I come across the media trumpeting things that appear to
> be utter rubbish to me.
>
> I just last week attended a symposium at WWU on the subject of foreign
> oil reduction through the use of ethanol and methanol (among other
> options) and the data that was presented painted a very different
> picture than this writer laid out in his article. I also recently
> attended a major Green Power conference in Seattle that had a number of
> experts in this field saying many the same things as I asserted with the
> data to back it up.
>
> As this entire topic is pretty much off topic for this forum, if anyone
> wants to discuss my views on this subject, please contact me back
> channel.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
I am sure the list Gods are NOT going to slow us down when one of the
largest News Rags on the planet actually mentioned Plug in Hybrids.
Beware that the naysayer.... don't like ethanol.... I remember most of Idaho
trying to make EtOH in the 80s from surplus potatoes..... I have fond
memories of the 3 or 4 story reforming Still in the Chemical engineering Lag
at the U of Idaho... in the early 80s. THEY had plans to make a LOT Of EtOH.
Oh yea it was all Glass!!
Right now the world is full of folks preaching 1970 vintage energy concepts
and Dogma. They have forgotten that the world is 40 years older and
hopefully wiser. Wind was a Joke back then you can still see the rusting
vertical axis turbine just West of Ellensburg, and it's almost within sight
of the monster wind farms of the Yakima Valley. Using Standard layout
horizontal axis blades... One is a nifty 70s concept, that didn't work very
well, the New stuff is monster engineering done with serious solid concepts.
Guess which one made the Big time?
The 300 and 500 miles per gallon, References... are to how much Gasoline you
would use if a Gallon of Fuel only had %15 gasoline in it. The writer kinda
lost the line on this, Even I missed it until the second pass through. If I
had a Plug in Hybrid, and ran 450 miles EV mode, and used only 1 gallon of
gas of that 50 miles running when you came up short some lonely night out on
the highways. Then I would have traveled 500 miles on a Gallon of petro
based fuel. And if that gallon of fuel had even less petro base in
it....you get even more than 500....
The Solutions is with us,and has been for Decades, It's just cheaper the
send in the marines and secure it with force. Or just let Exxon do it...
--- End Message ---
