EV Digest 4212
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: American business model
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1 and Re: Rabbit replacement
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Riker Electric Vehicles Website
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: LM431 Mini-Me?
by Michael Shipway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) About Riker
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Open Source EV Kit
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: American buisness model is wrong (on topic, eventually)
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Meet George Jetson
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Power brakes (was power steering and AC)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: French regulations
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1 and Re: Rabbit replacement
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Renault LeCar
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: LM431 Mini-Me?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Open Source EV Kit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Renault LeCar
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Power brakes (was power steering and AC)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: wanted 48-54v(ish) programmable, 20A charger
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: NiCad Bonanza.....
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
by David Navas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, Let's take it a little further, to reduce cost, let's get a modern
flier, I have heard that complete cars in china are about 3.000 US$ brand
new, this price is the estimated price at which these cars will arrive next
year to Chile, so they must be at least 30% cheaper in China.
Take a look a them: http://www.geelymetop.com/c001.htm
So, le'ts get the whole car, without engine or tranny (or with tranny,
wichever, it's irrelevant), then (if the car is appealing fine, if not, the
fenders, hood and even doors could be made to change the looks.
Then we start a central purchasing office for all the fliers,the motors,
controllers, batteries, etc.
All the converters place their orders to this central purchasing office,
they get better prices, and this office buys but asks the things to be
delivered to all the small shops around the world.
Also, all the shops after a while could start financing the beginning of
more local converters (or factories).
It's a hell of a job, but it could be coordinated.
Imagine, the central office would be buying 100 or 200 motors controllers at
a time, they even could stock parts after a while, because manufacturers
would give them credit and lower prices.
Man I'm liking this more and more...
Ivo Jara G.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Ryan Bohm
Enviado el: s�bado, 19 de marzo de 2005 23:29
Para: EV List
Asunto: Re: American business model
Hi,
hehe...maybe the people that did the Voltsrabbit conversion saw how much
work it was and/or had spouses that forbade them from doing another
conversion :)
No, really...I love this idea! I think it could work if a couple
dedicated EV'ers did it right. My brother was in the autobody industry
for several years. He's a cop now, but still repairs cars for extra
cash. He's had lots of luck picking up wrecked Escorts (1997+) for
really cheap. He's got so many spare cars and parts lying around that
he can efficiently and cost-effectively put together affordable cars
that get bought up before they are finished. People generally like that
model of car.
If you did something similar - put together a conversion package with an
attractive vehicle, that had a range of 40-50 miles, got the cost in the
sub 10k - 15k range...I think you'd have yourself a business.
-Ryan
>> What if we took a hint from the open source movement with lots of
>> people working on an open design
>>
>> First we choose a common donar vehicle to create a kit for, getting
>> all of us to agree on a particular model may be fun, but by the time
>> we wittle it down, it should be a well rounded choice.
>> Each "franchise" builds this "kit" and there would be approved people
>> to work on it in multiple cities for repairs or upgrades
>> we avoid car carriers because donars are aquired locally. We avoid
>> safety testing because it is done already, We don't sell cars, we
>> sell the conversion kit installed in the customers donar, which we
>> also can sell them as a component of the kit on a seperate invoice?
>> We avoid shipping batteries because of weight, but there are local
>> distributers. As a collective group we could make a deal with Exide
>> for example to standardise the price and make dated sets avail to the
>> frenchises.
>
>
> Been there, tried that. We had what we called the "Pro-Mech
> Program". We trained professional mechanics (who paid for the
> training and travelled to our shop) to do conversions. We had a
> couple dozen of them around the country. They had the Voltsrabbit Kit
> (which at that time was a recent model car). Know what? Not a one of
> them built a single conversion for a customer. They would build one
> for themselves, and that's where it ended.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Shari Prange
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:38:18 -0600
> From: Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1 and Re: Rabbit
> replacement
<snip>
> 3) I was told that the Sunrise was engineered so that the suspension,
> steering, etc. was all stock parts off of a Metro or Prizm. This is not
> a problem if you're making two or three prototypes, but if you intend to
> go into production, how are you going to OEM these components?
Easy, go to the aftermarket. Build it around Honda or Toyota parts, and
then get those equivalents from the existing aftermarket. Sure, Wilwood
or Brembo brakes aren't cheap, but they're probably not much more
expensive than getting the equivalent OEM parts from a Honda supplier.
Besides, I bet the prices start to fall fast at 50 units--especially if their
name ends up on all the advertising.
Tim
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
True, and then there's still that whole "aerodynamics" problem. Now, if
they make a kit to drop, say, 800 to 1000 pounds from a Ranger, Tacoma
or S-10, they'd have my attention in a hurry!
Tim
----------
> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:19:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
> To: [email protected]
>
> US Body Source in Florida says their chevy full size truck fiberglass
> body lightens the truck by 1500 lbs! Imagine a 1-ton truck, minus 800
> lbs ICE stuff, minus 1500 lbs with the fiberglass body. Starting with
> a 4500 lb ICE truck, that would be a 2200 lb glider that could hold
> 4300 lbs! You could easily do an EV that was 50%+ batteries by
> weight.
>
> The downside is this is about 4 small EV's worth of batteries and
> motors! The cost would be high, and you would need some serious power
> to recharge overnight.
>
> --- Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I love the look of that year F-250. If it's anything like my '85
> > was, you could
> > fit lots of batteries under the cab and bed. Swap out your tires
> > for some
> > high pressure truck tires, put some airbags on it and you could
> > make a
> > Red Beastie-type conversion with a little more cab room.
> >
> > My F250 was about 4,800 pounds with fuel, but take out the 460, two
> > 19
> > gallons gas tanks, monster exhaust system, HD radiator and smog
> > pump,
> > downsize the A/C to a smaller unit (it's way too much for a single
> > cab),
> > and I think you could easily get the glider into the 3,500 lb.
> > range. Yours
> > is even more aero than mine, though.
> >
> > For your engine and genset range extender, you might be able to get
> > one
> > of those hitch-mounted shelves that people use to haul a motorcycle
> > or
> > ATV. Use a 3-cylinder Geo Metro engine and genset for your range
> > extender.
> >
> > Tim
> >
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/21/2005 1:49:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It is good to here from you. I only got yahoo and couldn't find your
website!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Again I have to disagree with you... The concept of using the people on this
list as a basis for the 'new' company came from this list. There is an
incredible wealth of info that flows back and forth here, and I am sure just as
much if not more in the private emails. I don't really know the circumstances
of how this list got started, but I would hazard a guess that it was a group of
people that wanted to disseminate information about EV's cause the private
sector wasn't sharing.
And that is exactly what you are proposing to do... make it private again.
Secret away the info so that if you don't 'join' the list you won't know why a
part was chosen over another. I have learned a lot here, and need to learn more
before I can start ordering parts, AC motor or DC motor, etc. By limiting your
'public' or members you risk not attracting a newbie that has attributes that
the group could benefit enormously from.
Anyway what is your purpose of making another list? Is that your conception of
'the next step', make a new list? Those are basically rhetorical questions and
really don't need answer.
Another reason to not create a new list is that it will be a new list on
everybody's emails and you can be sure that there will be an enormous amount of
cross posting... which in essence will create twice as many emails to handle.
People will start thinking that this would be good info for the 'other' list
and cross post it, so that people on both lists will get double copies and have
to delete the same message twice, or when they respond to it, the new message
will go out again to both lists... etc.
Why don't you wait and propose this again when we anti up our 1K 'membership'
fee. At that point we, as a legal entity, will probably 'have' to become
'private'. But for now let's keep this concept public and get as much input as
possible from all the members of this list.
Well that's my 2 cents worth, or should I say my 1/4 KW's worth...
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
> Hi Rush and All,
> --- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I agree with the great posts, but not at all with
>> the take it off list attitude. I may not participate
>> much in this discussion, but I would like to
>> participate in the company, or what ever it might be
>> called. And I am sure that there are many more
>> people like me just lurking out there waiting with
>> their 1K to throw down and say make me part of
>> it....
>
> Then you and others interested can join the new
> list letting this one help keep existing EV's or
> conversions and nubies do their thing without
> overloading them with stuff about commericalizing,
> producing EV's.
> Also many parts of producing production EV's
> wouldn't be on topic on this list which should be
> limited to conversions, keeping EV's on the road and
> educating nubies, ect on EV's.
> Many quit the EVDL from too many posts or don't
> join in the first place and some would only want to
> hear about producing EV's.
> Also many from the other lists like the EV-1,
> Force EV, ect would join the production EV list but
> don't want the volume of this list to wade through.
> By only having people interested in getting EV
> production lines going allows us to target posts to
> what's needed.
> So please join it when it opens, it will be easy.
> HTH's
> jerry dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
Is there a chip similar to the LM431 that has a 1.25V reference instead of
the LM431's 2.5V reference? I'm interested in making a circuit that will
tell me when a BB600 cell reaches 1.55V. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
looks like what you need is a LMV431, the "low voltage" variant of the chip.
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMV431.html
Here is the "General Description" from the datasheet:
"The LMV431, LMV431A and LMV431B are precision 1.24V
shunt regulators capable of adjustment to 30V. Negative
feedback from the cathode to the adjust pin controls the
cathode voltage, much like a non-inverting op amp configuration
(Refer to Symbol and Functional diagrams). A two
resistor voltage divider terminated at the adjust pin controls
the gain of a 1.24V band-gap reference. Shorting the cathode
to the adjust pin (voltage follower) provides a cathode
voltage of a 1.24V.
The LMV431, LMV431A and LMV431B have respective initial
tolerances of 1.5%, 1% and 0.5%, and functionally lends
themselves to several applications that require zener diode
type performance at low voltages. Applications include a 3V
to 2.7V low drop-out regulator, an error amplifier in a 3V
off-line switching regulator and even as a voltage detector.
These parts are typically stable with capacitive loads greater
than 10nF and less than 50pF."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They do make kits for the smaller trucks, but I don't know how much
weight it drops -- 800 lbs might be feasible.
--- Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> True, and then there's still that whole "aerodynamics" problem.
> Now, if
> they make a kit to drop, say, 800 to 1000 pounds from a Ranger,
> Tacoma
> or S-10, they'd have my attention in a hurry!
>
> Tim
>
> ----------
> > > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:19:43 -0800 (PST)
> > From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> > US Body Source in Florida says their chevy full size truck
> fiberglass
> > body lightens the truck by 1500 lbs! Imagine a 1-ton truck, minus
> 800
> > lbs ICE stuff, minus 1500 lbs with the fiberglass body. Starting
> with
> > a 4500 lb ICE truck, that would be a 2200 lb glider that could
> hold
> > 4300 lbs! You could easily do an EV that was 50%+ batteries by
> > weight.
> >
> > The downside is this is about 4 small EV's worth of batteries and
> > motors! The cost would be high, and you would need some serious
> power
> > to recharge overnight.
> >
> > --- Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > I love the look of that year F-250. If it's anything like my
> '85
> > > was, you could
> > > fit lots of batteries under the cab and bed. Swap out your
> tires
> > > for some
> > > high pressure truck tires, put some airbags on it and you could
> > > make a
> > > Red Beastie-type conversion with a little more cab room.
> > >
> > > My F250 was about 4,800 pounds with fuel, but take out the 460,
> two
> > > 19
> > > gallons gas tanks, monster exhaust system, HD radiator and smog
> > > pump,
> > > downsize the A/C to a smaller unit (it's way too much for a
> single
> > > cab),
> > > and I think you could easily get the glider into the 3,500 lb.
> > > range. Yours
> > > is even more aero than mine, though.
> > >
> > > For your engine and genset range extender, you might be able to
> get
> > > one
> > > of those hitch-mounted shelves that people use to haul a
> motorcycle
> > > or
> > > ATV. Use a 3-cylinder Geo Metro engine and genset for your
> range
> > > extender.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:06 PM 3/20/05 -0600, you wrote:
Hi folks,
I just had a thought from all these EV production/kit/conversion
discussions of late. How about a kind of open source kit? What I have in
mind is say 3 to 5 folks getting together and selecting a common donor
car, say a Dodge Neon or Toyota Echo for example. After common
brainstorming to get a picture of just what the basic concept should be,
each would take over one aspect of the conversion, design a solution,
produce it and document it.
You can't effectively do these designs in isolation. The clearance between
the motor mount and the battery rack may be a fraction of an inch, for
example. One of the bigger parts of the conversion process is making sure
THIS piece doesn't interfere with THAT piece.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:25 PM 3/19/05 -0800, you wrote:
I had no idea you had done that, When was that? 80's?
No, '90s. We only pulled it a couple of years ago, due to lack of
interest. While we WERE doing it, we did booths at auto service trade
shows, and seminars at same, and advertised in trade journals. Response
was miniscule.
To do this as a business, auto mechanic experience is essential. Also,
there is a big difference between converting one car, and productionizing
parts so they can be fabricated identically over and over, and shipped
blind across the country to be installed by people who have never seen an
electric car before.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Folks
It is only Monday and I think we have found our winner for
wingnut-of-the-week email.
One of my favorite aspects of the EV business is the wide variety of
individuals from all over the world I get to talk with and/or email with
everyday.
Mondays are usually "over-unity wingnut day".
Enjoy! :^D
------------------------
Why not use the new Japanese ultra-capacitors or super-capacitors with a
resistor circuit to prevent dumping all the power at once? They would be
smaller , lighter,carry a larger energy level and most likely last much
longer than any battery on the market? Also if you wanted to, you could
release all the energy all at once for that extra power boost for passing or
hill climbing. Not only can they release all their energy fast they can be
charged very fast. NASA is considering using ultra-capacitors to replace
all batteries on the next versions of the MARS rovers,and Honda intends to
use capacitors to replace the battery banks. What else do you need to
improve to make it a more viable vehicle or equivalent to existing vehicles
without all the pollution and heavy gas and oil costs involved? I believe
radical changes are necessary to all existing vehicles. First off they need
to lose the wheels and suspensions and braking devices. None of these
assemblies are necessary. If this is too radical let me know. They should
float one to two feet off the nominal ground surface using an ionic field
for repulsion. Thrust and braking can be accomplished using ionic repulsion
as well. A Diode reactor can supply more than sufficient power necessary for
any and all power demands the vehicle could possibly make. This would
require a sliver of nuclear fuel and it would reduce the nuclear waste
deposits that are currently accumulating and waiting for long term disposal.
Since the vehicles do not require expensive road surfaces the savings will
be enormous, because the only infra-structure that would be needed to be
built would be tunnels and bridges to progress over water or thru hills and
mountains .Clearing of land of trees and large obstacles will still be
required. Of course this will mean the end of the tire industry and brake
and suspension manufacturers as well, but it will generate new industries
creating new propulsion systems and lift designs. If safety considerations
are a concern the Diode reactor is very small and can be incased in an
indestructable containment unit so that in the event of a worst case senario
the radioactive material will not be released to the overall environment.
The ride quality will be superb and handling will be instantly reactive and
positive. Acceleration will equal aircraft plotted curves. The next step
will be gravity neutralization or nullification which NASA is presently
investigating even now. When this is available massive weights can and will
be moved great distances with total ease. Leaving this gravity well will be
done with the heaviest payloads imaginable. Transport in the future will be
vastly different from today in so many ways that little will be left that is
still recognisable.
------------------------
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill wrote:
>>It was just a mounting problem. The stock master cylinder's bolt pattern
attached fine to the booster, but not to the firewall. The bolt pattern on
the Honda cylinder was a perfect match. But then the Honda cylinder had
only one line coming out of its front chamber, whereas the Metro's original
one had had two. So I used a splitter from a Toyota to split it into two.<<
That is a very interesting idea. How does the bore of the Honda master
cylinder compare to the Metro one? This affects the leverage as much as the
pedal ratio does. Ideally, the Honda one would have a *slightly* smaller
bore (to reduce effort slightly), but not so much smaller that in the event
of a 1/2 brake failure the pedal would hit the floor before you got solid 2
wheel braking.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yes it would be cheaper to import from you, i heard about a peugeot 205
conversion made by a UK company, they are gone now :^(
SP95 is 1,05 euros/liter here
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: French regulations
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 19:45:53 +0100, Philippe Borges
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So converting to EV in Norway and importing it to France would be a
solution
> > though expensive, a true one.
>
> We are certainly allowed to convert EVs here in the UK, even make from
> scratch. We also have very cheap second hand car market at the
> moment, and very expensive petrol (apparently it will soon be >�1 per
> litre!). So it is a bit strange that there are very few conversions
> running about.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Hudson wrote:
> 1) They had a prototype in their shop that had a really cool battery
> setup. There was a big, removable, rectangular battery box that ran
> under the car, sliding in kind of like the battery pack in a
> rechargeable drill. The pack actually had rollers on the bottom so that
> it could slide in and out of the car easily -- Changing out a battery
> pack was absurdly simple. It seems to me this was on a Sunrise but it's
> possible it was another prototype.
This was the scheme that Bob McKee used in the 1974-80 Sundancers. I
also fell in love with it, and used it myself in my next EV. It worked
out very well.
In the Sundancers, the battery box was actually the main structural
member for the car. With the pack removed, the car was half the weight!
In my version, the frame stayed in the car. I had rollers on the frame,
so the battery box was a simple box that rolled out the rear on these
rollers. I used a floor jack to pick up the rear end, rolled it out, and
caught the front end on a wheeled dolly. The pack could then easily be
rolled around on its wheels, serviced, replaced or whatever.
> 2) The only real drawback I can see to the monococque Sunrise body is
> that if the car was in a moderate collision, with damage to the
> structure, repairing it could be difficult or impossible, making a
> relatively minor collision a "total".
Probaby true; but that's not as big a deal as it would be for a normal
steel unibody. You would probably buy another body, and transfer all the
good parts to it. Depending on where the VIN# goes, you might even get a
new car that way :-)
> 3) I was told that the Sunrise was engineered so that the suspension,
> steering, etc. was all stock parts off of a Metro or Prizm. This
> is not a problem if you're making two or three prototypes, but if
> you intend to go into production, how are you going to OEM these
> components?
This is probably the best way to get parts until you get up to 100 or so
cars. Then, it would pay to have your own parts designed and machined.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I have never seen the brakes on a renault le-car but if I remember
> correctly from school, there are 2 kinds of disk brake calipers out
> there, single acting and double acting
The LeCar has single-acting.
> The single acting are the most common and have piston or pistons on one
> side and a floating caliper, the whole caliper must move to release the
> rear pad. On these, clean and well greased guide pins are important.
Ideally, yes. But as a practical matter, they can't stay clean and
free-floating for long. So, while there is no pressure clamping the pads
against the rotors, one pad or the other is *always* dragging on the
rotor. Thus the inevitable brake drag.
> I don't know if wilwood brakes can be retrofitted to the LeCar,
> it is not listed on their site. Does it share brake systems with
> other cars or are there other models that have better calipers
> you can swap in?
I don't know.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Bill Dennis wrote:
> Is there a chip similar to the LM431 that has a 1.25V reference
> instead of the LM431's 2.5V reference? I'm interested in making
> a circuit that will tell me when a BB600 cell reaches 1.55V.
I don't know of a drop-on replacement, but there are plenty of
equivalents (basically, a simulated 1.2v "zener"). For example,
+cell_________________________________
| | |
> | > R3
> R1 | > 0.5 ohm
> 10k |/ emitter > 5 watts
|____________| Q1: 2N404 etc. |
| base | PNP germanium |
| |\ collector |/ collector
\_|_ |_____________| Q2: 2N3055 etc.
/_\\ D1: | base | NPN silicon transistor
| LM385-1.2 > R2 |\ emitter
| 1.2v "zener" > 1k |
-cell__|______________|_______________|
The LM385 regulates at 1.235v. The germanium transistor has a
base-emitter drop of 0.3v, so this circuit clamps at 1.535v.
A single germanium power transistor could be used, but they are
expensive; so I used a cheaper small-signal germanium with a separate
cheap silicon NPN power transistor.
With the values shown, this circuit will bypass about 2 amps (mainly
determined by R3).
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Mark Farver wrote:
> Each power supply should have a series diode on its output, and outputs
> of the diodes can be connected in parallel. This prevents one supply
> from sending power into another supply.
Yes; and the diodes also produce a small voltage drop, so each power
supply can be adjusted to share the load equally.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Mike Chancey wrote:
> I just had a thought from all these EV production/kit/conversion
> discussions of late. How about a kind of open source kit? What I
> have in mind is say 3 to 5 folks getting together and selecting
> a common donor car, say a Dodge Neon or Toyota Echo for example.
> After brainstorming to get a picture of what the basic concept
> should be, each would take over one aspect of the conversion,
> design a solution, produce it and document it...
>
> What do you think?
It's a great idea, but it all hinges on the particular individuals being
able to agree and work together.
I see EVers as somewhat like farmers. They *like* to work by themselves,
be their own boss, make all their own decisions without having to
consult with anyone. This makes them strongly resistant to getting
organized.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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> The single acting are the most common and have piston or pistons on one
side and a floating caliper, the whole caliper must move to release the
rear pad. On these, clean and well greased guide pins are important.
Ideally, yes. But as a practical matter, they can't stay clean and
free-floating for long. So, while there is no pressure clamping the pads
against the rotors, one pad or the other is *always* dragging on the
rotor. Thus the inevitable brake drag.
I often worried about that, thinking that I didn't want a floating
caliper on a EV.
But now I also own a Honda Insight. It's the only 1 finger car I've
seen (takes 1 finger to roll it both directions on a flat surface)
and it has floating calipers on the front. I don't know if Honda did
anything special, but they seem to have done something right.
Might be worth some research.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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I like seeing a discussion about a big pickup conversion. It seems like
there ought to be a niche for a short-range heavy hauler. I've always
dismissed the idea in my thoughts because I thought they were too
heavy at about 6000 lbs. But if one weighs only 4800 lbs then the idea
looks more attractive.
Does anyone have data about weights of F-250s and similar trucks? They
must vary considerable depending on whether or not they features like
extended or crew cabs, four wheel drive, Diesel engines, etc.
If you are interested in electric trucks, check out Canadian Electric
Vehicles at:
http://www.canev.com/
You can see a variety of trucks at their site. An unusual truck I found
interesting
was their Might-E Truck which uses a shortened aluminum postal van body
for its cab.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
Hi John,
I love the look of that year F-250. If it's anything like my '85 was, you
could
fit lots of batteries under the cab and bed. Swap out your tires for some
high pressure truck tires, put some airbags on it and you could make a
Red Beastie-type conversion with a little more cab room.
My F250 was about 4,800 pounds with fuel, but take out the 460, two 19
gallons gas tanks, monster exhaust system, HD radiator and smog pump,
downsize the A/C to a smaller unit (it's way too much for a single cab),
and I think you could easily get the glider into the 3,500 lb. range.
Yours
is even more aero than mine, though.
For your engine and genset range extender, you might be able to get one
of those hitch-mounted shelves that people use to haul a motorcycle or
ATV. Use a 3-cylinder Geo Metro engine and genset for your range
extender.
Tim
--------
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:04:38 -0800
To: [email protected]
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
Frankly, I am considering such a conversion. Not quite at the Hummer
level
though.
I'm looking at a Ford F-250. My 93 model has a 4400lb payload
capacity. This is high enough that I can put 2000 lbs of battery in it,
and still have a useful payload size.
I'd really like to get the numbers to figure out what kind of range I
could
get if I used 40 T-145's, Z(1or2)K, and a couple of 8/9/11 inch
motors. (Which motor would be "best"? Do I really need a Z2K, or would
a
Z1K be enough?)
I've been starting to gather the numbers to figure out the cost, but I
also
need to find out what "other" items are needed. (How many contactors of
what type?, Power Steering/Brakes/Air Conditioning
setups? DC-DC? Probably a PFC-50)
With this kind of size and payload, I could afford to have a slide in
module with a 4cyl car engine and a 20KW gen set to extend the range.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
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I don't have the bore information on either one. Once the car is on the
road, I'll need to do some parking lot testing with one then the other of
the cylinders disabled.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Power brakes (was power steering and AC)
Bill wrote:
>>It was just a mounting problem. The stock master cylinder's bolt pattern
attached fine to the booster, but not to the firewall. The bolt pattern on
the Honda cylinder was a perfect match. But then the Honda cylinder had
only one line coming out of its front chamber, whereas the Metro's original
one had had two. So I used a splitter from a Toyota to split it into two.<<
That is a very interesting idea. How does the bore of the Honda master
cylinder compare to the Metro one? This affects the leverage as much as the
pedal ratio does. Ideally, the Honda one would have a *slightly* smaller
bore (to reduce effort slightly), but not so much smaller that in the event
of a 1/2 brake failure the pedal would hit the floor before you got solid 2
wheel braking.
Paul G.
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At 12:18 PM 3/21/2005, you wrote:
Does anyone have data about weights of F-250s and similar trucks? They
must vary considerable depending on whether or not they features like
extended or crew cabs, four wheel drive, Diesel engines, etc.
I think I found my data on kbb.com.
My 93 F-250, SuperCab, Long Bed.
Weight: 4316
Payload: 4655
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How low do you need to go to?
Seth Allen wrote:
Need to charge SAFT 100Ah cells and was looking for an isolated,
programmable 20A charger. Brusa doesn't go that low. Needs to have the
ability to program any profile I want (within reason).
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Seth
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Tom Shay wrote:
> But if one weighs only 4800 lbs then the idea
> looks more attractive.
>
> Does anyone have data about weights of F-250s and similar trucks? They
> must vary considerable depending on whether or not they features like
> extended or crew cabs, four wheel drive, Diesel engines, etc.
1990-96 Ford F-150/250 Pickup
Curb weights:
ext. cab short bed - 4186 lbs
reg. cab long bed - 3982 lbs
reg. cab short bed - 3886 lbs
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2035/act/usedcarreviewspecs/
If the motor(V8) has a cast iron block with cast iron heads, it alone
could weigh 600+ lbs..
Anyone ever had the bed off a truck? What's an estimation on how much
it weighs? What is the thickness of the metal for the floor of a
truck bed? 3/16"? What's the weight of the front and rear bumpers?
Seems like it would be easy to drop a lot of weight off a truck.
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Rush wrote:
> I agree with the great posts, but not at all with the take it off
> list attitude. I may not participate much in this discussion, but
> I would like to participate in the company, or what ever it might
> be called.
Frankly, I think we *have* to take it off list (and probably off email
as well) if we ever expect to get anything done. Too many times, reading
and writing email replaces "real work". It's so easy to just sit there,
staring at the screen. It's seductive; it feels like you're getting
things done. But all that is happening is that the time keeps slipping
away...
I have visions of people standing on the Titanic after it has hit the
iceberg; talking, discussing, debating, arguing endlessly on as the ship
sinks. Denial ("This ship will never sink"). Blaming ("It's all their
fault. We should sue!"). Expecting someone else to solve the problem for
you ("Let's just follow orders. I'm sure those in charge know what's
best"). And the "techies" would be arguing about whether to build a raft
out of deck chairs, or a balloon out of the bedsheets.
Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to DO something! Detroit won't save us.
The government won't save us. They are part of the problem, not the
solution!
What I propose is a conference; a convention. We agree to get together
physically, somewhere, somehow, to start seriously discussing what to
do. Form an organization to start DOING what needs to be done!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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http://www.alcad.com/
Rick wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Rick, do you know the manufacturer?
Hi Bill,
They simply are marked Alcad. Some have warning lables about gas hazards and
some seem to be imprinted with Made In Holland.
So, does anyone know where I can find info about charging/cycling, etc.?
Thanks.
Regards,
Rick
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Someone [could not recover ill-quoted material] wrote:
>>The Sunrise is a remarkable EV, in many ways a much more sophisticated
>>design than the EV-1.
>(finger in mouth, gaggg) Better than an EV-1? I don't think David meant
it
>was a better car than an EV1.
I think there are two fundamentally different ways to go, and nothing is
going to please everyone. You can go for practical -- a truck with
seating
for the family, or you can go racy -- plenty of power, but no GVWR left
for seating for five. Everything is a compromise, and there are
definitely
steps in between (a two door, four seater with power would be my halfway
point).
I think it might be better to throw out a couple of sketched designs and
see which ones attract attention. BTW -- has anyone figured out where
UEV (http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/products.html) is with any
of their products?
Here is what I'm looking for:
1) four seats. Two in the back for kids -- need not seat 6' adults
1a) anywhere, for that matter -- I'm only 5'4", and I'm the tallest
in the family.
2) 0-60 < 8s
3) At least 100mi range
4) <$40k
In some of my crazier moments, I toy with the idea of 13" Warps, and
unobtainium lithiums, and throwing the whole thing into a Noble. In
my more sane days, I'd like to grab one of the 3-door Saturn SCs and
convert them, and wish that Valence was shipping a U-charge system
with at least 50% higher energy density, and about four times the power.
Or an affordable Kokam with a BMS attached to it....
<sigh>
-Dave
__________________________________
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Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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