EV Digest 4214
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: GE Motor specs? and GE SEM control parts.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Getting more EV's on the road
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: power brakes and vacuum
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Yahoo EVList
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Getting more EV's on the road
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Transmisson plate adapters
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Yahoo EVList
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: GE Motor specs? GE control spec
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: LM431 Mini-Me?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: GE Motor specs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: GE Motor specs? and GE SEM control parts.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Transmisson plate adapters
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: GE Motor specs? and GE SEM control parts.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next step
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next step
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Riker Electric Vehicles Website
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: wanted 48-54v(ish) programmable, 20A charger
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Yahoo EVList
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Getting more EV's on the road
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Finally...the 200sx 0-60 time and T-shirt winners
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: GE Motor specs?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next step
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: LM431 Mini-Me?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Question for the battery gods
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Finally...the 200sx 0-60 time and Otmars control
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The GE SX600 SEM control has 18 FET's in parallel from
the motor negative to ground and another 18 FET's in
parallel with the motor (for freewheel
current/synchronous configuration). I figure we can
use 250V FET's for a 144V configuration, something
like the FQA55N25 with Rds on of 40mOhm.
Nobody seems to have stock on TO-247 FET's in this
range.
This setup should give 600Amps current limit with
lot's
of safety margin.
The field circuit uses 8 more of this same FET.
I'm looking for 44 150V FET's in a TO-247 package for
my golf cart project, anybody have parts they want to
trade for my other EV stuff (BLDC motors, tons of 60V
high current FET's, 600V IGBT's in TO-247 etc).
Thanks,
Rod
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod is working on a modified controller for me. Do
> you think 500 amps
> will be enough?
> Mike
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> >M.G. wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I forgot to mention this motor is a separately
> excited motor.
> >>The fields have approx ten times the windings and
> use 1/10 the
> >>current as a series wound motor.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >That is even better!
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve and All,
--- STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > If you are good at doing that type of work, do
> > one for yourself, make a website and offer them
> for
> > sale at a price you can make a profit at. Luckily
> the
> > second one and those after both cost less and are
> > easier to do so getys more profitable as it goes
> > along.
>
> I was talking to Jon www.grassrootsev.com web master
> about a part of the
> site being a directory of people who would like to
> do conversions for
> people. So anyone anywhere could find somebody near
> them to convert their
> car or pickup .
> ads might look like this
>
> Steve Clunn . Fort Pierce Fl.
>
> I've converted these cars
> http://www.grassrootsev.com/convert.htm
> I have all the tools needed and a place to convert
> your car
> I can work with you , doing only the part you can't,
> saving you money, or do
> the whole thing
> I would be willing to do this for $25 per hour
> 772 971-0533
Interesting idea! I might take you up on it. Though
I'd more like to repair ones already built or build
from scratch.
>
>
>
> > This works easily if you want the first one
> for
> > yourself as you would have little extra costs
> except
> > for a website and some time. And for customer in a
> > rush you can sell yours
>
> This was my idea years ago , what made me start
> building on spec was that
> itch to build another. My though was If I have
> another than I could make
> some deal , any deal , and a ev would be out their
> in the world , crying
> look at me , people would see it and " oh look at
> that , it works" , The
> person driving it , with the big ev grin would be
> advertising , and I could
> build another , even better. I rented my ev 2 out to
> many people , for $10 a
> day , and as they drove it and showed it off to
> people , it touched may more
> people that with just me driving it.
> while 2 was out I could work and drive no 3 .
I learned long ago if you don't want to get
stuck, you build on order unless you can do it very
cheaply. Doing spec work is very risky as you have
found out..
>
>
> . This puts you in the drivers
> > seat in selling them instead of them trying to
> steal
> > one from a despreate seller like they did to Steve
> > Clunn.
>
> I'm desperate again today , the guy with the two
> Russian trucks , that where
> shipped here new without engines or tranns ,
> shipping weight 1350lbs , came
> by and said he'll take $600 , these's are new , a
> few small problems , they
> have no title, but what a place to start. As for the
That's no problem here in Fla if you have the
shipping into the country papers and a bill of sale.
But if it's been titled before and you don't have a
title, not good!!!
But I'd worry where you would get spare parts so
would be wary of this.
> Ranger being stolen ,
> That whole deal still worked out , not money wise
> but , they showed the
> truck off and drove it all summer , somebody I new
> here in Florida that
> moved up to N. C. went and got the truck . he's
> fixing it up and getting in
> on the whole EV experience, when he gets to running
> good he thinks he knows
> somebody that will make some monthly payments .
In the next few months it would be best to sell it
for cash, not payments as the market soon will be
quite good. Gas is going up another $.15 in the next 2
weeks!
>
>
> > But EV's are going up in price as few are on
> the
> > market so it should sell for a profit if done
> right.
>
> as pointed out before , every time the gas prices go
> up there is a wave of
> interest , each one getting bigger and bigger , .
> When we're talking about "
> a profit" I think ev's are right up there with
> playing music for a living
> ( not talking about big stars , but the little guy
> playing in the bars ) .
> BUT as for being an exciting adventure , fast
> changing , and right in the
> for front of whets happening , its there.
That kind of excitment is too much for me as I have
very limited income. Your's should be fairly good
after the hurricanes I'd imagine.
>
> > Another thing is selling an EV kit to other F-5
> or
> > other Cobra buyers who want to do their own as
> another
> > income source.
>
> I wonder how many rabbits Mike Brown did before he
> made his kit.? There's a
> lot to think about , which model is going to be most
> popular / easiest to do
> ect
>
> > But I wouldn't build one on spec. And make sure
> > there is a at least 50% deposit on one before you
> > start!
>
> My last conversion really got me thinking about your
> car , the 1930 Mercedes
> gazelle kit car is a lot lighter that most , but
> still a big pig compared to
> your wood=e . Being so light is what makes it fly
> , now if you could make
> a light EV under 1500 with 20 orbital 1k zill and 8'
> motor , Jerry you
> should have 2 models , the go fast and the go far.
Planning on 3, econo, long range and sporty.
>
>
> >> How about in the case of one of these Cobra kit
> >> cars? Ten grand right
> >> off the bat for the kit. When the conversion is
> >> said and done, would
> >> this thing be a money pit or would it be able to
> be
> >> sold for what it
> >> was worth?
> >>
> It sounds like you would like this car , so build it
> , put it for sale , and
> drive it and enjoy it while its selling , sounds
> easy. :-)
>
> >> http://www.factoryfive.com/
> >>
> >> I would like to do some high quality conversions
> and
> >> get them on the
> >> road. I have plenty of time, a garage, tools,
> and
> >> I'm confident that
> >> I could do it. Is it financially prudent though?
> why not e mail me your EV converter ad , and Jon
> will put it on the
> www.grassrootsev.com web site , And you to Jerry ,
> There just might be people out there looking for
> your help .
> Steve clunn
Thanks Steve,
jerry dycus
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My vacuum pump is also the noisiest part of the EV.
How about combining the best of both worlds? Use a mechanical pump like Bob
Rice for it's quiet
performance. Have it supply a holding tank so it doesn't have to run
continuously. Drive it off
the other end of the main motor but use an air conditioning type electric
clutch. The holding tank
would have high/low switches to cycle the pump on demand. Would this work?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1--let's go to the next
step
> Rush wrote:
>> I don't know how many of you are on the EVList from yahoo,
>
> Which list would that be?
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just fielding this out and getting a rough idea here in an attempt to
see if this is even feasible.
Example:
Right now on Ebay is a 1999, 5 speed, 2 door Neon for $2200.
ADC or WarP 8" for $1200 (9" for $1400)
1k Zilla - $1975
PFC20 - $1500
144volts - 12 Orbitals $100 each / $1200 total (voltage completely
subject to change. 192 volts for example.)
$280 for a 40amp DC/DC? http://www.powerstream.com/DC-HV.htm
So what has this $2200 Neon suddenly turned into? Looks like $8355.
Still have materials cost for the battery racks and all the needed
cable, wire, and lugs. What's a ballpark figure for that stuff? What
gauge cable would you use for battery interconnects, and for
connection to the charger, controller, and motor? Anyone got a line
on a proper state of charge gauge and an ammeter(link to / price)?
Let's say this vehicle ends up costing $12,000 or $14,000. Sure I
could put it up for sale at that, but would anyone ever buy it for
that amount? It would have all the receipts so it would add up to
whatever amount.
I'm not looking to turn a profit on it, I just don't want to take a
loss on it(can't afford too). After it is sold, I'd like to build
another, and another.. Not just Neons either. For me, the fun is in
building them. I will eventually build one(or more..) for myself as
money allows(in the process of getting a "real job" right now, (A&P
license) ).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't all manufacturers have CAD dwgs of the transmission and the motor? Would
it be possible to have access to the drawings so that if a new adapter plate is
needed all you need to do is pull up the cad dwgs of the appropriate pieces,
merge them and send it to a machine shop to have it CNC'd?
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> If done correctly I don't see why we can't have motor
> adapters that adapt many differnt motors to the transmission adapter
> plate DC8",DC9"/AC Siemans/MEA etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/
Redirects me too:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList
Sports?
Category: Archery ?
Description: chaumet watches chopard watches citizen watch ?
What in the world, why's it like that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They use STW60N10 FET's in the 48V version.
That's 18 FET's in parallel with Rds on of 25mOhm max.
They may have done life testing on the control at the
customers specified current limit of 600A and found it
passed with flying colors. Later, another customer or
a higher capacity truck required more current so they
life tested it again at the 740Amps and it passed
again with thermal margin in a 40C ambient.
They may have made other improvements in the gate
drive circuit and found switching losses were lower,
so they could increase current limit with the same
losses.
All speculation, but I would trust the published
rating assuming they still do life cycle testing like
they did when I worked there.
Mark Hanson probably knows, I'm sure he was there when
the SX600 power base was developed.
Rod
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It gets even more interesting when I look at the
> controllers. I have
> several of these controllers and some are marked 600
> amps @ 48 volts,
> but others are marked 740 amps @ 48 volts. I took
> them apart and the
> fet's are the same number, What could be different
> other than programming?
> Mike G.
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> >M.G. wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I forgot to mention this motor is a separately
> excited motor.
> >>The fields have approx ten times the windings and
> use 1/10 the
> >>current as a series wound motor.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >That is even better!
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
The trouble with this circuit is that it will bypass 2A
(or whatever R3 alloes) only when D1 voltage fully exceeds
D1 breakdown. On slow charge this does not happen and if
you built this you will see that Q2 opens gradually and
will spend considerable time in its active region with
the same 0.5 Ohm resistance thus dissipating the same
power as R3.
That is OK though, but
1 - makes R3 pointless if Q2 can handle it as well
(and it *has* to)
2 - this circuit will *not* prevent voltage
rise above 4.25V even if Q2 has zero resistance
if a charging current is still larger than about 8A
which may or may not be an issue.
(we're not discussing [easy] means to prevent this, we're
analyzing the circuit below as is. 'Course anything can be
fixed or improved).
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
Bill Dennis wrote:
Is there a chip similar to the LM431 that has a 1.25V reference
instead of the LM431's 2.5V reference? I'm interested in making
a circuit that will tell me when a BB600 cell reaches 1.55V.
I don't know of a drop-on replacement, but there are plenty of
equivalents (basically, a simulated 1.2v "zener"). For example,
+cell_________________________________
| | |
> | > R3
> R1 | > 0.5 ohm
> 10k |/ emitter > 5 watts
|____________| Q1: 2N404 etc. |
| base | PNP germanium |
| |\ collector |/ collector
\_|_ |_____________| Q2: 2N3055 etc.
/_\\ D1: | base | NPN silicon transistor
| LM385-1.2 > R2 |\ emitter
| 1.2v "zener" > 1k |
-cell__|______________|_______________|
The LM385 regulates at 1.235v. The germanium transistor has a
base-emitter drop of 0.3v, so this circuit clamps at 1.535v.
A single germanium power transistor could be used, but they are
expensive; so I used a cheaper small-signal germanium with a separate
cheap silicon NPN power transistor.
With the values shown, this circuit will bypass about 2 amps (mainly
determined by R3).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M.G. wrote:
> Rod is working on a modified controller for me. Do you think 500 amps
> will be enough?
Frankly, no. The data you provided from the nameplate said 330 amps, 1
hour. To have reasonable accelleration, you are going to want a
controller that can deliver *at least* two times this much current, and
even 3 times would not be too much for 5 minutes at a time.
Also, you will want to raise the pack voltage to *at least* 72v, or
you'll never get enough rpm out of this motor for reasonable speeds.
And I'm not even a hot-rodder. Ask the racers what they would feel
comfortable hitting this motor with!
That's going to be a nice motor. You'll have gobs of torque, and easy
regen.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> The GE SX600 SEM control has 18 FET's in parallel from
> the motor negative to ground and another 18 FET's in
> parallel with the motor (for freewheel
> current/synchronous configuration). I figure we can
> use 250V FET's for a 144V configuration, something
> like the FQA55N25 with Rds on of 40mOhm.
> Nobody seems to have stock on TO-247 FET's in this
> range.
> This setup should give 600Amps current limit with
> lot's
> of safety margin.
> The field circuit uses 8 more of this same FET.
> I'm looking for 44 150V FET's in a TO-247 package for
> my golf cart project, anybody have parts they want to
> trade for my other EV stuff (BLDC motors, tons of 60V
> high current FET's, 600V IGBT's in TO-247 etc).
I assume you are using many devices in parallel for economic reasons
(cheaper than a small number of larger MOSFETs)?
The TO-247 is not as popular a package as (for example) TO-220. Have you
considered using a larger number of TO-220 parts to get the same
equivalent ratings?
Or, just "step up to the bar" and pay the extra cash for a smaller
number MOSFETs in a higher-power package. I like the Isotop SO-227 for
example. They are much more expensive per watt than TO-247, but much
easier to use . And it only adds maybe $50 to the cost of a $1000
controller to use them. When I'm only building a few, the extra cost is
worth the simplified construction and heatsinking.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> Would it be possible to have access to the drawings so that if a new adapter
> >plate is needed all you need to do is pull up the cad dwgs of the
> appropriate >pieces, merge them and send it to a machine shop to have it
> CNC'd?
There's a pretty nice list of "off the shelf" adapters here:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
~$750 though.. :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
I'm using the existing GE control hardware (heatsinks,
packaging, PCB etc) so changing the package type is
not an option. GE uses the exact same control for
72-80V forklifts, they just change the FET's,
Capacitors and a couple of resistors. I previously
worked at GE and I'm familiar with the circuitry, so I
don't think it will be much of a problem to push this
up to 144Vdc system voltage.
TO-247's are not a popular or cheap package, but I'm
stuck with the hardware I have.
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> > The GE SX600 SEM control has 18 FET's in parallel
> from
> > the motor negative to ground and another 18 FET's
> in
> > paralle
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Rush and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rush wrote:
> > I agree with the great posts, but not at all with
> the take it off
> > list attitude. I may not participate much in this
> discussion, but
> > I would like to participate in the company, or
> what ever it might
> > be called.
But once we get into the details most of it would
be glider parts, details, financing, organizing which
are OT on the list as it should be and no one would be
left out as all they would have to do is join the new
list.
>
> Frankly, I think we *have* to take it off list (and
> probably off email
> as well) if we ever expect to get anything done. Too
> many times, reading
> and writing email replaces "real work". It's so easy
> to just sit there,
> staring at the screen. It's seductive; it feels like
> you're getting
> things done. But all that is happening is that the
> time keeps slipping
> away...
The only problem with your way Lee is we could
never get together for such a conference. And there
would have to be many conferences. We are just too
spread out.
Also we will need a lot of votes to decide things
and should restrict those votes to those who are
actually going to pay in and do the work.
We could do a lot with dues lower than EAA
ones!!!!
If we do it like a club, corp just that it's
online where we elect a board and assign tasks to
willing members to get things done. If a member
doesn't complete their task then it's given to someone
else or farmed out.
This would also give people like Leno, EV-1
listee's, ect and other people with money a place to
see what's going on and maybe help is a big reason for
a seperate list. They haven't come to this list so far
for many reasons so we need to do something different.
As I see it we should start with the EV most would
want or easiest to do by vote. Then appoint some or
someone to design it, then go about sourcing all the
parts needed. This could go on for several different
EV's at once if the group wants.
Once all the facts, costs are in we could see how
many want to order one and start a payment schedule to
pay for the parts, work needed with parts, work being
done before the next step is taken.
Or someone could offer an EV design up they would
like to do and see if there is enough support to go
for it. If so then the board would pay for the work to
be done for start-up from the people who want one
overseeing it so the work gets done on time, price.
Those who sign up with deposits first would get the
first ones.
I'd go for 3 EV's.
First because it's cheaper, easier to do, legal,
would be a 3 wheeler ;-))
But not just because it's what I want to do but
because it is the most likely to succeed because it's
more simple to do and give experience to do the rest
on. Also due to it's lightweight will have great
performance as an EV. And can be profitable in under 5
units.
And anyone could offer a design, work. Fiberfab
wants to do one too so would be interested probably or
at least the glider part.
And I have had a lot of interest where I know
enough people would want one to make it profitable if
built.
Next would be either a Sunrise or Sunrise type 4
seater style. This would fit many more people as the
Insight shows that 2 seaters don't sell that well
here. It could be done as all the units in econo, long
range and sporty. By shipping batts, motor seperate
you could get away with calling it a kit for the first
few hundred as any other 4 wheelers we do.
After that or as the second one an EV Matrix/ Vibe
take-off that could be built as an SUV, mini-van,
station wagon, work van or pick-up off the same base
vehicle.
Any of these could have an optional generator so to
have unlimited range so people wouldn't need a second
car.
They could have common suspensions, steering, EV
drive train, ect so that work, parts would be cheaper
as longer production runs, orders would be possible.
>
> Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to DO something!
> Detroit won't save us.
> The government won't save us. They are part of the
> problem, not the
> solution!
I couldn't agree more! We have wasted too much
time already.
Lets start this and elect board member to get it
going.
>
> What I propose is a conference; a convention. We
> agree to get together
> physically, somewhere, somehow, to start seriously
> discussing what to
> do. Form an organization to start DOING what needs
> to be done!
I agree but because of distance we will have to do
much of this online if it ever will be done.
So lets start!!!!
Jerry Dycus
> --
> If you would not be forgotten
> When your body's dead and rotten
> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Rush and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rush wrote:
> > I agree with the great posts, but not at all with
> the take it off
> > list attitude. I may not participate much in this
> discussion, but
> > I would like to participate in the company, or
> what ever it might
> > be called.
But once we get into the details most of it would
be glider parts, details, financing, organizing which
are OT on the list as it should be and no one would be
left out as all they would have to do is join the new
list.
>
> Frankly, I think we *have* to take it off list (and
> probably off email
> as well) if we ever expect to get anything done. Too
> many times, reading
> and writing email replaces "real work". It's so easy
> to just sit there,
> staring at the screen. It's seductive; it feels like
> you're getting
> things done. But all that is happening is that the
> time keeps slipping
> away...
The only problem with your way Lee is we could
never get together for such a conference. And there
would have to be many conferences. We are just too
spread out.
Also we will need a lot of votes to decide things
and should restrict those votes to those who are
actually going to pay in and do the work.
We could do a lot with dues lower than EAA
ones!!!!
If we do it like a club, corp just that it's
online where we elect a board and assign tasks to
willing members to get things done. If a member
doesn't complete their task then it's given to someone
else or farmed out.
This would also give people like Leno, EV-1
listee's, ect and other people with money a place to
see what's going on and maybe help is a big reason for
a seperate list. They haven't come to this list so far
for many reasons so we need to do something different.
As I see it we should start with the EV most would
want or easiest to do by vote. Then appoint some or
someone to design it, then go about sourcing all the
parts needed. This could go on for several different
EV's at once if the group wants.
Once all the facts, costs are in we could see how
many want to order one and start a payment schedule to
pay for the parts, work needed with parts, work being
done before the next step is taken.
Or someone could offer an EV design up they would
like to do and see if there is enough support to go
for it. If so then the board would pay for the work to
be done for start-up from the people who want one
overseeing it so the work gets done on time, price.
Those who sign up with deposits first would get the
first ones.
I'd go for 3 EV's.
First because it's cheaper, easier to do, legal,
would be a 3 wheeler ;-))
But not just because it's what I want to do but
because it is the most likely to succeed because it's
more simple to do and give experience to do the rest
on. Also due to it's lightweight will have great
performance as an EV. And can be profitable in under 5
units.
And anyone could offer a design, work. Fiberfab
wants to do one too so would be interested probably or
at least the glider part.
And I have had a lot of interest where I know
enough people would want one to make it profitable if
built.
Next would be either a Sunrise or Sunrise type 4
seater style. This would fit many more people as the
Insight shows that 2 seaters don't sell that well
here. It could be done as all the units in econo, long
range and sporty. By shipping batts, motor seperate
you could get away with calling it a kit for the first
few hundred as any other 4 wheelers we do.
After that or as the second one an EV Matrix/ Vibe
take-off that could be built as an SUV, mini-van,
station wagon, work van or pick-up off the same base
vehicle.
Any of these could have an optional generator so to
have unlimited range so people wouldn't need a second
car.
They could have common suspensions, steering, EV
drive train, ect so that work, parts would be cheaper
as longer production runs, orders would be possible.
>
> Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to DO something!
> Detroit won't save us.
> The government won't save us. They are part of the
> problem, not the
> solution!
I couldn't agree more! We have wasted too much
time already.
Lets start this and elect board member to get it
going.
>
> What I propose is a conference; a convention. We
> agree to get together
> physically, somewhere, somehow, to start seriously
> discussing what to
> do. Form an organization to start DOING what needs
> to be done!
I agree but because of distance we will have to do
much of this online if it ever will be done.
So lets start!!!!
Jerry Dycus
> --
> If you would not be forgotten
> When your body's dead and rotten
> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:43 PM -0500 on 3/21/05, Chip Gribben wrote:
Here is the URL for the Riker Electric Vehicles Website
http://www.rikerelectricvehicles.com
Check it out.
Any indication yet of when to expect delivery of vehicles in quantity?
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
well, it is a 48V SAFT pack, so 48V nominal, but that probaly means as
low as 42V, assuming it cannot do a commissioning charge.
Seth
On Mar 21, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
How low do you need to go to?
Seth Allen wrote:
Need to charge SAFT 100Ah cells and was looking for an isolated,
programmable 20A charger. Brusa doesn't go that low. Needs to have
the ability to program any profile I want (within reason).
Any ideas?
Thanks!
Seth
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is something someone setup. It has 4 members and 9 messages. I would
not worry about it. This is the only list I would watch.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: March 21, 2005 5:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Yahoo EVList
Rush wrote:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/
Redirects me too:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList
Sports?
Category: Archery ?
Description: chaumet watches chopard watches citizen watch ?
What in the world, why's it like that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote [on converting a car into an EV]:
> Right now on Ebay is a 1999, 5 speed, 2 door Neon for $2200. Add:
> - ADC or WarP 8" - $1200
> - 1k Zilla - $1975
> - PFC20 - $1500
> - 12 Orbitals - $1200
> - 40amp DC/DC - $280
>
> So what has this $2200 Neon suddenly turned into? Looks like $8355.
> [with battery boxes, wiring, E-meter, motor adapter and coupler,
> labor...] Let's say this vehicle ends up costing $12,000 or $14,000.
> would anyone ever buy it for that amount?
The answer is, of course, that almost no one would buy a 1999 Neon for
that price. You might be able to find a few environmentalists or
philanthropists, but not enough to earn any kind of living doing it.
That's why no one is doing it.
Let's turn it around. What *is* a 1999 Neon EV conversion worth? The
Kelley Blue Book Price is $4350-$5425. I think we can add $1000 to that
for being an EV before you start to encounter serious sales resistance.
Let's be generous and say you can sell it for $6000. You buy the glider
off Ebay for $2200. That leaves you with $3800 to worth with. Is it
possible?
- ADC 6.7" L91 motor $800
- Curtis 1221C controller $890
- wire, contactors and fuses $250
- Russco SC18-120 charger $690
- 16 6v golf cart batteries $45 x 16 = $720
- E-meter $250
- materials for battery boxes $100
- motor adapter plate and coupler $350
- belt drive the existing alternator for the DC/DC $0
- use the existing 12v accessory battery $0
The total is $4050; we're $250 over-budget and don't have *any*
allowance for labor. And, this is just a 96v system; a rather anemic
"lead sled".
The only way to get it any cheaper is by lowering your performance
standards even further, using used or surplus components, and making
many of the key items yourself (motor coupler and adapter, charger,
etc.)
As long as you compare the cost of an EV conversion to the same car as
an ICE, you're going to lose. The price of the regular ICE version sets
the "value" of the vehicle, and it's like pushing water uphill to get
people to pay more.
This is another advantage for a scratch-built EV. There *is* on ICE
version to compare it to!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay Folks,
I made a pretty good 0-60 run today - not as good as I think I *could*
do with more ideal conditions, but I feel it is a fairly representative
time.
****************
*** Time: 12.48 ***
****************
The Winners:
Me - 12.5 (hehe...I really did have the closest time - but that was only
after seeing everyone else's, so I'm disqualified...what a cheater)
1) 12.3 - a tie between Rod Hower and Catherine Burgrd who guessed the
same time.
2) 12.9 - another tie between Otmar Eboenhach and Mike Chancey
I think Roderick Wilde's guess of 11.8 would be attainable. Maybe even
John Westlund's of 11.5.
So Rod and Catherine - let me know your T-shirt size and mailing address
off-list, and I'll get those to you.
By the way - 12.48 is faster than the turbocharged 4-banger was before
the conversion!! Fun!
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Curtiss 1244 sep-ex controller, 72V, 600A. But probably only
good for a smaller car. Wabbit sized.
Seth
On Mar 21, 2005, at 6:17 PM, M.G. wrote:
I for got to mention this motor is a separately excited motor . The
fields have approx ten times the windings and use 1/10 the current as
a series wound motor.
Mike G.
Lee Hart wrote:
M.G. wrote:
On Saturday I spent about 4 hours stripping out a scrapped fork lift
Does anybody have any way of possibly helping me figure out if this
motor will haul me around in my car that weighs approx 3100lbs in
ICE configuration.
GE Motors
part number 8504667 AU1840
DC volts 36/48 Serial number OR-9-280-OR
KW 14.00 Rpm 1000 Encl of C
Duty 60 min Class H Amps 330
Model number 5BT1336B167A
No trouble! That's a *big* motor; probably weighs 150-200 lbs, right?
You'll probably run it with a 96-120v pack. You'll want a high-current
controller like a Zilla, not a Curtis; this monster can easily pull
1000
amps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
Could you start this list? What would it be
called? EV production List? It's time we started it.
Jerry
--- Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There have been some really great thoughts posted on
> this thread by:
>
> Jerry Dycus
> Ryan Stotts
> John Westlund
> Mike Chancey
> Seth Allen
> Bob Rice
> David Roden
> Lee Hart
>
> It seems to me like this is something we should take
> off-list to
> another forum, to see what we can do as next steps.
> It doesn't seem
> like it would be a good use of the EV List
> resources. I have e-mailed
> the folks above to try to set up this next step.
>
> Let me know (off-list) if you would like to be
> notified about these
> opening steps also. Don't know where this may go,
> but I want to help
> get the ball rolling.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Mark
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> The trouble with this circuit is that it will bypass 2A
> (or whatever R3 alloes) only when D1 voltage fully exceeds
> D1 breakdown. On slow charge this does not happen and if
> you built this you will see that Q2 opens gradually and
> will spend considerable time in its active region with
> the same 0.5 Ohm resistance thus dissipating the same
> power as R3.
Yes; all correct. I agree.
The "zener" is actually a precision 1.235v breakdown device; it has
negligible voltage change over the current range of interest.
The "softness" of the voltage regulating threshold will come from the
base-emitter drop of the germanium transistor Q1, and the gain of Q1 and
Q2 (which is pretty high). I would expect Q1 Vbe to change from about
0.25v to 0.3v from 2ma to 2000ma of bypass current; that's 1.485-1.535v;
probably good enough.
Q2 could dissipate all the power itself. But it would need 4x the power
dissipation capability to do so (1.5v x 2a = 3 watts). With R3,
worst-case dissipation in the transistor is 1.5v/2 x 1a = 0.75w; so no
heatsink is needed. The resistor is cheaper than a heatsink.
> 2 - this circuit will *not* prevent voltage
> rise above 4.25V even if Q2 has zero resistance
> if a charging current is still larger than about 8A
> which may or may not be an issue.
Correct. But, he has an existing BMS which I presume is taking care of
throttling back the charger.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was at the local Kragens buying oil for the Mitsu PU (uses 1 quart of
oil per tank :-( time to convert it! )
And I saw the Exide ng27 sitting next to the XCD orbital at $35 dollars
less. I know it can't put out the same as the orbital but it gives an
105ah rating and a 625 MCA which is the amps at 32degrees F that it can
put out for 30sec without dropping below 1.2/cell (7.2 for bat).
If I had 240Volts of these and a zilla 1K, Would I overload the
batteries? ( I am a lead foot, never heard an EV'er called that )
it says 180 reserve, can't remember what that means, and 105ah is at
20hr rate, is that 5amps? LOL
So if the 50ah xcd is about 38 at the 1 hr rate, uve's page says 61ah
for the ng27 (using UVE's battery page)
38lb vs 52
is this accurate? 52*20 = 1040 lbs and 240*61ah*.8 = 11.7kwh / ~250 =
~ 47 miles
vs 38*25= 950 lbs and 300*38 *.8 = 9120
/~250 =~37miles
or 38*27=1026lbs and 324*38*.8
=9850/~250 = ~39 miles
Anyone used these for an EV? they are flooded, but not screwcaps, the
recessed squarecaps look like a maintance free, but ???
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What's even more amazing is the size and packaging
of Otmar's control. I installed a Zilla 1k in a
Sparrow about 4 months ago for Myers Motors.
Of course I had to dissect Ot's control before
installing just to see what was inside.
Amazing packaging and cooling design, about as compact
as you can get for a control with this performance.
My hats off to Otmar for his KISS principal on this
control and the reliability it has displayed so far.
He gives inspiration and design ideas to the other
control desingers on the list.
Keep up the good work Otmar!
It still amazes me that a small blob of copper and
semicondutors can make a car go this fast.
I'm still waiting for the flux capacitor design though
:-)
Rod
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay Folks,
>
> I made a pretty good 0-60 run today - not as good as
> I think I *could*
> do with more ideal conditions, but I feel it is a
> fairly representative
> time.
>
> ****************
> *** Time: 12.48 ***
> ****************
>
> The Winners:
>
> Me - 12.5 (hehe...I really did have the closest time
> - but that was only
> after seeing everyone else's, so I'm
> disqualified...what a cheater)
>
> 1) 12.3 - a tie between Rod Hower and Catherine
> Burgrd who guessed the
> same time.
> 2) 12.9 - another tie between Otmar Eboenhach and
> Mike Chancey
>
> I think Roderick Wilde's guess of 11.8 would be
> attainable. Maybe even
> John Westlund's of 11.5.
>
> So Rod and Catherine - let me know your T-shirt size
> and mailing address
> off-list, and I'll get those to you.
>
> By the way - 12.48 is faster than the turbocharged
> 4-banger was before
> the conversion!! Fun!
>
> -Ryan
> --
> - EV Source -
> Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great
> prices
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
--- End Message ---
