EV Digest 4247
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fw: hybrid news
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Progress Report on the Siamese 8
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: News Flash! GM To Build Hydrogen Cars!
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Beggining my battery education.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: HV shocks in general, was Re: Charger Shock
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Toshiba super battery... Oh, yeah!
by Dave Narby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Interstate Batteries
by bob jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: HV shocks in general
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Meter
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: HV shocks in general, was Re: Charger Shock
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVcort battery thoughts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Toshiba super battery... Oh, yeah!
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Transfer case as transmission
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Toshiba super battery... Oh, yeah!
by Dave Narby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Transfer case as transmission
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Transfer case as transmission
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Hummer hybrid a slightly less socially irresponsible status symbol
>
> The new Hummer hybrid: It's earth- friendly, so you don't have to be.
> With the introduction of its new gas/electric hybrid, Hummer hopes to
reach the niche market of motorists who want to appear concerned about the
environment, but for whom the popular Toyota Prius just doesn't turn enough
heads with its sedan body and measly $20,000 MSRP. The $60,000 Hummer
Laverde (a contraction of the Spanish words lava and verde, literally
meaning "green-wash") will go three times farther on a single fill-up than
previous Hummers - due mostly to a far larger gas tank - while its advanced
hybrid technology gets twice the mileage of behemoth SUV competitor Ford
Excursion at two miles per gallon highway, zero city. (Because two times
zero is still zero.)
>
> Option packages include advanced armor plating unavailable even to U.S.
troops in Iraq. Though the armor's weight nullifies the hybrid's added fuel
economy, you're assured that in a collision your load of overpriced organic
groceries will remain unscathed - unlike the driver of the Mazda Miata you
just backed over in the Whole Foods parking lot, who will require
reconstructive surgery and lifetime of rehab.
>
> In a limited-time offer intended to boost initial sales, your first tank
of gas will come from pristine petroleum drilled in the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge, and your first 100 kilowatt-hours will come from "clean
coal" power plants. "We hope the Laverde will be more popular and less of a
transparent PR stunt than our hydrogen-powered H2H model," said Elizabeth
Lowery, GM Vice President of Environment and Energy. The H2H was unavailable
for public sale but given as a gift to actor and muscle-man Arnold
Schwarzenegger - who is also governor of California - no kidding.
>
> + Self-righteously guilt-trip your SUV-driving friends by e-mailing them
this.
April Fool
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
The new motor is coming along as scheduled. Jim has done a great job so far, as
usual. The
armatures from the two Warfield 8's are in remarkably good condition, as are
the fields.
The shafts, however, aren't too happy...good thing they're going to the metal
scrap pile.
The center aluminum coupler, made from one of the original shaft end bells,
fits outside
one of the motor cases and inside the end of the other one, machined just so to
make the
two pieces go together like one long housing. We are modifying it further with
air passage
reliefs so that a single central fan can be used instead of two as previously
planned....a
bit more efficiency is gained by reducing fan drag at high rpm, and we both
believe the
one fan will pull in air nicely through each brush end bell's cooling slots. If
never
street driven, we could probably race without the fan at all, but White Zombie
is a street
driven machine. With 24 Orbitals at 288V, no more brake drag, a new lighter
aluminum drive
line, and all the vibration gone, the car should have a respectable street
range per
charge in the 40-50 mile area. With the brake drag we had in back now fixed,
and before it
became motor-less, the car stuffed with all 24 batteries was super easy to push
and it
rolled easy, like Blue Meanie does...that improvement alone, should help better
the car's
1/4 mile time and speed.
Today, I'm off work, so I can get some much needed EV stuff done. I'll be at
Dutchman
Motorsports to discuss slip joint spline options, so Jim and I can make the
call to the
motor shaft maker and give him the type of male splines to machine into the
shaft's output end.
Once the motor is ready to be put together, I'll go the Redmond, Oregon to
Jim's 'Hi
Torque Electric' motor shop, camera in hand to capture the assembly process.
When it's
essentially put together, we will run the motor on just one armature and field
section,
and time it's brush end bell first while we measure and record rpm and current
at certain
voltage. Next, the same will be done with the second armature and field section
powered by
itself, and we'll adjust that end bell until we get the exact rpm and current
at the same
voltage. In theory, both end bells should end up positioned exactly the same as
to the
number of degrees advance, only on opposite sides of the field center point to
get these results.
I'm hoping the Siamese 8 will pull about 1200 amps @ 7000 rpm on a sagged 165V
potential.
Last year, at ~6500 rpm at 101 mph, the twin 8's pulled 1200 amps @ 155 sagged
volts
(volts at the motors). The peak power was when I hit the button and pulled ~
2500 amps @
~130V at ~ 3000 rpm, or ~ 325 KW. I'm not sure what's going to happen when I
hit the
button with a 288V pack, but it's safe to say it will be done at higher rpm
levels and at
a higher series mode speed. I'm thinking it will still sag each Orbital down to
6.5V or so
at 2500 amps, so that comes out to 156V @ 2500 amps for ~390 KW. That's 522 hp
of
electrical consumption, but distilled to 'delivered hp', probably around 300,
maybe a bit more.
In any EVent, it should be fun. More updates to follow...
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regardless, you are still in violation of the list charter! "NO Political
content" means just what it says.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "CopperLion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: News Flash! GM To Build Hydrogen Cars!
> I would apologize, but then-
>
> I thought that $44mil of taxpayer money going into a private program
> that is inevitably going to cost more in resources and environmnetal
> damage was fair game. I really think that a focus on the negatives of
> the program is necessary, and the fact that so many voices are sweeping
> those negatives under the rug (both political and non-political voices)
> makes it clear that there must be another agenda. I really don't care
> what anyones political bent is- Republican, Democrat, Green,
> International- it doesn't matter. I was speaking to the fact that it may
> appear to be the U.S. President's personal agenda on the face of things,
> but there is a huge lobby behind him if you look beneath the surface. I
> was speaking of my belief that it is a misuse of taxpayer money, and I
> am not the only person on this list to provide an opinion of this nature.
>
> If you still feel that I am in error, I apologize for offending your
> sensibilities, and I will go back to my silent corner.
>
> Paul G. wrote:
>
> > With all due respect to your personal opinions CopperLion, you need to
> > avoid political commentary on the EVlist. What unites this group of
> > people is EVs, political opinions vary across the entire political
> > spectrum (plus this list has significant non USA membership.)
> >
> > Paul G.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A related but different thought:
I used to own a fiero. The motor mounts are very soft, and prone to
breaking, and the motor rocks back and forth alot. This tends to
stress the wires between the motor and the car, like the negative
battery cable. My fiero turned over very slowly for years. Then the
car just died. Turns out the battery cable had flexed so much it was
a high resistance connection. New cable, and it turned over much
faster. The speed up a long hill went up from 65 to 85 mph, also! I
assume that's because it was getting a weak spark.
I had also found cases where other wires had rubbed through and
caused poor performance. So I'd suggest measuring battery cable to
ground resistance, and looking for rubbed wires, and looking for bad
motor mounts (metal often OK, rubber inside is trashed).
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I had a little test with my friends car(ICE 88fiero) it has a 1.5
> month
> old battery and it went dead in 2 days while parked in her garage.
>
> Her charger, a sears automatic one, wouldn't charge because it
> didn't
> detect the battery. my meter read 0.00 volts
>
> I pulled the cable and it came up to 2.08volts , the cahrger
> detected it
> and we let it charge for 6 hours, the charger stayed at 5 amps even
>
> thought set for 15 and I measured 12.6 volts while charging, very
> low
> and slow.
>
> The next day it measured 10.99 volts and wouldn't start so we put
> it
> back on the charger to get it up to 11.75 and it started and we let
> it
> run a bit. The alternator put out 13.99 volts with no AC component.
>
> I have instructed her to wait an hour tonight and take a voltage
> reading
> and then to measure it again in the morning before she leaves
> then the next day repeat the test measuring an hour after she gets
> home,
> after removing the cable, and leaving it off and again in the
> morning
> before going to work.
>
>
> I tried a tail light in series with the positive cable and after
> the
> initial 1 min of dome light the in series bulb goes off indicating
> low
> or non existant curent.
>
> My questions.
> On a SLI battery, what is dead, what is charged?
> Is it posible for the battery to have a failure mode where
> driving it
> every day works but leaving it 2or 3 days doesn't , i mena without
> an
> external load on it.?
> What is the best way to use one of those carbon pile or resistor
>
> battery testers?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with every option
under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights, leather seats! everything!
Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
Here is my question..
This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you might go to a
junkyard and get one?
I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
Help!!!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I just don't (didn't) know proper English term for it.
Victor
Dave wrote:
You built a wave guide!
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold
S. Hulbert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
Yes, I was off in wave length estimation. For defence
though in your example you must simultaneously
touch 2 points of a car which are 9 feet apart.
In my scool days we built a hollow metal RF feed for a
horn antenna which was supported by uninsulated rods
bolted to it and pouned in the ground.
This was possible if you bolt supports only at null
locations. Couple of inches off and as you
said, we use to get nasty shorts. Few kW and the rods are
hot. Move them couple of inches and they are stone cold...
It was amazing to touch a bare piece of metal with an
RF AC voltmeter's probes couple of inches apart and
see the very large voltage potential.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
Another problem is that there are substantial amounts of resistance,
inductance, and capacitance between any two points in a large
"grounded"
piece of metal like a car body. Anyone familiar with RF can tell
you how
easy it is to have one point on a piece of metal at 0 volts, and
another
point *ON THE SAME PIECE OF METAL* at 100s of volts! The classic
example
of this is that if you touch two points on even a low-power
transmitting
antenna you'll get a shock! The high frequency chargers, motor
controllers, and even brush arcing can create enough RF to give you
such
shocks.
True, but this phenomenon you describe has to do with standing
waves short enough to be comparable to a human body size, which
happen at the frequencies of hundreds of MHz.
Anything conductive in a car with current switching technology will
have pretty same potential if the voltage is induced by RF.
In my early years, I was a ham radio operator. I've had mobile antennas
on my cars, and believe you me, you can get *nasty* RF shocks even at
3.5 MHz (the lowest frequency I used). The higher the frequency, the
worse it gets!
Consider the CB band (27 MHz). The wavelength is 11 meters. The distance
between a peak and a null in that waveform is 1/4 wave or 2.75 meters =
9 feet. Just about *all* cars are longer than this. So, at the instant
when the voltge at one point on the body is 0v, a spot 9 feet away is at
its *peak* voltage. The sharp-edged switching waveforms used in EV
chargers and controllers
easily have frequency components in this range.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> the EL will begin to glow when connected directly to a 120vac line,
> and the 3V-powered inverter that comes with it appears to put out
> about 300vac, and this surplus inverter seems to also put out 300vac
> -- too low of current output? wrong hz? something else I'm missing?
EL (Electro-Luminescent) lights are electrically a capacitor. The light
is produced by the AC current thru them -- current controls the
brightness. The current in a capacitor is I = V x 2 x pi x f x C. So,
you need to know the AC voltage *and* frequency. If a particular EL lamp
needs 1 milliamps and has 0.01 microfarad of capacitance, then you can
power it with 266vac at 60hz, 133vac at 120hz, 26.6vac at 600hz, etc.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
>> 96V Off-load? That's a fairly damaged battery pack now, probably :(
> Well, that was right after parking, perhaps I should have waited a min
> to look, but yea, that was off-load.
Sadly, I have to agree with Evan Tuer. 96v no-load on a 108v pack means
he almost certainly reversed one or more cells. He's going to need to
check each battery's voltage after his next charge-discharge cycle to
see which one (or more) have become "weak links" and will need
replacement. Or, tolerate significantly reduced range until then.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Toshiba super battery... Oh, yeah!
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since you are going to need an adapter plate from the elec motor to the
transmission, you can get any second hand manual transmission as long as it
fits in the space where the orig one was. 2nd hand transmission's are cheap.
Or depending upon the motor you would be getting you can do a direct drive
with no transmission.
Go for it...
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
>
> I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with every
> option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights, leather seats!
> everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
>
> Here is my question..
>
> This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
>
> Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you might go
> to a junkyard and get one?
>
> I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
>
> Help!!!!!
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except that the Saab is conventional layout/front wheel drive. Yes, they had
5-speeds.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
Since you are going to need an adapter plate from the elec motor to the
transmission, you can get any second hand manual transmission as long as
it fits in the space where the orig one was. 2nd hand transmission's are
cheap. Or depending upon the motor you would be getting you can do a
direct drive with no transmission.
Go for it...
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with every
option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights, leather seats!
everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
Here is my question..
This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you might go
to a junkyard and get one?
I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
Help!!!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm in the Dallas area and considering conversion of a
gen-1 rx-7. Currently researching battery options.
Interstate has a big local presence. Is anyone
familiar with their deep cycle batteries?
Planning for a 144V pack. Considering:
USRM16TF "multi-purpose deep cycle"
http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content/products/product_deepcyclemp.asp
or
U1850 or U1850HC "industrial deep cycle"
http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content/products/product_deepcycle.asp
Also trying to balance the cost/range/cycles of optima
yellow (D34 or D31A/T) - does anyone know what the
difference is between D31A and D31T?
Thanks, Jim
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
http://personals.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Since you are going to need an adapter plate from the elec motor to the
transmission, you can get any second hand manual transmission as long as it
fits in the space where the orig one was. 2nd hand transmission's are cheap.
Or depending upon the motor you would be getting you can do a direct drive
with no transmission.
Go for it... >>
No tranny seems like a good choice if you intend to go AC (or high amp DC), or
could you fix the automatic in just one gear? Seems the weight savings of
eliminating the tranny might be worth considering.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< EL (Electro-Luminescent) lights are electrically a capacitor. The light
is produced by the AC current thru them -- current controls the
brightness. The current in a capacitor is I = V x 2 x pi x f x C. So,
you need to know the AC voltage *and* frequency. If a particular EL lamp
needs 1 milliamps and has 0.01 microfarad of capacitance, then you can
power it with 266vac at 60hz, 133vac at 120hz, 26.6vac at 600hz, etc. >>
Thanks, Lee - don't have any way to measure hz or high AC voltage, but even the
output with 3V input could light up the end of a fluorescent tube...don't know
what that indicates, just that it's doing *something*!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yes, I was off in wave length estimation. For defence
> though in your example you must simultaneously
> touch 2 points of a car which are 9 feet apart.
Only if you want to reach *maximum* potential.
ANY two points will be at different potentials, the /amount/ of
differential will vary though.
-snip-
>> Consider the CB band (27 MHz). The wavelength is 11 meters. The distance
>> between a peak and a null in that waveform is 1/4 wave or 2.75 meters =
>> 9 feet.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was just at a local electronics shop and they have a DMM I'm considering.
It's an Extech 470. It
says it's true RMS. Accuracy is supposed to be +- .3% VDC. The part I really
like is that it
includes a built in infra-red thermomter as well as a wired temp probe. Great
for checking hot
connections or batteries. AND it has a frickin' laser! (No sharks though.)
Their price is $129.
Haven't shopped around for price yet.
So, besides the nice bells and whistles, does this look like a good meter? Is
the brand OK? Is the
accuracy reasonable?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Umm 96V is darn near the 100% DOD point while loaded.
After removing the load a good set of near 100% DOD batteries should have
bounced back to almost 108V immediately. Sounds like you either have some
seriously over discharged batteries or some shorted (or possibly reversed)
cells.
> On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 09:25:43AM +0100, Evan Tuer wrote:
>> On Apr 1, 2005 9:14 AM, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Today a buddy of mine acquired a new EVcort. I drove with him into
>> > San Francisco and followed him back to Mountain View (about a 32 mile
>> trip).
>> >
>> > When we arrived in Mountain View, the 108 volt nominal pack was
>> > reading 96 volts, a fairly deep discharge.
>>
>> 96V Off-load? That's a fairly damaged battery pack now, probably :(
>
> Well, that was right after parking, perhaps I should have waited a min
> to look, but yea, that was off-load.
>
>>
>> > So I started thinking,
>> > how hard would it be to upgrade the battries in this guy to Optimas?
>>
>> I would suggest sticking with golf cart batteries until he's got the
>> experience to make a more expensive pack last the distance.
>
> Humm, perhaps that would be best.
>
> Thanks!
> * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In general a manual trans would be better for an EV, but as a
counterpoint:
You could find out which sensor(s) tell the car the gas pedal is
floored. Fix them so the car thinks the gas is always floored. Then
the tranny would let the motor go to max rpm before shifting (what
you want with an electric, you don't want to lug it at low rpm).
You'd also want to slowly idle the motor at a stop, so it would not
start with a jerk.
This might be less trouble than swapping trannies. Also beware, some
cars have different sheet metal between the manual and automatic
versions, so check first to make sure everything will fit.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with
> every option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights,
> leather seats! everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
>
> Here is my question..
>
> This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
>
> Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you
> might go to a junkyard and get one?
>
> I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
>
> Help!!!!!
__________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 12:01:02PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Umm 96V is darn near the 100% DOD point while loaded.
>
> After removing the load a good set of near 100% DOD batteries should have
> bounced back to almost 108V immediately. Sounds like you either have some
> seriously over discharged batteries or some shorted (or possibly reversed)
> cells.
>
It still ran fine at this point, perhaps if we end up swapping out the weak
cells, we should also install a BMS.
Will a BMS prevent this kind of damage in the future?
Thanks!
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On Apr 1, 2005 6:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> just toplay around. Don't know if this would actually work for my vision
>> of a
>> mini Jacob's Ladder attached to the inside of my scooters windscreen,
>> but I did
>
> Watch out for the UV when playing about with arc generating things.
Yeah, what he said.
In the Stupid People Tricks category:
Once, when I was a kid, I needed to weld something (can't remember what)
and I couldn't find the welding hood. So I lined up the electrode and
quickly looked away just as I drew the arc. I'd weld for a bit, then stop
and look at it to see how it was going and then weld some more.
I was 'smart' enough not to look at the arc so I didn't burn my retina,
but not smart enough to close my eyes. So I got a mild 'sunburn'
(arcburn?) on my face and a severe burn on the irises of my eyes. I ended
up having to put ointment IN my eyes, every couple hours, and walking
around blindfolded for a week.
In next week's installment of Stupid People Tricks, I'll cover using
grinding wheels without safety glasses and ending up with a sliver of
metal embedded in my cornea.
I'm rather surprised sometimes that I still have the use of both my eyes.
Folks, take care of your eyes. It's are REALLY hard to find spares for
them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 12:01:02PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Umm 96V is darn near the 100% DOD point while loaded.
>>
>> After removing the load a good set of near 100% DOD batteries should
>> have
>> bounced back to almost 108V immediately. Sounds like you either have
>> some
>> seriously over discharged batteries or some shorted (or possibly
>> reversed)
>> cells.
>>
>
> It still ran fine at this point, perhaps if we end up swapping out the
> weak
> cells, we should also install a BMS.
>
> Will a BMS prevent this kind of damage in the future?
None that I'm aware of do. However, since most BMSs are homebrewed to
some extent, you could certainly add that feature.
Still it would be simpler and cheaper to just mount a voltmeter on the
dash and look at it every now and then. You really, REALLY, should have a
voltmeter as a minimum anyway. Then an amp meter. Then an E-meter/Link10
Next step up would be an audible alarm triggered when the pack voltage
dropped below a certain point (in addition to the voltmeter).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Behalf Of Dave Narby Toshiba super battery... Oh, yeah!
I think you mean "you wish!" or "oh maybe" or "let's not hold our breath"...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I've been looking at my '86 mitsu and thinking about the Solectric S-10
drive with the 2 motors and drive pulleys rear of the axle. From a space
point of view I want to put my motor back of the rear axle. I remember from
my RVing days that there is an aftermarket hi gear that can be added to the
rear differential. I've been googling for it, but can't find it. Does any
body know what I am referring to and a link to the site?
And I've also gotten another idea... using a transfer case with a hi and
higher gear in it. The transfer cases that I am aware of are 2 to 4 wheel
drive transfer and at the same time a hi and low gearing. Is there just a 2
wheel transfer case that has a gearing in it that can be a hi to higher? a
1:1 and then a 1: >1 gear inside?
I plan to put the electronics and maybe some batteries in the front
compartment, put the batteries between the cab and rear axle, 2 layers high
x 8 rows of 5 across for a total of 40 T-105. So I'll get a battery pack of
2 strings of 120 V or a single of 240, weight of 2480 lbs, pretty heavy.
(The obvious problem with this setup is that the power has to travel from
the bat pack forward to the controller and the back again to the motor.)
Below is a chart comparing Optima's and Trojans. Are my numbers correct? if
they are, then it seems better, at least weight wise to use the Optima's.
Volts # of bats amps Vtotal Watts 80%DOD
miles/300wt/hrs weight
Optima
D750S 12 40 65 480 31200 24969
83.2 1800
Trojan
T-105 6 40 225 240 54000 432000
144 2480
Comments please
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
converting a '86 Mitsubishi truck
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, it's obvious first use is cell phones, but if you read the
article, they're planning on using them for cars (most likely hybrids
and for regenerative braking).
Sure, it's gonna take awhile, but it's just a matter of time now...
Myles Twete wrote:
Behalf Of Dave Narby Toshiba super battery... Oh, yeah!
I think you mean "you wish!" or "oh maybe" or "let's not hold our breath"...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before my next question, I have to say it was LOVE at first sight with this
car!!!!!!!
It is a Sweetheat! What a dream! It has beautiful green body, electric sun
roof, every power feature there is, 4 Wheel Disk brakes, even little wipers on
the headlights! Beautiful alloy wheels, fine hardly worn tires, leather seats,
alarm, you name it!
Glass, body, metal all pristine. V6 engine is in shambles with the heads off
and the entire top end missing...gee who cares!! I am pretty sure I am going
to end up with it. If so, I will figure something out for the drive train.
NEXT question, however. Don't auto trannys run from hydro power generated by
torque converter? It seems unless that would be spinning all the time you
wouldn't have any fluid pressure to run the transmission. In the Solectra
autos, how do they handle this?
>
> From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/04/01 Fri PM 06:51:32 GMT
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
>
> In general a manual trans would be better for an EV, but as a
> counterpoint:
>
> You could find out which sensor(s) tell the car the gas pedal is
> floored. Fix them so the car thinks the gas is always floored. Then
> the tranny would let the motor go to max rpm before shifting (what
> you want with an electric, you don't want to lug it at low rpm).
> You'd also want to slowly idle the motor at a stop, so it would not
> start with a jerk.
>
> This might be less trouble than swapping trannies. Also beware, some
> cars have different sheet metal between the manual and automatic
> versions, so check first to make sure everything will fit.
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with
> > every option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights,
> > leather seats! everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
> >
> > Here is my question..
> >
> > This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
> >
> > Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you
> > might go to a junkyard and get one?
> >
> > I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
> >
> > Help!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger
> Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
> http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd guess this car has a lock-up torque converter? Maybe you could
leave that in and drive it like the original ICE did.
Solectria was not really an automatic transmission in the
conventional sense. It was just a 1 gear transmission, and the
electric motor had enough low down torque and high rpm power to live
with that -- kind of like a human on a single speed bicycle. If you
don't want speed, you might be able to adapt the Solectria motor and
transmission (if you have the $$$, and it has enough power for that
heavy a car).
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Before my next question, I have to say it was LOVE at first sight
> with this car!!!!!!!
>
> It is a Sweetheat! What a dream! It has beautiful green body,
> electric sun roof, every power feature there is, 4 Wheel Disk
> brakes, even little wipers on the headlights! Beautiful alloy
> wheels, fine hardly worn tires, leather seats, alarm, you name it!
>
> Glass, body, metal all pristine. V6 engine is in shambles with the
> heads off and the entire top end missing...gee who cares!! I am
> pretty sure I am going to end up with it. If so, I will figure
> something out for the drive train.
>
> NEXT question, however. Don't auto trannys run from hydro power
> generated by torque converter? It seems unless that would be
> spinning all the time you wouldn't have any fluid pressure to run
> the transmission. In the Solectra autos, how do they handle this?
>
>
>
> >
> > From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2005/04/01 Fri PM 06:51:32 GMT
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
> >
> > In general a manual trans would be better for an EV, but as a
> > counterpoint:
> >
> > You could find out which sensor(s) tell the car the gas pedal is
> > floored. Fix them so the car thinks the gas is always floored.
> Then
> > the tranny would let the motor go to max rpm before shifting
> (what
> > you want with an electric, you don't want to lug it at low rpm).
> > You'd also want to slowly idle the motor at a stop, so it would
> not
> > start with a jerk.
> >
> > This might be less trouble than swapping trannies. Also beware,
> some
> > cars have different sheet metal between the manual and automatic
> > versions, so check first to make sure everything will fit.
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door
> with
> > > every option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights,
> > > leather seats! everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
> > >
> > > Here is my question..
> > >
> > > This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
> > >
> > > Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you
> > > might go to a junkyard and get one?
> > >
> > > I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
> > >
> > > Help!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Messenger
> > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
> > http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> And I've also gotten another idea... using a transfer case with a hi and
> higher gear in it. The transfer cases that I am aware of are 2 to 4 wheel
> drive transfer and at the same time a hi and low gearing. Is there just a
> 2
> wheel transfer case that has a gearing in it that can be a hi to higher? a
> 1:1 and then a 1: >1 gear inside?
You could use an ordinary transfer case and reverse the connections, i.e.
hook the motor up to the rearwheel output and wheels up to the shaft that
normally connects to the transmission (just ignore the front wheel
output).
Couple gotchas, make sure it's an older gear(preferably) or chain drive
transfer case WITHOUT a internal differential. It would also, probably,
be best to look for a "divorced" transfer case. These are designed as a
separate unit with a short drive shaft to the transmission. Most "normal"
transfer cases are designed to bolt onto the back of a transmission and
have a splined input shaft.
Also, unless it's one of the new "shift on the fly" transfer cases you
will only be able to shift gears from either a stop or slow speed.
I'm not aware of any "divorced" transfer cases that offer "shift on the
fly" so you might have to put up with the splined shaft in order to use
one.
>
> I plan to put the electronics and maybe some batteries in the front
> compartment, put the batteries between the cab and rear axle, 2 layers
> high
> x 8 rows of 5 across for a total of 40 T-105.
Gonna be a pain in the a$$ to water them if they are in two layers.
> So I'll get a battery pack
> of
> 2 strings of 120 V or a single of 240, weight of 2480 lbs, pretty heavy.
> (The obvious problem with this setup is that the power has to travel from
> the bat pack forward to the controller and the back again to the motor.)
True, which makes the next obvious question...why? Why not build an
enclosure for the controller back near the motor and save all of the
expense, and powerloss, from the long cables?
> Below is a chart comparing Optima's and Trojans. Are my numbers correct?
> if
> they are, then it seems better, at least weight wise to use the Optima's.
>
> Volts # of bats amps Vtotal Watts 80%DOD
> miles/300wt/hrs weight
> Optima
> D750S 12 40 65 480 31200 24969
> 83.2 1800
> Trojan
> T-105 6 40 225 240 54000 432000
> 144 2480
>
> Comments please
I'm assuming by amps you really mean amp hours? If so, you numbers are a
little off from reality.
Under this application, you'll probably be able to squeeze a few more
amphours out of the Optimas than most people get (who typically carry 1/2
as many or less) so figure on getting 45 amp hours (tops) out of the
Optimas.
Second, the T-105 can deliver 225 amps hours...at the 20 hour rate, not at
the EV rate. The 20 hr rate is pretty much useless for EV calculations.
If you go to Trojan's website, you can see that the T-105 can deliver 75
amps for 115 minutes. 75 amps is pretty close to the average current
these batteries will see in this EV, so that works out to ~144 amp hours.
So your Watt Hours (you did mean watt hours not watts, didn't you?)
Optima: 45AH * 12V * 40 = 21,600WH
T-105: 144AH * 6V * 40 = 34,560WH ( more than 50% more)
If you went with the equivelent weight, 29 of the T-105 weighs 1798 lbs
and produces ~25,056WH, still more than from an equal weight in Optimas.
This would give you a pack voltage of 174V, which is in the reasonable
range for DC motor/controllers.
29 T-105s would also cost about 1/2 as much as 40 Optimas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like the chart was a little garbled...
Volts # of bats amps Vtotal Watts 80%DOD miles/300wt/hrs
lbs
Optima
D750S 12 40 65 480 31200 24969 83.2
1800
Trojan
T-105 6 40 225 240 54000 432000 144
2480
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
converting a '86 Mitsubishi truck
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a reality check.
"Fully Loaded", translates to "Heaviest Model"
"Power Everything", translates to "Huge load on the 12V system"
Your range is going to suffer (especially if you stay with the autmoatic
tranny) and you're going to need a BIG dc-dc converter.
On the other hand, the Saab 900 is basically a pickup in disguise. I
remember a friend of mine, who owned one, needing to move a queen(full?)
size bed, no problem, fold down the rear seats and it fits right in.
> Before my next question, I have to say it was LOVE at first sight with
> this car!!!!!!!
>
> It is a Sweetheat! What a dream! It has beautiful green body, electric
> sun roof, every power feature there is, 4 Wheel Disk brakes, even little
> wipers on the headlights! Beautiful alloy wheels, fine hardly worn tires,
> leather seats, alarm, you name it!
>
> Glass, body, metal all pristine. V6 engine is in shambles with the heads
> off and the entire top end missing...gee who cares!! I am pretty sure I
> am going to end up with it. If so, I will figure something out for the
> drive train.
>
> NEXT question, however. Don't auto trannys run from hydro power generated
> by torque converter? It seems unless that would be spinning all the time
> you wouldn't have any fluid pressure to run the transmission. In the
> Solectra autos, how do they handle this?
>
>
>
>>
>> From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2005/04/01 Fri PM 06:51:32 GMT
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Automatic Trans SAAB 900E ADVICE!!!!
>>
>> In general a manual trans would be better for an EV, but as a
>> counterpoint:
>>
>> You could find out which sensor(s) tell the car the gas pedal is
>> floored. Fix them so the car thinks the gas is always floored. Then
>> the tranny would let the motor go to max rpm before shifting (what
>> you want with an electric, you don't want to lug it at low rpm).
>> You'd also want to slowly idle the motor at a stop, so it would not
>> start with a jerk.
>>
>> This might be less trouble than swapping trannies. Also beware, some
>> cars have different sheet metal between the manual and automatic
>> versions, so check first to make sure everything will fit.
>>
>> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > I have an opportunity to get a GREAT looking Saab 900E 4 door with
>> > every option under the sun! Electric wipers on the headlights,
>> > leather seats! everything! Motor is shot, otherwise pristine.
>> >
>> > Here is my question..
>> >
>> > This thing has an automatic tranny. Are they ever used?
>> >
>> > Also does anyone know if they were made with 5 speeds where you
>> > might go to a junkyard and get one?
>> >
>> > I can definitely get my wife to drive this one!!!
>> >
>> > Help!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Yahoo! Messenger
>> Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
>> http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
