EV Digest 4291
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) TdS Report #9: Photos - Western Washington University's entrants: Viking
23 and Viking 32
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Wire Gauge questions - beating dead horse
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Microturbine engine hybrid??
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by "Kirk A. Reinkens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: Wire Gauge questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Question to lead batteries experts
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Golf cars site
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Wire Gauge questions - beating dead horse
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Build an EV from the ground up
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Wire Gauge questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Question to lead batteries experts
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) OT Re: Microturbine engine hybrid??
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Build an EV from the ground up for profit
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Build an EV from the ground up for profit
by Brian Hay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Build an EV from the ground up for profit
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by "Lord Khaos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Question to lead batteries experts
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #9: Photos - Western Washington University's entrants: Viking 23
and Viking 32
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_001.html
Western Washington University's entrants: Viking 23 and Viking 32
Viking 23 has appeared in the Tour de Sol many times since its first appearance
in 1996.
It has changed quite a bit in that time, but the basic body pan and
front-wheel-electric-motor and rear-wheel-ICE-engine plan has been consistent.
Viking 32, without its racing decorations ...
and with them.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guys, whatever colors you decide to use, *you* have to let the world
know what it means, and you can't.
The world alrealy knows (or been pushed to know) that ORANGE = DANGER
period. Not high voltage, not + or -. just DANGER.
Rescuers don't need to know more.
No one outside this list know what HV marking stands for.
No one in smoking and about to burst in flames EV will try to read
labels and even if they can, it won't impact what they will do next.
Positive is as dangerous as negative, therefore they both orange
just designating "danger".
+ and - or HV labels are for you to service normally, not for those
who are to cut these as quickly as they can and run away.
You don't care if fire fighters cuts + or - of your pack, as long
as it is disconnected. Don't confuse him then.
He will cut orange off first, period. Make him think that way.
Something other than orange will make him guess and loose
critical time.
Even if totally untrained man opens smocking hood and well see
all dark wires and couple of bright orange ones, what his first
impulse (re)action be without much thinking? "Just cut those off
first, they look suspiciosly different from others".
*Make* him think that way. Perhaps orange was picked by OEMs
because it is different from everything else traditionally used
so far.
Again, reasons are irrelevant as the color itself.
Can't change it and no need to.
Only [somewhat settled] people's perception/reaction is relevant.
Just take advantage of it.
Victor
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 16, 2005 9:06 AM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: Wire Gauge questions
<< Orange sounds good for positive, with orange-and-black for negative.
I'm sure I've got appropriately colored electrical tape around here
somewhere...
Jude >>
How about green for negative (DC)/neutral (AC)? They list it as an option
at
http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--2-0.html
My take on this would be that RED is positive, BLACK is negative; GREEN is
an earth or frame ground safety.
I find it confusing enough that in A/C BLACK is the switched HOT line and
WHITE is return while in DC usually RED is the switched +'v line and BLACK
is the -'v and usually the common return line.
I would guess you might use a separate wire to ensure the many metal parts
in the high voltage system were all connected electrically especially if you
are trying to keep the low voltage DC and the high voltage DC systems
isolated. I would also guess you might use GREEN for this to be consistent
with the use in A/C systems which people are familiar. I would not guess
that GREEN was the D/C negative line, which is usually BLACK. Maybe it
should be GREEEN with an ORANGE stripe :-)
Does anyone wire an isolated safety ground in the high voltage systems on
cars? I don't recall it ever being mentioned.
Lawrence
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:57:47 -0400, Martin K
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It is my understanding that turbines are more efficient than diesels for
>high power outputs (think "large standby generator")
Actually it is the other way around. Large diesel engines achieve the
highest BSFC. In fact, the world's largest diesel engine is also the
most efficient, achieving a BSFC of 0.260 lbs/hp/hour and an overall
efficiency of about 50%. A car engine, by comparison, maxes out at
about 0.4. You can read about this engine here:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
>
>Turbines are used almost exclusively over diesel for peak shaving power
>plants because they can be started up quickly. They aren't super
>efficient though, which is why they are also used in cogeneration
>heat+electricity situations.
Gas turbines are used for power generation (both peak shaving and base
load these days, unfortunately) because they are small and cheap for
their power output, reasonably efficient, amenable to cogeneration
which brings the efficiency up to nearly that of the large diesel,
easier to muffle, are high speed machines best matched to the compact
2 pole alternators most favored these days and they burn cheap natural
gas.
There are still a lot of diesel electric sets out there, some quite
large. I have some photos of a 50 MW plant in Texas that I'm going to
post to my web site as I get time. There are also a lot of large
spark ignition sets out there, mostly used in gas and oil fields where
they burn natural gas.
>
>IMO a small turbine would not be efficient.
The microturbines such as the Capstone unit used in the AVS hybrid bus
are competitive with similar power output diesels. The major
advantage is size and weight. The 50kw unit used in the AVS bus is
small enough to be held in one's arms. The high speed PM alternator
itself is about the size of a 1hp 3600 RPM 60 hz motor. Again I have
some photos that I'll put up when I can.
The problem with turbines in general is that they don't throttle well.
It's not unusual for a turbine to be flowing 60% of full throttle fuel
consumption at idle. With a hybrid that isn't much of an issue
because the turbine can be either on or off. That's the approach AVS
took with the bus, including in the design enough batteries to run the
bus normally. The turbine was started automatically whenever needed.
The main problem with microturbines right now is that even the
smallest ones are still large (power output wise) compared to what an
EV needs. Relying on fuzzy memory, I believe the AVS turbine is one
of the smaller ones Capstone makes.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Dave, what do you mean by "Before reality set in.."? I'd like to hear a
little more about that. It seemed like you had decided not go with a kit
car? Do you have some thoughts about the value of going with a kit car or
ICE conversion?
I was also wondering how many kit car EVs had been done. I've seen the
electric7.com work, and I'm looking forward to details on performance and
etc. I've also seen a photo of a LoneStar Classics LS40 that was done for
EAA some time ago, but also no performance details. It was a cool picture
running just the converted frame w/o the body. I also thought that these
kits would make conversion cleaner.
What's been done? Any thoughts on the quality of the results?
Kirk,
Spokane, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:19 PM
Subject: Fwd: Build an EV from the ground up
> --- "Don Cameron (New Beetle EV)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Although my associates have experience building cars from the ground up,
> > utilizing suspension, steering, windows and some other components from
OEM, I
> > would like to inquire if anyone out there has any good experience in
this area
> > and can offer some suggestions.
>
> Before reality set in, I was hoping to build my first ev from a kit car.
Here's a link to one that
> I would liked to have used. Light, sporty and ready for an electric
drivetrain.
>
> http://www.thunderranch.com/550.html
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--2-0.html
>>
They don't have it, tried to order it and the don't know when they will get it
again. Only have red and black.
In black or red 2/0 in 100' lengths, best price I could get here in Tucson is
$1.85/ft. Nobody has orange or even knows where to get it.
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What ever happened to this vehicle?
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/woodburn2001/sm006.jpg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/woodburn2001/woodburn3.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >> http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--2-0.html
> >>
>
> They don't have it, tried to order it and the don't know when they will get it
again. Only have red and black.
>
> In black or red 2/0 in 100' lengths, best price I could get here in Tucson is
$1.85/ft. Nobody has orange or even knows where to get it.
>
> Rush
How many conversions had already been made by the time fire departments were
trained to look for orange, and if one was in an accident, how likely is it a
rescuer would need to cut through traction power lines to get to the occupants
- you put those underneath, right? You might be better off with an inertia
switch if you worry about disconnecting the power in case of an accident rather
than relying on an unrhymeable color. It certainly shouldn't delay anyone from
building an EV!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jude Anthony [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> While one argument certainly could include "Emergency personnel are
> trained to recognize orange wiring," there are
> counter-arguments.
So, let's hear a few ;^>
> Besides, all we'd have to do is retrain them.
Yeah, right: that's "all" ;^>
Who are 'we' that rescue personnel are going to listen to what we have
to say and stake their lives on us knowing what we are talking about?
Where are we going to get the funding to cover the costs of producing
literature documenting our 'standard' and producing training materials,
and sending instructors out to train the rescue personnel?
You've got to have a pretty convincing argument against the use of
orange to justify not adopting an existing standard that someone else
has already footed the training bill for.
Lee's point seemed to be that first and foremost we should specify our
wiring based on its physical/electrical properties, and only then
consider colour. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that there is
absolutely no problem getting orange cable that is at least as good as
the best non-orange cable used in our EVs, and probably better.
The only remaining issue would be whether or not orange is a 'good'
choice. Here's how I see it: there are 3 'standard' colours for wleding
cable: black, red, and orange. Orange has been chosen by the hybrid
(and one-upon-at-time EV) OEMs to identify the high voltage wiring in
those vehicles, and rescue personnel have been (or are being) trained to
recognise this.
Welding cable can be had in other colours, but typically only from
questionable quality manufacturers through a limited number of
suppliers, or by special order with minimum quantities. Adopting a
colour other then red, black or orange would limit the acceptance of the
'standard' since the cable would not be readily available. As it is,
people wire their EVs typically just with black cable (because it is the
most readily available colour), with at best, red heatshrink to identify
cable ends that connect to +ve terminals.
Adopting a colour other than orange would make EVs differ from hybrids
from the perspective of rescue workers and would require educating them
to 'our' unique standard.
>From a 'danger' perspective, both traction pack -ve and +ve are equally
important to the rescue worker, so it seems sensible to identify them
with the same colour for at-a-glance identification. This is
inconvenient for us from the point of view of determining which wire
goes where, etc., but labelled/colour-coded heatshrink at the cable ends
largely eliminates this concern (and is required anyway to identify the
+ve/-ve ends of inter-battery connections regardless of the cable
colour, so let's be consistent throughout the car).
Choosing a colour other than red or black may even help safety since
people blindly associate black with negative and red with positive
regardless of what they actually connect to (e.g. battery interconnects
have a +ve end and a -ve end; someone who sees a black or red cable may
assume one polarity or the other, but someone who sees an orange cable
will have to look at the labels at the terminal to see what it hooks
to).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Victor,
I have a General Electric instruments, which is program by them to display a
Cutoff point, a Red warning zone, a Yellow and Amber warning zone and the
normal operating Green zone.
These are integrated into the battery amp meter and volt meter that has a
optional electronic circuit boards.
It is calibrated for a 300 AH- 180 volt battery pack.
The display reads like follows which I will reference to a 2 volt cell, a 6
volt battery, a 12 volt battery and 180 volt battery pack:
2 volt 6 volt 12 volt 180 volt Status
2.11 6.33 12.66 189.9 Charge-No Load
2.00 6.00 12.00 180.0 Normal - Green
1.88 5.66 11.33 170.0 Low - Yellow
1.77 5.33 10.66 160.0 Warning - Amber
1.66 4.99 9.99 150.0 Cutoff - Red
The indicated color bar range for a 12 volt battery would be display as:
Volt Range Indication Specific Gravity Percent.
15.33 to 11.33 Green 1.277 to 1.172 50%
11.33 to 10.66 Yellow 1.172 to 1.148 40%
10.66 to 9.99 Amber 1.148 to 1.124 30%
Below 9.99 Red 1.124 -30%
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Tikhonov<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: Question to lead batteries experts
As a BMS hardware being evolved, as "by-product" a battery node
for monitoring and taking care of for 12V lead battery will be
offered as well [as for LiIon] - the hardware changes are minimal.
For some who would not want expense of LCD display and will be
satisfied with warning light/7 seg display some limits have to be
programmed in and for non-configurable option I don't know
what limits to use to take advantage of max A/D range.
Since lead acid battery is "dead" at 11V and good battery under
heavy load (drag racing type) may sag to 7V or so, there is no
point to measure voltages from, say 6V down to zero. At 6V
it is as dead as at 5V or at 2V - so do people care whether battery
reads 2V or 5V or "<6V" is enough info?
So the question 1 is - what is useful range to be accurately displayed
(to be scaled to fill A/D input range)?
I thought 6...18V should cover all conditions and beyond
these limits you don't care what exactly the value is.
Question 2: if a battery sag, the warning condition can be latched.
What are the conditions for warning, provided they are programmable.
- 10.75V per battery at what current?
- And/Or ??V at no current (idle). Say, if it is 12.00V at 0A
(or 1A or whatever_you_say A) current, the warning comes on.
- One battery is different from average by more than XX volts.
What XX equals to to be useful?
I realize these are battery type dependent, but something common
has to be programmed in (user can adjust hardware as he see fit).
In general, what warning regarding your pack do you want on your dash?
Any input is welcome.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--2-0.html
They don't have it, tried to order it and the don't know when they
will get it again. Nobody has orange or even knows where to get it.
Someone mentioned spray painting the wire... is that an option which
would allow us to get quality welding cable and in the color orange?
Would spray painting the wire have any negative effects on the insulation?
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Rod and all may find this informative:
http://www.golfcarcatalog.com/information.cfm/step/3/information_id/5.html
They mention speed modifications for golf cars but fail to mention the most
bang for the buck, which is doubling the voltage (assuming series-wound
motor). :^D
I have many happy customers that have gone this route. No charger purchase
required (charge half at a time), swap 6V batteries for 12V, tap the pack
for instruments and solenoids, replace controller (Alltrax 72V 450A for 36V
cart), double speed and power.
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just be clear I am in 100% agreement that the HV wire should be ORANGE or in
ORANGE loop. It makes perfect sense to make the HV cable distinctive. The
ends should be BLACK or RED as appropriate.
I was really just saying I don't think anyone should even think about
substituting GREEN for the negative colour when BLACK in the D/C world been
negative for as long as I can remember.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: April 18, 2005 2:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wire Gauge questions - beating dead horse
Guys, whatever colors you decide to use, *you* have to let the world
know what it means, and you can't.
The world alrealy knows (or been pushed to know) that ORANGE = DANGER
period. Not high voltage, not + or -. just DANGER.
Rescuers don't need to know more.
No one outside this list know what HV marking stands for.
No one in smoking and about to burst in flames EV will try to read
labels and even if they can, it won't impact what they will do next.
Positive is as dangerous as negative, therefore they both orange
just designating "danger".
+ and - or HV labels are for you to service normally, not for those
who are to cut these as quickly as they can and run away.
You don't care if fire fighters cuts + or - of your pack, as long
as it is disconnected. Don't confuse him then.
He will cut orange off first, period. Make him think that way.
Something other than orange will make him guess and loose
critical time.
Even if totally untrained man opens smocking hood and well see
all dark wires and couple of bright orange ones, what his first
impulse (re)action be without much thinking? "Just cut those off
first, they look suspiciosly different from others".
*Make* him think that way. Perhaps orange was picked by OEMs
because it is different from everything else traditionally used
so far.
Again, reasons are irrelevant as the color itself.
Can't change it and no need to.
Only [somewhat settled] people's perception/reaction is relevant.
Just take advantage of it.
Victor
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >
>>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: April 16, 2005 9:06 AM
>>To: EV Discussion List
>>Subject: Re: Wire Gauge questions
>>
>><< Orange sounds good for positive, with orange-and-black for negative.
>>I'm sure I've got appropriately colored electrical tape around here
>>somewhere...
>>
>>Jude >>
>>
>>How about green for negative (DC)/neutral (AC)? They list it as an option
>
> at
>
>>http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--2-0.html
>>
>
>
> My take on this would be that RED is positive, BLACK is negative; GREEN is
> an earth or frame ground safety.
>
> I find it confusing enough that in A/C BLACK is the switched HOT line and
> WHITE is return while in DC usually RED is the switched +'v line and BLACK
> is the -'v and usually the common return line.
>
> I would guess you might use a separate wire to ensure the many metal parts
> in the high voltage system were all connected electrically especially if
you
> are trying to keep the low voltage DC and the high voltage DC systems
> isolated. I would also guess you might use GREEN for this to be
consistent
> with the use in A/C systems which people are familiar. I would not guess
> that GREEN was the D/C negative line, which is usually BLACK. Maybe it
> should be GREEEN with an ORANGE stripe :-)
>
> Does anyone wire an isolated safety ground in the high voltage systems on
> cars? I don't recall it ever being mentioned.
>
> Lawrence
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not clear on why "emergency personnel"(firefighters?), might want
to cut my cables?
Imagine it setup like this: battery pack in the trunk. You know what
a big battery pack looks like and someone would have to be
crazy(foolish?) to go cutting one of those cables.
2 cables going under the carpet through the firewall to the Zilla. 2
short cables from the Zilla to the motor.
Why would someone want to cut those?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The T-Zero is based on a Brit kit car. Can't think of the name
right now but someone off list pointed me towards the Brit
site a few weeks back.
Dave
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-> Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
-> Sent: April 18, 2005 1:42 PM
-> To: [email protected]
-> Subject: Re: Build an EV from the ground up
->
->
-> That Riot car looks like a tzero....
->
-> http://www.thunderranch.com/riot.html
->
-> http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm
->
-> Is that what the tzero is based off of or built from?
->
->
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At highway speeds, shifitng into first can explode the clutch (after
> the synchomesh cones hate you).
A few years back, Steven Lough accidentally towed his Ion-1 VW kit car
EV in 1st gear from Seattle to Vancouver for one of VEVA's EV shows. As
I recall, the clutch failed but tranny, flywheel, and motor all
survived.
> If you do engage the flywheel and motor, they flywheel would rupture.
'Could', not 'would', I believe.
> You can shift to first in an ICE, like an EV. Generally, it is
> pretty difficult to do this, shifting from 4th to 1st instead
> You can shift to first in an ICE, like an EV. Generally, it is
> pretty difficult to do this, shifting from 4th to 1st instead
> of 3rd or 5th.
>
> My cousin tried this and exploded the clutch before he managed to do
> further harm on a S-10.
It seems to vary from vehicle to vehicle. In my teens I once managed to
hit reverse insead of 4th after winding my Datsun B210 up pretty good in
3rd (not moving very fast, just spinning furiously in snow/slush ;^). I
realised my mistake when the car started hopping up and down, but
nothing was damaged. I went through a couple rear ends in that car, but
never a tranny or clutch.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
I'm not clear on why "emergency personnel"(firefighters?), might want
to cut my cables?
Because the first thing on their mind is that your battery
is keep fueling the trouble spot. Cut off the power sourse and
the trouble may go away.
Like how do you extinguish an arc? Disconnect (physically
cut off if nesessary) the power source which maintains that arc.
Must be intuitive.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In black or red 2/0 in 100' lengths, best price I could get
> here in Tucson is $1.85/ft. Nobody has orange or even knows
> where to get it.
I wouldn't lose much sleep over finding orange cable, but suspect that
if you call around to a few industrial wiring/cable suppliers you will
find one that carries either the Carol Super Vu-Tron welding cable or
the Superior Essex UL-Listed welding cable, both of which are orange.
It seems that orange may be the standard colour for UL-listed welding
cable, so calling around for UL-listed welding cable may get a better
response than asking for orange.
You should also find that the industrial suppliers quote a better price
than welding/solar suppliers.
Other than that, Wesbell Electronics Inc appears to carry it, although
they are not local to you (they are in NH):
<http://www.wesbellinc.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=67>
You could also try going to the General Cable site and emailing them an
inquiry asking them to point you to the nearest distributor to you that
handles the Super Vu-Tron cable. They were helpful when I asked,
including letting me know that Home Depot *may* carry it, and can
special order it in for you if they haven't got it in stock.
You aren't going to need 100' even to wire a truck, and if worst came to
worst, you could always try ordering it from the same distributor I
bought mine at:
E.C.S. Electrical Cable Supply Ltd.
Phone: 604-276-9473
Toll free: 1-800-661-4165 (within B.C.)
Fax: 604-276-9915
(they are located in Richmond, British Columbia, Canada, even less local
to you ;^).
They have a CDN$50 minimum order, sell the Super Vu-Tron by the meter
(3.3ft/meter). At the time I bought mine, I paid CDN$8.50/meter, which
was US$1.69/ft, and about US$2.08/ft today (though I don't know what the
price is today - copper has gone up lately). They do accept credit
cards.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland. What I'm asking:
Can I ignore (not measure) voltage if it is less than 1.5VPC?
Also, your chart refers to the entire pack.
Also,
According to your chart if all the batteries are 15V but one is 11.5V
(totally dead, 0% SOC), the light is green, all OK.
So how far apart a battery must be from the average before driver gets
warning?
0.1V? 0.5V? 5%? 20%?
Same about lowest to highest delta - if it is too large but average
is normal - there is still a problem.
Consider pack of 4 batts:
14V
14V
13V
13V
Average is 13.5V, normal, your system will lit green. Delta is 1V.
After abuse:
16V
15V
12V
11V
Average is still 13.5V - very "normal". Your system lit green.
Delta is 5V though and I can detect that.
So is it 5V? 1V?
Victor
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Victor,
I have a General Electric instruments, which is program by them to display a
Cutoff point, a Red warning zone, a Yellow and Amber warning zone and the
normal operating Green zone.
These are integrated into the battery amp meter and volt meter that has a
optional electronic circuit boards.
It is calibrated for a 300 AH- 180 volt battery pack.
The display reads like follows which I will reference to a 2 volt cell, a 6
volt battery, a 12 volt battery and 180 volt battery pack:
2 volt 6 volt 12 volt 180 volt Status
2.11 6.33 12.66 189.9 Charge-No Load
2.00 6.00 12.00 180.0 Normal - Green
1.88 5.66 11.33 170.0 Low - Yellow
1.77 5.33 10.66 160.0 Warning - Amber
1.66 4.99 9.99 150.0 Cutoff - Red
The indicated color bar range for a 12 volt battery would be display as:
Volt Range Indication Specific Gravity Percent.
15.33 to 11.33 Green 1.277 to 1.172 50%
11.33 to 10.66 Yellow 1.172 to 1.148 40%
10.66 to 9.99 Amber 1.148 to 1.124 30%
Below 9.99 Red 1.124 -30%
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I'm sure John Bryan would comment on this if he were still on the list, as
he has a vaporizing system on his gasser and it gets high mileage. I
believe he was into high mileage carburetors at an early age, prior to
getting into EV's...
Having converted my genny from gas to propane so I could extend the range
of my truck when pulling a trailer, I went with a dedicated propane
conversion kit. With a dedicated system, the propane is injected at the
same point as the gasoline was, and the genny has the same power. If I
wanted to use both fuels, the propane adapter would have injected the
propane between the existing gas carburetor and the air cleaner, and the
engine would have had less power. This is why you hear that propane gives
you less power when people add a propane adapter and still use gasoline. I
believe that propane does have a lower BTU compared to gasoline, but for a
low HP engine like this with the propane injected at the carburetor and the
fuel mixture adjusted correctly, it works great!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:50:19 -0700
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
><< Just hauled out an old copy of Electrifying Times (Vol 8 #1&2 Running on
>Vapor)
>which summarizes the vaporized gasoline pre-carb legend.
>
>Don't know how much hooey - (it does smack of conspiracy theory), but a lot of
>first hand experience and patents are cited. >>
>
>If vaporizing gasoline made any difference, wouldn't that mean CNG- or
>LP-fueled
>engines would run at higher efficiencies? They don't, as far as I know - they
>burn cleaner, but from what I've read, the energy-out/energy-in percentage
>isn't notably better. Maybe those that get any increased mileage are "running
>on fumes", driving off the higher volatility hydrocarbons the heat process
>releases, but sending the heavier, harder-to-vaporize compounds back to the
>tank, meaning they either have to keep making adjustments throughout each
>refill, or just refill the tank sooner and sooner with each fill-up...but
>that's just a theory.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ray and All,
I'd go for a Ford GT40 lookalike like the
Valkrie from Fiberfab to take advantage of Ford coming
out with a new GT40 this yr at $140k!!!
Fiberfab make a high quality one at a much
more reasonable price than many others like
Factory Five.
Another favorite of mine are the 64 Ferrari
Daytona look alikes usually called the Daytona that
can also be found at reasonable prices if you shop.
Much lower if you supply your own chassis and just buy
the body.
Both are enclosed coupes that if done
Waylandized style could bring a real nice price if
sold. I'd bet a good one would bring $40k+ and cost
about $15-20k to build first class.
The advantages of doing them is they are new
EV's in every sense of the word. With their
lightweight will give great speed, preformance
compared to almost anyother type of EV you could build
without building completely from scratch like I do.
A good business model would build one for
yourself for a show model and offer custom made ones
on order.
If you build on spec they consider it used
so if only offering new builts you get much better
prices and if they are in a hurry, you can sell them
the one you are driving for good money.
It would be easy for someone to build 3-10
yr in their garage and make a real good living plus
your costs would go way down as you would get
discounts from the kit builder and other suppliers
after the first one.
And income on a $20K investment of $100k/yr
should be fairly easy if you do good work. The rich
and movie stars, ect really want cool EV's and are
willing to pay for them.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That Riot car looks like a tzero....
>
> http://www.thunderranch.com/riot.html
>
>
http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm
>
>
> Is that what the tzero is based off of or built
> from?
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Ray and All,
I'd go for a Ford GT40 lookalike
I like the Jaguar XJ13 replica by Denis Bedford at
http://www.copycatcars.com/infoaboutus.htm.
He's had 40 years experience designing and building Cobra and GT40 kits
and is now producing a CD-ROM describing how to design and build a kit
car from scratch (using XJ13 as an example). In progress pics on the
website. CD should be ready soon.
Would make an *awesome* EV!!
Baby steps though. My goal is to convert a ute first as I'm a complete
newbie.
--
Regards,
Brian Hay.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I like the Jaguar XJ13 replica by Denis Bedford at
> http://www.copycatcars.com/infoaboutus.htm.
Brian, this is exactly what I am looking for. Thanks for the help.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brian and All,
--- Brian Hay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > Hi Ray and All,
> > I'd go for a Ford GT40 lookalike
>
> I like the Jaguar XJ13 replica by Denis Bedford at
> http://www.copycatcars.com/infoaboutus.htm.
>
> He's had 40 years experience designing and building
> Cobra and GT40 kits
> and is now producing a CD-ROM describing how to
> design and build a kit
> car from scratch (using XJ13 as an example). In
> progress pics on the
> website. CD should be ready soon.
>
> Would make an *awesome* EV!!
Yes it would but only a masocist would build one
like that from scratch as many have been started and
few finished!!
Instead start with a done body which can be had
fairly cheap and you stand a chance of actually
getting it built.
It's much cheaper spending $3-5K for a good body
than spend yrs trying to make one yourself.
I know because I do these things for a living and
even for me it's not easy. Right now doing an all
composite 3wh, 2F1r sportwagon like the Doran but with
a wagon rear and taller.
But I expect to build many from it's molds to
make all the work to do it worthwhile.
So don't be penny wise and pound foolish and buy
a good body to start with. You'll be amazed at how
hard all those details like windows, ect are so you
actually save money going this way too.
Or you could do the body the easy way and build
it from wood/epoxy and finish it clear taking much
less time and looks great, strong and light plus only
costs about $600 for the body materials and you can
build the chassis from wood/epoxy too, saving much
money, weight there!! I did!
One off fiberglass though is for the skilled,
not the amature.
>
> Baby steps though. My goal is to convert a ute first
> as I'm a complete
> newbie.
Then only go for an older Blazer or Susuki ones or
you'll end up with a lot of weight and costs.
And older compact pick up frame is a good thing to
use as a chassis for a Kitcar EV as it holds weight
well, very low costs and the kitcar bodies have low
aero drag.
Go this way and use a trailer for hauling stuff
and you will be much better of for a great EV. Better
in fact than 90% of those out there now.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Brian Hay.
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Now that the New Beetle is nearing completion I am turning by attention to
> building an EV sports car from the ground up.
being the hopless gearhead and Mopar fanatic that I am one car that seemed
overlooked in that catagory is the early Barracudas. They are extremely
light have ample room in the front and back for batterys, and many of the
harder to find parts are easily upgraded to modern equipment with bolt on
swaps. (front discs and modern brakes from later Darts). Would also make a
fine head turner, and the pre '67s can be found relitivly inexpensivly
still.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To check the unbalance of the batteries, I just read the voltage of two halves
of the pack, four quarters, and eight sections. I will stop there if all the
battery sections volt difference is still in with 0.02 volts. I normally do
this every 6 months.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Tikhonov<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Question to lead batteries experts
Thanks Roland. What I'm asking:
Can I ignore (not measure) voltage if it is less than 1.5VPC?
Also, your chart refers to the entire pack.
Also,
According to your chart if all the batteries are 15V but one is 11.5V
(totally dead, 0% SOC), the light is green, all OK.
So how far apart a battery must be from the average before driver gets
warning?
0.1V? 0.5V? 5%? 20%?
Same about lowest to highest delta - if it is too large but average
is normal - there is still a problem.
Consider pack of 4 batts:
14V
14V
13V
13V
Average is 13.5V, normal, your system will lit green. Delta is 1V.
After abuse:
16V
15V
12V
11V
Average is still 13.5V - very "normal". Your system lit green.
Delta is 5V though and I can detect that.
So is it 5V? 1V?
Victor
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Victor,
>
> I have a General Electric instruments, which is program by them to display
a Cutoff point, a Red warning zone, a Yellow and Amber warning zone and the
normal operating Green zone.
>
> These are integrated into the battery amp meter and volt meter that has a
optional electronic circuit boards.
>
> It is calibrated for a 300 AH- 180 volt battery pack.
>
> The display reads like follows which I will reference to a 2 volt cell, a 6
volt battery, a 12 volt battery and 180 volt battery pack:
>
> 2 volt 6 volt 12 volt 180 volt Status
>
> 2.11 6.33 12.66 189.9 Charge-No Load
> 2.00 6.00 12.00 180.0 Normal - Green
> 1.88 5.66 11.33 170.0 Low - Yellow
> 1.77 5.33 10.66 160.0 Warning - Amber
> 1.66 4.99 9.99 150.0 Cutoff - Red
>
>
> The indicated color bar range for a 12 volt battery would be display as:
>
>
> Volt Range Indication Specific Gravity Percent.
>
> 15.33 to 11.33 Green 1.277 to 1.172 50%
> 11.33 to 10.66 Yellow 1.172 to 1.148 40%
> 10.66 to 9.99 Amber 1.148 to 1.124 30%
> Below 9.99 Red 1.124 -30%
>
> Roland
--- End Message ---
