EV Digest 4302
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Pics of the Big Guy...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Valence, etc.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) TEVan Charger
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: PV/EV Workshop on June 4
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Valence, etc.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fwd: Pics of the Big Guy,
mechanical questions (was Re: New EV Dragster)
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Jump-starting?
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re Jump-starting?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Alabama and Suggestions
by "Donald Riner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Jump-starting?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Jump-starting?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Source for DC motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Need help with Curtis 1204 Controller
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Need help with Curtis 1204 Controller
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Jump-starting?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was Re: New EV Dragster)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Jet 007 motor adapter & coupler
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Jet 007 motor adapter & coupler
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Gettting EVery word out
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Seems like anything mechanical you could possibly need
is there
http://www.strangeengineering.net/catalog/toc.html
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
there are a few things to factor in , like how many cycles , a battery that
can give 6 time the cycles but costs 6 times as much , may appear to cost
the same but replacing the agm's 6 times might make some feel that Li are
better ( those who don't like changing batteries) , there is also the weight
factor , what would it be worth to have a pack that was 1/2 the weight but 2
times that ahs .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: Valence, etc.
So when are these batteries(or any Li.*) going to be cost competitive
to lead acid? Will we ever be able to pull AGM type current draws
from them?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The TEVan Charger is built into the controller box. It is a Martin
Marietta. Most of the later ones are PFC. I believe the charger control
card is the same for all three battery types, Ni-Cad, Nickel-Iron and
Lead-acid. The difference is in the firmware.
Rod Hower was instrumental in the development of the charging algorythm. He
may still be of some help.
BTW, none were built with Lead-acid batteries.
I have a preliminary schematic for the charger control card and also a
later marked up copy that is dated sometime in late '93. The preliminary
one has notes on it for Ni-Fe. They appear to be the same schematic.
I would be more than happy to make copies of them if it will help anyone
out.
I have a small problem with my own card, but have a very safe and effective
work-around.
I recieved a call a couple of years ago from a TEVan owner in the Chicago
area but don't remember his name. IIRC he bought his from Dan Buckshot and
it was not running either.
The 'other' TEVan from the Niagra Mowhawk auction went to California and it
had a spare Controller/Charger box. I know the new owner is on the list and
understand that he is having problems getting his figured out also.
If I can help in any way, just ask. Just don't ask me to give up any of my
parts.. hi hi.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
.... if Dodge has put in any safety/secret/interlock systems that might
prevent you from charging. You'd have to work around any such issues, of
course.
What is wrong with the present charger? What exactly is it? Naturally it
is an "orphan" and they supplied no documentation; but that does not
mean it can't be reverse-engineered to figure out how it's supposed to
work, and what it wrong with it. Even if it can't be fixed with "genuine
Dodge parts" (because there aren't any), we can probably find modern
substitutes to get it working.
You can also rig up a temporary charger with a big variac and isolation
transformer, bridge rectifier, and voltage and current meters. I believe
they are Eagle-Picher batteries; they can provide details on the
charging algorithm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sherry, your comment about saving money instantly got my
attention. If I understand correctly, one can borrow the
money to install a PV system and pay less to repay the
borrowed money than to buy electricity. That sounds too
good to be true. Has anyone actually done this and saved
money?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherry Boschert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: PV/EV Workshop on June 4
Please forward to anyone in the San Francisco area who
doesn't yet have that EV grin...
JUNE 4: SOLAR POWER + ELECTRIC VEHICLES WORKSHOP
Why buy gas and drive a polluting car when you could
be in a zero-emission electric vehicle that
essentially runs on sunshine? Adding solar
photovoltaic (PV) panels to your home and using an
electric vehicle (EV) is a winning combination for
both your wallet and the planet.
Learn more and ride in an EV at a free PV/EV Workshop
on Saturday, June 4, from 10 a.m. to 12 noon at The
San Francisco School (a solar-powered school), 300
Gaven Street between Boylston and Bowdoin in the
Portola neighborhood.
Please r.s.v.p. to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Solar PV panels create clean electricity. The monthly
payment for a PV system can be lower than your
previous electricity bill, saving you money instantly.
And if you drive an electric vehicle, your PV system
replaces not just household electricity but costly
gasoline, because EVs run on electricity. PV/EV
creates power without polluting and provides personal
transportation in non-polluting cars.
The PV/EV Workshop is part of the United Nations'
World Environment Day activities in San Francisco. The
event is sponsored by the San Francisco Electric
Vehicle Association (www.sfeva.org) and Occidental
Power Solar and Cogeneration, a licensed solar contractor.
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
415-681-7731
www.sfeva.org
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> what would it be worth to have a pack that was 1/2 the weight but 2
> times that ahs .
That would be nice. But I'd also like to be able to pull ~2,000 amps
from the pack...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK Rich, do I have to get out the two by four. Watch the show and you will
see the pulley come off the back on the way to the track. This damaged the
belts by riding up on the top of the teeth. Or maybe you just think it is a
sheer coincidence that that is the side that broke. Not only that, they were
up over the teeth in front of you before we ever left for Vegas. Being as
old as you are you probably forgot that little fact. The truth is the belts
were severely damaged before we got a run in and the bearings were still
moving on the outboard side. I was under there working on it. I remember the
problem and the different ways we tried to compensate for the movement. It
was not a solid set up for the belts and they never got a fair chance. We
went to chain because it was readily available for one thing. I am not going
to redo this project just to prove you wrong. I will save this for another
time. You are correct that bigger teeth make for a stronger drive but they
did not make them in the ratio we chose which turned out to be ideal in my
opinion. 72 to 98 mph in 5.1 seconds from the eighth with a lunched tranny
and turned down controllers. I rest my case.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
I whole hardly dissagree Rod
We broke them with solid torque.
I have a couple of them right here.
No, the numbers I came up with, was we were making 4800 lbs of stress
minumum on the belts. FT and the Goodyear Rep were lead to believe that 1300
Ftlbs was what they were good for.
Ftlbs of torque and Lbs of stress are two very different data points. Plus
it's rather clear that we did not have the minimum teeth count to handle the
torque on the driven pulleys.
Stick with Chain or Steel gear sets if you are going over 200 lbs of
torque.
Otmar punches 400 ft lbs through these belts, But his driven is 6 inches in
diameter, and he has the 14 mm pitch teeth.
Lets keep the BS to a Minimum Rod... Even with a solid bearing setup We
still blew the belts at about 1/2 the amps we could make. That would be
about 1/3 the torque we could make.
You might want to ask FT... I don't think he Buys this line this year. Last
year maybe...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
Philippe, please do not believe what you see on TV or even everything you
read on this list. The belts on "Gone Postal" DID NOT break due to torque.
They broke because the bearing blocks we ordered were supposed to be rigid
and in functionality the bearing ended up moving causing the belts to be
severely out of line so much so that they were forced to ride up over the
teeth and spin thus destroying the belt. F.T. aka Don Crabtree had
calculated their strength and I have every reason to believe they would
have
held with the proper bearing blocks.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
Steve,
be carreful with torque and speed on synchronous belts, Gates poly chain
is
one of the best polyurethane/kevlar belt (so strong she can outlife chain)
BUT you have to validate your design before testing, don't make same
mistake
than Gone postal ;^)
You need Gates PolyChain 14M-PCGT2 or Powergrip 14M-PGGT3
pitch 14 (biggest available)
choose maximum width 90mm or 125mm, for your power level maybe you need
two
side by side (so more than 1000KW transmission is ok)....
be carreful with belt speed because Polychain degrade faster after 4000
rev/m, Powergrip GT3 is ok up to 10 000 rev but have less torque
resistance.
be carefull with motor pulley teeth number, not enough and torque is going
to kill belt teeth at launch.
I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
fascinating project,keep us posted please,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
> Gates Poly chain is a belt
>
> I am worried about all the torque and the mounting plates also.
> What kind of motors?? Warp What? 7s or 8s?
> They look different than the Warp 8s I handled for the Uof W team two
weeks
> ago.
>
> I would love to stuff 1000 amps into them and see what happens on the
Dyno.
>
> A bit if historic warnings... the Megawatt monster of Bob Boyds, had
> tripple motors and 2 sets. For 6 motors. This package has never
performed
as
> well as it should.
> There was a LOT of parasitic losses and hard to ballence currents and
> curves.
> It should GO like heck. But it has not impressed me.
> The Silver bullet of Tom True's has a single set of these motors
from
> the Megawatt monster. I have driven it, it's fun and will rip your head
off.
> But at 120 volts it's reliable and setting record as of last year.
> But we shot for many more volts and all they did was break controllers
and
> drive train parts. With a Raptor 1200 per motor, and 120 volts They can
> atleast make many runs. They broke the rear end halfshaft at Vegas last
> year, just playing with it in first gear. GOT torque. Now they need to
get
> some high end pull. That's going to take more volts and more motor work.
>
> The plates that hold the motor in line needs to be hell for stout, and
as
> light as they can make it. There's gonna be thousands of pounds of force
> trying to crush it and bend it.
> And Joe is right in asking how the Brush end is going to be clear for
> advancing efforts.
> We will see. Steve needs to get it down the track acouple of times
before
we
> really decend on him for better designs. This one will work.
> I have no doubts from the Flywheel clutch face back. The rest is about
as
> good as it gets.
>
> I wish I had this toy Box of parts to play with....
>
> Gone Postal is a Joke compared to the level of drive train parts that
this
> Ev will have.
> Frankly this level of drive train engineering is WHAT should have been
> designed into GP, in the first place.
>
> I am Green with envey.
> Steve ???
> Need a driver????
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:57 AM
> Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
>
>
> > Wow. All three motors mounted in thin sheet metal & using one of the
> motors
> > to be the drive shaft? Nice light plan. Nice three motor
installation.
> > Otmar will be envious. That thing should fly. Are you going to use a
> Gates
> > Poly Chain or belt? LR...
> >
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth,
Verizon wouldn't allow me to send directly to your email address (the
bounce says I'm not on their whitelist?) so I'm forwarding this to the
EVDL...
Moderators: I will respect your wishes to discontinue this discussion on
this list, however it is very much in the interest of getting a cool EV on
the road, and is in reference to issues encountered with the sole cause of
gonzo electric torque... :o)
--chris
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Fwd: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was Re:
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, April 21, 2005 11:37 pm
To: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks guys for your input here ... I am definitely at a disadvantage
having no education in mech. engineering, so I apologize in advance for
any tedious explanations that may be necessary going forward.
I guess my main question is, what information can I provide that will make
the answer more certain?
Keith, I think that 1600 ft-lbs is probably a good working number,
especially given that I have no real data beyond 1400A on the older Warp
13, and no data at all on the newer version I'll be getting. Should an
extra proportion also be added to handle torsional shock loads (speed
bumps, potholes etc)? Such driveline shock will be transmitted directly
to the motor -- no clutch disk springs or other dampeners will be present
(unless it's decided I can't do without it).
Please let me know how I can help you help me. I'd like to get Netgain an
answer in the next few weeks, as they've waited for me to figure this out
for quite some time now... :o)
Thanks for your time!
--Christopher Robison
Seth Allen said:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: April 21, 2005 9:46:56 PM EDT
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was Re: New EV
Dragster)
>>
>> I did the mechanical engineering for the Super7 Kenworth hybrid at
Solectria. For the moment, not enough is known to say if 1144 is
acceptable. I can tell you that either an end milled or sled runner
keyway is not acceptable in that diameter and torque, regardless of
material.
>>
>> I specified 4340 with a heat treat, but I had a slightly smaller
diameter. The input shaft on the transmission was a 10 spline at 1.75"
diameter made of some quite hard stuff, and it was rated for 860 ft-lb
for 500,000 miles. (This was a 32,000 lb hybrid with 1000 lbs of AC
induction motors) That's 860 ft-lbs but with lots of ripple that is
difficult to characterize. I can tell you what I did, the asssumptions
I made and what worked, what we tested and where the predicted failure
was. If you want. If I get sniped at then we can take it off list.
>>
>> The vehicle:
>>
>> http://www.solectria.com/news/17sept03.html
>>
>> Seth
>>
>> P.S. I think the F.O.S. for an involute spline is lower than 2, but I
don't recall off the top of my head what I did use or how I reached the
number I used.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2005, at 7:39 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
>>
>>> I am not a mechanical engineer, but I will be in December.
>>>
>>> Here are my numbers:
>>>
>>> Torque = 1600 ft-lb = 19200 in-lb
>>> Polar Moment of Inertia (J) = (pi*dia^4)/32 = 1.57
>>> Outer Radius = 1"
>>>
>>> Shear Stress = (T*r)/J = (19200 * 1)/1.57 = 12.2 ksi
>>>
>>> I do not know the stress concentration factor for splines (and I am
sure it depends on the style), but we'll say 2 for now. The yield
stress for 1144 steel is ~90 ksi.
>>>
>>> Shear Yield Strength = .577 * Tensile Yield Strength = .577 * 90 = 51 ksi
>>>
>>> Safety Factor = Strength / (Stress * Stress Conc. Factor) =
>>> 51/(12.2*2) = 2.09
>>>
>>> Unless you can better quantify the materials, loads, and the effect
the spline has on the peak stress I wouldn't trust the shaft as is.
Easiest option is to find better steel, but you could also find a way
to attach the drive shaft that doesn't involve a spline (queue Seth to
mention Loctite 620).
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>> Philip Marino wrote:
>>>>> From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Subject: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was Re: New EV
Dragster)
>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:55:47 -0500 (CDT)
>>>>>
>>>> e.
>>>> The
>>>>> motor is supplied with a 2" shaft of untreated 1144 steel (LaSalle
calls
>>>>> it "Stressproof").
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This brings me to my main question ... from what should the shaft be
made?
>>>>> Should I choose a different material, or is 1144 sufficient? If I stay
>>>>> with 1144, should I have it heat treated? If so, to what extent (what
>>>>> hardness, etc)? How should dimensional instability during the hardening
>>>>> process be handled?
>>>>>
>>>> "Stressproof" 1144, at least according the the only references to it
I could find, is a LaSalle Steel trademark, and is not "untreated"
but is coldworked to a yield strength of 100 kpsi, and a tensile
strength of 120 kpsi, and a Rockwell hardness of C23.
>>>> This is already a moderately high strength steel - roughly double the
strength of untreated low carbon steel.
>>>> If you have a reasonable idea of the maximum torque expected, you
could bring your design ( or, even, just a sketch of your ideas) to a
mechanical engineer - preferably a stress analyst , to try to get a
prediction of what will happen under load. ( and, what strength steel
you need, if 1144 is not adequate.)
>>>> Try contacting the mechanical engineering department of a local
university ( if any) - you may get some leads as to who can help with
this.
>>>> Phil Marino
>>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an odd situation -- My 156V NiCD Force had a problem charging a
while back, the amp-hour counter was out of sync with the actual charge,
and I drove the pack almost flat getting it home. The problem must have
been related to the pack's cooling system, because when I plugged it in
for a charge, the pump that circulates the battery coolant wasn't
running. I unplugged and it's been sitting waiting for me to get around
to replacing the pump.
Tonight I pulled the pump and re-seated the brushes and it's working
again, so I decided to try charging while monitoring the pump to make
sure it doesn't fail again.
I plugged in the car and the charger won't boot. Checking the pack
voltage, it's sitting at 30 volts, and the Brusa charger needs something
like 50V to boot up. It's a really stupid design, if you ask me -- It
should be able to use the line voltage to run itself even if the pack is
too low.
So I'm stuck with a situation where I need to somehow get that pack
voltage kicked up to around 50V -- Any suggestions? I have our 144V
Solectria E-10 sitting right there, is there a safe way to have it give
the Force a "transfusion"? Or can I rig some other way? I also have a
spare, standard Brusa NLG412 charger that doesn't require the pack
voltage, but to do any charging, it's gonna want temperature sensors and
stuff hooked up.
Suggestions appreciated!
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< So I'm stuck with a situation where I need to somehow get that pack
voltage kicked up to around 50V -- Any suggestions? I have our 144V
Solectria E-10 sitting right there, is there a safe way to have it give
the Force a "transfusion"? Or can I rig some other way? I also have a
spare, standard Brusa NLG412 charger that doesn't require the pack
voltage, but to do any charging, it's gonna want temperature sensors and
stuff hooked up.
Suggestions appreciated!
-Tom >>
Can you disconnect the Brusa? You might want to do that before you do this:
charge the pack with (from easiest to hardest) a 48V or higher "dumb" charger;
variac+bridge rectifier, or a dump pack of a PbAc batteries. The "rapid charge"
chriteria from SAFT says no more than 40min if you happen to have a setup that
hits a 1.5C limit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
I'll help you troubleshoot if I can. Where is your car located?
I live in Muscle Shoals, AL and would enjoy working on
something other than my Electrica 007.
Donnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Marcus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: Alabama and Suggestions
> First, anybody in this group -- or anyone else known
> -- in Northern Alabama/Southern TN? Here in
> NASCARland driving an EV is a pretty big social
> challenge!
>
> Second, any suggestions?: I am troubleshooting. I had
> that which we all hate most, dying while cruising down
> the road. The pack (12 T-145s) is still charged (56v
> by hand voltmeter). The motor is making the right
> sounds. But when the "gas" is depressed the car
> doesn't move (forward or reverse). The problem occured
> suddenly (like when there is blown fuse or popped
> wire). The line from the pedal itself has appropriate
> tension and movement. Anyone have ideas on where to
> begin investigating?
>
> thanks.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 22 Apr 2005 at 0:14, Tom Hudson wrote:
> I plugged in the car and the charger won't boot. Checking the pack
> voltage, it's sitting at 30 volts, and the Brusa charger needs something
> like 50V to boot up. It's a really stupid design, if you ask me -- It
> should be able to use the line voltage to run itself even if the pack is
> too low.
The charger has to use the battery so its logic board will be powered all the
time. Otherwise the pilot counter wouldn't work.
>
> So I'm stuck with a situation where I need to somehow get that pack
> voltage kicked up to around 50V -- Any suggestions?
I've used the dumb old Fair Radio charger to charge it just enough to bring it
up to around 70-80 volts.
It'd be harder to do with another vehicle. You'd probably have to tap the
other
vehicle's pack to keep the current low enough.
You might also try temporarily connecting a few extra batteries (lead
batteries if need be) in series with the pack, to raise the voltage a bit.
Once
you have the charger going and have squirted a little current into it, you
could
remove the extra batteries.
dr
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/22/05, Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have an odd situation -- My 156V NiCD Force had a problem charging a
> while back, the amp-hour counter was out of sync with the actual charge,
> and I drove the pack almost flat getting it home. The problem must have
> been related to the pack's cooling system, because when I plugged it in
> for a charge, the pump that circulates the battery coolant wasn't
> running. I unplugged and it's been sitting waiting for me to get around
> to replacing the pump.
>
> Tonight I pulled the pump and re-seated the brushes and it's working
> again, so I decided to try charging while monitoring the pump to make
> sure it doesn't fail again.
>
> I plugged in the car and the charger won't boot. Checking the pack
> voltage, it's sitting at 30 volts, and the Brusa charger needs something
> like 50V to boot up. It's a really stupid design, if you ask me -- It
> should be able to use the line voltage to run itself even if the pack is
> too low.
>
> So I'm stuck with a situation where I need to somehow get that pack
> voltage kicked up to around 50V -- Any suggestions? I have our 144V
> Solectria E-10 sitting right there, is there a safe way to have it give
> the Force a "transfusion"? Or can I rig some other way? I also have a
> spare, standard Brusa NLG412 charger that doesn't require the pack
> voltage, but to do any charging, it's gonna want temperature sensors and
> stuff hooked up.
>
> Suggestions appreciated!
If you can easily get to the pack connections on the two vehicles, you
could give a "safe" jump charge by connecting the pack negatives
together, and connecting a normal 100W light bulb between the positive
connections. 144-30 = 114V, just right for a 120V light bulb - the
Force's voltage should slowly come up enough for the charger to kick
in, if that's what it's waiting for.
Be safe and double check everything before you make any connections.
Good luck!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This place http://www.3rivers.net/~cmac/index.html has lots of dc-powered
things, as well as a few DC motors that might work for EVs ("Electric DC
Motors" near the bottom of the index).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am doing something wrong.
This is my first experience with any controller.
It is a Curtis 1204 36-48 VDC 225AMP
I bought it used and when I could not make it work I sent it back to be
tested.
They tried it in a golf cart and it worked.
Since this is my second 'DOA' from 2 different sources, I am pretty sure
that it is me that is not working and not the controller.
It seemed simple enough:
Battery plus to Controller plus.
Battery minus to controller minus.
Motor plus to Controller plus.
Motor minus to 2nd Controller minus.
Center of 10k pot to control terminal #2
End of 10k pot to control terminal #3
Battery plus to key terminal #1
I twist the pot one way and then the other, or I set it to 2K ohms.
Nothing!
Is there something that I am missing? A technique or a subtle hint?
Stu
www.stulieberman.com <http://www.stulieberman.com/> photos of $100
homebuilt elevator, recumbent trike, etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/22/05, Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am doing something wrong.
>
> This is my first experience with any controller.
>
> It is a Curtis 1204 36-48 VDC 225AMP
>
> I bought it used and when I could not make it work I sent it back to be
> tested.
>
> They tried it in a golf cart and it worked.
>
> Since this is my second 'DOA' from 2 different sources, I am pretty sure
> that it is me that is not working and not the controller.
>
> It seemed simple enough:
>
> Battery plus to Controller plus.
>
> Battery minus to controller minus.
>
> Motor plus to Controller plus.
>
> Motor minus to 2nd Controller minus.
>
> Center of 10k pot to control terminal #2
>
> End of 10k pot to control terminal #3
>
> Battery plus to key terminal #1
>
> I twist the pot one way and then the other, or I set it to 2K ohms.
> Nothing!
>
> Is there something that I am missing? A technique or a subtle hint?
You need to make sure that when you apply the power to the KSI
terminal, the throttle is at the "off" position - zero ohms. The
controller won't start otherwise.
Hope that helps
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
tom a trick i use on our French EV:
220V variac set to 120V + rectifier bridge +jumper cables,
after about 10 minutes quick surface "charge" plug your charger.
(I use variac to step down our 220V which is too much for a 120V pack but
you can use a simple cord + rectifier from your 110V US plug)
Sleeping nicad have a fast voltage rise to their empty 1V per cell just few
minutes after connection.
this system has never failed, nicad is magic in this way.
be careful with cooling system effectiveness, it's the waranty of your nicad
long life !
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: Jump-starting?
> I have an odd situation -- My 156V NiCD Force had a problem charging a
> while back, the amp-hour counter was out of sync with the actual charge,
> and I drove the pack almost flat getting it home. The problem must have
> been related to the pack's cooling system, because when I plugged it in
> for a charge, the pump that circulates the battery coolant wasn't
> running. I unplugged and it's been sitting waiting for me to get around
> to replacing the pump.
>
> Tonight I pulled the pump and re-seated the brushes and it's working
> again, so I decided to try charging while monitoring the pump to make
> sure it doesn't fail again.
>
> I plugged in the car and the charger won't boot. Checking the pack
> voltage, it's sitting at 30 volts, and the Brusa charger needs something
> like 50V to boot up. It's a really stupid design, if you ask me -- It
> should be able to use the line voltage to run itself even if the pack is
> too low.
>
> So I'm stuck with a situation where I need to somehow get that pack
> voltage kicked up to around 50V -- Any suggestions? I have our 144V
> Solectria E-10 sitting right there, is there a safe way to have it give
> the Force a "transfusion"? Or can I rig some other way? I also have a
> spare, standard Brusa NLG412 charger that doesn't require the pack
> voltage, but to do any charging, it's gonna want temperature sensors and
> stuff hooked up.
>
> Suggestions appreciated!
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, I never saw a posting against discussion of this.
I have to get to my day job, but I can run through numbers tonight
probably.
Seth
On Apr 22, 2005, at 12:52 AM, Christopher Robison wrote:
Seth,
Verizon wouldn't allow me to send directly to your email address (the
bounce says I'm not on their whitelist?) so I'm forwarding this to the
EVDL...
Moderators: I will respect your wishes to discontinue this discussion
on
this list, however it is very much in the interest of getting a cool
EV on
the road, and is in reference to issues encountered with the sole
cause of
gonzo electric torque... :o)
--chris
---------------------------- Original Message
----------------------------
Subject: Re: Fwd: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was
Re:
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, April 21, 2005 11:37 pm
To: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Thanks guys for your input here ... I am definitely at a disadvantage
having no education in mech. engineering, so I apologize in advance for
any tedious explanations that may be necessary going forward.
I guess my main question is, what information can I provide that will
make
the answer more certain?
Keith, I think that 1600 ft-lbs is probably a good working number,
especially given that I have no real data beyond 1400A on the older
Warp
13, and no data at all on the newer version I'll be getting. Should an
extra proportion also be added to handle torsional shock loads (speed
bumps, potholes etc)? Such driveline shock will be transmitted
directly
to the motor -- no clutch disk springs or other dampeners will be
present
(unless it's decided I can't do without it).
Please let me know how I can help you help me. I'd like to get
Netgain an
answer in the next few weeks, as they've waited for me to figure this
out
for quite some time now... :o)
Thanks for your time!
--Christopher Robison
Seth Allen said:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: April 21, 2005 9:46:56 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was Re: New
EV
Dragster)
I did the mechanical engineering for the Super7 Kenworth hybrid at
Solectria. For the moment, not enough is known to say if 1144 is
acceptable. I can tell you that either an end milled or sled runner
keyway is not acceptable in that diameter and torque, regardless of
material.
I specified 4340 with a heat treat, but I had a slightly smaller
diameter. The input shaft on the transmission was a 10 spline at 1.75"
diameter made of some quite hard stuff, and it was rated for 860 ft-lb
for 500,000 miles. (This was a 32,000 lb hybrid with 1000 lbs of AC
induction motors) That's 860 ft-lbs but with lots of ripple that is
difficult to characterize. I can tell you what I did, the asssumptions
I made and what worked, what we tested and where the predicted failure
was. If you want. If I get sniped at then we can take it off list.
The vehicle:
http://www.solectria.com/news/17sept03.html
Seth
P.S. I think the F.O.S. for an involute spline is lower than 2, but I
don't recall off the top of my head what I did use or how I reached the
number I used.
On Apr 21, 2005, at 7:39 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
I am not a mechanical engineer, but I will be in December.
Here are my numbers:
Torque = 1600 ft-lb = 19200 in-lb
Polar Moment of Inertia (J) = (pi*dia^4)/32 = 1.57
Outer Radius = 1"
Shear Stress = (T*r)/J = (19200 * 1)/1.57 = 12.2 ksi
I do not know the stress concentration factor for splines (and I am
sure it depends on the style), but we'll say 2 for now. The yield
stress for 1144 steel is ~90 ksi.
Shear Yield Strength = .577 * Tensile Yield Strength = .577 * 90 =
51 ksi
Safety Factor = Strength / (Stress * Stress Conc. Factor) =
51/(12.2*2) = 2.09
Unless you can better quantify the materials, loads, and the effect
the spline has on the peak stress I wouldn't trust the shaft as is.
Easiest option is to find better steel, but you could also find a way
to attach the drive shaft that doesn't involve a spline (queue Seth to
mention Loctite 620).
Keith
Philip Marino wrote:
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pics of the Big Guy, mechanical questions (was Re: New EV
Dragster)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:55:47 -0500 (CDT)
e.
The
motor is supplied with a 2" shaft of untreated 1144 steel (LaSalle
calls
it "Stressproof").
This brings me to my main question ... from what should the shaft
be
made?
Should I choose a different material, or is 1144 sufficient? If I
stay
with 1144, should I have it heat treated? If so, to what extent
(what
hardness, etc)? How should dimensional instability during the
hardening
process be handled?
"Stressproof" 1144, at least according the the only references to
it
I could find, is a LaSalle Steel trademark, and is not "untreated"
but is coldworked to a yield strength of 100 kpsi, and a tensile
strength of 120 kpsi, and a Rockwell hardness of C23.
This is already a moderately high strength steel - roughly double
the
strength of untreated low carbon steel.
If you have a reasonable idea of the maximum torque expected, you
could bring your design ( or, even, just a sketch of your ideas) to a
mechanical engineer - preferably a stress analyst , to try to get a
prediction of what will happen under load. ( and, what strength steel
you need, if 1144 is not adequate.)
Try contacting the mechanical engineering department of a local
university ( if any) - you may get some leads as to who can help with
this.
Phil Marino
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Does anyone happen to have the adapter plate and motor shaft coupler from a
Jet Electrica 007 Omni/Horizon conversion? I picked up a 9" GE from a
Bradley GTE kit and we have a local EVer who is re-converting a stripped
Rabbit EV. Since the Omni/Horizon used a Rabbit trans, one of the adapter
sets from a Jet 007 would seem to be an excellent solution to coupling his
drive line up. If anyone knows where I can put my hands on such an animal,
please let me know.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
You could check with:
Flight Systems Industrial Products
I think there address is www.flindl.com/-3k<http://www.flindl.com/-3k>
But you can get there by just typing in Flight Systems Industrial Products.
They made complete conversion kits for VW and other small cars. They had the
whole line of motors, controllers, adapters, vehicle frame mods and aircraft
style instruments for any readout you ever want. Just like my instrument
panels in my EV.
They did this several years ago, but they still repair, maintain and have parts
in stock.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chancey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 6:39 AM
Subject: Jet 007 motor adapter & coupler
Hi folks,
Does anyone happen to have the adapter plate and motor shaft coupler from a
Jet Electrica 007 Omni/Horizon conversion? I picked up a 9" GE from a
Bradley GTE kit and we have a local EVer who is re-converting a stripped
Rabbit EV. Since the Omni/Horizon used a Rabbit trans, one of the adapter
sets from a Jet 007 would seem to be an excellent solution to coupling his
drive line up. If anyone knows where I can put my hands on such an animal,
please let me know.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com<http://evalbum.com/>
My Electric Car at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda<http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda>
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org<http://maeaa.org/>
Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html<http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html>
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Friends,
This was a great week for me; trying to EVangelize
the masses.
First, I've had a partnership with the local Junior
College (JC). There's a mech-tech instructor there who
hit it off really well with me 6 years ago, and I've
demo'd the car there once or twice a year ever since.
This time, I brought "Convert It", and the powerpoint
presentation I put together. Usually the students are
interested, but only to a point. _This_ year, I'm
telling you, they were believers. Two of 8 took down
the book info and are ready to start on their own
conversions.
Second, I wrote a letter to the editor. As always,
they hacked it for space. (I had attacked GM for
smashing the EV-1, of course). It is published in
today's ORegonian.
People, these are the steps we need to take. If
_each_ of us shows up to a local JC with our cars, at
10 kids or better per class, it makes a difference.
Another benefit: if you have an issue you lack
expertise in, say, changing out a 1/2-shaft, it can be
quid-pro-quo; you pay parts and do your demo, the
students supply labor. I'd call that a win-win.
Chuckling along in electric car
I was one of probably 50 Oregonians to chuckle at your
article, "Lack of fuel sources hurts West." The
article asserts that because our state lacks refining
capacity, all drivers are affected, to the tune of 30
cents to 40 cents per gallon.
My "fuel link" is about 20 steps to the garage. I
simply plug my 1992 Honda Civic conversion into the
wall to charge the 18 batteries that power it. Even
with the added cost of purchasing electric power from
wind power, my "fueling" cost is $6 per month.
There are about 4,000 of us across the nation who have
taken about $7,000 and some electronic and
metal-fabricating know-how to break the addiction to
oil. Most of our cars use lead-acid batteries and get
a range of 40 miles -- ample for most of our
commuting. Recent battery technology, however, would
extend our range to more than 100 miles.
Unfortunately, most people don't understand that
alternatives to petroleum exist, if we just question
the status quo.
BOB BATH Grants Pass
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
