EV Digest 4312
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: curtis
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Electric Dragster For Sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Value of electric 7 EV?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Brusa NLG412 programming question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Valence, etc.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Got my taperlock hub off!
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Value of electric 7 EV?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Trains an' Stuff
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I'll have a 1221-7401B (non-squealer) for sale soon, with complete
electric car attached!
Regards
Evan
On 4/25/05, steve ollerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone got a Curtis 1231C, second hand that they would wish to sell for
> my "mini" project.
>
> Offers off list please.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
> P.S. where you live would be useful to know too!
>
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt Holthausen said:
> Just perusing through this, I noticed something...There are two wheels
> connected to the differential, so isn't the torque that the axles have
> to handle cut in half? This would help the smaller size make (more)
> sense, but it still makes the figure you're working with about a fifth
> of that. Disregard this if I'm wrong...
>
> Matt Holthausen
That's correct, but all I'm talking about is the torque rating for the
axles themselves. What you're referring to may be helpful in choosing an
axle for a particular application. I have yet to put together the rear
end for this truck, so I'll be thinking about these issues soon.
Check this page (and note my error in quoting the torque capacity, it's
12,000, not 14,000):
http://www.moserengineering.com/moser_interior/axletech.htm
Granted, that's a comparatively thick 40-spline axle, so big you can't buy
a differential for it; all you'll find are spools. But still, 12,000
ft-lbs over a much larger distance. One mitigating factor is twist -- it's
much less important to prevent the axle from twisting under load, as long
as the deformation is not permanent. If I'm to use a slip yoke, I think
twisting of the motor shaft will be a problem. For the moment I
stubbornly stand by my hunch though, there's got to be a way to do this
with a splined shaft and a slip yoke. (This stubbornness will make it all
the more entertaining when I'm proved wrong.)
FWIW, on the page above Moser suggests to still select based on driveshaft
torque, using the torque split between the wheels to give yourself a large
margin. This may be because the torque is not always shared equally
between the wheels, if one momentarily has more grip than the other.
--chris
>
> On 4/25/05, Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> This is exactly the arrangement I'd hoped to avoid, requiring a heavy
>> telescoping driveshaft from the 4x4 market, which I'd question the
>> safety
>> of at such high RPM. I don't know much about them; maybe it'd work, but
>> it doesn't seem like an optimal solution. The telescoping driveshafts
>> I've
>> seen have a solid inner shaft that appears far smaller than our motor
>> shaft... I wonder how they would fare in this kind of service.
>>
>> If Moser can make a relatively skinny axle that will transmit up to
>> 14,000
>> ft-lbs of torque over a couple of feet from the differential to a wheel,
>> it seems confusing that I should have so much trouble sending a little
>> over a tenth of that a few inches through a thicker shaft. I'd just
>> like
>> to know the right material to do the job. Are there not a variety of
>> steels that would even be overkill (though I'm sure they wouldn't be
>> easy
>> to machine)?
>>
>> I know I have an overly simplistic understanding of what I'm looking
>> for,
>> and I'm not considering all the factors involved. I'll consider this
>> kind
>> of solution, but I'd like to exhaust all possibility of something
>> simpler
>> and lighter, first.
>>
>> --chris
>>
>>
>> Seth Allen said:
>> > I am still looking at the equations. I need to calculate the minor
>> > diameter for a 1.878" spline and take a shot at the stress
>> > concentration factor. The equations so far make the setup look
>> marginal
>> > (depending on use and assumptions) if I assume a 1.625" minor diameter
>> > on that spline in 4140N or 4140 tempered at 1000F. I left the
>> > machinery's handbook at work, so I can't look it up this weekend.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately in a case like this, geometry is what gets you. Better
>> > materials aren't really the fix. The right geometry is.
>> >
>> > The best solution is to leave the end of the motor at 2" diameter and
>> > smooth. Fortunately this is an option. Until the spline numbers came
>> > out marginal, I wasn't going to mention it. I did this on the Super 7
>> > truck and this joint has ~50,000 miles on it. Basically you need a
>> > companion flange and flange yoke. The companion flange you should get
>> > machined. Either from scratch or modify a purchased flange. You bore
>> it
>> > to the appropriate clearance, clean it and bond the companion flange
>> to
>> > the smooth motor shaft. You then bolt the flange yoke to the companion
>> > flange. This is the only thing that holds the front of the drivetrain
>> > to the back of the drivetrain together on those big Kenworth hybrid
>> > trucks. In that case, it is the the most overdesigned joint on the
>> > truck. It is a 2.25" motor shaft, but the torque is similar. The road
>> > is on one side and an 820 ft-lb diesel and two 420 ft-lb induction
>> > motors are on the other side.
>> >
>> > The bonding agent is a special formulation from Loctite made for this
>> > (it isn't threadlocker).
>> >
>> > Done this way, you can use 1144 steel at 1600 ft-lbs or higher. At
>> > least that is what the preliminary math is saying. BTW, these
>> > calculations are for a fatigue application. The assumptions aren't
>> > perfect, and lean towards the conservative, as you are limited in the
>> > number of times you can apply the torque. On the other hand We have
>> > made no effort to estimate the effects of trauma from ordinary use
>> like
>> > hitting a pothole, or wheelspin.
>> >
>> >
>> > BTW-This solution requires a slip joint somewhere.
>> >
>> > I will try to remember the machinery's handbook tomorrow find the
>> minor
>> > diameter of the spline in question.
>> >
>> > Seth
>> >
>> >
>> > On Apr 24, 2005, at 8:38 PM, Christopher Robison wrote:
>> >
>> >> Apparently I'm just not getting it. I don't think I'm seeing the
>> right
>> >> stuff on the Roadranger website.
>> >>
>> >> All I've found that mentions dimensions is here:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.roadranger.com/NASApp/cs/BlobServer?
>> >> blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=Mungo
>> >> Blobs&blobwhere=1082226640691
>> >>
>> >> ...and in the section for "transmission applications" (don't know
>> what
>> >> the
>> >> other sections are for) on page 15 of the pdf, the largest spline for
>> a
>> >> 1410 yoke is 1.616".
>> >>
>> >> Please describe how to navigate to the data you're seeing, or at
>> least
>> >> let
>> >> me know the part number for the 1.878" 1410 yoke. Fortunately, they
>> >> have a
>> >> distributor here in town (Austin Drivetrain) who should be able to
>> get
>> >> it
>> >> for me. BTW -- what is the C/L to end of spline dimension on that?
>> >>
>> >> Assuming I go with that part, is the final question, whether a 2"
>> 4140
>> >> shaft narrowed to a 1.878" 30-tooth spline will withstand 1600ft-lbs
>> of
>> >> torque without twisting? Depending on how close to the edge we are,
>> I
>> >> imagine the yoke plunge distance to allow for may be helpful -- I'll
>> >> try
>> >> to figure that out if it becomes necessary.
>> >>
>> >> I'll ask the driveline folks tomorrow about the U-joint RPM/angle
>> >> relationship.
>> >>
>> >> --chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Seth Allen said:
>> >>> Unfortunately, I don't have a PDF handy of the speeds you can run
>> >>> driveshafts at when at a certain compound angle. That is at my old
>> >>> job.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you want to go with a 1410 or 1350 series U-joint that seems
>> >>> reasonable. I will leave the determination about angle and speed up
>> to
>> >>> you. If I can find a reference then I can help you through the math.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> For an unmultiplied torque driveshaft connected to an electric motor
>> >>> or
>> >>> diesel engine or both I will tell you what I did. It worked for this
>> >>> application, which is pretty similar to yours. We had 1710 series
>> >>> parts
>> >>> as that is what came on the truck so we re-used them, also so they
>> >>> would be a stocked service part for that particular Kenworth.
>> Overkill
>> >>> for the torque we were running, but easier than ordering smaller
>> parts
>> >>> in this case.
>> >>>
>> >>> We used a companion flange connected to a flange yoke to a
>> driveshaft.
>> >>> The companion flange was custom, in that it integrated a B-loc
>> clamp.
>> >>> This isn't necessarily what you want to do.
>> >>>
>> >>> When I browse www.roadranger.com I found a 1410 splined yoke at
>> 1.972"
>> >>> diameter, but it isn't involute, so it migh tbe more costly to get
>> >>> made. A 1.878" involute spline was available in a 1410 series. A
>> >>> 1.750"
>> >>> spline was available in 1350 series.
>> >>>
>> >>> One thing that jumps out is that if a driveshaft is rated for much
>> >>> more
>> >>> torque than you need, but the spline diameters are smaller than
>> your
>> >>> 2" maximum, then barring truly exotic materials (and I would bet
>> long
>> >>> odds against it) the stresses in the shaft will be low enough for
>> this
>> >>> to work.
>> >>>
>> >>> If that turns out to not be the case and we need the whole 2"
>> >>> diameter,
>> >>> then I have a solution that is inexpensive. And it works really
>> well.
>> >>> (Keith hinted at this solution earlier) For that matter, it might be
>> >>> the best solution, but I will start on math for a 1410 involute
>> spline
>> >>> first. Let me know if (when) you find a reference for driveshaft
>> >>> compound angle and speed.
>> >>>
>> >>> Seth
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Apr 24, 2005, at 3:14 PM, Christopher Robison wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Seth Allen said:
>> >>>>> The max rotational speed dictates the angle you can run U-joints
>> at,
>> >>>>> hence the question.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Do you have a breakdown for this? Assuming I'll never go over 5krpm
>> >>>> (and
>> >>>> if I do, it will be an unplanned, probably catastrophic
>> >>>> circumstance),
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> the standard 3 degrees too much?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also, I was looking at U-joint specs online (e.g. the Neapco
>> catalog)
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> noticed that as joint sizes go up, max speed ratings go way down.
>> >>>> Then
>> >>>> again, perhaps the catalog was being excessively pessimistic, as
>> the
>> >>>> torque ratings seemed pretty low as well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At any rate, perhaps CV joints would be a better fit for that
>> reason
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> being designed mainly for FWD half shafts, the assumption is to be
>> >>>> able to
>> >>>> handle the full torque at the wheels...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I can't help feel a bit discouraged though, as I have spent the
>> >>>> entire
>> >>>> morning browsing through manufacturers' and vendors' sites linked
>> >>>> from
>> >>>> www.sema.org, and so far have had no luck finding any sort of
>> >>>> reference to
>> >>>> CV joints used in this way. This may not be the best cross section
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> automotive performance aftermarket, and I certainly haven't even
>> >>>> gotten to
>> >>>> half the sites they link to, but I'm beginning to feel like I'd be
>> >>>> very
>> >>>> much on my own.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I guess I was thinking U-joint and CV joints being steel. I forgot
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> want a CF or other light material driveshaft.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've talked to the folks at Inland Empire (iedls.com) over the
>> phone,
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> they say they can make me an aluminum or carbon fiber shaft set up
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> 1410-series U-joints. The more I think about it, the more I like
>> this
>> >>>> plan. All that remains would be to find the longest and
>> >>>> largest-diameter
>> >>>> spline format I can (up to the diameter of the motor shaft) for a
>> >>>> slip
>> >>>> yoke and give Netgain the go-ahead to start making the motor.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> CV joints would also be a great way to go, theoretically better in
>> >>>> many
>> >>>> ways. Again, the only thing making me hesitant about CV joints is
>> my
>> >>>> complete failure to find any information about using them for
>> >>>> anything
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> FWD or IRS setups. If anyone has a URL, please don't be shy!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wasn't able to find anything on the Roadranger site you mentioned
>> >>>> either; a search for "CV JOINT" or "CV" in their parts search page
>> >>>> yields
>> >>>> zero hits. I'm finding their site really hard to navigate in
>> general;
>> >>>> perhaps there's something I'm missing. On the other hand I can't
>> >>>> help
>> >>>> thinking anything I find there would be far heavier than I want,
>> >>>> anyway.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I haev heard explanations about cryo treatments. Mostly from sales
>> >>>>> types. Never used it. If we get to the point where we are worried
>> >>>>> about
>> >>>>> better material properties then we are too close to the edge ofthe
>> >>>>> design envelope because at this point we don't have the system
>> >>>>> defined
>> >>>>> well enough to understand all the possible loads. In my opinion,
>> at
>> >>>>> least.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You're probably right about this; I brought it up mainly to get
>> >>>> opinions
>> >>>> on it. Unfortunately, I don't have accurate information on the
>> peak
>> >>>> torque the motor will produce, nor do I expect to have such data
>> >>>> before I
>> >>>> complete the truck. I'm suggesting 1600ft-lbs as a planning figure,
>> >>>> hoping
>> >>>> that this will turn out to be a comfortable exaggeration. I won't
>> >>>> get
>> >>>> this much torque at 2000A, but later on with a bypass I'd like to
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> *some* confidence that I can hit the switch without breaking the
>> >>>> driveline.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I understand that other forces contribute to the overall picture,
>> >>>> shock
>> >>>> loads due to potholes and gear play in the differential, etc. Can
>> >>>> these
>> >>>> factors be quantified? (Would knowing the mass of the armature
>> help?)
>> >>>> Are
>> >>>> they even important? What additional information is needed in order
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> get
>> >>>> a better handle on the design envelope?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --chris
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Seth
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Apr 23, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Christopher Robison wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Seth Allen said:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Do you have an estimate of maximum output speed? Or tire size
>> and
>> >>>>>>> top
>> >>>>>>> speed. This is a concern when it comes to driveshaft angle,
>> >>>>>>> especially
>> >>>>>>> for u-joints.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Netgain has tested the motor out to 6000 RPM, but claim that the
>> >>>>>> absolute
>> >>>>>> maximum should be 5000 without serious modifications (kevlar comm
>> >>>>>> wrap,
>> >>>>>> ceramic bearings etc), which seems reasonable for a motor of this
>> >>>>>> size. My
>> >>>>>> choice of rear end and tire diameter will be constrained by this.
>> >>>>>> Perhaps
>> >>>>>> 7000 RPM could be a comfortable planning figure for determining
>> the
>> >>>>>> physical characteristics of the driveline...(?)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> FWIW, I'd like to have a rear end gear setup for racing that
>> allows
>> >>>>>> me
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> hit redline at 110-120mph or so, and another for street driving
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> maxes
>> >>>>>> out at around 75mph for higher RPMs and better efficiency (with
>> the
>> >>>>>> side
>> >>>>>> effect of harder launches). I've got the formulas in a
>> spreadsheet,
>> >>>>>> but of
>> >>>>>> course the ratios I choose will depend on the wheels and tires I
>> >>>>>> end
>> >>>>>> up
>> >>>>>> with.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Some platings affect the fatigue strength. In general, I
>> wouldn't
>> >>>>>>> do a
>> >>>>>>> plating. There should be grease most any place there will be
>> >>>>>>> splines,
>> >>>>>>> so I don't think there is a reason to plate. And all the other
>> >>>>>>> drivetrain parts will likely be steel or painted steel, wo why
>> be
>> >>>>>>> different.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Or aluminum, or carbon fiber. :o) At any rate, it doesn't seem
>> >>>>>> necessary. One process I might be interested in is
>> cryo-hardening;
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> understand it is helpful in increasing abrasion resistance which
>> >>>>>> might
>> >>>>>> be
>> >>>>>> helpful for the splines, and has some strengthening aspects as
>> well
>> >>>>>> (though the extent of this is debated). Do you have any
>> >>>>>> information
>> >>>>>> or
>> >>>>>> experience with this?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --chris
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Seth
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2005, at 2:21 AM, Christopher Robison wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Seth Allen said:
>> >>>>>>>>> Ok, before I start, I will make a few assumptions and such:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 1: You don't want to greatly increase cost, so a material that
>> >>>>>>>>> doesn't
>> >>>>>>>>> need a rough machining, heat treat and grind to size is
>> >>>>>>>>> desirable
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I agree with this (I've got plenty of other parts of the truck
>> >>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>>> also demanding my money), though I'm not sure even what kind of
>> >>>>>>>> neighborhood to shoot for. Am I looking at a thousand bucks no
>> >>>>>>>> matter
>> >>>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>>> I do, or am I just trying to save a hundred or so? I've
>> already
>> >>>>>>>> spent
>> >>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>> few grand; a couple hundred well-placed dollars aren't so much
>> of
>> >>>>>>>> an
>> >>>>>>>> issue, but adding half the cost of the motor would be
>> difficult.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 2: You need some plunge on the output
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this means. Are you referring to the need for
>> a
>> >>>>>>>> slip
>> >>>>>>>> yoke, or sliding element somewhere along the driveline? If so,
>> >>>>>>>> yes
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> I am
>> >>>>>>>> not willing to lock down the rear end (at least not
>> >>>>>>>> permanently); I
>> >>>>>>>> need
>> >>>>>>>> to allow for some suspension travel.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 3: a standard interface is nice
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I have bought from Inland Empire in the past; they make a wide
>> >>>>>>>> variety
>> >>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>> slip yokes. In general though, yes, standard == good.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 4: you want it sized for fatigue life at peak torque (many
>> >>>>>>>>> dragstrip
>> >>>>>>>>> runs)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Agreed. The motor will be heavy and expensive to ship, making
>> the
>> >>>>>>>> cost
>> >>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>> replacing the shaft pretty high, if I'm to have Netgain doing
>> it.
>> >>>>>>>> Warfield
>> >>>>>>>> has a location in Dallas I'm told, but they don't work on the
>> >>>>>>>> Warps.
>> >>>>>>>> All
>> >>>>>>>> in all, I'd like the shaft to last. :o) I'm willing to spend
>> a
>> >>>>>>>> little
>> >>>>>>>> more now to help with this.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 5: you will not be getting it plated
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I can't say without more information. What would be the benefit
>> >>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>> plating, and with what material? Is it expensive? Would it be
>> >>>>>>>> worth
>> >>>>>>>> it? If
>> >>>>>>>> you're talking about aesthetics (chrome plating or whatever),
>> >>>>>>>> then
>> >>>>>>>> no.
>> >>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>> just don't want it rusting. :o)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> If all this is right, then a suggestion for a steel might be a
>> >>>>>>>>> pre-hardened AISI 4140 which is fairly common and fairly easy
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>> machine. It won't be fully hard, but you won't have to do the
>> >>>>>>>>> heat
>> >>>>>>>>> treat and grind to size.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I will make a note of this -- thank you!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> As for an output. I have done standard yokes with slip joint
>> >>>>>>>>> driveshafts for trucks. Not sexy, but they work. But your
>> torque
>> >>>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> actually quite low if this is direct drive to the rear diff.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Compared to the potential if I had a transmission, yes, the
>> >>>>>>>> torque
>> >>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>> pretty low. It seemed high to me, but that was during my search
>> >>>>>>>> for a
>> >>>>>>>> suitable manual transmission. On the other hand, the existing
>> >>>>>>>> driveshaft
>> >>>>>>>> on my truck probably doesn't even see a third as much torque,
>> >>>>>>>> flooring
>> >>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>> in first gear. The input shaft on my transmission is only rated
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> 175
>> >>>>>>>> ft-lbs; I don't have the ratios handy but output torque can't
>> be
>> >>>>>>>> too
>> >>>>>>>> spectacular. In fact, in 1st I guess I probably get less peak
>> >>>>>>>> torque
>> >>>>>>>> at
>> >>>>>>>> the *wheels* today than I'll eventually get out of this motor.
>> In
>> >>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>> sense, it's not so bad. :o)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> A CV joint
>> >>>>>>>>> can easily handle this torque and requires no alignment of the
>> >>>>>>>>> yokes
>> >>>>>>>>> or
>> >>>>>>>>> concern over driveshaft angle. A CV flange on the output of
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> motor
>> >>>>>>>>> with whay would normally be an IRS halfshaft could work quite
>> >>>>>>>>> well.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I am not quite familiar with the setup you're referring to. Is
>> it
>> >>>>>>>> possible
>> >>>>>>>> to get something like this that is long enough, and
>> lightweight?
>> >>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>> been assuming the need for a traditional driveshaft and a
>> >>>>>>>> slip-yoke
>> >>>>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> motor, in part because of the arrangement of the motor and
>> >>>>>>>> differential.
>> >>>>>>>> I'm planning on putting the motor under the passenger
>> >>>>>>>> compartment,
>> >>>>>>>> between
>> >>>>>>>> the seats, where the transmission is now. I would put it
>> further
>> >>>>>>>> back,
>> >>>>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>> I'd like to put battery boxes between the frame rails. I've
>> been
>> >>>>>>>> planning
>> >>>>>>>> on using a large diameter aluminum or carbon fiber shaft
>> between
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> battery boxes to reduce spinning mass. Can I have this same
>> >>>>>>>> arrangement
>> >>>>>>>> with CV joints?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> When you speak of CV joints, I'm imagining the three rollers at
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> end of
>> >>>>>>>> a shaft which fits in a cup with three deep corresponding
>> >>>>>>>> grooves,
>> >>>>>>>> allowing both the CV torque transfer as well as a small amount
>> of
>> >>>>>>>> sliding
>> >>>>>>>> motion. Is this the sort of thing you're referring to?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> It
>> >>>>>>>>> is what I would do, but some people really refer U-joints.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> At this point, I don't think I have enough knowledge to have a
>> >>>>>>>> valid
>> >>>>>>>> preference. I have come to certain conclusions based on what
>> I've
>> >>>>>>>> learned
>> >>>>>>>> so far, but of course nothing is really concluded until I start
>> >>>>>>>> actually
>> >>>>>>>> acquiring the parts. Until then, the more I can learn, the
>> >>>>>>>> better.
>> >>>>>>>> I'm
>> >>>>>>>> OK
>> >>>>>>>> with CV joints (actually, I like the idea of the smooth torque
>> >>>>>>>> transfer,
>> >>>>>>>> and not having to worry about matching angles and such), I just
>> >>>>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>>>> know
>> >>>>>>>> what else about my driveline plans would have to change.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> If that is
>> >>>>>>>>> the case, then at www.roadranger.com there are loads of
>> U-joint
>> >>>>>>>>> specs
>> >>>>>>>>> there. ANd they will specify the spline options. Let me know
>> >>>>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>>>> preference is (CV joint or U-joint) and we can wade through
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> options
>> >>>>>>>>> and once a spline is found, see if it will work. Your torque
>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> so
>> >>>>>>>>> low
>> >>>>>>>>> that with half-hard 4140 and an easily cut involute spline on
>> a
>> >>>>>>>>> ~2"
>> >>>>>>>>> diameter that I think there will be no problem with fatigue
>> >>>>>>>>> life,
>> >>>>>>>>> even
>> >>>>>>>>> after effects like corrosion are figured in.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> What are the corrosion properties of 4140? What kind of
>> >>>>>>>> degradation
>> >>>>>>>> can I
>> >>>>>>>> expect, mechanically and aesthetically, assuming this will be
>> >>>>>>>> subjected to
>> >>>>>>>> water and road grime? For the most part though, this sounds
>> like
>> >>>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>>> I'm
>> >>>>>>>> looking for. Can we say that 1144 is out of the picture? I
>> >>>>>>>> understand
>> >>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>> responds well to heat treating, though I don't know if this
>> will
>> >>>>>>>> give
>> >>>>>>>> me
>> >>>>>>>> what I want.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I will see what info I can dig up on CV joints used in this
>> >>>>>>>> application.
>> >>>>>>>> Although I'm hesitant about using techniques that aren't
>> popular
>> >>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>> racing, I realize the operating parameters here are a bit
>> >>>>>>>> different
>> >>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>> may call for an unusual solution. Mainly, if we can plan a
>> >>>>>>>> driveline
>> >>>>>>>> that's lightweight, can span from the cab to the differential,
>> >>>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>>> tolerate the torque and the RPM (I'll be running a 5.0-5.3 or
>> so
>> >>>>>>>> rear
>> >>>>>>>> end
>> >>>>>>>> ratio, not quite sure yet), then I won't have much rational
>> cause
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>> disagree.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --chris
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt Holthausen wrote:
> There are two wheels
> connected to the differential, so isn't the torque that the axles have
> to handle cut in half? This would help the smaller size make (more)
> sense,
This page has some good info:
http://www.moserengineering.com/moser_interior/axletech.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I have yet to put together the rear
> end for this truck, so I'll be thinking about these issues soon.
Are you going to use a 9", 12-bolt, or Dana 60?
> there's got to be a way to do this
> with a splined shaft and a slip yoke.
How long will the motor shaft be?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts said:
> Christopher Robison wrote:
>
>> I have yet to put together the rear
>> end for this truck, so I'll be thinking about these issues soon.
>
> Are you going to use a 9", 12-bolt, or Dana 60?
9" is the current plan. Strange nodular case (those radial fins look so
cool), 35 spline axles and either an ARB or a Detroit most likely. As
I've mentioned, the thing that's stalling me here is that I have never cut
an axle housing before, and I'm not sure I know what I'm doing.
>
>> there's got to be a way to do this
>> with a splined shaft and a slip yoke.
>
> How long will the motor shaft be?
If Seth is right, not very long at all. If I can do this like I want to
though, then it should extend about 6 or 7 inches or so, I figure. This
will be dictated in part by the slip yoke. At the moment, the challenge
seems to be to find a slip yoke with a large enough internal spline.
--chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, it's official I'm putting my Electric Dragster up for sale. I would
hope that someone out there will take this car to the next level.
When we originally designed and built the car it was set up to take 1,000 to
1500 horse power
I think the most we ever developed was around 500 to 700 and that was with
the best lead acid battery available at the time, this car ran consistently in
the 9's without breaking any parts other than a few popped batteries. There
are batteries on the horizon now that could double or triple the horse power
we were making then. The car is ready to go and I'm running out of gas,
please check out the web site.
_http://www.ghiamonster.com/ludiker/dragster.html_
(http://www.ghiamonster.com/ludiker/dragster.html)
Thanks
Jim Ludiker.........the second quickest electric dragster in the world,
wanting to be the #1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a note. If you use an IRS (Such as Jag, Vette or T-Bird) then you
wouldn't need a slip joint. A solid drive shaft, with a little interference
angle built in.to the u-joints to keep them lubed.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
Ryan Stotts said:
Christopher Robison wrote:
I have yet to put together the rear
end for this truck, so I'll be thinking about these issues soon.
Are you going to use a 9", 12-bolt, or Dana 60?
9" is the current plan. Strange nodular case (those radial fins look so
cool), 35 spline axles and either an ARB or a Detroit most likely. As
I've mentioned, the thing that's stalling me here is that I have never cut
an axle housing before, and I'm not sure I know what I'm doing.
there's got to be a way to do this
with a splined shaft and a slip yoke.
How long will the motor shaft be?
If Seth is right, not very long at all. If I can do this like I want to
though, then it should extend about 6 or 7 inches or so, I figure. This
will be dictated in part by the slip yoke. At the moment, the challenge
seems to be to find a slip yoke with a large enough internal spline.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler wrote:
...
Li-Poly plus AC (I assume you've looked through Victor's site
www.metricmind.com or the Electric Imp site www.proev.com ) is going to
cost a large chunk of money - probably about double what the Lotus 7 kit
costs.
(Victor, were you selling 3.7V Kokams for about US$5 per Ah?)
I don't deal with Kokam's LiPs directly, if one wants to purchase
them, they should contact Kokam, pay to them, and the battery will be
shipped to them direcly from Korea. BTW, I don't make a dime on this.
Expect the cost to be ~$6/Ah, this is last quote I had year ago.
May be Kokam changed their prices, I haven't asked since then.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen wrote:
...
I still think the NLG4 series chargers were one of (if
not the) best charger of their day for a flexible one. Which should make
the NLG 5 series really nice. Too bad they don't go lower in voltage.
Seth
I think they do (at reduced power), and I will find out how low.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The cost with volume can be *afforded* to be reduced by a manufacturer,
but it is not a guarantee it will happen. Why lower the cost if the
customers buying already? It is all supply/demand.
Philippe already mentioned SAFT NiCds produced in millions but the
price stay high and no sign of reduction so far.
Victor
Sam Uzi wrote:
the same but replacing the agm's 6 times might make some feel that Li are
better ( those who don't like changing batteries) , there is also the weight
factor , what would it be worth to have a pack that was 1/2 the weight but 2
times that ahs .
and the price for Li will drop as production scales up with demand
I haven't worked the numbers, but I'd be willing to guess that if Li batts
were as prevelant as PbAs are now, the cost factor for Li (benefiting from
large-scale production's per-unit cost reduction) would come out at least
as good as PbA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The tapered bushings that we use have the tapped removal holes in the part
of the bushing that we machine off. We remove this part of the bushing
because there's no space for it, or reason in our applications. As part of
my quality control procedure, I fasten the hub and bushing to a keyed 1
1/8" shaft that is a duplicate of the motor shaft. It is fully locked to
the shaft, as it will be when it's put to use. To remove the assembly from
my test fixture, I take out the 10-24 pull-in cap screws, substitute two
cap screws that are about 1/2" longer than the pull-in screws, and rap on
them with a brass hammer to break the taper. This works every time, but
this is a new installation and has only been on the shaft a few minutes.
I've had motors in the shop that have been in service for a while that
needed to have the hub/bushing pulled for some reason, and this technique
sometimes doesn't work. All of my hubs are designed with at least a 3/4"
hole in the center to accommodate a gear puller. Put the screw drive of
the gear puller through the hole and put the arms on the flange of the
hub. Tighten the screw drive against the motor shaft as tight as you can
get it with a 1/2" drive breaker bar. This won't damage either the end of
the motor shaft or the flange of the hub. With everything nice and tight,
and all of the pull-in screws removed from the hub, give the end of the
puller a sharp blow with a large hammer. This should break the taper, and
the hub should separate from the bushing.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think this would be pretty strange in the back of an S-10, but cool if
it could work. I've seen the half-shafts for older vettes, and they look
like short tubular driveshafts, using U-joints instead of CV joints. Is
there any slip in the system at all, or are the wheels simply allowed to
move together and apart as the suspension travels?
More importantly, is there any mechanical reason why IRS would not be as
desireable on the strip? I know it's a liability with the off-road
crowd, conversions to a solid rear axle are a fairly popular upgrade.
Also, what differential housings would be available for an independent
rear? Is it possible to cut a housing for a solid axle (eg. a Ford 9")
short enough to use it this way? Has anyone done anything like that?
--chris
Dave said:
> Just a note. If you use an IRS (Such as Jag, Vette or T-Bird) then you
> wouldn't need a slip joint. A solid drive shaft, with a little
> interference
> angle built in.to the u-joints to keep them lubed.
>
> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
> Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
> - Harold S.
> Hulbert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline
>
>
>> Ryan Stotts said:
>>> Christopher Robison wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have yet to put together the rear
>>>> end for this truck, so I'll be thinking about these issues soon.
>>>
>>> Are you going to use a 9", 12-bolt, or Dana 60?
>>
>> 9" is the current plan. Strange nodular case (those radial fins look so
>> cool), 35 spline axles and either an ARB or a Detroit most likely. As
>> I've mentioned, the thing that's stalling me here is that I have never
>> cut
>> an axle housing before, and I'm not sure I know what I'm doing.
>>
>>>
>>>> there's got to be a way to do this
>>>> with a splined shaft and a slip yoke.
>>>
>>> How long will the motor shaft be?
>>
>> If Seth is right, not very long at all. If I can do this like I want to
>> though, then it should extend about 6 or 7 inches or so, I figure. This
>> will be dictated in part by the slip yoke. At the moment, the challenge
>> seems to be to find a slip yoke with a large enough internal spline.
>>
>> --chris
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The quote i had at EVS21 was about $1,4/Ah for low quantities.
I have $1/Ah from other company (10Ah lipoly cells) but i'm still figuring
the cell quality (lots of questions not enought good answer for the moment)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Value of electric 7 EV?
> Mark Fowler wrote:
> ...
> >
> > Li-Poly plus AC (I assume you've looked through Victor's site
> > www.metricmind.com or the Electric Imp site www.proev.com ) is going to
> > cost a large chunk of money - probably about double what the Lotus 7 kit
> > costs.
> > (Victor, were you selling 3.7V Kokams for about US$5 per Ah?)
>
> I don't deal with Kokam's LiPs directly, if one wants to purchase
> them, they should contact Kokam, pay to them, and the battery will be
> shipped to them direcly from Korea. BTW, I don't make a dime on this.
>
> Expect the cost to be ~$6/Ah, this is last quote I had year ago.
> May be Kokam changed their prices, I haven't asked since then.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Wanted to mention if you have access to the New York Times paper, the Sunday
edition, you know that five lb 5 bux edition, when read, if enough paper to
mask up your EV for a paintjob! Within, on the FIRST page, far left is a good
story on the Acela woes, or why we arent running them anymore. A really well
done story, well, after all it IS the Times<g>! Pointing out the many problems
with the designing and building of the train. Reads sorta like our converting
cars to EV's. One of the BIG problems pointed out was the US version of the
French TGV, as Acela was hoped to be, was that it came in a tad overweight,
like twice the weight! But it can still GO up to 170mph, but in it's "flight"
can only use speeds of this sort, for 18 miles of the route! The Tad overweight
comes from it being built to rather ridgid US RR safety standards. After
logging on to Yahoo/News this AM, Mon. the reasoning of the FRA became
grindingly apparent. From Japan came horific images of a electric commuter job
that derailed, they think from excessive speed. Cars crushed against a
BUILDING! Those cars let their riders down, big time, NO crash protection. One
of them , like a aluninun soda , not a stronger steel can, CRUSHED against a
building. Gees! One of ours would have leveled the building, and most of the
riders woulda walked away, ready to write irate letters to Amtrak, for being
later than usual! Of course the loss of life coulda been greater having
torpedoed the building down?! Jury still out on this one. Japanese trains are
about half ours in weight, as are most European stuff. Most Japanese RR's are
the old British Colonial track gage of 3ft 6in, so, of course they are gunna be
lighter. Interestingly enough the Bullet Train, with a perfect safety record ,
over 40 years!!! Hurrah! Japan National Railway!!I tip my hat to you folks as a
RR guy, myself!Is Standard gage as here and mosta Europe. Gees ! The Japan RR
started with a blank sheet of paper, they COULD have gone any gage they wanted.
Ya woulda thought they would have gone with the nice wide 5 foot gage the
Russians and BART , among others,enjoy?! A bit more stable? The Russians had
other motives, invasion by rail, and Standard gage trains would have "Fallen
in" early on, like at the border! Trapped in their tracks, if you will. China,
being more conservitive, went with Standard Gage as they early on bought stuff
from USA, They until only a few years ago still built Steam Lokies from good
old proven 1918 USRA designs. They WORK! Great copies of ALL the hardware,
Westinghouse brake parts still bolt on! I'm sure if you want just one or a
fleet, the lokie builders of China can build you one. A few Tourist operaters
did buy NOS Steamers for their trains. Nothing Chinese about them, big ,sooty
,black ,behemoths, that will bring out steam fans from EVerywhere. EVen from an
electric fan, they do evoke a sort of nostalgic history, laying awake nights
listening to the I think-I-can chant as they marched across eastern PA where I
grew up, as well as the mournful Blasts of the Pennsy's Electric locos,
foghorns in the night. Well, later grew up to actually get to run a few of
those before they got away, a boyhood dream forfilled. The magic of electric
power, the wires above, that couuld neither push nor shove. The trolley cars in
Philly, that would glide up ,not care if they were empty of full, EVerybody
piled in and off you went! Magic! In my deformative years! Still trying to keep
the boyhood magic alive with EV's of all sorts. Well, I do miss my Acela
flights, but we are pinch hitting with lessor 125mpg AEM-7's ans HHP-8's for
now, after all the 150 mph trak passes quickly @ 125. The whole thing was done
bass ackwards, as the RR was never rebuilt, I mean Realigned by taking out slow
order curves, making 120 MPH curves from, say 45 mph ones, you laugh? There are
SEVERAL, I know JUST where, to keep everybody alive, and the train
right-side-up, THAT's what we are, as train drivers, Engineers, are supposed to
know. Oh we have had our monents, a newbee Engineer, took a 30 mph curve at
Boston Back Bay station at 79MPH, oh, not ,on purpose, he like the poor guy in
Japan, just forgot, where he was, daydreeming, who knows. He just didn't get on
the brake back when you go by the old Icehouse about a mile back up the track.
A landmark we use, to this day, although the automatic train control won't let
you do THAT again. Besides ,it was getting old, in 1942 a steam train bought
the farm there, same thing ,excessive speed! Before the Boston wreck, it was
wry humor as to WHO was gunna forget to brake soon enough Fortunately nobody
was seriously injured in the spectacular pileup. Our, Amtrak's luck ran out, by
not our means at Mobile Bay, where a lost towboat knocked the bridge out of
alignment, Next train along the Sunset Limited, took the bridge down, and
dumped every car in the river. Trains are lousy boats, even submarines! Took
days to dig them out of 30 foot depth river. How the hell can you plan THAT out
of your day. We take " Bridge Strikes" very seriously, usually it's a bit more
comical for us, but not the guy with a flying bridge cruiser, on a trailer,
that didn't fit under a 11foot clearence bridge, or a " Convertable 18 wheeler,
peeled back like a sardeen can. I always give a heads up on the right on the
train radio, as we inch by. So EVerybody can enjoy the carnage<g>! The bridges
are well signed the guy gets a ticket, as well as having to explain WHY the
customer's new boat is a one level or just kindling wood! Those old black iron
or steel gerder bridges, been there since the Teddy Roosevelt Adm. aint going
anywhere!
Another delemma with our RR here, many of our bridges should be given to
the Smithsonian, as a classic art form. They hafta be able to OPEN to get the
weekend admirals in an' out. It is amazing how much political clout they have,
though! If the bridge doesn't open NOW, when he gets there, there is hell to
pay, with the Coast Guard, as THEY are in on this. I have sat, 15 to 30 min
waiting for the damn bridge to close, cooling my wheels as hundreds of
hostages, I mean PASSENGERS are told the reason for the delay. Now in the hot
summer months, old steel expands, resulting in a amusing bridge can't CLOSE
mode. Or how we can lose hours on the Shoreline. Calling in the local Fire Dept
to hose things down has helped, sometimes. Actually to see the bridge lifting
machinery is a trip back in time, hugh bull gears and pinions, all driven by a
rediculously small, say, 100 hp motor, so nicely balanced they are. The
origional Steam engines that did this when they were new are gone, though!
Sigh! So when something breaks it's off to a foundry or shop comfortable with
19th century machinery, where cast iron and enginuity took care of many
problems. Sort of like the guy that made my adapter plate, for the Rabbit. HE
was working on a Stanley Steamer boiler grate when I walked in!! Breathing a
sigh of comfort and relief, I just KNEW I was in the right place.
Back to the story. Acela's brake problems go back to the THREE sets of
Roters on each car axle, We got brakes! Ya gotta believe! I can stop on a dime
and give ya 9 sense change!Also, the regen, that puts juice back in the
overhead. But ya hafta have enough rotor discs to fill in IF the regen doesn't
work, to take over, if EVerything electric goes on the fritz. The good old
Westinghouse, father of the Air Brake, system. Mr Westinghouse, George, doesn't
really get his just do. Before air brakes a brakeman had to run along the TOP
of the train in all weather, tightning down the handbrakes, by, duh! HAND. at
the engineers whistle call! Stopping was rather iffy, even in ideal conditions!
In 1869 George fitted a air brake setup on a Pennsy test train, off they went,
officials aboard. They came to a grade crossing with a buggy stuck upon. George
reached for the air brake valve, train sighed to a stop, just short of the
buggy! The Pennsy guyz were impressed big time and Geo. got tons of orders. I
think Westinghouse is STILL in Wilmerding PA, where it all started. But it took
federal LAW to get ALL the RR's to go air brake. See why I think a few laws
are, a good thing, you would STILL be driving with one chamber master cylinders
in cars, today, had the feds not mandated them, to be two so you would have
half your brakes in a failure mode.Geo. redesigned HIS system for failure
mode,in 1870 , and the train brakes lock up and you aint going ANYWHERE til you
find and fix the problem, usually, say the 67th car in a 140 car freight, in a
blizzard, wind chill 8 below<g>! Usually a broken rubber brake hose, you
schleppe back from the lokie with a hose and wrench to change it.
A few laws with teeth and you could be shopping GM's new EV offerings a
EV-2 ,4 seater, a wagon, maybe? That" GM Mark of Excellence" would really mean
something. Sigh. " Remember Body by Fisher" Well THAT dates me I guess?But we
all know what went wrong here. no need to dwell on that.
Mr. Westinghouse good judgement carried on, when he bought up Mr Nicola
Tesla's AC patents putting Westinghouse Electric light years ahead of the pack
in the 90's. And yes, Westinghouse built fine E locos, sharing in the GG-1
order for the Pennsy in the 30's Google GG-1 for a fun read. Our American
Classic 240 ton glamour gal! It was Westinghouse Electric that did the
pioneering 11000 25hz ac system for the New Haven RR in 1907. Pennsy sniffed
about, liked it, took it to it's corporate heart, and did NYC to Washington,
and a lotta surburban lines around Philly in 25hz. it still survives to this
day!! I have never gotten a reasonable explanation WHY. My reasoning as Metro
North, heir to the origional AC converted the old catenery to 60 [EMAIL
PROTECTED] volts, closed the antique power plant at Cos Cob, CT in the 80's ,
and bought the power from the locals. NOW when the power go out were out ,too!!
Hey, Lee Hart, electrical engineer, is there a really GOOD argument for 25hz,
today?? I know Amtrak has motor alternater substations rotery converters to
MAKE 25hz, seems a lot of trouble, to me? The new stuff from NH to Bos is all a
more mod 25k 25hz, put in 5 years ago. Works great! More power than I can EVer
use with mere Acela trains.Nowadaze we should be wheeling freight with this
nice clean power IMHO.
OK I've railed enough for now, Just the News EVents of the last few daze
brougt it on. OK back to rotery chopper controllers, an' other cool stuff.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
