EV Digest 4353
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Plasma Boy Racing Update
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) More, RE: Static buildup on EVs
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: cruise control?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: GP3300 Ultimate Racing Battery?
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Two motors, Two controllers Single POT?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Oxgen/propane brazing - a useful hint
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Static buildup on EVs
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: GP3300 Ultimate Racing Battery?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Power Electronics Magazine EV's-fuel cell article
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: cruise control?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: cruise control?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Bans on Motorized Scooters Increasing - My apology
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Hypothetical charger question
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OT: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: "eBay hype" or innovation?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: cruise control?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Vas: Re: Static buildup on EVs
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: OT: Yahoo archive, was: Re: Charger schematic
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Jeep EV: PFC timer position
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) PEV advocacy lobby group to counter scooter bans
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Hypothetical charger question
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Oxgen/propane brazing - a useful hint
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re:1998 Ford EV Ranger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Charger schematic
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Jeep EV: PFC timer position
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) My project and question
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Philip Marino wrote:
> You may have discussed this earlier ( if you did, I missed it), but how do
> you support this longer Siamese motor shaft?
Yes, it was discussed. There's a center bearing.
> If you use two bearings ( and, it seems to me, using three would have its
> own problems) , is the longer shaft stiff enough to prevent lateral
> resonances (shaft whirl) at high motor speeds? The important thing is
> probably the shaft diameter in the area between the two armatures.
Good thinking on your part. I too, was very concerned about this, and it's why
I insisted
on a center bearing. The shaft is made from a very high strength stainless
steel, so it's
quite rigid and 'may' have been OK without the center bearing, but I erred on
the side of
caution. Yes, it's a pain to do the center bearing along with the center
housing coupler
and pressed-on fan, but Jim's pretty good at tough motor work.
> Also, do you have any pictures of the motor and/or shaft that you could
> post?
>
I do. The problem, is I don't yet have a dedicated web page up for my racing
stuff, though
I'm looking for help in doing this.
I have some fun pictures of the Dutchman and his wife, myself, and my wife,
having
breakfast together with the raw shaft (not yet splined at that point) laying
between us on
the breakfast table. I also have the next day pictures of Jim Husted of Hi
Torque
Electric, holding the fully splined shaft, as well as pictures of the shaft
laying next to
the armatures that will be pressed onto it. I also have great pictures of the
BIG 13"
motor, from it's dirt covered crude beginnings after we dug it out of a motor
bone yard,
to the stages of rebuild it's been going through. Whenever Jim lays his hands
on an
electric motor, it always comes out to perfection, so it will be fun for
everyone to see
this project from start to finish...the guy is an artisan!
Together with Jim's knowledge and skills on DC motor rebuilding and my racing
experience
of knowing what little tricks it takes to make a motor survive drag track
torture and
perform well, the two of us with help from Father Time and input from Rich
Rudman, are
making a couple of trick DC motors....a long skinny dual armature purple one
weighing
about 200 lbs. and with an estimated 540 ft, lbs. and about 300-350 hp
(400+kw), and a big
fat yellow one with variable motorized brush timing weighing about 370 lbs. and
capable of
an estimated 1200 ft. lbs. and maybe 400 hp ( 435+kw) if we only draw 2000 amps.
If we go to a controller bypass with Purple Phaze and pull 2500 amps from the
29 Orbitals,
we get 560 kw and even more hp.
The above figures are estimates right now, the proof of power will be at the
track and on
the dyno, both of which will be happening in the near future.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just FYI regarding responses so far:
1) The ride height is exactly the same as it was as
an ICE.
2) I have not changed to polyester clothing since I
started driving my EV. (God willing, it will be
another 20-30 years, as I'm only 40 now). Nor have I
changed seats, as the $$ goes into the drivetrain, not
so much the interior.
Thanks, though! (;-p
--- Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With static electric shocks also consider the
> material that your clothes
> and the seats are made out of.
>
> My parents' car had plush velour upholstered seats
> and I was constantly
> zapping myself when getting out.
>
> I learnt to hold on to a metal part of the door or
> frame when I first
> put my foot down on the ground - it still meant that
> the discharge went
> through me, but it didn't zap anywhere near as much.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David C. Navas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2005 5:08 AM
> To: Bob Bath
> Subject: Re: Static buildup on EVs
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bob Bath
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just curious, all;
> > As an ICE, my Civic would shock me in certain
> times
> [...]
> > Now as an EV, I get shocked the WHOLE year.
>
> My Sentra does this to me 100% of the time as an
> ICE.
> I've gotten used to using clothed parts of my body
> to close
> doors. It's one of my reasons for wanting to
> convert a Saturn.
>
> Anyway, my understanding is that this is due to the
> type of
> tires you are using. Not aware of the details, but
> perhaps
> this will point you in the right direction.
>
> -Dave
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I made one in the 90's for Lawson Huntley with a Mot uP but in an EV it's
probably not necessary. The battery scanner I made is far more useful, just
found a bad cell on Friday.
have a nice day, mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:34 PM
Subject: cruise control?
> Is there any cruise control on EV's?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- D B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > According to Quiet Flyer magazine, this company now produces GP
> > 3700
> > cells with even more capacity. Steve Neu, of Neumotors.com, did a
> > test
> > on them last month. He also mentioned he used them for short bursts
> > of
> > power above 200 amps. Where did you find any graphs on these
> > batteries?
> Thanks for that data point. 200 Amps, that is hard to believe! If
> that is the peak power point which occurs at 1/2 voltage: 200A * 0.6
> V / 65 g = 1.8 kW/kg!
The highest power lithium currently available that I'm aware of are
the EnerDel's at around 3kw/kg. They lose some of that power when
not fully charged. http://www.enerdel.com/p_detail.html
You can buy them now, but they aren't cheap. With an order above
10,000 units, pricing becomes more reasonable. Let me know if
anyone else wants them.... Of course, you still need to stack and
pack them, and while the company makes higher voltage packs, they're
all extremely current limited :( I would probably go with the
EP rather than the P version, as it seems a better tradeoff
between power and energy density. YMMV
They do have very nice cycle life....
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>snip>Try shifting into a higher gear or field weakening turbo switch for more
>high end power.
Thanks I'll look into field weakening. Upshifting actually does no good because
my Cursit controller is waay to underpowered for a pickup truck but that is
what it came with. A raptor 600 works sooo much better in my Blazer then the
Cursit it replaced. With my limited budget I think I'll be gentle on the Cursit
and live with it spending the month on my cabinscooter which the money helps
alot more.
>snip>S/P Series/Paralel
Based on yours a a few other comments I think I'm going to go with a single
Sevcon on the dual eteks and see how it does. Once I get it running around the
parking lot I'll know if I need another controller or S/P or ?!? Gotta go
hunting contactors though because the online stores I've checked they aren't
that much cheaper then a second controller.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, there's a popular little Bernzomatic torch you can buy at Home
Depot that uses small propane and oxygen cylinders. I find it's relatively
easy to light with just a spark lighter, and it works pretty much just
like an acetylene torch.
I generally get much better results though, replacing the propane with
MAPP gas. MAPP was basically formulated to give as high a combustion
temperature as possible, in a gas you can compress beyond 15 psi without
spontaneous detonation (a la acetylene). No need for the porous matrix or
acetone, you can also get cheap disposable MAPP gas cylinders at Home
Depot. The fitting is the same as the standard small-bottle propane
fitting.
I haven't had so much luck welding big stuff with the little torch (I
probably won't be using it for my EV), but it does braze really well.
--chris
Stu and Jan said:
> When brazing a few days ago, I ran out of acetylene. I hooked up my BBQ
> tank
> and tried to continue. I found that it was very, very difficult to get
> the
> torch lit and to do anything useful because the flame kept going out.
>
>
>
> I went to the Web and I found that there is a propane torch tip that is
> available that keeps a propane flame going.
>
>
>
> Then I found a reference about using an unmodified acetylene tip with a
> special lighting method.
>
>
>
> The idea is to hold the tip against a piece of scrap steel. Ignite the
> escaping propane. Add oxygen, and pull the tip back at an angle as the
> flame gets hotter. When the brightest metal heat color is reached, away
> you
> go. There was some discussion about what the correct angle should be.
>
>
>
> The first piece of steel scrap that I found was a cut off bicycle bottom
> bracket with a stubby 1" tube section. It stood up by itself and thus
> became a self-made lighting tool.
>
>
>
> On my very first try, I placed the tip against the vertical tube, lit the
> propane, added oxygen, pulled the tip back, adjusted the mixture, and
> went
> on my merry way brazing without a hitch. The curvature of the tubing did
> not require any special angle. It was pure luck. In fact, I like the
> brazing results better than Oxy/Acetylene. Not only is propane cheaper
> than
> acetylene, it is much more convenient to buy.
>
>
>
> I am amazed how such a simple hint changed my way of thinking and I am
> passing it on should anyone ever need to use it.
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or the "fancy" redneck version:
A piece of dangling chain to ground...
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:48:49 -0700
> To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Static buildup on EVs
>
>> You might try an anti-static strap. It attaches to the chassis at the rear,
>> and hangs down far enough to contact the roadway.
>>
>
> ...or the (you may be a) Redneck version: a piece of scrap wire looped under a
> bolt way under the car at one end and dangling on the ground at the other...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for that data point. Looks like I have to take back my post
the GP3300 is the ultimate racing battery! Who would have thought
these other chemistries would be stomping lead in both the range and
power departments?
I looked at the Hawker web page, and calculated their D cell lead
acid batteries were about 1.1 kW/kg, about double that of Orbitals.
Full retail they would also cost, per pound, about 5 to 7 times what
an Orbital would cost.
Economic reality for most of us is that the best metric is kW/kg/$ --
I'd think the Orbitals would win that one hands down.
--- "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The highest power lithium currently available that I'm aware of are
>
> the EnerDel's at around 3kw/kg. They lose some of that power when
> not fully charged. http://www.enerdel.com/p_detail.html
> You can buy them now, but they aren't cheap. With an order above
> 10,000 units, pricing becomes more reasonable. Let me know if
> anyone else wants them.... Of course, you still need to stack and
> pack them, and while the company makes higher voltage packs,
> they're
> all extremely current limited :( I would probably go with the
> EP rather than the P version, as it seems a better tradeoff
> between power and energy density. YMMV
>
> They do have very nice cycle life....
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
The recent Vol 6, Issue 1 2005 Switching Power Magazine "The Electric Car, what
Future Does it Hold" article I received today has an *excellent*
article/studies referenced comparing cost/efficiency of proposed fuel cell
vehicles to EV's and hybrids. The average electric car (graph on page 22) is
$2.40 per 100 miles, gas hybrid $4.40, conventional gas $8.80 and worst case,
hydrogen fuel cell cars at $10.08 per 100 miles driven. (Efficiencies (or lack
therof) were similar to last year's U of Wash study on fuel cell vehicles vs
EV's). The article questions the diversion of investment funds in improved
Li-Ion battery technology & hybrids over to a less efficient "hydrogen
economy". It shows the main reason for quitting EV production was fairly
silly, the inability of the manufacturers to agree on a charging standard,
paddle vs plug-in and factory EV's were difficult to plug into a standard
120vac outlet that is everywhere. The standard outlet thing was a major
complaint from the users after going through the responses of EV-1 owners. The
demand was high but were recalled anyway due to charging port problems (and
lack of infrastructure). www.switchingpowermagazine.com
Have a nice day, Mark www.solectrol.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Rostra Ultra II (IMHO, the best of the aftermarket) uses a servo
instead of vacuum. Intended for diesels and low vacuum gas
applications. Everything contained in one small box.
John
On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:44:02 -0600, Matt Holthausen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It would be easy to rig up an existing cruise control mechanism for an
>ICE to your controller potbox, provided you had a vacuum source.
>
>Matthew Holthausen
>
>
>On May 10, 2005, at 1:34 PM, mike golub wrote:
>
>> Is there any cruise control on EV's?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>>
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The factory-bulit S-10 EV's have cruise control... and I find it kinda
eerie to be in a vehicle that moves itself silently down the road. In an
ICE with cruise control you can at least hear the engine working harder
up hills. I get the impression that using the EV cruise control is
slightly more efficient then using my foot. Of course I don't often make
long highway runs in the EV to really get used to the effect.
mike golub wrote:
Is there any cruise control on EV's?
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> But it would be good to have a temporary location that we can all simply
> and conveniently post images and other common-format files to facilitate
> discussions.
There are plenty of free image hosing sites available:
http://www.imageshack.us/
http://www.imagehosting.us/
http://www.imageuploader.net/
http://www.photobucket.com/
http://tinypic.com/
Got any EV pics?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No need to apologize Rod.
You have a point. It is becoming increasingly a police state with all these
Neighborhood Natzies (sp?) and politicians banning our rides left and right.
My county just instituted a ban on off-road vehicles. It's kind of vague
what that means. They don't make it clear. But essentially they say we can't
ride our vehicles on public streets and we need to have them registered and
ask permission to ride them on public property.
Like I'm going to ride my Vego and dual motor Schwinn Missile up and down my
2-car driveway.
I've complained to my county councilman about this. I did his website for
him a couple years ago. When I mentioned it he said, "Oh, I forgot you work
on those things. But I wasn't the guy who instituted the legistlation. Talk
to . . ."
Some of the scooters I work on are for people who commute to work with them
or use them for physical disabilities. Responsible riders affected by the
bans.
About a year ago on the Zappy List I suggested a scooter association be set
up that would help represent the scooter enthusiasts and counter the bans.
The association could also represent the manufacturers who make the
scooters. Loose groups of chapters or members could represent the
association at govt council meetings to at least give our side of the story
during meetings to vote on pending legislation.
Believe it or not my idea was completely shot down. No interest or they said
it was a dumb idea. They would rather just sit back and let the bans happen
and complain as they often do on that list.
Basically we have no representation and we have no way of fighting back
except on an individual basis. We are being clobered left and right in
council chambers across the US.
Probably by politicians and citizens who drive big gas guzzelers and only
care about which direction they point their vehicles in. Everyone in their
way is a hazard. What an ass backwards, self-absorbed, egocentric,
oil-driven country.
Segway was smart. They spent who knows, probably a million or so on lobbying
on behalf or their scooter. We didn't do that or even organize to counter
the bans.
As far as them being unsafe. We have kids driving cars recklessly, drunk and
killing themselves by the thousands in this country each year. Are we going
to ban cars or 19 to 21 year olds for driving cars. Then we should ban guns
too. Those kill people by the thousands in this country. When you think
about it the bans are knee jerk reactions that can easily pass and win over
votes. You bet politicians are going to put on their campaign flyers
"Supported ban on gas and electric scooters."
As far as the safety issue scooter accidents are going to happen. The
association I was thinking of forming would prevent accidents by educating
kids on riding responsible and watching for traffic. Part of the budget
would be to promote safety. Teach kids and all riders that you can't assume
car drivers are going to see you.
I visited my elementary school for career day last week to talk about my
scooter repair business and the first thing I mentioned was scooter safety.
I brought two scooters and my electric car to show the kids. It was a hit
and the kids listened.
So there are common sense ways to approach these issues instead of outright
bans.
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV LIST" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:10 AM
Subject: Hypothetical charger question
> Assume the following:
>
>
>
> Four adjustable 2 AMP switching power supplies 40 to 60 VDC.
>
> Diode output on each supply for isolation.
>
> Four 12V 33 AH SLA batteries.
>
>
>
> Is it possible to use the four supplies (adjusted individually) in a 'set
it
> and forget it' mode?
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVDL members are always welcome to post images to my website at
http://gallery.mindbent.org. Posting images requires an email address
linked account (to reduce abuse) but viewing is free. I have plenty of
bandwidth and storage space to spare.
Non-image files can be sent to my email address and I will post them and
send a url. I will look into some form of automated system, but since
file uploads is a major source of abuse it may not be possible.
Thanks
Mark Farver
I will see what can be done about allowing anonymous uploading of other
files, but since this tends to be easily abused i
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 11 May 2005 09:17:00 +1000, "Ben Haines"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So your saying from your experiance, these battery revival that they are
>able to bring back the capacity but the batteries still had a high
>internal discharge? Quite promising. I wonder how a set of batteries
>would go over time if they periodicaly had the battery rivial done to
>them as part of routine maintainalnce?
Not internal discharge but lost capacity. It's like the pores in the
plates seal back up or something. IOW, if I let the battery sit for a
period of time and discharge it, the capacity drops. Recharge and
discharge again and the capacity remains at the lower level. It
recovers again when the pulser is reapplied.
I have one of these units permanently attached to the batteries in my
motorhome. According to the E-meter they still have practically the
same capacity as new even though they're about 3 years old.
As time allows I'm going to build one from the plans available on the
net and adapt it to my 72 volt Citi and see how it works there. I
want to see if a pack level device will work as well as a battery
level one.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:38:23 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Easiest system to impliment cruise control might be SepEx - shunt motors *want*
>to stay at a constant speed when supplied a constant field current! Being
>non-technical, I'd be lazy and just have a switch to allow a secondary pot on
>the steering wheel, but this wouldn't allow a smooth transition to cruise; what
>you really want is a push button for a constant setting at whatever your
>throttle pot is showing at that time, and a couple buttons for accel/decel, and
>something on the brake to disengage like the ICE version.
Industrial DC motor controllers have a feature called "IR
compensation". This is an additional gain factor in the tach feedback
loop that compensates for the I^2R losses in the motor and external
wiring. When this control is adjusted correctly, the motor remains at
the same RPM regardless of load. It adds a bit of extra voltage to
compensate for the resistive losses.
The pot input is a true speed demand. If, say, 1200 RPM is called for
from the speed pot, the controller maintains this speed over the
motor's entire speed range.
I'm somewhat surprised that the better EV controllers don't have this
feature. Very simple to add, just a few discrete components in an
analog controller and a little extra code in a digital one. With IR
compensation, the accelerator pedal would be a true MPH setting
device.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I've been on this list for a few weeks now.
There's a lot of great information here.
I'm sure most of you are happy the way things are with
this list.
However, the format is not the greatest.
Has anyone given any thought to creating an EV blog?
It would work a lot better because each discussion
would stand by itself.
Another idea for sharing information would to create
an EV wiki web page. That way was a community you
could all make the necessary changes.
Let me know if you know what I'm talking about.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> James Massey wrote:
>
> > But it would be good to have a temporary location
> that we can all simply
> > and conveniently post images and other
> common-format files to facilitate
> > discussions.
>
> There are plenty of free image hosing sites
> available:
>
> http://www.imageshack.us/
> http://www.imagehosting.us/
> http://www.imageuploader.net/
> http://www.photobucket.com/
> http://tinypic.com/
>
>
> Got any EV pics?
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a dim recollection that some time in the past three to
> five years, the general list became aware that there was a
> yahoo list and archive that was (effectively) pirating the
> SJSU list, with no-one responsible for the SJSU list being
> aware that yahoo was intending to do this. No please, thank
> you or anything.
> Such behaviour on the part of yahoo is one of the reasons why
> I (speaking for myself only, but there are likely many others
> on this list who share the thought) will have as little to do
> with yahoo as possible.
Please note that Yahoo does *not* create lists/archives of other lists
such as the EVDL, so it is completely without merit to bash Yahoo on
this basis (though there may well be other sound reasons to do so ;^).
Yahoo lists/archives such as the one(s) of the EVDL are setup by Yahoo
users, not by Yahoo itself.
I believe that in this specific case, the EVDL Yahoo lists/archives were
created by the EVDL's own Bruce Parmenter as a means of ensuring the
EVDL was archived somewhere after the Crest archives died off (Mike
Thompson was the sponsor paying Crest to archive the list, but
eventually got fed up with "paying real money to a lame ISP". See his
EVDL page at: <http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html>.)
For what it is worth, the Crest archives
<http://www.crest.org/discussion/ev/200201/> are still online, but only
for posts prior to 2003. (I personally have never found the Yahoo
archive of any use at all, but perhaps I have been acessing the wrong
one as it only seems to be an archive of the digests.)
Zig Zichterman used to host the EVDL FTP site, but although he can still
be found on the web <http://www.ziggr.com>, the FTP site appears to have
vanished. It might have something to do with Zig presently being out of
EVs (commute too long for his Sparrow).
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Are you sure that the static is generated between the car and the ground? My
experience is that it is rather between the driver and the seat. I.e dependent
on the material of your clothing and the seat, so that your movement in
relation to the seat generates the charge. Especially synthetic fibres in your
clothing and in the seat contribute a lot. When I was a kid at school a popular
trick was to rub the seat of your pants against the school chair and standing
up. When you then touched somebody you both got nastily zapped.
A good way of doing the grounding is to have a coin or a key in your hand and
touching grounded metal with the coin or the tip of the key. There is a good
spark but it does not shock you. The reason might be that the current is spread
so wide in your fingers holding the coin.
Seppo
when exiting the car you take your share of the charge with you and when you
touch something JOHTAVAA the cahrge is grounded.
and how well
>
> L�hett�j�: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> P�iv�: 10.05.2005 22:38
> Vastaanottaja: [email protected]
> Otsikko: Re: Static buildup on EVs
>
> It may not be that the car is electric. On some of my cars I would
> get shocked almost every time I exited and sometimes on entering
> (sometimes with an audible "snap!" and a centimeter long spark). Utah
> is very dry, I didn't have this problem in California. I've learned
> to touch the car metal with my elbow (fewer nerves and less pain). I
> just take it as a good sign that I am meant to finish my conversion
> and drive electric.
>
> I'm also careful to touch body metal before fueling my gasoline cars.
>
> --- Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just curious, all;
> > As an ICE, my Civic would shock me in certain times
> > of the year. Needless to say, it's quite the
> > aerodynamic shape, and as it cuts through dry air,
> > that makes sense.
> > Now as an EV, I get shocked the WHOLE year. It's
> > not a nasty zap, just a normal static discharge as I
> > shut the door. I can't remember the VoltsRabbit doing
> > that.
> > Any bright ideas why it happens? Floating pack in
> > both, so...?
> >
> > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Discover Yahoo!
> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
>
> However, the format is not the greatest.
>
I thought that at first too coming from a message board background.
By using a Gmail account, it makes this list just like using a message
board. The only thing I use this account for is this list. When I
was using my regular email address, it was a big much having all these
emails mixed in with non list emails..
Have a look:
http://img99.echo.cx/img99/9014/gmailev0hw.png
Try it out:
http://isnoop.net/gmail/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub suggested a blog:
Blog---interesting idea---so kick it off!
We could call it the MIKEuBLOG....an anagram of your name.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: Jeep EV: PFC timer position
> Yeppers - the red arrow in your picture it "the" arrow. Little hard to
find
> huh?
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
Can we say small and compact????
That was the intent.
Rich
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
About a year ago on the Zappy List I suggested a scooter association
be set up that would help represent the scooter enthusiasts and counter
the bans.
Believe it or not my idea was completely shot down. No interest or
they said it was a dumb idea.
Basically we have no representation and we have no way of fighting
back except on an individual basis.
Thanks for bringing this up again Chip!
The ETIC/ETDA is a >powerful< lobby with the resources to accomplish
meaningful legislative change. When you proposed the scooter
association, I contacted them and was told that any scooter manufacturer
could join and that they would actively work on our behalf, lobbying for
the PEV. I reported this back to the Zappy list, but maybe it got lost
in the noise.
The one thing is that the ETDA is a manufacturer's organization, so it's
not really designed to represent individuals. I was not a manufacturer
then, so I didn't join, but you can count on me joining now that I am a
manufacturer. You should join too, Chip. You're building choppers these
days, after all.
We can form the core of the PEV interests in the ETDA lobbying group,
and maybe we can even extend the association to individuals through our
manufacturer's access to ETDA resources. We can be the bridge that gives
the individual a voice in the ETDA.
Something to think about. If any other PEV manufacturers out there are
interested in doing something about all this legislation against
electric scooters, please continue this conversation at the Zappy or
Voltage Forums.
I'll copy this post to those places as well.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
That's rich!
A few more details please.
Stu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hypothetical charger question
Yes.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV LIST" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:10 AM
Subject: Hypothetical charger question
> Assume the following:
>
>
>
> Four adjustable 2 AMP switching power supplies 40 to 60 VDC.
>
> Diode output on each supply for isolation.
>
> Four 12V 33 AH SLA batteries.
>
>
>
> Is it possible to use the four supplies (adjusted individually) in a 'set
it
> and forget it' mode?
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Home Depot little gas cylinders are much more expensive than BBQ propane
tanks if you do as much brazing as I do. Oxygen is pretty cheap from a gas
supplier.
If you use a LOT of oxygen or if the gas supplier is not convenient there is
another way to go; a respiratory oxygen concentrator.
For about $200 you can buy a used 5 lpm @ 9psi AirSep or Devilbiss unit that
will provide oxygen 24/7.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Oxgen/propane brazing - a useful hint
Actually, there's a popular little Bernzomatic torch you can buy at Home
Depot that uses small propane and oxygen cylinders. I find it's relatively
easy to light with just a spark lighter, and it works pretty much just
like an acetylene torch.
I generally get much better results though, replacing the propane with
MAPP gas. MAPP was basically formulated to give as high a combustion
temperature as possible, in a gas you can compress beyond 15 psi without
spontaneous detonation (a la acetylene). No need for the porous matrix or
acetone, you can also get cheap disposable MAPP gas cylinders at Home
Depot. The fitting is the same as the standard small-bottle propane
fitting.
I haven't had so much luck welding big stuff with the little torch (I
probably won't be using it for my EV), but it does braze really well.
--chris
Stu and Jan said:
> When brazing a few days ago, I ran out of acetylene. I hooked up my BBQ
> tank
> and tried to continue. I found that it was very, very difficult to get
> the
> torch lit and to do anything useful because the flame kept going out.
>
>
>
> I went to the Web and I found that there is a propane torch tip that is
> available that keeps a propane flame going.
>
>
>
> Then I found a reference about using an unmodified acetylene tip with a
> special lighting method.
>
>
>
> The idea is to hold the tip against a piece of scrap steel. Ignite the
> escaping propane. Add oxygen, and pull the tip back at an angle as the
> flame gets hotter. When the brightest metal heat color is reached, away
> you
> go. There was some discussion about what the correct angle should be.
>
>
>
> The first piece of steel scrap that I found was a cut off bicycle bottom
> bracket with a stubby 1" tube section. It stood up by itself and thus
> became a self-made lighting tool.
>
>
>
> On my very first try, I placed the tip against the vertical tube, lit the
> propane, added oxygen, pulled the tip back, adjusted the mixture, and
> went
> on my merry way brazing without a hitch. The curvature of the tubing did
> not require any special angle. It was pure luck. In fact, I like the
> brazing results better than Oxy/Acetylene. Not only is propane cheaper
> than
> acetylene, it is much more convenient to buy.
>
>
>
> I am amazed how such a simple hint changed my way of thinking and I am
> passing it on should anyone ever need to use it.
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well just back from the detailers it looks brand new! It now has a 34 mile
range with about 3-4 miles in reserve.I have driven it about 1300 miles,and
last
months electric bill increased 20 bucks.The truck sat for a year before I got
it Uncharged.It has the 8 volt batteries which were replaced 80 miles before
it was put up 1 year ago.The batteries only had 6 volts when I got the
truck,so they have come back nicely.Each week I drive it they seem to give up a
mile
or so more range.How many miles do you think it will level out at with the
mistreated batteries it has?Do you think I could get the expected 20000 mile
life
ford estimates? EV RACER to EV Daily Driver Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> A fuse is necessary between the variac and the bridge in case the
> bridge shorts out ONE diode. If the variac is set to a very low
> setting (like 12 volts) it can put massive current into the bridge
> and burn out the lower several windings in the variac before
> anyone notices.
Aha... that's a failure mode I hadn't thought of. Good catch, Joe!
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan, Don, Rich, and all,
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Unless Rich corrects me, the red arrow in your picture is the timer
position. This would probably help explain why you've been getting
less charge time than expected.
Don Cameron wrote:
Yeppers - the red arrow in your picture it "the" arrow. Little hard
to find huh?
You guys sure are correct! While I was waiting to hear back from you
guys on the EVDL (during all that down time yesterday), I did turn up
the timer setting and this time adjusted it to the little dot (arrow?).
Well of course, now I'm getting the amount of time I told the timer to
give me. I don't know if it's set to the most correct setting, but at
least now my pack is tapering off correctly without me having to reset
the charger multiple times :-)
Rich Rudman wrote:
Can we say small and compact????
That was the intent.
Well, I guess then my problem is that I am blind or unobservant or
something, because I never noticed that dot/arrow on the timer pot, and
probably wouldn't have if I hadn't taken that macro-mode photo. Rich,
IMHO it would be really nice if you had some photos in your charger
manual to help clearly point out detailed things like this which can
make a big difference in how the charger behaves.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I apologize if this is a repeat ... my system was acting up this afternoon.
Okay, now that introductions are complete (earlier today) I am ready to
expose my project along with a burning question. Here is my conversion-
'92 Honda VX Hatchback, 5spd stock trans.
WarP 9" motor
Optima Batts. 13ea. of the larger #31's=156V
Zilla Z1K controller w/ large venturis and hi-volume acc. pumps ;-)
Hall effect Amp Pedal
PFC-20B Manzanita Micro charger
Rutman Regs. - planning on remote LED placement
Zivan DC-DC converter
Civic Si disc brakes Frt.&Rr
Tokico struts w/ Eibach springs
Calfskin driving gloves
Well, maybe it won't be *that* fast, but I expect it to be a little sportier
than my GEM Utility NEV.
I decided to build a sporty car, even at the expense of RANGE. Ask me in a
year if I am still satisfied with 25 miles.
I am early into the fabrication part of it now. The designers at Honda did
such a good job of filling the available nooks and crannies that I am hard
pressed to make it look like a 'factory' job. Enough whining.
Nine of the Optimas will be in two boxes, one is forward of and one is
behind the rear 'axle'.
These two boxes will be as low and as unobtrusive as I can make them.
(Victor's ACRX is a beautiful example)
Here is my question -
ACTIVE BATTERY BOX VENTILATION ?? I would like to SKIP that. Who of you
believes that I can safely do that? Who thinks I should increase my life
insurance payoff?
Yes, these are sealed AGM's and they will be charged carefully (barring
equipment failures or adjustment error). Hydrogen accumulation in
(sealed?) battery boxes should not be a problem, right?
I am hoping that this subject is interesting to some of you on the list. I
value your opinions.
Respectfully,
Richard Rau
2001 GEM short-bed
2003 Giant LA Free bicycle w/NiMH batts.
Co-founder of BikeE Corp.
Honda Civic 3dr. (est. completion in fall 2005)
--- End Message ---
