EV Digest 4391
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: help....where can i find data about ev
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Busbars for Batteries
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Fw: C & D type:KCT-360, 8Hr cap 360AH 1hr _40ah lead calcium.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Dual Etek Motor Mounting Plan? (reverse noise?)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Babying new T-875s
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: You need a welder
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Babying new T-875s
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Babying new T-875s
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: WAHOO!!!
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Babying new T-875s
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: You need a welder
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Cryogenic EVs?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: The JeepEV, Zilla, and contactor - Problem Solved!
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 9" Warp motor for drag racing
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: WAHOO!!!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Cryogenic EVs?
by "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: WAHOO!!!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Cryogenic EVs?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Busbars for BB6600 Batteries
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 May 2005 at 17:09, Marco Gentilini wrote:
> I would like to know the energetic efficiency of an electric vehicle. I
> don't want to build it, but however I have to plan it!
Hello Marco. The EV mailing list is used by many people who are building
electric vehicles. Many are hobbyists, and they don't often need to perform
the calculations which you are requestiing. However, some are engineers,
and perhaps some of them have carried out these calculations for certain
kinds of vehicles. Of course there are many combinations of driveline
components and vehicles, and the calculations will be different for each one,
so I don't think that copying their work will help you very much.
You say that you are not building an EV, but rather studying electric vehicle
design or engineering. I'm glad you've chosen that course of study! The
world will need more EV designers in the future.
However, I don't think that the EV mailing list is the best place to get your
answers. I think you will learn more (and get a better grade!) if you discover
them through your own independent research.
Some of the data you are seeking have been published in research papers
describing prototype EVs, from the 1970s to the 1990s. There have been
many examples of such prototypes, including some designed by Fiat. These
papers should be available in the library of a large technical or engineering
university.
You may also be able to find specifications for driveline components on the
web, using the links which I sent to you in a private message yesterday.
Finally, perhaps one or more engineers here will be able to suggest reference
volumes or other books which you can purchase by mail from book vendors
or from the SAE, which may be of help in EV design.
Good luck and best wishes,
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a bunch of surplus BB600 NiCd
cells. These are 34AH and useful for things like electric cars.
One problem is connecting them together. I've priced getting little copper
busbars made up, and that comes out to $1.50ea for the bar, and another
$1.00ea for the nickel plating. OUCH. (Especially since we only paid $1
ea for the cells!) This is for 1-3/4" x 1/2" x 1/8" bars.
Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making the
bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and I'd still
want them protected from corrosion.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stocktonwrote:
> This doesn't mean that it has to be ugly, of course. In this regard,
> the Toyota Echo hatchback
>
> http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/2/wo/Home.Vehicles.Go.EchoHatchback-NTSWSNYtvjTmrzrjdbI45M/3.11?fmg%2fechohatchback%2fintro%2ehtml
That car reminds me of the Chevy Avero...
http://images.google.com/images?q=chevy%20aveo&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-07,GGLD:en&sa=N&tab=wi
~$9000 brand new, ~2300lbs..
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38088/
Focus, costs a bit more, ~2600 lbs..
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38117/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ProEV wrote:
> This works out to 213 watt-hrs per mile.
If you were able to turn off one of the motors and inverters, would
that increase the highway range any and how much?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] regarding these batteries. Not sure it
they'd be any good at 72v and 2500 pounds. Might get an F150 30 miles.
More likely they would be great for a solar system. Read below. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr. Dratsab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:09 PM
Subject: FW:
Lawrence,
C & D type:KCT-360, 8Hr cap 360AH 1hr _40ah
72 lbs.
I have 24 ea and Pascal has 12 ea..
http://www.cdpowercom.com/cd/products/batteries/flooded/kct_kt12_321.htm
http://www.cdstandbypower.com/products/batteries/related/powercom_hazmat.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone running their Etek backwards notice that they
squeel and don't sound very happy? Has anyone done something
to resolve this? I'm thinking of applying sandpaper in the
place of one pair of brushes and running it backward till the
comm is sanded down slightly and stops making that noise?
Is this a bad idea?
L8r
Ryan
BadFishRacing wrote:
In my experience, the center of the timing slots is neutral timing. So out of
the box, the motor will perform the same in either direction. I've only had to
adjust the timing a tiny bit to get equal current on both motors.
As far as sharing a single sprocket, as with joining any shafts, any
misalignment will wear on the motor bearings. Just be sure you join the two
motors first, then attach the motors to the mounting brackets. I'm not sure
exactly how critical the shaft alignment will be? Anyone else..
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
-------------- Original message from Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: --------------
I am building a small 3 wheel cabin scooter and using dual eteks. My current
plan is to use both motors facing eachother sharing a single sprocket over the
end of both shafts (short shaft motor) and a key long enough to go down both
shafts completely so they are forced to rotate at the same speed and it will
allow an simpler/lighter drivetrain.
For people more familiar then I with the Etek is their a long term issue with
doing it this way? One motor going CW and the other CCW would be my main long
term concern.
I have seen motorcycles with the eteks mounted the same way sharing a chain and
facing with seperate sproket/chains but I'm expecting to commute on this so need
something that will last long term.
Thanks for any advice,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making the
bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and I'd still
want them protected from corrosion.)
No clue. You should sell the batteries to me for $2 a battery, take the
profit and get a nice dinner out :-)
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
my converted Daihatsu Charade passed inspection last weekend, and is now
allowed on the road! (well, it will be when I go pay for the registration
papers).
I've not yet had the opportunity to give it a good shakedown (ie. only driven
it a handful of miles, and never had it above 30mph), but I did have some
questions regarding what I can expect from the batteries.
It's running (brand new) 15x 8V Trojan T-875s in series for a total of 120V.
Fully charged, I found that I was hitting the low-voltage limit of 105V
(1.75V/cell) at around 200Amps (accelerating from stop). I'd expected it to hit
the 350Amp limit first, which was the programmed limit at the time.
I'm wondering if this is to be expected until the pack gets "broken in", or do
I start looking elsewhere ("lemon" in the pack, dodgy interconnects)? Assuming
the former, is 1.75V/cell a safe limit to "baby" the pack through the first
couple dozen cycles, or should I consider going higher? All being normal,
should I see the current available at this limit slowly increase with cycles?
Are there other things to avoid in this period?
Looking forward, are 105V (1.75V/cell) low-voltage and 350 amp limits
reasonable (keeping in mind that this sort of current will only be needed
periodically) for long, happy, battery life?
Thanks for any advice!
Grinning,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to:
Evan Tuer
Mark Farver
Neon John
Reverend Gadget
Ryan Bohm
Chris Tromley
Roger Stockton
James Massey
For the excellent real-life data points! Good to learn things are not
as bad for MIG as the book seemed to say -- the guy does seem to have
a pro-TIG bias (although most of the book is on MIG welding, maybe
that's a reality check!).
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 09:46 AM 26/05/05 -0700, David Dymaxion wrote:
> >Disclaimer: I have only welded a couple times, and poorly at that!
>
> Won't hold that against you.
>
> >Anyway, a book I have
>
> I wasn't going to reply to this, but there are some points that
> no-one else
> has mentioned (yet). This is from my experience in being an
> electric-welder
> service tech for many years, as well as going and doing technical
> training
> modules of welding so that I knew what they need to do (and welding
>
> thousands of objects as part of the rest of my work).
>
> > Flux core MIG tends to splatter more
>
> Agreed, but since 99% of machines seem to be run as gas-MIG, an
> irrelevant
> point. MIG spatters much more than TIG (Pick your judgement value,
> since
> TIG is almost spatter-free). But spatter is a minor annoyance if,
> like me,
> your weld shapes are not perfect so the job gets cleaned up with a
> grinder
> and sander anyway.
>
> > You have to chip off slag every time you stop flux core MIG,
> >might be 20 to 30 times on a tube weld
>
> This one has been answered by Gadget.
>
> > Smoke and the torch design makes MIG harder to see the weld
>
> Smoke? Not with gas MIG, unless you are welding something that has
> not beed
> properly prepared. Which brings up a point - with ANY welding,
> clean ALL of
> the old paint/rust/oil etc off the parts within at least an inch of
> the
> weld zone. Good preparation is probably 80% or more of getting a
> good weld.
>
> > Once you start MIG you can't change speeds
>
> Well, sort of. Advanced machines can have operator control on a
> pendant, so
> can be tweaked on the fly. But in addition, you can adjust your
> weld power
> (around 5 to 10%) by moving the tip closer and away from the job.
> Also if
> the weld pool is getting too hot you can stop for a moment, and
> restart
> when the pool cools back some. You can also change your speed of
> travel, at
> the expense of bead shape, slower is flatter weld with more
> penetration,
> faster brings less penetration and more bead, too fast is
> inadequate
> penetration. But unless you are doing something strange, why do you
> need to
> change speed?
>
> > One off welding (like race cars) tends to be TIG welded, MIG
> is
> >faster for production
>
> Has been answered by others.
>
> > MIG welds start off cold for the first fraction of an inch
>
> True, but on steel, no matter. Structural Aluminium should really
> only be
> MIGed with a more advanced machine, which has an aluminium profile
> that
> ignites with minimum feed and lots of amps, then brings up the feed
> and
> backs down the amps for the main weld, and ramps off the amps when
> finished. Doesn't mean you can't MIG aluminium with a typical
> 'dumb'
> machine, it's just harder.
>
> > MIG welds are more brittle at the start and stop, since the
> >shielding gas gets turned on and off with the arc.
>
> Ha! Not on a quality machine since around 1975. Shielding gas comes
> on with
> everything else, to be sure, but until the arc lights up, no
> problem. Few
> machines that I've come across have pre-gas for MIG. But most
> professional-market machines have post-gas timers, along with
> burn-back
> timers. But on steel the problem is not brittleness, but porosity.
> Cheap
> MIGs have this problem. Quite a few times I have refitted someones'
> cheap
> MIG with a 'real' gun and a timer and gas valve (a lot of cheap
> MIGs have
> guns that have a manual gas valve in the torch body). If you are
> looking
> for a cheaper MIG, look for one that uses a professional gun, and a
> gas
> valve, a good indicator of the rest of the machine.
>
> >Question, do any race bodies restrict using MIG vs. TIG vs. gas
> >welding?
>
> I am not informed to answer that question.
>
> As an additional datapoint, the senior fitter at the local brewery
> (where
> 95%+ of the welding is stainless), contracted privately to build
> some heavy
> (6 or 8mm wall) RHS shelf frames as part of an expansion. He TIGs
> at work,
> he TIGs at home.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:12 PM 26/05/05 -0700, John Lussmyer wrote:
Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a bunch of surplus BB600
NiCd cells.
One problem is connecting them together.
Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making the
bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and I'd still
want them protected from corrosion.)
How much tolerance can you allow for hole diameter and position? You may be
able to buy copper bar and get them punched & cropped at a smaller metal
fabrication shop with suficient precision.
There is still the plating issue.
Something to investigate.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:11 PM +1000 5-27-05, Claudio Natoli wrote:
...I found that I was hitting the low-voltage limit of 105V
(1.75V/cell) at around 200Amps (accelerating from stop). I'd
expected it to hit the 350Amp limit first, which was the programmed
limit at the time.
Hi Claudio,
Glad to hear that you are on the road!
Be aware that the low voltage limit on the Zilla is approximate and
usually a bit conservative.
You probably want to verify the actual limit level with a voltmeter
as it may be limiting higher than your 105V set point.
Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:28 PM 5/26/2005, James Massey wrote:
At 02:12 PM 26/05/05 -0700, John Lussmyer wrote:
Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a bunch of surplus BB600
NiCd cells.
One problem is connecting them together.
Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less expensive? (Making the
bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of them, and I'd still
want them protected from corrosion.)
How much tolerance can you allow for hole diameter and position? You may
be able to buy copper bar and get them punched & cropped at a smaller
metal fabrication shop with suficient precision.
There is still the plating issue.
These prices ARE from small local shops. He can get copper busbar cheaper
than I can, and happens to do quite a bit of the same for the local
telecomm people.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar writes:
> Be aware that the low voltage limit on the Zilla is approximate and
> usually a bit conservative.
>
> You probably want to verify the actual limit level with a voltmeter
> as it may be limiting higher than your 105V set point.
I should have been clearer, but thanks for the heads up.
Have both ammeter and voltmeter dials on the dash, and with the ammeter pegged
at around 200 Amps I noticed that the voltmeter was reading around 105.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all, i'm new to the EVDL, but am pretty familiar with ev's. A group of
college students and I are converting a 1980 VW Scirocco S into a drag racer
currently. We have stripped the vehicle of the interior and have taken out the
gas motor/transmission. We're strengthening the frame to help support the
power levels we plan for, which is to hit the 12 second 1/4 mile barrier. As
of now we plan on using a 5 speed VW transmission that is built to handle the
high load of torque needed to meet our goals. For power we are using 20 12
volt 40 AH hawker batteries to source the needed current.
My main question is can we get enough power out of a 9" Warp motor to achieve
our goals? We will be running a controller, but its only a 120 volt 1000 amp
unit for the usual around town driving. For full power we're using a contactor
setup. I've heard of using bigger brushes, advancing the timing, seating the
brushes, etc. to increase power, but what else can be done??? Thanks for
any input on the subject.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Checking battery voltage after these types of runs have pointed
toward this being a pretty accurate range estimation. -snip -
Then he broke it to me: "Hey, I just took your car about 15
miles"...!!!! He got 7 or so miles from home when he realized how
far he was. He said it wasn't as powerful near home, but it made it.
Maybe your pack voltage isn't a good SOC indicator, then? I used to
think that my pack voltage was a fairly good SOC indication, but lately
I've discovered that it is not. Needless to say I've been using my
Hydrometer a lot lately, and seeing the SG of the cells after different
drives has really helped me see how the batteries react SOC wise to
driving different distances/ speeds. But since you have AGMs this
doesn't help you. Though, I wonder if there is a difference between
floodeds/AGMs when it comes to how much the voltage relates (or doesn't
relate) to the SOC?
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Claudio
I will be in Sydney in early June. Could I have a look at your Daihatsu?
I will be staying at Gymea Bay.
Regards
David Sharpe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Claudio Natoli
Sent: Friday, 27 May 2005 1:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Babying new T-875s
Hi all,
my converted Daihatsu Charade passed inspection last weekend, and is now
allowed on the road! (well, it will be when I go pay for the
registration papers).
I've not yet had the opportunity to give it a good shakedown (ie. only
driven it a handful of miles, and never had it above 30mph), but I did
have some questions regarding what I can expect from the batteries.
It's running (brand new) 15x 8V Trojan T-875s in series for a total of
120V. Fully charged, I found that I was hitting the low-voltage limit of
105V (1.75V/cell) at around 200Amps (accelerating from stop). I'd
expected it to hit the 350Amp limit first, which was the programmed
limit at the time.
I'm wondering if this is to be expected until the pack gets "broken in",
or do I start looking elsewhere ("lemon" in the pack, dodgy
interconnects)? Assuming the former, is 1.75V/cell a safe limit to
"baby" the pack through the first couple dozen cycles, or should I
consider going higher? All being normal, should I see the current
available at this limit slowly increase with cycles? Are there other
things to avoid in this period?
Looking forward, are 105V (1.75V/cell) low-voltage and 350 amp limits
reasonable (keeping in mind that this sort of current will only be
needed periodically) for long, happy, battery life?
Thanks for any advice!
Grinning,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was on the Lincoln and Miller welder web sites, and saw the
American Chopper guys use Miller equipment:
<http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/articles50.html>
At first I saw they do MIG. Aha! Case closed! If it's good enough for
Paul and Paul Jr. and their fine motorcycles, it's good enough for
me! Then later I saw they also use TIG -- for easily seen welds that
need to be asthetically pretty. I figure if Mikey can do MIG tack
welds under close supervision there is hope for me to do MIG. I don't
recall them ever allowing Mikey near the TIG equipment.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:25 AM 5/26/2005, you wrote:
Stumbled across this article about a guy who is using cryogenic
processes to drastically improve the life and efficiency of automotive
parts.
There are heat treatment processes that involve cryogenic
temperatures. They use LN2 cooling as part of the process to harden bearing
races, for example. (It is more to shorten the time for the process. You
could take longer and do that portion at a higher temperature, like in a
freezer.)
They have taken part of a hardening process that is legitimate and
actually works, and hyped it out of proportion. Nearly all of these
cryogenic treatments are just snake oil.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've been meaning to post a follow up to this thread about the problem I
was experiencing with my Zilla where it would randomly cut off all power
while I was driving. After a bunch of testing and some excellent (as
usual) help from Otmar, I found the source of the problem and was able
to consistently recreate the problem during testing.
Ryan Bohm wrote:
So here's my theory - you pull big amps, your pack voltage drops, the
output of your DC/DC drops, -snip- the 14V SLI input of the Zilla
sees less than it's low-value tolerance. So the Zilla basically
shuts down
Steve Clunn wrote:
Now this sounds like maybe the contactor points are dirty , or
somthing along these lines , the heavy current goes down the small b+
wire
Ryan and Steve had good theories, but it turned out that the problem was
caused by something completely different. The short answer is that the
problem was being triggered by a _capacitor_ that I had wired between
the battery pack negative and the B+ wire to the controller. The
technical discussion follows:
I had been using my digital multi-meter to measure the pack voltage
while driving. On the negative side, the meter was connected through
18AWG wiring to my shunt (which is connected inline with my Zilla's B-
terminal and my negative contactor). On the positive side, the meter was
connected with 18AWG wire through a 10-amp fuse to the "always on" side
of my main contactor. However, this wire is the same wire that I had
connected to my Hairball's B+ input.
The meter didn't work well at all because it was picking up too much
ripple in the lines when ever the Zilla was switching, and the meter
would freak out. To solve this problem, I connected what I perceived to
be a "small" 250-volt capacitor across the wires going into the meter
(the same to wires mentioned above). Well, the meter worked just great
after adding the capacitor.
Now, the 10-amp fuse I had inline to the Hairball's B+ terminal and
meter+ and capacitor+ was blowing every so often, which usually happen
at the same time that the controller cut-out and set a High contactor
resistance (1141) error. It turned out that my "small" capacitor isn't
so small at 680uF. What would happen is that, under heavy acceleration,
my pack voltage would suddenly drop from ~160 volts to ~130 volts, then
again back to ~160 volts when I pulled my foot off the accelerator. This
would cause the capacitor to discharge/charge quickly, pulling a nice
amount of current and blowing up the fuse to it and the Hairball's B+
terminal.
But I never suspected the capacitor or the fact that the fuse was
blowing as being the actual cause of the problem because testing showed
me that cutting power to the Hairball's B+ terminal while driving does
*NOT* cause the controller to shutdown. However, it turned out that once
the fuse had blown the capacitor would start slowly discharging. Thus,
the Hairball would see that pack voltage (160) was still present on it's
Contactor+ terminal, while the voltage on it's B+ terminal was slowly
*decreasing*. Thus, the Hairball was seeing an *increasing* voltage
difference across the B+ and C+ terminals. Once the voltage difference
got above a certain preset point, the Hairball would log 1141 error and
shut down the controller.
Otmar verified that the Hairball does monitor for a voltage difference
across the B+ and C+ terminals but that it doesn't care if power to the
B+ terminals is removed once the Zilla has powered up; it only looks for
a connection to B+ at start-up.
I've since moved the capacitor and meter to different wiring.
Another Problem solved... I hope my explanation was
coherent. :-)
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 26, 2005 10:01:22 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
Good thought, Subaru WRX would be a candidate. Certainly the Mini has
quite a following.
Go for the 2.5RS. Basically the WRX before they decided to bring
over the hot motor.
Tim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple devil's advocate counterpoints:
People buy economy cars because they are cheap. It would be tough to
do a conversion with any new economy car and make it cheap.
Chevy and Ford sell lots of 6 cylinder Camaros and Mustangs. Indeed,
in the past they have sold a fair number of four cylinder versions of
these cars! There is a sizeable consumer segment that wants the look
of speed, but is happy to settle for less speed for less cost.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Given that the mission that EVs are presently best suited for is
> that of
> the daily commute, it makes perfect sense that an econo-box type
> vehicle
> would be an appropriate base.
> ...
> I think there is significant danger in choosing any 'performance
> oriented' donor vehicle in that the conversion is unlikely to match
> the
> original's performance and there will be significant resistance to
> purchasing a sportscar such as a Mustang if it can't meet the
> accleration and/or speed specs of the ICE version.
> ...
> I think it is far easier to convert an econo-box and end up with a
> conversion that meets or exceeds the original's performance and,
> most
> importantly, the end user's expectations. This will make it an
> easier
> sell than a 4-cylinder performance equivalent Mustang.
> ...
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--- Begin Message ---
I should also mention that we plan on running the car at 240 volts with the
contactor setup and 120 for normal driving on the controller. We also have
some pictures of our progress at
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=1973&s=248801be9fab2b4a8a23f61a88380b1b
john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi all, i'm new to the EVDL, but am pretty
familiar with ev's. A group of college students and I are converting a 1980 VW
Scirocco S into a drag racer currently. We have stripped the vehicle of the
interior and have taken out the gas motor/transmission. We're strengthening the
frame to help support the power levels we plan for, which is to hit the 12
second 1/4 mile barrier. As of now we plan on using a 5 speed VW transmission
that is built to handle the high load of torque needed to meet our goals. For
power we are using 20 12 volt 40 AH hawker batteries to source the needed
current.
My main question is can we get enough power out of a 9" Warp motor to achieve
our goals? We will be running a controller, but its only a 120 volt 1000 amp
unit for the usual around town driving. For full power we're using a contactor
setup. I've heard of using bigger brushes, advancing the timing, seating the
brushes, etc. to increase power, but what else can be done??? Thanks for any
input on the subject.
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--- Begin Message ---
You might be mixing stories. A 96v bug might do that. But that cheap
conversion kit works on 36v. You'd have to use a lot more lead to get
better range. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: WAHOO!!!
Thx, I read last week from a link on here of a VW bug conversion said 80
miles at 35mph 40 miles at 50mph at $1800 with everything, I might be off
a bit on my #s
is this wrong?
Thank You
................................
www.12voltguy.com
SeaBass44/~Darren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: WAHOO!!!
Hi,
80-100 miles per charge might be the norm for production EVs which often
used better batteries (like Nickel Metal Hydride or Nickel Cadmium), but
I suspect the "average" range of your typical conversions (which use
lead-acid) is much lower. In all the looking around I've done on the
EVAlbum and talking to other EVers, it seems to me like 30-50 miles is
more typical. And then there are those of us who struggle to break 20
miles per charge (think big, heavy Jeep with a crappy transmission ;-)
darren wrote:
Why only 15 miles?
I am getting the idea 80-100 is the norm..........
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360346
BS, you know nothing about it then.
Nearly all of these
cryogenic treatments are just snake oil.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You guys are using about 421 pounds of batteries. What did that cost? What
did the BMS cost and how is it working with the PFC charger? LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 1:41 PM
Subject: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
Hi Everybody,
The Electric Imp has been out being fast on the track. Unfortunately we
have
been a lot slower keeping everyone abreast of what we are doing. It is
funny
how racing always seems to win over typing. We do have a mass of good data
that we will be posting including track videos. I will let the list know
when we get some more stuff up on the web site.
Anyway, I wanted to tell the tale of our trip to Steve Clunn's EV Rally.
We had a good time and had a chance to drive the Electric Imp further than
ever before.
Our race shop is about 130 miles from Ft Pierce where the Rally was being
held. Shawn Waggoner, Florida chapter EAA President and organizer
extraordinaire, offered to trailer the Electric Imp to the Rally. Since he
lives 58 miles towards Ft Pierce, we decided to drive to his house and
trailer from there. To add to the festivities ( and our peace of mind ),
we
plan to convoy up with a Prius.
In theory, the Electric Imp's 22.4 KW-Hrs of Kokam Lithium Polymer
batteries
should give us a range of 100-110 miles of highway driving. Theories are
wonderful things but we had never driven the Imp further than 30 miles
without charging.
Our new version of our BMS has just given us the ability to equalize all
the
cells voltages so we were cautious optimistic that we can go the distance.
We get on the Florida turnpike, snuggled up to the back of the Prius and
try
to hold our speed below 65. Since most traffic is doing 80 we keep finding
our speed drifting up.
58 miles later, we roll in to Shawn's. Our pack voltage is 331 volts or
about 3.76 volts per cell. According to voltage, the cells have about 50%
capacity left. SIADIS claims we have used 12.4 kw-hrs or 55% of pack
capacity. This works out to 213 watt-hrs per mile. Not bad!
We load the car onto the trailer and then plug in to Shawn's new 50 amp
220
volt plug. The PFC50 shows 30 amps going into the pack. This much power is
a
wonderful thing.
Shawn and Matt have started an EV company called SEVO
(http://www.suncoast.net/). They
are planning on selling Electric pocket bikes and have some protypes ready
for the Rally.
Which means: Test drive!
Now, for those of you who have never seen a pocket bike, they look like
racing motorcycles that got put in the dryer for too long and shrank to
1/5 of their
original size.
Riding them is a blast. You crouch low on the bike. Your head sticks out
in
front of the wheel and the road zips by a foot and a half below your nose.
The SEVO bikes have lots of torque. Easy on the throttle or the front
wheel
lifts. Lots of fun.
The Prius gets to draft Shawn's truck as we go the rest of the way to Ft
Pierce. MPG climbs from 46 to 49 though it is not clear how much of the
gain
is from less wind resistance and how much is from just driving smoother.
At the rally I get to meet, in person, a lot of people I have only known
from
the list. Briefly:
Steve Clunn is as intense in person as he comes across in his emails. It
is
great to see what that much drive can accomplish. Most of the EVs at the
show exist because Steve put them on the road. The majority are work
vehicles, rough but practical. The exception is the Gazelle, a eye
catching
Mercedes replica that entranced everyone.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/616.html.
I also spent a lot of time with Charles Whalen. He is working with Steve
to
convert his Porsche using Valence batteries. It is great to see more
lithiums being tested. Valence seem to be aiming at a different market
than
the Kokams. The Valence cells are limited to very low currents (think
Thundersky's or wet lead acids) but they are claiming 2000 cycles which
would make them a long term bargain.
Charles said he had to sign a non-disclosure to get the batteries but I
hope
he will post as much as he can as he and Steve learn more. These batteries
might be an excellent option for some conversions.
I also got to meet Lowell Simmons, the driving force behind Mirimar High
School's award winning EV program. He was there with their new Porsche 924
and a huge trophy from their overall win at the EV Challenge this year.
That is just a few of the EV enthusiasts that I met. There was lots of
good
information and we all talked EVs until we were hoarse.
Late in the day, Shawn sat everyone down for the Electric Auto Association
meeting. I have to admit that I did not get around to paying my EAA dues
until last week. I hope others have been more efficient. If not, go to
www.EAAEV.org now and sign up. The Electric Auto Association gives EV's a
voice. Join and give them more clout.
Back to Shawn's and unload the Imp and finish charging.
The Prius and Imp convoy home. Our speed is a little higher. We skip our
one
wrong turn and only have to go 57.2 miles. Battery voltage ends at 332 or
3.77 volts per cell. Still over 50% Charge left. SIADIS claims 12.763
kw-hrs
(57%) used or 223 watts per mile. Best of all, the BMS says there is only
0.03 volts between the highest cell and the lowest cell. I think 100
miles
is doable.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my range experiments, I set a pack voltage minimum of 10 volts per 12
volt block. That was 40 volts for my 48 volt car.
The further I drove, I could draw less and less amps without breaking the
voltage limit. This caused the car to go slower and slower. When the car
slowed to an unacceptable speed, the range run was over.
If I was only running on one battery string, I could throw the switch to
connect the other string and drive home.
This also allowed me to creep into a charge location without damaging the
batteries if I had been using both strings at the same time.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: WAHOO!!!
> Hi,
>
> Ryan Bohm wrote:
> > Checking battery voltage after these types of runs have pointed
> > toward this being a pretty accurate range estimation. -snip -
> > Then he broke it to me: "Hey, I just took your car about 15
> > miles"...!!!! He got 7 or so miles from home when he realized how
> > far he was. He said it wasn't as powerful near home, but it made it.
>
> Maybe your pack voltage isn't a good SOC indicator, then? I used to
> think that my pack voltage was a fairly good SOC indication, but lately
> I've discovered that it is not. Needless to say I've been using my
> Hydrometer a lot lately, and seeing the SG of the cells after different
> drives has really helped me see how the batteries react SOC wise to
> driving different distances/ speeds. But since you have AGMs this
> doesn't help you. Though, I wonder if there is a difference between
> floodeds/AGMs when it comes to how much the voltage relates (or doesn't
> relate) to the SOC?
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360346
>
> BS, you know nothing about it then.
>
> Nearly all of these
> > cryogenic treatments are just snake oil.
> >
I think the guy with the funky airfoil on his van got more positive
testimonials, so if that's a gauge of BS...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay, I'm one of the people who has picked up a
> bunch of surplus BB600 NiCd
> cells. These are 34AH and useful for things like
> electric cars.
> One problem is connecting them together. I've
> priced getting little copper
> busbars made up, and that comes out to $1.50ea for
> the bar, and another
> $1.00ea for the nickel plating. OUCH. (Especially
> since we only paid $1
> ea for the cells!) This is for 1-3/4" x 1/2" x 1/8"
> bars.
>
> Anyone have suggestions on how to make this less
> expensive? (Making the
> bars by hand is a LOT of work for several hundred of
> them, and I'd still
> want them protected from corrosion.)
It depends on what your time is worth.
You can easily make these from thin copper like
1/16"-3/32" thick stock that you can cut with tin
snips and do the holes with a punch. Or use thicker
stock and drill but drilling copper isn't as easy.
Then you can coat them in a melted bath of solder
or rig a zinc, alum, tin, chrome, ect plating set up
which is not that hard.
Or since you all need a lot of them, have someone
do them all and send them to the others at a
reasonable price.
You do have Belvue type washers don't you? You
need them as the bolts will work loose without them
melting things.
If you can't get someone to do it, I would do it
to the method you all want, specify for less than
you've been quoted by a lot, price depending on which
process you want. But probably $.50-75 each if several
of you go in for them.
Though would need help getting the sources of
the materials as in Tampa we have little of anything.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
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