EV Digest 4434
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Blue Meanie vs. Maserati
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Blue Meanie vs. Maserati - Zilla Updates
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Weekend at Waylands part1
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Battery Capacity Testing
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Link10 RS232
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Blue Meanie vs. Maserati
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fw: 100A battery tester
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Weekend at Waylands part2
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Harbor Freight Welder
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Harbor Freight Welder
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Harbor Freight Welder
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Harbor Freight Welder
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Power of DC - A literally hot event.
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Harbor Freight Welder
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Welding, schmelding
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Harbor Freight Welder
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Welding, schmelding
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
1000 amps of Zilla power in a 2340 lb. car is fun stuff, indeed. 2000 amps
jammed into
that Big Yellow Beast of motor Jim put together, in a minitruck fed from 29
Exide Orbitals
at 348V, ought to be enough to keep Tim busy and wipe that silly EV grin off his
face...well, maybe not.
Hello John,
I'm sure you guys all thought of this, but aren't you going to have
around 410v on the batteries at around maximum charge?
Exactly how high of a voltage can a Z2k take?
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Otmar,
I looked on your site for the latest Zilla firmware.
http://www.cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/updates/
I downloaded and installed HB18FUpdate113 in Dec 2003.
The dates on the files on your web site, however, say Dec 2004.
Is this actually newer stuff, or is it the same as what was there in
2003?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Otmar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 12:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Blue Meanie vs. Maserati
At 6:40 PM -0700 6/13/05, Tim Brehm wrote:
>The car
>lost power. I was thinking "OH S#%T" I killed the Blue Meanie!!
>
> (Otmar you shouldn't read this part)
Ya Right Tim! As if I could resist! :-)
> I let the car coast (still at a good speed) until they caught me.
>We made our way to
>the shoulder. I was still sitting in the driver seat when John came
>running up with a
>concerned look on his face "What happened?" he asked. I explained "I
>don't know. I was
>going really fast then I lost power, maybe a fuse?" Then, I turned the
>key off and
>recycled it, and I had power again. Oh yeah! Thermal shut down.
I think probably not. Thermal shutdown is a very gradual thing, the
power slowly backs down, it doesn't shut off suddenly.
Hey John, did you put the new code in the Hairball like I asked you
to? Remember, the stuff I sent you a couple months ago when you said
you were putting it in the car? Jab jab.. (I'm guessing he didn't) :-)
John got the first Z1K ever made. The code that was last in HB #006
(we're well past #106 now) is from over two years ago. Knowing John,
I'm guessing he was too busy to upgrade the code, just like he was
too busy to put in a cooling system before telling Tim to "Have fun".
You guys are nuts! But plenty of fun. :-)
Anyway, the old code could cause random shut down of the Hairball, as
well as corruption of settings. Better upgrade it if it isn't yet,
that can be a safety issue.
If it was upgraded then I want to know what error codes it stored.
The new code should not be doing such a thing.
I need to get back to the four Z2Ks sitting on the bench awaiting
testing. One of which is Johns.
Have fun. Oh, that's right, you are. :-)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to all.
I just had to get a post or two in about the weekend trip to
Waylands. First I'd like to offer my thanks to both John and his
wife Cheryl for all they did to make an exciting event happen.
Here's a little behind the scene look from my point of view it went
something like this�
I awoke Saturday morning and headed to the shop to finish some last
minute tasks before heading the 150 miles over the mountain to John's
house. I loaded the multitude of disassembled pieces of what used to
be John's (viable) racing motor into the truck. I also had to
remember the pressing cup, in addition to some misc. materials I
thought I might need, as I would be very far away if I happened to
forget something. I found my self pacing around the shop making sure
I was not forgetting to bring something. Satisfied I was "go for
take off" I took off for the three-hour tour, the three-hour tour�
The weather started getting rough (lol) and I found myself on top of
Mt. Hood with rain just coming down and I had John's motor pieces
sitting exposed in the back of the truck.
I kept my speed up to keep the rain to the back end of the truck and
kept the rain off the motor (WHEW). I arrived in Portland around
noon. Keith was supposed be there shortly but got held up and didn't
arrive until 1:30 where John was just putting on a tape of a guy
blowing up a motor (which I wanted to see) (wasn't my motor hehe).
John pops the tape in and says watch the brushes pop out of this
motor just before the motor blows. Sitting with bloodlust in my eyes
the tape begins. After the guys launch's you see all this debris
kick out (but it isn't brushes) and the motor fireballs in a blaze of
arcing madness. I shout out to John "that guy runs a GE huh". He
asked how I knew that and I told him that it was the plastic fan that
broke up and spit out and was the cause of the thermal nuclear
meltdown. He screams at me I knew you'd know what that was. John
please use that tape as an informational tape on what not to do to
the Siamese 8. So watch it again as I see you failed to follow
Otmars instructions. Anyway we all got motivated to get some work
done. As Tim had posted I just got a new truck and as I was going to
get in John says Jim you care if Tim drives it so you can ride in
Blue Meanie? I hesitated just because I had this feeling, and I
passed for a ride later but he insisted. I threw Tim the keys to the
truck and jumper in with John. As I had just read to post about
John's Meanie tricks, I knew what to expect and Blue Meanie
delivered. I'm a high energy guy and well it's hard to tell when I
get really excited. john didn't thing that I seemed all that
impressed, but I was, but I was stessing out about getting his
armature assy. finished and how it was going to go, as this is all
new stuff here. Anyway upon arriving at Dutchman Motor sports, we
proceeded to unload the motor parts for reassembly. John comes back
into the shop white as a ghost and tells me I had something on my
pants that got on his seat. I said your messing with me right? No
he wasn't. I had soiled Blue Meanie. Somehow I picked up something
from the shop and smashed it right into his seat. The 4G take-offs
and turns gave it a good mashed in look with good coverage. The Da#m
thing looked the size of quarter (John had already removed the thick
black mucus like tumor from the sit) leaving just the stain. My
pants were spotless. With the call, MEANIE OVERBOARD!! Everyone
shouted their best stain removing techniques to John in a desperate
attempt to remove the stain. It worked and John got it to where no
one but him knows it's there. Another near miss, but I felt a cloud
of despair was beginning to brew. With Keith needing to leave at
5:00 we had three hours to finish this up and I knew it wasn't going
to happen, and it didn't, so at 5:00 we left with one armature on the
shaft. The middle bearing area was also on, but we had fan rubbing
issues to resolve. Around midnight Keith called to say he was
heading to the shop. As John and I are walking out he says lets take
the Meanie. The hairball I was holding back told me this was not a
good idea, but I obeyed and after a quick "Butt" check, we were off
to Keith's. We finished pressing the second armature on, after
addressing the rub issue, only to find other issues (which had John
making more guttural stain noises) but in the end Keith and I beat
the beast of an armature assembly and the worst was over, or so I
thought. At 2:00 in the morning and beat tired we realized that we
had to cram 3 people and over 300 Lbs. of motor and dirty motor
baskets into the John's Blue Baby (I knew I wanted to take my truck)
Luckily I had brought an end roll of unprinted newspaper that I get
from the local newspaper, which we hoped would prevent John from
further Hyperventilation. So with Keith in the front seat holding a
3 foot long 100 Lb. armature assembly, me in the back holding a dirty
parts basket, and 200 Lb. of parts and tools in the trunk we set off
for the slowest ride Meanie has ever taken. And so ended day one�
Stay tuned for weekend at Waylands part2�
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Measuring the voltage at the battery.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: June 13, 2005 10:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Capacity Testing
Are you measuring the battery voltage at the battery or the load?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:15 PM
Subject: Battery Capacity Testing
> I have just finished load testing a "test" 12V battery from my pack with a
> 20 Amp load and a 45 Amp load (I will do a 100 Amp load later this week).
I
> have the battery voltage, current and battery temperature logged every
> second during the test. The battery was fully charged before the test and
I
> ran it down to 10.5 Volts before ending the test.
>
> For the deka 8G34R, the
> average current = 17.43 Amps,
> elapsed time = 1.41 hours,
> average temp = 17.3 deg C
>
> The second test,
> avg current = 43.95 Amps,
> elapsed time = 0.329 hours,
> average temp = 21.8 deg C
>
> Just one question: how do I adjust for temperature?
>
>
> thanks
> Don
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the LED trick - pin 3 works fine. I did not pay enough attention
to the manual - I need to have a null modem cable.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: June 13, 2005 10:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Link10 RS232
Connect a dual color LED from pin 3 to pin 5.
If the LED flickers every second, it means the data is flowing.
If the LED comes on steady, it means the driver is connected but the data is
not coming out.
If the LED does not come on, my documentation might be wrong and you should
run the same test from pin 2 to pin 5.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:19 PM
Subject: Link10 RS232
> I just tried my Link10 with RS232, however no data is coming from the
meter.
> I have tried with two different laptops. Looking in the manual it does not
> appear that I have to set any special parameters to turn it on.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> thanks
>
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
>
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://41/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Martin K wrote:
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> > 1000 amps of Zilla power in a 2340 lb. car is fun stuff, indeed. 2000 amps
> > jammed into
> > that Big Yellow Beast of motor Jim put together, in a minitruck fed from 29
> > Exide Orbitals
> > at 348V, ought to be enough to keep Tim busy and wipe that silly EV grin
> > off his
> > face...well, maybe not.
> >
>
> Hello John,
> I'm sure you guys all thought of this, but aren't you going to have
> around 410v on the batteries at around maximum charge?
~435V at full charge.
>
> Exactly how high of a voltage can a Z2k take?
I'll leave that answer up to Oat...don't want dad to yell at me again :-)
See Ya.......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those things pull 100 amps? I thought they only did 30.
Chris
Joe Smalley wrote:
I received this today...
I believe Tony may be talking about
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90636 or
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90920
Either one of these can put a load on a battery to check its cranking
ability. They cannot be connected continuously until the battery is dead
because the load will overheat and fail (unless you have a really big fan or
submerge it in something thermally conductive).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "ToneB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 7:15 AM
Subject: 100A battery tester
Hey Joe,
Please pass this on...
Harbor Freight has a 100A load tester for $15.
Can't build it for that!
i'm not on the list, just read the archives.
afn
Tony Barros
sacramento
california
usa
earth
milkyway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I wanted to break these posts up because there was so much going on,
and well to a newbie here it was quite over whelming. As I stated we
didn't get back from Keith's shop till around 2:30'ish Sunday
morning. Well I'm an early morning riser, and I was awake at 6:00,
and up by 7:00. As I waited for John to get up I had some time to
admire the backyard they have. It's really private and has a park
like setting with large trees, a small pond and lots of plants. It
all has a real natural feel to it. The day before John and Cheryl
had some disagreements as to what to do with some yard debris and
some misc. junk that had started to pile up. John needed to finish
cleaning his shop for everyone, and to keep me from finding any more
greasy things from attaching itself to my pants. With the "STAIN"
still fresh in his mind he was determined the need for a clean shop
was of the highest importance. Well I thought it would be nice to do
something for Cheryl, and without asking John first, I blurted
out "Hey I got a truck and I though maybe I could make a dump run for
you guy's. The look in Cheryl's eye's said I love you: ), but the
look John gave me was I hate you : (. Well John lost the ensuing
argument, and we began loading the truck with stuff in short order.
Well in short I just wanted to help, but it was a costly delay (2
dump runs) to an already busy day as we had many, many things to
finish before people were to arrive. John needed to get some more
cash for the second dump run (sorry again John hehe). He says come
on Jim let go and throws me the keys to the Blue Meanie. With fresh
grease stains and Tim's issue of power loss the previous day I was
literally having a heart attack, and was sure I was going to kill
John's Blue Baby. Upon getting to a major street John says go-ahead
punch it� With my tension levels now exceeding my shaft pressing
stress I pushed the pedal down with and received a nice response.
John was unimpressed. Well I was doing 60 in a 35 and well I'm like
Tim, I don't exceed speeds by that much but also don't like taking
long to get there though. John is un-impressed. At the next light
John tells me "punch the d#%n thing, you wimp ". On the green I made
for a quicker 0 to 60, but I never did find the floor and I'm sure
john was un-impressed again, but I had a blast, and I was pleased I
didn't break anything. I later felt that maybe Meanie was just
jealous that the Zombie was getting all the motor love and wanted to
get me in trouble, lol.
Anyway having completed the "dump" issue, I started masking motor
parts off as John painted them a nice purple. With the aluminum end
and middle plates, and the black mount brackets it will be a very
pretty motor. Well time fell short, and people started to arrive.
It was an EV smorgasbord with John's cars, the half finished Siamese
8, and the big yellow beast set up to show people the variable timed
brush ring at 24 volts. There was a 1000-RPM difference between full
advance and full retard, and it sounded like a 350Lb sewing machine
ready to stitch some track up hehe. Well after a few in and out
guests I heard "wow, I made it". I looked up to see a guy getting
off a beautiful proto-type quad-pedaled bicycle thingy made from
composites and titanium. After meeting the owner Richard (sorry no
last name) everyone gathered for some show and tell about this unique
human powered machine. I asked Richard if he could give use a little
demonstration which he did with pride. Now Richard had told us in
our story swapping that he had had an accident that found him in a
coma for 3 weeks and left him with some mobility issues. They
actually had to teach him how to swallow again, and well we can only
imagine the amount of work it took for him to get to where he is
now. This guy was an inspiration to the human spirit. I mention
this only because once on the bike he moved with the fluid grace of a
dolphin in water, and well I was touched by his ability to overcome
all odds, and well I tip my hat to you Richard, as you show what can
be done when you fail to fail. Well as he was giving us a show here
comes John on one of his many E-scooters and well the race was on,
with john being smoked and cameras flashing to the spectacle, God it
was fun. After Bill from Utah (sorry no last name again) arrived as
well as several others who I fail to remember even their first names,
(sorry guys my brain had turned to mush as I was tired and saturated)
John gave out some sample Blue Meanie rides (resulting in many EV
smiles) until we had to go to dinner. Mean while Father Time arrived
freshly burnt from the Canada trip. We were able to talk a bit about
the big 13 inch motor that I will be building for him. The insane
look he had, as we demonstrated the yellow beasts timing ability told
me it wasn't Wayland or Madman I needed to worry about concerning the
life span of my motors. Well dinner was great, but went by far to
fast, and we found ourselves back at John's, where Blue Meanie gave
out some more rides, and got some more well deserved attention. I
stayed another night in Portland so I could do a motor run before I
left, as there were motors to be picked up. Being I had the Siamese
8 parts to show off, I was eager to show some customers what I was up
too. I started by calling Keith to see if he had time to do a little
show and tell with his guys (being we had built it in the cover of
darkness). I found myself showing the unit to around ten "Hot rod
guys" with disbelieving eyes. I followed that up by doing around 8
show and tells, before I left for the long trip home� I'm sure all my
time tables are wrong and there is so much I've missed but I wanted
to get this up before work and I'm running late so this is it for now�
Hope you enjoyed
Jim Husted
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
To open the welding thread, the new HF catalogue of the Net this am has a
nice 119 bux MIG wire one marked down. Should I buy it? Think it'll do auto
sheet metal without blowing holes in it like my old stick welder buzz box.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob, a number of years back I purchased an inexpensive MIG. It was tons
easier than stick, but still did not do sheet steel very well. I then
purchased a Lincoln 110V - it was a night and day difference - smooth feed,
consistent arc, worked well at lower heat settings. I now have a 220V
Miller Mig and just picked up a Lincoln TIG - although TIG is tougher to
learn than MIG, it is a real dream on lightweight stuff once you get the
hang of it.
I suggest you try out a couple of units side by side if possible. Can you
try one at a friends place? Does HF have "demo days"? You can always go to
your local Lincoln or Miller shop and ask for a demo. Our local welding
shops are pretty friendly and love to demo their machines.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: June 14, 2005 7:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Harbor Freight Welder
Hi All;
To open the welding thread, the new HF catalogue of the Net this am has a
nice 119 bux MIG wire one marked down. Should I buy it? Think it'll do auto
sheet metal without blowing holes in it like my old stick welder buzz box.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a couple of Harbor Freight welders and like them both very well.
The self-fluxed Mig does a fine job quickly with metals where you don't need
deep penetration and you can get 110 or 220 volt models. I have one of
their 110 migs and a 220 stick welder that will burn standard rods very
well.
Get an auto darkening helmet! They are the best thing to come along in
years!
IMHO
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab SE "Saabrina"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:41 AM
Subject: Harbor Freight Welder
Hi All;
To open the welding thread, the new HF catalogue of the Net this am has
a
nice 119 bux MIG wire one marked down. Should I buy it? Think it'll do
auto
sheet metal without blowing holes in it like my old stick welder buzz box.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
for general use mig is a waste of time
tig is much better on thin stuff and there is no
splatter
you can keep your stick welder for thick stuff
mig works ok on both thick and thin but is not ideal
for either
the only advantage i can see for mig is speed - if you
need to put down a lot of long runs tig is far too
slow
tig and stick are weld systems which take a bit more
skill but at least they are the right tools for the
job
I know lots of people will disagree with this and i
know that you can weld sheet metal with a mig but
after years of welding i have a tig which i use all
the time, two stick sets which i use once a year and
two mig units one small and one big and i haven't
turned them on in ages
stump up the cash and buy a 200amp inverter based HF
ac/dc tig set and you will be able to weld anything
including ali copper etc
just my opinion you understand
reb
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bob, a number of years back I purchased an
> inexpensive MIG. It was tons
> easier than stick, but still did not do sheet steel
> very well. I then
> purchased a Lincoln 110V - it was a night and day
> difference - smooth feed,
> consistent arc, worked well at lower heat settings.
> I now have a 220V
> Miller Mig and just picked up a Lincoln TIG -
> although TIG is tougher to
> learn than MIG, it is a real dream on lightweight
> stuff once you get the
> hang of it.
>
> I suggest you try out a couple of units side by side
> if possible. Can you
> try one at a friends place? Does HF have "demo
> days"? You can always go to
> your local Lincoln or Miller shop and ask for a
> demo. Our local welding
> shops are pretty friendly and love to demo their
> machines.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Bob Rice
> Sent: June 14, 2005 7:41 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Harbor Freight Welder
>
> Hi All;
>
> To open the welding thread, the new HF catalogue
> of the Net this am has a
> nice 119 bux MIG wire one marked down. Should I buy
> it? Think it'll do auto
> sheet metal without blowing holes in it like my old
> stick welder buzz box.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>
___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This had to be one of the best NEDRA Power of DC events we had.
Where to start? Well, I arrived late to the track because I had fallen behind
getting things ready for the race. But when I arrived everyone was there and
everything was pretty much set up. NBC TV Channel 25 from Hagerstown was there
filming and did a 2 minute piece for the 11:00 news. So cool.
But it was a blistering hot day. 90 plus degrees with a light wind and tons of
humidity. We had a total of 15 vehicles show up with lots of crew and
spectators gathered around the grassy pit area including the rock band
Wolfspider. I met up with Ian, the producer from the Discovery Channel, and we
talked about what would be good shots to get and he interviewed me about the
race as some of the EVs were going down the track. Valerie Myers had made a run
in her Sparrow and the Brigham Young team had done a really impressive 14
second run with their ultra-capacitor EV-1.
After the first interview with Ian I headed back to the pits to finish setting
up and was really impressed with how everything had come together.
THE PITS
Timothy Humphries was set up on the end under a tent with the jr dragster
lifted up on some stands. They were hard at work putting the electric jr
together. This was quite and effort and Cody was able to ride around the pits
in the car at the end of the day.
Next to Tim was the crew from BYU. At least their trailer. They actually camped
out at the staging lane to dump charge the EV-1's ultracapacitors before their
really successful runs. I finally had a chance to meet up with Tom Erekson. We
had been talking about them coming to Maryland for a couple years now and we
are glad they made it. They had done alot of work on getting the axles just
right to handle the torque. 3 weeks before the race they had axles custom made
and installed.
EVA/DC had brought the Aztec Solar racer rolling chassis for display. The car
is being restored and may race at the PDC in 2006.
Next in line on pit row was Shawn Lawless of Lawless Industries (makers of
parade float chassis) and his newly configured Orange Juice Dragster. We
renamed it "Orange Concentrate" for obvious reasons since it was shortened 8
feet and was running with - get this, 8 motors, 6 wheels - 4 of them rear drive
wheels and a Zilla controller at 240 volts. When Shawn first mentioned to me he
was rebuilding the Orange Juice with 8 motors, 4wd, and 6 wheels I thought he
was going to race one of his parade floats. So to actually see this in person
was something else. Shawn was really appreciative of Rich Rudman for rushing
out a Zilla Controller for him to use. The dragster really hadn't been tested
except for some short jaunts in Shawn's parking lot so this was a first time
run for the new design. Shawn also brought his really cool Torquoise and white
96 volt Nash "Electropolitan" which his wife Lori raced and a beautiful blue
48-volt 1966 Chang Jiang electric motorcycle with side car.
Bob Salem and Dave Erb brought Bob's really nice 240-volt VW Rabbit. Bob is now
the only guy who has raced at NEDRA events on both coasts in the same year
which is really cool accomplishment. Next to Bob was Darin Gilbert and his
48-volt twin Etek Pirahna motorcycle. This is Darin's fifth race with us and
has been with the Power of DC from the beginning.
Charlie Garlow from our local club, the Electric Vehicle Assoc of Wash DC, set
up a cool solar display including a solar water fountain I felt like jumping
into since it was so blistering hot. Charlie had brought his OEM Electric
Chevy S-10. Charlie lets anyone race his truck at the drags giving them a
chance to see what it is like to drag race. Thanks Charlie!
Next to Charlie was my good friend Dave Stensland who had just moved from
Colorado to New York. Dave, his wife Lisa and their son made it down from New
York to set up his Megawatt Motorworks display featuring his Fiamp t-shirts and
some EV books.
We had our Power of DC tent set up in the middle of Pit Row staffed by my
helpful wife Monica who managed all the administrative tasks of the race and
keeping track of all the money for the NEDRA memberships, T-shirts and Raffle.
My kids Jake and Jenny also helped out as well as my Dad who hauled up the
coolers, food, shirts and trophies and stuff in my van. And Dad loaned me his
gargantuen Ram Turbo Diesel truck to haul my EV up to Hagerstown. I wonder if
he could run biodiesel in it. Behind the tent we had our Solar Slot cars set up
for the kids which was fun.
Brian and Sharon Murtha, from EVA/DC set up the food area with plenty of cool
drinks. Brian drove his RAV-4 EV 100 miles to the race. To me this was really
cool. Brian's house is powered by Solar so he charged his car on solar and
drove it 100 miles to the race, raced his RAV-4 then drove home. That was
incredible. This proves the viability of EVs and shows it can be done if only
the auto manufacturers and the govt would back our efforts.
Next to PDC, Shawn Wagonner and Matt Graham from Suncoast Electric Vehicle
Outfitters from Florida had their cool tent with their new electric minibikes
on display and brought their 48-volt Pocket Bike "Cyclone". They are selling
scooter and pocket bike contoller kits now and gave one away at our raffle.
Also hanging out with Matt and Shawn was Lowell Simmons from Miramar High
School in Florida with their Black 944 Porsche sporting Matt's Zilla contoller
and dual XP-1227 motors. Awesome car!!
And next to SEVO on Pit Row was the West Virginia University with their
Electric Formula 1 Lightning. What a cool racer this was. When I was talking
with Roy Nutter, the professor from WVU on the project, he mentioned they would
race it but it wasn't geared for drag racing which was fine with me since this
just gave the Discovery Channel more of a variety of cars to film.
We ran out of room for all the EVs on that side so across from us were local
Hagerstown resident Valerie Myers with her Sparrow, and Larry Jaroe brought the
Great Mills High School 252 volt MR2 called the Green Hornet. Great Mills wired
the pop up headlights so they popped up alternatly like the car was blinking at
you. The kids loved it.
Bob Rice brought his Lead Sled VW Rabbit from Massachusettes. He didn't race it
but had it up near the stands and staging areas basking in the sun foor
everyone to see. Bob also brought his cool green BladeZ Scooter.
Other EVDL were there as well including Mark Hanson from Virginia. He wanted to
bring his electric Jeep. And I really hope he can next year because Mark has
done pretty cool stuff with it. He builds his own controllers and chargers and
has a really cool solar and geothermal system set up at his house. He is truly
an innovator. Really impressive stuff.
Net Gain has to earn one our Hard Luck Awards. Three years in a row something
has broken to prevent them from racing their dragster. Even so all three guys
led by Kevin Zak came to race to check it out.
Doc Kennedy has been wanting to race and this year he brought his EV Warrior
Bicycle to race. And Joseph Lado brought along his newly aquired Destiny 2000
Fiero
>From sunny Arizona came Jerry Asher, EAA Chapter Relations. And last but not
>least Power of DC founder Greg Pokorny visited from Pennsylvannia to see the
>race and help out with the awards. It was like old times again.
Ian and the crew from the Discovery Channel made their way around the pits and
got plenty of interviews throughout the day
THE RACE
I have to admit I was kind of out of it most of the day. I hardly had any sleep
the past two weeks finishing a job and getting ready for the race. Plus the
track's 70 kW generator that was loaned to us broke down so we had no power for
the majority of racers so I was pretty frustrated with that. But we did our
best to make do with what electrons we brought with us and some people had
brought along generators.
Even with the generator malfunction we broke three NEDRA records and we won
both gas vs EV challenges which Discovery Channel caught on tape. It doesn't
get any better then that.
The first challenge was Bob's Salem VW truck against a Hot Rod Lincoln which
Bob won with no problem. Bob mentioned seeing the guy in his rear view mirror
as he headed down the track. The next challenge was just as awesome. Lowell
Simmons raced Miramar High School's beautiful black dual-motor Porsche 944
against a Honda Pocket rocket that the Porsche easily handled. The spectators
in the stands were pretty impressed.
Bob also had his best time EVER with the truck! 14.946 seconds at 90.44 mph.Bob
was ecstatic the truck did so well. The planets must have been aligned that day
for best times because the BYU EV-1 also got the best time they ever had in the
MP/A class at 400 volts and beat their previous NEDRA record by 1.8 seconds!
That run was 14.080 at 91.21 mph, a new NEDRA record for the MP/A class.
Speaking of Class A acts, Larry Jarboe driving the Great Mills High School MR2
set a new NEDRA record for the HS/A Class at 252 volts running Optima Blue
Tops. His record was 15.938 seconds at 86.55 mph. Larry was so thrilled with
being there racing he has registered as a lifelong member of NEDRA.
Also seeing both Larry and Lowell go at it racing the Porsche and the MR2 was a
blast. They had a great time racing each other. But on their last run of the
day we had a bit of a fireworks display. Ian, the producer from the Discovery
Channel mentioned a couple weeks ago he wanted to see some sparks. And this
time he did but the cameras were too far away to catch the action. Lowell and
Larry were lining up at the staging light and after Lowell did his burnout a
whole bunch of sparks came flying from under the car. It was quite a display
but not good news for the Porsche.So Larry took off down the track and the
Porsche was towed off. I believe the metal case covering the rear battery pack
shorted out against a battery cable. Even with the short, the Miramar Porsche
posted some pretty respectable times with a best time of 16.258 at 63 mph.
Back to the BYU EV-1. The car was awesome. Although they only made two runs
before a pin sheared. The car performed the best it ever has. Just seeing it
race you could tell it was flying down the track. It was quite a spectacle.
Since the car is so light up front when it was taking off it started hopping
down the track. Once they get the axles repaired and the traction issues ironed
out the car should post low fourteens or thirteens.
Local Hagerstown resident Valerie Myers had her 156 volt Corbin Sparrow flying
on Saturday posting a best time of 19.182 seconds at 71.82 mph. In between
races she drove her Sparrow home and back to cook some hamburgers for the crew.
Valerie was not our only female competitor. Lori Lawless drove the Lawless Nash
"Electropolitan" to a new SC/G NEDRA record at 14.324 seconds in the 1/8 mile
at 41.75 mph.
We had 5 bikes race this year which was cool. Shawn Wagonner and Matt Graham
raced their 48-volt pocket bike Cyclone with an Etek motor. Matt raced the bike
6 times with a best time of 11.422 seconds in the eigth at 52.74 mph. Former
NEDRA record holder Darin Gilbert joined us for the fifth year in a row with
Pirahna and was just shy of catching the MT/I record at 10.120 in the eigth,
just a half second away. Phil Foss brought his 3-wheel tilting trike and made a
few runs down the track. Doc Kennedy was going to race a motorcycle but
couldn't finish it in time so he brought his 24 volt EV Warrior Bicycle and
raced that. And Shawn Lawless raced his beautiful blue 1966 Chang Jiang
motorcycle and sidecar at 48 volts.
We actually did have two dragsters racing this year. Under NEDRA rules the West
Virginia Formula Lightning was classified as a dragster. This looks like a
Formula One or Indy type car. It had big pods on the sides but graciously
molded in as part of the body for the quick change out batteries. The car
wasn't geared for drag racing and posted 20 second times but still looked great
going down the track.
And of course Shawn Lawless' Orange "Concentrate" dragster as we have nicknamed
it. This car looks nothing like it did last year's Orange Juice. At least from
the roll bar back. The best way to describe the look is the front of a dragster
with a wide skirted street sweeper housing on the back. Inside the housing are
4 wide and short drive wheels hidden with Eteks on each side of the drive tires
for a total of 8 motors powered by a Zilla courtesy of Rich Rudman. The car
hadn't been tested on a quarter mile strip before the race but ran great with
the new configuration.
Mark Moore drove the dragster 3 times first at 95 mph then at 11.98 seconds at
108 mph. This dragster was quite a site to see.
AWARDS
I think I'll post the Awards and Final Results in another message. But after
the race which ended about 5 pm we had our raffle and awards cermony. Bob Salem
had donated some multi-meters and Roderick and Otmar donated some T-shirts.
Also SEVO donated a scooter controller kit. we also had a raffle for a
GoMotorboard scooter. After the raffle we gave out awards and trophies for 1st,
2nd and 3rd in motorcylces, high voltage car and low voltage car. QuickCable
provided us some tools to give out to the First Place Winners.
When we were sorting out the times for the awards I realized something. We had
8 cars with voltages higher then 200 volts and only three at 156 volts and
less. One person is responsible for this and that is Otmar. He has changed the
face of NEDRA racing with the Zilla. Next year we are going to have to figure
out how to break out the awards for the higher voltage cars because we had so
many. Look how far we have come.
After the awards we headed out to Ledos's for dinner in Hagerstown. Ian, from
the Discovery Channel joined us. We had 40 people in the back room eating
dinner and sharing EV stories. It was a fun end to a great day.
See yall next year!
PS. I should have some photos of the race soon on the PDC site. I still need to
update that. Check out Dave Stensland's site at
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/photos.asp?album=pdc2005 for some great photos
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.nedra.com
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/14/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know lots of people will disagree with this and i
> know that you can weld sheet metal with a mig but
> after years of welding i have a tig which i use all
> the time, two stick sets which i use once a year and
> two mig units one small and one big and i haven't
> turned them on in ages
> stump up the cash and buy a 200amp inverter based HF
> ac/dc tig set and you will be able to weld anything
> including ali copper etc
> just my opinion you understand
> reb
Well, the expense is the main thing, isn't it. Still, I'm tempted to
give it a try for chassis welding on my EV projects. Machine mart
have an "Arc / Tig 150 Inverter" for �300, plus another �100 for
torch/hose and whatnot. Any opinion on that for general/light use?
Their 200A is getting kind of steep.
I think my Mig cost about �150 new, and the gas is �10 a bottle, and
it doesn't use much. I can work it and It's pretty good at welding
up rusty sills on my rotted old Ford too :)
What do the consumables cost on the Tig setup?
Any good resources for learning to use the thing?
Thanks
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to step in David's territory, but those who really want to persue this
discussion might want to join a Yahoo forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/welding_projects/ (it has over 1500 members).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi evan
arc tig inverter is dc only so no ali welding with it
you are right of course you will need argon a
regulator a flowmeter and a torch to use a small tig
set
consumables are
feed rods (dirt cheap for steel)
tungstens �1 each ,last for ages
collets and bodies about �6 last you a year
shrouds �5 each (last until you drop the torch on the
floor)
as you won't be welding ali you do not need 200amp
you can weld up to 5mm steel with about 120amp
you also only need one size of tungsten
,shroud,collet,body etc cutting the cost right down
buy all the bits on ebay at half the cost of an
industrial supplies shop
argon is about �90 a massive 6ft high bottle from boc
with a small monthly rental it will last you a very
long time indeed
as for learning to use it - buy a copy of the haynes
automotive welding book for about �15 - it really does
have all the info you need - then have a go
if you have an ounce of mechanical skill and manual
dexterity with in 5-10 hrs practice you will never use
your mig again
regards
reb
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 6/14/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > I know lots of people will disagree with this and
> i
> > know that you can weld sheet metal with a mig but
> > after years of welding i have a tig which i use
> all
> > the time, two stick sets which i use once a year
> and
> > two mig units one small and one big and i haven't
> > turned them on in ages
> > stump up the cash and buy a 200amp inverter based
> HF
> > ac/dc tig set and you will be able to weld
> anything
> > including ali copper etc
> > just my opinion you understand
> > reb
>
> Well, the expense is the main thing, isn't it.
> Still, I'm tempted to
> give it a try for chassis welding on my EV projects.
> Machine mart
> have an "Arc / Tig 150 Inverter" for �300, plus
> another �100 for
> torch/hose and whatnot. Any opinion on that for
> general/light use?
> Their 200A is getting kind of steep.
> I think my Mig cost about �150 new, and the gas is
> �10 a bottle, and
> it doesn't use much. I can work it and It's pretty
> good at welding
> up rusty sills on my rotted old Ford too :)
> What do the consumables cost on the Tig setup?
> Any good resources for learning to use the thing?
>
> Thanks
> Evan
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sorry
if it's any consolation i do use my welding kit to
build electric bikes,trikes ,karts etc
oh and i've just bought an electric car
reb
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Not to step in David's territory, but those who
> really want to persue this
> discussion might want to join a Yahoo forum at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/welding_projects/ (it
> has over 1500 members).
>
>
___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu, David is absolutely right in his estimations.
I drove today to work and noticed my numbers:
8.71Ah out of battery, 1.73A in the battery, normal city driving.
This is 1.73/8.71 = 19.8% surprising record so far. Probably
because my home is at higher elevation than work place, but
the fact remains I gained about 20% of energy back.
This will be the case *for this route* regardless of my
total battery capacity, so don't ask for it (for the
record, it is 70 usable Ah). Important is I gain 1Ah per
each 5Ah spent.
Victor
Stu and Jan wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden (Akron OH USA)
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
On 13 Jun 2005 at 15:16, Stu and Jan wrote:
Divide 13Ah by XAh and that will be the decimal fraction of your gain in
range.
Sigh. OK, one more time.
"Practically speaking, the range improvement from using regeneration is
anywhere from 5 to 20 percent, "
You have made up your mind by throwing out these figures. 20% is an
emotional response, not a factual response.
Instead of sighing, please indicate the Ah capacity of your EV.
My mind is not made up about using the motor in reverse for braking. I am
for it 100%.
I just want the facts on the percentages of regeneration.
13Ah divided by what?
BoyntonStu
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
