EV Digest 4485
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Simple Diagnostic Circuit
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: State of Charge calculations
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Engine Generator Question
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: [RAV4-EV] Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by Suhas Malghan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: State of Charge calculations
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: OT: Another idea that probably won't work
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: State of Charge calculations - Eureka!!!
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Venturi Fetish video
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Engine Generator Question
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Crash safety and micro EV's
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Please critique adapter
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: State of Charge calculations
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT: Another idea that probably won't work
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: State of Charge calculations
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
There are 6 unused bulb slots in the middle of my dash, and I thought it
might be nice to turn them into a simple diagnostic aid so that if (when!)
the car should not start at some point, I could flip a switch on the dash
that would light a series of LEDs to give me some indication of where the
problem might be. I've posted the planned circuit at:
http://www.users.qwest.net/~denniswilliamsha/DiagnosticCircuit.gif
If anyone would like to take a look at see there are any errors or to offer
any suggestions, I'd appreciate it. (I realize that the "Check Engine" and
"Motor OK" are redundant, but that's okay.)
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> C = 200 Ahr N = 1.25
> I20 = 200 Ahr / 20 hr = 10 A
> Cp = (10 A)^1.25 x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
>
> This last equation is wrong. The units on both sides of an equation
> MUST be the same, for the equation to be correct. Here, we have Ah
> on the right side, and (A) ^1.25-h on the left.
Look, guys: Puekert's equation is empirical; it just fits an equation to
the curve you get when you actually discharge lead-acid batteries at
different currents. It's not defining some deep law of physics.
> No engineer would even write out an "equation " like that.
Of course we do. Engineers use "rule of thumb" equations all the time.
Almost all simple equations are just approximations that work "good
enough" for most cases. We only include the minor terms when precision
is needed, or when the conditions are far out of the ordinary.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody have a source for these? I see them in throttle linkage app's all
the time (my Chevy truck had them on the throttle-body- plastic, of course).
Looking for metal ones that fit .25" ball.
Any robot guys out there?
Thanks!
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks
---> Robin R1100
I like this generator... read the part(link--->How an
Inverter Generator Works) about not haveing to run it
at 3600 rpm to get 120v ac... (The rpm is adjusted
acording to power useage) using an inverter they can
generate an(almost)dc voltage and convert it! Way
smart!
Put one of these on your Rav4ev spar tire rack
(carefully mounted of course) and you could start it
up as you leave and take advantage of rest stops and
such and extend your range that way!... you'd have to
make gas stops, holding only 1.1 gal of gas.
http://www.robinamerica.com/generators/index.lasso
http://www.robinamerica.com/generators/detail.lasso?mdl=R1100
Length inches 19.3
Width inches 11.6
Height inches 17.5
Dry Wt. lb 55lb
Tom
-----snip-----
Hi Jerry and others interested in range extender
generators,
I have found the Robin Subaru EX series engines, such
as the EX-21 7 HP to be ideal for this purpose and a
good value for lightweight generators up to 9HP.
These are steel timing chain driven OHC engines,
rather like small motorcycle engines in that aspect.
They are designed to fight for market share against
the better known Honda GX series, by offering better
quality and performance, better cooling and
lubrication, lower cost, lower emissions and lower
fuel consumption. They are "drop-in replacements" for
the Honda GX models, but typically offer a little more
power in each case (e.g. the 7HP EX-21 at 35.3 pounds
replaces a 6.5HP GX200 at 36 pounds) and have a higher
RPM rating as you would expect. I have a brochure
which is 8 pages just comparing the Robin EX with the
Honda GX and showing the improvements of their newer
design, pictures of parts in each, etc. There are
lots of nice touches, like a fuel strainer in the gas
tank filler. Many of the things you might like to do
or wish for, to improve a standard industrial engine
are already done.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: Engine Generator Question
snip
>
> I'm open to an industrial engine though it would
> have to be modified to lower emissions and some
power
> increase that would result from making it more eff
as
> a bonus. In fact probably what I'll do as I need new
> units for this. The MC was for others who could use
> used motors.
snip
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try Mc-Master-Carr www.mcmaster.com
or www.smallparts.com
Your local hobby store might be able to help out as well, check out
towerhobby.com to see what's out there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 7, 2005 12:36 PM
To: EV Discussion <[email protected]>, RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [RAV4-EV] Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
Anybody have a source for these? I see them in throttle linkage app's all
the time (my Chevy truck had them on the throttle-body- plastic, of course).
Looking for metal ones that fit .25" ball.
Any robot guys out there?
Thanks!
Marv
_______________________________________________
RAV4-EV mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin Campbell wrote:
> Anybody have a source for these? I see them in throttle linkage app's all
> the time (my Chevy truck had them on the throttle-body- plastic, of course).
Did they look like these?
http://www.holley.com/data/products/pictures/large20-2.jpg
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=728&prmenbr=361
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Marino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2005 03:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: State of Charge calculations
>
>
>
> >From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: State of Charge calculations
> >Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 07:21:10 -0700
> >
> >You wrote:
> >
> > > Cp = (10 A)^1.25 x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
> > > This last equation is wrong.
> >
> >This is Peukert's Equation:
> >
> >I ** N * T = Cp (Current raised to the Peukert's constant multiplied by
> >time equals Peukert's capacity in Ah)
> >
> >It's the same as the example above. This is the equation you are claiming
> >is wrong.
> >
> >It boils down to this:
> >
> >You're claiming the equation is invalid, and that every source that
> >indicates the equation is valid is wrong. You're claiming that if
> >researched, this will be shown to be true.
>
>
> Yes - that's exactly what I am saying.
>
>
> >The burden of proof is on you. You have not cited a single book, article,
> >or website to back up your assertions.
>
>
> No references are necessary to show that an equation must have the same
> units on both sides. (And, citing a website certainly wouldn't help -
> that's how we got into this mess. )
>
> That is basic to the idea of an equation.
>
> Both sides of an equation are equal; that means: equal value, AND equal
> units.
>
> How can 10 Amp-Amp-hours = 10 Amp-hours ? ( That's what happens if N=2 in
> that equation) Do you think that is correct?? Is it possible that 10
> sq-inches = 10 inches ?? How many chickens equals 20 degrees Faranheit ?
>
>
> Although I don't really know, I say again that I would be surprised if the
> above equation actually is Peukert's Equation. He was most likely an
> engineer or scientist, and would not write an "equation" with different
> units on both sides.
>
> So, I am not attacking Peukert or his concept that battery capacity is
> reduced at increase current draw. Just this particular equation. Most
> likely, someone misinterpreted his work, and put it on the web. After,
> that, people could just copy it without thinking for themselves.
>
>
>
> To summarize, I claim that:
>
> 1. The units of that equation are not the same on both sides. ( for values
> of N that are not = 1)
>
> and
>
> 2. The units of ANY equation must be the same on both sides for it to be
> valid.
>
>
> Do you disagree with either of these statements ?
>
>
> If so, we must agree to disagree. ( and get back to real EV-related stuff)
>
>
> Phil
It looks to me like it's a problem with the placement of parenthesis, to wit:
Cp = (10 A)^1.25 x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
to get the units to match up, it should be written as:
Cp = (10^1.25)A x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
I've not been able to actually verify this theory with a web search, however,
in my search, I found the following fasinating web page on the history of
numerical battery modeling.
This includes equations that take into account battery age, number of cycles,
temperature, state of discharge and terminal voltage depression under load.
http://www.thermoanalytics.com/support/publications/batterymodelsdoc.html
But as Lee said, Puekerts is close enough for most of our applications. If an
EV is being driving to within 1% of its range, you might consider changing
something more substancial than the range calculations.
Mike-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know this is going to be hard to believe, but McMaster-Carr did not have them.
I contacted SmallParts (no pix in the catalog) but haven't heard back.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Marv
> Try Mc-Master-Carr www.mcmaster.com
> or www.smallparts.com
>
> Your local hobby store might be able to help out as well, check out
> towerhobby.com to see what's out there.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Jul 7, 2005 12:36 PM
> To: EV Discussion <[email protected]>, RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [RAV4-EV] Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
>
> Anybody have a source for these? I see them in throttle linkage app's all
> the time (my Chevy truck had them on the throttle-body- plastic, of course).
>
> Looking for metal ones that fit .25" ball.
>
> Any robot guys out there?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marv
>
> _______________________________________________
> RAV4-EV mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to a heavy duty class 8 truck dealership.
Tom
>
> From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/07/07 Thu PM 12:36:59 EDT
> To: EV Discussion <[email protected]>, RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
>
> Anybody have a source for these? I see them in throttle linkage app's all
> the time (my Chevy truck had them on the throttle-body- plastic, of course).
>
> Looking for metal ones that fit .25" ball.
>
> Any robot guys out there?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marv
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
It's a good thing, when dedicated EVers step up, put their money on the line,
and provide
the rest of us with terrific EV products that improve things. Rich and Joe have
done just
that with their high quality, reliable, affordable, and powerful PFC charger
line. The
recent flurry of negative posts about these fine chargers has me concerned,
because in my
opinion, for the money there 'is' no better charger. Are they perfect? No, but
darn close.
They are feature packed, and are always being improved...witness the step up
from PFC20,
to the PFC30, and the new water cooled 40L models, the mighty PFC50, and now
the BIG stuff
these guys are working on. People have asked for isolation....it's being made.
Now, we
hear of Bill's thermal runaway problem, and there's been an active and open
dialog.
Rich and Joe's fast acting chargers have completely changed the way I can use
my short
range daily street EV, Blue Meanie, because with its hotrodded PFC20 cranking
out on the
edge of 30 amps, it only takes 45 minutes - one hour or so to fill the car up
again. At
the track, my PFC30 has eliminated the need for me to use dump charging, and
when
supporting area EVers or Rich himself show up with a brawny PFC50, geesh,
charging the
race car between quarter mile blasts is a piece of cake...if only my 10 kw
generator could
keep up! The quality of construction is top notch, the tech support is
instantaneous and
courteous, and the versatility of going from a 120 volt charging to a 240
charging with a
few easily assembled adapters and the use of the 'AMPS' knob, is super
convenient and adds
flexibility to charging your EV.
I'm a bit worn down hearing the negative, so let's hear from the hundreds of
satisfied
others who like me, absolutely love their PFC chargers. I've written over and
over about
how these Manzanita Micro chargers have revolutionized the way I can use my
EVs, so I'd
like to hear from all those other happy customers out there...what's your story?
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hear! Hear!
I love my little PFC-30. When looking for chargers, there were none even
close to its price range that can charge up to 370 volts. I would have to
pay 2-3 times as much for any other charger which can put out similar power
at this voltage. I really like the way that it will take any AC input, so
opportunity charging is a real bonus.
For my future projects I am looking forward to putting more PFC chargers to
work!
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Wayland
Sent: July 7, 2005 10:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
Hello to All,
It's a good thing, when dedicated EVers step up, put their money on the
line, and provide the rest of us with terrific EV products that improve
things. Rich and Joe have done just that with their high quality, reliable,
affordable, and powerful PFC charger line. The recent flurry of negative
posts about these fine chargers has me concerned, because in my opinion, for
the money there 'is' no better charger. Are they perfect? No, but darn
close.
They are feature packed, and are always being improved...witness the step up
from PFC20, to the PFC30, and the new water cooled 40L models, the mighty
PFC50, and now the BIG stuff these guys are working on. People have asked
for isolation....it's being made. Now, we hear of Bill's thermal runaway
problem, and there's been an active and open dialog.
Rich and Joe's fast acting chargers have completely changed the way I can
use my short range daily street EV, Blue Meanie, because with its hotrodded
PFC20 cranking out on the edge of 30 amps, it only takes 45 minutes - one
hour or so to fill the car up again. At the track, my PFC30 has eliminated
the need for me to use dump charging, and when supporting area EVers or Rich
himself show up with a brawny PFC50, geesh, charging the race car between
quarter mile blasts is a piece of cake...if only my 10 kw generator could
keep up! The quality of construction is top notch, the tech support is
instantaneous and courteous, and the versatility of going from a 120 volt
charging to a 240 charging with a few easily assembled adapters and the use
of the 'AMPS' knob, is super convenient and adds flexibility to charging
your EV.
I'm a bit worn down hearing the negative, so let's hear from the hundreds of
satisfied others who like me, absolutely love their PFC chargers. I've
written over and over about how these Manzanita Micro chargers have
revolutionized the way I can use my EVs, so I'd like to hear from all those
other happy customers out there...what's your story?
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Jul 2005 at 21:03, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I am not sure this is really off topic, we all must contend with the
> best way to do the occasional 240 mile trip.
If it's only 2-3 times a year, why not rent or borrow an ICE for those days?
What we really need, gang, is station cars. Unfortunately stncar.com seems
to be defunct, which isn't a good sign.
The idea grew out of the need for commuter parking at train stations. The
original thought was that you'd have a small electric commuter based at the
train station, which would by its size increase parking capacity. You'd
drive it home at night, back to the train station in the morning - or to
work in the day, back to the train station at 5pm. You'd pay a monthly fee
and never have to worry about maintenance or fuel.
There were a few station car pilot projects in the 1990s, mostly using
Solectria Forces. In one case they used prototype Pivco Citibees, which the
participants loved. In a couple of more recent attempts, they had to give
up on EVs because none was available, and used small ICEs.
(I believe the aborted Smart EV conversion fleet that was Ebayed off a while
back was originally intended to have been another station car project.)
A further expansion of the concept involved allowing participants to take
home whatever vehicle they needed (possibly at extra cost for some of them).
Thus if you normally drove a small EV, you could borrow a pickup for
bringing lumber home that evening, or borrow a minivan for a cross country
vacation.
Unfortunately to my knowledge none of the pilot programs has ever gotten
that far, and now (what I believe is) the main advocacy organization behind
the concept has apparently stopped maintaining their website - I've gotten
only the homepage the last several times I've visited. That's a shame.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something like this.
http://www.midwestcontrol.com/catdisplay_short.php?pg=105
__________
Andre' B.
At 12:45 PM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
I know this is going to be hard to believe, but McMaster-Carr did not have
them.
I contacted SmallParts (no pix in the catalog) but haven't heard back.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Marv
> Try Mc-Master-Carr www.mcmaster.com
> or www.smallparts.com
>
> Your local hobby store might be able to help out as well, check out
> towerhobby.com to see what's out there.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Jul 7, 2005 12:36 PM
> To: EV Discussion <[email protected]>, RAV4 EV
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [RAV4-EV] Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
>
> Anybody have a source for these? I see them in throttle linkage app's all
> the time (my Chevy truck had them on the throttle-body- plastic, of
course).
>
> Looking for metal ones that fit .25" ball.
>
> Any robot guys out there?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marv
>
> _______________________________________________
> RAV4-EV mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: State of Charge calculations
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:03:54 -0700
> C = 200 Ahr N = 1.25
> I20 = 200 Ahr / 20 hr = 10 A
> Cp = (10 A)^1.25 x 20 hr = 355.6 Ahr
>
> This last equation is wrong. The units on both sides of an equation
> MUST be the same, for the equation to be correct. Here, we have Ah
> on the right side, and (A) ^1.25-h on the left.
Look, guys: Puekert's equation is empirical; it just fits an equation to
the curve you get when you actually discharge lead-acid batteries at
different currents. It's not defining some deep law of physics.
> No engineer would even write out an "equation " like that.
Of course we do. Engineers use "rule of thumb" equations all the time.
Almost all simple equations are just approximations that work "good
enough" for most cases. We only include the minor terms when precision
is needed, or when the conditions are far out of the ordinary.
The problem here is not one of approximation or dropping neglibible terms.
Saying ( as this equation does, when N=2) that 10 A-A-hrs = 10 A-hrs is not
a rule of thumb, or an approximation - it's an absurdity.
Let's try the same thing in electrical units: 10 A-A-Ohms = 10 A-Ohms.
This equation is equivalent to saying (when you simplify units) that : 10
watts = 10 volts. No "rule of thumb" or approximation here - it just
doesn't make any sense.
You're right about Peukert's equation being empirical, Lee - it's just a
curve fit ( or, a set of curve fits each with a different N value) .
That's fine - but even a "curve fit" has to have the units right, or it
just doesn't work.
This particular equation is just someone's error that ended up on the web.
Like a virus, it has spread (no one knows where it came from) - and it's
apparently hard to kill.
The correct equation exists - this just isn't it. If you find an equation
that is claimed to be Peukert's equation, and that has the same units on
both side, it MIGHT be the real one.
In fact, a quick search came up with: ( Da, da, da-da!!!!)
http://www.thermoanalytics.com/support/publications/batterymodelsdoc.html
which says: (What I've copied is between the lines of asterisks)
****************************************************************************************
1.1.1 Peukert Equation
The Peukert relationship states that the discharge current of a battery
decreases with increasing "constant current" discharge time. Specifically
(Bumby, J. R., P. H. Clarke, and I. Forster, U of Durham (UK), "Computer
modelling of the automotive energy requirements for internal combustion
engine and battery electric-powered vehicle", IEE Proceedings, Vol 132, Pt.
A, No. 5, Sept 1985, pp. 265-279):
I^n * Ti = constant
Where
* I = discharge current [amp]
* N = battery constant (n=1.35 for typical lead-acid batteries)
* Ti = time to discharge at current I [seconds]
************************************************************************************
AHHH! Now, we're getting somewhere. Notice that they do not say that I^n*T
= capacity in amp-hours. Just that it is a constant for all combinations of
I and T ( for the same battery and the same N).
The units of this constant depend on the value of N. That's fine - no
inconsistency here - there's no claim that this constant represents a
measureable, physical value. And, when you solve this equation again for
the same battery ( same N value, of course) with a different I, you get a
constant with THE SAME UNITS. WOWIE ZOWIE!! ( emphasis mine) Forgive
me; I excite easily sometimes.
Notice, also, that there is a reference here to a real Engineering Journal,
which is subject to peer review. ( No, I will not bother to verify this
paper first-hand at the local university library)
This equation makes sense and is useful. You can find the time-to-discharge
at any current by calculating this constant for the pair of values ( I and
T) that you know. You could, for example, start with the 20 hour capacity
and solve for the constant.
Then, solve the equation a second time, ( using the constant you calculated
the first time) and, for any new value of I, and you can find the new T. (
Or, for any value, of T, you can find I) .
So, if you know the 20 hour capacity, you can find the capacity ( in real
A-H !!!) for any current you like.
This equation seems likely to be correct - at least, it is possible that it
is correct. If you want, use it.
As for me, I'm back to building battery boxes. I think the one in engine
compartment has to be 34 inches wide and 45 seconds wide (approximately -
but that's close enough) , and I hope it ends up weighing less than 72
degrees. I think I'll build it out of 6 volts... : - )
Ok. I'll try to get a life.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you will find 2 readable video on my webpages ;^)
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=164
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: Venturi Fetish video
> This file doesn't seem to be working. I downloaded the one bit torrent
program on the link and it doesn't seem to be working. Under "Tracker
Status" it keeps saying "Connecting Tracker to say Start, waiting for
response". Is anyone else getting this error?
>
>
>
> Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Towards the end of this program
(at 18:49 minutes into it):
>
> http://www.mininova.org/tor/46195
>
> Amazing how quiet Ev's are after being around gas and diesel powered
> vehicles for so long..
>
> Video is very clear full screen. No need to watch it in a 4" square
window.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom, Doug and All,
--- Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks
> ---> Robin R1100
> I like this generator... read the part(link--->How
> an
> Inverter Generator Works) about not haveing to run
> it
> at 3600 rpm to get 120v ac... (The rpm is adjusted
> acording to power useage) using an inverter they can
> generate an(almost)dc voltage and convert it! Way
> smart!
>
> Put one of these on your Rav4ev spar tire rack
> (carefully mounted of course) and you could start it
> up as you leave and take advantage of rest stops and
> such and extend your range that way!... you'd have
> to
> make gas stops, holding only 1.1 gal of gas.
I'd make a gen up from one of their motors with a
DC gen if you want any extra range at all. These gens
are nice but too small, expensive for the output we
need for more than a little extra range.
Though the large one could increase your daily
range to 200/250miles or so with a RAV4 EV.
My goal is 1,000 miles per day or more, just like
any car has, even 24hrs/day with 2 drivers.
That way you only need 1 car, saving all the costs,
pollution, space of the second car. Just how much
pollution does it take to make, maintain, pay for a
spare car?
If we build EV's without limitations, then no one
will have an excuse not to buy them. That's why mine
will have AC's and generators as options.
While the gas tanks may seem small, 1.85gal for
the engine I'll use, that gives me 200 mile range on
gas alone, not including batt range. 275-300miles
with batt power included before refueling . Dam I love
EV drive eff!!!
> http://www.robinamerica.com/generators/index.lasso
>
http://www.robinamerica.com/generators/detail.lasso?mdl=R1100
>
> Length inches 19.3
> Width inches 11.6
> Height inches 17.5
> Dry Wt. lb 55lb
> Tom
> -----snip-----
> Hi Jerry and others interested in range extender
> generators,
>
> I have found the Robin Subaru EX series engines,
> such
> as the EX-21 7 HP to be ideal for this purpose and a
> good value for lightweight generators up to 9HP.
> These are steel timing chain driven OHC engines,
> rather like small motorcycle engines in that aspect.
I love your hybrid set up with your li-ion batts and
their range, you can use a smaller engine. I'll need a
slightly larger one as I want unlimited range with my
smaller 70-100 mile lead pack.
>
> They are designed to fight for market share against
> the better known Honda GX series, by offering better
> quality and performance, better cooling and
> lubrication, lower cost, lower emissions and lower
> fuel consumption. They are "drop-in replacements"
> for
> the Honda GX models, but typically offer a little
> more
> power in each case (e.g. the 7HP EX-21 at 35.3
> pounds
> replaces a 6.5HP GX200 at 36 pounds) and have a
> higher
> RPM rating as you would expect. I have a brochure
> which is 8 pages just comparing the Robin EX with
> the
> Honda GX and showing the improvements of their newer
> design, pictures of parts in each, etc. There are
> lots of nice touches, like a fuel strainer in the
> gas
> tank filler. Many of the things you might like to
> do
> or wish for, to improve a standard industrial engine
> are already done.
Yes Doug, you are right and a good example of the
new engines out there that do very well on emissions.
They have automatic timing advance standard with
good 8.3-1 compression ratio and OHV's needed for them
to pass EPA 2 emissions and the much more tough CARB 2
California emissions standards I pointed out in
earlier posts.
With some tuning on top of that with a 3 gas
analyzer, it can be made as low as cars.
Especially as they only are 1/10 or less the size,
thus put out even less volume of CO2 or other
pollutants/mile. If used with E85 or Ethanol, even
better!!
Larger engines waste more power, fuel, just idling
due to internal friction as my gens will produce to
power my EV at 65mph total! It's this part load ineff
that makes ICE's so bad eff wise.
While some small engines do put out high amounts
of polution, not all of them do but some just refuse
to see progress.
Another detail I forgot to mention before is I
used to do EPA/DOT emissions upgading on imported cars
that had to pass EPA standards before they would be
allowed out of the free trade/ custom zones where I
learned how to make engines pass the emissions tests.
I had thought telling just the science of
emissions would have been enough and how to modify the
engines to do it.
And these Subaru/Robin engines are reasonably
lightweight, just what is needed for our range
extenders.
As John Lennon said so well, 'There are no
problems, only solutions', if we bother to look
instead of just saying no, it can't be done.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:47 PM
> Subject: Engine Generator Question
>
> snip
> >
> > I'm open to an industrial engine though it
> would
> > have to be modified to lower emissions and some
> power
> > increase that would result from making it more eff
> as
> > a bonus. In fact probably what I'll do as I need
> new
> > units for this. The MC was for others who could
> use
> > used motors.
>
> snip
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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Hello Everybody,
I been charging EV high power batteries for about 30 years now. First started
out with a 300 amp outboard charger that only consist of a AC contactor, bridge
and reactor coil. Full power was charge to my 300 ah batteries which I had to
watch all the time. It was recommended only to charge these batteries to 80
percent and than shut down the charger.
This means you have to watch the DC indicators all the time as the charging was
very quick and had to watch the battery temperatures.
I modified this charger, by using SCR's in the bridge which I can control by a
trigger board or by manual control. Install a timer so it will shut down the
AC contactors after a determine amount of time.
I still had to watch the charging system very closely as where some cells may
be unbalance and cause overcharging of theses cells and may pop there Hydrocell
caps which are design to do so.
I replace the 300 AH Cells with 260 AH 6 volt T-145's which I only charge these
batteries with this charger at a maximum of 50 amps. It took 94 minutes to
charge these batteries from a starting voltage of 6.22 to 7.41 at 80%. Another
26 minutes to charge to 7.68 volts at 30 amp reducing to 5 amps.
I replace this charger with a PFC-50B which is on-board but is isolated from
the car frame in a epoxy coated fiberglass container as well as the batteries.
Its like having a outboard charger. There is no conductance between any car
body and batteries or user and the batteries unless you are standing bare naked
in a pool of water.
Using this PFC-50B charger, I still pretest the batteries for any unbalance
over .05 volts. If it not in .02 volts of each other, than I will charge that
one to bring it up. The EV has a on-board 6-12-24 charger that have plug in
test leads to jacks on the indicator control board, which I can charger any
battery separately or can charge the accessory 12 volt battery if needed.
Before each charging, I make a log of what distance I travel, how long it
takes, the maximum battery amperes, the maximum motor amperes, the voltage drop
under load and final battery voltage. Also make notes on ambiant temperture,
battery temperature, controller heat sink temperature, controller coolent
temperature, maximum speed of EV, how many stops and starts, and what overall
gear ratio's I'am in.
I can read most of this data of my array of instruments panels and read the
precharging and charging data which I charge this EV only once a week.
Now when I charge the same set of batteries with the PFC-50B, it is a
completely different story, not as long winded as the above.
After driving the same exact distance over the same course at the same ambiant
temperature the results of the PFC-50B charging is:
>From a starting voltage of 6.29 volts to 7.40 volts in 28 minutes at 50 amps.
>From 7.40 to 7.50 volts at 41 amps to 18 amps in 32 minutes.
Fantastic!!!!
This is a total time of 60 minutes for 4 days of driving. The batteries do not
heat up at all in this very short time. May be because a higher amp hour
battery can take the charging better than a lower amp hour battery.
When using the PFC-50B charger, I set a watch timer to note the estimate time
when the batteries get to 7.4 volts so I can check the battery voltage, ampere,
and temperature at that time while its going into timing charging.
I cannot bring it to myself to just SET IT and FORGET IT. I try, but I just
got to keep checking it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John Wayland<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
Hello to All,
It's a good thing, when dedicated EVers step up, put their money on the line,
and provide
the rest of us with terrific EV products that improve things. Rich and Joe
have done just
that with their high quality, reliable, affordable, and powerful PFC charger
line. The
recent flurry of negative posts about these fine chargers has me concerned,
because in my
opinion, for the money there 'is' no better charger. Are they perfect? No,
but darn close.
They are feature packed, and are always being improved...witness the step up
from PFC20,
to the PFC30, and the new water cooled 40L models, the mighty PFC50, and now
the BIG stuff
these guys are working on. People have asked for isolation....it's being
made. Now, we
hear of Bill's thermal runaway problem, and there's been an active and open
dialog.
Rich and Joe's fast acting chargers have completely changed the way I can use
my short
range daily street EV, Blue Meanie, because with its hotrodded PFC20 cranking
out on the
edge of 30 amps, it only takes 45 minutes - one hour or so to fill the car up
again. At
the track, my PFC30 has eliminated the need for me to use dump charging, and
when
supporting area EVers or Rich himself show up with a brawny PFC50, geesh,
charging the
race car between quarter mile blasts is a piece of cake...if only my 10 kw
generator could
keep up! The quality of construction is top notch, the tech support is
instantaneous and
courteous, and the versatility of going from a 120 volt charging to a 240
charging with a
few easily assembled adapters and the use of the 'AMPS' knob, is super
convenient and adds
flexibility to charging your EV.
I'm a bit worn down hearing the negative, so let's hear from the hundreds of
satisfied
others who like me, absolutely love their PFC chargers. I've written over and
over about
how these Manzanita Micro chargers have revolutionized the way I can use my
EVs, so I'd
like to hear from all those other happy customers out there...what's your
story?
See Ya....John Wayland
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Smatrs are sandwiched design, built that way too.
I have links to the crach testing them.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Stu or Jan wrote:
Should small or micro EV's be built on a roll cage chassis for safety?
Has anyone made one?
The Tango is built like that:
"Because safety is such a concern for small cars in particular, we
have designed the Tango around a roll cage that meets or exceeds both
SCCA and NHRA regulations."
http://www.commutercars.com/intro.html
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This has beed done with aluminum pipe (steel will work too).
But it doesn't have to be a pipe - a 4 flat plates forming
"square pipe" will do it too.
Victor
David Dymaxion wrote:
Here's my basic idea: Use steel and weld.
More details: 3/8 inch steel (thick enough or too thick?)
Bend a steel sheet into a circle and weld (i.e. make a short steel
pipe), to use as a spacer.
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Guys,
How can 10 Amp-Amp-hours = 10 Amp-hours ? ( That's what happens if N=2
in that equation) Do you think that is correct?? Is it possible that
10 sq-inches = 10 inches ?? How many chickens equals 20 degrees
Faranheit ?
Raising a value to the power may or may not raise units into the
same power (which makes no sense unless the power is integer).
If I have voltage squarer circuit, I feed 2V in it, i get 4V out.
I feed 3V i get 9V out. It is Vout=Vin^2, bit volts as units
are not squared, expression on the right *does not* get V*V or V^2 unit.
You attach a value afte you do you math of raising a number
in ulitless power.
I may be wrong, but I think this is the source of eror here.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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David Roden wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 at 21:03, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I am not sure this is really off topic, we all must contend with the
best way to do the occasional 240 mile trip.
If it's only 2-3 times a year, why not rent or borrow an ICE for those days?
Because people is more individulaistic than practical. A car
has to be MINE, I possess it.
People rent cars or hire taxis if they have no other choice - on trips,
emergency etc, or owning is prohibitively expensive.
Everything else must be in comfort of ownership It is *convenient*
to have a vehicle sitting ready for you at any time.
Doesn't matter that it is sitting doing nothing 364 days of a year
if one can easily afford it.
Like some tools - people may need to lift heally heavy
things 2-3 times per year, but no one rents those folding
hydrolic $200 joists on small metal wheels- every one owns it.
Why not cars.
I believe this is the main reason public transportation is
in so pathetic state here - because word "public" has bad taste
and associations (not nesessairly related to the transportation).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If I have voltage squarer circuit, I feed 2V in it, i get 4V
> out. I feed 3V i get 9V out. It is Vout=Vin^2, bit volts as
> units are not squared, expression on the right *does not* get
> V*V or V^2 unit.
But, have you ever seen a voltage squarer circuit? ;^> Voltage doubler,
tripler, etc. sure, but these are all volts + volts types of things, not
volts * volts.
> You attach a value afte you do you math of raising a number
> in ulitless power.
>
> I may be wrong, but I think this is the source of eror here.
No, I think Pillip is correct in his analysis. Your reasoning would
have us multiply length * width (both in mm) and end up with the area of
a square in mm (a linear measure) rather than mm^2 (since length =
width, so area = length ^ 2 = length * length).
What may actually be the error is the CECO document's author assigning
the units of Ah to the right hand side of the questionable equation.
The equation itself is correct, but the value it computes is supposed to
be a constant, not necessarily one with units of Ah. Mistakenly
assuming that the equation I^n*Ti yields a value with units of Ah then
leads one to try to use that value in calculations that are in units of
Ah and may result in errors.
However, the proof is in the pudding. Now that Peukert's equation
without the questionable units manipulation has been identified it
should be a simple matter for someone to plug both versions into a
spreadsheet and compare the output. If both versions yield similar
results then questionable as the units manipulation may be, that
equation may still have practical value.
> I^n * Ti = constant
> Where
>
> * I = discharge current [amp]
> * N = battery constant (n=1.35 for typical lead-acid batteries)
> * Ti = time to discharge at current I [seconds]
or,
C1 = C2 * (I2/I1)^(n-1)
Where:
C1 = capacity at discharge rate I1
C2 = capacity at discharge rate I2
n = Peukert exponent (= "N = battery constant", from above)
which also avoids the questionable units manipulation by applying the
Peukert exponent to the dimensionless ratio of I2 to I1.
Cheers,
Roger.
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