EV Digest 4487
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Old motor is out!
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Source For Miniature Ball-Joints/Ball-Socket?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: LiIon vs LiPoly
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) station cars, EV + Gen vs efficient ICE for long trips
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Taper lock hub
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT: Another idea that probably won't work
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?EAA Pic Nic.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Engine Generator Question
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) More Madness!!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Thermal runaway (was: RE: Another PFC Caution?)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine,
Generator Eff ...
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Taper lock hub
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Engine Generator Question
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: State of Charge calculations
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine, Generator
Eff ...
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Engine Generator Question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Engine Generator Question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well my old ICE is out! Now to start reversing the process! That was fun!
New photos of the progress on my Blog.
Mark Ward
"ElectroSaab"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
McMaster sells them in plastic, steel, and stainless, but only to fit
10mm, 13mm, or 16mm ball studs, not the 1/4" diameter ball that Marvin
is looking for. See pg 1065 of the McMaster (online) catalog.
cheers,
Andrew
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Marvin Campbell wrote:
Exactly. Except I already have the stud in the actuator-arm. The part I
really need is the socket.
Like the part that is on the end of the shocks used for trunks, hoods
and hatchbacks?
http://www.rsjparts.com/catalog/images/hatchshock2.jpg
I've never seen a separate fitting like that for sale.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So what did those batteries cost?
the 12 volt config at 40 AHR was 600.00
And where can you
> buy them?
Directly from Valence technology, Mark kohler, Austin
tx they are on the net with phone numbers but i don't
have here...work...just try www.valencetechnology.com
>
> Thanks,
> Jake Oshins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of keith vansickle
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: LiIon vs LiPoly
>
>
> Hi don and victor and all
> I too am interested in the LI technology I have
> purchased a 48 volt
> 40AHR pack consisting of 4 12v Valence Technology
> Saphion U-charge
> batts/charger and BMS. As of this writing I have
> only recieved one of
> the batts and the charger when I get the other three
> batts, the bms and
> the vehicle to use them in next week---hope hope ???
> I will beging tests
> on the whole pack and let the group know what I find
> out. I have a lot
> of confidence in what i have read but one can never
> be sure untill they
> have them in a vehicle and on the road Keith
>
>
> > I'd like to hear coments from others too. Or
> everyone expects to get
> > free data at my expense? :-) If you want to know
> how a battery
> > performs, buy a sample and test it. I do. Asking
> on the web is easy,
> > but the answer
> > may worth nothing too, you know.
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great
> items.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: OT: Another idea that probably won't work
On 6 Jul 2005 at 21:03, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I am not sure this is really off topic, we all must contend with the
best way to do the occasional 240 mile trip.
If it's only 2-3 times a year, why not rent or borrow an ICE for those
days?
What we really need, gang, is station cars. Unfortunately stncar.com
seems
to be defunct, which isn't a good sign.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
I can see merit in both Jerry's and David's points of views. Thanks to a
good enough credit rating and the willingness to put "too much money" into
EVs and experimentation, good ideas from EVDL and some time and tinkering
invested, I am living with and testing out both of these approaches at once
to some extent. I have 2 EVs with generators that are relatively light
weight and efficient, due in part to their small size and li ion batteries.
They are not as efficient and light weight as what Jerry is building, but
good enough to prove the practicality and potential. Jerry is working to
take the lightweight composite "designed to be an EV" from almost
non-existant to a practical and available stage. The more perfected, the
better it will work for more people for more of their trips. And the cost
is looking very affordable.
We also have a 2005 Prius since October 2004. This gets better gas
mileage than my 250cc single cylinder motorbike, is quiet and comfortable
and can transport 5 people and stuff. It has the potential to be upgraded
to a plug-in hybrid that can do all the driving to work and local trips as
an EV and longer trips such as 100 to 150 miles with less gasoline
consumption than my EV + generator. Now here's a great concept! To be
honest, I have no hope of being able to build an "EV + generator" vehicle,
conversion style, as smooth and quiet and easy to use and powerful and low
emissions and reliable and dealer serviceable as the Prius. It is probably
a good thing the 2004 Prius and plug-in hybrid approach came out after I was
already into EV improvement, generator construction and experimenting. That
way, I didn't miss out on the fun and I have even more respect and
appreciation of the Prius for what it is and what it can become.
Within a family, having 2 vehicles, 1 a low cost very efficient EV with
generator availability, and the other a very efficient ICE but preferably a
plug-in hybrid , can work well and not consume too much resources for the
number of users and vehicle lifetimes. These 2 vehicles are each best for
particular driving patterns/ranges but can do each other's jobs also when
needed, while reducing fuel use and pollution greatly over present vehicles.
Another option would be renting the plug-in hybrid if not needed too often,
if they become available from rental companies. (Lets hope!)
The use of an EV to go to the train station, then get on the electric train
into downtown Montreal, then use the electric Metro (subway) to finish the
trip to work if needed, all powered by Hydro, is a nice combination of
efficient & clean transport for those living and working in suitable
locations.
Best Regards,
Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, and others,
I've decided that I am going to get the car... That is if I can get it
home!!!
I will have to find someone with a car dolly, or trailer. Maybe Uhaul has
something? I have had bad experiences with towing with a chain or rope!!
And this car hasn't moved for about 2 years, so good chance a break line
will break!!!
I'm not sure the weight, yet. I will probably take it to a weigh station
(scrap yard, or junk yard) after I get all the ICE parts out.
Range and Speed? I'm hoping for 20 miles minimum for range( 8 miles to
work, 8 miles back, and 4 extra just in case), and if it can do 55-60mph,
that would be great, but 45mph will do what I need. Most of my to-work
commute is through town anyway (35mph limit). Do you folks find that the
range is better at a steady 65mph (highway), or a stop and go 35mph (city)?
I will be perusing the evalbum, for something similar to this, and askin
many questions! So thank you all in advance for all the help. I'm looking
forward to that EVGrin that you all talk about!
Oh, and Bob, I may be coming for that motor soon!!! (That is if someone
hasn't beaten me to it!)I'm working on selling one of my gassers, and the
proceeds are earmarked for this project. (87 1/2 ton Chevy 4x4 PU, if
anybody is interested ;))
Best,
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com / www.cmswebhosting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Its always good to hear sombody is going to do a conversion ,
that is has a standard tranny is good , do you know the weight on it , ?
What are you looking for it to do , range and speed ?
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am continuing on with my conversion and the next step is to make the
adapter plate.
I am looking for the taper lock hub I've been reading about.
All I can find are "keyless bushings" which maybe the correct part
however they do not have a flange to bolt the flywheel to. From the
description in the catalog they are designed to fit inside the pulley or
gear that is being used.
Is there a flanged type strong enough to survive the torque loads of my
11 inch motor, and where might I find one.
Mike G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good luck with your project Chris.
I used a tow strap (2 inch type) from Harbor Freight and it pulled my 2900lb
Saab perfectly with my neighbor's pickup and me putting on the brakes. No
need to rent anything and no big problem at all. I was a little nervous
about not having brake lights, so you might want to put a good battery in so
you can use the emergency flashers. Hindsight as they say.. I did have a
couple of walkie talkies so we could talk to each other. Saved me a $60 tow
at least.
Mark Ward
"ElectroSaab"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Steve, and others,
I've decided that I am going to get the car... That is if I can get it
home!!!
I will have to find someone with a car dolly, or trailer. Maybe Uhaul has
something? I have had bad experiences with towing with a chain or rope!!
And this car hasn't moved for about 2 years, so good chance a break line
will break!!!
I'm not sure the weight, yet. I will probably take it to a weigh station
(scrap yard, or junk yard) after I get all the ICE parts out.
Range and Speed? I'm hoping for 20 miles minimum for range( 8 miles to
work, 8 miles back, and 4 extra just in case), and if it can do 55-60mph,
that would be great, but 45mph will do what I need. Most of my to-work
commute is through town anyway (35mph limit). Do you folks find that the
range is better at a steady 65mph (highway), or a stop and go 35mph
(city)?
I will be perusing the evalbum, for something similar to this, and askin
many questions! So thank you all in advance for all the help. I'm
looking
forward to that EVGrin that you all talk about!
Oh, and Bob, I may be coming for that motor soon!!! (That is if someone
hasn't beaten me to it!)I'm working on selling one of my gassers, and the
proceeds are earmarked for this project. (87 1/2 ton Chevy 4x4 PU, if
anybody is interested ;))
Best,
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com / www.cmswebhosting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Its always good to hear sombody is going to do a conversion ,
that is has a standard tranny is good , do you know the weight on it , ?
What are you looking for it to do , range and speed ?
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Seeley wrote:
> Maybe Uhaul has something?
This:
http://www.uhaul.com/guide/?equipment=autotransport
or this:
http://www.uhaul.com/guide/?equipment=towdolly
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:20:10 -0400, "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On 6 Jul 2005 at 21:03, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
>> I am not sure this is really off topic, we all must contend with the
>> best way to do the occasional 240 mile trip.
>
>If it's only 2-3 times a year, why not rent or borrow an ICE for those days?
>
>What we really need, gang, is station cars. Unfortunately stncar.com seems
>to be defunct, which isn't a good sign.
>
>The idea grew out of the need for commuter parking at train stations. The
>original thought was that you'd have a small electric commuter based at the
>train station, which would by its size increase parking capacity.
The common fallacy with all these otherwise good ideas is the concept
that anyone outside any of the cesspool megacities is going to drive
to a station, unload all his goodies, lug 'em to a train, have to bump
elbows with bums, 'bangers and other effluvia, lug the stuff off at
the other end and then either walk or drive another vehicle the rest
of his way to his destination. Just ain't gonna happen.
Something that would have a much closer chance of being accepted is a
station car setup whereby the standardized electric car is driven onto
an autonomous piggy-back rail car that might hold 8 or 10 e-cars.
When the car fills up, it takes off. Instead of trying to accommodate
every type of car on the market, only cars built to a tight
dimensional spec would be accepted. This standardized dimensional
spec would also permit very dense parking at destinations, manual or
automated.
The commuter would indicate which station he wants off at via a
variety of systems, probably the simplest would be a touch screen map
outside each window or on the dashboard. The car pauses at the
station and he drives off. If the e-car charges while on the rail
car, so much the better.
This scheme would preserve the autonomy, privacy and convenience of
portal-to-portal private transportation AND bring the economy of scale
of mass transit.
Of course, nothing like this will ever happen because to the
collectivists who seem to control mass transit agencies, personal
autonomy is an anathema to be avoided at all costs.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations! Now the fun begins.
I have a generic conversion todo list on my web site which might help (along
with all the other info) http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_ToDo.html
The curb weight of a 92 Protege is listed from 2359 to 2417 lbs.
If you get some other specs (tire size, gear ratios, Cd), you can put this
into UVE's calculator to help with determining performance.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/evcalc.html
good luck, keep us posted.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Seeley
Sent: July 7, 2005 7:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Steve, and others,
I've decided that I am going to get the car... That is if I can get it
home!!!
I will have to find someone with a car dolly, or trailer. Maybe Uhaul has
something? I have had bad experiences with towing with a chain or rope!!
And this car hasn't moved for about 2 years, so good chance a break line
will break!!!
I'm not sure the weight, yet. I will probably take it to a weigh station
(scrap yard, or junk yard) after I get all the ICE parts out.
Range and Speed? I'm hoping for 20 miles minimum for range( 8 miles to
work, 8 miles back, and 4 extra just in case), and if it can do 55-60mph,
that would be great, but 45mph will do what I need. Most of my to-work
commute is through town anyway (35mph limit). Do you folks find that the
range is better at a steady 65mph (highway), or a stop and go 35mph (city)?
I will be perusing the evalbum, for something similar to this, and askin
many questions! So thank you all in advance for all the help. I'm looking
forward to that EVGrin that you all talk about!
Oh, and Bob, I may be coming for that motor soon!!! (That is if someone
hasn't beaten me to it!)I'm working on selling one of my gassers, and the
proceeds are earmarked for this project. (87 1/2 ton Chevy 4x4 PU, if
anybody is interested ;))
Best,
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com / www.cmswebhosting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Its always good to hear sombody is going to do a conversion , that is has a
standard tranny is good , do you know the weight on it , ?
What are you looking for it to do , range and speed ?
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:11 PM
Subject: RE: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
> forward to that EVGrin that you all talk about!
>
> Oh, and Bob, I may be coming for that motor soon!!! (That is if someone
> hasn't beaten me to it!)I'm working on selling one of my gassers, and the
Hi Chris;
Motor is still here sleeping piecefully in my garage, waiting to give ya
that EV grin. Whydontya come down this Sat, to our EAA Picnic a yearly
EVent, and anybody else in the areas. Rain or shine, hava big house.
See all of ya!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:26:16 -0700 (PDT), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd make a gen up from one of their motors with a
>DC gen if you want any extra range at all. These gens
>are nice but too small, expensive for the output we
>need for more than a little extra range.
> Though the large one could increase your daily
>range to 200/250miles or so with a RAV4 EV.
> My goal is 1,000 miles per day or more, just like
>any car has, even 24hrs/day with 2 drivers.
Don't you think that's getting a little silly? Anyone you know
(outside of a Cannonball Baker rally driver, perhaps) ever actually
driven 1000 miles in a day?
If the car can run on as little a 600 wh/mile at 60 mph (can any
currently available EV actually run that efficiently over the long
term in traffic and dealing with elevations?), you're looking at a
power requirement of 36kw. If you're going to insist on driving for
many hours at that rate, then you're well up into either a very heavy
conventional generator or gas turbine range. Gas turbines are
available in that power range but they're quite expensive and unless
one buys a really expensive microturbine, not nearly as efficient as a
modern gas or diesel car engine.
Even stopping for 30 minutes every hour for rest and recharge only
reduces the power requirement to 24kw. And that assumes there are
batteries that can take that kind of charge/discharge rate
continuously.
> That way you only need 1 car, saving all the costs,
>pollution, space of the second car. Just how much
>pollution does it take to make, maintain, pay for a
>spare car?
Oh, I suppose that depends on which variety of alternate reality you
believe in. If your alternate reality says that building that spare
car causes any "pollution", or at least any more than building a
generator or turbine, then the obvious solution is to either rent or
co-op a pool car for long trips.
> If we build EV's without limitations, then no one
>will have an excuse not to buy them. That's why mine
>will have AC's and generators as options.
> While the gas tanks may seem small, 1.85gal for
>the engine I'll use, that gives me 200 mile range on
>gas alone, not including batt range. 275-300miles
>with batt power included before refueling . Dam I love
>EV drive eff!!!
Why not just buy a hybrid, pile the trunk or rear spaces full of
batteries, hire someone to hack the PCM to manage the extra batteries
and go with that? Probably less money in the long run and certainly
less tailpipe emissions. Not to mention better reliability. That way
you could putter around town on batteries and use the engine on your
24hr iron butt marathons.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
Again, cringing at the news reports. The madness continues. Bonbings in
London. You UK EVer's lets hear it. You're OK? My heart and condolences go
out to the Good Folks in England. Sorta at a loss for words, but it isn't
the end of it, I fear.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can I ask a couple of questions with out getting Branded any more Bill??
First do you have any clue what your pack temp got to????
The highest I witnessed was 80 C.
What temp do you consider to be "in thermal runaway"?
The charger should shut down at anything above 45 C.
I use 110 to 120 F
for AGM lead Acid, but this is a rough data point.
I could hack a MK2B Reg to lock off the charger at just about any temp, but
it's a 1/4 watt toss type hack using the heatsink temp channel. This would
at least stop the show, and allow things to cool down.
I would also allow the timer to time out locking the charger off until
supervision returns.
Sounds perfect. Thanks in advance!
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David and All,
What about when I need to pull a trailer to a place with no outlet, like
the dump? With my on-board and off-board chargers and a 50A 14-50 outlet
available I can do most of my driving, but my 10kW genny running a LPG
powered Honda engine can buy me the extra range I sometimes need. Not to
mention that it can be used by both of our EV's with my off-board
FrankenLester(s) (the RX-7 uses a 144V and 48V). Should I own a second
truck for those occasional longer trips (maintain and insure it, etc.,
which could be a bio-diesel powered buggy, but which would be cleaner)? If
I could just put a hitch on the wife's Prius...
BB
>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:16:01 -0400
<snipage>
>Better yet, leave the EV at home, and drive a well-maintained, newer ICE for
>the long trips.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want to buy a ready made solution:
<http://www.electroauto.com>. Mine looks well designed, and works
great on some test spin-ups. Even though I am making my adapter
plates, I chose to buy the taperlock hub since it is a high speed
part.
<http://www.grassrootsev.com> has a video that shows using a
taperlock pulley as a starting point. Machining is required, but the
video shows clever use of the motor itself as a lathe.
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am continuing on with my conversion and the next step is to make
> the
> adapter plate.
> I am looking for the taper lock hub I've been reading about.
> All I can find are "keyless bushings" which maybe the correct part
> however they do not have a flange to bolt the flywheel to. From the
>
> description in the catalog they are designed to fit inside the
> pulley or
> gear that is being used.
> Is there a flanged type strong enough to survive the torque loads
> of my
> 11 inch motor, and where might I find one.
> Mike G.
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:26:16 -0700 (PDT), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd make a gen up from one of their motors with a
>DC gen if you want any extra range at all. These gens
>are nice but too small, expensive for the output we
>need for more than a little extra range.
> Though the large one could increase your daily
>range to 200/250miles or so with a RAV4 EV.
This has been done many times using the standard RAV4 charger with a 5 hr
recharge time.
George S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <
. The
recent flurry of negative posts about these fine chargers has me
concerned, because in my
opinion, for the money there 'is' no better charger.
negative post ? I think there just talking about ways not to use the charger
, .
Rich and Joe's fast acting chargers have completely changed the way I can
use my short
range daily street EV, Blue Meanie,
With my work truck , I'm plugging into all kinds of outlets at different
peoples houses through the day , , I know what there braker's can handle and
turn the knob to suck out the max amount of power ( which is about %20 more
that what I could pull with my old bad boy chargers) then go to work, . My
PFC 30 keeps pulling a steady flow from there outlets and don't back off
till it hits the trip voltage.
! The quality of construction is top notch, the tech support is
instantaneous and
courteous, and the versatility of going from a 120 volt charging to a 240
charging with a
few easily assembled adapters and the use of the 'AMPS' knob, is super
convenient and adds
flexibility to charging your EV.
And you can set it to any voltage , ( under 400v) so adding batteries or
going for 6 to 8v or 12v is no problem , just turn the screw. Being able to
use it to charge any size pack is a real plus .
I'm a bit worn down hearing the negative, so let's hear from the hundreds
of satisfied
others who like me, absolutely love their PFC chargers.
Well I love my PFC charger , but there are thing you shouldn't do with one ,
Like use it to stand on , . Rich might want to add a page to the charger
manual called . " Things people have done to my chargers that it didn't
like " .
Oh ya another thing , you can use some of the PFC's with dc , I have pumped
juice form one car to another with my pfc20 . While I'm pulling amp form the
one I can go around and check the voltage on each battery in the pack and
find any weak batteries. Try doing that while driving down the raod.:-)
, so I'd
like to hear from all those other happy customers out there...what's your
story?
I loaned one of my ev's to the guitar player in this group I play in , When
I got to the gig he had pretty much run it empty and still had 10 miles to
go to get home , . I have a cord with a ac plug on one end and the Anderson
dc plug on the other that I use when doing the above. For some reason before
leaving for the gig I put it in my truck. Well it sure came in handy that
day . We were playing at a restaurant that had no outlets out side . We
parked side by side and I dumped 30 ah into his , 120v pick up form my 150 v
pick up . I set the amp knob for 10amp , . Of course Larry the guitar player
had to tell everybody about the EV he was driving and went on and on about
how great it was , he might not have been so happy if he ran out of juice on
the way home. . Rich's PFC sure came in handy that day.
Steve Clunn . .
See Ya....John Wayland
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My PFC30 makes it practical to use the public charging stations in So Cal.
During EVS20 I drove just under 100 miles round trip using the PFC30 with
public chargers.
George S.
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seeley" <>
Range and Speed? I'm hoping for 20 miles minimum for range( 8 miles to
work, 8 miles back, and 4 extra just in case), and if it can do 55-60mph,
that would be great, but 45mph will do what I need. Most of my to-work
commute is through town anyway (35mph limit).
this will be pretty easy to get that .
Do you folks find that the
range is better at a steady 65mph (highway), or a stop and go 35mph
(city)?
alot depends on how you do the stop and go , for me 55 uses about 1/3 less
amps as 65 mph in my work truck ,
I will be perusing the evalbum, for something similar to this, and askin
many questions! So thank you all in advance for all the help.
what are your plans for motor , controller , batteries , ect. ?
Oh, and Bob, I may be coming for that motor soon!!!
getting the motor first is a good idea , you can do alot with the motor ,
get it in the car ect. ,
steve clunn
(That is if someone
hasn't beaten me to it!)I'm working on selling one of my gassers, and the
proceeds are earmarked for this project. (87 1/2 ton Chevy 4x4 PU, if
anybody is interested ;))
Best,
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com / www.cmswebhosting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I'm getting closer! (found a donor car) Comments?
Its always good to hear sombody is going to do a conversion ,
that is has a standard tranny is good , do you know the weight on it , ?
What are you looking for it to do , range and speed ?
steve clunn
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And so we agree with this:
Io^n * To = Cp ; Cp being the Peukert constant (or capacity), To in
hours, Io in amps
Interestingly, if you look at the discharge time for a 1amp discharge:
Cp = To * Io^n
= To * 1^n
= To * 1
= To amp-hours
~ To * Io ; for currents near 1amp.
You see that Cp = To for 1amp discharge, since 1^whatever = 1.
Thus, Cp represents the expected capacity of any given fully charged healthy
battery for 1amp discharge, should Peukert's equation provide a sufficient
model.
So, for example, a T-105 has roughly 225ah rated capacity at 20-hour
discharge rate, i.e. at 11.25amps,
Cp = 20 * 11.25^1.24 = 402.2 amp-hours (capacity of a T-105 battery at
1amp
discharge rate)
I.E. at 1amp discharge rate, we'd expect a T-105 battery to have about a
capacity equal to 402amp-hours, or would deliver the 1amp for 402hours
before running out of juice.
Just another way to think about it...
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
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Actually, I think most of them just meet the minimum standards.
Honda was announcing
that they started meeting 2007 standards for motorcycles last year.
That's still
several times the pollution of a car.
A 1.0L motor from a Metro is about 116 pounds all up. If you're only
pulling
15-20kW out of it, I don't see why you can't get a few thousand hours
out of it with
only a little maintenance. It already meets automotive standards, so
at the very worst,
you're polluting at the same rate as driving an ICE car.
Tim
On Jul 6, 2005, at 7:56 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 6, 2005 4:44:55 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for
engine, Generator Eff ...
Hi David, Evan and All,
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 7/6/05, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 at 11:00, Evan Tuer wrote:
If the
polluting range extender is used for only 1 or
2% of the EV's annual
mileage, does this totally cancel out the rest
of the time?
Maybe, but how many people really use the ICE that
little? There are some,
and I salute them, but let's look at a more
typical driver.
Those are MINIMIUM standards, most do much
better than that.
What a small engine puts out pollution wise
depends on many factors.
A major thing is to tune it up with a 3 gas
analyzer so it's running the correct fuel mixture. One
could buy an O sensor and hook it up to a meter to but
I'm not exactly sure how to read it. These analyzers
are fairly cheap now or you can go to a shop that has
one and can cut unburned HC, NOx by 90% or more
depending on what you start with.
Nox can be greatly reduced by water injection
if that's a problem but rarely is on these motors as
it comes from hot, lean mixtures which are not normal.
Water cooling helps this too keeping head temps even.
Only use OHV engines!!!
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On 7 Jul 2005 at 12:26, jerry dycus wrote:
> They have automatic timing advance standard with
> good 8.3-1 compression ratio and OHV's ...
> With some tuning on top of that with a 3 gas
> analyzer, it can be made as low as cars.
Yep, those are proven techniques. They're the very ones that Detroit and
Tokyo used to meet EPA standards - for 1973.
> Especially as they only are 1/10 or less the size,
> thus put out even less volume of CO2 or other
> pollutants/mile.
In automotive applications, smaller engines usually release less CO2 per
mile - as long as they burn less fuel per mile, a relationship that isn't
necessarily 100% linear.
Other emissions don't always scale with engine size as one might expect.
For example, all other things being equal, a small engine working hard
typically emits more NOx than a large one loafing along, sometimes a LOT
more. A 1988 Ford test of some of their prototype flex-fuel engines had an
Escort emitting NOx at the rate of 100mg/mi, and a Crown Vic at 10-15 mg/mi.
(Must have been that bigger engine in the Escort. ;-)
(http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~rael/Climatic_Change.pdf)
Of course you can control NOx with a 3-way catalytic converter. But then
you have to devote space to the cat, and it requires precise engine control -
meaning you need a microprocessor, just as the automakers discovered 25
years ago.
> If used with E85 or Ethanol, even better!!
Ethanol is not a cure-all. It reduces CO but may actually increase other
emissions, including some unregulated compounds. A Denver evaluation of E10
fuel (oxygenated gasoline) indicated that compared to 100% gasoline it would
yield a 13% decrease for CO, a 5% increase for NOx, an 11% decrease for
benzene, a 6% decrease for 1,3-butadiene, a 19% increase for formaldehyde,
and a 160% increase for acetaldehyde.
(http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~landerso/97rp13905.htm)
Ethanol sounds like a good renewable fuel, but its production requires
considerable petroleum fuel and petrochemical fertilizer input. Estimates
of corn ethanol's energy value vary from 29% ^below^ input to 34% above. To
some extent this depends on where the production and processing are carried
out; for example, Canadian production is less efficient than US production.
(http://www.worldofmolecules.com/fuels/ethanol.htm)
(http://www.tc.gc.ca/programmes/environnement/changementclimatique/docs/ETOH-
FNL-RPTAug30-1999.htm)
I might also point out that once consumption of feedstock for fuels extends
beyond farm surplus, we are into the realm in which fueling vehicles can
literally take food out of mouths. Of course alcohol can be produced from
petroleum, but then you're right back where you started from.
This is all I'm going to say on this matter. This discussion is threatening
to wander off topic and is generating too much acrimony.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: PFC Chargers...Let's hear the Positive Side!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Wayland" <
>
>
> . The
> > recent flurry of negative posts about these fine chargers has me
> > concerned, because in my
> > opinion, for the money there 'is' no better charger.
>
> negative post ? I think there just talking about ways not to use the
charger
>
> With my work truck , I'm plugging into all kinds of outlets at different
> peoples houses through the day , , I know what there braker's can handle
and
> turn the knob to suck out the max amount of power ( which is about %20
more
> that what I could pull with my old bad boy chargers) then go to work, . My
> PFC 30 keeps pulling a steady flow from there outlets and don't back off
> till it hits the trip voltage.
>
>
> ! The quality of construction is top notch, the tech support is
> instantaneous and
> > courteous, and the versatility of going from a 120 volt charging to a
240
> > charging with a
> > few easily assembled adapters and the use of the 'AMPS' knob, is super
> > convenient and adds
> > flexibility to charging your EV.
> >
Hi EVerybody;
That pretty well sez it, above. Yeah an on board Amp meter would be
nice on the pfc -20, but I'm knit picking. I can drive home from the Train@
about 7pm and plugitin and the car is charged by the time I go to bed. After
a 26 mile up hill run, mostly at Turnpike speeds 60 plus. Plug it into ether
120 0r 240. I never realized that it would run on DC, too?? Duz it care
about polarity? I mean on the ac or imput side? And I can charge the Elec
trac or anything else, without smoking any outlets and cords! That's a
biggie from a confermed Bad Boy guy.
Oh I COULD live without my PFC-20, but why would I want to? I feel that
we need to suport Manzanita Micro, as Rich is working on other cool stuff.
Fast charging is where it's at, for EV's anyhow. The infrastructure is in
place, or electricity is common in USA and Canada, dare I say most of the
livable World? Maximizing charging efficiency is where it's at, nowadaze.
This has to be part of the EB Evolution=revolution.
Seeya Sat?
Bob
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--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Don't you think that's getting a little silly? Anyone you know
> (outside of a Cannonball Baker rally driver, perhaps) ever actually
> driven 1000 miles in a day?
>
I'm very interested in this and I can think of lot's of non-silly reasons. I'm
planning on a 50
mile range for my car. It's primary job will be as a daily commuter. I'll be
keeping the pickup
for dump runs, hauling firewood, etc.
But I can think of plenty of uses for the range trailer. My parents are 8 hours
away, I'd love to
be able to get there. My friend lives an hour away, I might be able to get
there, but then I'd
have to wait while I charged it up before I could show off. And I'd have to
make sure it's fully
charged before trying to get home. This years Tour de Sol was about 4 hours
from here. The Boston
area has plenty of events, 2-3 hours away. Power of DC was 6.5 hours from here
and that trip cost
me $100 in gas without dragging a trailer. I backpack every year in the White
Mountains, 5 hours
away. Limerock Park (racetrack) is a little over an hour of hilly driving from
here. I'd hate to
have to buy a car trailer and then haul the EV everywhere I wanted to go. And a
car trailer is not
cheap! Think of the nice range extender could you build for the price of a car
trailer.
For my daily commute, I can do everything I need without any range extenders.
But I could use one
almost every month. I also plan on building an EV for my wife. With two EVs in
the family, what
are the chances that one of us forgets to watch the emeter and runs out of
juice too far from
home. And not next to a plug. We've all run out of gas at least once, right?
Well, drag that
trailer to where the car died, hook it up and drive away. No waiting.
Just my view, not trying to start a war.
Dave Cover
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Plug it into ether
120 0r 240. I never realized that it would run on DC, too?? Duz it care
about polarity? I mean on the ac or imput side?
I believe just the stock 20's and stock 50's not anything that is buck
inhanced.
I feel that
we need to suport Manzanita Micro, as Rich is working on other cool stuff.
Fast charging is where it's at, for EV's anyhow.
yep , its a good place to spend your money .
.
Seeya Sat?
Maybe when Jerry gets the first freedom car going , we'll have a ev rally up
there , I'll put a gen in the back of the pu and drive up there , oops ,
that's another thing pfc's are good for , getting the most out of your gen .
steve clunn
Bob
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