EV Digest 4595
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Review My Plans?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Data Logger
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Alltrax Controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Northwest burger chain switches to pure wind power
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Here's a thought
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Alltrax Controller Palm pilot data logger exists
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Here's a thought
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) 16,000 miles -- no gasoline
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What motor?
by Pascal Ruyter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What motor?
by Pascal Ruyter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Alltrax Controller
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: e-meter and DC/DC - another possible part
by "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) S10 Adaptor plate - measurements
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What is CCDWE / CDWE?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EV ceramic heater
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV of the past
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Help me decide!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: e-meter DC/DC - underpowered?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget the Ford Ranger EV the EV1, the EV-RAV4- and other comerial built
EV's. All had electric Motor driven AC units.
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Danny Miller wrote:
> What car has made an all-electric A/C? I have never heard of this. A
> LOT of electricity is required.
The only one I know of is the Toyota Prius. It has an electric motor
driving a compressor, instead of driving the compressor from the ICE.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
motor Volt = speed so in a way it mesure speed :^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: Data Logger
> As far as I know link 10 does not measure speed or acceleration, but
> I don't own one. Ask some owners to be sure what to expect.
>
>
> Robert Chew wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am wanting to use a data logger in my electric car so that i can data
> > log all the parameters. I am using an Alltraax 7245 controller with
> > serial port. However, does anyone know one that can also measure the
> > speed, acceleartion??? as well. I like the emeter or Link 10 but its
> > hard to locate one in Australia.
> >
> > Cheers
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course! I was only mentioning the law.
YMMV.
I would never leave my driveway without insurance.
MC insurance is cheeep.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 3:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
If you hit someone you'll wish you had insurance. I am paying 50 bucks a
year for liability only for my motorcycle. LR>.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:43 AM
Subject: Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
>I spoke with the builder of a Buick and a Fox 3 wheel 'motorcycle'. They
> were driven from FL to Saint Louis, MO and back with no problems.
>
> By reducing the cars to 3 wheelers, they become instant motorcycles in FL.
>
> In these conversions, the rear wheel was placed in a wheel well in line
> with
> the rear wheels which were removed.
>
> This got me to thinking. What if the rear wheel was placed behind the car
> in the 5th wheel track instrument position?
>
> You hang the wheel and your motor back there and place some batteries in
> the
> trunk and presto! a hybrid motorcycle.
>
> This can be done with any FWD car.
>
> BTW The prime reason for converting the Buick to a motorcycle was to avoid
> $2,800 in annual insurance.
>
> There are no insurance requirements for motorcycles.
>
> BoyntonStu
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But for the price of batteries wouldn't the 6 EV-145 batteries out perform
the Trojans in every way. Battery weight would be 120 pounds more also. LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
Robert Chew wrote:
HI all,
Just in the process of converting my Fiat 126 into electric drive. I
really really want to use the Alltrax 7245 controller, 72 volts at 450
amps because its got an rs232 port to monitor and data log the
parameters. I am doing my thesis on it. I know its cheap, i would like
anyones thoughts on it. Also i'll give my specs of the car i am
converting. It will weigh 750 kg all up, using Trojan SCS25 12 volts
batteries, Uses a 6.7 inch advanced dc motor the K series, and running a
4 speed box with no
This all should work. It won't be very fast, range will be rather low,
and battery life won't be very good; but it's a good "training wheel"
sort of EV.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These were striped from the last email.
http://www.grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=5610
http://www.grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=5611
http://www.grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=5614
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:40 PM
Subject: OT: Northwest burger chain switches to pure wind power
Royale With Breeze
straight to the source: The Daily News, Courtney Sherwood, 16 Aug 2005
straight to the source: Portland Business Journal, 15 Aug 2005
straight to the source: GreenBiz.com, 16 Aug 2005
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a crazy idea (I do this a lot). With electric motors whose RPM can
be so tightly controlled, would it be possible to build a transmission
that doesn't even need a clutch? If you had an accurate speed and
position sensor on the gears it would seem like you could sync the
motor's rpm and tooth position with great accuracy, in which case a
lossless and nondestructive engagement is possible in theory. No torque
converter either.
Even if you had a manual, it would be spiffy to have a shift position
sensor, motor rpm, and gear rpm reading that would override the
accelerator pedal when the clutch is out and assume a perfect
synchronized rpm for letting the clutch out. Or has this been done?
It's really not that complicated.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Rod, there is a bloke that converted his Toyota Paseo to electric and he
uses a link 10 with rs232 and he wrote software for it too. He connected to
his palm pilot and it displays volts amps, and energy, its pretty good.
check it out. Go to ev album and under links to personal pages.
In regards to the US batteries, i'll have a closer look at them thanks guys,
i'll see if they sell it over here is Australia.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you look at how gearbox is built, you'll see that the gears are
always in mesh, no teeth engagement needed (except for reverse in
some cars)
With AC setup which always ckows RPM this is easily done, but no
need - it covers entire driveng speeds range with one gear, so
in a way works like automatic trnasmission (no need to switch).
With DC one - you'd need a built position sensor and tight
speed control by the controller - not trivial but doable.
DC motors usually have about twice as small useable RPM range,
so typically at least 2 gears needed for slow+freeway use.
There will be replies with some exceptions to this, so take
it as general "rule".
Victor
Danny Miller wrote:
Just a crazy idea (I do this a lot). With electric motors whose RPM can
be so tightly controlled, would it be possible to build a transmission
that doesn't even need a clutch? If you had an accurate speed and
position sensor on the gears it would seem like you could sync the
motor's rpm and tooth position with great accuracy, in which case a
lossless and nondestructive engagement is possible in theory. No torque
converter either.
Even if you had a manual, it would be spiffy to have a shift position
sensor, motor rpm, and gear rpm reading that would override the
accelerator pedal when the clutch is out and assume a perfect
synchronized rpm for letting the clutch out. Or has this been done?
It's really not that complicated.
Danny
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm passing along a press release for a TV show that looks at alternatives to
gasoline of many different types. At least a couple of vehicles seen at the
Tour de Sol appear:
The Lorax
The Vogelbilt motorcycle
Mike Bianchi
--------------
CoolFuel Road Trip is a 16,000 mile road trip, which travels across the
American terrain without a single drop of gas!
Episodes focus on promoting and teaching about renewable energy. Episode 12
for example seeks out solar powered homes and features a solar powered canoe,
car and even an electric dune buggy.
In light of the recent record high gas prices, now $66.50 per barrel American
frustration at the pump is making drivers increasingly curious about
alternative vehicles (thank goodnes).
Some of the featured vehicles include the T-Zero, the fastest electrical car in
the world (0-60 in 3.6 seconds) and a Hummer stretch limo along with
entertaining explanations about how these vehicles and the fuels that power
them work.
The charismatic "Aussie" host test drives these vehicles and many more across
16,000 miles and can provide insightful information on the practicality of and
future of alternative fuels and vehicles.
The series premiers in markets throughout the U.S. on the weekend of September
10Th .
We would like your help in getting the word out about this new entertaining and
educational series among your environmentally conscience following and everyone
else.
We would love to have you include some cool fuel roadtrip info on your website
and in any newsletters or publication you may distribute.
For more information or for show time listings please visit
www.coolfuelroadtrip.com
Also, we have a fantastic media kit with lots more info at:
http://www.vendely.com/CoolfuelRoadtrip/cfrtdefault.htm
Gemma Cacho
In the meantime a press release follows:
--------------
For Immediate Release - Los Angeles, CA August 05, 2005
CoolFuel ROADTRIP SERIES Premieres on KBHK-TV
16,000 miles and never stopping for gasoline!
On Sunday, September 11 at 11:30 a.m., the first episode of COOLFUEL ROADTRIP
will air on KBHK-TV. Beginning and ending in San Francisco, a crazy bunch of
adventurers and the American innovators involved in a 16,000 mile road-trip
across the U.S. are set to change U.S. fuel woes into a happier reality.
Starting off from the Golden Gate Bridge, this new Fall reality show is a
raucous ride on American back-roads, by-ways and highways exploring the variety
of non-fossil fuel dependent vehicles and fuels available.
In the first episode, host Shaun Murphy heads across the San Francisco Bay
north to The Geysers near Santa Rosa for his first geothermal energy power
charge. The largest geothermal development in the world, The Geysers can
produce enough electricity to meet the power demands of San Francisco. While
the jellybean-like electric Corbin Sparrow recharges, Shaun gets a geothermal
energy education and prepares for his next COOLFUEL challenge. Murphy also
gets an unexpected reminder of the great energy that resides within him when
eco-friendly actor, Ed Begley, Jr., gives Murphy an opportunity to power an
entire home with energy produced via pedaling; quite the electrifying work out.
A little further north the T-Zero, manufactured by AC Propulsion with offices
in Sunnyvale, takes center stage when Shaun challenges the Ferrari 360 Modino
to a road test. With three T-Zeros on the road, two sold to fuel-efficient
Silicon Valley entrepreneurs, the T-Zero is the world's fastest electric car.
We're not going to tell you who wins, but the T-Zero crosses the line way ahead
of the Ferrari when it comes to fuel consumption and emissions - zero on both
counts.
The show, 18 half-hour episodes, continues across America, with the COOLFUEL
Crew working hard to return at last to the Golden Gate. The FCC-friendly and
environment-savvy show is a breath of fresh air (literally).
Using a variety of fuel sources including; hot rocks, cow manure, garbage,
hempoline, food, sugar and vegetable oil, the COOLFUEL Crew drives, flies,
floats and peddles its way around the United States. They're not worried by
the recent $2 a barrel price increase or the unsightly $2.32 per gallon average
pump price. They drive Hummers and Harleys, fly planes and jet-turbine trucks.
But however they travel, it never involves a gas station stop.
# # #
Interviews with Shaun Murphy
Photos and Production Stills Available
Vendely Communications, Inc.
12501 Chandler Boulevard
Suite 106
Valley Village, CA 91607
818-623-1000
Fax 818-623-1881
www.vendely.com
--
Mike Bianchi
www.Foveal.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James & Lee,
Thanks for enlighten me a little bit, since speed and distance are not my first
priority (I live appr. 14 km from work, and the max speed is 80 km/h, roughly
50 miles/h), getting a good reliable electric motor is my main concern at the
moment before I start building it.
Your advice is greatly appreciated. But maybe during construction I'll change
my mind regarding speed and distance. I'll let you know.
Pascal
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James,
Sorry, I forgot to mention more about the vehicle I want to build. It is an
electric urbacar from Mr. Riley's website, more info there :
http://www.rqriley.com/urba-e.html
It's designed way back in the 1970's so most components are out of date,
therefor the question, regarding the motor.
Thx for the info.
Pascal
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 17, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Robert Chew wrote:
Just in the process of converting my Fiat 126 into electric drive. I
really really want to use the Alltrax 7245 controller, 72 volts at 450
amps because its got an rs232 port to monitor and data log the
parameters. I am doing my thesis on it. I know its cheap, i would like
anyones thoughts on it. Also i'll give my specs of the car i am
converting. It will weigh 750 kg all up, using Trojan SCS25 12 volts
batteries, Uses a 6.7 inch advanced dc motor the K series, and running
a 4 speed box with no clutch.
I have several thoughts about this -
You will have a peak horsepower of about 32. If the vehicle really does
weigh in at only 1650lbs then you will have about 52 pounds to push per
hp. This will certainly not be fast, but similar an EV conversion of
small pickup powered with golf cart batteries or a 40 hp (34 hp actual)
Beetle.
I wonder about your target weight. It seems too low, perhaps possible
for a smaller and older Fiat. My lightweight, an EV beach buggy with 10
Optimas, weighs in at 1420lbs. Your battery choice is only going to
save you about 50lbs over my buggy and a manx style buggy is more like
a go-cart than a car.
Your range will be less than great, I will estimate about 13 miles to
80% DOD (in warm weather.) The batteries will have a very short life it
they repeatedly go this far. With a range that short you could really
use good AGM batteries, they deep cycle better than marine batteries
and are more happy being discharged in a less than an hour. Another
idea would be floor sweeper batteries, a bit over 80 pounds each and
truly deep cycle in design.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
OK, I've been trying out the DC-DC converter I got from Newark, it's a C & D
Technologies NDY1212. Input voltage rated 9-18 VDC. 1KV isolated output of
12V at up to 250 mA. Cost $17. I used the recommended 10uF cap in the input
and 100uF on the output. The specs say that the minimum load to meet ripple
specs is 62 mA but I found that even with no load, the ripple is still very
acceptable. I measured the no-load current draw at 9mA. Runs the E-Meter
just fine.
Here's the link to the Newark catalog page:
"http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetai
l.jsp?SKU=95B9529&N=0"
Link to the Data Sheet:
"http://www.cd4power.com/data/power/ncl/ndc_ndy_3.pdf";
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this converter, no problem with input
voltage range or output current capacity.
August Johnson
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: e-meter and DC/DC - another possible part
This part is only rated at 167mA. Yet the Link 10 can require up to
225mA. How do you control this?
Richard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You were
> debating how long 2A current after CV stage should last and
> if there must be voltage limit. I didn't see a clear answer.
I doubt you will see a clear answer either ;^>
> Assume you have only one Optima (or AGM PbA in general)
> battery.
> So, 2 questions are still in the air:
>
> - After bulk CC and CV (was it thermo-compensated 14.4V?) and
> the current tapered current down to 2A Peter suggested to
> keep these 2A for I think 2 hours no voltage limit, and you
> suggest that it will (might) vent and the voltage limit is
> still needed but higher than for CV stage.
>
> So which is the case? If the voltage limit is needed for
> this final I in IUI sequence, what is the value?
Optima recommends no voltage limit for this phase. Dr. Olson's test
data suggests that the voltage may reach 16-16.5V per battery during
this phase. If I were going to impose a voltage limit on this phase, it
would be in the 16-16.5V ballpark so that normal batteries can peak
properly while one that would otherwise hit an unacceptable level will
be protected.
However, other AGM manufacturers have completely different
recommendations. Concorde, for instance does not recommend a constant
current finish at all. They state that once the current tapers to
0.5-1% of the C rating (or quits dropping) in the constant voltage
phase, their battery is fully charged and any additional energy put into
it is wasted. Not only that, but they state there is a noticable loss
oc life associated with taking their AGMs over 2.5 (2.55?) volts per
cell. This is in stark contrast to Optima who claim that their battery
must receive this constant current finish and be allowed to hit
2.6-2.7V/cell in order to be fully charged.
> Now, main question:
>
> If you don't have limit and strictly time it, you put exactly
> 4Ah in if you keep 2A for 2 hours.
> So is the goal is to put fixed Ah in after IU while
> preventing possible venting by clamping, or really
> no_voltage_limit at 2A (or less) is the phenomena which
> renders the battery 100% filled up?
If you calmp the voltage, you will be unable to ensre that a target
amount of Ah is returned since in practice the current will rapidly
taper off to a very low value as soon as the voltage limit is hit. It
can therefore take a *very* long (impractically long) time to force the
battery to accept the required additional Ah after hitting the voltage
limit.
> In other words can I be sure that extra 4Ah will *always*
> fill up the battery to 100% SOC regardless if the rate was
> 2A or less and if the voltage was limited or not (provided
> battery didn't vent)?
I think the answer is no. My basis for this is looking at the Hawker
charge recommendations. For their AGMs, they specify a voltage limit
for the final constant current phase, and state that the *duration* of
the phase must be maintained even if the voltage limit is reached. This
suggests that it is not (just) the Ah returned in this phase that is
important, but also that the battery is maintained at an elevated
voltage for an appropriate amount of time.
Note also that 4Ah is not a hard and fast limit. 2hrs at 2A was
determined by Optima to be appropriate for their batteries following an
80% discharge. There is some question as to whether the 2A rate itself
is critical (i.e. 1A may be too low to provide the same benefit even if
maintained for 4hrs), however, it is generally agreed that the duration
of this phase can be shorter for shallower DOD.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody have dimensions for a 1988 era S10
manual transmission adaptor plate? A link on the
net to a drawing would be great.
I guess a CAD type drawing of the transmission
mounting face would work if nobody has an EV adaptor
plate.
Thanks,
Rod
--- Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Im unsure, the S-10 im hoping to use is a manual
> transmission. If its
> the same i would be interested. Can someone tell us
> if they are the same
> and would fit a ADC motor or Warp motor >?
>
> Cwarman
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
>
> >I have an 1988 S10 adaptor plate for an automatic
> >transmission (would mounting be the same for a
> >manual?).
> >This was made for a GE motor but could easily work
> >with an ADC.
> >$140
> >Rod
> >P.S. If you do use a GE 9" I also have an adaptor
> for
> >the rotor shaft.
> >
> >
> >--- Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Thanks for the kind words of advice Stefano! I
> >>think ill go with the
> >>S-10 and found a deal on one so im trying to work
> >>out the details.
> >>
> >>Do you think the parts below are also perfect for
> >>this S-10 conversion ?
> >>
> >>FBI-4001A ADC DC Motor w/Dual Shaft
> >>1231 Curtis Controller 96/144 500amp limit
> >>PB6 Pot Box
> >>Albright Contactors SW200
> >>
> >>Zivan Charger System 2800 watts (is this
> particular
> >>model needed and if
> >>not, what else would be just as good but not as
> >>expensive ?) I was
> >>quoted $930 for this unit.
> >>
> >>Curtis DC/DC Converter 300 Watts
> >>*Model 1400E 120/140-1212F* (again is this model
> >>correct for the above
> >>system ?)
> >>
> >>Thanks so much in advance..
> >>
> >>Cwarman
> >>
> >>Stefano Landi wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi there and welcome to the world of EVs, being a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>newbie myself I
> >>
> >>
> >>>can't give you very technical advice, but I do
> have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>my $0.02 worth on
> >>
> >>
> >>>your donor vehicle.
> >>>
> >>>Pontiac Grand AM - very heavy I think and you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>should make sure it's
> >>
> >>
> >>>got a manual tranny as an automatic is a more
> >>>
> >>>
> >>problematic conversion.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Chevy S-10 - This is the defacto standard and the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>PERFECT vehicle for
> >>
> >>
> >>>conversion. In fact if you can get the S-10 don't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>think of any other
> >>
> >>
> >>>vehicle. The pickup platform is the ideal vehicle
> >>>
> >>>
> >>as it has a strong
> >>
> >>
> >>>frame (for battery weight), the parts overall are
> >>>
> >>>
> >>inexpensive for
> >>
> >>
> >>>repairs and the number of conversions are plenty
> so
> >>>
> >>>
> >>you have a large
> >>
> >>
> >>>amount of experience to tap into. If you go to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>www.grassrootsev.com
> >>
> >>
> >>>you can order a video on CD which goes through
> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>whole conversion
> >>
> >>
> >>>process. On their conversion they placed the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>batteries within the
> >>
> >>
> >>>frame rails under the bed and it made for a very
> >>>
> >>>
> >>neat conversion. I'm
> >>
> >>
> >>>not affiliated with grassroots, but I do endorse
> >>>
> >>>
> >>what they are doing
> >>
> >>
> >>>and purchased the video, it will surely help me
> >>>
> >>>
> >>through my own
> >>
> >>
> >>>conversion.
> >>>
> >>>regards,
> >>>
> >>>Stefano
> >>>DrFestiva
> >>>http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> >>>
> >>>On 8/18/05, Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hi guys, my first post to this group and im very
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>much a newbie to EV
> >>
> >>
> >>>>cars and conversions. Im very much planning on
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>starting one soon and ive
> >>
> >>
> >>>>been soaking up every bit of information i can
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>find online. I live in
> >>
> >>
> >>>>maine and trying to find a good donor vehicle
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>right now. Im in contact
> >>
> >>
> >>>>with two different people about cars that i can
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>buy on the cheap. One is
> >>
> >>
> >>>>a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am and the other is a 95
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>Chevy S-10.
>
=== message truncated ===
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D.E. stands for viewing it from the Drive End. Also I like Advance as the
parts are easier and cheaper for me to obtain. Warfield was my competition at
Beech Electric so I may be bias here, hehehe.
man <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What is better for a s-10 Conversion a Warp DC
motor or a Advanced DC
motor ? Any thoughts and reasons ?
Cwarman
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> This page:
>
> http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp8.php
>
> Mentions CCWDE and CWDE in relation to shaft rotation direction. I
> realize that CCW and CW refer to counter-clockwise and clockwise, but
> what does the DE stand for? I'm assuming it means "As viewed from the
> Drive End".
>
> Anyone?
>
>
> .
>
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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Thanks Roger.
It is odd Optima suggests no limit at final "I", and yet Rich
is claiming that this WILL vent it sooner or later. It is
contradictory and I have hard time choosing whom to believe.
Has anyone done charging with 2A for 2 hours no voltage limit?
Did it vent?
Peter? I suppose you do charge with no limit as Optima recommends,
were you able to reach decent Optima life as Rich (who limits
max voltage) claims?
Any comments Rich why (according to you) would Optima suggest
charging method which kills their batteries in a few hundred cycles??
Victor
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You were
debating how long 2A current after CV stage should last and
if there must be voltage limit. I didn't see a clear answer.
I doubt you will see a clear answer either ;^>
Assume you have only one Optima (or AGM PbA in general)
battery.
So, 2 questions are still in the air:
- After bulk CC and CV (was it thermo-compensated 14.4V?) and
the current tapered current down to 2A Peter suggested to
keep these 2A for I think 2 hours no voltage limit, and you
suggest that it will (might) vent and the voltage limit is
still needed but higher than for CV stage.
So which is the case? If the voltage limit is needed for
this final I in IUI sequence, what is the value?
Optima recommends no voltage limit for this phase. Dr. Olson's test
data suggests that the voltage may reach 16-16.5V per battery during
this phase. If I were going to impose a voltage limit on this phase, it
would be in the 16-16.5V ballpark so that normal batteries can peak
properly while one that would otherwise hit an unacceptable level will
be protected.
However, other AGM manufacturers have completely different
recommendations. Concorde, for instance does not recommend a constant
current finish at all. They state that once the current tapers to
0.5-1% of the C rating (or quits dropping) in the constant voltage
phase, their battery is fully charged and any additional energy put into
it is wasted. Not only that, but they state there is a noticable loss
oc life associated with taking their AGMs over 2.5 (2.55?) volts per
cell. This is in stark contrast to Optima who claim that their battery
must receive this constant current finish and be allowed to hit
2.6-2.7V/cell in order to be fully charged.
Now, main question:
If you don't have limit and strictly time it, you put exactly
4Ah in if you keep 2A for 2 hours.
So is the goal is to put fixed Ah in after IU while
preventing possible venting by clamping, or really
no_voltage_limit at 2A (or less) is the phenomena which
renders the battery 100% filled up?
If you calmp the voltage, you will be unable to ensre that a target
amount of Ah is returned since in practice the current will rapidly
taper off to a very low value as soon as the voltage limit is hit. It
can therefore take a *very* long (impractically long) time to force the
battery to accept the required additional Ah after hitting the voltage
limit.
In other words can I be sure that extra 4Ah will *always*
fill up the battery to 100% SOC regardless if the rate was
2A or less and if the voltage was limited or not (provided
battery didn't vent)?
I think the answer is no. My basis for this is looking at the Hawker
charge recommendations. For their AGMs, they specify a voltage limit
for the final constant current phase, and state that the *duration* of
the phase must be maintained even if the voltage limit is reached. This
suggests that it is not (just) the Ah returned in this phase that is
important, but also that the battery is maintained at an elevated
voltage for an appropriate amount of time.
Note also that 4Ah is not a hard and fast limit. 2hrs at 2A was
determined by Optima to be appropriate for their batteries following an
80% discharge. There is some question as to whether the 2A rate itself
is critical (i.e. 1A may be too low to provide the same benefit even if
maintained for 4hrs), however, it is generally agreed that the duration
of this phase can be shorter for shallower DOD.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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I have a 120Vac heater core that is running off a
156Vdc pack. This pushes the heater to temperatures
that are higher than some plastic ducting can
withstand. I was thinking about using a bimetalic
switch in the heat path to turn off the heater. This
was used on many older style clothes dryers. Any
advice on the bimetalic switch part number would be
appreciated (or at least a web site for a range of
temp switches so I can choose one that may work in
this application).
Thanks,
Rod
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This may be something similar to(or the same as) what you're
talking about. This article is from Mother Earth News, and
not Popular Science.
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?s=47107aca01da3470e6bd6dc6e28d630a&act=Attach&type=post&id=16757
However, I'd say the claims in this article I linked to are
at best exagerrated.
Inserted below the dotted line is a post I made on the
visforvoltage forum in response to this article, and if the
truck you are referring to is in the article linked above,
it is exagerrated at least as much as the Opel GT.
........................................
Back in 1979, $1,500 is worth about $4,000 in today's
dollars according to the consumer price index.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
2nd, an Opel GT is going to need about 12 rear wheel
horsepower to travel at a steady 50 mph. A 9 horsepower
diesel generator will not provide this. The article claims
the generator can keep tyhe car going at a steady 50 mph,
but my hunch is that this is not the case, that instead the
generator supplies most of the power and the energy in the
batteries batteries will allow it to keep going for just
over 100 miles at 50 mph WITH the generator running too.
Considering the Opel GT has a coefficient drag of .39 and a
frontal area of 19 ft square, just the aerodynamic losses
alone at 50 mph are going to require a little over 6 wheel
horsepower to overcome. Then, assuming a coefficient rolling
resistance of .009, which would be incredibly low for 1979
and probably not even achievable on a street legal car back
then since radial tires weren't even hardly in use, and
there goes the rest of your horsepower. This already puts
that 9 hp generator in trouble! Some quick math:
Wheel HP to overcome aero losses = (Force
Drag)*(Velocity)/550
Aero = (Rho)(V*V)(Cd)(F)/2
V is velocity in feet per second
F is frontal area in square feet
Cd is coefficient drag
Rho is air density in slugs per cubic feet (sea level =
0.00238 slugs/ cu. ft)
50 mph = 73.3333 feet per second
Thus force aerodynamic drag alone is 47.4 pounds at 50 mph,
and will require 6.32 rear wheel horsepower to overcome.
With a .009 Cr and about a 1,900 pound curb weight, this
means 15.2 pounds of force are needed to overcome rolling
resistance losses, or about 2.28 horsepower.
This doesn't count wheel bearing losses, wheel inertia
losses, or transmission losses. Transmission losses alone in
an Opel GT are about 15% of flywheel horsepower.
Thus, before you even count in wheel bearing losses, wheel
inertia losses, or transmission losses, the Opel GT is
already needing 8.6 real wheel horsepower to travel 50 mph.
But, lets only add in transmission losses. It's probably
about 15%, but lets say it's only 10%, which would be very
efficient for a car back then. Now you need just over 10
horsepower coming from the electric motor to cruise at a
steady 50 mph. This is without other losses accounted for.
Looks like this Opel GT hybrid is in trouble, *unless* it
had a full belly pan, shaved door handles, sealed grille,
taped seams, shaved off rain gutters, removed mirrors, and
every other trick in the book to cut parasitic aero losses.
You have to also account for wheel bearing friction, inertia
losses, and the fact that no generator is 100%
efficient(laws of themrodynamics must be obeyed).
I think 50 mph was an exagerration, but I think it could
easily cruise on generator power alone at 35-40 mph without
at all draining the battery pack, while 50 mph would start
draining it some with the generator fired at full speed.
Nevertheless, it DOES demonstrate hybrids were feasable 25
years ago and even earlier. Case in point: diesel
locomotives have been using the same technology HEVs have
been using since the 1940s, and back in the 1910s, Porsche
demonstrated a functioning hybrid electric automobile.
This hybrid Opel GT, with say, a VW Rabbit diesel instead of
a lawnmower engine would proably be able to cruise at a
steady 80 mph, but since the electric motor is a surplus
aircraft starter generator, it probably wouldn't be able to
supply the same continuous horsepower that a VW Rabbit
diesel could. Now days, on the otherhand, with say, a WarP
9'' electric motor, that could supply that horsepower.
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Sam Harper wrote:
> I'm trying to weigh between [an AC] and a DC concept [drive system].
> I'm not really concerned about performance -- just range.
If range is important, then pounds of batteries is more important than
whether you use an AC or DC drive system. The battery system is your
first priority.
> - Small crossover-type SUV, perfect vehicle seems to be the Suzuki
> X-90 or Kia Sportage - something with 4WD
4WD is always going to be less efficient, and this works against range.
EVs tend to be heavy anyway, so 4WD is normally less necessary. But, I
think you said that you wanted 4WD no matter what?
> - Replace ICE, transmission, and differentials with an Etek motor
> and 2:1 gearbox on each wheel
This could work, but would take a lot of effort. The Etek is very
efficient and lightweight; but also expensive, low in horsepower, and
very weakly made for a traction motor. It is not something I would
expect to last long in heavy usage.
> -Each Etek controlled by its own Sevcon Millipak 4Q motor
A big advantage to brushed DC motors is how easily they will share the
load when all run from the same controller. So you really don't need 4
separate controllers; a single one large enough for the total power
needed would be a better solution.
> -48v system, still a PFC-20 or PFC-30 charger
The 48v is a consequence of the Etek motor's voltage limitation. But the
number of batteries you need for adequate range will push you towards a
higher pack voltage.
> -4 strings of 6 US Battery 8-volt HC batteries
8-volt batteries are a compromise; something you use when neither range,
nor life, nor cost, nor performance are your biggest concerns. If range
is your big issue, then I'd start with 6v golf car batteries like the
T-125 or T-145. See how many the vehicle can carry, and what system
voltage that leads you to.
Then look for a single traction motor large enough for the power needed.
Then find a controller suitable for the pack voltage and current the
chosen motor will need.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Michaela
When I bought my E-10s in early July, I drove out to Arizona with my Dodge
Ram 1500 and I towed one and my dad towed the other (he has a Ram also) 1500
miles to Nashville. The only problem we had was the dang U-haul tow dolly
trailers both had flat tires along the way. It didn't effect anything when
the tires blew out. We came prepared and just used the standard Dodge screw
jack and lifted trailer and truck together and replace the trailer tire.
That was a pain but only slowed us down about 30 minutes each time it
happened. The only caveat is that you tow the truck backward on the trailer
and use a couple of tie down straps to lock the steering wheel to the seat
belt mounting points. We actually only needed to do that with one truck.
It seemed like the steering lock was a little weak and it would slip a
notch. The other traveled fine without the tie downs. I actually got
better mileage coming home from Arizona than I did driving out there. And
that was pulling a truck with 1000 lbs of batteries! I guess that was
because I never went over 65mph on the way home and was pushing 75 or more
on the way out. They pull very easy backward. Most tow trucks (heaven
forbid you will ever need one) can just as easily pick the truck up backward
as forward.
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Michaela Merz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
What scares me a little about those trucks is, that you can't tow them
(that is what I have been told). You have to put them onto a flat bed.
After all, those cars are some 6-7 years old and, well, we all know that
cars can and will fail. Being unable to call somebody for a quick tow home
would be a BIG show stopper for me.
mm.
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
>>
>> You don't really mean to suggest that, do you? Usually people is
>> dreaming about doing it other way around - trash a DC system
>> and put AC system in.
>
> No way! I was just pointing out the ability to do so. I like not
> having to futz with brushes and stuff.
>
>>> Or dump the charger and put in one of the PFC units.
>>
>>
>> Same goes here. If you'll ever want to "dump" an NLG412
>> in a favor of a PFC, let's exchange - I'll give you PFC
>> and may be pay some.
>
> And the same here. If anybody on the list has an NLG412 they want to
> sell, please contact me off-list. This is a great charger and I like to
> have spares around!
>
> My mentioning these things was merely to show how flexible the truck
> is. Also, I know there have been a few of these on eBay recently and
> some were missing motor controllers or chargers and/or had been
> disassembled -- And had those disclaimer-loaded descriptions that just
> scream "dead truck!". You could buy these trucks and if one of the
> systems was dead, you wouldn't have to worry too much about replacing it
> with another option.
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
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Hi Everyone,
Richard said:
This part is only rated at 167mA. Yet the Link 10 can require up to
225mA. How do you control this?
Richard
My e-meter's manual says it is 50-150mA, depending on lighting
conditions. This is the e-meter before it was the Link 10. It peforms
the same as far as I can tell. It's the same unit that Grassroots EV
has on their website for a very good price. I'd get one from them
before they run out!
Maybe the "Link 10" uses 225mA peak. Of course I haven't measured the
current draw, maybe it is higher than spec. Whatever the case, the
DC/DC I mentioned works good, and hasn't overheated or burned up.
In light of this, I'd recommend something like this, Mouser part number
580-NDY1212
<http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=234498&e_categoryid=100&e_pcodeid=58017>.
It's about double the price (~$17), but can take 9-18V on the input. I
had to build a simple circuit to verify that the voltage didn't go over
about 13.5V.
This part is rated at a maximum of 3W. The only problem I see is that
it's minimum current is about 60mA. That's about the minimum of the
e-meter, so I imagine it would work fine.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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