EV Digest 4689
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) How can I use a monster UPS?
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fuses
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Contactor on all the time or controlled by the pot box?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Contactor on all the time or controlled by the pot box?
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Old race attage
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Slowing down. Was Re: no interest in racing
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) White Zombie - '74 Nova V8 Drag Car Comparison
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery Repair (was "Re: AGM battery mgmt system")
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: White Zombie - '74 Nova V8 Drag Car Comparison
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) John Wayland wins The Rannberg Cup Award
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) CORRECTION - E-Chair Racing
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Some EV help
by Chris Taylor Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery Repair (was "Re: AGM battery mgmt system")
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 2 strings and an EMeter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: White Zombie - '74 Nova V8 Drag Car Comparison
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Some EV help
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Old race attage
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 300 MPH Quarter EV Technology
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Some EV help
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Some EV help
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: IOTA
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Six years ago I acquired an Uninerruptable Power Supply unit suitable for
the computer room:. It probably weighs 400 lbs, and occupies about 4 or 5 cu
ft. in volume. Inside are a *very* large numher of 4 amp-hour sealed grey
batteries, so it looks like it runs 120 or 240 vDC, and I'm sure it puts out
a clean 60 cycle 120 and 240 VAC. The electronics are daunting (many cards)
and the transformers very impressive. I've been afraid to mess with it, and
now the batteries are probably junk. It has also been out in the weather lo
these many years.
Can anyone think of a good use for this unit? Anyone with a real need for a
UPS unit shouldn't touch it, it won't do for powering a drive motor, it
MIGHT be useful for pack-to-110AC, so I can run my computer while driving
(hmm.) or to plug in a 12 volt power supply to get headights. Sounds goofy
to me, but it kills me to have all of this gear and not use it.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
-Tim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Rush,
Shrink back means that the lead post of the battery will melt just a little
bit, where the torque of the battery connection is less.
For example, when I install new batteries, I torque the clamp around brass type
battery connector to 65-75 inch lbs. See the specs. of the torque rated of
your battery connectors.
Then drive the car for five miles and check the torque again. You will find it
will loss about 5 inch lbs on the first go around.
Also you could do some Specific Gravity checks or check some batteries in the
group to see what voltage drop you get for the five miles.
Torque the connections again and repeat the five mile test again. Do this
until there is very little shrink back of 1 or 2 inch lbs.
If you battery specs. give a range of lets say 65 to 75 inch lbs, go with the
75 inch lbs, so you will have a 10 inch lbs range before you will have to
re-torque again.
On a new set of batteries, I will than check the connection torque about once a
month for about 6 months. After that if they stabilized, than I do it every 6
months, which I do a major battery maintenance of specific gravity checks,
connections check, watering and cleaning.
When a person is shopping for new batteries, take your volt meter, load meter,
a brass battery connector and torque wrench with you. If you are going to put
out a bid for a group of batteries, they should measure up to the
specifications that are noted.
I found in one case, that the top stud type of battery, the studs started to
pull out which did not reach the maximum torque value that was stated. I don't
used the stud type anymore, except on my old Exide batteries where the lead
post are very hard.
Also if you going to purchase in store batteries and not a new fresh shipment,
look at the DATE CODE that is stamp on the battery post pad or next to it. If
its reading something like F 4, that means June of 2004, way too old, and never
had maintainers on them, do not purchase them.
I did purchase instore batteries one time, and they only lasted less than 1
second. Several of them blew up when I just press the acceleration a bit. I
than found out that these batteries were setting in some warehouse for over 9
months.
By pass the dealer, and call the battery factory directly and they ship me
replacement pack with fresh batteries that were not over 2 weeks old.
My car is somewhat of a show car where it's is taken to car shows and they did
not want that type of publicity.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Rush<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Fuses
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Fuses
>
> Your battery connections might not hold, as where they will shrink back
which will lose torque and may melt and than arc.
>
Roland, you mentioned this once before. What do you mean, that at high amps
the connection will shorten? Does this mean that the bat connect cable should
not be straight, but a little curved so to let the shrinkage happen?
Let me also say that I really appreciate all the info you put into your
replies, thanks.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org<http://www.ironandwood.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first thought that comes to my mind, Lawrence, is that the contactor
draws around 2Amps when closed, so having it on all the time would be
wasting a little power when the pedal wasn't pressed. Not sure how much of
a Con that is.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:25 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Contactor on all the time or controlled by the pot box?
Is it better to have the contactor on all the time or have it kick in every
time you put the foot to the pedal. My Electravan kicks in the contactor
every time you touch the pedal. I wired the Aspire to have the contactor
come on when the 12v system was powered up through the normal Ignition key.
Pro's and Con's?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ntrolled by the pot box?
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:28:50 -0600
The first thought that comes to my mind, Lawrence, is that the contactor
draws around 2Amps when closed, so having it on all the time would be
wasting a little power when the pedal wasn't pressed. Not sure how much of
a Con that is.
The current draw depends on the contactor you use. I'm using the Czonka III
( with a relatively low current pack of 8vgc floodeds) so the contactor
current draw is only about 150 ma. In that case, it's not much of a con.
Phil
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:25 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Contactor on all the time or controlled by the pot box?
Is it better to have the contactor on all the time or have it kick in every
time you put the foot to the pedal. My Electravan kicks in the contactor
every time you touch the pedal. I wired the Aspire to have the contactor
come on when the 12v system was powered up through the normal Ignition key.
Pro's and Con's?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The question use to be
How fast do you want to go?
And the answer used to be
How much money do you have?
While true with EV dragsters and ICE alike we can change the question a
little when we are not racing.
How far do you want to go?
same answer
How much money do you have :-(
The same effiency that gets you another tenth on the track will get the
same vehicle another mile of range.
John,otmar,Tim,Rod,rich, Keep up the good work and thanks for carrying
the torch for the rest of us.
I used to race and I love watching races. My second EV is planned for
autocrossing. ( lithium-ion,integrated BLDCmotor-transaxle with dog
clutched straight cut gears, No right angle gears and paddle shifting)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thing suggesting slowing down traffic is not practical or desireable.
Now let me explain
Here in fresno, like many towns,there is a commute. Ok so ours is like
10 miles from one end of town to the other but it surprises me how bad
that traffic can get. I took one day off work to run errands (find parts
for EV) and was out and about during both commute times. I saw 8
accidents and I avoided the freeway.
A road is like a circuit with current flowing in it, and voltage is the
speed. In this town too much of the traffic tries to get off at one exit
and it backs up becuase the exits are too slow. "too much resistance"
slowing down the speed would mean less cars per second and an earlier
onset of problems.
What is really needed is to re-think our city layouts and reduce the
actual need to commute but that vears off topic.
Besides the image that "EV's are slow and hince unsafe" or "not fit to
be on the road", that we want dispell, we just can't take a step back in
time to a time when towns were smaller, The larger the town the faster
traffic must move or it backs up.
It would be nice if the city was smart enough to make 4 roads 2
north/south and two east/west and just dedicate them to traffic 25 and
under. Heck, they could put the grade schools on these streets instead
of the main streets for our kids. They could split one of the two normal
lanes into 2 smaller lanes for bikes,motor bikes, and NEV's.
It is a shame so much effort went into a almost cross town walk/bike
path but if you ride your bike over 8mph they ask you to get off, and
they placed pipes at every intersection you have to avoid and ramps
that arn't lined up with the path.
Bikes (human powered) for commuting flow better with cars than in
same lane as meandering pedestrians who just love to walk 4 abreast.
As I vear off topic, sorry, but my point is while we can't change the
burorcracy, for now, we must fit in.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I had an interesting conversation today with one of those folks that Tom
Shay says isn't interested in electric drag racing. He was just one of
my many customers on my forklift service route, an average guy working
in a warehouse. In the past we've had a few short conversations about my
electric car addiction, and he's always been 'interested' but not over
enthusiastic...until today, that is. I had told him the results of our
weekend's racing efforts, and reported that the car had run a mid
12....his eyes got big. He then asked, "What was your 1/8th mile like?"
I told him our best 1/8 mile portion was a 7.917 @ 85 some-odd mph, and
also told him one run had us approaching 87 mph (86.57) in the 1/8
mile....his eyes got a bit larger. That's when he surprised me when he
told me that he too, was a drag racer. That's also when he gave me some
very interesting info on his '74 Chevy Nova drag car. He went on to tell
me that his 'thing' was 1/8 mile drags, not the usual full 1/4 mile as
is mine, and he said he'd tuned his machine to haul ass especially in
the 1/8 mile....his best time ever, was a 7.92.
Here's a short list of his muscle car's specs:
383 cid 'stroker' Chevy V8
Edelbrock Torquer intake
Edelbrock 650 cfm 4 barrel carb
Headers, big cam, and exhaust
2500 rpm stall converter
B&M 3 stage shift kit
Mickey Thompson wrinkle wall drag slicks
Food for thought.....White Zombie does almost exactly the same time with
its 7.917 vs the Nova's 7.920, but does so running with street legal
drag radials against the Nova fitted with the real deal, full race
wrinkle wall drag slicks. Contrary to what Tom says, "... electric cars
are slugs compared to ICE drag racers."....this guy who had built up a
fast Nova, was absolutely blown away with what my electric car had done.
He plans on bringing a group of his friends down to PIR next Friday
night to watch us run against the gasser boys.
From Rod Hower:
John and Jim Husted have engineered
their own electric drive system to crank out 12.65 1/4
mile times. That is impressive and very unique, and
the fans at the drag track recognize this vehicle....You may call 12.65
in the 1/4 boring, but the engineering and time to
create such a unique vehicle is much more impressive
than a 9 second alcohol dragster that can be created
with off the shelf parts.
Thanks Rod, I appreciate this. My friend Gene, who I met in the Fall of
'03 at the track and who has the low 11 second Nova I've written about
from time to time, feels the same way as you do. He gets it. We saw him
a few weekends ago when we raced the Silver Bullet Z Car, and as usuual,
it was great getting to talk with him again. Gene doesn't know about our
recent mid 12 second run or our sub 8 second 1/8 mile times, but I'll
bet that once he finds out, he'll be running around telling everyone
about it. Here's guy with a far quicker car than mine, yet because it's
the unexpected.... 'an electric car'... that performs way outside the
perceived norm, it's super cool.
Change of subject.....I just got off the phone with Tim Brehm, and he
had me freeze the launch segment of the 104 mph run I've got posted at:
http://plasmaboyracing.com
Folowing the burnout and just before the car takes off, if you pause the
movie, then step the launch s-l-o-w-l-y frame by frame, you can see two
very telling things....one, is the way the drag radials wrinkle pretty
severely at the point of first bite. These aren't wrinkle wall tires, so
I was a bit surprised to see them do this... and two, the way the rear
axle winds up on the leaf springs to where there's too much fore and aft
movement of the entire rear axle to my liking. I'd already planned on
lengthening the traction bars to make their ends match up farther ahead
right at the leaf spring pivot instead of their present contact point
that's about 3 inches behind the pivot (that allow too much spring wind
up). Now, after watching the crazy axle travel, I 'have' to make this
mod! Additionally, Tim and I both experienced the front spings dropping
away from their normal tucked-in postion with the front strut cups due
to the way the front end pops up so far....we'll be fixing this problem,
too. The rear end traction bar mods and front end spring control mods
will go a long ways towards helping the car get out of the hole even
better, and might be good for another 1/10 - 2/10 of second off that mid
12 ET, perhaps putting the car in the 12.3 second range? With better
traction, we can turn up the Zilla a bit more in the series mode and
maybe shave off another 2/10 -3/10 getting the car awfully close to the
high 11s!
Interesting stat from Sunday's racing....With the exception of the very
first run Tim had ever made down a 1/4 mile track, White Zombie was 5
for 6 at going 100 mph and more in the 1/4 mile. It's also fun to note
that Tim just 'had' to make a statement with his perfect 100.00 mph that
put him into the 100 mph club! In chronological order of the day:
96.47, 100.00, 102.43, 103.53, 103.92, 104.14
It's interesting to watch the speed go up as the batteries both warm up
and get better broken in. After struggling to crack 100 mph in the
quarter mile last year, 100+ speeds are now the norm for the car, so I
guess we've made some progress :-)
Stay tuned for this coming Wednesday's 1/8 mile runs, and for the
following Friday's drag racing results (weather permitting)...
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
'We blow things up, so you don't have to'
http://plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I rather have 2 volt cells, or it more correct to call them jars when each 2
volt section is it's only separate case. If you go to the Exide Tudor type
batteries WEB site to see what they look like, of which I used at once time
which are 18 inches high and 3 by 6 inches.
They are connected together with very heavy lead links that are welded on with
battery lead sticks and a torch with a long thin flame point.
To remove the this links, you hole saw them using a hole saw with all the teeth
removed and grinding in two large teeth into the saw blade. The lead is then
shave off.
This leaves a post stub on the jar top. The tops are caulk in with butyl tape,
the same type for setting in your vehicle glass. Then I put a skim coat of
black Lexon caulking to smooth it up.
Once you cut out this seal, you pull out the plates and quickly put them into a
container of distill water. Check the specific gravity of the acid. If it
reads 1.250 than you only put 1.250 back in.
While the plates are suspended in the distill water. I vibrate the this
container with a small motor that has a offset weight on a pulley. This cleans
all the particles between the plates while measuring the voltage of the this
jar.
If the voltage is at 0 then there is a short between a seperator. To find this
short, I than slide in porous plastic seperator as I removed one. Continue to
do this until the short disappears.
Install the plates back into the jar and install the jar into the cell of the
battery pack. Weld on the link back on and you are ready to go.
These 300 to 450 AH Exide Tudor Type 2 volt batteries are about $100.00
factory cost back in 1980. So it was more cost effective to do the
maintenance of these type of battery packs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Stephenson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:52 PM
Subject: Battery Repair (was "Re: AGM battery mgmt system")
Interesting that this would be posted today. This morning I met with an 72
year old used car dealer, to chat about frames and front ends for an EV
project. He told me of melting off the tops of tar-top batteries, cutting
the connectors between cells, and replacing the bad cell with the guts from
a donor battery. Times have changed a bit...
-Tim S
EVer Wannabe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
> Nope they just recycle them.
>
> Clearly Sealed AGMs can't be cleaned out.... just recycled.
>
> The point of AGMs is sealed, and clean and very high power to weight
> compared to Floodeds.
> So we get good snort, and nver have to water them, But we have to have
good
> chargers and Regs... a expensive draw back.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:37 AM
> Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
>
>
> > Excuse a newbie battery question but what actually happens to a Pb
battery
> > when it is of no further use. Is it silted up ??. I remember reading
about
> U
> > boat batteries that they used to open up and clear the crap out of to
stop
> > the plates shorting out - can modern flooded hi discharge batts be
washed
> > out and refilled with acid ?
> >
> > N.B I realise with gel or other sealed types it would be tricky :-))
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
> >
> >
> > > I have a problem with this statment.
> > >
> > > Since I AM the guy who invented Rudman Regs and have them on all
my
> > > personal EVs.
> > >
> > > This just is not true.
> > >
> > > Rudman Regs and a good charger will get you the rated life cycles of
> your
> > > AGMs. Been there done it got 5x the rated life out of my old Yellow
> tops.
> > >
> > > Rudman Regs and a PFC charger better get you darn good range and
life...
> > or
> > > you simply never tuned the system correctly.
> > >
> > > What else may I ask is needed to keep AGMs alive??? Beside a voltage
> > > regualted charger and Peak voltage limiting battery regulators????
> > >
> > > What don't I know?
> > > Educate me....
> > >
> > > Rich Rudman
> > > Manzanita Micro
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:04 AM
> > > Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
> > >
> > >
> > > > James Massey wrote:
> > > > "Apart from that, the choices pretty much come down to
> > > > DIY solutions. I am using some cheap programmable logic
> > > > controllers to integrate the signals from the Rudman
> > > > regs, and control a dumb-as-a-brick transformer charger in
> > > > a manner that the AGMs and regulators should be happy with."
> > > >
> > > > James, are you saying that battery management systems, like
> > > > the Rudman regulators are insufficient alone to work with
> > > > AGMs?
> > > >
> > > > I wonder what others' experiences have been with BMS? Has
> > > > anyone tried PowerCheq?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date:
> 08/09/2005
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/05
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
Change of subject.....I just got off the phone with Tim Brehm, and he
had me freeze the launch segment of the 104 mph run I've got posted at:
http://plasmaboyracing.com
Can you post the full link please, I haven't been able to find it?
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This year the NEDRA board chose John Wayland as the recipient of the coveted
Rannberg Cup. This award is given in honor of and remembrance of Ed Rannberg
who we consider the father of modern electric drag racing. For more
information on this award and this wonderful man go to
http://www.nedra.com/rannberg.html This award is given each year to the
person we feel has done the most in the past year to promote electric drag
racing. Congratulations John! you definitely deserve it!
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/94 - Release Date: 9/9/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forget Roderick. Give Deafscooter a TZero drive train and he'll put is all
in a scooter and that'll do 300. LR............
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Really sorry, Chuck's last name is LYFORD .... not LaFord
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want badly to make some kind of electric car. my commute is so small
it just makes sense to me to try. (7 miles each way all under 45mph)
I was thinking about a citicar but most dont work and are expensive if
they remotely work :-( plus they look cool.
I cant afford to convert a normal car. If I had 10 thousand dollars I
would not be worried about it.
so I want to custom build something. I'm figuring build something
"around" a motorcycle chassis. full enclosed with side rigger wheels to
make it stable and all weather.
so now I have some questions of which I can not answer and can not even
find the "resources" to allow me to try and answer. someone pointed me
to this list :-)
one idea was to use D Nimh cells. I can get them for $5 a pop and they
are 10amps each !! (10,000mah) maybe cheaper in bulk.
I only need a 30mile range (figure double what I need in reality to have
a buffer)
I can probably figure out most of it but 2 things. what kind of
motor/controller do I need and how in the heck do I "charge" such a thing.?
not sure how much the vehicle will weigh I figure same as it did as a
motorcycle since I will be dropping the engine but then adding batteries
and all weather shell and extensions etc.. plus my 350 pounds. so I
figure 500-550 pounds ?? lets figure 700 pounds top end all up road
weight unless I need more batteries and they end up weighing more.
if I ever get enough money converting my VW Thing to EV would be neat
but only if I could get at least a 200 mile range from it so thats not
likely to be for a while and not untill I am quite a bit better off
financially :-)
Suggestions ?
Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Stephenson wrote:
> This morning I met with an 72 year old used car dealer, to chat
> about frames and front ends for an EV project. He told me of melting
> off the tops of tar-top batteries, cutting the connectors between
> cells, and replacing the bad cell with the guts from a donor battery.
> Times have changed a bit...
Fork lift and other large industrial batteries still work this way. They
come in a big steel box, and can replace individual cells.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I am considering running two 180 volt strings in parallel to lower
> the voltage of the traction components. But I would like to charge
> them with a PFC as one string at twice the voltage.
Why do you want to charge them in series? The longer the series string,
the harder battery equalization becomes. Two 180-volt strings is 360v in
series, which is getting dangerously high.
> But how would this setup work with an E-Meter? Is there any way to
> hook up one Emeter to accurately track both charging and discharging?
If you really wanted to use an E-meter with a series/parallel pack, then
I'd put the shunt in the negative lead of the negative-most half-pack,
and connect the prescaler to the positive lead of the positive-most
half-pack. The E-meter will read voltage correctly in both series and
parallel, and you can set the charge paramaters and low-voltage alarm
suitably for the doubled voltage during charging and half while driving.
The current and amphour display will be correct in series, and half of
the true number during driving in parallel. However, if the two
half-packs are the same, the current in each should be the same and the
E-meter reading is accurate enough.
> How about a Link 1000 that can monitor 2 packs?
No; the Link 1000 uses a shunt with both negatives tied together. It
works for two batteries in parallel, but you can't switch them in series
or otherwise separate their grounds.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All and Paul,
Paul Wujek wrote:
John Wayland wrote:
Change of subject.....I just got off the phone with Tim Brehm, and he
had me freeze the launch segment of the 104 mph run I've got posted at:
http://plasmaboyracing.com
Can you post the full link please, I haven't been able to find it?
If you click on the above link to the Plasma Boy Racing website, then
click on the 'Videos' button, then click on the first video thumbnail on
the page, it takes you right to it where it can be played on Qucik Time
Player. Nonetheless, here's the exact link:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos/nedra2005-hi.mov
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' racing
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--- Begin Message ---
Motor choices are actually growing really nice for those like yourself to
choose from. I'm surprised that you were unable to find anything concerning
them, as I have been able to link to many places devoted to selling them. There
are many places to obtain your motor but here are two I just popped up for
examples.
One maker Netgain can be found here
http://www.go-ev.com/dealers-howto.html
Rods link here would be a good place to start also.
http://www.evparts.com/firstpage.php
Im hoping more will pipe in here who sell Advances,and Warp's
and such that could help advise you as to the size you would
need to be looking for.
As for the chargers, Rich?
Good luck hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Chris Taylor Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I want badly to make some kind of
electric car. my commute is so small
it just makes sense to me to try. (7 miles each way all under 45mph)
I was thinking about a citicar but most dont work and are expensive if
they remotely work :-( plus they look cool.
I cant afford to convert a normal car. If I had 10 thousand dollars I
would not be worried about it.
so I want to custom build something. I'm figuring build something
"around" a motorcycle chassis. full enclosed with side rigger wheels to
make it stable and all weather.
so now I have some questions of which I can not answer and can not even
find the "resources" to allow me to try and answer. someone pointed me
to this list :-)
one idea was to use D Nimh cells. I can get them for $5 a pop and they
are 10amps each !! (10,000mah) maybe cheaper in bulk.
I only need a 30mile range (figure double what I need in reality to have
a buffer)
I can probably figure out most of it but 2 things. what kind of
motor/controller do I need and how in the heck do I "charge" such a thing.?
not sure how much the vehicle will weigh I figure same as it did as a
motorcycle since I will be dropping the engine but then adding batteries
and all weather shell and extensions etc.. plus my 350 pounds. so I
figure 500-550 pounds ?? lets figure 700 pounds top end all up road
weight unless I need more batteries and they end up weighing more.
if I ever get enough money converting my VW Thing to EV would be neat
but only if I could get at least a 200 mile range from it so thats not
likely to be for a while and not untill I am quite a bit better off
financially :-)
Suggestions ?
Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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--- Begin Message ---
> I used to race and I love watching races. My second EV is planned for
> autocrossing. ( lithium-ion,integrated BLDCmotor-transaxle with dog
> clutched straight cut gears, No right angle gears and paddle shifting)
Jeff,
I used to do Solo I and Solo II and just the other day I was thinking
about the feasibility of an electric Solo I car. In the SCCA SE region the
format is usually a 4 lap run and then wait for a full until you group is
called up again for your next 4 lap run. Usually several hours in between
runs [ which would give a good recharge time ]. Typically you only get 2
runs a day but the events are Sat and Sun for a total of 4 runs [ barring
delays ]. The car would have to be capable of full power over about a 10
mile length .
What sort of chassis are you going to use? I was envisioning something
like a Lotus 7 or a Mallock except have the motor in the very rear and all
the batts situated between the front and rear axle center lines. Of course
with li-on batts this is less of a concern.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:27:17 -0700, Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>> given a megabuck, oh heck, let's make it unlimited funds, tell me in
>> general terms how you'd achieve 300 mph in the quarter with an EV.
>
>looking over the specs those Lithiums might be closer to 5.6kW/kg
>Still not going to make up much of the difference.0.0056 MJ/kg
>Anyway, I guess what we're looking for, for starters is a battery
>with arround what? 1000 kW/kg (Gulp) How about Super-Caps!
Of the conventional technology, a super-cap is about the only thing I
can think of that could dump that much energy in around 4 seconds,
what it'd take to go 300 in the quarter. Since we have an unlimited
budget, other things should be considered. One thing that comes to
mind is the flywheel. I'd be interested to see some energy density
calcs for a flywheel system using the strongest known materials
(unobtainium?) Getting the energy out fast enough would be a whole
'nuther can o worms.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Where will you be without a goal, and a small step at
a time?
Get the glider ($2-3K)
Gut it. (free)
Adapter plate (750)
motor (800-1300)
etc.
Suddenly, you're done, and you managed to do it over
3-4 years, and you don't know where the money came
from. (;-p
Just a thought... (;-p
--- Chris Taylor Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I want badly to make some kind of electric car. my
> commute is so small
> it just makes sense to me to try. (7 miles each way
> all under 45mph)
>
> I was thinking about a citicar but most dont work
> and are expensive if
> they remotely work :-( plus they look cool.
>
> I cant afford to convert a normal car. If I had 10
> thousand dollars I
> would not be worried about it.
>
> so I want to custom build something. I'm figuring
> build something
> "around" a motorcycle chassis. full enclosed with
> side rigger wheels to
> make it stable and all weather.
>
> so now I have some questions of which I can not
> answer and can not even
> find the "resources" to allow me to try and answer.
> someone pointed me
> to this list :-)
>
> one idea was to use D Nimh cells. I can get them for
> $5 a pop and they
> are 10amps each !! (10,000mah) maybe cheaper in
> bulk.
>
> I only need a 30mile range (figure double what I
> need in reality to have
> a buffer)
>
> I can probably figure out most of it but 2 things.
> what kind of
> motor/controller do I need and how in the heck do I
> "charge" such a thing.?
>
> not sure how much the vehicle will weigh I figure
> same as it did as a
> motorcycle since I will be dropping the engine but
> then adding batteries
> and all weather shell and extensions etc.. plus my
> 350 pounds. so I
> figure 500-550 pounds ?? lets figure 700 pounds top
> end all up road
> weight unless I need more batteries and they end up
> weighing more.
>
> if I ever get enough money converting my VW Thing to
> EV would be neat
> but only if I could get at least a 200 mile range
> from it so thats not
> likely to be for a while and not untill I am quite a
> bit better off
> financially :-)
>
> Suggestions ?
>
> Chris Taylor
> http://www.nerys.com/
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:18:59 -0400, Chris Taylor Jr
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I want badly to make some kind of electric car. my commute is so small
>it just makes sense to me to try. (7 miles each way all under 45mph)
>
>I was thinking about a citicar but most dont work and are expensive if
>they remotely work :-( plus they look cool.
First off, I'll echo what others will say. Keep it simple on your
first car. Unless you have a LOT of experience managing NiMH
batteries, you're likely to kill the first pack and that'd be an
expensive mistake. Beginners who try to "go for the gold" on the
first try usually get bogged down and never finish the project.
I suggest taking another look at the Citi. You really don't want one
that is fully functional. Having a few problems dramatically reduces
the value. What you want is a car that has all the hard-to-replace
parts (plastic parts mainly) intact, along with a good motor and
transaxle. You can put your DIY energies to work improving over stock
as you repair. Remember, the most valuable part of the Citi is the
VIN :-)
Here is an approx breakdown of costs for my car (from memory).
The car: $500
New 72 volt pack $600*
Alltrax 72450 controller $600**
used Zivan charger $200
Motor repair $100***
New traction wiring $150****
Brake overhaul $300*****
E-meter & prescaler $400
New steel spoke tires & wheels $250
Misc $200
Not absolutely necessary but nice to have:
DC/DC converter $185
small 12 volt AGM accessory battery $50
For a grand total of: $3,535
* Sam's Club batteries, including $8/batt deposit
** I paid too much.
*** New brush pack and wiring - see my web site
**** All heavy gauge wiring, copper battery clamps
**** Still underway, currently working on fitting hydraulic trailer
brake backing plate and drum so parts will be readily available. Also,
split the brakes into modern dual circuit architecture.
The result is a very cute and functional car that will easily run
50-55 mph and do it for >35 miles on a charge. All for less than the
apparent going rate of a Citi in good condition these days. And if
you enjoy that kind of thing, it's a strong babe magnet :-) (being
single, I do!)
You'd have to buy the batteries, controller, charger and wiring
whether you built from scratch or fixed up a Citi so those costs
cancel out of the decisionmaking process. The MAJOR advantage of the
Citi over a home-built is that VIN which allows you to walk up to the
DMV plop down the title and cash and walk out with a new tag and
title, no muss, no fuss.
John
>
>I cant afford to convert a normal car. If I had 10 thousand dollars I
>would not be worried about it.
>
>so I want to custom build something. I'm figuring build something
>"around" a motorcycle chassis. full enclosed with side rigger wheels to
>make it stable and all weather.
>
>so now I have some questions of which I can not answer and can not even
>find the "resources" to allow me to try and answer. someone pointed me
>to this list :-)
>
>one idea was to use D Nimh cells. I can get them for $5 a pop and they
>are 10amps each !! (10,000mah) maybe cheaper in bulk.
>
>I only need a 30mile range (figure double what I need in reality to have
>a buffer)
>
>I can probably figure out most of it but 2 things. what kind of
>motor/controller do I need and how in the heck do I "charge" such a thing.?
>
>not sure how much the vehicle will weigh I figure same as it did as a
>motorcycle since I will be dropping the engine but then adding batteries
>and all weather shell and extensions etc.. plus my 350 pounds. so I
>figure 500-550 pounds ?? lets figure 700 pounds top end all up road
>weight unless I need more batteries and they end up weighing more.
>
>if I ever get enough money converting my VW Thing to EV would be neat
>but only if I could get at least a 200 mile range from it so thats not
>likely to be for a while and not untill I am quite a bit better off
>financially :-)
>
>Suggestions ?
>
>Chris Taylor
>http://www.nerys.com/
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> I don't follow. Once running down a DC battery is discounted, you go
> straight to alternator as the next option?
Sure. Alternators are the standard solution in 99%+ of the cars on the
road. Yes, it is crude and inelegant; but it works and comes free with
the donor car.
> A DC/DC converter can be extremely efficient, and doesn't have any
> liabilities like this. It can be mounted anywhere in a few minutes.
> What's the big concern here? Finding one with the right input range
> and current capacity?
True automotive-grade DC/DC converters are rare and expensive. So most
people are in fact using a switchmode power supply that was intended for
some other purpose.
Consumer-grade switchers are only 70-80% efficient; that's the same as a
premium truck or bus alternator.
Consumer-grade switchers are made for clean, no-vibration,
room-temperature indoor operation. They will soon fail if you mount them
where they get wet, dirty, too hot or cold, etc. Alternators work over
these extremes quite well.
> DC/DCs aren't really that complicated for a mid-level electronics
> guy to build.
Then build one! EVers need some good choices!
> I guess isolation becomes important?
Yes, it's vital.
> but still, it's not rocket science to put one together. How much
> current are we talking here? Maybe 15 amps for the headlights and
> turn signals, a couple of amps for a normal radio, ??? for power
> windows/seat?
The specs are actually pretty tough, and not easily met by generic
switchers. Here's what I think you'd need for EVs with 96-180v packs:
input
80-225 vdc
extreme transient and noise immunity (is connected to the
powerline of a 50kw motor!)
fused for DC
undervoltage and overvoltage protection, with automatic restart
low startup inrush current
output
adjustable, 13.5-14.4 vdc
0-50 amps (for older cars with few 12v loads)
0-100 amps (for newer cars and those with air conditioning,
big stereos, electric power brakes, power steering,
and other heavy 12v loads)
current limits if overloaded (i.e. does not shut down)
can charge a dead battery (i.e. full output current at 10v)
does not discharge the 12v battery if DC/DC is turned off
EMI filters so it doesn't interfere with AM radio
fused (so battery can't discharge back into output of failed
DC/DC and start a fire)
"control" input to switch DC/DC on/off or adjust its output
voltage via the car's key switch
environmental
operating -20 to +140 deg.F (-29 to +60 deg.C
standby -40 to +158 deg.F (-40 to +70 deg.C)
over/under temperature causes cutback or shutdown; auto-recovers
case sealed against mice, bugs, dust, mud, snow, condensation
Most people figure "my situation isn't that tough" and use an old RV
battery converter or surplus switching power supply. They work, but not
all that well and not all that long.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
