EV Digest 4720
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Daihatsu HVS Sports hybrid)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: NEDRA race location change?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Supplier survey
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The importance of tires?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Worst Nightmare (was: EVLN(85 Civic + batteries + Dispenza savvy
= electric car)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Need Fuses
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) plasma cutter
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: GBP (was: Lithium Battery Users?)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: IOTA power supply ... really works!
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: The importance of tires?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Supplier survey
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Help with motor rating - Units, gentlemen
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Help with motor rating - Units, gentlemen
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Metal cutting saws.. was Plasma Cutter
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: pennsylvania, everywhere
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest
dissapointment of the modern world.
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: The importance of tires?
by "Adam Kinsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Contactor Controllers (was Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks
guys)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Daihatsu HVS Sports hybrid)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/09/14/143029.html
Daihatsu Unveils HVS Hybrid Sports Car and New SUV in Frankfurt
Daihatsu Motor Co.,Ltd has issued the following press release:
Daihatsu today announced that it will exhibit three concept cars,
the D-Compact 4X4, HVS and Copen ZZ; an evolution of its compact
sports car, the Copen, with a 1.3-litre engine; an innovative
two-stroke engine technology called the 2CDDI-II and a facelift
of is flagship compact car, the Cuore, along with several of its
popular production models at the 61st Frankfurt Motor Show (IAA),
which runs from 13 September to 25 September.
[...]
World Premiere: HVS (Hybrid Vehicle Sports) Concept
1. Concept Delivering powerful and exciting driving experience of
a 2.0-litre car with better fuel economy than a 1.0-litre car,
and high-speed cornering performance using electromagnetic
torque-control mechanisms that work on the right and left rear
wheels independently Have you ever thought that although
sports cars are cool, the fun of driving is not a high
priority when you think about the environment?
Reconciling environmental compatibility and sporty driving is not
actually a difficult thing. By employing a hybrid technology,
Daihatsu has achieved excellent environmental compatibility
together with quick acceleration and the excitement of sports car
driving. The HVS (Hybrid Vehicle Sports) pursues the utility and
economy of the compact car while at the same time achieving the
excitement of a sports car. It reconciles the joy of driving a
sports car and the need to protect the environment at a high
level. Its a new lightweight sports car born out of Daihatsus
passion to create a truly environmentally friendly compact sports
car.
2. A hybrid system and a new 1.5-litre DVVT engine A hybrid
system optimised for sports driving (achieving both a low fuel
consumption of 4.1 litres/100 km and quick standing start
acceleration) The HVSs power unit is an advanced hybrid
system that combines two motors in the front plus an
additional motor in the rear. This electrically operated 4WD
transmits torque to the wheels with minimum loss to deliver a
safe driving performance.
Thanks to its lightweight compact body and the use of hybrid
technology, the HVS boasts a fuel consumption of only 4.1
litres/100 km (EU combined mode) and CO2 emissions of only 101
g/km both amazingly low for a sports car.
Combined with this hybrid unit is a newly developed 1.5-litre
petrol engine with DVVT. Fine tuned for the HVS, this engine runs
on premium petrol and is equipped with a special design muffler.
The HVS delivers powerful standing start and overtaking
acceleration in the low to medium speed range as well as lasting
acceleration even at high speed. Whatever your speed range, this
engine lets you enjoy sports driving with stress-free
acceleration and power to spare. Its an ideal power unit for a
lightweight sports car.
2005-09-14 Please quote Autoindex.org if You use this news
article!
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not a nedra member but I think the Big race each year should be in the middle
of the country making it easier for travel.Denver is a great track where
records would be easy to obtain due to the altitude.For the same setings as in
Phoenix the current eliminator can be 6 mph quicker. Dennis Berube
Just a lithum pack and 2 weeks away from a 7 second qt.mi.run(here in
Phoenix)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Hello everyone,
>
>Anyone have any experience with the following Supplier
>
>ElectroCraft Systems out of Toronto, Ontario
>
>http://www.interlog.com/~dgv/
A friend of mine attempted to buy an EV charger from them a few years ago.
He is not using it. I think I recall him telling me that they were never able
to
deliver one that was correctly configured for his battery. I'll have to find
out
what happened, and whether he was able to get his money back.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Sep 2005 at 10:50, stu wrote:
> Yesterday I replaced the OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5 speed
> coupe with ...
> On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
> could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of
> a different car.
>
> It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
Please forgive me for answering a question with another question, but what
does this have to do with EVs?
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That one paragraph is actually my worst nightmare:
> For a decade his project never got past being a pile of parts and a
> derelict car that moved with him from place to place
bruce parmenter wrote:
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/news/local/12649394.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, there is no such thing as 200ADC fuse. It is arbitrary rating
for certain time to blow at that rated current.
In theory a *200A* fuse should work indefinitely at 199A and blow
in instant at 201A. No fuse works like that, if you look at the
curves for 200A fuse you'll see that it will sustain, say, 170A
indefinitely, blow at 180A in 60 seconds, at 190A in 5 sec,
at 200A in 1 sec, at 250A at 0.1sec. So take your pick.
The point is, don't look specifically for 180A fuse if 170A is
available. It will take a bit less time to blow, but the fuse is for
emergency only, you're guaranteed it to blow in currents *around*
that number. You're not planning routinely use 170A currents with
180A rated fuse, do you?
Victor
James Massey wrote:
At 09:49 PM 14/09/05 -0500, Jeff Wilson wrote:
I've been looking all over trying to find 180amp 200vdc fuses for my
E-10.
Voltage isn't so much the issue as amperage. Does anyone have any idea
where these can be had? I've seen everything from 100 up to 800 in 50
and
100 amp increments but have been unable to locate 180 amp fuses. Help!!
Hi Jeff
A 200A fuse will blow slightly later than a 180A fuse. Make sure that
the fuse you get is rated for the DC voltage, or it may not 'clear' and
cause a fire. What happened to the previous fuse? if it 'random failed'
a 200A fuse may be more appropriate anyway.
James
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
my personal feeling is that I don't like chop saws.
the saw makes a lot of mess and the smoke gives me
chest pains, the blades tend to wander, ands the cuts
have nasty flanges on them. That being said, it will
do the job in a pinch. The trick is that the saw needs
enough power to do the job. It doesn't really cut but
burn it's way through. There should be enough power to
produce enough heat to burn the iron. You should have
a huge spray of sparks coming out. If there is not
enough power/speed the metal will just soften and clog
the blade. At this point you need to let up on the
pressure and cut more slowly. With the underpowered
saws I tend to press and let up, press and let up. and
allow the blade to gain some enertia to do the work.
with a properly power saw you can just push right
through. A better solution is a chop saw with a
carbide tipped metal cutting blade. These will work in
a normal chop saw but work best in a chop saw designed
for metal cutting. The saws are almost identical but
the blades runs at about half the rpm. The blades are
more expensive that the abrasive ones but I have used
the same two that I bought with the machine 2 years
ago with the occasional tooth replacement and
sharpening. The saw was more expensive than the
abrasive one but was been much cheaper in the long
run. (seems true of most things, does't it?)
Gadget
> Reverend Gadget:
>
> What's your take on 14" chop saws:
>
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44829
>
I've got one of these that I bought from HF. The
abrasive blades that
HF
sells are pure [EMAIL PROTECTED] One cut through angle iron and
the blade ends up
loaded up with metal and starts melting the metal
instead of cutting.
I switched to a Dewalt blade and it works ok. Still
tends to load up
with
metal. I think maybe the saw turns to slow or slows
down too much when
cutting. Doesn't seem to matter how much, or how
little, preasure I
use
when cutting.
I suppose it's possible that I'm doing something
wrong.
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OH! You got that right. The letters are square to the picture frame but the
building is angled back from bottom to top. There is no way those letters
are on that building...
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Osmo Sarin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 6:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: GBP (was: Lithium Battery Users?)
Don´t know anything about this GBP, but take a look at the picture of
the building in the "Company profile" page: I think the letters GBP
were added to the picture afterwards...
Osmo
15.9.2005 kello 12:34, Lawrie, Robin kirjoitti:
Another link to a lithium battery supplier:
>
> Http://www.gbp-battery.com
>
> Hadnt heard of them till a couple of days ago, and have mailed them.
> Got a quote back of $130 for a 40 ah cell. Im waiting for
> clarification
> on the performance of these cells, since they include a simple bms like
> device on each cell.
>
> Trouble is I saw this post on the thundersky users group by Sam
> Thurber:
>
>
> "We've purchased a sample order from this company with
> very bad results. The company is a scam / shell
> operation. The chinese portion is just a reseller of
> someone elses product. They will want you to wire
> money to a Hong Kong shell company whose phone number
> is an answering service. Then they will request full
> payment before shipment and will not accept a Letter
> of Credit but may accept a local inspection (at a
> hotel). If you do attempt to do business with them.
> Make sure you meet them in person and take possesion
> of all the product in person before payment. We
> ordered 60AH cells and were sent 18AH cells and do not
> expect to get the matter resolved. Local police do not
> know of the company in China. It is likely a transient
> backyard operation."
>
>
> If that's the case then people should be made aware here too..
>
>
> Anyone else know anything of these guys?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I emailed meanwell about their PSP-300-13.5, which specifically mentions
in the data sheet about using with DC. Notice I have a typo in my
original email where I say "... goes below 12VDC" should read "... goes
below 127VDC".
These items are 300Watts, 13.5VDC out, and about $200.
http://www.power-factor-1st.com/shop/enclosed-switching-power-supplies/parallel-series/psp-300.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Poulsen
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 11:30 PM
To: David Tung
Subject: Question regarding the PSP-300-13.5
Hi,
When using the PSP-300-13.5 with a DC input, I understand the output
load will be derated as the input voltage drops.
The lowest input voltage mentioned on the data sheet is 127VDC. What
happens if the voltage goes below 12VDC? Is the output further
derated, or does the unit shut down because of undervoltage? Is there
an undervoltage shutdown point? If not, do you have derating curves for
voltages under 127VDC?
Thank you for your time.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Tung
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 8:34 AM
To: marvin
Subject: FW: Question regarding the PSP-300-13.5
Hi Eric,
Sorry for the delay reply.
PSP-300-13.5 can operate at down to 80VDC of input voltage.
Power derating for DC input can just follow the derating slope on second
page of spec sheet.
That is, slope= (100%-80%) / (155√2 - 88√2) = about decrease 0.2% of
output power per ONE VDC of input voltage.
Sincerely,
Marvin Chuang
Technical Service Department
Mean Well Taiwan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
www.meanwell.com <http://www.meanwell.com>
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Of course we are all looking for the perfect EV-purpose DC/DC, but until
then, I'm going with the IOTA's. In fact, I might just opt to use them
even if there was another alternative - 110 amps for around $300 is hard
to beat.
I'm still curious why no one has used one of these yet? Check out the
"500 watt" model:
DC input voltage (90 to 370 VDC)
Output: 12 volts, 40 Amps or 15 volts, 32 Amps
$280
http://www.powerstream.com/DC-HV.htm
I'm going to mount it in the vehicle where it won't get wet or dirty.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David, respectfully, this has much to do with EV's. Almost all EV's have
tires, and tire knowledge and experience (although general to all
wheeled vehicles and not EV-specific) is V-specific.
IMHO.
I'd like to learn more about optimizations made and efficiencies
obtained by other EV'ers (and most of that info would probably come from
dragster mavens :-)
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 15 Sep 2005 at 10:50, stu wrote:
Yesterday I replaced the OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5 speed
coupe with ...
On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of
a different car.
It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
Please forgive me for answering a question with another question, but what
does this have to do with EVs?
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've asked about this supplier within the last year, so check the archives.
A few folks had some reservations.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Supplier survey
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:12:51 -0400, Stefano Landi
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
>Anyone have any experience with the following Supplier
>
>ElectroCraft Systems out of Toronto, Ontario
>
>http://www.interlog.com/~dgv/
>
>I just got a quote from them for a controller, pot box, DC to DC converter
>and a charger. Pretty good prices and would be much better for my
>budget-minded conversion given the exchange rate, shipping, duty and so
>forth. However, before I go that route I'd like to know if anyone has had
>any experience with them?
Nifty, though I wouldn't touch that accelerator pedal pot box. What
kind of prices?
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>When Jim gave the motor specs, he probably meant " 5 ft-lb torque"
instead
of "5 lb load". Is that right, Jim?
Correct. Sorry for any misunderstandings, as us shop rats just refer to it as
a load test. Learning daily, thanks for the links and info. I set up AOL here
at the shop using my cousins account so I can get a little reading in during
lunch. Dial up how quaint, I get to read two postings B4 lunch is over. : )
GTG
Jim
Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim, and John -
This will all make more sense after the units are straightened out.
One Horsepower is actually 550 ft-lb / second ( not 550 ft-lb, or 550
ft/lb).
Torque is measure in ft-lbs. ( not ft/lbs).
Don't confuse torque ( ft-lb) with HP ( ft-lb/sec).
If you know the torque and RPM, you can calculate the horsepower this way :
Power ( in hp) = speed ( in RPM ) x torque ( in ft-lbs) / 5252
You can see where this comes from at
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
When Jim gave the motor specs, he probably meant " 5 ft-lb torque" instead
of "5 lb load". Is that right, Jim?
If it was 5 ft-lb torque, , that would mean that at 2500 RPM and 5 ft-lb
torque, the motor was producing 2500 x 5 / 5252 HP, or about 2.4 HP.
The power into the motor was 36 V x 75 A = 2700 watts. That equals
2700/746 HP = 3.6 HP. ( 1 HP equals 746 watts)
That means that at that speed and torque the motor's efficiency is 2.4 HP /
3.6 HP = 67 %. That sounds low, but the motor is pretty lightly loaded,
so the efficiency would be low. ( With no exteral load, the efficiency
would be zero, since the motor is producing no power)
Phil
>From: Jim Husted
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Help with motor rating Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:13:05 -0700
>(PDT)
>
>Your MKU motor is wound series in the field coils. For a faster motor at X
>current you could replumb the coils to flow series parallel. 550 foot
>pound = 1 HP don't add up here as John Wayland says he is pushing around
>that amount at 348 volt with two motors. The Corvette he raced last race
>was stated to have 410 HP and over 400 foot pounds. Use the free spin data
>to see where you stand as at least you will know that all is working per
>factory. The rest will be up to you (and group) to determine what that
>motor will carry and the voltage needed for your speed / range goals.
>Hope this helps
>Jim
>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Thank-you for the info, so now I am confused (still), I haven't got a clue
>to the 5 lb load. Is that 5 ft/lbs of torque and how do I get that
>amplified to any usable power? As I read all the things it takes 550
>ft/lbs for 1 HP. Also @24V and 20A that works out to 480 watts or
>480/746=.64HP and @36V and 75A works out to 3.6HP.
>
>The controller I have is rated 24-48V and I may be able to get to 36 or 48
>if I use 12V batteries. I know there is not enough room to put 8 ea 6s in
>there.
>
>I have made a heroic assumption that this is a series field motor, is that
>true? The Prime Mover had a GE EV-1 control and I am not fully clear on
>what I ended up taking out of the unit. I have traced the wiring, but the
>EV-1 is an unknown "black box" on my sketch with too many power wires for
>my
>simple logic. (A1,P,A2,T1,N possibly not in that order)
>
>I'll try cross posting this onto the list as well in case it can help
>anyone
>else.
>
>Thanks,
>John
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jim Husted
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:35 PM
>Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
>
>
>Hey John
>Thought I'd get you those test specs for the MKU. The L600 manual says that
>motor should run at these specs.
>24 volts @ 20 amps @ 4400 RPM's @ no load
>36 volts @ 75 amps @ 2500 to 2760 RPM's @ 5 lbs load
>These motors had an OEM volt rating of 24 to 48 volts
>so if you were to run it at 12 volts @ no load you should be around 2500 to
>3000 RPMs and still around 20 amps + -.
>
>Hope this helps
>Jim Husted
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>I was able to get in a few hours this weekend on the motor and have gotten
>it back together. I had to take the shaft down about .018" and the end bell
>out to 55mm and also make the pocket .060" deeper. Sorry for the mixed
>measurements, but I didn't keep the notes over the several work sessions. I
>am pleased with the result as it spins by hand very easily with the brushes
>lifted.
>
>I hooked it up to my old Snap-on charger and the shaft actually turned
>some.
>I didn't check the voltage or speed as I didn't want to let it run too long
>as the charger is in need of some work. I just replaced the selenium
>rectifier in it (fried) with a selenium stack that I had laying around and
>the voltage is some where down around 11 volts due to the multiple diode
>drops.
>
>As for the shaft I think if all else fails, I can try making a sprocket or
>hub with 6 keyways in it. Just start with the minor diameter of the spline
>and space the keyways around the circle.
>
>I have good intentions like everyone else to create a diary of the
>conversion to put it up on my website, we'll just have to see if time and
>desire keep up. At least so far I have been taking pictures of anything I
>think might be of interest to anyone else.
>
>John Neiswanger
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jim Husted
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:45 PM
>Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
>
>
>Hey John
>Good to talk to you
>MKU I know them well and will look up what prestolite says it should run.
>It should power that rig pretty nicely. That looks like a pretty nice ride
>and I would like to see pics as you go through developement to finished. If
>you are unable to get that plate to work, I have some good salvage plates
>that might work well as candidates. Second, if you can not find a shaft I
>could install a more user friendly shaft into that armature for you to tap
>into. What you have in mind sound good though,just thought I'd offer you
>some options if all does not go as planned, as there are many way you can
>skin that cat so to speak. I thought your motor had no numbers on it so I
>thought pic. Although it took you effort, we got to meet and I got to see
>yet another EV. Way cool good luck and I'll try to get to you what I can
>find out to you. My general feel is that although it may not be the fastest
>EV out there that motor should do well and you will be turning heads in no
>time. Good luck. And thank you for your kind words.
>
>Jim
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>Thank-you for the offer. Attached is a picture of the motor, the end bell
>and just for fun the proposed donor vehicle. I do have a part number on the
>motor of MKU-4005 which Prestolite reports as an "out of production model"
>with no info available. It was removed from a Prime Mover stock picker as
>the main drive motor and the front bearing is in the gearbox and was on the
>outside of a helical gear that slipped onto the motor shaft. I was able to
>get a bearing at the local bearing house 55mm X 30mm which is just 3mm
>larger OD than the Oil seal that was in the end bell. I am intending to
>turn the end bell out to take the bearing which should get the front of the
>armature supported. The shaft is a 6 spline by 1" which I haven't tried to
>locate a sprocket/hub/connector for yet.
>
>In response to your post to the list this evening, I for one, appreciate
>all
>of your input and would have thought you were one of the charter members if
>not told otherwise.
>
>Thank-you for any information you are able to provide on this motor or
>project.
>respectfully,
>John
>John Neiswanger
>Industrial Electronics
>Gridley, CA
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Husted"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:46 PM
>Subject: Re: Help with motor rating
>
>
> > If you can get a pic forwarded to me I would probably recognizes it. If
>I
>do I can look some spec's up from the prestolite L600 service book.
> >
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi_Torque Electric
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have a Prestolite 24 volt motor and am unable to get any information
>from
> > them as it is so old. Is there some safe and hopefully simple way to
>find
> > the RPM and power capabilities of this motor. I want to use it in a
> > motorcycle conversion at either 24 or 36 volts. It is 7&1/4" diameter
>and
> > 11" long if that gives any clues.
> >
> > respectfully,
> > John Neiswanger
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim and All,
A couple of things, most series motors make about 1 ftlb of
torque for 10amps if rpm is about 3000 at rated power that we usually use as a
rule of thumb. If rated at 1500 rpm, about 2ftlbs/10 amps, ect. YMMV
Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>When Jim gave the motor specs, he probably meant " 5 ft-lb torque"
instead
of "5 lb load". Is that right, Jim?
Correct. Sorry for any misunderstandings, as us shop rats just refer to it as a
load test. Learning daily, thanks for the links and info. I set up AOL here at
the shop using my cousins account so I can get a little reading in during
lunch. Dial up how quaint, I get to read two postings B4 lunch is over. : )
GTG
Jim
Philip Marino
wrote:
Jim, and John -
This will all make more sense after the units are straightened out.
One Horsepower is actually 550 ft-lb / second ( not 550 ft-lb, or 550
ft/lb).
One thing missing is it is 550 lbs of LIFT 1' in 1sec equal a
hp.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Torque is measure in ft-lbs. ( not ft/lbs).
Don't confuse torque ( ft-lb) with HP ( ft-lb/sec).
If you know the torque and RPM, you can calculate the horsepower this way :
Power ( in hp) = speed ( in RPM ) x torque ( in ft-lbs) / 5252
You can see where this comes from at
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
When Jim gave the motor specs, he probably meant " 5 ft-lb torque" instead
of "5 lb load". Is that right, Jim?
If it was 5 ft-lb torque, , that would mean that at 2500 RPM and 5 ft-lb
torque, the motor was producing 2500 x 5 / 5252 HP, or about 2.4 HP.
The power into the motor was 36 V x 75 A = 2700 watts. That equals
2700/746 HP = 3.6 HP. ( 1 HP equals 746 watts)
That means that at that speed and torque the motor's efficiency is 2.4 HP /
3.6 HP = 67 %. That sounds low, but the motor is pretty lightly loaded,
so the efficiency would be low. ( With no exteral load, the efficiency
would be zero, since the motor is producing no power)
Phil
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:13:42 -0500, Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>The TV programs always show people cutting steel with a toothed blade
>(sometimes water cooled)... I am not sure what they are using. Wonder
>if it works any better.
The place where I buy my cut stock from has a huge, probably 3 ft
diameter blade, slow speed chop saw. The blade turns slowly, probably
only a couple hundred RPM, but each tooth seems to take out a eighth
of a inch of stock. It is almost silent and leaves very little burr.
Probably dreadfully expensive too.
I have used the "friction blade" in a circle saw with decent results
on thin stock. This is the smooth toothless metal blade with several
radial slots. It cuts similar to a cutting torch. The friction
against the smooth rim heats the metal to the burning point and the
grooves pump in air.
I've also tried the high speed metal cutting saw that uses a toothed
blade. It cuts but it's not for me. The chips are heavy enough to
retain enough heat to painfully burn wherever they hit and the thing
is loud.
I do freehand stuff with either the PortaBand or plasma torch and
dimensional stuff in the abrasive chop saw. I keep a big bench
grinder running when I'm chop sawing so that I can immediately remove
the rather viscous burr that it produces.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
I lived in Co Spgs and am still a member of the DEVC, a very active EV
organization with George Gless. I'm now in Roanoke, VA since 91' and there
are a couple more EV'ers here like Doc Kennedy in Floyd and Brian Walsh of
Solar Connexion. There's an active EAA in Wash DC with Dave Goldstein as
well. I initially started with a cheese wedge aka Commuta-Car, then drove
an 89' Metro converted, a Geo Tracker and now the bomb (Bombardier in
progress).
Have a Renewable Energy Day.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: pennsylvania
> Location: Denver, Colorado. I have my first EV on the road (72 volt of
AGMs
> stuffed into a Kawasaki Ninja). Designing the next one.
>
> I am not alone. 130 active members in the local EV club (currently
> unaffiliated with EAA) made up of commercial sponsors (e.g. 2 large
electric
> utilities, one battery distributor, solar energy supplier/installer),
individual
> hobbyist types (like me) interested in BEVs, HEVs, PHEVs and renewable
energy
> (NREL is close by), and finally we have a number of political members
(e.g. clean
> cities, state representatives, etc.)
>
> What folks outside the state might not know. Two large local cities in
> Colorado are big supporters of green technologies, Boulder and Fort
Collins. Want
> a little diversion...look at what the New Belgian Brewing Company (famous
> locally for Fat Tire beer) is up to at
_http://www.newbelgium.com/story.php_
> (http://www.newbelgium.com/story.php) and click on the sustainability
link.
>
> Did you know there are at least 2 RAV4-EVs located in Colorado? Did you
know
> that Hybrid Electric Vehicles are selling very well in Colorado? Did you
> think that the only EVers were located on the left and right coasts?
>
> Lots of Electrathon racing in Kansas, Colorado, Nebraska, and Iowa.
>
> Side note: the people that ask me the most questions and show the most
> enthusiasm about seeing my EV on the road are under 20 or over 45 years
old. Few
> preconceived notions, open minds and the wisdom that comes with age.
>
> Mike Bachand
> Denver Electric Vehicle Council
> Boulder, Colorado
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear John,
(Sounds like a "Dear John" letter, huh).
After driving different EV's over the years, I have reached the conclusion
that a minimalist approach is the most cost effective one, less batteries,
lightweight 2-seater (hopefully well-built) in the 45-55mph range for going
to & from work. This solution makes EV's cost competitive with fossil fuels
etc. Electrifying a tractor trailer as you mentioned would be silly of
course.
BTW, anytime you buy a house at least make sure the long windowed side is
facing south, this costs nothing and saves you a bunch as passive solar and
thermal active solar is very cost effective with short payback especially if
you are willing to do the work. With my electric rates doubling this year,
by next year it may be cost justified to install some more photovoltaics
(presently just an UPS for power outages) to charge my EV etc.
Have a Renewable Energy Day,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of
the modern world.
> John, $2k savings per year doesn't sound unreasonable to me, depending on
> where you live. I think you're in TN, right? I, however, live in UT, at
> 6000 ft. elevation. I have a 3300 sq. ft. home built in 1995, with 6-inch
> exterior wall insulation, Tyvek, radiant floor heat, etc. So it's no
energy
> waster. In the winter, I spend well over $300 per month in gas to heat
> it--probably over $400 this coming year with price increases. Utah is a
> sunny place, though, even when the weather is cold, and my home faces SW.
I
> did some calculations on the amount of insolation we get per day, and I
> don't think that $2000/year fuel cost savings would be out of line.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Neon John
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment
of
> the modern world.
>
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >I've been heating my hot tub, water and half my space heating and
> >living in passive/active solar homes for the last 20 years in Colorado
and
> Virginia.
> >If the house is pointed south, the 8 (4x8) panels I built & plumbing,
> >$2k total paid back in one year.
>
> How can you possibly claim a $2k payback in one year? What kind of
wasteful
> house do you have? Even in my ancient concrete block 6800 sq ft building,
> gas heat has cost no more than $100/month max and that's only for a couple
> of months of the year. Even if NG doubles this year and the sun shown
most
> of the time, I couldn't save $2k in a year. My mom's 30 year old 2400 sq
ft
> ranch costs only around $40/month to heat water and air in the winter.
She
> keeps her place a lot hotter than I do mine.
>
> I covered my roof with solar water heater panels on my first house back in
> the mid 70s. They worked great with hot water to burn when the sun shown.
> That was spring, summer and part of fall. In the winter they sucked
> bilgewater. In this part of the country, cloud cover socks in and remains
> for weeks at a time. I'd have been showering in very cold water had I not
> kept my gas backup heater.
>
> >Also getting hydrogen from natural gas costs twice as much per energy
> >stored as natural gas and wastes 30 in the process.
> >This was from Air Corp at EVS-21 who makes H2 for NASA and now for the
> >financial black hole "hydrogen economy".
>
> You sound like that guy from IBM who predicted that there was a worldwide
> demand for maybe 50 computers back in the 50s. His myopia was so severe
> that he could not imagine anything beyond the present.
>
> I have no idea (well, really I do but that's off topic here) what the
> breakthroughs might be but I've observed some sort of Moore's Law at work
in
> just about every place there's been a national will (NOT government will.)
>
> While of interest, end use efficiency takes a back seat to distribution
> efficiency. Simple economics. If it can't be gotten to the consumer
> efficiently, 100% end use efficiency is of no matter.
> Arguing about it here won't change things.
>
> I believe that the use of hydrogen as the energy transport mechanism will
> come about simply because of infrastructure factors and because it is
> scaleable to almost any size. I'm not enamored with the technology but
> frankly I can't think of anything more viable.
>
> Before you bleat "EVs", explain to me how you're going to make a BEV semi
> tractor that meet the 40 ton weight limit, go 600 miles between refueling
> (12 hours of service * 50 mph), refuel in 8 hours and still have any cargo
> capacity. Then explain to me how you'd generate, transport and serve up
the
> electrical energy equivalent of the couple hundred thousand gallons of
> diesel a typical truck stop pumps each day.
>
> For that matter, tell me how you're going to make the family car go, say,
> 300 miles at 75 mph on a charge and "refuel" in the time it takes for a
piss
> break during my trip from here to the west coast. Then again, tell me how
> you're going to serve up the energy equivalent of the gasoline a major
> interstate gas station pumps in a day. (Something makes me think an
average
> of 50k gallons but I'm not sure and I'm not going to look it up.) I'd
wait
> 15 minutes, maybe even 30 minutes every 300 miles but I'm not sure how
many
> others would.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is the payback for removing lead paint from your kid's room? Anything we
can do to reduce oil consumption will help keep troops out of wars and money
out of oil "producers" pockets.
-HH
> Hmm, 24k for a system with a payback measured in decades, if ever?
> Practical to you, maybe but probably not for most others.
>
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> they both seem to have the usual AC "torsion" shaft
> drive where the armature shaft is a tube internally splined
> at the back end and the splined stub you see is actually a
> floating shaft that goes thru the generator and drives the
> armature from the "back" so to speak. I have seen this on
> many AC generators and have never really come up with a good
> reason for doing it this way except as either a cost cutting
> move (need a larger/smaller shaft you could just put the
> right one in) or more likely as a psuedo "flex" drive.
(For those wondering, "AC" means "aircraft" in this case.)
My understanding is that the aircraft starter/generators use this
arrangement so that there is a long skinny shaft connecting the motor to
its load/prime mover. If the motor generator siezes the shaft will snap
and allow the engine to continue turning. It may also act as a shock
absorbing torsion bar when the starter is initially fired up.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both sets of tire have the same overall diameter; the sidewall height of 60
series tires, but the new ones are 195mm wide compared to 185 that will be
10 mm wider. I don't think that you will notice any difference in fuel
consumption, except maybe worse mileage due to more rolling resistance
(wider tires).
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of stu
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:51 AM
To: EV
Subject: The importance of tires?
Yesterday I replaced the Goodyear 185/60/15 OEM tires on my 2001 Ford ZX2 5
speed coupe with Falken 195/60/15 Ziex ZE-512 tires.
I never wore out a set of tires in 22,000 miles before and I was very
disappointed with the original set.
I went up one tire size to add 4% diameter for increased gas economy and to
correct my 4% error in the speedometer/odometer.
I bought the tires on EBay for $185 delivered into my garage and had a buddy
mount and balance them for $20.
On the ride home I was amazed! The car was smoother, and much quieter. I
could not believe that by just changing the tires I would get the feel of a
different car.
It is a real eye opener for me. Has this ever happened to you?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:36:27 -0600, "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>John, $2k savings per year doesn't sound unreasonable to me, depending on
>where you live. I think you're in TN, right? I, however, live in UT, at
>6000 ft. elevation. I have a 3300 sq. ft. home built in 1995, with 6-inch
>exterior wall insulation, Tyvek, radiant floor heat, etc. So it's no energy
>waster. In the winter, I spend well over $300 per month in gas to heat
>it--probably over $400 this coming year with price increases. Utah is a
>sunny place, though, even when the weather is cold, and my home faces SW. I
>did some calculations on the amount of insolation we get per day, and I
>don't think that $2000/year fuel cost savings would be out of line.
How much gas does that work out to? I don't have any feel for weather
out there but I did spend 3 years in Pa. I owned a 100 year old
apartment building. After the first $1000/month oil bill, I yanked
out the geezer oil boiler and installed individual gas boilers. My
gas bill in my 1500 sq ft apartment with no insulation other than the
horsehair in the plaster :-) ran under $300/mo even in the coldest
blizzard conditions. That was 20 years ago but still....
Not doubting your word, just trying to grasp that high a heating bill
for a reasonably sized energy efficient home. I'm still having a real
hard time accepting the concept that solar heat can save $2k in a
year. I think I'd have to see the actual data.
Yes, I'm in Southeast TN. Our climate is very temperate but varies
quite a bit. The 2 ft of snow during the blizzard of 92 is one
extreme, a week of single digit temperatures 2 years ago another and
last winter's barely reaching freezing yet another. The major problem
as far as heating goes is the weeks at a time of dense cloud cover.
This stuff hangs close in, makes everything a dull gray and probably
sends the sales of Prozac through the roof. Solar panels just sorta
sit there going "duh". Not even any passive solar heating under those
conditions.
I do use some solar heat in the summer. I have my restaurant's
plumbing arranged so I can toss a hundred feet of black 1" industrial
rubber hose on my flat tar roof and cut it in the hot water path. That
supplies enough hot water for hand and clothes washing and most of
what I use washing dishes. That's about as cheap a solar heater as
one can make :-) Couple hundred bux for the hose and fittings.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My suspicion is for a low performance budget conversion EV
> built today a salvaged 48 Volt SCR forklift controller
> might make a better option.
> Does anyone know if the GE EV-1 SCR controllers can
> be easily setup to run on 72 volts?
If one instead used a GE EV-1 controller out of a Jet 007 or similar
conversion they would be all set. These vehicles typically ran 96-120V
and the EV-1 controllers in them will take up to 144V and run down to at
least 1/2 of nominal pack voltage.
I've got a 48V EV-1 and a couple of 120V ones, so could (theoretically
at least) identify the component differences. However, these
controllers consist of 2 main parts: the control card and the power
"panel". The control card may need modification to run on a different
pack voltage since it derives its supply voltage from the pack. The
power panel at a minimum would likely require different commutation
caps, and if you have tried to price these you will discover that a new
set of caps can cost most of the price of a Curtis or Altrax controller.
Beyond that, the power stage consists of a single (huge) main SCR, a
smaller SCR (or two?), and a couple of large diodes. While these parts
may all have numbers on them, I suspect it will be nearly impossible to
locate datasheets for them and the only recourse one might have is to
try to buy the higher voltage parts from a shop that services EV-1
controls.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
