EV Digest 4761
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Bradley EV
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Asking for witnesses (was: Which Nedra class? )
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bradley EV
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: World Solar Challenge, Comments
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: World Solar Challenge, - Patents
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Asking for witnesses (was: Which Nedra class? )
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Adjustable timing 8-inch motor - correction and photos
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: White Zombie Electrifies PIR ...12.424 @ 103.57 mph!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Bought Tires, got a funny coupon in the mail.
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Battery pack circuit breakers
by Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Battery pack circuit breakers
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 87 s10 bought last nite at Speedworld
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Shortened drive motor
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris and All,
Chris Buresh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is anyone familiar with the Bradley kit cars made in MN in the 70s?
Yes.
Did they make turnkey EV versions?
Yes
I've found one for sale and would like to know if the list has any historical
knowledge of the quality and basic designs of these cars.
It varies from very good to bad and depends on how well it was cared
for as they are about 25-30 yrs old.
But I have seen a couple very nice ones but check it out well before
you buy. they are hard to get into and tend to leak unless well done.
Melbourne High School, Fla has a very good one they display amoung
others.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--
Chris Buresh
St. Paul, MN
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The problem is, the tale that Dennis is telling (to everyone that will
listen) is a fabrication made of whole cloth.
Please keep this personal beef off the EVDL! We already have a
reputation as a community for infighting, and you are furthering that
stereotype. This is an informational forum, not a soapbox for public
attacks and accusations.
Please keep this in PRIVATE EMAIL or feel free to vent in the soapbox
forum that was set up for this kind of poo flinging:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scootersoapbox
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Osmo, 1LH5118 is synchronous PM motor, not induction one. While having
the same power, peak torque may not be as much as for induction
motors. If you get me basic specs on your 206, I'll simulate performance
for you and can tell you exactly what it will be (for 18 kW induction
motor) so you can estimate performance for 15 kW synchronous one.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
Osmo, the New Beetle accelerates 0-50kmh in under 6 seconds on the flats.
It weighs 1700kg loaded and has a Siemens 5133 that is 30kW nominal and 78kw
peak, with the Simovert short controller.
The New Beetle has reasonable acceleration up hills. If I could do it
again, I would convert a lighter vehicle. Less power required for
acceleration and hill climbing.
When I was trying to determine a motor/controller combination for the New
Beetle, Victor recommended the 5105WS12 which is a smaller 18kW rated motor.
He indicated that any of the motors will put out the max power of the
inverter. The larger size motor is needed for longer hills. I have two
such particular hills in my area and am pleased with the combination I have
purchased.
Maybe Victor can comment.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Osmo Sarin
Sent: September 24, 2005 1:16 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
...sorry I forgot to add US units. Here´s the message again:
-------
I´m planning to convert Peugeot 206 as my first project, and I´ve been
offered a Siemens 1LH5118 AC motor with 15 kW rated, 123 Nm max, and
Simovert 6SV1 short inverter (110-380 V, max DC 280 A, max 80 kW).
According to my own calculations (which may be incorrect) I would need much
more power, but the seller says 15 kW is enough for my requirements, which
are:
-total weight (with passengers) 1400 kg (3090 lbs) -top speed 110 km/h (68
mph) -acceleration 6 sec 0-50 km/h (0-31 mph) = normal ICE-acc.
-voltage about 300 V
I´d appreciate any comments,
Osmo Sarin
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Sep 2005 at 16:58, Chris Buresh wrote:
> Is anyone familiar with the Bradley kit cars made in MN in the 70s? Did
> they make turnkey EV versions?
I hope Darryl McMahon's won't object if I quote the Bradley entry from his
very useful EV History page at
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evhistry.htm
"Bradley was known for producing fibreglass body kits for converting VW
Beetle chassis to a low slung sportster with gull-wing doors, known as the
Bradley GT. In the wake of the 1970's OPEC oil squeeze, they also provided
a package of components that permitted conversion of the vehicle to electric
power - mating an electric motor to the original manual transmission. Bradley
did build some of these cars themselves for sale as turnkey vehicles ready to
be driven by the purchaser. These electric versions were known as the
Bradley GTE (the "E" suffix for electric). The also produced a Ford T-
Bird (Thunderbird) replicar called the Veebird, that was also available in an
electric version."
Thus, any given specimen could be a factory EV, but it might also be a
homebuilt one with the electric kit installed. I honestly doubt that there's
much practical difference.
The components used were pretty typical conversion parts from the era. I
don't know for sure that all the cars were the same, but the one I saw had a
GE series motor (~20hp, I think), a PMC DCC-96 shoebox controller (using
bipolar transistors and discrete logic), and 96 volts of flooded golf car
batteries. I think the charger was a Lestronic II, but this was over 15 years
ago and I may be confusing it with another EV.
In any case, they were about as reliable and efficient as any other conversion
EV using those components. Today such a car would be a good candidate
for updating. Lester chargers are usually good for the long run, and Lester
still supports them. With luck, the motor should still be OK too. However, I'd
be very surprised if that original controller were still working today, and
spares for it are apparently rather difficult to find. (I may still have a
schematic if you want to try.)
I can't really provide any input about the build quality of the body and
running
gear.
Hope this helps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/24/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For example, a standard 120vac 60hz induction motor can be operated on
> other voltages and frequencies. Let's say you have a 1hp 120vac 60hz
> motor -- what happens if you operate it at 120vac 50hz?
Well a motor designed for an EV has to operate at a pretty wide range
of speeds, and that is achieved by varying the frequency a lot, right?
So I would guess these motors are much more tolerant of different
frequencies than typical stationary motors. How would they achieve
that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Peter,
This was back in the sixtys! I read this in either a science digest or popular
science magazine at the time. It may be that some form of this was invented by
someone else and he was not granted one.
But the Swiss ETEL is real, just search for ETEL motors in your search engine,
and you will come up ETEL motors and source of supply for.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge, Comments
> A permanent magnet rotor is use which are normally call BRUSHLESS MOTORS.
> They are having SWISS ETEL design these motors for this aircraft.
>
> This design was built and tested in 1966 by a student of electrical
> engineering here in the USA. It consisted of a fiberglass coil form with
> the magnet wires wound around the outside surface. The rotor was a
> permanent magnet rotor.
>
> He tried to patent it back then, but was turn down because the patent
> office engineers said it did not work and was too BIG to be practical. A
> hand held electric drill would have to have a crane to carry it around.
>
Can you site a reference for that story? Seems like BS to me, I've never
heard the patent office refusing to patent something because "it's not
practical" and there are thousands of patents given out for devices that
not only don't work, but CAN'T work (they violate numerous laws of
physics).
Like I said, sounds this story sounds fishy.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
If you or NEDRA are going to "interpret" the class that a car fits into on a
case by case basis, you are going to kill the incentive to build new cars or
to run under NEDRA sanction. We need hard and fast rules that we can build
cars to so we have the confidence that when we are ready to run that it
won't be reclassified because of someones "opinion". Just because a car
"pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something to
be looked down upon. Isn't pushing the envelope what leads to new
developments? Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as
they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly or
often. I have seen cars around Phx like your gutted Chevy driving to the
soda fountain, out to dinner etc. Not particularly comfortable or practical
but street legal they are. And they are most definately street legal. The
Police make damn sure of that, LOL. IMHO, if its got a vin# and a current
licence plate and registration, it is steet legal. And as far as I can tell,
that is NEDRAs current defination of SC. Please correct me if I am wrong.
For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even tho
I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool.
Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or tub
it so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for
the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain. BTW, I
am sorry but I cannot remember, what class does "Postal" run in? I am not
trying to be a smartass, I just havn't noticed and didn't see it on the
NEDRA site anywhere.
Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition of
SC and MC? And the differances between the two? This is pretty much what
Dennis was trying to ascertain and what I was looking for over a year ago
when I asked about a Citicar that I was thinking of running. And so far as I
can tell neither of us has gotten an answer yet that we can use.
David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?
> Rich Rudman said: "And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both
> NEDRA and Madman's100 compliant."
>
> I am assuming Rich that you are referring to your own ethereal 100 mph
club.
> I really don't believe Dennis's truck would fall into your original
intended
> rules for your 100 mph club. On May 16th of 2004 you posted to the list:
>
> The point is TO HAVE A daily driver, that is 100 mph capable on the strip.
> It's one of the hardest things to do. And I want it to stay exclusive.
Light
> dragsters, and tube frame Evs, should do it no problem. Doing it with a
> commuter and lead powered is Haaarrrd!! The point of any street Rod is
drive
> to the soda fountain, or for some dinner, then have fun on the way home.
>
> Dennis Berube wrote:
>
> If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fitted
in
> such a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with a
lic.
> and insurance which class would it belong to in nedra?
>
> A vehicle built like this has been discussed at NEDRA board meetings
before.
> The idea I had was for a class called Xtreme Street which would have the
> designation XS. So if you were a high voltage car you would be XS/A When I
> went to the Wayland Invitational Saturday Night Street Legal Drags at PIR
I
> was parked next to a fully gutted chevy that was tubbed and had 14" wide
> wrinkle walls with grooves to make them street legal. It ran wheelie bars
> and turned 9 second ETs. This may be the NHRA version of a street legal
car
> but I believe NEDRA might look at it differently. We made the modified
> conversion category to handle cars that were beyond daily drivers. At that
> time no one had put the money and time to build a vehicle such as Dennis
> describes except for "The Ghia Monster" www.ghiamonster.com which is
> currently still under construction. I personally would love to see Dennis
or
> anyone else build a car like this to push the EV envelope and the EV
> movement. I am sure that a category for these vehicles will be established
> by NEDRA at some point. It is great to see the interest in EV drag racing
> growing.
>
> Roderick wilde
> NEDRA President
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 9/23/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mainly by altering magnetic characteristics (other than
mechanical design of course). The motors have to have
low enough inductance to get decent current to flow at high
frequencies (where inductive resistance rise), yet
have lamination material properties to prevent saturation
at near zero RPM. Of course balancing at 12k RPM is quite
different from that for 3,550 RPM, and so is the bearing
construction, associated shaft material with predictable
temp expansion (requiring floating bearings) and other
tricks.
This is one of the reasons they cost as much as they do,
and it is not just because the volume production is low.
If this would be the case, but the motors nevertheless would
not be *tat* different from 60 Hz ones, they would still
cost more but not *that much* more as they do.
Also, of course all depends who builds the motors, reputation
of the company and "added value" of reliable operation,
(how tough" they are) and good warranty terms.
All else being equal, don't expect the motots built in
Switzerland or Germany to be the same than those built in
China.
Victor
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
On 9/24/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For example, a standard 120vac 60hz induction motor can be operated on
other voltages and frequencies. Let's say you have a 1hp 120vac 60hz
motor -- what happens if you operate it at 120vac 50hz?
Well a motor designed for an EV has to operate at a pretty wide range
of speeds, and that is achieved by varying the frequency a lot, right?
So I would guess these motors are much more tolerant of different
frequencies than typical stationary motors. How would they achieve
that?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Phil,
I read about this either in one of the science or popular science magazines
back in the 60's. He did not get a patent granted to him, because it may be
too similar to already existing devices like a reactor coil.
In the communication field, I build communication coils, where I tuned it by
sliding a magnetic or iron core threw it. I know I could not get a patent on
this, because it's already invented.
I WAS REFUSED A PATENT APPLICATION FOR A DEVICE I MADE AND TESTED BACK IN THE
70's.
It was a control system that can operated a ICE engine and a EV system as a
series hybrid that selected either of the prime movers at the highest effiency.
Back then, they said, there is no market for this device. This was a patent
search company that approaches companies with the product to see if it
feasible.
I than seal up all this info and had it sent to myself threw the U.S. Register
Mail which they again seal it. Its still seal today. This gives a proof date.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Marino<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge, - Patents
>From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>
>He tried to patent it back then, but was turn down because the patent
>office engineers said it did not work and was too BIG to be practical. A
>hand held electric drill would have to have a crane to carry it aroud
>
If you're talking about the US patent office, this is not likely. The
practicality or even usefulness of an invention is not considered by the
patent office when applying for a patent. And, generally, the patent office
does not even require an invention to work. They certainly never do any
testing.
Almost all of their work is determining just that it is novel (has not been
invented, used, or disclosed before).
Did you hear this directly from the inventor, or is this third or fourth
hand information?
Phil Marino
20-something patents (so far)
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/<http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:18:36 -0400, "Phil Marino"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bill
>
>This is not of general interest to ev'ers. Please take if off list or drop
>it.
>
Hey, this is kinda fun. Like attending a virtual cock fight. As long
as they don't draw too much blood, I'd not mind watching :-)
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Coming back to your own message about "right" customer, the customer
> who can accept "modest" reduction in performance and efficiency is
> not a target customer for BRUSA.
Yes; I agree completely. Brusa (and Siemens, and AC Propulsion, and GM's
EV1, and the other automaker's AC EVs, and the solar race cars, etc.)
are all in the high-performance, high-cost end of the market. That's
where they want to be, and where they want their customers.
>> If you want peak performance and efficiency, then you match the
>> motor and controller.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Who wouldn't want the peak performance and efficiency?
Someone who cares more about cost! I happen to think this means 9 out of
10 people. They may be short-sighted, and will pay more in the long run,
but that's their opinion. They will buy NOTHING until they can get it
cheap.
That's why it's good that there are these old DC brushed motors and
cheap PWM controllers. The "cheapskates" can still build and drive EVs.
They will learn, and move up to something better!
That's also why it's too bad there are no cheap simple AC drives. They
would provide a lower-cost entry into what is bound to be the long-term
future of electric vehicle drive systems.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I noticed a 7% speed increase on my EM after advancing timing from 0 to 10
degrees. I was only trying to suppress brush arcing, but the speed boost
was a welcome side benefit. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Adjustable timing 8-inch motor - correction and photos
Hey Mark
Yes speed will increase as you advance but so do amps. So the ABR allows
you to find a happy medium in relationship of your voltage, motor, and
load. The higher the voltage the higher the need to time the brushes to
prevent comm. arcing. You will lose some low end torque but will see more
high end speed.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was curious, if you advance the timing say 7 degrees will the top speed
increase? I guess a way to test would be to operate at 12V and move the
timing back and forth to find the highest speed.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: Adjustable timing 8-inch motor - correction and photos
At 01:45 AM 23/09/05 -0700, Doug Weathers wrote:
>In an attempt to make it up to you, I took some pictures and posted
>them on my website. Enjoy.
>
>> >timing-motor/>
Which didn't work because Doug put a space in where there wasn't one,
this
works:
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/static/galleries/variable-timing-mo
tor/
James
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, your Mac's battery has been flat for too long.
This your email is dated Dec. 31 1969...
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
The title says it all! The 12.424 came on the 5th run of 7 total runs
...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So my Saturn conversion had the tires which had been on it for several years.
They were weather cracked, so they had maybe 30 miles put on them before I
promptly had them recycled and fresh rubber put on. I took it to the Goodyear
store where I kind of know the people there, which afforded me a 10% discount!
So today I got this in the mail and found it rather hillarious.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricksuiter/album?.dir=/5db6
I'm sure they send this to all of their customers.
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I find your post extremely insulting! David, what part of left field are you
coming from? There was no mention in my post of NEDRA reclassifying cars
because of someone's "opinion" as you state. How did you interpret that from
my post? When we initially made the classes we did the best we could with
the knowledge we had at the time. The NHRA has gone through many changes.
Bracket racing did not start in 1953 at the inception of the NHRA. It came
much later when the competition was so stiff that it would cost you an
additional ten grand for a tenth of a second. You further state: "Yes NHRA
from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but from
what they have told me they do not do this lightly or often." The last major
rule change that I can think of that the NHRA did was to allow electric cars
and motorcycles to race on NHRA tracks. Until 1999 the rule book stated that
you must have an internal combustion engine. Bill Dube and myself lobbied
the NHRA on behalf of NEDRA and got that rule changed to allow electric
motorcycles and electric cars. Dennis Berube personally got a battery rule
changed in the NHRA rule book just for his own vehicle. So tell me Mr. NEDRA
expert, when was the last time NEDRA made any major rule changes? The only
ones I can think of off the top of my head were when we decided to align
ourselves with the NHRA rules. This brought about dropping go carts and
class 64 vehicles due to NHRA safety regulations. It was not brought about
by "opinions" or any prejudice toward any particular vehicle or person,
period.You also stated: "Just because a car "pushes the envelope" of a class
doesn't automatically make it something to be looked down upon." What
recesses of your mind did you pull this one from. I stated I would love to
see Dennis or anyone else push the envelope of EV drag racing. Where did you
get this "looked down upon" attitude. This is pure BS. I have always been
pro EV performance and everyone on this list who's been here for a while
knows that.
You further state: "For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a
no problem SC. Even tho I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a
Ford 9" and a spool." You know you got me on this one. I can't remember a
single Datsun coming out with a Zilla and two Warp 8" motors either. whod a
thunk it!
You ask: "Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise
definition of SC and MC? And the differances between the two?" This is a
valid question and I will admit that the NEDRA site does not go into more
detail than street Conversions (SC) are street legal and Modified
Conversions (MC) are not due to things like wrinkle wall slicks that aren't
DOT approved. I agree with you that we need to clarify these rules but you
also make the point that if we do we will be perceived as trying to
"reclassify cars due to opinions". Actually the NEDRA board has recently
been discussing making the class rules clearer. NEDRA is an all volunteer
organization and it is easy for all the sideline quarterbacks to criticize
when a few are doing all the thankless work.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
PS: I first brought up the XS class over three or four years ago when
thinking of building an all out plastic street bodied, tube chassis, ultra
lightweight multi motored electric. I brought it up because I thought it
would not be fair for me to run against MC cars. The purpose of having
classes is to try to make the playing field more fair for all the
participants.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?
Rod,
If you or NEDRA are going to "interpret" the class that a car fits into on
a
case by case basis, you are going to kill the incentive to build new cars
or
to run under NEDRA sanction. We need hard and fast rules that we can build
cars to so we have the confidence that when we are ready to run that it
won't be reclassified because of someones "opinion". Just because a car
"pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something
to
be looked down upon. Isn't pushing the envelope what leads to new
developments? Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them
as
they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly
or
often. I have seen cars around Phx like your gutted Chevy driving to the
soda fountain, out to dinner etc. Not particularly comfortable or
practical
but street legal they are. And they are most definately street legal. The
Police make damn sure of that, LOL. IMHO, if its got a vin# and a current
licence plate and registration, it is steet legal. And as far as I can
tell,
that is NEDRAs current defination of SC. Please correct me if I am wrong.
For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even
tho
I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool.
Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or
tub
it so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for
the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain. BTW, I
am sorry but I cannot remember, what class does "Postal" run in? I am not
trying to be a smartass, I just havn't noticed and didn't see it on the
NEDRA site anywhere.
Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition
of
SC and MC? And the differances between the two? This is pretty much what
Dennis was trying to ascertain and what I was looking for over a year ago
when I asked about a Citicar that I was thinking of running. And so far as
I
can tell neither of us has gotten an answer yet that we can use.
David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?
Rich Rudman said: "And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both
NEDRA and Madman's100 compliant."
I am assuming Rich that you are referring to your own ethereal 100 mph
club.
I really don't believe Dennis's truck would fall into your original
intended
rules for your 100 mph club. On May 16th of 2004 you posted to the list:
The point is TO HAVE A daily driver, that is 100 mph capable on the
strip.
It's one of the hardest things to do. And I want it to stay exclusive.
Light
dragsters, and tube frame Evs, should do it no problem. Doing it with a
commuter and lead powered is Haaarrrd!! The point of any street Rod is
drive
to the soda fountain, or for some dinner, then have fun on the way home.
Dennis Berube wrote:
If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fitted
in
such a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with a
lic.
and insurance which class would it belong to in nedra?
A vehicle built like this has been discussed at NEDRA board meetings
before.
The idea I had was for a class called Xtreme Street which would have the
designation XS. So if you were a high voltage car you would be XS/A When
I
went to the Wayland Invitational Saturday Night Street Legal Drags at PIR
I
was parked next to a fully gutted chevy that was tubbed and had 14" wide
wrinkle walls with grooves to make them street legal. It ran wheelie bars
and turned 9 second ETs. This may be the NHRA version of a street legal
car
but I believe NEDRA might look at it differently. We made the modified
conversion category to handle cars that were beyond daily drivers. At
that
time no one had put the money and time to build a vehicle such as Dennis
describes except for "The Ghia Monster" www.ghiamonster.com which is
currently still under construction. I personally would love to see Dennis
or
anyone else build a car like this to push the EV envelope and the EV
movement. I am sure that a category for these vehicles will be
established
by NEDRA at some point. It is great to see the interest in EV drag racing
growing.
Roderick wilde
NEDRA President
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--- Begin Message ---
I have some circuit breakers which are about 60% of the voltage rating of my
(proposed) battery pack. I'm thinking about using two in series
so the rating of the breakers excedes the pack voltage. That in turn caused me
to consider putting the different breakers in different spots in
the pack - basically splitting the pack into 3 sections (plus a separate fuse
for the controller.) What am I missing?
Kluge
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they're not mechanically coupled, so that they both open at the same
time, it is most likely that only one will open in case of a fault. Then,
that one breaker will see the entire pack voltage. It would be over its
rated voltage spec, and may arc, fuse, etc.
Phil
From: Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery pack circuit breakers
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:31:48 -0700
I have some circuit breakers which are about 60% of the voltage rating of
my (proposed) battery pack. I'm thinking about using two in series
so the rating of the breakers excedes the pack voltage. That in turn
caused me to consider putting the different breakers in different spots in
the pack - basically splitting the pack into 3 sections (plus a separate
fuse for the controller.) What am I missing?
Kluge
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kilowatt wrote:
> **I agree,I got spoiled driving my ranger ev but it was far from a 99mph vech.
Were the motors in it 99+mph capable in the 1/4 if it had an inverter
upgrade and AGM's or some other battery?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
I like your ideas. This has stirred a thought in my head If I eliminate
the internal fan in my motor I could shorten the housing accordingly.
The only problem I see with this is the holes that were the outlet for
the fan before will be eliminated. So I would drill some new holes to
let the air out to cool the motor. Would I be screwing up the magnetic
lines of force from the fields if I were to drill holes in the case
between the field windings.
Thanks for any input.
Mike G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, come on guys if you keep this up I won't have time to watch Jerry
Springer this week. Then again, instead of taking it offline, perhaps
someone oughta give Jerry a call :-)
damon
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:04:03 -0700
I find your post extremely insulting! David, what part of left field are
you coming from? There was no mention in my post of NEDRA reclassifying
cars because of someone's "opinion" as you state. How did you interpret
that from my post? When we initially made the classes we did the best we
could with the knowledge we had at the time. The NHRA has gone through many
changes. Bracket racing did not start in 1953 at the inception of the NHRA.
It came much later when the competition was so stiff that it would cost you
an additional ten grand for a tenth of a second. You further state: "Yes
NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but
from what they have told me they do not do this lightly or often." The last
major rule change that I can think of that the NHRA did was to allow
electric cars and motorcycles to race on NHRA tracks. Until 1999 the rule
book stated that you must have an internal combustion engine. Bill Dube and
myself lobbied the NHRA on behalf of NEDRA and got that rule changed to
allow electric motorcycles and electric cars. Dennis Berube personally got
a battery rule changed in the NHRA rule book just for his own vehicle. So
tell me Mr. NEDRA expert, when was the last time NEDRA made any major rule
changes? The only ones I can think of off the top of my head were when we
decided to align ourselves with the NHRA rules. This brought about dropping
go carts and class 64 vehicles due to NHRA safety regulations. It was not
brought about by "opinions" or any prejudice toward any particular vehicle
or person, period.You also stated: "Just because a car "pushes the
envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something to be looked
down upon." What recesses of your mind did you pull this one from. I stated
I would love to see Dennis or anyone else push the envelope of EV drag
racing. Where did you get this "looked down upon" attitude. This is pure
BS. I have always been pro EV performance and everyone on this list who's
been here for a while knows that.
You further state: "For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a
no problem SC. Even tho I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a
Ford 9" and a spool." You know you got me on this one. I can't remember a
single Datsun coming out with a Zilla and two Warp 8" motors either. whod a
thunk it!
You ask: "Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise
definition of SC and MC? And the differances between the two?" This is a
valid question and I will admit that the NEDRA site does not go into more
detail than street Conversions (SC) are street legal and Modified
Conversions (MC) are not due to things like wrinkle wall slicks that aren't
DOT approved. I agree with you that we need to clarify these rules but you
also make the point that if we do we will be perceived as trying to
"reclassify cars due to opinions". Actually the NEDRA board has recently
been discussing making the class rules clearer. NEDRA is an all volunteer
organization and it is easy for all the sideline quarterbacks to criticize
when a few are doing all the thankless work.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
PS: I first brought up the XS class over three or four years ago when
thinking of building an all out plastic street bodied, tube chassis, ultra
lightweight multi motored electric. I brought it up because I thought it
would not be fair for me to run against MC cars. The purpose of having
classes is to try to make the playing field more fair for all the
participants.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?
Rod,
If you or NEDRA are going to "interpret" the class that a car fits into on
a
case by case basis, you are going to kill the incentive to build new cars
or
to run under NEDRA sanction. We need hard and fast rules that we can build
cars to so we have the confidence that when we are ready to run that it
won't be reclassified because of someones "opinion". Just because a car
"pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something
to
be looked down upon. Isn't pushing the envelope what leads to new
developments? Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them
as
they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly
or
often. I have seen cars around Phx like your gutted Chevy driving to the
soda fountain, out to dinner etc. Not particularly comfortable or
practical
but street legal they are. And they are most definately street legal. The
Police make damn sure of that, LOL. IMHO, if its got a vin# and a current
licence plate and registration, it is steet legal. And as far as I can
tell,
that is NEDRAs current defination of SC. Please correct me if I am wrong.
For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even
tho
I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool.
Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or
tub
it so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for
the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain. BTW, I
am sorry but I cannot remember, what class does "Postal" run in? I am not
trying to be a smartass, I just havn't noticed and didn't see it on the
NEDRA site anywhere.
Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition
of
SC and MC? And the differances between the two? This is pretty much what
Dennis was trying to ascertain and what I was looking for over a year ago
when I asked about a Citicar that I was thinking of running. And so far as
I
can tell neither of us has gotten an answer yet that we can use.
David Chapman.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?
Rich Rudman said: "And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both
NEDRA and Madman's100 compliant."
I am assuming Rich that you are referring to your own ethereal 100 mph
club.
I really don't believe Dennis's truck would fall into your original
intended
rules for your 100 mph club. On May 16th of 2004 you posted to the list:
The point is TO HAVE A daily driver, that is 100 mph capable on the
strip.
It's one of the hardest things to do. And I want it to stay exclusive.
Light
dragsters, and tube frame Evs, should do it no problem. Doing it with a
commuter and lead powered is Haaarrrd!! The point of any street Rod is
drive
to the soda fountain, or for some dinner, then have fun on the way home.
Dennis Berube wrote:
If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fitted
in
such a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with a
lic.
and insurance which class would it belong to in nedra?
A vehicle built like this has been discussed at NEDRA board meetings
before.
The idea I had was for a class called Xtreme Street which would have the
designation XS. So if you were a high voltage car you would be XS/A When
I
went to the Wayland Invitational Saturday Night Street Legal Drags at PIR
I
was parked next to a fully gutted chevy that was tubbed and had 14" wide
wrinkle walls with grooves to make them street legal. It ran wheelie bars
and turned 9 second ETs. This may be the NHRA version of a street legal
car
but I believe NEDRA might look at it differently. We made the modified
conversion category to handle cars that were beyond daily drivers. At
that
time no one had put the money and time to build a vehicle such as Dennis
describes except for "The Ghia Monster" www.ghiamonster.com which is
currently still under construction. I personally would love to see Dennis
or
anyone else build a car like this to push the EV envelope and the EV
movement. I am sure that a category for these vehicles will be
established
by NEDRA at some point. It is great to see the interest in EV drag racing
growing.
Roderick wilde
NEDRA President
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