EV Digest 4769
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: World Solar Challenge
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Capacitor Drag Racing Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Another NEDRA rule question
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: World Solar Challenge
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Another NEDRA rule question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Financing a conversion?
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: World Solar Challenge
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Sydney EV meeting
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Capacitor Drag Racing Idea
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: battery explosion
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Vintage parts info wanted
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: S/P motor, was: RE: White Zombie...
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Wanted - information on DC motor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Wanted - EV Book
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) And Finally - Wanted GE EV-1B Control Card 5H9 or 6H9
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: building from scratch
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Siemens EV Motors
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: World Solar Challenge......, question.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Advice on getting motorcycle glider for an EV
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Wanted - information on DC motor
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Brent and Kent (Savethesaltflats@ aol.com, and
<http://www.savethesaltflats.com>) want to do solar electric racing
on the Salt Flats. Solar panels could also go on the underside of the
car and catch reflected light.
A twist on the idea I had: Allow the solar panels to also be used as
sails.
I have done the math, and it would be tough to power a practical car
with solar panels. Boats, however, seem a perfect niche for solar
panels. Many are operated on waterways with a 5 or 10 mph speed
limit. Make a big solar array that doubles as a sail and you could
really go.
<http://www.lightupthenet.com/2005/04/solar_powered_s.html>
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> That said, I'm a bit worried that the solar racers focus too much
> on
> "racing" and not enough on "solar". Too much competition and focus
> on
> winning -- no matter what it costs. And too little innovation and
> experimentation. The cars are basically the same; same solar cells,
> same
> motors, same controllers, same batteries, same tires. Nearly all
> the
> teams just buy these parts; they didn't design or build them. There
> isn't much innovation going on.
> ...
______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok gang; here's another capacitor idea.
The field of a series motor takes relatively little power -- like 1% of
the total. Yet it has a big influence on the torque-speed curve of the
motor.
Normally, the field is directly in series with the armature, so both
*must* have the same current. This produces the standard series motor
characteristics we all know and love/hate; very high starting torque,
but torque falls off very fast as speed increases.
Field weakening has long been used to alter a series motor's
characteristics. Shunt some of the current away with a resistor, and you
weaken the field; the motor produces less torque per amp but runs
faster.
But what if you connected a CAPACITOR in parallel with the field?
Because it's a low-voltage high-current winding, the capacitor would
also have to be a low-voltage high-current part -- ideally suited to a
supercapacitor.
Let's assume a contactor controller, or PWM controller with a separate
inductor so it's not depending on the field inductance.
At any constant speed, motor performance is unchanged. The capacitor
simply sits at whatever the voltage is across the series field.
Now suppose you "step on the throttle" to double the voltage being
applied to the motor. A normal series motor behaves like a resistor; 2x
the voltage makes it draw 2x the current. You're now putting 4x the
power into the motor; and so making 4x the horsepower. The rpm won't
change instantly, so the torque goes up 4x.
With that capacitor across the field, the field voltage and thus field
current won't change. The fixed field current makes it behave like a PM
motor; the armature voltage doubles, and the armature current will go up
by a *large* amount! The motor draws all the current it can get trying
to instantly accellerate to the new rpm demanded by the new voltage and
field current. In other words, you get STRONGER accelleration!
Something even more interesting will happen when you reduce the
accellerator pedal. Suppose you've been driving at a constant high speed
long enough so the capacitor voltage has had time to stabilize. Now you
release the accellerator to cut the motor voltage in half. As above, the
instantaneous field current will not change because of the capacitor
across it. With a fixed field current, it again behaves like a PM motor;
the armature voltage tries to stay the same. So the armature current
will reverse -- the motor becomes a generator! If you have a contactor
controller, it can pass current in either direction, so you get
regenerative braking as the generated current flows back into the
battery. If you have a PWM controller, it will block the reverse current
unless its freewheel diode is also a transistor.
This PM-like behaviour will only last for a short time -- roughly the RC
time constant of the supercapacitor and the field winding's resistance.
For instance, with a 2700 farad capacitor and 0.01 ohm field, it lasts
2700 x0.01 = 27 seconds.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Hump wrote:
Is John's Siamese 8 one motor or two?
I say it's one motor.
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hi Hump,
This is only my opinion, the final decision would come from our tech
director but I would feel that since it is on a single armature shaft
and there is no coupling I would personally call it a single custom
made motor with two commutators.
Roderick Wilde
I too, consider it one motor, since the housing is bolted together as
one piece with a custom machined center section and it's been modified
to the extent to where the separated pieces can't be used as two
separate motor housings anymore (one section is different than the
other). It also has, as Rod points out, a single custom designed and
machined stainless steel armature shaft that both armatures are pressed
onto. It has one output shaft, no couplers of any kind, and one fan that
cools the entire assembly. For what it's worth, I call it a 'dual
armature motor' which is very close to Rod's 'single custom made motor
with two commutators'. I also list it as a single motor in all my
writings and posts.
I would happily accept any redefinition NEDRA comes up with in regards
to rules and or regs governing such things. It's actually cooler to say
the car has two motors, especially when talking tech stuff with the gas
dudes at the track (two motors sounds more macho than one motor to these
guys), but I don't think that's an accurate description anymore.
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sharks-
yeah, let's see:
1) money---there are folks on this list who justify spending on amazing
things, including ultracaps and experimental batteries. The limiting factor
with solar on a car is the surface area---with 11% efficient solar cell
technology, you're looking at about $4/watt and about 10watts/sqft, so back
to my example: why are so few EVers interested in showing their EVness by
spending $4/watt * 10w/sqft, or $40/sqft to cover the average 20-30sqft or
so of hard top coupe roofline with a custom, aerodynamic 200-300w integrated
solar array? That's about a $1k investment, or about what it costs for
floodede batteries in a low cost conversion. Surely this can't be about
money when some are justifying $5-10k+ for batteries in some cases.
2) weight---solar racers with their integrated custom arrays are not heavy.
Their arrays generate a killowatt. One guy could lift the array. Solar
cells are extremely light---and extremely fragile. There's the rub.
Commercial panels are heavy due to the non-exotic heavy substrate to keep
the cells from bending and the glass and aluminum framing. Solar car arrays
are typically composed of a rigid, but light backing structure, a thermally
conductive bonding compound (silicone derivatives are typical), the cells
and interconnects, and an encapsulation layer. They're not as rugged or
necessarily flat as commercial arrays, but neither are they then confined to
flat surfaces, in fact, in solar cars these arrays are integrated into not
only very curved surfaces, but arguably add very little to aerodynamic
drag---something someone already mentioned here as a downside. Again, don't
think of commercial arrays---think lots of cells, individually mounted and
embedded into a substrate and the entire array sealed. It ain't easy, but
college kids are doing this. Surely seasoned EVers can handle it.
> On 2005-09-26, Myles Twete wrote:
> > Probably not, but I ask this: why are so few EVers at all
> interested in integrating solar arrays into the bodies, or at least the
> roof, of their car conversions?
>
> Because the money and weight would be better spent on batteries.
>
> -----sharks
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would call it a 'twin com' as a spoof or parallel of the 'twin cam' that
is posted on the sides or trunk of some ICE cars.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Another NEDRA rule question
> Hi Hump,
>
> This is only my opinion, the final decision would come from our tech
> director but I would feel that since it is on a single armature shaft and
> there is no coupling I would personally call it a single custom made motor
> with two commutators.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:36 AM
> Subject: Another NEDRA rule question
>
>
> >
> > Is John's Siamese 8 one motor or two?
> >
> > I say it's one motor.
> >
> > Why do I ask? Because Electric Jr Dragsters are limited to one motor.
Not
> > that I'm thinking of needing more than one, but it's nice to know.
> >
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date:
9/26/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
If I might make an ever-so-humble suggestion, forget the debt. Save
your money and when you have enough, pay cash.
Maybe they'll finance a Tango --- the VIN'll match ;-)
Yeah, I can probably come up with alternative means, it's just more
work, pain and time consuming...
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-27, Myles Twete wrote:
>
> 1) money---there are folks on this list who justify spending on amazing
> things, including ultracaps and experimental batteries.
That's not my point. I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't or
won't spend their money, just that it's unlikely that they'll get
more range by spending it on solar panels than they would by spending
it on more/better batteries.
Plucking some numbers out of a local supplier of solar and EV kit:
BP Solar Panels (assuming 5h peak insolation) :
AU$700 / (80W * 5h) = AU$1.75 / Wh
Gel-Tech Batteries (assuming 40% DoD):
AU$300 / (12V * 80Ah * .4) = AU$0.78 / Wh
+ recharging them at AU$0.00013 / Wh.
So, even on the sunniest of imaginable days, the batteries
are going to be a better use of your money.
I'll grant you that the solar cells are lighter per Wh though,
so if you live in Death Valley and commute at noon in an
ultralight vehicle ...
> why are so few EVers interested in showing their EVness [...]
Well, that's part of it. I honestly don't give a rats about
"showing my EVness". Zooming silently past the petrol station
is enough for me ...
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Woo Hoo!
I'm there, EV and all.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Claudio Natoli
Sent: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 11:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Sydney EV meeting
Dear listers and lurkers (particularly those in and around Sydney...
Australia, that is :-)
Doctor Michael Symons has organised a meeting for Sydney EVers, and has
asked me to pass the details on.
The meeting will be held at:
8pm Tue, October 4th
Party Room, McDonalds Bella Vista
6 Celebration Drive, Bella Vista
(in the Norwest Homemaker centre just off Old Windsor Rd; if using an
older map, it is at the corner of Lexington and Edgewater Drives, Bella
Vista)
A number of EVers (and EVs!) will be in attendance. Please come along if
you can.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wouldn't you just prefer to have a controller that used PWM to shunt
current away from the field?
I don't know the values of capacitance and inductances involved, but an
inductor and capacitor in parallel has a resonant frequency and will
ring out at that freq whenever the current changes. This may be
undesirable.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
With that capacitor across the field, the field voltage and thus field
current won't change. The fixed field current makes it behave like a PM
motor; the armature voltage doubles, and the armature current will go up
by a *large* amount! The motor draws all the current it can get trying
to instantly accellerate to the new rpm demanded by the new voltage and
field current. In other words, you get STRONGER accelleration!
Something even more interesting will happen when you reduce the
accellerator pedal. Suppose you've been driving at a constant high speed
long enough so the capacitor voltage has had time to stabilize. Now you
release the accellerator to cut the motor voltage in half. As above, the
instantaneous field current will not change because of the capacitor
across it. With a fixed field current, it again behaves like a PM motor;
the armature voltage tries to stay the same. So the armature current
will reverse -- the motor becomes a generator! If you have a contactor
controller, it can pass current in either direction, so you get
regenerative braking as the generated current flows back into the
battery. If you have a PWM controller, it will block the reverse current
unless its freewheel diode is also a transistor.
This PM-like behaviour will only last for a short time -- roughly the RC
time constant of the supercapacitor and the field winding's resistance.
For instance, with a 2700 farad capacitor and 0.01 ohm field, it lasts
2700 x0.01 = 27 seconds.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey,
Thanks for the input.
I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on that
led.
I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following
conflicting information
Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware
Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs
( see web page http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm)
Then there is this FAQ from Trojan
What is the proper torque value for my battery connections?
Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs
Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs
LPT 95-105 in-lbs
Stud 120-180 in-lbs
LT 100-120 in-lbs>
VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs
LT 100-120 in-lbs
WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post breakage,
post meltdown, and fire.
(see web page
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx
The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an
insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the
wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I
digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split in
various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap in
place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word)
I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries
have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one piece.
The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore
but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no
surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good
connection. I had to make all new leads.
Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us.
Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was hooked
up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting to
see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse.
Thanks
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:20 PM 27/09/05 -0700, Pete wrote:
I have acquired 2 pieces of vintage EV equipment
First is the Siemens motor, a big brute, with a number
Can't help you with the part number, but if you can describe number of
brushes, size of brushes, number of commutator bars and overall motor
dimensions, there are those on this list who can make an educated guess as
to the capability of the motor.
Second item is the Lester charger rated at 108 volts.
I believe that you have described a ferro-resonant charger. If you peer
into it you will see a big transformer with a bunch of wires, two of which
will go to a capacitor (can-thing) and nowhere else. Two will go to a
rectifier (finned thing) that has two other wired that end up going to the
battery (probably via another transformer-looking thing that only has two
wires - a choke [aka inductor]). Fuse/(es) will be in this wiring as well.
If it is able to be set for other voltages there is likely to be a terminal
block in the wiring between the transformer and the rectifier.
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:01 PM 27/09/05 +1000, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:
> Someone suggested P/S a battery pack, but that would be ... unhealthy, to
> say the least - massive inrush currents to the controller, have to
> precharge again for the doubled voltage.
*waves* that was me! Written under the assumption that I'd have to
build a controller to handle it anyway, and that the S/P switchover
would be _after_ any big capacitors.
A semi-contactor controller, really ...
*waves back* proof that there are many more than one way to do things.
Something that I have been thinking of for a while, is what would happen if
you had the fields rewound with taps in them. For example, my motor has 4
field windings. I don't know how many turns, but say 11 turns per winding.
If one end of each is brought out to a stud, and a tap at, say, 4 turns,
you would be able to do the following:
Using 4 low-voltage contactors (say 24V ex-forklift ones) when you are
ready for high RPM you can short the 4 turns of each field, turning the
11-turns into 7 turns. 34% weaker field, all the current still going in the
motor.
Whether it'd be worth it over a bypass of the whole field windings with a
resistor is debateable. At least you'd have predictable results.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/28/05, djsharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mounting PVs on vehicles with limited surface areas and the need to
> mount them flat (at least whilst moving) is less preferred than locating
> them in optimised fixed locations. Here the energy produced can be fed
> into the grid for later recovery or stored directly in batteries. I have
> heard that solar challenge PVs are sometimes damaged during the events.
> They are fragile things. I have 3kW of PV on a roof & am planning 1.6kW
> more. This is to power my house but it is not enough to charge my EV as
> well.
PV modules, of the sort that you mount on your roof, are actually very
tough. I imagine that the cells used on solar racers are optimised
more for weight and the ability to flexed to fit the body of the car,
so are probably more fragile.
I have 1kW of PV on a tracking array, grid connected. This only
produces enough to run my EV for about 2500 miles per year, but then,
that's not much PV and a large heavy van EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Saturday, I plan to go out and select the drive motor from the many that
my friend has available at his repair shop. He typically works only on
industrial equipment, but he knows a great deal about motors and rebuilding
them. As
far as EV's go, he has very little knowledge. I want to be sure I get
something that is capable of propelling the Geo Metro with decent acceleration,
but
not so big that I need a massive battery pack that the car can't accommodate.
Does anyone have any specific information on RFE industrial motors so that I
can pick a good one. Right now, I am going with "a series wound motor as big
as I can pick up which should give me an 80 - 90 lb list motor ~ 7.5"
diameter" - very roughly. What brand is best? Should I stick with name plates
reading 36 V, or opt for the 36 / 48 V. Again, I want to be sure that I can
actually power the thing. Also, it has to be physically small enough that I
can
handle it and get it in the car. He offered me a motor that is 14 - 18"
diameter,
48 V, and probably can generate a max of 150+ HP. I know that is too big,
but what do I really need?
Thanks,
Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To go along with my new motor, I need to design an adapter plate. I am a
Mechanical Engineer with access to CAD stations and a machine shop needed to
construct it. But, I need some specific reference information on what people
have
done in the past for adapter plates and couplings. Which book is best -
Convert It? How to Convert to an Electric Car? Design and Build Your Own
Electric Vehicles? I already have Bob Brant's book, but it doesn't give
detailed
construction details for those parts. Can anyone recommend which book is best
for the very detailed fabrication information that I need. Anyone have a copy
that they want to sell me.
Thanks,
Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Finally, I am looking to purchase a used GE EV-1B control card to replace the
one that I have. It needs to be 48 - 84 V or 24 - 84 V and have the 1A
bypass capability. The above mentioned ones will work, and maybe some other
older
card numbers. I'd prefer the 24 - 84 V card. One sold on e-bay last week,
but we all know who that can go getting outbid and such. Does anyone have one
what they are willing to sell me? That's all for now and should be enough to
get the design and construction started.
Thanks,
Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
I have 1kW of PV on a tracking array, grid connected. This only
produces enough to run my EV for about 2500 miles per year, but then,
that's not much PV and a large heavy van EV.
Evan,
Does tracking pay off for you?
I am doing a cost-benefit analysis of my various mounting options. I
will have a roof-array on my EV bus. Right now I am leaning towards
_not_ leaning towards the sun-- planning a simple flat install, five
inches above the existing roofline.
For a few dollars more (and many extra hours of labor, added complexity)
I can go for a manually-adjustable panel-mount. (I am also playing with
the idea of splurging on 24" actuators, just for fun.) But I am
wondering about the benefit of tracking. Someone suggested to me that
the money spent on tracking would be better spent on a couple more
panels (if you have the space).
Did your array always track? Do you have a feel for how much tracking
has added to your power production? Would you say that tracking is worth
the added expense and complexity?
Tanks in advance.
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you could do is make the trailer run off of 2 Trojan L16HC batteries in
series for 24 volts and then have a 24 volt inverter change that to AC 240V
to run a charger or 115V for a charger. That way you could be down to 2
panels to charge the system and the L16HC batteries would have plenty of
capacity to run the charge cycle. You would also have to figure out some
kind of theft protection for the trailer - I myself would not feel
comfortable leaving a trailer with high dollar equipment in the parking lot
unattended.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
Oh yeah it does doesn't it. I'm glad I posted this here I hopefully would
have figured that out eventually but it makes the idea much more achievable
and practical with just panels on a trailer or stand alone frame of some
kind.
I could position it so that I'm there for the "good" hours of the panels.
Certainly would make it light so I could maybe tow it with the motorcycle
after folding up the panels and bring it home for the weekend or if I'm
taking a vacation for a week or two.
The batteries would really only help on say monday when it had saturday and
sunday to charge up all day if I had the additional capacity in the
batteries.
Thanks Again. This MC thing might just happen.
Mark Hastings
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking about solar on my house myself but where I really need
> power is at work. What if I left a little trailer with solar panels and
> some batteries at work and plugged in during the day?
Why would you need batteries? I assume you work during the daytime?
Unless you are going somewhere for lunch, your EV will be hooked up to the
panels during the only useful solar charging periods and, presumably, your
EV already has batteries, so...?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a thought I am just throwing out there -
How about a dual motor setup using a transfer case in the front mounted
sideways for the front two wheels and then a motor hooked directly to the
differential in the back. You could have them controlled in series/parallel
just like White Zombie but in a different configuration. You could have
both run to get you up to speed but then shut one off (the rear or the
front) when you were up to speed to save energy. Just a thought.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Brooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:06 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: building from scratch
First you have to decide if you want it to be FWD, front motor - rear wheel
drive, mid-motor or rear motor. Transverse motor or longitudinal ?
Automatic trans, manual trans or no trans ? Once you have the basic layout
designed in your head then you can put pencil to paper and start designing
the frame and the jig to build the frame on. Then you acquire the tranny,
and other running gear.
The best way to assure that all the suspension works as needed is to copy
the dimensions of the donor car. The easiest way is to use the A-arms and
spindle assemblies from the same vehicle that all the rest of the drivetrain
is taken from. Then you just make sure that all the A-arm mounts are in the
same exact location in reference to one another and the ground and you then
know that the geometry will be OK.
I once built a dirt midget from the ground up and there is a lot of thinking
and cogitating that goes on as the car takes shape. You end up with a chair
on each side of the jig so that you can sit and visualize the build process
and work out the design elements as you proceed. You need to write down a
general order of assembly or you may find yourself having to "unbuild"
things because you missed a step.
What sort of body are you thinking of using ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:26 PM
Subject: building from scratch
> greeting all,
> a friend and I are starting a electric car project
> from the group up. we are planning on designing and
> building the chassis and the whole bit. ambitious I
> know. I was wondering if anyone had advice to share
> and/or possibly sources for parts like the front
> suspension (new)....
>
> regards,
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Yahoo! for Good
> Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question is - why would you want 60HZ? I would think if you are interested
in a motor capable to drive a vehicle a 400Hz 3 phase would be a lot easier
to find than a 60Hz that can handle the torque. 400Hz motors are a lot
smaller and more powerful.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:57 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Siemens EV Motors
Victor wrote:
> Can you find me any industrial 60 hz liquid cooled motor
> small enough to be usable in an EV?
I've searched and searched and I don't think there is such a thing.
I've also looked for suitable air cooled AC motors.. Even if found,
there is still the inverter issue...
Victor, will any of your inverters work with the motor Lee linked too?
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?&catname=&qty=1&item=10-1937
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I find this a very very interesting idea. Hmm. Its good for small ev's like
mine with very small range, 25km max. It could charge a small battery and
the battery could power an inverter than could be used to charge the
batteries. However, sorta wasting the solar energy. In-efficiencies with
battery absorbing charge roughly 70%, then conversion by the inverter
another 90% and then charger efficiency prob 70%. Better to just charge the
whole battery bank in parallel, but then might have problem with unequal
charging of the batteries.
Oh well. Will do some more pondering.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)
Sent: 28 September 2005 21:34
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: RE: Solar Trailer?
What you could do is make the trailer run off of 2 Trojan L16HC batteries in
series for 24 volts and then have a 24 volt inverter change that to AC 240V
to run a charger or 115V for a charger. That way you could be down to 2
panels to charge the system and the L16HC batteries would have plenty of
capacity to run the charge cycle. You would also have to figure out some
kind of theft protection for the trailer - I myself would not feel
comfortable leaving a trailer with high dollar equipment in the parking lot
unattended.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
Oh yeah it does doesn't it. I'm glad I posted this here I hopefully would
have figured that out eventually but it makes the idea much more achievable
and practical with just panels on a trailer or stand alone frame of some
kind.
I could position it so that I'm there for the "good" hours of the panels.
Certainly would make it light so I could maybe tow it with the motorcycle
after folding up the panels and bring it home for the weekend or if I'm
taking a vacation for a week or two.
The batteries would really only help on say monday when it had saturday and
sunday to charge up all day if I had the additional capacity in the
batteries.
Thanks Again. This MC thing might just happen.
Mark Hastings
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking about solar on my house myself but where I really need
> power is at work. What if I left a little trailer with solar panels and
> some batteries at work and plugged in during the day?
Why would you need batteries? I assume you work during the daytime?
Unless you are going somewhere for lunch, your EV will be hooked up to the
panels during the only useful solar charging periods and, presumably, your
EV already has batteries, so...?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> BTW, don't underestimate the benefits of cooling the cells either. The
>> power output is reduced significantly as they heat up. While cooling
>> them is difficult to do well due to their construction, it is something
>> to think about.
>> OK..... WHYTHEHELL don't these guyz, cell makers tie in with the solar
> HEATing folks and offer a heater and juice panel, Water would cool things
> down a bit, right?and the juice would flow a bit better? What am I missing
> here, 'cept the damn photovoltiacs are Unobtainium these daze, anyhow.
Easy, because by the time the cells are hot enough to heat water, they are
too hot to produce electricity at maximum efficiency.
The 'cool' temperature for PVs is less than 1/2 the temperature of the
water circulating through a solar water heating panel.
Water cooling PVs could work, but you'd want to use COLD water not HOT
water. Of course there is the whole electric isolation issue to overcome,
but that's doable.
In the long run, it's cheaper just to buy more panels instead of building
a system to cool them.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the data point on your range with Yellow Tops -- that's helpful
to me. To what level of discharge is 16 miles on your batteries? Do you have
data on your actual kilowatt hours of discharge to go that 16 miles? Seems
like you would have a very good situation, being on mostly flat terrain.
No, no data yet. That's to 80% discharge. No fun riding on mostly
flat, mostly straight roads. :(
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI there,
You could do some maths and calculate the aero drag and rolling resistances
for various speeds. Then equate those forces to torque and using the gearbox
multiplier through the gear ratios, you could determine the torque needed at
the motor. See if your motor can supply that torque or the power. See what
the current rating of the motor is and do not exceed the rated voltage of
the motor too much.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 28 September 2005 20:33
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Wanted - information on DC motor
On Saturday, I plan to go out and select the drive motor from the many that
my friend has available at his repair shop. He typically works only on
industrial equipment, but he knows a great deal about motors and rebuilding
them. As
far as EV's go, he has very little knowledge. I want to be sure I get
something that is capable of propelling the Geo Metro with decent
acceleration, but
not so big that I need a massive battery pack that the car can't
accommodate.
Does anyone have any specific information on RFE industrial motors so that I
can pick a good one. Right now, I am going with "a series wound motor as
big
as I can pick up which should give me an 80 - 90 lb list motor ~ 7.5"
diameter" - very roughly. What brand is best? Should I stick with name
plates
reading 36 V, or opt for the 36 / 48 V. Again, I want to be sure that I can
actually power the thing. Also, it has to be physically small enough that I
can
handle it and get it in the car. He offered me a motor that is 14 - 18"
diameter,
48 V, and probably can generate a max of 150+ HP. I know that is too big,
but what do I really need?
Thanks,
Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
