EV Digest 4783
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Streamlined Scooters
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FW: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Scratch Building a Car ( was RE: Can batteries be mounted up front
ahead of the bumper? )
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Iota problem screws.
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Industrial motors was: Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Siemans Motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: FW: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Clarification of hook-up of EV-1 to Bradley from post01082 (Jan 2000)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) performance problems
by Ross Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) crimper tools
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
how the heck do you put your feet down on a bike like that? I would love to
build one of those just to see if it could be done!
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick 'Sharkey' Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 11:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Streamlined Scooters
if anyone here is seriously considering making a streamlined
two-wheeler, this might be of interest:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes,
If this PV idea goes ahead, if I do have enough money I will probably
implement a series regulator charger on each battery and have a common input
from my PV battery bank to provide charge to the regulators and hence charge
each battery individually. And just use the mains powered charger for remote
area charging and for equalization charging every two weeks.
Hmm...maybe
Cheers
Anyone know how to make a series type charger. How would you make the
voltage comparator to sense the voltage at the terminals and then power a
relay to dump charge in.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David, Peter and All,
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 28 Sep 2005 at 11:06, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Building chassis for EVs is definitely within bounds for
> this list.
Insofar as EVs pose distinct challenges with distributing mass (and probably
others), I think that's probably true.
I agree and said so in the post Peter replied to. But this is not
the place to get deeply into the other aspects of chassis design. We are
already overloaded with posts and too many OT ones will drive those who
actually want to learn EV's away, hurting our mission.
As with anything else it depends somewhat on intent. If you're building a
1200cc mc engine powered tadpole and mining the knowledge here, then I'd
discourage that. But if it's an EV, I think discussion here is appropriate.
Anybody else want to weigh in on this?
The person who it was directed to, Stu, has badly abused this in
hunderds of posts over the last 6 months. If he had just asked the questions
once, it wouldn't be bad but now he is on the third time on the same questions
which is not cool as he just doesn't learn. He needs to go to other lists made
for that but to be honest, I believe he just like Troy was, wants to see
himself in print, not to really build, do anything.
I have stopped answering him and if others are smart, will stop too.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I'll bet the neg setscrew is the same.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:55 AM
Subject: Iota problem screws.
>I some how lost and found the positive setscrew for the output of the Iota
> unit I have. I put it in sidways. (they should use a longer setscrew.
> When I got it out it rolled somewhere and I can't find it. Does anyone know
> what type of thread it is? It'll save me a big hastle. Looks like a fine
> thread. Lawrence Rhodes......
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like the idea of a rotating switch to charge each battery. I would
change it to rotate after the charge complete light turns of from the
charger though instead of by a certain time. That way an intelligent charge
controller can be used to charge the pack and each battery is charged in its
own pattern.
If you have a weak battery, the others may never see the charger.
Perhaps a compromise. You know that the batteries require X Amp-hours.
Switch for X- Amp-hours and then dwell on each until the charger is
satisfied that its job is done.
This multi charger or the switch able charger eliminates heavy cable
switching. The light gauge charging wiring can be permanently installed to a
plug. If a series charger is found, it too can be used. In fact, both
series and individual charging could be simultaneous with intelligent
chargers. Hmmmm?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Chew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:26 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: FW: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
Just catching up on E mail as I've been swamped.
John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm glad to see that someone besides Zap bought it. Even
better that you will have access to it, Jerry. With NiCds,
you could build a 200+ mile range EV from it,
That's probably pushing it though 150 miles is easily possible on
ni-cads with a 20 yr battery life. .
and with lead
100 miles is a big possibility.
That has already been done in the Sunrise. We only need 720 lbs of
lead batts to do that with a 20% safety margin.
Imagine a $25,000 Zilla powered electric musclecar that
could kill the new Charger..
This really isn't the EV for that as the Front wheel drive kind of
precludes that much power. But it can do quite well with a 1k zilla which with
it's lightweight body, chassis, could easily beat most production cars in the
1/4 mile.
We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on the market
now. It will have a White Zombie inspired drive train for too fast power !!
. I hope you guys really work
with the finish of that body, as it has a lot of potential
for efficiency, but really needs some work in the looks
department!
You are thinking of the original body which was fairly bad. This new
version, shape has very good finish being done by probably the best composite
company in the world, TPI of RI.
You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will
get your business some attention.
That's the plan to do this first class and my Freedom EV tooling was
just popped out and my glass guy has done a great job taking it from my good
finished plug and brought it to first class finish but that's what I hired him
for.
James is including thew chassis molds with the body and much other
stuff so it will be even easier, earlier to put it into production.
I'll be heading up to Bob's place to pick the body up this coming week
so will be great to see it, Bob in person. Bob Rice should be thanked as
without him sticking his neck out and doing all he has done, this never would
have happened.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
Hi All;
Getting into my 5 weeks gone to Portland E mail too, like among my OTHER
Lists got up to 1200 or more, fdispite checking in librarys and at Good
Folks homes that put (up) and put me up!
> Hi John and All,
> Just catching up on E mail as I've been swamped.
>
> John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm glad to see that someone besides Zap bought it. Even
> better that you will have access to it, Jerry. With NiCds,
> you could build a 200+ mile range EV from it,
>
>
>
> That's probably pushing it though 150 miles is easily possible
on ni-cads with a 20 yr battery life. .
>
>
>
> and with lead
> 100 miles is a big possibility.
>
>
> That has already been done in the Sunrise. We only need 720 lbs
of lead batts to do that with a 20% safety margin.
>
>
> Imagine a $25,000 Zilla powered electric musclecar that
> could kill the new Charger..
>
> Small steps before we go gunnin' for Datsuns<g>
>
> This really isn't the EV for that as the Front wheel drive kind
of precludes that much power. But it can do quite well with a 1k zilla which
with it's lightweight body, chassis, could easily beat most production cars
in the 1/4 mile.
>
> We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really
hot, fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on the
market now. It will have a White Zombie inspired drive train for too fast
power !!
> That would be a hoot! see Sunrise pick her front wheels up as it
launches! Jim Husted could be talked into a Siamese 9 motor(s) A BAD Zilla
set up or a locomotive line switch?
>
>
>
>
> . I hope you guys really work
> with the finish of that body, as it has a lot of potential
> for efficiency, but really needs some work in the looks
> department!
>
> Yeah! Sigh I agree, there are some minor owees and dings. Probably from
shipping and handling.
>
> You are thinking of the original body which was fairly bad. This
new version, shape has very good finish being done by probably the best
composite company in the world, TPI of RI.
>
>
>
> You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will
> get your business some attention.
>
> That's the plan to do this first class and my Freedom EV tooling
was just popped out and my glass guy has done a great job taking it from my
good finished plug and brought it to first class finish but that's what I
hired him for.
>
>
>
> James is including thew chassis molds with the body and much
other stuff so it will be even easier, earlier to put it into production.
Another truck run to Mass, looks like?
>
> I'll be heading up to Bob's place to pick the body up this coming
week so will be great to see it, Bob in person. Bob Rice should be thanked
as without him sticking his neck out and doing all he has done, this never
would have happened.
>
Well, gee, Blush mode....thanks! But without Jerry sticking HIS neck out
as well as his whole body, I'd still be fantisising EV's to anybody that
would listen, but NOT having something to show for it. As Lee Hart sez in
his signatures now and again" Be the change that you want to see" Or
something like that?
Anybody in Jerry's FLA -CT route, speak up, give Jerry a place to sleep
over and a decent meal, a EV break on the way!!It's a loooong ride!! I know
from MY 300 mile oddesy to Bos.
Seeya
Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jody and All,
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
how the heck do you put your feet down on a bike like that? I would love to
build one of those just to see if it could be done!
That's just the begining. Where do you put your head as most
would like to take it along ;^D
I'd widen it with a 6-12" strip along the centerline so to be
able to turn the handlebars and raise the rear for head clearance but you will
have a hard time with a windshield for it.
Better, cheaper, more practical would be to get some clear, thin,
say 1/16" Lexan and bend it around the front of the chosen bike as tightly as
the handlebars turning radius allows, a small front wheel helps here to keep it
small, and attach itto the frame just aft the handle bars.
Then make doors for each side that come back to behind the rider
that rest on a back rollbar/frame by spring loading it to close. Then add a
roof to the front top of the windshield which should lean aft at the top as
much and be as low as possible, taking the roof aft to the rollbar/frame behind
the driver.
Your feet then work just as they always did.
This will give you almost as good aero but is much more
practical and cost under $200 total with your labor.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick 'Sharkey' Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 11:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Streamlined Scooters
if anyone here is seriously considering making a streamlined
two-wheeler, this might be of interest:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html
-----sharks
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So you are saying widen it and put holes in the bottom to put the feet out
under? It would be a fun project thats for sure. I am thinking that
putting that over my CB900 wouldnt be a very good idea though.
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
Hi Jody and All,
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
how the heck do you put your feet down on a bike like that? I would love to
build one of those just to see if it could be done!
That's just the begining. Where do you put your head as most
would like to take it along ;^D
I'd widen it with a 6-12" strip along the centerline so to be
able to turn the handlebars and raise the rear for head clearance but you
will have a hard time with a windshield for it.
Better, cheaper, more practical would be to get some clear,
thin, say 1/16" Lexan and bend it around the front of the chosen bike as
tightly as the handlebars turning radius allows, a small front wheel helps
here to keep it small, and attach itto the frame just aft the handle bars.
Then make doors for each side that come back to behind the
rider that rest on a back rollbar/frame by spring loading it to close. Then
add a roof to the front top of the windshield which should lean aft at the
top as much and be as low as possible, taking the roof aft to the
rollbar/frame behind the driver.
Your feet then work just as they always did.
This will give you almost as good aero but is much more
practical and cost under $200 total with your labor.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick 'Sharkey' Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 11:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Streamlined Scooters
if anyone here is seriously considering making a streamlined
two-wheeler, this might be of interest:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html
-----sharks
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Landing gear?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:05 AM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: RE: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
So you are saying widen it and put holes in the bottom to put the feet out
under? It would be a fun project thats for sure. I am thinking that
putting that over my CB900 wouldnt be a very good idea though.
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
Hi Jody and All,
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
how the heck do you put your feet down on a bike like that? I would love to
build one of those just to see if it could be done!
That's just the begining. Where do you put your head as most
would like to take it along ;^D
I'd widen it with a 6-12" strip along the centerline so to be
able to turn the handlebars and raise the rear for head clearance but you
will have a hard time with a windshield for it.
Better, cheaper, more practical would be to get some clear,
thin, say 1/16" Lexan and bend it around the front of the chosen bike as
tightly as the handlebars turning radius allows, a small front wheel helps
here to keep it small, and attach itto the frame just aft the handle bars.
Then make doors for each side that come back to behind the
rider that rest on a back rollbar/frame by spring loading it to close. Then
add a roof to the front top of the windshield which should lean aft at the
top as much and be as low as possible, taking the roof aft to the
rollbar/frame behind the driver.
Your feet then work just as they always did.
This will give you almost as good aero but is much more
practical and cost under $200 total with your labor.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick 'Sharkey' Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 11:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Streamlined Scooters
if anyone here is seriously considering making a streamlined
two-wheeler, this might be of interest:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html
-----sharks
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> I can get an industrial drive to run it from a battery pack, and be happy
> at 400V on the DC buss,
How much does one of these 400V industrial drives sell for?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jody,
The Zilla when mounted with the motor and battery terminals are the right side,
there are two 3/8-inch nylon hose 90 degree hose fittings that point down ward
on the lift side.
On the left side or the passenger side inner fender, I have a GM remote filler
tank that is used for radiators that set lower than the engine. This tank has
a pressure cap that has a small overflow line off the neck that would go to a
overflow tank. I do not use a overflow tank, because the Zilla never gets up
over 13 lbs pressure of which the cap is rated for.
This fill tank mounted on the inner fender, so its slightly higher than the
Zilla has a 3/8 nylon hose stub in it, which I connected a 3/8 hose from the
lower hose stub on the Zilla to this tank.
Out the bottom edge of this tank there is a 3/4 inch nylon stub which is
connected directly to a Maxi-Jet 1200 Multi-Use Pump which can be used as a
stand alone pump above water or as a Submersible Pump. Its made by Marineland.
http://www.marineland<http://www.marineland/>. I pick my up at a fish store.
This Maxi-Jet pumps are 120 volt AC, so used a small DC-AC inverter will work.
It draws less than 1 amp.
In using this type of pump, don't used the pickup attachment that is normally
lower in a fish tank. This pump has a 3/4 plastic stub inlet, which I coupler
right to the 3/4 inch stub on the fill tank. Fits tight enough where you do
not need any clamps.
This pump has a 3/8 plastic stub for a hose, which I ran down to a small oil
cooler or you could used a transmission cooler too. This oil cooler is mounted
in front of my A/C radiator which already has a electric fan on it.
I went into the top line of the oil cooler which is pushing warmer coolant down
and out the lower line. Off the lower line of the oil cooler, I went to a
large brass X fitting or a cross fitting with 1/2 inch pipe thread. A short
3/8 hose ran from the oil cooler to a this 1/2 inch cross with a 3/8 to 1/2
pipe adapter.
Coming off the bottom of the this 1/2 inch cross, is a 1/2 brass standard
radiator drain value. A coolant temperature sensor which requires 1/2 pipe
thread, screws in this cross also. It runs to a existing Stewart Warner water
temperature gage.
Coming off the top of this 1/2 inch cross is a 3/8 hose than runs all the way
to the Zilla top 3/8 hose stub. This forces cooler water downward through the
Zilla.
So the circulation loop is from lower 3/8 stub on the Zilla to the 3/8 inlet
stub of the holding tank. Holding tank 3/4 outlet hose to the pump 3/4 hose
stub. From the Pump 3/8 hose stub to the top of the cooler radiator and from
the bottom of this cooler back up to the top 3/8 hose stub on the Zilla.
I also have a temperature sensor that comes off the aluminum bar, that holds
both hose stubs on the Zilla which is attach to the Zilla heat sinks. This was
a existing engine Stewart Warner engine temperature gage I used.
The temperatures of the coolant and heatsink never went above 99 degrees while
the coolant system was running. If the underhood temperature read 140 degrees
if the EV is setting out in the hot sun but the ambient temp is between 90 and
95 degrees. The initial temperature will read 140 degrees, but when the
cooling system runs, its will quickly drop down to the outside ambient
temperature.
Here in Montana, it does not get that hot for long period of times. It might
get 100 degrees during the daytime, but gets 40 to 50 degrees at night.
If you are in a area where the ambient temperature gets hotter than that, than
you could experiment by wrapping the outlet 3/8 line coming back up from the
transmission cooler around the A/C line, the one that feels cold. After you
wrap it tight over a length of this hose, than insulated with that double wall
black A/C foam insulation that has a glue split edge for fastening together.
They have black plastic split caps to slide over the ends to seal it or you
could just tape it with 3-M Scotch 88 tape.
I have no detail pictures on this, because everything is so tight in this car.
You can see the top layout of this EV by just typing in Google search engine.
Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro
You will notice that there is a gray enclosure back near the firewall which the
Zilla is under. There is also a 6 inch Dayton filter blower fan on this unit.
The coolant lines come off the Zilla and go down and to the white fill nylon
tank you see that is mounted on the left inner fender. Off the bottom edge of
this tank, which you cannot see, is the Maxi-Jet 1200 pump attach to. Then
there are lines that go to the oil cooler that is mounted in front of the A/C
radiator, which also you cannot see, but is below the the A/C radiator top
plate.
If you notice that there is a pressure cap coming threw this top radiator
holding plate, this is for the electric hot water system for the car. There is
only a 3 inch diameter by 36 inch long copper pipe used as a pressurize fill
and holding tank for the heating system. There is no radiator for this unit.
All my cooling fans, cooling pumps, heating pumps, hot water heating and two
under dash cab heaters are all 120 VAC 60 HZ. I used a 5 KW 120 VAC Inverter
with two 25 amp circuit breakers and recepticles. This is power by the large
Delco Alternator/Inverter you see on the right side. This unit can provide
both 12 to 15 VDC and 120 VAC at 7000 watts at the same time.
If all these units are power up or at maximum load that is power off the pilot
shaft of the motor, and when the ampere of the batteries read 0 amps, all these
units are still providing output. Its also provides a mechanical resistance,
which will slow my car going down a slick icy hill.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'<mailto:'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:04 AM
Subject: RE: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
I have not seen the water cooling portion of the Zilla controller. Does
someone have it already set up with pictures that I could see? Are there
tubes on the back or something? What kind of waterpump is needed? How much
flow/minute? Would a 9 tube transmission cooler work well?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Coate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
One of the advantages of Zillas being water cooled is that you can put
the entire controller + hairball set up in its own compartment,
protected from the elements.
Now I'm wondering how much water (New England weather and living close
to the coast) had to do with my DCP woes of days gone by.
Bob Rice wrote:
> anything becides a contacter, THEY work wet, controller you hafta protect
> it from ANY water. EVen on super damp drippy CT weather was enough to put
> the fire out on a Rapter and T Rex! Washing the car too enthusticly,
loused
> it up even, used a hair dryer to get it dried out dso it would work.
Nothing
> more depressing than a dead Squalid state controller after you have had a
> contacter setup!That ya built and know how to troubleshoot.
>
> I don't know if Otmar sealed anything up on Zillas, I hope so, because
> most of my Stupid Stuff failures with DCP's stuff was water related.
> Origional smoke is still in my Raptures, just they would die in their
sleep,
> nothing dramatic.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com<http://www.eeevee.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I looked at using an industrial 3-phase motor like the one mentioned.
> What if we made our own water cooled housing and transfered the
> windings to it? Leave a small fan inside to stir air and transfer
> heat from rotor.
This can work. Simply wrapping the outside case with tubing and
circulating water through it may even be enough to cool the stator
windings.
The challenge is to cool the rotor. Under low-speed high-torque
conditions, it will get very hot! So, you may still need to cut holes in
the case and blow air through with an external blower.
Everything depends on how much over nameplate power you want to go, and
for how long.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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jerry dycus wrote:
> 150 mile [range] is easily possible on ni-cads with a 20 yr battery
> life... and with lead 100 miles is a big possibility. We only need
> 720 lbs of lead batts to do that with a 20% safety margin.
> This really isn't the EV for that as the Front wheel drive kind of
> precludes that much power. But it can do quite well with a 1k zilla
> which with it's lightweight body, chassis, could easily beat most
> production cars in the 1/4 mile.
I'm hoping we can find an affordable AC drive. The Sunrise was really
designed for AC. A DC drive is possible of course, but without a
transmission, a big enough DC motor and PWM controller may cost as much
as an AC drive.
> We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
> fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on
> the market now.
I thought the Sunrise was a 4-seater; a mid-sized car like a Camry. Or
are you talking here about a different vehicle?
> You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will get your business some
> attention.
That's for sure! A Sunrise could be a perfect replacement for mourning
EV1 drivers.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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stU wrote:
> I like the idea of a rotating switch to charge each battery. I would
> rotate [it] after the charge complete light turns off... That way an
> intelligent charger can be used... and each battery is charged in
> its own pattern.
This works great if you always have enough time to charge all the
batteries. But you're in trouble if you need to use the EV, and drive
off before the last battery gets charged. All the batteries are full
except one -- it goes dead early and gets murdered!
> If you have a weak battery, the others may never see the charger.
> Perhaps a compromise. You know that the batteries require X Amp-hours.
> Switch for X- Amp-hours and then dwell on each until the charger is
> satisfied that its job is done.
This is basically what my Balancer does. I have a bulk charger that
charges all the batteries in series to about 80% SOC. Then it is turned
off, and the Balancer charges each battery individually to "full". This
way, if you have to drive off "early", you can be assured that all
batteries are equally charged. Or if you are in the balancing phase,
that all batteries have at least an 80% charge.
However, I am cycling between batteries while balancing. It rotates
through all the batteries about once per hour. Since I have 12
batteries, it charges each for about 5 minutes, then moves on to the
next one. What this means is that each battery:
- sits 55 minutes
- the balancer measures its voltage, and estimates state of charge
based on voltage
- if not yet full, it gets charged for 5 minutes
- repeat until full
As I described earlier, the actual charge time varies depending on the
*relative* voltage of each battery. One battery might get 1 minute per
hour, another 10 minutes per hour.
> This multi charger or the switchable charger eliminates heavy cable
> switching. The light gauge charging wiring can be permanently
> installed to a plug.
Well, maybe. My Balancer uses 30amp relays and #10 wire. It actually
charges each battery at 15 amps max. To put 30 amphours in a dozen
batteries (my normal 50% discharge) with just the one-at-a-time Balancer
would take over 24 hours.
> In fact, both series and individual charging could be simultaneous
> with intelligent chargers.
Yes; as long as their outputs are isolated.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Robert Chew wrote:
> I will probably implement a series regulator charger on each battery
> and have a common input from my PV battery bank to provide charge to
> the regulators and hence charge each battery individually.
Let me see if I understand; you will have a PV panel, charge controller,
and battery at home. You will charge your EV by plugging into it, so in
effect, you are charging the EVs batteries from the 'home' battery.
Correct?
If both home and EV batteries are lead-acid, and the same voltage, you
could just connect them in parallel. It would take a long time (several
days!), but they would equalize out to the same state of charge.
If the 'home' battery is a higher voltage than the EV batteries, you can
"dump charge" by simply connecting them in parallel with a big switch.
This is tricky, because the relative voltage of the two packs is all
that is determininge the charging current! The initial peak current will
be very high! But it is fast and easy. To make this work, the 'home'
pack needs to be about 20% higher than the EV's battery voltage.
If there is a larger difference between the two pack voltages, you'll
need some kind of regulator. A linear series regulator can be used, but
wastes a lot of power. A small EV motor controller can be used; you'll
need a series inductor, and some mechanism to operate the "throttle pot"
to regulate charging.
> Anyone know how to make a series type charger. How would you make
> the voltage comparator to sense the voltage at the terminals and
> then power a relay to dump charge in.
A "series" charger charges all the batteries at once, all wired in
series. For instance, it outputs 120v to charge ten 12v batteries in
series.
What you're thinking of is a "sequential" charger; it charges one
battery at a time, in sequence. My Balancer is one example; you can
learn more about it at http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
It's likely to be overkill unless you have a dozen or more batteries.
However, you can scale it down to whatever size you need.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Lee Hart wrote:
> I'm hoping we can find an affordable AC drive.
Something I never knew till just now:
"Ballard supplied electric drives to Ford for use in the
battery-powered Ford Ranger pickup trucks, introduced in 1998, as well
as Ford's battery-powered TH!NK city electric vehicle."
http://www.ballard.com/be_a_customer/transportation/electric_drives
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Hi Lee and All,
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
jerry dycus wrote:
> 150 mile [range] is easily possible on ni-cads with a 20 yr battery
> life... and with lead 100 miles is a big possibility. We only need
> 720 lbs of lead batts to do that with a 20% safety margin.
> This really isn't the EV for that as the Front wheel drive kind of
> precludes that much power. But it can do quite well with a 1k zilla
> which with it's lightweight body, chassis, could easily beat most
> production cars in the 1/4 mile.
I'm hoping we can find an affordable AC drive. The Sunrise was really
As I am or maybe a sep-ex but most likely the least expensive with
good power will be a 2 motor series or series/parallel setup direct driving it
thru a differential. Modern large forklift controllers make this easy to do now
as they are designed for twin motors, higher voltages.
If anyone can match the 2 motor series setup with AC, BLDC, PM,
please let me know but I don't know of any that even come close. The 10-1 diff
it used is still available if a high rpm AC, ect can be found.
The drive system I'm looking at costs well under $2k for the
motor/controller/contactors with 600 motor amps and serious torque, about as
much as the front drive/suspension will handle probably.
designed for AC. A DC drive is possible of course, but without a
transmission, a big enough DC motor and PWM controller may cost as much
as an AC drive.
> We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
> fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on
> the market now.
I thought the Sunrise was a 4-seater; a mid-sized car like a Camry. Or
are you talking here about a different vehicle?
Yes it is, there is another composite monocoque EV spportscar in our
future though the Freedom EV and Sunrise must be done first.
And probably a mini van, SUV and mini-pick up on the Sunrise chassis
too. As most of the work will already be done, just make new bodies for the
chassis will be realitively easy compared from starting from scratch. And the 3
will share doors, the hardest part of building a car, truck.
Bob took a ride in James' Sunrise and even at his really tall size,
fit comfortably. Maybe Bob could tells us about that ride, impressions?
Reading it's brouchure I have, it has 2 airbags too.
> You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will get your business some
> attention.
That's for sure! A Sunrise could be a perfect replacement for mourning
EV1 drivers.
That's a major market for it, EV-1 ex owners. I'd like to beat the
EV-1 in every way we can performance wise and with the lower Sunrise's weight,
I believe it's possible and do it at a reasonable cost.
Plus as a 4 seater, it has much wider appeal than the EV-1 could ever
have.
I'm hoping that within the yr it takes to produce it, good, reilable
Li-ions will be available so it can have a 300 mile range. If Kokams could
become affordable as they ramp up to mass production, it would be really sweet
!!
As in all my EV's I'll build, it will be repairable easily by the owner
with most anything taking 30 minutes or much less to repair or replace with
mostly locally available parts.
Also upgradeable fairly easy to any new tech that comes along.
We need to come up with a new name as we can't use Sunrise and it will
be modified to improve it so it won't be anyway.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
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Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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Back in January 2000, Roger Stockton posted this diagram of the hookup for
the EV-1 controller in the Bradley GTE. It all makes sense to me except the
part about the PMT Driver. It has been a while since I replaced one of these,
but I believe last time, I hooked a relay between R3 and ground and used that
to
drive the contactor. I don't recall anything about a PMT driver (unless it
is already built into the EV-1B base (under the card)). I did a search on PMT
driver at Flight Systems and had no luck determining what it is supposed to
look like or where on the base it is located. By the way, what is a PMT driver
and what is it used for?
Switch Accelerator
/ Controlled by key / START switch
Pack +ve ----/ ---+-----------+------------/ ---+
(or 50V) | | Main |
+--+--+--+ O Contactor |
| | | | | Coil |
L3 L4 L5 L7 | L9
========== PMT Driver
= P4 =
= P2=---+
= P1 = |
========== |
| |
|R3 N
I know I need two switches offset in time. One hooked to L3, L4, L5, and L7,
and the other hooked up to L9. Of course, the 0-5k pot between R4 and R5.
That should pretty much do it, except for the PMT driver question. I believe
it may be associated with the 1A contactor. Very confusing since we are using
the controller different than designed, the manual (from Flight Systems) isn't
much help.
Thanks,
Steve Powers
Atlanta, GA
Still trying to get the motor / controller hooked up...
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Gentlemen, I have a 20 battery 120 Volt pick-up truck. I just bought the
truck fully converted from a man in Michigan who did a great job on it. I'm
happy with the truck but I do have some problems. First, the truck skips,
bucks, stutters and jumps like a bunny rabbit in reverse (no clutch). I
thought this was a non use thing when I test drove the truck but it hasn't gone
away. (DCP Raptor 600 controller) What can I do to fix this? Secondly, the 12
Volt system looses charge when allowed to sit for a week or more. The key
wasn't even in the truck, no lights / radio left on, etc. Could I have a
faulty ignition switch? Signed, new guy in western North Carolina (Ross)
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering how the "hammer" crimper compares to
the handle one.
Are different brand-names out there?
We talked about the differences between 4/0 and 2/0
perhaps 3/0 would work. Here's a guy selling 3/0 on
ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rubber-Welding-Battery-Inverter-Cable-3-0-awg-ftRed_W0QQitemZ7549629031QQcategoryZ67042QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This "welding" wire comes with how many strands? There
this marine grade stuff I guess comes with less?
Do they make 3/0 terminals?
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