EV Digest 4791
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fwd: Motor Advancement vs Controller
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) The "other" Solectria Sunrise
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: Science Project (long)
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Science Project (long)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Early Ford Ranger motor, was Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New Sparrows now $35,000
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) range issue
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: I'm famous!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Abandoned Austin America - Santa Cruz
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fwd: Motor Advancement vs Controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Electric Vehicle Help - Happy Ending
by Rex Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cable Crimping Tools, soldering
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) GM Cobalt manual steering how too
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: GM Cobalt manual steering how too
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is from the Sparrow list.
So, does the controller really make a difference on if you should
advance your motor?
1) VIN 220 would have had a kilovac contoller though. It has been my
understanding that with the kilovac controller the motor does *not*
need to be
advanced as that controller was built around the sparrow motor's
neutral setting.
2) I believe that with the DCP controllers (both the 1200 and 600 Raptors)
the motor should be advanced.
3) I do not have any info as to whether or not motor advancement should be
made if either of the Curtis controllers are used.
4) If the Zilla is used, I believe the controller manufacturer (Otmar)
suggests motor advancement, while MM has said that it does *not*
need to be advanced.
Can anyone verify any of this for the group (one way or another)? The thought
of losing either a $1000 controller or motor simply due to an incorrect motor
setting has never appealed to me.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see ZAP got the "sloppy seconds" of Sunrise bodies off eBay - Jerry, did you
bid because you wanted the older molds? Seems you got the best one to start
with already!
Wonder what Garry Starr will do with it...probably sink a lot of someone else's
money into it like has with everything else to do with ZAP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I work with an electric vehicle education program that accomplishes many of
the things you describe. The development of the EV Challenge program began
in 1993 with three high schools participating in the construction of
electric vehicles. Since then, the yearlong, hands-on program has increased
its educational services and grown to include 30 high schools from seven
states.
A middle school program using the principles of the US Department of Energy
Junior Solar Sprint was added to the EV Challenge in 2000, and has grown to
include 14 middle schools throughout the state of North Carolina. The Junior
Solar Sprint provides the middle school students with a solid foundation in
sustainability energy content that they will need to progress to the
advanced EV Challenge program at the high school level. The JSS program is
nationwide. According to the Department of Energy, the primary goals of the
JSS program are to:
Generate enthusiasm for science and engineering;
Improve student understanding of scientific concepts and renewable energy
technologies; and
Encourage young people to consider technical careers at an early age.
For more information about the national JSS program and curriculum resources
go to:
www.nrel.gov/education/student/natjss.html
The JSS program has lesson plans, work books, and other curriculum materials
on their web site. In addition they hold regional competitions across the
US. If you are located in North Carolina we would love to have your
students participate in our regional competition! Just check out our web
site at www.evchallenge.org.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gary Van Ravenswaay
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:12 AM
To: EV discusion list
Subject: Science Project (long)
Hello everyone,
First let me introduce myself. I'm a future science
teacher. I say future because about five years ago I
went through a series of layoffs that resulted in my
returning to college to become a teacher. Since I've
always been interested in the sciences that seemed
like the way to go (I can play with all the stuff I
like and get kids into, it and get paid for it!).
Anyway I am 45 years old and I find myself teacher
assisting in a local middle school and I will be
student teaching in the winter. Maybe by this time
next year I will have my own classroom.
I am currently teaching an exploratory class called
"Science in Motion" to a group of seventh graders many
of whom might be classified as "at risk" students. We
have been working on designing and building CO2
powered model dragsters and applying Newton's laws to
predict outcomes of races. The cars are just about
ready to run and the unit will soon be finished. In
another week or so, my coordinating teacher and I will
find ourselves in a room with 20 seventh graders (half
of which might be considered "at risk") with 4 weeks
left in the marking period and no real plans (this is
the first time he's taught this unit).
Here's where this finally ties into the ev list. I
have been keeping up with the list for a couple years
now but I rarely post simply because I am torn in too
many directions lately. I am going to propose to my
coordinating teacher that we research and design an ev
as a class, dividing the class into groups and
assigning various design aspects to different groups,
and having individual groups report back to the class
on what they have found so the class can discuss and
approve possible design aspects and hardware
selections. I believe that I will assign a group to
research batteries, one group to motors, one to
possible donor cars vs. design from scratch, etc... I
think this would make a good project to get students
thinking about the future of transportation and how
they might help to influence the public both through
personal communication and through raising community
awareness of some of the upcoming issues in the
transportation industry and related industries, and
how these might be addressed. I think I can get the
kids interested, especially with gas prices like they
are right now (their parents will probably be
interested). I think that designing an ev would be
perfect for the classes theme "Science in Motion" as
they will have to learn about electricity, batteries,
motors, tires, chassis design, efficiency, horsepower,
performance vs. economy, etc....
My request of the list is this. Could several
indidviduals on this list respond in terms of ideas
for approaching this project, possible sources for
parts of all types: motors, batteries, controllers,
battery management systems, anything that might be
helpful. I'll need a list of possible sources of
information and parts (like this list :) ) Does this
sound like a good idea? What could I do differently.
What am I missing? I know this list is full of people
that have a ton of knowledge and I'm hoping I can tap
into that source if you all would be willing. I think
this could be a great way to influence a group of
students to start thinking differently about how they
will accomplish their personal transportation needs
before any of them purchases a first car. Can you
help me plant a seed?
Best Regards,
Gary Van Ravenswaay
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now THAT would make some good video.....
KaBLAM!....
folks don't do this at home.....
Don't temp me with stunts like that...I might think I am racing...and enjoy
it.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
> At 03:09 AM 10/4/2005, you wrote:
>
> >And while I'm whining ;-), please don't hijack threads and change their
> >subjects. This post has nothing to do with "happiness is 36,000 watts."
> >
> >Thanks for your cooperation.
> >
> >PS - you need a new battery in your van. That one has a shorted cell.
;-)
> >
> >
> >David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> >EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> Oh I think after putting 36,000 watts into a single SLI battery the need
> for a new battery would be rather obvious.:)
>
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple of comments inserted...
<<<<> dividing the class into groups... assigning various design aspects
> to different groups... and having individual groups report back to
> the class on what they have found so the class can discuss and
> approve possible design aspects and hardware selections.
I found this approach doesn't work well with "at risk" kids. It's not
how they work, and not how they think. Trying to enforce this pattern of
learning is often setting them up to fail.>>>>
This is true in a broad sense, but not always.
The team of High School kids I took to the San Diego and Pheonix EVTC events in
1995 included 2 kids straight from gangs (and I mean that in the scariest sense
of the term), 4 'special ed' kids and 2 kids from good families and advanced
classes.
It was an interesting and troublesome group. Lee is entirely correct about the
lower tier
students being beaten down and conditioned for failure. The good news is that I
have had
very few 'troublesome'kids over the years that I couldnt help succeed, the bad
news is that
it takes a *tremendous* investment of time and energy to do so; ie 80 hour
weeks,
weekends at the shop, endless meetings with parents, administrators, district
risk
management wankers, business partners etc.
<<<Kids are born scientists and engineers; they are naturally curious,
creative, energetic, and *want* to learn. They love to experiment, and
learn as much (or more!) from their mistakes as they do from their
successes.>>>>>
Again, Lee hit the nail on the head. Given the chance, most kids will knock
your
socks off with their capacity for imagination and enginuity. They do learn
learn from
their mistakes, and the pile of broken Curtis, Auburn, DCP and Cableform
controllers
in under my bench is proof of the powerful learning that has gone on in my
shop!
<<<But the school system usually winds up beating it out of them! >>>
It can be beaten back into some of them with enough time, patience, committment
and money.
This kind of program can work and be a tremendous thing. I did it when I was
new and
energetic, and I'll do it again. When I do I will go into it knowing that I
wont see my
wife and kids much, and I'll end up spending entirely too much of my own money
on it,
and I will purchase a muliti million dollar personal liability policy before I
start.
I absolutely do not mean any of this to be discouraging in any way, and I'm
sure there
are teachers out there who are more effective and effecient than I. I just
wanted to share
my experience.
Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
BTW, about those 8 kids 9 years later:
One of my gang boys is in prison, the other escaped the life and supports a
family with a coffee cart and does custom fabrication in his garage. Of the 4
'sepcial ed' kids, 1 is a housewife, one is a BMW tech, and the other 2 are
still
creeping through college. 1 of the 'good' kids is and engineer and the other
is a druggie and a thief. You just absolutely never know...
Please feel free to contact me off list if you wish
(ben.hazel-at-suhsd.k12.ca.us)
I have been-there-done-that and would be happy to help any way I can.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, TDM is correct name! I thought of it but closest I could
remember was "EDM". It didn't sound quite right, but closest
I could recall. Thanks for correction.
Doug Hartley wrote:
Victor,
Actually the first generation of Ford Electric Rangers were made by TDM
(Transportation Design and Manufacturing) in Detroit for 1996, and used
a Northrupp Grumman electric motor. This motor was cooled by expensive
& exotic (at least to me) turbine oil. It was coupled to a custom made
single speed gear reduction "transmission". I have one of these TDM
motor/inverter/gear reduction assemblies in my garage, mounted on a
rolling display stand. The motor was probably actually made by an
associated company, such as Westinghouse, but I doubt it would be Seimens.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
There were few generations of Fords.
First ones put together by EDM (if I recall the name correctly)
used Siemens motors.
Ford ordered them from Siemens to build for them, and
put their (ford) label on it.
Later gen used Ballard's systems (still copy of
Siemens', but this is another story). Ford built
these vehicles, not EDM (I've inspected software for
EDM, and parameter set is little different
than standard Siemens' drive.
I don't know about business arrangement between
Ford and Ballard. All I can see that the motors
installed in any generation of Rangers are Siemens
design ones. Ballard's inverters are different though.
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
Interesting- I have seen a Ford EV-Ranger Motor and
Controller. And it has Ford emblems all over it. And
Victor informed me they were Siemiens Motors and
Controllers. Was Ballard buying Siemiens and selling
it to Ford to put their Emblems on it?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Monday, October 03, 2005 10:23 PM, Jerry Dycus wrote:
I have plenty bellying up for the Freedom EV for $13k and it's just
got it's tooling done and won't be ready for a while. The mid teens $
market is there without a doubt. Even the reg girls at my bank want one
after seeing my E woody and pics of the molds. Women seem to really like
small 2 seat cars, EV's !!
I could just imagine the "bellying up" that would happen if the girls at my
bank ever saw my woody, but I wouldn't want to get arrested for exposing a
dangerous weapon in public, especially not inside a bank! Those aren't the
kind of deposits I usually make at my bank! I guess it's probably a
different kind of bank I'd go to for that type of thing! :-)
Charles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
Liked the article in the newspaper, but it got me thinking about your car
weight and the 15 mile range issue. Everyone was telling me I would
probably get 25 to 30 miles and my car has the automatic transmission which
is somewhat of a loss.
So I guess my question is do you think it is your Exide batteries that are
the limitation? I am told that floodies provide longer range, but less
available current.
Right now I am in the process of building the battery box for the rear, and
am still trying to figure out which way I want to go. Our cars weigh a
similar amount.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
good newspaper interview,,, keep an eye out in the paper for people who
reply , most papers have a place where they put letters people write and
send in . I didn't see you web site in the article ,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" > Link:
http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2005/10/03/news/news03.txt
Hopefully that link works for anyone interested.
BTW, I did send in an e-mail to the paper in response to another article
about a local NEV. So it pays to make contact - you might just get
noticed and publicized.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember these cars fairly well. The brother of one of my high school
classmates owned one.
Austin America was one of the early transverse engine FWD cars brought to
the US. It was, IIRC, a sort of inflated Mini, and had many of the quirks one
expected from BL at the time ("hydrolastic" suspension, Lucas electricals).
This one might be useful for EV conversion, especially given the relatively low
weight, but I wonder where you'd get an adapter. It also sounds like you'd be
in for a MAJOR restoration project.
The Americas were only offered here from 1968 to 1971, and I'd be concerned
about body integrity of a car of that age that one might load up with 800-
1000lb of lead. One might not want to make this a daily driver - spare parts
are probably available from the UK (since the America is the export version of
a long-lived and widely sold range, the 1100/1300) but rectifying any failures
would probably entrail placing an order with a UK supplier.
If you're interested, you'll find more about the America at the website below.
The author estimates that there are fewer than 100 of these cars remaining
on the road in the states. He might take a sobbing jag if he heard of
someone making one into an EV, but it would certainly make for an
interesting and distinctive ampeater!
http://www.austinamericausa.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> I think that most people would underestimate the amount of heat
> that would have to be put into that size lug/wire in order to get
> a proper solder joint.
I agree. This is especially difficult if you can't inspect the joint
(i.e. it's hidden inside a closed lug).
I solder large terminals with a solder pot. It brings up the wire and
terminal to soldering temperature very quickly, yet doesn't overheat
them or wick solder back up the wire.
Another point that is often missed. Solder is mechanically weak. To make
a good solder joint, you must first have a good, solid mechanical
connection. Wires are twisted together, or crimped into a terminal, and
THEN soldered. The solder provides the electrical connection only; not
the mechanical strength.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> This is from the Sparrow list.
> So, does the controller really make a difference on if you should
> advance your motor?
There is nothing you can do in the controller to compensate for
incorrect brush timing in the motor. All the controller can do is limit
the motor voltage and current to levels that are "safe" with the present
brush timing.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
Battery Pack. I would prefer to use a DC current clamp type sensor, but the
only ones I can find are combined units where the display and the clamp are
in the same housing. Has anyone ever seen these meters where the sensing
clamp ring is external to the display - or does anyone know the principle of
their operation?.
I don't see how they can convert a DC current flowing through one of the
traction battery wires into some number of millivoilts to read on a meter.
I thought you could only do this with AC as it induces a current in an
adjacent wireas the AC current varied, but with DC it is a fixed magnetic
field and cannot induce a voltage in an adjacent wire.
Does this make sense....
Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there ?
and convert this into a proportional voltage.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: First drive impressions
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <
> > Check my math, I have a DMM conected to a shunt for amperage as my only
> > display. So this is an estimate.
> >
> Must be a good dmm ,many cheep ones don't work bucuse of noise from
> controller ..
>
>
> > I took a couple of first drives today and I cruised at 72 to 144 amps
> > 3rd gear about 45 to 55 mph
> >
> another way to brake in the motor is to let it run for a day slow . I
would
> be driving in 2nd , that 300zx that I did with 156 v will do 50 in 2nd ,
> this will help brake in the motor and keep the motor amps down
>
>
>
> > The most I saw was 312 amps during an acceleration.
> well thats batteries amps not motor amp , and that motor probable was
seeing
> the 1000 amps , the problem is these motors don't say anything , so you
have
> to take it easy in the begining ,
>
>
> >
> > considering a 204Volt(17*12) system that is cruiseing at ~14.4kw to
~29kw
> >
> > If I held this up for an hour I would get 45 to 50 miles
> >
> > 14000wh / 45mile = 311wh/mile
> > 29000wh / 50mile = 580 wh/mile
> >
> > Seems a little high?
> We talked about this being a big car , the one I did at 156v uses about
140
> amps at 55 ,,,, now my Porsche 924 at 218 v uses about 70 amps at 55 ,,,
> It probable will get better as you drive it around a bit and get the rust
> off the brakes and just the freeing up of the moving parts . .
> steve clunn
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So tell us the technique for making our own battery lead lugs out of copper
tube please. I favour this to direct soldering to the battery, but would
prefer the soldered technique and a bit of mechanical grip rather than just
a crimp.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
> Been there done that! not A good idea.It looks good & it work for awhile
> BUT! when there's A bad cell & you have to replace A battery,!!! It is
> harder to take the cable off!!! Then It did to put It on!! I even put on
A
> rubber seal . (PLASTI DIP) & IT got that green corrosion in side the
cable.
> I make my own cable connectors out of 1/2 inch copper pipe. I do a lot of
> soldering and make sure all the connections are shiny clean. It works
very
> well. I'll never solder my battery cables into the battery posts
> again.............Bill
>
> Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Date: 10/4/2005 4:15:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> >
> > A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
> > wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
> > and a soldered connection.
> >
> >
> > On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > > When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think
that
> > > soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree
> that
> > > it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> > >
> > >
> > > John Luck Home asked:
> > > > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > > > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
> connectors.
> > > > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> > >
> > > A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> > > connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> > > connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection
> when
> > > done by amateurs.
> > > --
> > > Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/118 - Release Date: 03/10/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just wanted to follow up with this original email
and thank everyone for the advice (good and extra
creative). Two months later I now have my Solectria
legally registered in California.
After receiving the threatening letter from
Sacramento. One call cleared up the confusion, I just
said that it was an "electric car" (lots of putting on
hold to consult with others), then the response was
just to send in the registration material. So I sent
all my registration material directly to the Technical
Compliance Department with photos and an explanation
(softly contesting the claim that the car violated the
Health and Safety code). 3 weeks later I got a letter
saying how much I owed for registration and a month
later a title and plates.
Thanks,
Rex Allison
--- Rex Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I recently purchased a 1996 Solectria Force that was
> used at a NJ utility then refurbished by Solectria
> and
> sold to a Californian then to me. Well it hadn't
> been
> registered in California yet so I went to the DMV
> and
> this is where the drama began.
> I had the vehicle inspected and the inspector agreed
> that it was an Electric Vehicle so he marked "E" on
> the form and wrote a note that the vehicle was zero
> emissions. No problem.
> Well at the Santa Clara DMV counter they refused to
> submit the paperwork because the odometer was under
> 7500 miles. There is a law in California to prevent
> New Out Of State Cars that don't meet California
> Emission to come into the state. I all but pleaded
> with the DMV manager that an EV by common sense
> should
> exceed California Emission Standards. So they
> refused
> to submit my paper work.
> Now I have a letter from the State DMV stating the
> following:
> The vehicle does not meet the California Health &
> Safety code 43150 through 43156. So according to
> California Vehicle Code 4750 they are refusing to
> register or title the vehicle and I have to remove
> it
> from the State.
> I have 30 days to respond. Does anyone know how I
> should approach this?
> Thank you,
> Rex Allison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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Howdy,
I crimp (using a hammer crimper) then solder using a resistance welder. I
made mine from a uWave transformer with enough #12 turns for 5V 100A. Luma
makes resistance welders like Model 551 or 626 is good but you can just get
the hand electrodes and roll your own transformer. Electrode Holder Cat no.
19-31 and use carbon electrode Cat no. R1-4 available in the EMF Company,
4444 W. Montrose Ave., Chicago, lL catalog 1-800-621-0080. It makes
pinpoint heat so the insulation doesn't burn on the battery cable, great
connections. Pitch that propane torch.
Have a renewable energy day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> In building type electrical connections, we cannot make just a solder
connection of a wire to even a solder lug. Its is best to follow this advice
in EVs. There is now some NEC code requirements for EVs.
>
> NEC and National Fire Protection Requirements.
>
> Connections of a conductor SHALL be made by means of PRESSURE CONNECTIONS,
including SOLDER LUGS.
>
> Soldering of connections shall first mechanically and electrically secure
without solder and then solder after its is mechanically secure.
>
> This means the wire and terminal is pre-tin, than mechanically crimp and
than solder.
>
> In the 40's we started to used a brass sleeve that slip over a twisted
wire connections and mechanically crimp it. Sometimes we fill the connection
with solder if the specifications call for it. It then was cover with a
plastic screw on or wrap around insulation cover.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Poulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> I think that most people would underestimate the amount of heat that
> would have to be put into that size lug/wire in order to get a proper
> solder joint. You'd need a pretty big electric iron. I think an
> oxy/acet torch would work well, with a small tip.
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> >John Luck Home asked:
> >
> >
> >>Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> >>stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
connectors.
> >>Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> >connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> >connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection
when
> >done by amateurs.
> >--
> >Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Do you have someone standing by the main breaker when you start that
thing? And maybe a fire truck? It seems like you would want a
safety crew, rather then a late night solo event.
Looks like you could put that capstone turbine to work and be looking
for move. You could really warm up Goldies lead with that
too. Back-to-Back runs with a full charge. :-)
Congratz
At 10/3/2005 11:13 PM, you wrote:
Yea... a pile of Nichrome Glowing hot... I have to get some shots of
the shop at night with the 75K clocking at 1/2 snort.
This is real close to 3 Bucks a hour of Grid power.
The whole shop was jumping up about 1.5 Degrees a minute.
Clearly the power stage is hanging in there.
The power bench marks are falling one by one....
Madman is having a good time in R&D....
--- End Message ---
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John Luck Home wrote:
I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there ?
and convert this into a proportional voltage.
Yes.. I believe its done with a Hall Effect sensor, which measures the
field strength around the wire.
Manzanita uses such a sensor in their charges. The ones he uses are
from LEM http://www.lemusa.com
Mark Farver
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----- Original Message -----
From: John Luck Home<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
Battery Pack. I would prefer to use a DC current clamp type sensor, but the
only ones I can find are combined units where the display and the clamp are
in the same housing. Has anyone ever seen these meters where the sensing
clamp ring is external to the display - or does anyone know the principle of
their operation?.
I don't see how they can convert a DC current flowing through one of the
traction battery wires into some number of millivoilts to read on a meter.
I thought you could only do this with AC as it induces a current in an
adjacent wireas the AC current varied, but with DC it is a fixed magnetic
field and cannot induce a voltage in an adjacent wire.
Does this make sense....
Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there ?
and convert this into a proportional voltage.
John
Hello John,
Simpson make a AC/DC Amp-Clamp Adapter Model 159 where you can plug it into a
DMM (Digital Multimeter). Range is 0.1 to 500A DC and AC 0 to 65 HZ.
If you calculated the output current of this unit, than you could go to a
stand alone DC Current meter with the right values.
This type of clamp on takes a battery to operated. The cost of these devices
are about 4 to 6 times over a DC amp meter and shunt.
see there Web Site www.simpsonelectric.com<http://www.simpsonelectric.com/>
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: First drive impressions
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <
> > Check my math, I have a DMM conected to a shunt for amperage as my only
> > display. So this is an estimate.
> >
> Must be a good dmm ,many cheep ones don't work bucuse of noise from
> controller ..
>
>
> > I took a couple of first drives today and I cruised at 72 to 144 amps
> > 3rd gear about 45 to 55 mph
> >
> another way to brake in the motor is to let it run for a day slow . I
would
> be driving in 2nd , that 300zx that I did with 156 v will do 50 in 2nd ,
> this will help brake in the motor and keep the motor amps down
>
>
>
> > The most I saw was 312 amps during an acceleration.
> well thats batteries amps not motor amp , and that motor probable was
seeing
> the 1000 amps , the problem is these motors don't say anything , so you
have
> to take it easy in the begining ,
>
>
> >
> > considering a 204Volt(17*12) system that is cruiseing at ~14.4kw to
~29kw
> >
> > If I held this up for an hour I would get 45 to 50 miles
> >
> > 14000wh / 45mile = 311wh/mile
> > 29000wh / 50mile = 580 wh/mile
> >
> > Seems a little high?
> We talked about this being a big car , the one I did at 156v uses about
140
> amps at 55 ,,,, now my Porsche 924 at 218 v uses about 70 amps at 55 ,,,
> It probable will get better as you drive it around a bit and get the rust
> off the brakes and just the freeing up of the moving parts . .
> steve clunn
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005
>
>
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Unless I can keep the shock from turning, this will just spin the
shock. Don't have an impact gun anyways. I couldn't turn the
nut down anymore when I tried a few days ago. Toscalito Tire
says that means that it is bottomed out (?). Toscalito says that
whenever the strut or spring is replaced that the bump stop
should be replaced (?).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
>
> >I guess I will trying leaning into it a bit more
>
> Stick an impact gun on it and give it a shot or two and see if
it moves.
>
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For future reference:
Check out page 133:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/gmtuner_cobalt_phase5_car_build.pdf
"The electric steering assist must be removed because
inputs required for its proper operation are not available with
aftermarket engine controllers."
There's a picture of it showing it removed from the steering column.
Makes manual steering conversions much easier compared to when cars
had the hydraulic pump.
I'm impressed GM made these .pdf files available for download:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/html/race_shop_build_book.htm
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Ryan Stotts wrote:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/gmtuner_cobalt_phase5_car_build.pdf
"The electric steering assist must be removed because
inputs required for its proper operation are not available with
aftermarket engine controllers."
Its very interesting to read how integrated the engine controls are with
the rest of the car. How the dash, and various parts of the electric
harness will not function without the stock PCM.
I've been hearing a lot more reports about how GM is moving toward a
integrated computer system throughout the vehicle. Basically they
appear to have decided to end hardware complexity and move to software
complexity. Sensors and actuators are become standard across GM's
product line, and instead the specialization between models will mostly
be in software.
A notable example is that the fuel sender has become a standard part,
but special programming within it configures it to report the correct
information when paired with different sized tanks. The sender is $15
from GM, but the dealer will typically charge about $180 to program it
for your car. We've not yet reached the point where the car becomes a
truely closed system (despite years of sky falling reports) but it seems
more likely by the day. GM reports the wiring harness is now the most
expensive part on the vehicle, and that they want to radically reduce
the wire count to save costs.
There's a picture of it showing it removed from the steering column.
Makes manual steering conversions much easier compared to when cars
had the hydraulic pump.
Remember that the PDF is targeted at racers (specifically drag racers)
who don't mind if the steering wheel effort is greatly increased. Ifs
simple to remove, but odds are the ratios are still setup for a powered
rack and it will be tough to turn. Same problem as when we remove the
power steering pump from another vehicle. However this may still be
good news... it would be interesting to find out that the electric rack
still works with the computer present and the engine missing.
Mark
--- End Message ---
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There are clamp-on ones and also sensors that you have to put the wire
through because they don't open up. The hole can be pretty small and a
real problem for big cables. I have one rated for like 150 amps but the
hole could take a 2 ga MAYBE if the insulation were stripped off.
They're very common for AC but not so common for DC. The problem is the
offset error is wide and drifts a lot. They have a manual control for
setting DC offset, it will drift with temp and time.. My 600 amp DC
clamp can have +/- 5 amps or so when I first take it out of the case.
The offset problems are generally proportional to the current rating- a
600 amp model might have +/- 6 amps over a certain temp range and their
100 amp model would have +/- 1 amp offset error.
There are "open loop" and "closed loop" sensors. I don't think you'll
find this labelled on a clamp-on probe. Anyways, the closed loop
sensors are much more accurate particularly in the realm of offet
error. One thing I noticed in the docs is that exceeding the current
rating does NOT just mean the reading will stop at a rail. The magnetic
field can permanently magnetize the sensor and mess with its accuracy
from that point onward. Hopefully it can be demagetized later. This is
a big problem since high amp surges may happen in this environment.
Danny
John Luck Home wrote:
I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
Battery Pack. I would prefer to use a DC current clamp type sensor, but the
only ones I can find are combined units where the display and the clamp are
in the same housing. Has anyone ever seen these meters where the sensing
clamp ring is external to the display - or does anyone know the principle of
their operation?.
I don't see how they can convert a DC current flowing through one of the
traction battery wires into some number of millivoilts to read on a meter.
I thought you could only do this with AC as it induces a current in an
adjacent wireas the AC current varied, but with DC it is a fixed magnetic
field and cannot induce a voltage in an adjacent wire.
Does this make sense....
Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there ?
and convert this into a proportional voltage.
John
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Listers,
Does anyone happen to have an info about Ovonic's 13.2V NiMH battery?
Mainly GM's charging/discharging requirements.
That's the battery used in EV1 and some S10.
Thank you in advance,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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