EV Digest 4807
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Suggestions for genset.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World Re
cord!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World
Record!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 180 V Circuit Breaker
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Any life in old forklift nicads?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Any life in old forklift nicads?
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 6 Volt AGM battery
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Lawless Industries "Zero" Mower to take on world's best at
Internatioanl Lawn, Garden, & Power Equipment Expo next week
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Battery Equaliser
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Any life in old forklift nicads?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Albright contactor
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Those Allbright contactors
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 180 V Circuit Breaker
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World Record!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World Record!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That Capstone microturbine C30HEV with built-in generator and controller
at 29KW of electricity would do it, but I don't know how "thrifty" it
would be to find one in working condition.
http://www.capstoneturbine.com/Documents/C30hev.pdf
As noted, there seem to be popping up from scrapped buses but they're
often being left outdoors in poor conditions and might not work reliably.
At a specific fuel consumption of 0.56 lb/hp-hr it's pretty impressive
when we're talking about electrical hp output, not just mechanical shaft
power.
I still want one. With the proper inverter electronics that thing would
be a kick-ass generator for 120vac and 220vac at remote sites as well as
being able to power a vehicle.
Danny
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
All you charger guys. What should I use to give me 150 amps at 144vdc
continous? I'm not sure weather to use propane or biodiesel. Those
are my two favorite fuels. I've given up on CNG. Tanks are too big.
What is durable & thrifty? Thanks for any info.
Lawrence Rhodes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah, it's a good day when a man's charging capabilities are limited by
his household's available power instead of his battery charger.
Although, with that much power on hand, why waste it heating your shop?
Get a big extension cord and take Goldie for a spin :) Set some NEDRA
records for fastest grid-powered EV. Bob Rice would probably challenge
that, but locomotives are rather difficult to drag race...
Yea... a pile of Nichrome Glowing hot... I have to get some shots of
the shop at night with the 75K clocking at 1/2 snort.
This is real close to 3 Bucks a hour of Grid power.
The whole shop was jumping up about 1.5 Degrees a minute.
Clearly the power stage is hanging in there.
The power bench marks are falling one by one....
Madman is having a good time in R&D....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
I think it has been commented before that the street tires of
White Zombie are wrinkling on the first bite on taking off,
as can be seen in the video that starts with the sparking
brush, followed by a good take-off.
What struck me when looking frame for frame was that the first
movement of the car appeared to be the left rear wheel shooting
forward by more than an inch (the right rear wheel changes angle,
but not position) followed by the right rear wheel biting and
shooting forward too, including wrinkling.
It seems that the power from the motor gets to the left rear
wheel earlier than to the right side one, I cannot explain
why one side would not move while the other is already more
than one inch ahead.
Has this effect been noticed on other videos?
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John Wayland
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:27 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World
Record!
Hello to All,
It’s been more then a week since our successful racing night where Tim
Brehm powered White Zombie to a new world record. Thanks to Rod Wilde
and Madman Rudman for posting, especially to Rod for his blow by blow
reports to the list. Congrats to my driver, Tim Brehm. Late as it is
now, here’s my report on that memorable night.
Tim Brehm wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> John wanted to let everyone know that the 12.15 sec. @ 106 MPH run is
up on www.Plasmaboyracing.com The rest of them will be > up shortly.
John is out of town and is unable to send a post.
Wow, what a fun night we had! After driving to the track and getting a
full charge, we were making our first run in the daylight at PIR...an
unusual thing, as we generally race in the Friday and Saturday night
street drags. The track does not normally run 1/4 mile drags on
Wednesday nights, only 1/8th mile. However, after dipping into the lower
12's the previous Saturday night, track officials invited us to bring
the electric car back on Wednesday, telling us with the drag racing
season coming to an end in November and with a mid 70's forecast for
Wednesday and a week of rain forecast starting on Thursday, they were
opening the track for full 1/4 mile drags. They also told us that the
super quick Pro Stock class would be running and laying down lots of
sticky rubber, making the track ideal for good launches.
From Dennis Berube:
> I sure hope you bracket race the ICE's this year, its fun taking home
their prize money.
Yeah Dennis, you got your wish!
From Tim Brehm:
> ...it wasn't heads up racing like we thought it was going to be and
they put us in the pro stock class.
As Tim said, our first surprise was the class they put White Zombie
in.... Pro class! There are three classes on Wednesdays....Street class,
where daily driver hot ricers and milder muscle cars run against each
other, Sportsman class where the quicker (up to 14 second) ricers and a
large showing of loping cam, V8 muscle cars race each other, and the Pro
class, where 'things' with parachutes, huge blowers sticking two feet
out of the engine bay, 15 inch wide wrinkle walls, fiberglass bodies,
etc., tear up the track and run anywhere from 9's to 11's. This class
actually goes all the way into the 13's, but on this night, the slowest
car in the top dog class was White Zombie, followed by a couple of high
11 second cars....most however, were in the high 9 to low 11 second range!!!
From Tim:
> I felt very out of place in the staging lanes with big block muscle
cars with their 15 or 20" wide drag slicks and wheelie bars. I don't
> know how many times I heard "Hey I think your in the wrong lane".
Yes, it was intimidating, but at the same time, super cool that our
little 'ol Datsun EV was sitting among the giants! Many of the Sportsman
class muscle car guys were in shock about our electric being so quick as
to be placed above them in this heady class of powerful machines...it
was quite a statement for EVs. From what we could tell, all of the
machines in Pro came in on trailers, and we were the only Pro entry that
was 'driven' to the track.
The track ran time trials until 6:30 or so before the bracket racing was
to start. At 5:28 we made our first pass next to a high powered orange
'69 Chevel. We first got everyone's attention during the burnout. While
the Chevel fried its big slicks, White Zombie also put on quite a smoke
show of its own. Though the powerful Chevel left in a hurry and went on
to run an 11.2, White Zombie gave it a good run for its money off the
blocks, pulling the front tires off the ground at the hole shot and
posting a 1.65 60 ft. time that surprised most everyone watching. After
such a strong launch though, Tim went on to run a lackluster 13.251 @
just 87.35 mph. I couldn't figure out what went wrong, until Tim
confessed that he was a bit unsure where the finish line was and that he
had intentionally hit the brakes. I can't jab him too badly on this,
because I too, have problems in knowing exactly where the finish line is
at PIR, as it's poorly marked.
We had the car charged up in about 15 minutes. Many racers and
spectators came up to us to rave about how our little electric car had
shot off the blocks with its front tires clearly off the ground. The low
13 second 1st run while a disappointment for us, didn't seem to tarnish
their view of our car one bit.
At 6:04 pm, Tim was back at the line for run #2 next to a white early
80's Chevy Nova with a mailbox sized cowl bulge. Tim again took off like
crazy, again lofting the front tires, and posting an even better 1.628
60 ft. time, but the 11.6 second Nova soon got past our car. The
Zombie's 1/8 mile was dispatched in just 7.8 seconds at close to 85 mph,
and the 1/4 mile was a strong 12.592 though at a fairly slow 99.62 mph.
How cool was that, to nail a mid 12 the 2nd run of the night? The
reaction from the crowd was incredible as they probably weren't
expecting a car that had just run a 13.2 to drop down to a mid 12 on the
next pass, and many rushed over to our pit area to take a look under the
hood to see what was under there that could rocket a little Datsun so
quickly down the 1/4 mile...the night was definitely looking up!
Tim made pass #3 at 6:40 pm. We had hoped to be able to adjust the
current of the Zilla up higher in the series mode, but due to my laptop
problems, we couldn't change any settings on this night. White Zombie
was in the right lane and was next to a super powerful 9 second classic
American hotrod, a late 30’s gold Dodge sedan stuffed with a built
monster motor of some kind and wrinkle walls under a tubbed rear
section. White Zombie did an almost identical 60 ft. time with a 1.629
and the 1/8 mile improved to a 7.7 @ 86.48 mph, but it was the best ever
12.340 @ 104.21 mph 1/4 mile ET that blew everyone away, including me!
This was the first time the car has ever run a 12.3 - something, and it
was also a new world record time for a street conversion. The
trailered-in Dodge ran an incredible 9.617 @ 123.23 mph...this was not
the only time the Zombie would be matched up to this car.
Tim returned to the pit area to get the car charged backed up. After
wowing the crowd with that 12.34 ET, many of them had come over to gawk
at the electric car that was blowing their collective minds. We got a
super warm reception from everyone, and it was great fun to answer their
excited questions. There seems to be a threshold while running a street
looking car, in that once you start turning low 12's, the reaction to
the car goes from 'wow, that's pretty quick', to 'wow, that's unreal!'
From Tim:
> Once we found out we were going to be bracket racing, which I have
never done or even really payed attention to, I thought we >would be
quickly eliminated and just run time only runs all night, that never
happened.
The moment to put up or shut up came after just the 3nd run, where Tim
was thrust into bracket racing competition for the first time ever. We
had wanted to run time only type runs, but when I ran up into the tower
to ask the track officials about this, they said we first had to get
eliminated before they would let us mark a 'TO' (time only) on the
window. With this in mind, I told Tim to simply go out and get
eliminated to get it over with, then we could make time only runs for
the rest of the night....hmm, sounded like a good plan. Neither one of
us knew however, that Tim would turn into a racing fiend and that he
would go on to cut great lights and expertly control the car even when
it tried to get a bit sideways on him. Up to this point, the car had
stuck like glue to the track, and as the batteries heated up, it was
getting quicker while its top speed was also rising higher.
After running that 12.340 we decided to dial-in with a 12.25 written in
white shoe polish on the driver's side rear glass. The thought of even
having to dial-in with a ‘12.25’ was still hard for us to comprehend
...wow, the car was running so hard on this night! We had no idea of
what was in store and how insanely quick the car would eventually run on
this night.
4th run at 7:50 pm.... Tim and White Zombie were in the left lane this
time, lined up for what we thought would be our only bracket race of the
night against that same gold colored 9 second Pro Stock 30's Dodge. Both
cars did impressive burnouts, but the race fans were all talking about
how that little Datsun could smoke up its tires like the other Pro
machines. After all my scolding of Tim over some of his past wimpier
burnouts, seems the kid had gotten the message :-) Yeah, Tim was at 100%
on this night. Now, he could bake them just right, just as we had talked
about....long enough to get the tires gooey and sticky (without this,
the car suffers off the line with way too much wheel spin and a far
worse 60 ft. time), long enough to send a message to the guy in the next
lane that we had some serous power to deal with, long enough to excite
racing fans watching an electric perhaps for the first time, but not too
long so as to drain away too much battery power. The other part of the
burnout, is to time things so that you smoke 'em at the same time your
competitor does, so that you time things to where you both quickly
approach the start line while the tires are still sticky. This way, the
effort and power drained to do the burnout pays off with a high traction
launch. Wait too long after the burnout and allow the tires to cool
down, and it's simply wasted power. This is why you never want to do
your burnout before the other guy. For Tim and I, the burnout is
becoming a science.
On this note, after the burnout showdown between the little 'lectrik
Datsun and the ferocious Dodge, the track was suddenly shut down for
about 18 minutes due to an oil spill at the far end of the track from
the previous two cars. Great! We had just dumped battery power for a
pointless burnout. I was up in the tower camera in hand, while Tim sat
out on the track in the car, tires now cold. The Dodge guy turned off
his loping motor, and all went quiet. The good part, was when the
announcer took the time to educate the crowd about the electric car
silently sitting in front of them on the track. He told them how it was
running quicker with each pass and how it was operating at 348V and
pulled 2000 amps from the pack (yeah, I had given him info earlier on he
could refer to). What great PR for the electric car! I was worried that
Tim would do a second burnout, because it was still an unknown issue if
there was enough power in the battery pack to invest without detracting
from the supply needed to make a full powered 1/4 mile pass. If we had
been serious about trying to win in bracket racing, I suppose I would
have also been worried about 'not' doing a second burnout, because as
I've said, it's so important to get the tires heated up for traction off
the line, but this wasn't the case....I was convinced an elimination was
at hand, so why waste the power? To my surprise, Tim put the car back to
the bleach box, and when they gave the go-ahead for the cars to run,
along with the re-started Dodge, White Zombie was blistering its tires
again. I was thinking, "Oh well, here comes an embarrassing, slow run."
It seems Tim and the Zombie had other plans :-)
Tim was of course, given the head start with our slower dial-in of
12.25. The Pro Stock Dodge dialed-in at a low 9.62 would have to play
catch-up. As the Zombie once again jerked both front tires off the
ground with a resultant 'bark' of the rear tires, the crowd went nuts
with lots of 'WHOAs, GEEZZZs, and Oh Shytts!" Because our car got to
leave the lights before the quicker car, everyone could hear the
Zombie’s rear tires bite and bark, then hear the rush of a singing
electric motor up to speed....until the Dodge's massive V8 roared to
life leaving the line :-) With a scant 004 reaction time and a 60 ft. of
1.640, Tim pushed White Zombie to the 1/8 mile marker in 7.726 seconds,
and the 1/4 mile was taken care of with a strong 12.376 @103.72 mph. I
was shocked that the car still had this much soup after doing twin
burnouts. This run backed up the previous 12.340 sealing the deal to
make it a world record run. The guy in the Dodge evidently really put he
pedal to the metal in his bid to catch and overtake the electric car...
evidently tried a little too hard, as while he indeed beat us across the
finish line, he also barely broke out with his super quick 9.617 second
run...the 'Win' light lit up on our side of the track...lots of cheers
from the crowd!
Back in the pit to charge up, the crowd was getting bigger around the
Zombie. The defeated Dodge driver came over to take a closer look at
what he referred to as ‘that badass Datsun’. He commented that when he
saw the electric car launch so hard, lift its front tires off the
ground, and simply haul ass the way it did, he overcompensated and broke
out trying to catch it. He then made the classic remark I’ve heard
before...”How do I explain this to my buddies? I got beat by a battery
powered Datsun!” He then congratulated Tim for beating him, then walked
away still shaking his head. For now, we would leave the 12.25 dial-in
number.
5th run, 8:16 pm....Tim got to do a solo run...something about an odd
number of competitors still in the hunt. After he did an impressive
burnout, these two guys near me were really excited about the car,
talking amongst themselves....”That’s a 510 Datsun. It’s electric. WHAT?
Yeah, see that 12.25 on the window? Hoe-lee Shyt!!! Oh that’s right, it
says Suck Amps on the back. It’s an electric car!” I never bothered to
jump in their conversation, and in a rare moment for this hyper Greek, I
just listened in...great fun. With an identical 60 ft. time of 1.629 as
in the 3rd run, the car again lifted off with a vengeance. The 1/8 mile
flashed by in just 7.667 seconds, but it was the unreal 12.275 ET @
104.78 mph that blew everyone away! Of course, this now, was the new
world record. Could the car possibly get any quicker? And what about
that trap speed approaching 105 mph? Was it be possible to hit 105 mph
tonight?
When Tim got back to the service truck to charge up again, there was
another small crowd waiting to take a peak under the hood of the
electric car that was tearing up the track, now officially in the low
12's! We talked about coming so close to the 12.25 dial-in and with the
car still getting quicker with each run, we figured we'd better drop it
lower. We wiped off the shoe polish and looked for someone with a bottle
of the stuff. A nice racer's wife loaned us the white juice and we put
12.19 on the window...surely, we couldn't get lower than that, right?
Just the sight of seeing 12.19 on the side glass of an old Datsun
econobox running on a bunch of batteries, raised more than a few eyebrows!
6th run, 8:42 pm....Tim was up against an 11 second sinister black ‘69
Camaro, full drag slicks and stuffed with a built big block 454 V8
dialed-in at 11.82, he in the right lane, Tim in the left lane....what a
grudge match this race was!
From Rod Wilde:
>Some guy in the crowd was so excited he grabbed the phone from Johns
hands telling me how the Zombie had ate his neighbors car...
That would be the 454 Camaro. Ever hear the expression 'the difference
is like black and white'? Here was the epitome of that expression in
front of a pumped up crowd.....a black car, a white car, a gas powered
car, an electric powered car, a super loud car, a serenely quiet car, a
classic American muscle car, a Japanese economy car, a sporty type car,
a thrifty sedan...and both were dialed in within .37 seconds of each
other! With the Zombie dialed-in at 12.19, the tree would give Tim a .37
second head start on the Camaro guy. Tim launched the car hard again and
pulled a crazy 60 ft. time of 1.613 as the car lifted and twisted
against the torque of the Siamese 8. The 454 Camaro couldn't quite match
that launch and trailed a pinch with his 1.618 60 ft. time. White Zombie
covered the 1/8 mile in just 7.596 seconds, the quickest 1/8 mile ever
for this car...a 7.59 1/8 mile at just over 87 mph? Unreal! White Zombie
was now running 0 to near 90 mph in less time than a hot street car runs
0-60! The 1/4 mile was an unbelievable 12.181 @105.15 mph, the first
time this car has ever run a 12.1 something...pretty close to cracking
the 11's... and the first time it’s ever gone 105 mph! Another reset of
the SC/A class world record. The Camaro was really coming on at the end
of its run and did a scream'n 11.79 @ 111.98 mph. I thought Tim had
eliminated himself for breaking out past the 12.19 dial-in, but as it
turned out, so did the Camaro guy! In the case where both cars break
out, the one who breaks out the least amount, wins....and so the 'Win'
light came on in our lane, and Tim and the Zombie advanced for yet
another round....the crowd was ecstatic! Get that shoe polish out again....
After coming within .2 seconds of running a high 11, it seemed everyone
was at our pit area after the run, absolutely blown away with the way
our little electric Datsun was powering down the track. We were told the
last two cars in Pro included us! Though Tim’s previous run happened at
8:42, it took him about 8 minutes or so to get back on charge due to
well wishers stopping him on his way back to the service truck charging
area. Tim and I debated about the best dial-in for the last run. He
figured a 12.11, but I thought a 12.05 based on a full charge was the
route to go, because the car just kept getting quicker with each run as
the batteries got hotter. What I didn’t count on, was not getting that
full charge in time before the run...we were told we had to be ready to
return in about 10 minutes! We only got about 2/3 a full charge before
having to unplug and rush over to get staged :-( Where’s that shoe
polish when you need it? Damn, I should’ve listened to Tim!
The final round, 9:06 pm....Another radically built Camaro - this one a
mid 80's style and root beer colored, and the electric car were the last
combatants standing, and the crowd was going nuts over seeing an
electric car kicking ass all night long. The announcer said, “The
electric car, White Zombie, dialed at 12.05 on the right. This is is it,
the Pro finals!” This was a proud moment for me, to say the least.
In spite of not getting a full charge, the Zombie still packed quite a
punch, but not quite enough to take the top eliminator spot....we had to
settle for runner up. On just 2/3 charge level in the pack, the 60 ft.
mark was still the best ever at a scorching 1.611! The 1/8 mile time was
down a pinch at 7.602, but the speed was almost 88 mph, at 87.87 mph,
the fastest ever through the 1/8 mile marker. The quarter mile ET was
also the best ever at 12.151 @ 106.25 mph...the quickest and fastest a
street legal door slammer electric has ever run, and the final reset of
the SC/A class world record. Though the Camaro guy was top eliminator
for the night, the announcer was focused on the electric car, with his
final words being, “12.15, and another ‘EXcellent run for the electric
Datsun!”
After driving to the track, kicking butt on V8s all night with high
octain fast charges and extreme discharges from the Hawker AeroBatteries
through the Zilla Z2K into that custom Siamese 8 motor and down the
aluminum driveshaft to that killer Dutchman rear end setup...everything
worked perfectly, no arcing, no sparking, no snapped axles, no blown
controller, no blown batteries, and a motor who’s brushes and coms
looked like they had just taken a 35 mph cruise through a neighborhood!
We did the final charge and simply drove home.
See Ya....John ‘Plasma Boy’ Wayland
http://plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:54 PM 9/10/05 -0500, John Westlund wrote:
How I wish I could have seen this!
Me too (just a little problem of wrong side of the planet)
Just where are you
going to take this monster? I wonder if Otmar is ready to
build and test a Zilla 3k...
Why? Two motors, two 2000A controllers..... 4000Amps! (peak)
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jimmy, Rush and all
At 09:30 PM 9/10/05 -0700, Jimmy Argon wrote:
Rush,
This is one of those parts I cant afford and build
better ones myself. I attached photos of a switch
Jimmy, it would have been better to send those pics direct to Rush, but
seeing as you didn't I guess you've left yourself open to comments. I don't
mean to be rude, but have you fully tested this switch to the limits of
your comment?
that can handle hundreds of volts and amps.
Um.. hundreds of volts and amps? Have you tried to break one of these
switches at, say 48V and 100A? (wear shaded glasses and have another means
to disconnect - think "arc welding"). Once you have succesfully broken that
voltage and current, please let us know, and keep upping the voltage until
you reach Rush's 180V and break a couple of hundred amps.
I've had people
laugh at it but there were many race cars I beat
<snip>you can build a switch that is very reliable.
I can see that it would be great at up to 24V and 100A or so. But Rush
needs a switch as an emergency breaker for 180volts in a system that can
deliver hundreds of amps, at that voltage.
Be safe
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/10/05, Tim Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Also, they are in monoblocks, so the individual cell operations aren't
> possible.
>
> Monoblock? All of the power packs I've seen for forklifts (count them: two)
> have been cubes about two+ feet on a side, with a hefty steel box and lift
> rings on the upper rim. I would assume that this is the "monoblock" of which
> you wrote... but could one cut-and-jumper over a bad cell? These seemed to
> have bus-bars from cell-to-cell, potted in some sort of plastic.
You quoted me out of context. I actually said:
"I think the difference is that our Nicads are "low maintenance" type.
As you said, they aren't designed to be opened and have the
electrolyte tested or replaced. Also, they are in monoblocks, so the
individual cell operations aren't possible."
- I'm not talking about forklift nicads here, I'm replying to David's
mention of the Saft low-maintenance 6V monoblocks that are commonly
used in EVs. They are different from forklift batteries, and I was
commenting on the differences.
> The forklift repair fellow said the only way he knew how to get rid of these
> things was to ship back to the manufacturer, where they had the EPA-approved
> smelter. He said there IS one place you can ship them to for recycling... in
> Canada...
That's probably true. You have to pay to get rid of the Saft ones as well.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apologies - my "out of context" came from ignorance: the question mark was
there because I really didn't know what you meant. Thanks for the
clarification (and for your other posts I've been reading in the archives).
Saving for GC batteries (sigh),
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: Any life in old forklift nicads?
> On 10/10/05, Tim Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Also, they are in monoblocks, so the individual cell operations
aren't
> > possible.
> >
> > Monoblock? All of the power packs I've seen for forklifts (count them:
two)
> > have been cubes about two+ feet on a side, with a hefty steel box and
lift
> > rings on the upper rim. I would assume that this is the "monoblock" of
which
> > you wrote... but could one cut-and-jumper over a bad cell? These seemed
to
> > have bus-bars from cell-to-cell, potted in some sort of plastic.
>
> You quoted me out of context. I actually said:
> "I think the difference is that our Nicads are "low maintenance" type.
> As you said, they aren't designed to be opened and have the
> electrolyte tested or replaced. Also, they are in monoblocks, so the
> individual cell operations aren't possible."
>
> - I'm not talking about forklift nicads here, I'm replying to David's
> mention of the Saft low-maintenance 6V monoblocks that are commonly
> used in EVs. They are different from forklift batteries, and I was
> commenting on the differences.
>
> > The forklift repair fellow said the only way he knew how to get rid of
these
> > things was to ship back to the manufacturer, where they had the
EPA-approved
> > smelter. He said there IS one place you can ship them to for
recycling... in
> > Canada...
>
> That's probably true. You have to pay to get rid of the Saft ones as
well.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 10/7/05
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Everyone,
I was reading the Concorde Website and they had an AGM 6V battery on
there. I was wondering if anyone had tried this in an EV. The battery is a
Concorde Sunextender PVX-2240T. It is the same size as a Trojan T-105 and
has a 223 AH C/24 rate. I don't know why they don't have a C/20 rate but it
is pretty close to what the T-105s put out. The batteries are $174 each but
I think the extra cost would be worth it if they lasted longer and there was
no maintenance involved.
Jody
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This looks so much like what I'm making except all nice a new looking , ,
48v and 200 ah ,,... my first test model was 72v with 30 ah orbitals . well
they got there's done before me >.... no 2 with the electric motors instead
of the hydrolic motors is using about 20 to 40 amp at 48v to drive ,
compared to the 50 to 75 amps at 72v the no 1 took this is a step in the
right direction , blades still use alot , 100 to 150 amp .
steve clunn
Lawless Industries Ltd from Youngstown, Ohio will be taking on all of the
major world manufacturers of Lawn, Garden, & Power Equipment October 14-16
in Louisville Ky at the industry's huge annual exposition !!! Our "Zero"
mower will be in our booth # 1940. It will be available for inspection and
demo for the 25,000 attendees. With 63 HP and 132 ft-lbs. of torque it
will be the most powerful Zero-turn mower at the entire show. The 4000
watt onboard inverter should provide plenty of power for our booth lights.
Admission for prospective buyers is via the expo website. Here is the link
http://expo.mow.org/. If you happen to be in the Lousiville area stop by
and see us. You can get more specs on the mower at our website at
http://www.zeromow.com.
Wish us Luck,
Shawn Lawless
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Has anyone used this stuff? Does it really work?
http://www.batteryequaliser.com
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No problem.
by the way, here's the data for the Saft so you can see what we're
talking about:
http://www.saft.fr/120-Techno/10-10_produit.asp?paramtechno=Nickel+systems&Intitule_Produit=STM
and I think someone posted the a scan of a manual for aircraft nicads
a little while ago.
Regards
Evan
On 10/10/05, Tim Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Apologies - my "out of context" came from ignorance: the question mark was
> there because I really didn't know what you meant. Thanks for the
> clarification (and for your other posts I've been reading in the archives).
>
> Saving for GC batteries (sigh),
>
> -Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Any life in old forklift nicads?
>
>
> > On 10/10/05, Tim Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Also, they are in monoblocks, so the individual cell operations
> aren't
> > > possible.
> > >
> > > Monoblock? All of the power packs I've seen for forklifts (count them:
> two)
> > > have been cubes about two+ feet on a side, with a hefty steel box and
> lift
> > > rings on the upper rim. I would assume that this is the "monoblock" of
> which
> > > you wrote... but could one cut-and-jumper over a bad cell? These seemed
> to
> > > have bus-bars from cell-to-cell, potted in some sort of plastic.
> >
> > You quoted me out of context. I actually said:
> > "I think the difference is that our Nicads are "low maintenance" type.
> > As you said, they aren't designed to be opened and have the
> > electrolyte tested or replaced. Also, they are in monoblocks, so the
> > individual cell operations aren't possible."
> >
> > - I'm not talking about forklift nicads here, I'm replying to David's
> > mention of the Saft low-maintenance 6V monoblocks that are commonly
> > used in EVs. They are different from forklift batteries, and I was
> > commenting on the differences.
> >
> > > The forklift repair fellow said the only way he knew how to get rid of
> these
> > > things was to ship back to the manufacturer, where they had the
> EPA-approved
> > > smelter. He said there IS one place you can ship them to for
> recycling... in
> > > Canada...
> >
> > That's probably true. You have to pay to get rid of the Saft ones as
> well.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 10/7/05
> >
> >
>
>
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Hi All,
I am tossing up between an Albright sw180 contactor at evparts rated at 150
amp continuous and 500 for 1 min. Does not have magnetic blow out on this
model. Cost 67.50, can get it for 45 though.
And a kilovac bubba great voltage ratings and amperage ratings. Cost 97.50
Any thoughts. I know the Albright has serviceable contacts and my car
hopefully will not pull that many amps. Running 72 volt @450amp max from the
alltrax controller.
Cheers
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:55 PM
Subject: Those Allbright contactors
I just got my portion of the Allbright contactor order (Thanks so
much, Rick, for coordinating the buy).
I'd like to get some of these , any chance of a second order
These are the ones with the 56 volt coils. Fortunately these are
trivially easy to rewind for 12 volts. I'll have some info available
on my web site in a day or two.
I have one and unwound it last night , a lot of wire on there >..... so what
size and how many turns for 12v . ?
If anyone else needs the rewinding done, I'll do one for $20 plus
shipping, a little less for multiple coils. Contact me off-list if
you're interested.
not a bad deal as it took me 15 mim with my lathe just to get the wire off .
steve clunn
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James,
He did send me some pictures directly.
I have seen homemade switches before and all of the users seem to have never
had a problem. One was on a 160 vdc system and the owner tested it under load
and it disconnected fine with no arcing.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: 180 V Circuit Breaker
> Hi Jimmy, Rush and all
>
> At 09:30 PM 9/10/05 -0700, Jimmy Argon wrote:
>>Rush,
>>This is one of those parts I cant afford and build
>>better ones myself. I attached photos of a switch
>
> Jimmy, it would have been better to send those pics direct to Rush, but
> seeing as you didn't I guess you've left yourself open to comments. I don't
> mean to be rude, but have you fully tested this switch to the limits of
> your comment?
>
>>that can handle hundreds of volts and amps.
>
> Um.. hundreds of volts and amps? Have you tried to break one of these
> switches at, say 48V and 100A? (wear shaded glasses and have another means
> to disconnect - think "arc welding"). Once you have succesfully broken that
> voltage and current, please let us know, and keep upping the voltage until
> you reach Rush's 180V and break a couple of hundred amps.
>
>> I've had people
>>laugh at it but there were many race cars I beat
>><snip>you can build a switch that is very reliable.
>
> I can see that it would be great at up to 24V and 100A or so. But Rush
> needs a switch as an emergency breaker for 180volts in a system that can
> deliver hundreds of amps, at that voltage.
>
> Be safe
>
> James
>
>
>
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Hey all
First off, thanks for a great play by play report from Wayland. As he and I
had talked since the race I knew all the facts, but its always special to hear
John describe the blow-by-blow account of the events. As those Hawkers wake up
there should be no doubt the car will reach the 11s as is. To those wanting
to know about an ADC twin 9 (I like the name X29) it will be in the works soon,
but not for Waylands car. In fact on his last visit I was able to show him the
shortened ADC9 Im working on for Jay Donnaway. It wasnt until I put Markos
(now longer) ADC 8 next to it, that he stated two 9s would indeed fit into a
Datson.
Now I had been planning to put a set of modified ADC 9s into the little 72
Datson fastback Matt and I picked up last month. This is still the master plan
but last week we did some shop arranging and I found an old 48-volt Baker drive
motor. This motor is 12 in diameter and is only around 12 long. A pair of
these units @12X 24 would in fact make a really nice lower voltage drive
unit. I cant help but wonder if in fact they might be able to do what Zombie
is doing, but at lets say 156 volts (maybe 2 strings of 120) instead of the 348
pushing the Zombie. These motors would weigh a tad more than a pair of ADC 9s
so it would be a monster of a motor set up. They would probable weigh in
around the Yellow Beast weight of 350Lbs. which is to be installed into Johns
Purple Phase mini-truck.
As John Westlund questioned what will the next 12 to 18 months bring? I know
for me it will (I hope) bring a few more mad-ass R&D motor designs from us at
Hi-Torque Electric.
I was wondering though? Has anyone else noticed that Tim seems to be doing all
the driving here lately?? Hey John is that little Ol Datson getting to fast
for you old man???
Or is that just part of your master plan to steal the Purple Phase racer for
yourself, and keep Tim in the Zombie ; )
Keep up the good work
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:How I wish I could have seen this! I
saw the video of the
12.151 on your site and was amazed at how well this car
performed. I can't help but expect that one of these days,
your car will have to race the Tango. Better get it into the
11s as soon as you can!
Do you happen to have any reactions from the V8 drivers on
tape from that night or from your runs on 9/24? I bet they
shat themselves, to see this tiny white sardine can powered
by batteries and essentially a modified forklift motor(well,
two motors combined into one), dusting off high 12 second
heavily modifed DSMs, coming close to high 11 second V8
Camaros, and even putting up such a show as to draw the
crowd away from a 9 second hotrod.
You must be proud of your work, but you're not done yet.
Every bit of hard work and cash that has gone into this car,
the Dutchman's axel, the Hawker Aerobatteries, Jim Husted's
mad voodoo motor, Otmar's magic Zilla 2k, all of that would
not have made the car what it is without your vision for it.
Where do you see this car going? I understand it is not
easy, but just look at the thing! It's not hard to see that
this car is grazing the 11s, and just might touch them with
its current setup. Look at it. It's still got street tires!
Just where do you want this car to go, what are you going to
do to it to make it get there, and do you see it
accomplishing that goal?
Roderick Wilde has done 11s on non street tires. I hope you
can one-up his ass and smash his record *with* street tires.
Just might awake that sleeping beast rusting away in his
garage to start, and will provide yet more motivation to
make the Zombie faster.
Is a Siamese 9'' in its future? How about a single 13'' or
that mythical 15''? I can see comparing DC motor size akin
to comparing penis size in the near future among EVers, all
because of your car. Just think about it. Just where are you
going to take this monster? I wonder if Otmar is ready to
build and test a Zilla 3k...
A 12.151 looks like a difficult feat, but you've shown that
you can do that. I wish I had that kind of knowledge and
experience, because one of these days, I'd like to do the
same thing, maybe even faster.
I look forward to the next racing season. You went from a
12.99 to a 12.15 in 18 months. Who knows where another 12 or
18 months will take this car, but so far you've been doing
something very right.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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Hello to All,
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hi John,
I think it has been commented before that the street tires of
White Zombie are wrinkling on the first bite on taking off,
as can be seen in the video that starts with the sparking
brush, followed by a good take-off.
Yes they are. It's one of the reasons these particular tires bite so
hard off the line, as they slightly mimic wrinkle wall drag slicks (only
slightly). Tim marked the tires and wheels with a small white line so we
could monitor tire slippage on the rims. One tire has spun a tiny bit on
its rim, but it's not enough to worry us.
What struck me when looking frame for frame was that the first
movement of the car appeared to be the left rear wheel shooting
forward by more than an inch (the right rear wheel changes angle,
but not position) followed by the right rear wheel biting and
shooting forward too, including wrinkling.
Yup, we noticed this too. It's not a real good situation, but it's one
we've not had time to correct yet. We started to do it one week, but
then figured we didn't have the time to do it right, and so left it as
it was. It has to do with several things. The main culprit is the
traction bar length, they're about 3 inches too short. Their snubbers
'should' be hitting right at the leading spring eye, but instead, hit
about 2.5 inches behind it on the spring body, which allows the springs
to still wind up, though certainly nothing like they do minus the
traction bars. We need to remove both bars, build new rectangular tube
sections, shape them just so (they have to have an angle cut on the end
to allow access for bolting-in the snubber), weld them in place to
effectively lengthen them, paint them, then reinstall and adjust the
snubber.
If this all sounds like a lot of work, you're right! One can't just go
out and buy traction bars for a little Datsun 1200 :-)
It seems that the power from the motor gets to the left rear
wheel earlier than to the right side one...
Not exactly. Power gets to both wheels wheels at the same time due to
the Detroit Locker. You are right, in that the left wheel 'appears' to
get the power before the right one. Here's what's happening. Because the
motor turns counter clockwise, the reaction torque twists the car body
clockwise (Newton's 3rd law....for every force, there is an equal and
opposite force). On one of the videos we have, you can really see the
car body twisting on launch. I'm not sure if I have that one up at the
site yet. Anyway, when the body twists to where it is higher on the
driver's side than on the passenger side, it unloads the left rear wheel
while it more heavily loads the right one.
I cannot explain
why one side would not move while the other is already more
than one inch ahead.
I can. As one tire bites and stays planted, the other is wrapping up its
leaf spring (the fault of the mis-sized traction bars). Thus, the axle
pivots on the tire that is planted, and that's why the planted tire's
angle changes but it does not wander fore and aft. The other tire can
move fore and aft as its spring is wrapping up and down. The Detroit
Locker's job is to monitor the wheel slip from side to side. When it
senses the right wheel not spinning but sees that the left one is, it
transfers power to the left one a bit more, then it bites. About the
same time the left wheel is biting and the right one has less torque
applied to it, the car body is twisting back to a more level position
which now loads the left wheel more than it had been, while at the same
time it relieves the right wheel of the higher than normal loading it
first had....now it's time for the right spring to wrap up and move the
right side fore and aft as the left wheel stays planted.
Yeah, the Woodburn video was pretty telling, wasn't it? We're hoping
that with the first heavy Oregon Fall rains coming to a temporary halt
starting today, and with our 'Indian Summer' apparently beginning this
week (the forecast is for high 60's and lots of sun for up two weeks in
a row), and that with work schedules permitting, Tim and I can pull the
traction bars, get together with Marko Mongillo our expert metal
fabricator, and fix the traction bar length problem.
We're planning on making a try for the high 11's this weekend. With my
laptop problems solved, we'll be able to adjust the Zilla track side. If
we can get the same high traction as we did on that fun Wednesday night,
once the batteries heat up and we're close to the 11's, I'll crank up
the Zilla to a full 2000 amps in the series mode to see how much extra
performance is still untapped in this car. With the longer traction bars
putting the lift a little farther ahead at the spring eye, the car's
weight transfer will be even better, which should reduce the 60 ft. time
to maybe the 1.59 second area. The front end will come up a little more,
hopefully just the right amount and not too much!
Keep in mind, we still have the battery pack held at 1000 amps.
According to Hawker, we could probably pull 1100 amps for an 11-12
second time period and not blow any batteries. If we 'can' hit an
11.9-something with traction bar problems cured and the series mode
motor current at 2000 amps, it makes one wonder how quick this car could
run with an 1100 amp battery pack current limit!
For some unexplained reason, I've shown considerable restraint in the
way I've guided this car along its journey into and through the 12s
(man, that sounds good), and it seems to be working well. Along with all
of the effort from Tim as well, we've got a good combination between us.
I will continue with this plan and not change too many things too
drastically or prematurely, so the only two mods for this weekend's runs
will be the redesigned traction bars and a change to the full 2000 amps
in series mode (only if there's enough traction on the track)...that
1100 battery amp thing will have to wait.
Se Ya..,,John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
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