EV Digest 4855
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The 'range issue' (long)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Range Isuue
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Relative pollution (was permission... was range...)
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) unsubscribe
by Randy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 20 mi range: 120 VDC vs 96 VDC pack
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lift-off at 6:00 Tonight at PIR!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Relative pollution (was permission... was range...)
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Walmart heater cores, how to wire in series?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Lift-off at 6:00 Tonight at PIR!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: clutchless vw
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Insurance
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) I'm starting an EV drag racing team
by "Barry Reiswerg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Sudden drop in voltage
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lift-off at 6:00 Tonight at PIR!
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Walmart heater cores, how to wire in series?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: 240vac charging from two 120 outlets?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Hooking up three battery chargers in series
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Sudden drop in voltage
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: The 'range issue' , charging at work
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) high voltage heater options?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) ADC Regen again
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Walmart heater cores
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe what we need is to see some commercial recharging stations.
For example. the mall kiosk metaphore.
A buisness that rents 2 adjacet parking stalls with power.
The mall gains the additional foot traffic and is payed for the use of
the space.
The buisness sells the power at a profit (legal question can you
resell power? or just semantics; power free service is .25/kwh)
ATM card style billing or small cash reader(no cash means no risk of
someone stealing it)
or Users could enter phone# and passcode and the internal modem
connects and keeps track and charges it as a phone call on your bill?
Calling charger phone number gets automated voice of in use or not,
type in passcode and it tells you how much charge you have.
Internet connection and mini web server lets the status of all kiosks
be checked by owner. (always on cell connection? :-) )
etc.
Bigger buisness
EV parts store and coffee shop with chargeing.
To heck with the malls, target the starbucks!
I think at the moment chargeing(as in not free) is best, it shows off
the practicality to gassers and gives incentive to start buisnesses.
Question 1
Because Isolation is such an issue, as has been discussed on this
list, and we can't know what chargers are gonna plug in, would putting a
isolation transformer in the station protect the public reguardless of
the onboard charger.
Question 2
Since we only provide 110 or 220, we wouldn't need to worry about
pack voltages, but what about limiting amperage draw other than a
breaker tripping? would that just be the responsibility of the patron?
I have been thinking of starting a chargeing station at my house, but
it isn't anywhere special in a town with very few EV'ers; Fresno California.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robinson said:
<snip>
"Regardless of our politics most of us on this list are believers, for our own
different reasons. Some have simply seen the desirable traits of EVs
and feel it's worth whatever hassles they present, others do so for
philosophical or idealistic reasons; some just think they're a cool, geeky
technical challenge. But what most everyone here has in common is the unusual
choice they've made -- a choice which by its very nature tends
to make a lot of people politely smile and say 'that's very nice.'"
Amen, brother! A little reality check isn't prohibited by the list rules, is
it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Then there is the matter that any document claiming that EVs are
> cleaner than modern gas cars is simply false. Especially until
> nuclear becomes the predominant source for electricity. A manager
> with some technical competence will quickly recognize the fiction
> presented as truth.
Is this true?
I though that even with 100% coal power, EVs were cleaner by almost
any measure.
Thanks!
Nick, you're only right if you consider actual studies to be relevant. If you
prefer to just make an assertion without any actual data to back it
up with as the basis for forming an opinion, John is on solid ground.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unsubscibe
Please unsubscibe this email address. I am already getting the forum at my new
address.
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[This email is copied to the EVlist as an fyi and to encourage
views to be POSTed to the EVlist on this topic]
I have 14 wet cells mounted in my rear passenger compartment, with
no problems. I would not charge gel cells using a BC-20 charger.
Gels need a charger that has to have a gel-cell charging algorithm
(ie Zivan, or PFC).
...
Let's look at both the performance difference with a 96 VDC pack
and the amount of cycling with reducing your pack from 120V to 96V.
Though not a fair test because the batteries are still in the
vehicle, I suggest you try connecting your pack at 96V to
feel the performance difference. I think you will stay with the
120 VDC pack.
If you can charge at 96V with this configuration, then you can also
see the range reduction of a 96 VDC pack.
If it were me driving your EV, I would first see the amp-hour per
price differential from your US dealer. I my case, my local dealer
sells more US125's than any other of the traction batteries. Thus
he could give me the best amp hours to price, price break. The
US-2200 came in second. The more they sell the better the Ah/price
break.
If your amp-hour per price is similar to mine (the best amp-hour
per price was the US125), then staying at 120VDC will pay off by
having more range when your pack is tired and at its end of life.
Because you are not using the total amount of the range of a
healthy pack, the total cycle life of a less range need will be
longer.
ta
Bruce
--- "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Thanks for the advice - I have a local supplier of the US 125
> that sells them for $65ea. It sounds like that will be a good
> cell for me.
>
> I also considered a 8GGC2 gel cell, but that runs $130/cell. I
> like the idea of sealed cells since they are mostly mounted
> within the passenger compartment, but I may have to opt for a
> vented battery box instead.
>
> My intended driving profile is a 20 mile round trip at 35mph all
> the way (some small hills - but, mostly flat). Would you
> recommend keeping the system at 120v or dropping it somewhat -
> like 96v (to save weight, charging time & batt cost)?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Craig
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Mark Farver wrote:
I need to figure out the RPM to speed conversion. I think John said
his rear tires are down to 23.5" circumference, and the rear end ratio
is 4.74.
Mark, you somehow heard or remember this wrong. What I said was, that
going from memory, I thought they were 24.3 inches in diameter, and that
I figured they were now worn down to about 24 inches or so. I just
checked the BF Goodrich website, and the new version Drag Force street
drag radial (a different tread altogether but the same 215/60/14 size)
is 24.2 inches...pretty close to what my memory recalled. I also
measured the tires just now, and holding parallel straight edges against
the leading and trailing tire center, I get 24 inches on the nose.
I think John has 13" tires, so a rough circumference is 13*pi = or
about 40 inches. I must have heard him wrong.
Though the Datsun 1200 came with 12 inch wheels and tires (12 x 4.5 inch
rims with skinny 155 SR12 tires), White Zombie now has 175/50/13 rubber
mounted on the front 13 x 5.5 rims, and 215/60/14 rubber mounted on the
rear 14 x 6 inch rims.
Zombie trivia.....The Dutchman rear axle sports 5 bolt Ford front wheel
drive offset wheels, while the front has 4 bolt Nissan rear wheel drive
offset wheels. I searched long and hard to find a manufacturer who made
a wheel I found gorgeous, and, that was made in various versions to fit
different vehicle types. The clean looking 5 spoke polished Eagle series
188 alloys I selected, fit this criteria. Thus, the wheels are a match
in look, fit, and finish on my car, even though they are two different
diameters (14 vs 13), have two different offsets (FWD vs RWD), and
feature two different widths (6 inches vs 5.5 inches). The result, is
that the car looks as if it came from the factory this way. The fat rear
tires neatly and just barely, tuck up into the rear fender wells, while
the fronts have the same proportional fit, too.
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have hydroelectric power, then they're cleaner...
What about off-peak charging?
And unless you have a hybrid (congrats if you do), you're wasting a lot
of power in those brakes!
Noise pollution? Ya, it's a problem on a college campus...
I'd rather the pollution be up higher in the clouds than right next to
where I'm walking...
And who knows, maybe I'll buy a wind generator someday. And add on some
solar panels (and friendlily encourage my neighbors to do the same). At
least I have that *option* with an EV.
[OT]:
Of course you can't prove that EVs are always cleaner. Mine certainly
isn't (but it's not done yet). We haven't proven mathematical theorems
either...still, they've never failed me.
The thing about nuclear power is that, like oil, it's compressing many,
many millions of years of production into a few years of consumption.
This is fundamentally dangerous because it throws off the path to
sustainability (it becomes impossible). I prefer oil power to nuclear
power. Why? Because I know it'll run out soon! :-)
And a thing about negativity and grumpiness. When I was 12, I asked my
father if he thought I could program an Internet browser into a TI-86
graphing calculator. He said no (or so he guessed). A year later, I
proved him quite wrong. I thought I could do it; and *because* of that,
I did it. What shows the idea even better? I've taken the Texas
Instruments thing a bit further than calculators and I'm presenting at
the MSP430 ATC in Texas a week from now (about energy efficiency, of
course). Be positive about EVs and you'll succeed!
- Arthur
(Who is now a graduate student)
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/bldc_atc.gif
> > Then there is the matter that any document claiming that EVs are
> > cleaner than modern gas cars is simply false. Especially until
> > nuclear becomes the predominant source for electricity. A manager
> > with some technical competence will quickly recognize the fiction
> > presented as truth.
>
> Is this true?
>
> I though that even with 100% coal power, EVs were cleaner by almost
> any measure.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Nick, you're only right if you consider actual studies to be relevant. If
> you prefer to just make an assertion without any actual data to back it
> up with as the basis for forming an opinion, John is on solid ground.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ref:
1----/\/\/----2----/\/\/----3----/\/\/----4----/\/\/----5
Which is better?
a) connect #3 to neutral and #1 and #5 to 300V
or
b) connect #1 to neutral and #5 to 300V
stock is 110vac accross each PTC
a is 150VDC accross each PTC
b is 300/4 or 75 vdc accross each PTC
Is 'a' closer to the same power as original than 'b'?
will the PTC self limit to 5 amps when it comes up to temp?
60*5*4 = 1200Watts
4*5*150 = 3000Watts !!!
4*75*5 = 1500Watts
or is it self limiting wattage
(1500W/4#) /150V = 2.5Amps (smaller wire and relay)
(1500W/4#) /75V = 5.0AMps
http://www.ptc-heater.com.tw/PTC_element_eng.htm resistance is given in watts?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I forgot to address this part:
Mark Farver wrote:
.....and the rear end ratio is 4.74.
It's a 4:57 ratio.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:26:45 -0600
> Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
> http://www.devc.org/
I'm interested in this as I live in Denver too. Can you tell me more?
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick--
You want a _concept_, not a company:
The concept is:
STATED VALUE POLICY: (yes, I'm yelling on purpose; EV
drivers have lost too much in the past!) Basically,
you prove it's worth 8,000 in parts, so that you don't
get bottom ICE compensation (ie, a Civic like mine is
$3000 at best)
and
a company that has no issue with 3rd party
conversions.
I go with Allstate. While I haven't needed a claim
yet, they DID go with the concept. Ie, I've sent them
all supporting documents, and have been told I'm on a
stated value policy. They know it's a 3rd party
conversion.
It's no different in cost to me. I'm paying basically
under $300 twice a year for my normal policy
gas-burner Odyssey and $300 for the CivicWithACord
twice per year.
Fair warning:
1) Not all Allstate reps. will go with either of
these scenarios! Stunning, eh?
2) Only 2 of 10 companies I surveyed will do this.
All insurance companies whine about how they're
getting screwed on global warming losses, but very few
will pony up to the bar and do a d__n thing about it
by insuring cars that emit less CO2.
(Off soapbox mode).
Good luck with the search.
peace ,
--- Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Are there any particularly good companies for EV
> insurance?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't find any EV drag racing teams in Georgia, so I'm going to start one.
My long term goal is to build a muscle car sized vehicle from the ground up
that can run a 13 second quarter mile.
Before jumping in to that, I want to build a small proof of concept vehicle
(probably 48V class). There is a NEDRA (www.NEDRA.com) event in Palm Beach,
Florida on January 21st that I would love to compete in.
I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who wants to help in any way. If
you don't live near Atlanta, I won't turn down anyone who wants to be
involved.
If the idea sounds cool to you, email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Barry Reiswerg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are noticing the typical voltage drop due to low
temperatures. Even here in Arizona there is a
considerable drop in range (approx 20%) when the
temperature drops to around 55F (remember that is a 55
deg drop from summer). I have heard that old waterbed
heaters (sandwiched between heat spreaders) can be
used as battery heaters, they even have a thermostat!
a steady <5 amp charge is a good way to keep the
temperatures up even when the pack is charged.
Jimmy
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I always try to keep it above 115.. And it was at
> 120 when I was crossing the street until it just
> dropped like a rock.
> I'm going to bring it into the garage and have a
> look at it. Maybe it is the cold but I can't believe
> I only have a 20 mile range in the cold with that
> much lead and my slow and flat commute. I'm really
> hoping I have a mechanical problem.
>
>
> Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark Hastings wrote:
> > I have been driving my used S-15 conversion with
> new batteries for about 6 months or so. The
> batteries have been well maintained. Water level is
> good, connections are tight, voltage is inline when
> I checked on the first of the month.
> > On my way home last night which would be mile 20
> or so of my daily driving I had just crossed over a
> highway onto the road into town when my voltage
> dropped from 120 to <90 on my 126 volt pack. I
> pulled over and checked and no loose connections or
> hot terminals. Everything looked ok.. If I drove at
> <50 amps then it was fine so after waiting a few
> minutes I limped the last could miles home keeping
> it above 120 and pulling over for everyone to pass.
> > When I got home I turned my heater on to keep some
> load on the batteries and checked the voltages. One
> battery was at 5.8 volts and the rest were at 6.05
> or so. Could a single reversed cell cause that huge
> of a voltage drop? It wasn't dry inside or hot to
> touch anywhere. Or because the weather has now
> dipped below 75 degrees did my short 22-24 mile
> commute suddenly become impossible with my 21
> US2200s. When I had my emeter hooked up the commute
> would take around 60 amps.
> > I hadn't even thought the texas winter could pose
> any problems after having EVs in connecticut buried
> in snow and still being able to make it.
> >
> Hm. I have noticed my voltage dropping on the Prizm
> now that it's in the
> 40's at night/50's day. What used to be in the 290's
> is now in the 280's
> with dips to 275 at 180amp draws (300v pack,52ah).
>
> How low do you usually go when driving? I tend to
> keep the pack above
> 11vpb (275 or so) at all times, and stay out of the
> 260's. The
> controller has a lockout at 250 (10vpb), but that's
> low on a long string.
>
> Also is it possible to reverse a battery just
> because it's cold?
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
Mark Farver wrote:
I need to figure out the RPM to speed conversion.
Heh, thats what I get for talking to you on the phone while in the
middle of trying to figure out the Ranger DC/DC module. I should have
asked you to email it to me.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That launch was crazy. Love how it almost needs wheelie
bars. Zombie is getting dangerously close to Maniac Mazda.
*pokes Rod*
Gettin' a little rusty, eh?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I liked seeing the front left tire stall in mid air.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I buy the trojans with a horizontal hole
through the terminal (post), I then use cables with
flat terminals and use a 3/8-24 bolt for termination.
The fine thread makes it easier to tighten the
connection without over-squeezing the lead post. This
is much better than the 3/8-18 thread and will not
come loose as often. I check my connections about 3
times a year. This is a lot easier to deal with since
I dont have to worry about the positive and negative
clamp terminals. I can move cables around without
worrying about left or right hand terminals. also, it
is cheaper since I make my own terminals. I have 2
going on 3EVs, so cables are a big issue for me. I
will be building a new set of cables for my "new" '81
Jet Electrica soon.
Jimmy
ps - Since I have to cut off the carry brackets on
each battery, I use the hole in the post to pick up
the batteries using a nylon rope.
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Max current w/top terminal UPS
> batteries?
>
> Hi All;
>
> It goes to show ya; the older tech is the best.
> WHY did battery folks and
> auto makers settle on the automotive post as long
> ago as I can remember, 50
> years ago, any OLDER folks here? Cars in the 30's
> and 40's
> used............the Automotive posts. Duh! I'lll bet
> that they go back to
> the beginning of time. Battery wise?? The tightining
> up of the terminal
> holds things TIGHT so the lead can't ooze out.
>
> My two foot lbs worth
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction!
The bolts I use are 5/16-24 not 3/8-24.
Jimmy
--- Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually I buy the trojans with a horizontal hole
> through the terminal (post), I then use cables with
> flat terminals and use a 3/8-24 bolt for
> termination.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A case of beer often works wonders... seriously. Get to know the
facilities staff. Show off your vehicle, let them take it for a ride. Suck
up to them. Once they are "charged" up about the car, drop a subtle comment
about "opportunity charging". Very effective, less paperwork.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adams, Lynn
Sent: October 25, 2005 1:25 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue'
(long))
Ok, this thread is getting very interesting. Perhaps if we put together all
of our ideas on how get permission (from cooperative or non-cooperative
employers) we could increase the availability of charging locations.
Here are my first ideas:
1) If you work at a company that has fleet vehicles, talk to the fleet
vehicle manager. They are aware of many of the state/local advantages to
alternative fuel vehicles. (This has worked for me)
2) Talk to maintenance and facility people. They usually know where the
outlets are and often assign parking spaces too.
3) Get endorsements from the local chapter of the Asthma or American Lung
Association (or local equivalent) The ALA has been very supportive of
electric vehicles in Denver
4) Learn about potential tax advantages for installation of "alternative
fuel vehicle refueling stations" In Colorado there is a large tax credit
available to employers to install them. There is even a larger credit if
those refueling stations are available for public use.
5) Do the calculations and offer to pay for your fuel. Use real numbers
and the actual electric rate your employer pays. Most people think that
will be $25 or more per week - $1,220 per year (that's what they pay for
their commuting fuel). When they find out you need less than $2.00 per week
for fuel, they may realize the cost is insignificant. Maybe compare it to
what it takes to run one of those 1500 W space heaters.
6) Take all the information you can find about the tons of pollutants you
are not dumping into their air, summarize how much CO, CO2, Nox etc you
avoid putting into the air over a year. Put it into a report.
Review it with your company medical or insurance contact. Get their
support.
7) Get a human interest article in your company newsletter. Be sure to
provide the newsletter with all the above information.
Finally take all of this information put it in a well written portfolio and
present it to a person that can make a real decision. The janitor, The
owner, the CEO, the CEO's spouse, whoever. Just don't mess with people that
can only say no (most of middle management). Walk them through the
portfolio and be prepared to discuss details if asked.
Good luck
Lynn Adams
My employer has installed a 240V outlet at each of our locations for me to
use. Neither is near the front door, but one is out of the weather under
the loading dock!
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pool, Ryan
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: The 'range issue' (long)
We've been down that road. After volunteering all of that I was told that
allowing me to charge at work would amount to giving me a reserved parking
space which would also go against company policy.
I believe the people I spoke to were really reaching and grasping at straws.
I don't believe they were being honest with me, but until I can find out
their true reasoning for denying allowing me to charge I won't really know
why they are being dishonest.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:36 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' (long)
On 10/25/05, Pool, Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And don't forget it also needs to be more reliably accessible! I've
> been told I can't charge at work because then my company would be
> providing me a benefit that they wouldn't be providing anyone else and
> that they wouldn't benefit from letting me charge. Until I can
> overcome that or reduce my range requirements I'm nervous about taking
> on building an EV.
A suggestion; offer to pay for the installation of the outlet, electricity
you use, plus a token monthly fee for the service. Then, they're not
providing you a "benefit" - it's a service, bought and paid for. The
company benefits through the payment, and if they want it could be used as
something interesting to put in the company newsletter, or local press
publicity.
I guess I'm pretty lucky in that my company agreed to do this for me.
But, persevere, and ask nicely, and you may get somewhere.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
For your 300vdc pack, just connect it to 1 and 5 (all 4 resistors in
series). With your car's larger fan, you may well find that you are
getting more than 1500 watts of heat. Measure the current; 1500w / 300v
= 5 amps.
One other way to wire them up, connect 1, 3, and 5 together (lets call
it #1), and 2 and 4 together (lets call it #2) for each individual
heater. Then wire them all in series. #1 of the first is the power in,
#2 goes to #1 of the next unit, #2 of the next unit goes to #1 of the
third unit, and #2 of the third unit is the other side pack connection.
This gives you a big 360 volt heater, where Lee's way gives you 3, 480
volt heaters. It also spreads the voltage out - dropping a wet leaf
across one heater core puts about 120 volts across it.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Once 'bitten' twice shy!
Then why do you not install an appropriate outlet and continue
the dangerous practice?
Some time ago I heard a DoItYourselfer that got burned when he
figured that when his service was down, he could simply roll
out his extension cord, cut the receptacle and replace it by
a plug, one end goes in the wall at the neighbors and the other
plug goes in the wall at his house.
I am not sure but I think the insurance did not want to pay.
In your case: if you need 35A then install at least 35A.
You can never ever leave your equipment for a second, because
anybody could walk in, unplug one cord to power another tool
and getting SHOCKED because nobody expects a plug to be live.
Likewise the 2x 120V to get 240V. Simply install a 240V outlet
(don't you have a dryer or range already installed?)
My house has no 240V outlets near the garage/driveway although
the breaker box is in the garage wall, so what I will do if I
need 240V is to mount an extra 50A range outlet parallel to the
one in the kitchen (the wire runs through the garage) and since I
will likely not be cooking and charging at the same time, all is
well and what is more important: all is safe.
NOTE that with the 2x 120V if your car is plugged in and one
of the 120V plugs is removed it carries the full 120V from the
other outlet at its pins!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of stU
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:33 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: 240vac charging from two 120 outlets?
I am using 2-120 VAC extension cords from 2-20AMP breakers on the same side
of the 220 VAC breaker box that I plug my duplex receptacle into for 120 VAC
35 AMP welder.
Works very well and after hours of welding, no excess heat anywhere.
Do the same but from the opposite sides and you will have 220 (240) VAC.
Measure your extension cords with a multimeter ----~I: ----~I:
: to : to see 220 VAC. (little slot to little slot) If you see only 120
VAC, find another outlet until you see 220 VAC..
It works like a charm for me.
BTW I use a switch to connect the 2 hots together. The white neutrals are
always connected. My converter box is a square box made for 2 receptacles or
a receptacle and a switch. I have 2 very short wires ~8" and 2 plugs
coming out the side. Be careful before throwing the switch. Make sure that
after the first plug is mated to the first extension cord, the second plug
is cold. I use 2 different colored wires and always plug the gray one in
first, then the black, I then throw the switch. When I am done, I throw
the switch, unplug the black and then the gray. Once 'bitten' twice shy!
Keep us posted.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 12:52 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 240vac charging from two 120 outlets?
Alright, so I remember someone posted a link to a box (I deleted the email)
that you would plug one end in to a 120 outlet then take the other around
until you find another circuit on the other tap so you get the two hot lines
for 240 volts.
So tomorrow I was planning on giving the Saturn a little run on the hopeful
future commute route to school. There is an EV charging station just blocks
away at a restaurant, the owner used to have a EV1. There are two
magnechargers there (can't use those) and two 20 amp 120 outlets. Now I know
it's not a guarantee that both will be separate hot's, but is there anything
I should be careful with if I were to go buy two outlets and have one wire
running from one side and the other running to the other with ground of
course on one of them. Next step would be to measure it with my meter to
make sure I do in fact have 240. Being able to charge at 20 amps 240 vs 120
at 20 would be much faster. I am just not 100% familiar with AC wiring, so I
wanted to make sure this would be ok. Anything I should look out for?
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 7:34 AM -0700 10/25/05, John Wayland wrote:
...It was a 12.245 @ 104.50 mph pass, that begins with the front end
off the ground and resulted in a fantastic 1.591 second 60 ft.
time.You can clearly hear the tires trying to get traction, and,
hear the series-to-parallel upshift and the accompanying faint tire
chirping as the torquey Siamese 8 electric motor has its way with
them.
That is one fantastic video!
What a beautiful launch!
Many kudos go out to you and Tim and everyone else who made it happen.
Near the 3.5 second mark of the video, is that where the S/P shift
happens? I only ask because it looks like there is a flash of light
under the car at that point and the abrupt ramp up of current could
be flashing the motor brushes. Maybe we do need a current ramp there.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Has anyone ever hooked three or and number of battery chargers in series to
get the required battery charging voltage. Does anyone have any objections
on this. The battery chargers are all isolated by the way.
Or is it better to just charge three 12 volt batteries in series.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correct me if I am wrong, but the specifications for batteries are given at
a specific temperature (I think 72 degrees F) and the rating drops
significantly as you go lower in temperature. Following the thought process
that a battery charges in the same manner that it discharges it would stand
to reason that in lower temperatures it would not charge completely. I
remember seeing a post a while back concerning battery heaters for colder
climates. I would think that you would need to heat the batteries during
the night during the charge cycle to make sure they are working efficiently.
If you plan to discharge them in cold climates you would also need to heat
the batteries to make sure they can transfer the amps efficiently.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michaela Merz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:05 PM
To: Mark Hastings
Cc: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Sudden drop in voltage
Mark:
Same thing happened to me yesterday. My 120 V S-10 was sitting happily
charged in the driveway (overnight temps in the low 40s), everything
looked fine (idle voltage around 129). I went driving (temps around 55-60)
and, after like 15 Miles my voltage went down to about 90 (under load),
108 without load. Usualy, at that point, the batteries should have about
1/2 charge remaining. I barely made it home and checked the car and
batteries, all ok. Today, before driving, I hooked the charger up and
topped the batteries. Worked better.
BTW. I am in South Texas and I will put the car in the garage overnight
from now on.
Michaela
> I have been driving my used S-15 conversion with new batteries for about 6
> months or so. The batteries have been well maintained. Water level is
> good, connections are tight, voltage is inline when I checked on the first
> of the month.
> On my way home last night which would be mile 20 or so of my daily driving
> I had just crossed over a highway onto the road into town when my voltage
> dropped from 120 to <90 on my 126 volt pack. I pulled over and checked and
> no loose connections or hot terminals. Everything looked ok.. If I drove
> at <50 amps then it was fine so after waiting a few minutes I limped the
> last could miles home keeping it above 120 and pulling over for everyone
> to pass.
> When I got home I turned my heater on to keep some load on the batteries
> and checked the voltages. One battery was at 5.8 volts and the rest were
> at 6.05 or so. Could a single reversed cell cause that huge of a voltage
> drop? It wasn't dry inside or hot to touch anywhere. Or because the
> weather has now dipped below 75 degrees did my short 22-24 mile commute
> suddenly become impossible with my 21 US2200s. When I had my emeter hooked
> up the commute would take around 60 amps.
> I hadn't even thought the texas winter could pose any problems after
> having EVs in connecticut buried in snow and still being able to make it.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I always put a Wh meter on my vehicle (portable on extension cord visible in
front of vehicle) and pay back quarterly so I'm not seen as the "company
problem child". If accounting doesn't have a mechanism for about $25
payback quarterly, then just buy the equivelent in office supplies, so when
another employee comes up and tells management they want "free fillups" too,
you can say with a straight face, your paying for your electricity. It's
worked for me for the last 20 years when charging at various work places.
Have a renewable energy day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' (long)
> Pool, Ryan wrote:
> > I've been told I can't charge at work because then my company would
> > be providing me a benefit that they wouldn't be providing anyone
> > else and that they wouldn't benefit from letting me charge.
>
> There are always a hundred reasons to say "no". Usually, it's just the
> easiest answer to give. The key is to find the right person to ask, and
> the right question to ask to which he/she will find "yes" to be the
> easiest answer.
>
> When I worked at Honeywell, they put on a presentation for "earth day"
> each year. They'd talk to the media about all the wonderful things the
> company did to save energy (replacing light bulb with fluorescents,
> encouraging employee carpooling, etc.). They'd plug their wonderful
> products that people should buy to save energy, (like setback
> thermostats, in Honeywell's case).
>
> So, I asked the Earthday coordinator if they would like me to show off
> my electric car. She said, "Yes, of course!" I said, "Then I need to use
> an AC outlet to charge it." So she arranged with the facilities people
> to let me use an outside outlet, conveniently located right near the
> doors. So on earth day, I showed off my EV, gave ride-n-drive demos, and
> even got a mention in the company newsletter.
>
> And when earth day was over, I *still* had permission to use that AC
> outlet. :-) No one was willing to risk going through the paperwork to
> change "company policy" when there was no benefit to them personally.
>
> When people would ask me how come I got a dedicated outlet (and a
> parking place near the door), I just said, "It's not reserved for me --
> anyone with an electric car can use it. Why don't you get one, too?"
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, folks. Been a while. I'm working on a Fiero conversion, which
will take QUITE a while, but the heater core is out, and I was going to
replace it with the electric one, but I'm planning to run a high
voltage (at least 240V, but probably closer to 288-300V). Randy at
CANEV says the highest rated core he has is rated for 240V. What are
some options to do the heater at this higher voltage?
Thanks, Dave Brandt
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From the list I understand that the biggest hurdle with ADC regen is arcing of
the brushes due to them being slightly "advanced" for street work.
My ADC motor has two pairs of brushes, presumably one set is more advanced than
the other and combined they create a slightly advanced magnetic field across the
armature with respect to the stator.
What if the more advanced pair were disconnected during regen? This would leave
the other pair to pick up the regen current and possibly reduce arcing.
Does anyone on the list have experience with this?
Rod Dilkes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We just used the car heater fan motor, and connected it to run at high speed
only.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "kluge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Walmart heater cores
> Are the fan motors really AC, or are they universal? If the latter, it
seems it would just be a matter of replacing the switches to run one of
> these on pack voltage...
>
> 1500 watt ceramic heater that can be found at
> >wallmart for $17. Anyone taken one apart and used it? (or 2 of them)
> >
>
> yes. Pretty much the same element, I think. I have "tested" one on
> my 72 volt Citi by ****disconnecting the AC fan****, jumpering the 72
volts to
> the plug on the cord and holding a muffin fan up to the back of the
> heater. It put out considerable heat, even on that low voltage.
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
