EV Digest 4861
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: charging door stuff - preventing cord dragging
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Drivetrain resistance (200A draw @ 30mph - is this normal)?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Radiator
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV article in Bay Guardian
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 48V cars
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 48V cars
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) plug-in hybrid, was Re: PFC-20 Running off Prius HV Pack
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: good name for at EV: hockey stick
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Permag fields
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED headlights ELX-6
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: high voltage heater option
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: good name for an EV: hockey stick
by Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Radiator
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Don't drive away with your cord dragging: was Daddy says don't
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Drag racing and the range issue
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Radiator
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: plug-in hybrid, was Re: PFC-20 Running off Prius HV Pack
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Trade for charging space at work
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: plugging in at work
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) IEEE battery monitoring standard
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LED headlights ELX-6
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Lawless Industries at East Coast Electric Expo
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV article in Bay Guardian, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVeryone again,
I stole a few minutes to get some of the fuel door pictures up on my
conversion site:
http://www.evsource.com/conversion/electronics/fuel_door/fuel_door.php
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm running a 1993 Daytona conversion, and have the suspicion that my
drivetrain is causing undue resistance. My drive ammeter shows a draw
of 150-200A at 30-35 mph (flat ground - good tire inflation/type). Is
this expected for compact car conversions in general. From my
research, I understand 75A is more in line with other's experiences.
Craig
A 120 volt system shouldn't demand 150-200 amps at 35 mph. That should
be the range for a heavier conversion at 60 mph. Alignment comes to
mind first. It can kill range by sapping horsepower (amps.) Worn
suspension part mean good alignment numbers are in fact poor alignment
(tires move suspension parts under loads.) My EV buggy has some issues
with this so I've tweaked some alignment numbers to neutralize the
effect. A good alignment shop can do a bit of this, but its not as easy
for a FWD car (tires pull forward under power, backwards when coasting
or braking.) Compensating for worn suspension parts is not as effective
as a tight suspension in reducing drag.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil Marino writes:
> So, this means that, for example, if you double the liquid
> coolant flow, the BTU/hour that the radiator dissipates to
> the air (and draws from the liquid coolant) stays essentially
> the same. But, now twice as much liquid passes through the
> radiator per hour. SO, twice as much coolant loses the
> same number of BTU's, and the temperature drop of the liquid
> is about half of what it was at the lower coolant flow rate.
>
> The faster the coolant rate, the hotter the coolant is as it
> exits the radiator. There is no free lunch.
But you can't double count your lunches either :-)
The temperature drop across the radiator will be halved, *but* the temperature
rise across the heat-sink will also be halved.
In the example listed, all else being equal faster flow will mean a higher exit
temp from the radiator *and* a lower exit temp from the heat-sink (when
compared to the lower flow situation). Net result is the same rate of heat
exchanged (in this simple example), but a lower delta T across the heat-sink
(and radiator).
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PFC chargers work over a wide range of frequencies. I would estimate the
frequency range as 20 to 200 Hz. Below 20 Hz, the 15 volt power supplies
have trouble with ripple when fed low voltages. Above 200 Hz, I would expect
the phase angle to shift causing the power factor to suffer.
We only test them at 60 Hz but we would love to hear how they work at other
frequencies.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
> The added advantage of usable single-phase 120 and 240 power also factors
> in, if such a trailer would be of use at events where perhaps multiple
> cars would be charging at the same time, along with other electrical
> items. With a 200lb 25kw generator head like the one at Northern Tool spun
> by a little 4cyl engine like the one I'm about to remove from the truck, I
> could keep 2 PFC50s going full bore. Then there is the possibility of
> installing a transfer switch at my house and using the trailer for backup
> when the power fails.
>
> Of course, a 200lb head and a 2 liter engine are going to make for a
> really heavy trailer; time will tell whether it works out or not. Beyond
> the weight, probably the biggest challenge will be governing the engine to
> maintain a steady RPM with varying load, which has been discussed here
> recently but which still confuses me...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes a barebones 72vdc system. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: EV article in Bay Guardian
>From the article which Lawrence mentions-
http://www.sfbg.com/40/04/x_biznews.html
Rhodes mostly converts old Rabbits, Geos, and other resurrected compact
cars at their owners' garages for around $3,000
Um... $3000 should buy a (120V+) motor and controller. Is that all you
need? No labor? No other parts?
This is misleading.
Maybe a short range, low speed, 48V or possibly a 72V system might be done
on a shoestring budget like this, but not a freeway capable vehicle. You
would be almost giving away your labor.
The rest of the article was great! Even mentions the EVDL :^D
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've read that in the early days many EV conversions
were much lower voltage than today. What's the main
reason the voltage has kept increasing? What motors
did a 48V car typicaly run? What would a Zilla do if
you fed it 40V at 6 or 7 hundred amps?
Thanks,
TiM
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many early EVs had aircraft starters that were designed to run on 28 volt
systems.
The voltage kept increasing to get better performance.
The Zilla would amplify the battery amps to make more motor amps (because it
is a buck converter). With the motor stalled, it could put 1000 or even 2000
amps on the motor if the impedance were low enough and the controller
software allowed it.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "TiM M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:46 PM
Subject: 48V cars
> I've read that in the early days many EV conversions
> were much lower voltage than today. What's the main
> reason the voltage has kept increasing? What motors
> did a 48V car typicaly run? What would a Zilla do if
> you fed it 40V at 6 or 7 hundred amps?
>
> Thanks,
>
> TiM
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am also interested in also going the other way. I have thought about how
best to do this and here is my plan:
I have a second (2006) Prius on order, (which seems to have been delayed
from November to late December, due to the high demand). Once that arrives,
I will easily, as agreed, be able to pry my 2005 Prius from my wife's hands
by giving her the new one. (She began driving the one we have this spring
when I started driving my electric Skodas again after winter storage, and I
now rarely get to drive it.) With both of us borrowing elsewhere to pay it
off, so as to get the Toyota finance loan on the new one, the 2005 will
really be mine legally. Then it will be no problem in that sense to do some
modifications.
I want to connect up EV mode and add a plug-in rechargeable battery pack of
say 96V to 102V nominal (Lithium ion preferrably, e.g. TS initially to test
with since it can be borrowed from the Skoda hatchback, then Valence Gr 24
100A-h). An efficient boost converter will step this up to about 210V,
diode connected to the original Prius pack, which stays in place and works
like usual. This boosted output can be set to the desired regulated
voltage, independent of the 96V pack state of charge. The added energy will
be available until depletion when the converter gets switched off at the set
depth of discharge. This added 210V energy source will support and work
with the NiMH pack for longer electric-only runs and more electric power
contribution on the highway. This method will be less "invasive" and risky
for a "tinkerer" or "hacker" like me to accomplish, compared other methods
that require removing the original battery pack and replacing it with a full
voltage pack. This replacement pack method, although excellent as it has
been done by Valence and Energy CS, requires either 1) the development of a
new battery management module to talk to (and tell lies about being fully
charged to) the Prius computer, or 2) waiting for the Valence and Energy CS
Prius conversion kits to be available, which might be a while for Canada.
(Later, when available, I would like to be involved in that program in
Canada.)
I will not try to, or need to, recharge the original NiMH pack. It can
just work like normal, but not work so hard, considering the added EV mode
distance and capability. It should be easy to have an Anderson or similar
96V pack disconnect, so as to be more acceptable and "standard" for
servicing the rest of the vehicle by Toyota, when arriving at the dealer
with it disconnected.
I am commissioning eCycle to develop the heart of an efficient boost
converter for this purpose (this winter). About 40 Amps output, from about
90A input, is what I have requested. I will have some programming to
contribute to get the desired features. Once tested and successful, I plan
to make this boost converter available to others who want to make this
relatively easy kind of plug-in hybrid.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: PFC-20 Running off Prius HV Pack
As far as getting access to the high voltage output, I
only added a pair of wires to the output side of the
battery pack. These terminals are after the
contactors and are accessible after removing quite a
bit of stuff that covers the battery pack. These
terminals are only energized when the Prius is "Ready"
mode.
I have a pdf copy of the dismantling manual. It took
a good hour of work to get to these terminals. Toyota
really do not want us to temper with them.
Besides this, I also have a 1200W 12Vdc-120Vac
inverter wired to the 12V battery, the EV Mode button
installed, trailer hitch receiver, LED dome lights,
and added an AUX input to the JBL amp.
Ed Ang
AIR Lab Corp.
--- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Very cool! Did you "just" add a HV connection point
to a stock Prius, or
have you made any other modifications?
Edward Ang wrote
> ... I took the oppotunity to test recharging it
> with the HV connection I added to our 2004 Prius.
> ... The Prius HV pack is 210V-230V DC ...
> I was able to recharge at 18A max from the Prius.
The
> Sparrow was at about 170V. So, this is over 3kW!
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jimmy Argon wrote:
Victor - you are right, but we should stay one step
ahead with a solar system, wind or methanol fuel
cells.
Once I am off the grid, using my cars as storage, they
won't catch me!
Except that the price policy for methanol fuel most
likely will follow the gasoline. Besides not everyone has
weather with near 100% of sunny or windy enough days.
So those others are stuck and must buy power whatever available.
And, power/fuel producing companies sure will take advantage
of the situation to make sure you keep being stuck for as long
as possible (just like EV manufacturing itself).
Remember recent California energy crisis? The price per kWh
was shamelessly jacked up because people were stuck and had no
choice other than pay - usual patten for shortage of *anything*
- the supplier always takes advantage of the situation to his
favor calling it just business. Why do you expect it to be any
different for methanol (or any for that matter) fuel?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:31 PM 26/10/05 -0700, Jim Husted wrote:
Hey James
Carefully heat the outside of the housing behind each magnet with a
tourch. If all goes well they should pop off with little breakage as the
epoxy heats and gets soft. I've had to remove many a magnet. You are
taking a chance that they will break. Before you start, take a metal rod
and a cheap compass and check the polarities.
Hi Jim
Aah, there lies the problem - I believe that they have put them back in
incorrectly, so I don't know what they should be - although I can pull
apart the other motor if need be (they brought in the whole wheelchair) to
see what that has.
The fact that they the test magnet 'flips' between the two adjacent magnets
on each field and the high current draw makes me think that each pole pair
has been put in:
S==N
N==S
Cancelling out most of the field strength.
Sounds about right?
Thanks
James
Hey, an electric wheelchair is an EV - so this is on topic - just ;^)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
I think that most low cost single phase 120/240V AC generators run at as
constant engine rpm/governed speed as possible to get 60 Hz. line frequency
(or 50Hz. where applicable) For 60 Hz., that would be 3600 rpm for the
small engines and 1800 rpm using Diesels or larger gasoline engines (and
double the poles on the generator head). Voltage regulation is done by
varying the current applied to the field winding. Electronic inverter
generators are another matter, as engine rpm can be reduced at lower loads
since these generators first produce DC efficiently in a manner similar to
my eCycle BLDC units. Then they generate a clean AC waveform of the correct
frequency and voltage using electronics (sine-wave inverter).
My eCycle permanent magnet BLDC generators have a convenient characteristic
that the rpm can be set (using the governor on the industrial engines) for
maximum desired voltage at light load (charged battery pack, not driving)
and then with a discharged battery pack, or when driving, the expected and
needed higher current will be produced at the lower voltage existing. An
electronic regulator is not required in my experience.
When using a car or truck engine, you don't have this built-in engine rpm
governor feature. Perhaps in this case, a cruise control kit (or parts from
a scrapyard for a similar model so-equipped) could do the job of keeping the
rpm in a narrow range?
For many loads, like the PFC chargers, the frequency is probably not that
critical, and stable voltage and avoiding damaging spikes/transients would
be more important/critical/deadly if not controlled.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
I recall the conversation, and still have the emails :o) ...
As often happens for me, lots of things have changed since then; I've
started on my conversion project, which I wasn't planning on at the time.
Funds for developing something like that have been redirected, and so now
I'm thinking about the cheapest option that would get me power to go, even
if that turns out to be heavier and less efficient than your setup. The
engine from the truck isn't the best bet by far, but it's free.
The added advantage of usable single-phase 120 and 240 power also factors
in, if such a trailer would be of use at events where perhaps multiple
cars would be charging at the same time, along with other electrical
items. With a 200lb 25kw generator head like the one at Northern Tool spun
by a little 4cyl engine like the one I'm about to remove from the truck, I
could keep 2 PFC50s going full bore. Then there is the possibility of
installing a transfer switch at my house and using the trailer for backup
when the power fails.
Of course, a 200lb head and a 2 liter engine are going to make for a
really heavy trailer; time will tell whether it works out or not. Beyond
the weight, probably the biggest challenge will be governing the engine to
maintain a steady RPM with varying load, which has been discussed here
recently but which still confuses me...
--chris
Doug Hartley said:
Chris,
As we were discussing some months ago, I built a 13KW generator for my
mini
pickup using a Honda GX670 V-twin, eCycle BLDC unit and 3-phase bridge.
It
weighs only about 150 pounds, fits in a space 21" x 21" x 19" high, in a
former battery box area under the back of the pickup. I turn a key
switch
on the dash to start it when needed for longer trips and highway driving.
It is very convenient and I used it several times this year.
Best Regards,
Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Low beams are something like 1000-1200 lumens each, on 55W. A HID puts
out 3200 lumens on 35W. I believe the 35W is power to the tube and does
not include ballast losses.
But please don't rule out the LED headlight idea alltogether. The
bottom line from an engineering standpoint is it's not worth it, but,
from a publicity standpoint it could be gold. I can already bet people
would be checking out the headlights and start fantasizing about EVs
long before they take a look at the battery bay and motor.
I got a single HID on eBay for $65. I need a projector housing though.
Due to the difficulty of getting the proper ballast, lamps, projectors,
and all the interconnecting plugs matched up into pair of lights, parts
alone end up going for relatively cheap.
OT: Incidentally, there are 2 classes of battery powered HIDs out there,
the 35W car tubes and then a bunch of much smaller 10W/13W tubes
primarily intended for bikers, cavers, SCUBA divers, etc. The little
ones may not have the lumens per watt efficiency of the 35W models but
they DO put out a huge amount of light nonetheless. I'm not sure if the
10W are different devices from the 13W or they're just measuring them
differently- maybe one uses tube power alone and the other is total
power off the battery which includes ballast losses? I saw mentions of
675 lumens mentioned for a 13W and 900 lumens for a 10W, which is
backwards, perhaps someone's product is better or perhaps someone is
fudging their numbers here. But it does make a GREAT light except I
heard some bikers banned them due to their ability to blind everyone
else in the group and especially oncoming traffic. They heads
themselves I've seen for as low as $109 I think, with the ballast
enclosed in it. Usually sold with a battery and charger which puts it
up in the $200 range on eBay.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1393
<http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1393>
Danny
Ricky Suiter wrote:
Glad you pointed that out. The stated 432 lumens won't be enough for a car. While it would make an awsome flashlight, for your car there are better options. At 22 watts you get just under 20 lumens a watt. Real HID's are 3,200 lumens from 35 watts. Do the math these give over 91 lumens a watt. While it's technically a grey area to install them in a not oem application, as long as you take measures to avoid glare by putting the gas discharge pocket in the right place in the housing and have the proper glare shields, I haven't had any issues with law enforcement. Mine are deffinitely much much less annoying than the ones in every Escalade. I have them in my Insight, which gets much more night time driving use.
Consider, a set of HID bulbs and ballasts will run you about $300 on eBay.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi EVeryone,
Victor wrote:
How long does it take when using this unit for hot air to begin flowing
on a really cold morning?
About 3 min. I do realize people will brag about 3 seconds for
their ceramic heaters. I'm sure they won't die if waiting 3 minutes.
After all any ICE heating system takes more than that. How often do you
hear complaints about that.
It's sure nice to have as short time as possible, but it is not
acceptable (to me) to jeopardize safety for few more dollars.
Also not worth to reap apart the dash. People accept this of course
to save money, and this is fine - everyone makes choices according
to their priorities.
I love my ceramic heater element, but after
the first time my safety system was circumvented and the cabin of my EV
stunk of burnt plastic, I decided your type of system might be worth the
few hundred bones.
Funny you considered alternative only after something happen *to you*.
Before that you probably thought this is stupid idea. Also normal human
nature :-)
That should be a good warning to all installing ceramic elements - have
a really good method, with redundancy built in, to prevent the elements
from being on when the fan is not on. The instance where mine got left
on without the blower going was really a freak accident. But I've
learned you have to design for the un-expected. Had I had a redundant
system, I wouldn't have had any problem (it turned out to not be a big
deal - the smell went away in a couple of days - thank goodness the
ceramic elements do a pretty good job of self-limiting themselves).
-Ryan
Wonder why no OEM is even considering something like that. 10x (or more)
cheaper! Who can resist?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sorry about the political stuff. I've been pointed to the charter which
I was unaware of.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Think about how energy is measured. The power to raise a specific amount of
water by one degree. I pump at 1 gpm, in one minute I move 1 gallon through
my system and drop it by 60 degrees. Turn up the pump to 6 gpm and only drop
the temperature by 10 degrees…. But I've done that to 6 times as much water.
Same thing.
Now, there can be some smaller differences in efficiency, especially as I'm
dumping high heat into the surrounding atmosphere (because in Phoenix we had
120 degree ambient temps) and there could be some (small) efficiencies with
slower velocities leaving the fluid in contact longer, or heat created by
the act of raising the pressure by pumping it…. Makes my head spin!
Still, remember that higher flow rate means more water, so keep that in mind
as you do your tests.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [HYPERLINK
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Radiator
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Marino<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Radiator
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Radiator
>Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:00:48 EDT
>
>In a message dated 10/26/2005 6:30:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>writes:
>
><< This should hold true pumping hot water threw a radiator, if you pump
>it
>too fast threw the radiator, it does not stay in long enough for the
water
>to
>cool down. >>
>
>That is an old wives tale.
>Faster liquid flow transfers more heat.
>(must be my turn to be brusque and borderline inconsiderate..)
>
>Ben
>
The old wives were right.
Here's why:
The heat that a radiator can lose to the air is predominantly determined
by
the air-to-radiator interface, not the liquid-to-radiator interface, as
long
as you have above a minimum efficient coolant flow. So, the rate of heat
loss ( BTU/hour) of a given radiator is pretty much constant for a given
coolant-air temperature difference, and a given air flow through the
radiator. It doesn't depend on the coolant flow rate.
So, this means that, for example, if you double the liquid coolant flow,
the BTU/hour that the radiator dissipates to the air (and draws from the
liquid coolant) stays essentially the same. But, now twice as much liquid
passes through the radiator per hour. SO, twice as much coolant loses the
same number of BTU's, and the temperature drop of the liquid is about half
of what it was at the lower coolant flow rate.
The faster the coolant rate, the hotter the coolant is as it exits the
radiator. There is no free lunch.
This is what I meant, The faster the coolant rate, the hotter the coolant
is as it exits the radiator. Therefore if it's at a slower rated than it
must exit at a cooler rate. Roland
Phil
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for the delay in replying, as I have not seen all of today's emails
yet, and did not read them in order.
The pickup's eCycle BLDC unit cost me $3000 as a custom one-off. The
standard and a little less powerful (10-12kw) double stack MGL2 series
(liquid cooled) would be about $1700. For the engine, you can check with
your local dealer or I could supply Robin-Subaru engines at good pricing as
a dealer/OEM from the Montreal master distributor. Or build a complete
generator to order. I have some pictures I can email to you (no web site
yet).
The wiring is dead-easy: 3 wires from the MG2 to the 3-phase bridge
inputs, it doesn't matter which wire goes on which terminal. Then connect
the bridge + and - outputs through a shunt (to measure charging current) and
a circuit breaker to the battery pack. I can help you with remote
mounting/wiring the engine key switch.. But essentially, just observe/copy
/extend the wiring, referring to the diagram in the engine user's manual.
I used standard small engine control replacement cables for remote
operation of choke and governor speed.
This generator provides 20 to 150A at 80 to 115V, suited to my 26 TS cells
pack voltage. Various models/windings of eCycle units are available to
match different pack voltages. For example, MG2-36 for a 96V pack, MG2-48,
for a 120V or 132V pack.....
It is 2:45 AM here so I will leave it at that for now and get some sleep
before work tomorrow!
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
That sounds great Doug. If you don't mind, what did it cost? Do you have
pictures? Do you have a schematic to share? What is it's output in
voltage and amps? Thanks for any info or can you direct us to the thread.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
Chris,
As we were discussing some months ago, I built a 13KW generator for my
mini pickup using a Honda GX670 V-twin, eCycle BLDC unit and 3-phase
bridge. It weighs only about 150 pounds, fits in a space 21" x 21" x 19"
high, in a former battery box area under the back of the pickup. I turn
a key switch on the dash to start it when needed for longer trips and
highway driving. It is very convenient and I used it several times this
year.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: The 'range issue' Drag/street S10
I will be very interested to see pics/details of your generator when
you're done with it. I'm doing a similar conversion, a '99 S-10 (Isuzu
Hombre badge) with 29 Orbitals in series, in the current plan. I'm
keeping the little 4cyl engine and emissions components with the idea of
mounting it on a custom trailer with a generator head, with a result
which
I admit may turn out to be untowable. :o) I'm shooting for around
500-600lbs, minus trailer. If I go with Orbitals my truck will be much
heavier than yours, so I'll need to make the trailer as light as
possible.
If I could afford of those 100lb 65HP Aerotwin engines, I imagine I
could
have a 20kw generator at under 350lbs.
Beyond just range extension, the idea includes having portable power
generation for when we (AustinEV) do events. This year at the Roundup we
offered ride-and-drive, and the difference that makes can't be
overstated.
Between listening to us jabber and actually riding in an EV, the
difference is between "that's ...interesting" and "Wow."
--chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Snip
I will have a 12kw generator/welder with a kabota diesel
Its wt.780lbs without trailer.
Dennis Berube
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Why not just install an avcon style connection and wire a relay/contactor to
disconnect motor feed?
A little on the expensive side but you couldn't drive off.
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:12 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: Don't drive away with your cord dragging: was Daddy says don't
This can be an extremely dangerous situation. Lets say you used the AC
current and a relay to turn off your EV while charging. What if you use a
timer to shut off your charger. You can still start and drive while plugged
in. I think a switch of some sort on the door is best. Then no can drive
at all unless the door is closed. That is the way my Electravan is now.
Switch on the door. Door must be shut tight. Lawrence Rhodes...
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Albright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: Drag racing and the range issue
I'm not an organizer type of person. However I believe
that if the motivation of racing were applied to the
range issue we would begin to see more excitement and
innovation in this area. I know some people are
already working very hard to do this. But there is
nothing like an upcoming race to focus the mind and
make things happen.
Here in florida about 8 years ago there was somthing called the " sunday
challange " It was in coco beach and there was a 76 mile course that ended
in dissneeland , . It was kind of set up like a road rally , you had 3
hours to drive the distance , lots of different classes , . I had to be
talked into the first but after that I was totaly hooked , and looked
forward to it each year . I got to be in 3 before they lost funding , .
steve clunn
Who wants to be the first EV to finish the BAJA 1000?
Anyone?
Way more than my 2 cents worth.
Ken
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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I can speak from experience on that point. My JEEP Cherokee, with a 160
thermostat, ran 210 pulling my boat. When I switched to a 190 thermostat
the engine ran 190 max 195. Giving the radiator time to cool the water
enabled the engine to manage its heat more effeciently.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Radiator
In a message dated 10/26/2005 6:30:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
writes:
<< This should hold true pumping hot water threw a radiator, if you pump it
too fast threw the radiator, it does not stay in long enough for the water
to
cool down. >>
That is an old wives tale.
Faster liquid flow transfers more heat.
(must be my turn to be brusque and borderline inconsiderate..)
Ben
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Hartley
Sent: Thursday, 27 October 2005 3:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: plug-in hybrid, was Re: PFC-20 Running off Prius HV Pack
I am also interested in also going the other way. I have thought about
how
best to do this and here is my plan:
> details cut
How do you fool the EMS when you add an external power source Doug?
David
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Also another possibility if you can't charge at work, is to check the
business & homes nearby, if someone would let you charge while at work & pay
them back with your attached Wh meter X2 to be nice.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: Trade for charging space at work
> I was thinking (before the prospect of impending sale) of offering to
> build a shaded parking for 4 stalls, in which one would be mine.
> Ideally, The roof of this would slowly be covered with solar panels. In
> fresno shade goes farthur than beer. :)
>
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Almost all buildings have gardeners outlets around them. Find one & ask the
facilities/maintenence manager about plugging in. Normally a "special"
outlet is not required. I found one behind the maintenance shed. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: plugging in at work
> Hi EVeryone,
>
> Lynn wrote:
>
> >Ok, this thread is getting very interesting. Perhaps if we put together
> >all of our ideas on how get permission (from cooperative or
> >non-cooperative employers) we could increase the availability of
> >charging locations.
> >
> Those were really good ideas on how to get your employer to consider
> giving you a charging spot. I confronted the deputy director at place
> of employment (my "day" job :) ), and he said he'd take the idea into a
> weekly staff meeting. It was decided that a parking spot with a plug
> would be provided.
>
> I didn't make as elaborate of a presentation as what Lynn suggested, but
> I think that would be wise. Once a supervisor has said "no", it makes
> it hard to appeal. Be sure to mention that you realize it is an
> "electric vehicle" parking spot only, not your own personal private spot
> even when or if you don't drive the electric.
>
> -Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
--- End Message ---
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http://powerelectronics.com/news/standard-battery-monitoring/
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--- Begin Message ---
Food for thought.
HID may be ideal for EV's, most of the circuitry is to boost the 12V up
to 190V (Plus a couple thousand start voltage circuit)
the "box" should be smaller on an EV fed from pack
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Hi All,
I stopped at the Valley Forge Convention Center last night on my way home
from work to see Shawn Lawless at the Electric Expo. He had his Orange
Juice dragster and the Zero electric ZTR mower there.
I am mightily impressed.
Shawn is a sharp, articulate guy who obviously enjoys what he's doing. I
got a tour of Orange Juice with its 12(!) Lemco motors, 3 coupled directly
to each of 4 slick-shod go cart wheels. It looks a bit strange at first.
But then a few seconds of thought reveals this is a great way to get lots of
rubber on the road at a favorable drive ratio with *zero* transmission
losses. A clever bit of outside-the-box thinking.
The Zero was pretty tasty too. (Well to me anyway, since I'm an Elec-Trak
owner.) It's a proof-of-concept prototype, not presently packaged for
retail sale. It's a little clunky-looking without nicely styled plastic
bodywork and its waterproof electrics boxes exposed for all to see. That's
OK. Frankly I'd much prefer this over what Toro, John Deere or whoever
creates as a production version.
Shawn obviously takes the concept of robust design very seriously. This
thing would last 20 years in daily use. It's very ruggedly built without
being overly bulky. (In fact the mower deck, one of the parts Shawn didn't
create, looks positively flimsy compared to the rest of the machine.)
Everything is accessible for easy maintenance. All the correct safeties and
interlocks are in place. It even includes a high power inverter to run 120V
tools, variable blade speed control and probably other features I'm not
aware of. All in all, quite a class act.
We talked about the business side of this a little, but I'd rather not go
into that here. Shawn will certainly answer any questions when he returns
from the show. Let it suffice to say that the Zero is competitive with
other environmentally-friendly mowers, and the industry has unquestionably
taken notice.
Shawn also makes parade floats and other industrial vehicles, apparently
with the same impressive quality and workmanship I saw yesterday. It looks
like he'll be around for quite some time - which can only be good for EVs.
Chris
P.S. I'm currently unable to post or receive mail from the ET list (ISP
issues). Feel free to post this there. I'm happy to continue discussion of
the Zero, but I'll have to do it through an intermediary.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: EV article in Bay Guardian
> Yes a barebones 72vdc system. LR..........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: EV article in Bay Guardian
>
>
> > >From the article which Lawrence mentions-
> > http://www.sfbg.com/40/04/x_biznews.html
> >
> >>Rhodes mostly converts old Rabbits, Geos, and other resurrected compact
> >>cars at their owners' garages for around $3,000
> >
> > Um... $3000 should buy a (120V+) motor and controller. Is that all you
> > need? No labor? No other parts?
> >
> > This is misleading.
> > Hi Roy an' All;
All things considered, a decent article . Is the Guardian a " Mainstram"
paper or a Free type at the news boxes? Not dissing those sort of papers,
here it's the New Haven Advocate. They are outside the loop of the standard
papers. Have read the alternative Advocate for years. The reporter maybe got
his figures crossed? If you were a darn good scrounger, you could come in
at about 3 k I did with my Rabbit in my bad old married daze. HAD the
homeade controller, got the motor on line, 900 bux, used batteries @ 400, a
Fair Radio charger39bux and or a Bad Boy. Later upgraded to a Raptur and
Sevcon DC to dc, a PFC 30.The Labor took time between the " Honey Do" stuff,
a few months .The Rabbit, it was given to me by a friend that had TWO, one
clean body broken engine another with a ratty body and a strong Diseasel
engine. Busy weakend made one good car, drove it til the Diseasel wore out
and converted. When you add a quart or two of oil and check the fuel once a
weak, sorta thing.Time to convert! Other Rabbits entered my life, too,
looking for the cleanest one to convert. Out on the Left Coast Rabbits ,
clean ones,are STILL available for cheap prices......they tell me?
Ya need to get on friendly terms with you're local junkie, I meam JUNK
yard. The DC motors from dead forklifts go for by weight, say 20 bux.
Batteries. Yur local battery distributer, wherehouse. He may be interested
in yur project sell ya decent used or blems, dinged up batteries that he
can't really sell as "New". Got good at soldering the busted posts back
on<g>!Gees! We have the EV trading post for parts, or right here, the List.
> > Maybe a short range, low speed, 48V or possibly a 72V system might be
done
> > on a shoestring budget like this, but not a freeway capable vehicle. You
> > would be almost giving away your labor.
> >Well, we all " Give" away our labor, those that do the EV thing. Or it is
the satisfaction of helping a friend get the EV Grin thing. As long as you
can DO something, get a friend's car up an' going THAT'S my payback. After
all were all family here<g>!
> > The rest of the article was great! Even mentions the EVDL :^D
> >YEAH! That we are HERE, that will help a few newbees. I see alota new
smiling faces on here all the time.
To you folks WELCOME ABOARD!! 'Cuse me for shouting, but ya catch my
drift? We have alota fun, come to the Races, see what I mean .EVen some good
ideas so you don't hafta re-invent the wheel, motor or battery.
Us old timers, say going back 35-40 years. GAD! THAT dates me, started out
with lo-voltage systems because that was what was out there. Surplus
Aircraft stuff, forktrucks, whereEVER stuff could be found. I saw a
conversion 35 years ago where the guy used a elevator motor,Generous
Electric, it was damn near as heavy as the car! An Auston, I think it was?
Had a load of 12 volt batteries in it. He was happy with a 5 mile range and
could regen down the hill to the Trolley Museum, where I was getting my EV
grin@ 600 volts or so<g>!Was a 120 volt shunt motor.Not practical, but it
was fun.Only other guy in CT at that time was Jack Gretta with a Henny
Kilowatt in the Chester, Old Saybrook area.He soldiered on for YEARS,
quietly doing the EV thing,pretty much alone, as well as building his own
airplanes and a avid Ham Radio operater. Funny how many OTHER EVers are
Pilots and Ham guyz!Our Chapter of the EAA Meets at Jack's now Second Sat of
each month.
Seeya
Bob
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