EV Digest 4880
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ka Bamm!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Columbia Par Car/Sep-ex vs. series
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ka Bamm!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Zombie Data
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: No Trasmission?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: No Trasmission?
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Ka Bamm!
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by Chris Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Honda FCX goes for a test drive
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Honda FCX goes for a test drive
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by Chris Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: It's an Electric Thing, you wouldn't understand....
by "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by Chris Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Honda FCX goes for a test drive
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Honda FCX goes for a test drive
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by Chris Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Honda FCX goes for a test drive
by "gail donaldson lucas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Low HP brushless motors
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Low HP brushless motors
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) 98 Solectria Force Electric Vehicle runs good Roch N.Y. Item number:
458704554
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeff
Contact me off list so I can quote you a rewind price. I'd wind that alot
cheaper than a new motor and about 1/2 the cost of a new armature, which I can
get if you prefer. And I have good rates through trucking outfits.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
My warp 9 just exploded the comm. totally obliterated. :-(
This is over rpm damage the potbox stuck a little during the shift but
that was enough. I was warned to put a better spring on it, I was warned
to put a speed sensor on it and I was gonna get to it. That last 7
batteries upping the voltage to 288 from 204 didn't help.
I walked back and pick up a few of the comm bars from the street and
they are absolutly pathetic!
Am I wrong to ask who in their right mind would span an inch with 3/16
cross section copper?
It will be a bit before I can pull it out but I wanted to ask what is
the best thing to do to fix this.
I will put a speed sensor on it this time but is there a better comm
for it?
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Parcar had a plus 100 mile range golfcart using ETEK's Now they switched to
sep-ex.
What are the advantages of these systems? I've seen some Sep-ex controllers
on Ebay. What kind of motor do you need to go with that system? Below an
article on the Parcar trip from Phoenix to Prescott. 100 miles.
Columbia ParCar recently drove a couple of electric vehicles on an old
stagecoach road from Prescott To Phoenix, AZ. They made the journey to raise
funds for a local children's hospital, and also to increase awareness for
alternatively fueled vehicles.
From:
http://www.parcar.com/az.htm
Columbia Proves its Pioneering Capability in the Electric Vehicle Market!
The sun was still blazing this past October 15th when two Columbia vehicles,
with solar-assist arrived in Phoenix, AZ October. The 100 mile journey began
earlier that morning just outside the courthouse in Prescott, AZ.
Determined to prove the veracity of its cutting edge power system, Columbia
selected its ScoutT and ShuttleT models with standard power systems which
were augmented by solar panels and additional battery capacity. At the
conclusion of the event there was still plenty of energy to spare. Kellen
Chicoine, Columbia's Engineering Manager, responsible for technological
advances, reported that, "even without range-enhancing equipment, each
vehicle could have easily completed at least 60 of those miles. This is
especially significant because the route included numerous encounters with
substantial grades and uneven surfaces."
The "Spirit of Prescott," a historic stagecoach trail from Prescott to
Phoenix served as a fitting challenge for the event. Columbia has long been
considered a Pioneer in electric vehicle technology, constantly striving to
increase range and efficiency. A recent switch of its entire electric
product line from traditional series powered motors to separately motors
serves as a perfect example of Columbia's desire to lead the way in the
industries they serve.
Arizona Ranch and Resort Cars, Columbia's Authorized Dealer in Prescott, is,
itself a Pioneer. While solar power is not new, its unique integration in
low speed vehicles is. Arizona Ranch and Resort Cars, has developed
techniques for connecting solar panels to Columbia's power system to charge
the vehicles even as they are in motion. Many customers have already
purchased solar powered vehicles from Arizona Ranch and Resort Cars and are
using them to great success.
In addition to the technological significance of the event, the Phoenix
Children's Hospital will benefit from dollars pledged for each mile reached,
as well as numerous donations. Ms. Lisa Glow, Director of the Governor's
Napolitano's Office of Children, as well as a representative from the
Phoenix Children's Hospital were present at the finish line to accept the
donations presented to them by Tom Lederle.
For Columbia vehicle pricing information or the location of your nearest
Columbia Dealer, you may visit
http://www.parcar.com or contact Columbia ParCar Corp. by phone at (800)
222-4653 or e-mail:
info@ parcar.com
For more information on solar powered Columbia vehicles,
please visit http://www.solarfreedom.com
tomlederle@ att.net or
contact Tom Lederle of
Arizona Ranch & Resort Cars
6616 E. 2nd Street, Suite D
Prescott Valley, AZ 86314
928-775-8178
Greg Breckley
Marketing Manager
Columbia Parcar Corp.
608-524-8888 x.6250
gbreckley@ parcar.com
Columbia® ParCar® Corp.
1115 Commercial Ave.
Reedsburg, WI 53959 USA
800-222-4653
608-524-8888 Fax 608-524-8380
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy, I was curious what your cost per mile is replacing the batts every
10k miles + electricity in wHrs per mile?
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
> Hello Justin,
>
> Here is a Phone No. to Trojan where you can find shipment info and where
to purchase them in large wholesale lots. I had them deliver there batteries
right off the truck to my place if you buy in pallet loads. 1-800-423-6569
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Justin Southam<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:35 AM
> Subject: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
>
>
> Hi All, I've been asked to ask if anyone here has good contacts for
buying
> Trojan batteries in or around Compton Ca. The requester has contacts in
> Compton who periodically send shipping containers to New Zealand. He is
> hoping to import them directly from the US as anything but the locally
> manufactured SLI batteries are very expensive here. IE Optima or Orbital
> $400ea, generic GC $200+ea. Contacts for USBattery would be good too. I
> recall seeing info before but never saved it as i didnt expect to have a
> use for it. Thanks in advance.
>
> Justin
> Wellington
> New Zealand
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28-10-05
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Jeff Schanab wrote:
My warp 9 just exploded the comm. totally obliterated. :-(
Sorry to hear about your mishap.
Tom Shay wrote:
An exploded commutator is a sight to behold.
Yes, it is! One only has to walk through Father Time's electric motor
boneyard section of his small backyard EV shop...the man's done things
to electric motors no normal person could ever do!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For that matter, can the DC/DC be always on, provided the output is
unloaded or very lightly loaded?
This is normally how a DC to DC converter is used. Many EVs have the DC to
DC on all the time. My EV Buggy does not even have a 12v accessory battery.
Why is it usually set up that way in an EV ? In ICE cars, the 12V battery
is not charged all the time - only when the car is running. And, there is
no problem with that. I don't plan on any all-the-time loads on the 12V
system in my EV ( except the radio memory - very low current).
Having the DC-DC on all the time would also subject it to noise - and,
perhaps, overvoltage- while charging the main pack, and also continually
drain the main pack. And, it's something that can fail when the car is
unattended.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Everyone (esp John)
Thanks John for your detailed reply.. Much appreciated!
One question though, you said that you have a 4:57 ratio, do you use a
torque converter or differential? If so, what about those ratio's? I mean,
is the 4:57 your motor to drivetrain ratio, or final ratio to the wheel?
Cheers
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Strubhar wrote:
Hi, Rodney - when you post to this list, can you turn off the auto-response
on your e-mail? If you don't want to, that's OK, I can deal with it; it's
just irritating!
I agree.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry guys
I turned it off a little while ago.. You may have noticed it wasn't active
on my last couple of posts..
Sorry for the hassle
:-)
Keep smiling though!
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:44 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: No Trasmission?
Joe Strubhar wrote:
> Hi, Rodney - when you post to this list, can you turn off the
> auto-response on your e-mail? If you don't want to, that's OK, I can
> deal with it; it's just irritating!
>
I agree.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
I normally do not replace the batteries every 10K miles, which would be 5 years
for me. The last set of batteries, I bought was in 1990 and replacement them
in 2000 which is 10 years.
My normal driving is all city driving with a average speed of 15 mph and a
maximum city speed of 30 mph. I do about ten half mile runs per day or about 5
miles a day.
The batteries I bought in 1990, were 30 each Exide 235 AH 6 volts. They cost
me $35.00 from a factory distributor, which would be $1050.00 for the pack.
Driving about 5 miles a day for ten years is about 18,250 miles.
$1050.00 / 18,250 = $0.057 for the battery cost per mile.
Electricity cost back then was $0.035 per KW. Today its is $0.06 so the
average cost would be about $0.045 per KW.
I charge 9600 watts per 20 miles or .480 KW per mile.
$0.045 x .480 = $0.0216 for the electricity cost per mile
Therefore: $0.057 + $0.0216 = $0.078 per mile.
Cost of gasoline back in 1990 was $1.00 a gal and today its down to $2.28 which
I get 10% off on my gasoline card Discover Card, which would make it $2.06 per
gallon.
The average cost from 1990 to now is about $1.53
Therefore: $1.53/$0.078 = 19.6 mpg equal to gasoline.
If you take the cost of electricity only, then $1.53/$0.0216 = 70.8 mpg.
Today, my batteries are going on 4 years and they should last to 2010 or more.
These are Trojans T-145's 260 AH. 30 of these cost me $78.00 each which is
$2340.00. At 20,000 miles this would be about $0.11 per mile.
The cost of electricity is now $0.06 per KW it will go down in the future,
because we are going to buy the electrical distribution and install generation
plants.
So for now, keeping it at $0.06 per KW or $0.028 per mile, the estimate for the
next ten years would be:
$0.11 + $0.028 = $0.138 per mile for electricity and batteries.
For electricity alone it would be $0.028 per mile is equal to $2.06 per gal./
$0.028 = 73.5 mpg.
Normally if you can get 5 to 10 years out of a battery pack, you could take
this as the cost of the car. People normally may buy a new car every 5 years
or In my case, I will do a complete overhaul of my cars in that time span,
which cost way over the cost of battery packs.
If you took the cost all the cars you have bought in your life time, plus the
cost of maintenance and upgrades, a person could have bought a $250,000.00 car
or home with that money.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
Howdy, I was curious what your cost per mile is replacing the batts every
10k miles + electricity in wHrs per mile?
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
> Hello Justin,
>
> Here is a Phone No. to Trojan where you can find shipment info and where
to purchase them in large wholesale lots. I had them deliver there batteries
right off the truck to my place if you buy in pallet loads. 1-800-423-6569
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Justin Southam<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:35 AM
> Subject: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
>
>
> Hi All, I've been asked to ask if anyone here has good contacts for
buying
> Trojan batteries in or around Compton Ca. The requester has contacts in
> Compton who periodically send shipping containers to New Zealand. He is
> hoping to import them directly from the US as anything but the locally
> manufactured SLI batteries are very expensive here. IE Optima or Orbital
> $400ea, generic GC $200+ea. Contacts for USBattery would be good too. I
> recall seeing info before but never saved it as i didnt expect to have a
> use for it. Thanks in advance.
>
> Justin
> Wellington
> New Zealand
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28-10-05
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You'll find this list is a great resource, you might want to post
what size and kind of motor and ask if it'll do what you want.
The motor-to-tranny adapter I'm making sounds similar to yours. Steve
Clunn of http://www.grassrootsev.com has some great videos for
backyard (literally!) adapter fabrication. Here are some random
thoughts:
Steve clamps everything together, then taps his tranny with the motor
running, regularly pushing in the clutch, until it is quiet as
possible. Now it is lined up, so the holes are drilled perfectly
aligned.
In my case I'm lucky, the electric motor is centered by a centering
ring (I checked it is concentric with the motor shaft). The tranny is
centered by a centering ridge. I'm going to make my adapter to coarse
specs, then bolt it to a rotary table and mill the two centering ring
fits -- that will guarantee they are concentric to within a couple
thousands of an inch.
I think centering the flywheel is more critical and trickier. I
calculated even 7 thousandths of an inch off center could lead to 100
lbs of dynamic imbalance! I like how Steve machines the flywheel
taperlock hub right on the motor shaft -- that guarantees it is
concentric with the motor axis of rotation. The taperlock hub I
bought from http://www.electroauto.com , it is a well designed
beautiful piece of machining. A lightweight, or lightened, flywheel
makes vibration less likely to happen.
--- Chris Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ... Currently I'm trying to weld a custom
> mount to mate a standard manual transmission to a surplus electric
> motor. ...
>
> My idea was to make two pieces, one attached to the motor(bracket)
> and the other
> to the transmission(1/4 inch steel plate). They would be bolted
> together through
> oversize holes, so as long as I get it close, there will be some
> tweaking room.
> Maybe not the best idea, but it's what I've come up with so far.
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 3, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
Why is it usually set up that way in an EV ? In ICE cars, the 12V
battery is not charged all the time - only when the car is running.
And, there is no problem with that. I don't plan on any all-the-time
loads on the 12V system in my EV ( except the radio memory - very low
current).
I think you misunderstood what I meant by, "This is normally how a DC
to DC converter is used." That was in response to the first 2 questions
Eric posed.
Having the DC-DC on all the time would also subject it to noise -
and, perhaps, overvoltage- while charging the main pack, and also
continually drain the main pack. And, it's something that can fail
when the car is unattended.
I suspect that always on is common because we are often using AC to DC
converters that happen to work fine on DC. Because of this they
generally have a fair bit of input capacitance and are real hard on the
relay that would be switching them on and off. There are other ways to
handle this issue, but they generally demand little power when there is
almost no load and most have a voltage set point that is in a batteries
float voltage range (around 13.6 volts instead of 14.5 volts like most
alternators.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:56:34 -0500, "Phil Marino"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>For that matter, can the DC/DC be always on, provided the output is
>>>unloaded or very lightly loaded?
>>
>>This is normally how a DC to DC converter is used. Many EVs have the DC to
>>DC on all the time. My EV Buggy does not even have a 12v accessory battery.
>>
>Why is it usually set up that way in an EV ? In ICE cars, the 12V battery
>is not charged all the time - only when the car is running. And, there is
>no problem with that. I don't plan on any all-the-time loads on the 12V
>system in my EV ( except the radio memory - very low current).
I leave my DC/DC on all the time because I chose to save money and buy
a smaller one than my total load indicated. The aux battery is
continuously but slowly discharged when I'm driving with the lights
on. The DC/DC charges the battery when the vehicle is off and when
it's being charged.
>
>Having the DC-DC on all the time would also subject it to noise - and,
>perhaps, overvoltage- while charging the main pack, and also continually
>drain the main pack. And, it's something that can fail when the car is
>unattended.
Not a problem in my case, since the car sits on shore power anytime
it's not being driven. I have an undervoltage trip, just in case the
power cord falls out or something.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope Jeff Shanab's motor is repairable or at least has some parts that
can be salvaged. My motor was damaged far beyond practical
repair. The ends of the armature coils that had been attached to
the commutator flailed the field coils and destroyed them. Brushes,
brush rigging and the aluminum end bell were in many small
pieces. The shaft and coupling were ruined when the key sheared off
and the coupling spun on the shaft.
I felt fortunate that the clutch and flywheel didn't explode and that the
transmission suffered no noticeable damage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Steve clamps everything together, then taps his tranny with the motor
> running, regularly pushing in the clutch, until it is quiet as
> possible. Now it is lined up, so the holes are drilled perfectly
> aligned.
I was thinking along similar lines. My car won't have a clutch, so that
simplifies things somewhat. I don't think I have the clearance even if I did
want to use a clutch because the motors I have (got a cheap set of 3, one was
blown) are thin and long.
Originally I was thinking about cannibalizing the clutch to make a adapter, but
both the motor and tranny have shafts that are of similar diameter. Now I'm
thinking I could mate them by slipping a pipe around both shafts, then drilling
holes through each and fixing them with a couple of bolts. The connection will
not be 100% tight, but if I then align the motor/trans in the above mentioned
way, I shouldn't have a problem. To make things complicated, the motor only has
a shaft that's about an inch long.
I don't think I need to get fancy, I couldn't get more then 15hp out of the
motor
anyway. Do you have a place to put images? I could post a couple of shots of
what I'm dealing with. It might not be doable with the motor I've got, it was
originally a power converter for aircraft. The Geo was originally a three
cylinder with the motor and transmission mounted in tandem, not in the U shape
configuration normally found in front wheel drive cars, so it's tight.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From Slashdot:
Honda FCX goes for a test drive
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/02/business/hydrogen.t.php
Some interesting notes:
* the car costs about $1M.
* the Spallino family are leasing it for $500 a month
* no info about range or power
* the only refuelling point is Honda's HQ
Wow - imagine what $1M would get you with advanced batteries and
charging technology :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be very leary of putting the motors together with a section of pipe
and a couple of bolts. That puts an awful lot of stress on those two bolts.
Why not use a motor to motor coupling made or bought that would put them
together with a rubber spider in between them. If you do a google search
for shaft couplers you will see the type of setup I am referring to.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Martens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:08 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
> Steve clamps everything together, then taps his tranny with the motor
> running, regularly pushing in the clutch, until it is quiet as
> possible. Now it is lined up, so the holes are drilled perfectly
> aligned.
I was thinking along similar lines. My car won't have a clutch, so that
simplifies things somewhat. I don't think I have the clearance even if I
did
want to use a clutch because the motors I have (got a cheap set of 3, one
was
blown) are thin and long.
Originally I was thinking about cannibalizing the clutch to make a adapter,
but
both the motor and tranny have shafts that are of similar diameter. Now I'm
thinking I could mate them by slipping a pipe around both shafts, then
drilling
holes through each and fixing them with a couple of bolts. The connection
will
not be 100% tight, but if I then align the motor/trans in the above
mentioned
way, I shouldn't have a problem. To make things complicated, the motor only
has
a shaft that's about an inch long.
I don't think I need to get fancy, I couldn't get more then 15hp out of the
motor
anyway. Do you have a place to put images? I could post a couple of shots
of
what I'm dealing with. It might not be doable with the motor I've got, it
was
originally a power converter for aircraft. The Geo was originally a three
cylinder with the motor and transmission mounted in tandem, not in the U
shape
configuration normally found in front wheel drive cars, so it's tight.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not hard to imagine, times that by 10 and you can invent an EV1 :-)
Wow - imagine what $1M would get you with advanced batteries and
charging technology :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to do that, but the shaft that comes out of the motor is threaded,
and locked with a half-moon key. It was originally where the cooling fan was,
and that kind of fastening isn't meant for much torque either. The motor is
actually two on the same shaft, with cooling fans on either side. Looks kind of
like one of those old shoe polishing machines. I didn't pay much for the
motors,
so I'm not married to them, but I don't think any off-the-shelf solution will
work for me. I figure If I use high grade bolts and the connection is snug
enough, they won't shear. I could fit two bolts on either end.
Chris
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would be very leary of putting the motors together with a section of pipe
> and a couple of bolts. That puts an awful lot of stress on those two bolts.
> Why not use a motor to motor coupling made or bought that would put them
> together with a rubber spider in between them. If you do a google search
> for shaft couplers you will see the type of setup I am referring to.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have a picture? It sounds like the motor is the same as a bench
grinder motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Martens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 2:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
I would like to do that, but the shaft that comes out of the motor is
threaded,
and locked with a half-moon key. It was originally where the cooling fan
was,
and that kind of fastening isn't meant for much torque either. The motor is
actually two on the same shaft, with cooling fans on either side. Looks
kind of
like one of those old shoe polishing machines. I didn't pay much for the
motors,
so I'm not married to them, but I don't think any off-the-shelf solution
will
work for me. I figure If I use high grade bolts and the connection is snug
enough, they won't shear. I could fit two bolts on either end.
Chris
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would be very leary of putting the motors together with a section of
pipe
> and a couple of bolts. That puts an awful lot of stress on those two
bolts.
> Why not use a motor to motor coupling made or bought that would put them
> together with a rubber spider in between them. If you do a google search
> for shaft couplers you will see the type of setup I am referring to.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
It's great to read about your enthusiasm - as many on the list
are likely empathetic to (esp myself)!!
I'm running a '93 Daytona conversion in MN (winter), and on
considering dropping the voltage from 120 to 96, I received some fair
advice to keep the 120v system. However, my range requirements did not
mitigate the purchase of 20 6v batteries to replace the tired pack.
Therefore, I decided to use 15 US 8vGC batteries which result in a
calculated range of 40 miles (conservatively). I'm still in the early
stages of break-in, so I've been keeping round trips to ~20 mi daily, so
I have yet to confirm my calcs.
If I had my druthers - and was in the market for a new
controller & charger, I'd seriously consider a 144v system using 8vGC's.
For you, the capacity will be there, the range will be there, and you'll
save 2 batteries (tri-fold savings; cost, weight, space). You may
sacrifice a bit of pack longevity, but with your daily 30mile mission,
and slower road speeds (i.e. slower discharge rate than 144v highway
drivers) my guess is that you'll end up with a fairly good life.
The selling point to a 144v system that appeals to me is
ACCELERATION! My Daytona is certainly heavier than your Thing, but if
your motor can handle the extra voltage, the acceleration point is one
to be carefully considered.
Best to you in planning,
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: John David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:20 PM
To: evlist
Subject: It's an Electric Thing, you wouldn't understand....
Listers,
As hinted by my subject line, I'm now the proud owner of a 1973
Volkswagen
Thing, or Type 181, and am going to convert it to electric this winter.
Yahooo! I'm really excited about it and, even though I won't pick it up
until Thanksgiving, I can't wait to get started and I'm beginning the
planning process now. My goal is a very short range city commuter,
thirty
miles minimum per charge at no more than 45 mph, with a ceramic heater
(I
live in Maine). I of course want a good clean install that doesn't look
like
a science project. I originally had a 72v Rabbit (Bob and Seth know what
Rabbit I'm talking about) with a 6.7" motor that had too much rust in
places
I couldn't fix (places like the A pillar) so I had to pull all the
components out and scap it. I'm going to reuse as many of the components
from the Rabbit as I can but will replace some things like the charger
and
maybe the controller, depending on what voltage I wind up going with.
As far as voltage goes, I think my only options are to keep the 72v
system
or move up to 96v. I'll be using 6v floodeds and I doubt the car could
handle anything more than 96v. If I stick with 72v, I would be able to
keep
the same controller and would only need to buy a smart charger to
replace
the K&W I have now. If I went with 96v, I would have to go with a new
controller (the Curtis I have now maxes out at 72v) but from what I've
been
told, the motor should be able to handle 96v with no problem. I might
even
go with the 500 amp Curtis or possibly a 1k Zilla for some real punch.
Sixteen batteries with a 96v system might be tough to do. Mike Brown,
one of
my heroes on this list, believes the Thing chasis can handle the weight
of
96v of floodeds but I'm mostly worried about layout. I want to keep the
back
seat and I want to keep the batteries as low as possible in the chasis.
I
think I will be able to fit two in the engine bay, six in the trunk (in
the
front), four under the rear seat, and four behind the rear seat. The
four
behind the rear seat will be higher than I wanted but I don't have
anywhere
else. Seventy-two volts would be a lot easier to layout than 96v. Two in
the
bay, six in the trunk, and four under the rear seat. Plus, with 72v, I
could
hold off on getting another controller for awhile.
Do the old air cooled VWs have vacuum assisted brakes or are they just
completely manual? I plan on converting to disc all around. I'm going to
keep the clutch because with just a 6.7", I'm sure I'll need to go
through
the gears quite a bit.
I'm also considering doing the solar panel thing. Yes, I know a set of
panels on a house using the grid as a battery is better but I'm a renter
and
that's not an option. I also know that it won't hugely increase my range
but
it's something neat that I'd like to do. Plus, the Thing has lots of
flat
surfaces that I can sink the panels into. I also have a hard top that I
can
graft more panels into. How do you charge batteries with solar panels?
Are
there DC to DC chargers?
If anyone has any advice, ideas, or criticisms please speak up. Thanks
guys
and I can't wait to get to work on this.
John David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How do you put files on your listserve/ftp site? The help link in the intro
listserve is broken.
Chris
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you have a picture? It sounds like the motor is the same as a bench
> grinder motor.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Martens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 2:53 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
>
>
> I would like to do that, but the shaft that comes out of the motor is
> threaded,
> and locked with a half-moon key. It was originally where the cooling fan
> was,
> and that kind of fastening isn't meant for much torque either. The motor is
> actually two on the same shaft, with cooling fans on either side. Looks
> kind of
> like one of those old shoe polishing machines. I didn't pay much for the
> motors,
> so I'm not married to them, but I don't think any off-the-shelf solution
> will
> work for me. I figure If I use high grade bolts and the connection is snug
> enough, they won't shear. I could fit two bolts on either end.
>
> Chris
>
> --- "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I would be very leary of putting the motors together with a section of
> pipe
> > and a couple of bolts. That puts an awful lot of stress on those two
> bolts.
> > Why not use a motor to motor coupling made or bought that would put them
> > together with a rubber spider in between them. If you do a google search
> > for shaft couplers you will see the type of setup I am referring to.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OOPs I meant by a factor of 10 or 1 Billion dollars...
It's not hard to imagine, times that by 10 and you can invent an EV1 :-)
Wow - imagine what $1M would get you with advanced batteries and
charging technology :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-11-03, Chris Martens wrote:
>
> Now I'm
> thinking I could mate them by slipping a pipe around both shafts,
> then drilling holes through each and fixing them with a couple of bolts.
A bolt is not a key, nor is it a uni joint. It'll shear off,
sooner or later, and it'll make a huge mess when it does.
Cheaper to do it properly in the first place.
-----sharks
--
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://zoic.org/sharkey/>
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is
that it has never tried to contact us." -- Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 08:36:24PM +0000, damon henry wrote:
> OOPs I meant by a factor of 10 or 1 Billion dollars...
You can save a bundle if you don't lobby against your car while you are
building it ;)
>
> >It's not hard to imagine, times that by 10 and you can invent an EV1 :-)
> >
> >>Wow - imagine what $1M would get you with advanced batteries and
> >>charging technology :-)
> >>
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, but I suppose my only alternative would be a trip to the local machine
shop...
Chris
--- Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2005-11-03, Chris Martens wrote:
> >
> > Now I'm
> > thinking I could mate them by slipping a pipe around both shafts,
> > then drilling holes through each and fixing them with a couple of bolts.
>
> A bolt is not a key, nor is it a uni joint. It'll shear off,
> sooner or later, and it'll make a huge mess when it does.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have two of the fuel cell vehicles in Las Vegas. I have talked with Dan
Hyde about them. He has driven them and likes them, says they have good
acceleration and speed. Cost is the biggest drawback, but they have come
down a lot since the first models, and if mass produced should get to a
reasonable price. Don't forget that these are EVs, with fuel cells instead
of batteries. When the fuel cells become available at a lower cost we
should be able to pop them into our cars in place of the batteries and have
the range everyone is waiting for.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-gov/2005/jan/20/518155726.html
Gail
> [Original Message]
> From: Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 11/4/2005 7:08:00 AM
> Subject: Honda FCX goes for a test drive
>
> >From Slashdot:
>
> Honda FCX goes for a test drive
> http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/02/business/hydrogen.t.php
>
> Some interesting notes:
> * the car costs about $1M.
> * the Spallino family are leasing it for $500 a month
> * no info about range or power
> * the only refuelling point is Honda's HQ
>
> Wow - imagine what $1M would get you with advanced batteries and
> charging technology :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug,
I don't have alot of time to do research on the site right now, but ill let
you know what exactly i am looking for. I need a brushless motor which is
more efficient then the etek B&S motor, it has to handle two optima
batteries in series plus solar panels (about 1200 watts cont) and most be
able to handle the surge which could be up to 2000 or more im guessing by
looking at the CCA capacity of the red top optimas.
I DON'T want something that can handle much much more then that (anything
above 10hp) since i won't be able to output it and it will simply be an
inefficency.
What i want to know....
Options for speed controller, can i use the alltrax? or do i have to buy a
new one. Is it programable? How much?
Price range on the motor.
RPM efficency graph at 24v. I know that the B&S engine is very efficient at
36 and 48v (curve stops at 4000 rpm) however at 24v eff curve stops at
1600rpm.
~Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IIRC you get about 72rpms per volt on the etek.. Which means it would max out
rpms at around 1600.
Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:<snip>
RPM efficency graph at 24v. I know that the B&S engine is very efficient at
36 and 48v (curve stops at 4000 rpm) however at 24v eff curve stops at
1600rpm.
~Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was pleasantly surprised this morning to see the above vehicle on e-bay. I
am in the planning stages of building my 4th EV right now, and strongly
considered just buying this one instead of converting one for myself. After a
lot
of thought, I have to pass on it today. Maybe a few years from now, when the
price is a little lower and I have a little more saved, I can make it happen,
but not today. So, I will continue to plan, possibly for the next 1.5 - 2
years. In the meantime, I am reading and re-reading about every EV book
written
and doing a lot of thinking and reflecting back to all my experiences with my
other three EVs.
This did raise many questions in my mind, so I am curious if people on the
list who have these vehicles can comment. I am considering one of these "post
factory converted" cars vs a conversion of lets say a 2001 Geo Metro with 144 V
system, running a 9.1" ADC motor. Which is better, and why?
1. I am concerned about serviceability. The AC drive system is complex. If
it breaks, where will I turn for parts / service?
2. I believe the Solectra has a lot more customizations that say the typical
converted 2001 Geo Metro with a DC system. Again, for those people who have
these cars, who works on them (besides you).
3. I prefer the "automatic transmission" (actually direct drive), but if the
other car only uses 2nd around town and 3rd at highway speed, that wouldn't be
that big of a deal to me. Also, several of the conversions (Cloud EV) for
example are clutchless. If you are using a 9.1" motor, do you really need the
clutch?
4. Charging. The Solectra seems like it has a much better charger than what
I have seen in typical conversions. Maybe one can buy such a charger, but I
haven't really looked. I am only familiar with my own cars and my own
experience.
5. Cost. OK here is where I probably will differ from others opinions on the
list. I think one of these Solectras can be bought for $6500 - $7500 with a
pretty much dead battery pack, maybe not today, but if I hunt around for the
next 2 years, I bet I'll find one at that price. I'd prefer the dead pack, so
that when I replace it at least I know it is new as opposed to someone's 2 - 3
year old pack that they claim is in good shape. Pretty much if I buy a used
EV, I want the pack nearly dead for that reason. Factor out the battery cost,
and another year or two of wear and tear, and I think my price is pretty
reasonable. For the conversion, if I do all the work and really scavenge for
the
parts, I think I can create a 2001 Geo Metro with 9.1" ADC motor and 144 V
system for around $5000 + the donor car. Some may disagree, so I'd like to
hear
your thoughts. If I plan well and do "ALL" the work myself, I think it can be
done. That means, I would only buy the motor and possibly controller off the
shelf (used hopefully). I would build the mounting plate and coupler,
battery boxes, all instrumentation, and charging system. By the way, I really
like
individual chargers for each battery. I feel like it keeps them better
charged and prevents over / undercharging better. That is just my opinion, and
I am
sure others disagree.
6. The big deal is performance and range. That is the real hook for me. How
would the performance of this solectra compare to the IEC version, and the
version with the 9.1" ADC driven at 144 V? I am thinking of both acceleration,
top speed, and range. If I go for one of these cars vs my $2500 - $3000
budget conversion / rebuild of another old Jet Electra, it has to be usable as
a
primary means of transportation. I need a real range of 45 - 50 miles that I
can count on. I'd prefer closer to 60 miles. I know it is wishful thinking,
but that is what I would need for a vehicle in that price range (as opposed to
a
car to drive only 10 - 15 miles a day tops). Big difference.
7. Effect on battery life. Is the AC system inherently "easier" on the
batteries than the DC system, or is it the other way around, or no difference.
I hope this message stirs some good discussion about these cars vs typical
conversions, AC and DC, serviceability, cost, and performance. I also hope
someone buys this car and puts is to good use. My old Jet had 25,000 miles on
it
when I sold it. In the future, I'd like a car that I can put that kind of
mileage on and enjoy trouble free for many years (of course with battery pack
replacements).
Steve
--- End Message ---
