EV Digest 4911
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Vanadium Redox battery
by laptop2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Mr Chris zach, Anyone Else Re Batteries And Charging projected
range on nicads
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV digest 4908
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: MN EV'er's
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Xebra EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Please IGNORE Neon John
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) 74 Ghia
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Please IGNORE Neon John (was: Re: Just Joshin' Electric-car
driver ...)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
components.)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Solar Recharging Station for EV's
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Solar Recharging Station for EV's
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Solar Recharging Station for EV's
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV museums
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Solar Recharging Station for EV's and Just joshing EV terrorists
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: MN EV'er's
by "Tim Medeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
components.)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: CalCars Visit to Seattle a Resounding Success
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EV Confidential Update
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Motor com banding, was Re: Motor pic site up
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EV, Freedom EV prices, and Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have recently read about a new battery technology: Vanadium Redox.
It seems to be like the best new thing out so far. They are using it in
Japan for power plants high usage time buffers.
It seems like this would be great in a car if you could build the right
kind of tanks for them and if you could do it within decent weight
limits. I thought about designing one myself, but I haven't done enough
research yet to figure out if its even feasible for a small vehicle size
battery. Or where to get the Vanadium and if its toxic or not, etc.
If anyone else has some more info Pros/Cons about this I'd like to hear
them. If this is at all possible maybe there could be a collaboration of
sorts to get some plans and some prototypes build for our personal testing.
-Mario-
Vancouver, Washington.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I Would Like To Have A Battery Setup Like CZACK, Below, And The Possibility
Of A Better Charger Like He
Wants.
Important thing: My last name is Zach. Zack is the other side of the
family; there are all sorts of interesting historical tiffs going back
and forth on that for the past 800 or so years. I'm sure we will all get
it worked out, but in the meantime it's with an "h"
Where Can I Buy High & Medium Grade Batteries.
I'd suggest reading the list and trying things on a small scale before
buying a big lot of batteries. Most of us have torched at least one pack
due to mistakes; even on my Elec-trak I have battery monitors and
E-Meters to keep an eye on things. It's not simply fire and forget.
Take your time. I'd suggest starting with something like an Elec-trak or
a Commutacar; simple thing. I started with a 300 volt Dolphin based AC
car, and while I do like it, it's pretty easy to do something stupid and
totally screw it up.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LCC is going come up with some new products to make
conversions alot easier. Not just for my shop but to
sell to others doing conversions. We eventually want
to sell and design everthing from needed to do a
conversion, perhaps kits as well. We are working on a
battery cover that doubles as a hold down with an
integral battery managment system. Kill as many birds
with one stone as you can, right?
as far as the adaptors go, yes I will be doing those.
I just need to figure out all of the dimensions I
would need to make one. I will come up with some kind
of form to fill in the blanks. If I remember
correctly, the VW pilot shaft sticks out of the trans
housing a bit. On one of my adaptors I did pull the
pilot shaft out of the trans and shortened it but I
could just add a small spacer.
I haven't put any pilot bearings in the motor shaft
just a dab of grease. it would be easy to insert a
bronze bushing in but I don't feel it is needed as
there is so little shifting going on. but it would be
easy if that gave peace of mind.
Gadget
> > From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: unveiling the Gamera Nine
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:10:30 -0800
> To: [email protected]
>
> Mr. Gadget,
>
> That adapter design is frickin' brilliant, if you
> don't mind my saying
> so.
>
> Welcome to the fray! Is LCC going to be selling
> products like your
> adapter, or are you sticking to the conversion
> business?
>
> Now some questions and comments regarding your
> adapter design: on my
> aircooled VW transaxle, the pilot shaft normally
> fits into what VW
> calls a "gland nut" for some reason, although it's
> really a hollow bolt
> with a pilot bearing inside. The point being, that
> an unmodified VW
> pilot shaft probably won't work with your method, it
> would need to be
> turned down and shortened. If you're doing a kit
> for sale, you might
> want to include a modified pilot shaft as an option.
>
> The next question: do you fit a pilot bearing inside
> the pilot hole
> drilled into the motor shaft? If not, why not?
>
> Good luck with LCC, and thanks for posting the pics
> of your innovative
> conversion work.
>
> Later,
>
> Doug
>
> On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:50 AM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
>
> > Hello Jay and all,
> > I posted the Gadget flywheel adaptor 2.0 on my new
> > website. It might just work for you with no
> welding
> > required. I like this method ALOT. the whole
> process
> > to make the adaptor took less than 2 hours.
> (machine
> > shop required) check it out at
> > leftcoastconversions.com
> >
> >
> > Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mueller, Craig M wrote:
> Calling all Minnesota EV operators!!!
>
> As of yet, we are among the black holes regarding organized private EV
> users. I'm checking to see if there is interest in forming a local
> organization (centered in the Twin Cities, but we can make honorary
> trips to St. Cloud for Lee). WI, IA and SD/ND residents are also
> encouraged to reply.
>
> Please reply on-list, as it appears there are only a few tuning in from
> the upper midwest (hopefully not, though).
Hi Craig,
About time we looked into forming a locak club! I'm all for it. I'd even drive
to the Twin Cities for meetings (or invite you all here :-)
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Whoa! I just talked to Mr. Starr they are being imported and they are DOT
> approved. 6 are in the country but not in owners hands yet. They will be
> at the Moscone Center for the Car Show. They will be across from Damlier
> Chrysler. LR.....
Garry is a BS artist of the first order - how much do you trust him?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I was afraid that Neon John would use this as an excuse to make such a
> comment. I'm sorry to say this is the usual.
>
But what would you expect when a post with the word "vegan" is read by a BBQ
restaurant owner?! Like waving a red flag to a bull...it's not the color, just
the waving!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay - with Karmanneclectric and anyone interested. I
added some picks of the ghia and a write up in my
crude website, check it out.
I will try to add more photos later.
Jimmy
http://www.dm3electrics.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Shawn,
Great stuff and way to go for organizing this EVent, which I'm looking
forward to! I have two Toyota RAV4-EVs that my wife and I use as our daily
drivers, one or possibly both of which (depending on the potential interest)
I would like to bring to the Show & Shine event from Noon to 4pm on
Saturday, January 21. These would obviously not be in consideration for any
of those awards you mention because they are OEM vehicles and not something
I designed and created myself, unlike all the other entries. Nevertheless,
I thought it might be of some interest for the media and the public to see
what is (or rather what *was*, but still could be) possible in an
OEM-produced EV. I am not interested in any type of racing, however, since
with an anemic 17 second 0-to-60 time, there's really not much point in
that! However, if there is any interest in using either of my RAV4-EVs for
infield duty or other type of service, I am willing to provide them for that
purpose.
I might actually be able to drive my RAVs up to Moroso and back on a single
charge, but it would be a little tight, and that wouldn't allow for anything
other than being parked on static display while there (which would preclude
the possibility of giving people rides, which I am always willing to do).
So I would like to ask you: What are the possibilities for charging at or
near Moroso?
I have a portabilized TAL inductive charger that has a 14-50 plug on it with
neutral shorted to ground inside the plug, and I have 50 ft. of 10/3 cable
with a 14-50 receptacle on one end and a 10-30 plug on the other end. This
is very convenient for plugging into a 240V/30A dryer circuit as I did here
initially until I got a new, dedicated circuit put in for the TAL. I could
also make up a 10/3 cable with 14-50's on both ends (with neutral floating),
but I'm not supposed to plug the TAL into a circuit with anything greater
than a 40A breaker, i.e. a 50A breaker (which is usually on a circuit with a
14-50 outlet) might be a problem. I'll have to check with the RAV4 list
on that. It might be OK to do so in a pinch on a one-time basis. So
basically my preferences for what I would need for charging at or near
Moroso are either a 240V/30A circuit with a 10-30 outlet or a 240V/40A
circuit with a 14-50 outlet. Another important thing is that any such
circuit must *not* have a GFCI on it (like a hot-tub GFCI or anything like
that) or else the TAL will not work since it has its own internal GFCI which
will cause it to constantly trip if there's another GFCI on the line.
My charging MO will be to place the TAL down on the ground near the front of
the car (where the charge port is located) and then run a 50 ft. 10/3 cable
to a suitable 10-30 or 14-50 outlet. I had some concerns about this, but
that is actually how the RAV drivers out in California do it on longer trips
where they won't have access to the public charging network.
So are there any such charging possibilities up there at or near Moroso?
And if so, how many such charging circuits are there, and what do you expect
the demand to be for using those circuits by other EVs in attendance? (I
need about 5 hours for a full charge but will probably only need about 2.5
hours to opportunity charge once I arrive there since I should be just a
little over half charge.)
(I guess I should probably arrive early in the morning on Saturday to make
sure I can get in my charges.)
Finally, as I think I may have mentioned to you before, I've opened the
first (and so far the only) public charging station in the state of Florida,
as listed on EV Charger News' national listing of public charging stations.
You can see the entry for my charging station at:
www.evchargernews.com/regions/33445_1.htm. This might be convenient for
Cliff Rassweiler of ProEV in Miami and/or Lowell Simmons of Miramar High
School if they are planning to actually drive (as opposed to trailer) their
EVs up to Moroso as I am about to halfway to Moroso for both of them. So
they are more than welcome to stop in here for a charge on their way, if
they'd like. I've got a 240V/40A dedicated circuit with a 14-50 outlet and
also a 240V/30A dedicated circuit with a 10-30 outlet, both of which do not
have GCFIs on them. I've cc'ed Cliff on this message, but I don't have
Lowell's email address and have never seen him post on the EVDL, so you
might want to pass this along to him. Anyone else from Dade or Broward
counties who's driving an EV up to Moroso is also welcome to stop in and
charge here, whether I'm here or not. Map and directions are included on my
EV Charger News station listing at the link above.
Oh yeah, one last thing, I almost forgot. I won't be participating in the
EV Autocross Race on Friday afternoon, but I would be interested in getting
together with you guys for the EV Social EVent at or near the beach
afterwards. Have you decided on the time and location of that yet?
See you there,
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
On Monday, November 14, 2005 9:03 AM, Shawn Waggoner wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to give everyone an update on the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout
Event taking place in FL next January 21st. The new website is up, but
still
needs some work. The website with all the information about the race is
at:
http://www.batterybeach.com
The event plans are to have a show and shine competition Saturday
afternoon
at the race track and the drag race Saturday night. The Show and Shine
will
start at Noon and go till 4:00PM, gates for the race open at 4:30 with
racing starting at 5:00PM. Prizes and awards for the Show and Shine will
be
given for "Best Engineered Car", "Viewer's Choice", "Participants Choice"
and others. The viewer's and participant's choice will be by ballot from
the
public and attendees voting for their favorite. Awards and trophies for
all
the events will be given Saturday night after the drag race at the award
ceremony.
In an attempt to have a bigger event and media draw, we are scheduling
this
year's event to be a two-day competition! Friday, January 20th, in the
afternoon, we will be having an EV Autocross Race near the track. Friday
night after the Autocross, we will be having a Social / EV Get-together
near
the beach for all the attendees with their EV's. (Where else can you hang
out near the beach with a bunch EV's???)
Having both events would not be possible without the die-hard efforts of
two
of South Florida's EV'ers, Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons. I'd like to
thank
them both for all of their hard work and inspiration! I'd also like to
thank
Chip Gribben for the awesome graphic for the race and website!!!
The two day event will be packed with competitions, races and fun. We are
hoping to have several high school and college teams, as well as the
professional or individual racers.
If anyone is planning on attending, or would like more information, please
email us at: race_at_batterybeach.com
Thanks and hope to see everyone in Florida next January for the
Southeast's
biggest EVent!
Shawn Waggoner
NEDRA South East Coordinator
Battery Beach Burnout Organizer
www.batterybeach.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Other message boards I've been on have a phrase for this:
DFTT (Don't Feed The Trolls).
Just like wild bears, if you don't feed him (i.e. respond to his posts),
he'll get bored and wander off.
> On 16 Nov 2005 at 16:54, Neon John wrote:
>
>>
>> Hmm, seems like a case where a little FBI-administered brutality was
>> completely justified.
>
> I was afraid that Neon John would use this as an excuse to make such a
> comment. I'm sorry to say this is the usual.
>
> Folks, please ignore this post and all of NJ's future posts in which he
> displays his trollish attitude. NJ gets his jollies annoying certain
> kinds
> of people, of which there's a fair number on this list. What he wants
> more
> than anything else is to prompt an indignant response. DON'T indulge him!
>
> NJ is not worth responding to or arguing with. It's a waste of bandwidth
> -
> and more importantly of your time and effort. Just smile a little at his
> amusing antics, then hit DELETE and move on. Better yet, add him to your
> email filter so you never see this stuff.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well then, I fail to see why you are criticizing someone's ideas about how
to design a vehicle that will be safer in an accident by giving an example
of a vehicle that has NEVER been in an accident. If you do something
stupid and survive, that doesn't mean that it wasn't stupid.
The whole concept behind the word "Accident" is that it is something that
you DID NOT intend to happen, and quite often it is something beyond your
control.
Normally your comments are intelligent and well thought out, but I have to
say that this one was pretty boneheaded.
> Exactly none since I have owned it.
> I intend to keep it that way.
>
> Also all the lead is in the back trunk behind the engine and behind the
> drivers compartment.
>
> But I did Goldie years ago with just gravity... I would hold a battery in
> place on Regen or heavy brake.
>
> Not real smart... but..hey I am not dead either.
>
> Madman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
> components.)
>
>
>> Hey Rich,
>> exactly how many crashes has that Fiero been in?
>>
>>
>>
>> > And then we have folks like me... I have run years without any battery
> tie
>> > downs... Gravity tie downs I call them.
>> > Gee again I am not very Dead.
>> >
>> > Yes Goldie is NHRA Battery tie down legal.
>> > The Fiero is not... and has not been raced.
>> > And all the lead is stuffed in the back trunk. And Can't really move
>> > anyway...unless I roll it.
>> >
>> > 20 Gs is quite a bit of overkill.. And I thought NEDRA was 10 Gs.
>> >
>> > Also we are not doing crash testing. At least on purpose.
>> >
>> > Lets keep the safety in line with reality...
>> >
>> > Rich Rudman
>> > Manzanita Micro
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:32 AM
>> > Subject: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
>> > components.)
>> >
>> >
>> >> Craig Mueller wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > -Craig
>> >> > Electric Daytona
>> >> > http://www.geocities.com/cmmuell/
>> >>
>> >> Ummm, I hope I'm wrong here and most likely am, but in all those
>> >> pictures I see no battery hold-downs anywhere. At first I figured
>> they
>> >> just happened to have been removed when the pictures were taken, but
>> >> looking closer I see nowhere for battery hold-downs to attach.
>> >>
>> >> For the benefit of the newbies and on the off chance that there are
>> in
>> >> fact no battery hold-downs in your car, let me *strenuously* suggest
> you
>> >> install some. Soon. The batteries under the hood are bad enough -
>> the
>> >> hood won't hold them, it will likely buckle and/or unlatch in a
>> >> collision. The ones in the passenger compartment will literally
>> pound
>> >> you into a lifeless pulp in a moderately severe collision. A
>> collision
>> >> from which you might otherwise be able to walk away with only minor
>> >> injuries.
>> >>
>> >> I believe NEDRA wants battery restraints to survive impacts of 8g
>> >> lateral and 4g vertical. The Tour del Sol is more stringent (my copy
> of
>> >> the regs is dated 5/03), requiring 20g front impact, 10g side and
>> rear,
>> >> 5g rollover.
>> >>
>> >> Speaking very generally and assuming prudent design and construction,
>> >> you can probably satisfy all these requirements using 1 x 1/8 angle
>> >> steel in contact with at least two opposite edges of each individual
>> >> battery. Use no less than one 3/8 bolt per every two batteries
>> >> (depending on the size and shape of the pack in question), assuming
>> >> proper distribution around the restraint to spread the load.
>> >>
>> >> People have been killed by flying objects as small as a cell phone in
>> a
>> >> collision. 60+ lb. batteries are not to be trifled with.
>> >>
>> >> Chris
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I am writing to express my interest in a solar re-charging station for EV's.
I know this sounds very inefficient, but using a bank of batteries charged
from a solar array, to top up the batteries of the EV. Most of us are out
during the day so cannot take in the solar energy directly. And most of us
do not have enough space on our roof to put large solar modules on that
would be of benefit to re-charging.
And the price of electricity here in Australia is dirt cheap compared to
rest of the world. But still, its green power we are using here. And yes,
the embodied energy of solar modules and the re-melting of the lead plates
for new batteries is large..
Anyone shine some light on this topic.
Pretty much like a stand alone power system for EV charging only.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11/17/05, Robert Chew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am writing to express my interest in a solar re-charging station for EV's.
> I know this sounds very inefficient, but using a bank of batteries charged
> from a solar array, to top up the batteries of the EV.
Personally I think you'll find it's more cost effective to use grid
connected PV for this, depending on the agreement you can get with
your electricity utility. Whether it's technically more or less
efficient, it's hard to say, but at least you can export and import
without "apparent" loss.
But in Australia, your milage may vary.
And anyway, what do I know, I'm only a EV-driving vegan with solar
panels and a hydro turbine ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AHAHAHAHAHAH Thanks Evan.
Keep it up. Man this thesis is expanding out of its scope.
Well I didn't have any scope to begin with
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: 17 November 2005 22:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar Recharging Station for EV's
On 11/17/05, Robert Chew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am writing to express my interest in a solar re-charging station for
EV's.
> I know this sounds very inefficient, but using a bank of batteries charged
> from a solar array, to top up the batteries of the EV.
Personally I think you'll find it's more cost effective to use grid
connected PV for this, depending on the agreement you can get with
your electricity utility. Whether it's technically more or less
efficient, it's hard to say, but at least you can export and import
without "apparent" loss.
But in Australia, your milage may vary.
And anyway, what do I know, I'm only a EV-driving vegan with solar
panels and a hydro turbine ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip Gribben wrote:
Marc has a good point. There are thousands of car buyers plunking down
up to $53,000 for Mercedes, Cads, Hummers and Bimmers everyday. A loaded
SUV with leather and all the options could easily catch 50 grand. Then
many of them spend another several thousand dollars on custom wheels and
tires.
... to get really noticed. No one will notice you in boring-looking
RAV4, so why spend 53K? It's pure ego, has nothing to do with being
electric or being right or wrong.
Vitor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, this was a really cool museum, one guy in his 70's was taking care of
two warehouses worth of EV's, lots of rare ones too. EV-1 was there and he
took me for a ride in an 1914 trolly type wheel car. I remember a Henny
Killowatt etc.
Have a nice day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:22 PM
Subject: EV museums
> They don't say anything about it on their website, but I believe the
Boyertown
> (PA) Museum has an historical EV collection. The Eastern Electric Vehicle
> Club in the Philadelpia area has had some dealings with them in the past.
>
> http://www.boyertownmuseum.org/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert and All,
They have been doing this for 15 yrs at U So Fla. But
they put the power into the grid if not charging EV's with it as the solar
makes most of it's power during the day when power is most needed, most costly,
most polluting usually. Best would be go this way to reduce peak electric loads
and charge at night from the grid from cheap non load electric rates.
Check out the TECO website for pics I believe.
On Johns post, lighten up!! He was just being sarcastic as
he probably dislikes that kind of gov cr-- as much or more than we do.
But John, please put something in the post body to indicate
you are being sarcastic sp others know, especailly with your rep here..
Personally, I was LOL. John posts other stuff that deserve calling him to task
but this is not one of them.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Robert Chew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
AHAHAHAHAHAH Thanks Evan.
Keep it up. Man this thesis is expanding out of its scope.
Well I didn't have any scope to begin with
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: 17 November 2005 22:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar Recharging Station for EV's
On 11/17/05, Robert Chew wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am writing to express my interest in a solar re-charging station for
EV's.
> I know this sounds very inefficient, but using a bank of batteries charged
> from a solar array, to top up the batteries of the EV.
Personally I think you'll find it's more cost effective to use grid
connected PV for this, depending on the agreement you can get with
your electricity utility. Whether it's technically more or less
efficient, it's hard to say, but at least you can export and import
without "apparent" loss.
But in Australia, your milage may vary.
And anyway, what do I know, I'm only a EV-driving vegan with solar
panels and a hydro turbine ;)
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Sure, I'd be interested. I'm located north of St. Cloud.
Tim Medeck
Calling all Minnesota EV operators!!!
Craig Mueller
Electric Daytona
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--- Begin Message ---
There is another way to install batteries and/or battery cells with out any
mechanical restraints, is to install the batteries in a tight fitting
reinforced container. This is how industrial 2 volt cells are install in my
first EV.
There was two containers, one in front that held 40 cells and one in back that
held 50 cells. The cells had a 1/4 space between them with 1/4 plastic glass
in between the cells and place about 3/8 down between the cells. The remaining
space to the top of the cell was fill with a acid proof caulking battery
compound. Could use neoprene caulking that comes in a caulking gun.
The cells are recessed about 3 inches into these boxes with a drain hole coming
out the side of the containers at the top surface of the cells. The cells had
a high fill neck on them. To clean then , I could just flood the top of the
cells of mix of water and baking soda which would just drain away and than run
clear distill water to rinse.
My next set of batteries were 6 volt. I install them in the same way. It
works good. The battery containers are very heavy duty type with a epoxy
coated fiberglass liner in a 1/4 thick aluminum box with three 3/8 thick beams
that is welded to the boxes, is then bolted to the car frame with 12 each grade
eight bolts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
components.)
Well then, I fail to see why you are criticizing someone's ideas about how
to design a vehicle that will be safer in an accident by giving an example
of a vehicle that has NEVER been in an accident. If you do something
stupid and survive, that doesn't mean that it wasn't stupid.
The whole concept behind the word "Accident" is that it is something that
you DID NOT intend to happen, and quite often it is something beyond your
control.
Normally your comments are intelligent and well thought out, but I have to
say that this one was pretty boneheaded.
> Exactly none since I have owned it.
> I intend to keep it that way.
>
> Also all the lead is in the back trunk behind the engine and behind the
> drivers compartment.
>
> But I did Goldie years ago with just gravity... I would hold a battery in
> place on Regen or heavy brake.
>
> Not real smart... but..hey I am not dead either.
>
> Madman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
> components.)
>
>
>> Hey Rich,
>> exactly how many crashes has that Fiero been in?
>>
>>
>>
>> > And then we have folks like me... I have run years without any battery
> tie
>> > downs... Gravity tie downs I call them.
>> > Gee again I am not very Dead.
>> >
>> > Yes Goldie is NHRA Battery tie down legal.
>> > The Fiero is not... and has not been raced.
>> > And all the lead is stuffed in the back trunk. And Can't really move
>> > anyway...unless I roll it.
>> >
>> > 20 Gs is quite a bit of overkill.. And I thought NEDRA was 10 Gs.
>> >
>> > Also we are not doing crash testing. At least on purpose.
>> >
>> > Lets keep the safety in line with reality...
>> >
>> > Rich Rudman
>> > Manzanita Micro
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>> > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:32 AM
>> > Subject: Battery restraints (was: RE: CAD models for common EV
>> > components.)
>> >
>> >
>> >> Craig Mueller wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > -Craig
>> >> > Electric Daytona
>> >> > http://www.geocities.com/cmmuell/<http://www.geocities.com/cmmuell/>
>> >>
>> >> Ummm, I hope I'm wrong here and most likely am, but in all those
>> >> pictures I see no battery hold-downs anywhere. At first I figured
>> they
>> >> just happened to have been removed when the pictures were taken, but
>> >> looking closer I see nowhere for battery hold-downs to attach.
>> >>
>> >> For the benefit of the newbies and on the off chance that there are
>> in
>> >> fact no battery hold-downs in your car, let me *strenuously* suggest
> you
>> >> install some. Soon. The batteries under the hood are bad enough -
>> the
>> >> hood won't hold them, it will likely buckle and/or unlatch in a
>> >> collision. The ones in the passenger compartment will literally
>> pound
>> >> you into a lifeless pulp in a moderately severe collision. A
>> collision
>> >> from which you might otherwise be able to walk away with only minor
>> >> injuries.
>> >>
>> >> I believe NEDRA wants battery restraints to survive impacts of 8g
>> >> lateral and 4g vertical. The Tour del Sol is more stringent (my copy
> of
>> >> the regs is dated 5/03), requiring 20g front impact, 10g side and
>> rear,
>> >> 5g rollover.
>> >>
>> >> Speaking very generally and assuming prudent design and construction,
>> >> you can probably satisfy all these requirements using 1 x 1/8 angle
>> >> steel in contact with at least two opposite edges of each individual
>> >> battery. Use no less than one 3/8 bolt per every two batteries
>> >> (depending on the size and shape of the pack in question), assuming
>> >> proper distribution around the restraint to spread the load.
>> >>
>> >> People have been killed by flying objects as small as a cell phone in
>> a
>> >> collision. 60+ lb. batteries are not to be trifled with.
>> >>
>> >> Chris
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, It seems to me this car would be a slap in the face to Toyota and
it's engineers when some people from our country figure out a way to make
their car better and have better overall mileage than what they have come up
with. Steve, did they give any indication of any response they have had from
Toyota. I understand that they have contacted Toyota. I'm just curious of
this angle. I remember when GM made piss poor TV ads for the EV1 Marvin
Rush, who at that time was with production of Star Trek Enterprise,
produced his own commercial which was much better. He had it shown on TV.
This was all on his nickel. GM was embarrassed and finally bought it from
him.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR"
<[email protected]>; "Bill Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:05 PM
Subject: CalCars Visit to Seattle a Resounding Success
Finally, folks in the Pacific North West got a "Hands ON - First Hand look
at California Cars Initiative's "Prius PLUS" This Monday, 11/14. Felix
Kramer, the founder of CalCars, and Ron Gremban one of their lead
engineers, drove their 100 mpg Prius on to the court yard of Seattle City
Light. With TV cameras blazing, and Radio Microphones on "RECORD" several
dozen dignitaries and environmental types showed up for the press
conference. Seattle City Mayors office was represented, along with City
Light, the Mayors Task force on the Environment, City council members,
Puget Sound Clean Cities Org., Seattle Electric Vehicle Association, and
many more too numerous to mention.
Local media coverage was good, and very positive, but as always could have
been longer, and more detailed.
After the News Conference, the car traveled to South West Seattle to South
Seattle Community College, where one of the States largest Automotive
programs is taught, and the students got a chance to see the car and ask
more technical questions.
Then it was off to Wenatchee Washington in Eastern Washington for a
conference to kick-start a Pug-In Hybrid program much like what Austin
Texas is currently working on, where cars might be modified on a near
assembly line like basis, for those who can NOT Wait for Toyota to create
Plug-In hybrids off their own assembly lines.
On behalf of the Seattle EV Association, we sincerely Thank Felix and
company for their visit to the Pacific North West, and wish them well in
all their most important work.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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Hi All, We are going to have to wait an extra long time for Christmas this
year. I just got word that EV Confidential won't be out until the spring or
early summer of 2006. That is a long time to wait but it will be worth it.
On another note, Monster Garage will be doing an EV episode. I have been
contacted by them as well as several other ampheads. It seems they may want
performance. I will keep you all posted.
Roderick Wilde
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Hi John, Jim and All,
Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Great start, Jim. I really enjoy motor
pix :-)
I have some questions.
In the Warp 9 photo series, you show some unbaked banding. That looks
like filament packing tape. Is that what you're using?
Referencing the same photo, have you given any consideration to
banding the bearing end of the commutator, perhaps by machining a
groove at the end and wrapping with kevlar thread and epoxy? I'm
I don't understand why people use Kevlar for this as it has a
fairly low melting point !! One would be much better off using either
fiberglass or Carbon fiber with melting points in the 1,000's instead of Kevlar
in the hundreds.. Personally I'd use fiberglass and a high temp epoxy.
I'd also twist it so it takes less room so more metal to disapate
heat.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
thinking about doing that to my hotrodded CitiCar motor to make it
more likely to withstand high RPM operation. I'm interested in your
thoughts.
I've kevlar banded both ends of the windings down to the comm bar
risers and have observed the armature with a Strobotach while running
it at 8000 RPM on the bench. I saw absolutely no movement. I'm still
concerned about the bearing end of the comm, particularly when it is
hot.
In the last photo in the TinyTim series, you show a Warp 9 armature
next to the little motor. Is the white band in the center of the Warp
9 armature banding? Is this something you added or does the Warp
armature come that way?
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:56:03 -0800 (PST), Jim Husted
wrote:
>Hey all
>
> I've been trying to get a web site up where I could at least share with you
> all some pic's of motors and stuff. Do to my stupidity I won't have modem
> internet again till the 19th. I finished up-loading some pics today at the
> shop via dial-up (OMG). I decided to go ahead and give you guys a link rather
> than wait till I add the latest, and some older pics. I tried to make it as
> dial-up friendly but some of the pics take a bit to load but not to bad I
> hope. I think you all should find it a useful tool as we discuss motor stuff.
> There are some "glad I'm not that guy" pics up but I have alot more to post
> when my cable is back up this weekend. Anyway I hope you all enjoy the site.
> www.freewebs.com/hitorqueelectric/
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Hi Marc, Damon and All,
Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Perhaps the purchaser has rooftop solar. He/she may have already
bought that lifetime supply of electricity.
Since electric charging most likely will cost less than $100/yr, does
that matter?
There are many reasons to buy an EV and this sale just goes to show
how strong the EV market is when an old EV sells more than a new Lexus .
With it, the price of the new Sparrow/Myers and the Tango, I'm
thinking of raising the price of my Freedom EV !!
And no doubt the Sunrise would easily sell for $35k-40k.
Now if one was to get a good composite sportscar body and start
producing really hot, fast EV's, you could easily sell them for $50K
Waylandized !! A person could make good money building just 2-4 a yr of them,
think about it !! They would only cost under $20k to really mack out both in
speed, range and looks. The market is there, when are people going top start
building to it?
I just found a custom car interior builder to do the inside of the
Freedom EV so the interior will match the cool looks of the exterior as looks
is what most of the time sells !!
Slowly getting the first body, chassis built. Boy, composites are a pain
in the butt messy, but it really comes out nice!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:21 PM, damon henry wrote:
> Except that this is not a Mercedes, Cadillac, or BMW. It is an
> old model Toyota Rav 4 who's gas equivilant and functional superior
> could be picked up at 10% - 20% of that price. BTW - I don't
> believe that the auction included a lifetime supply of electricity,
> so whoever bought this is going to still have to add electricity on
> a regular basis.
>
> Now if it had one of those Tilley black boxes it would clearly be
> worth $53K :-)
>
> damon
>
>
>> From: Marc Geller
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Toyota RAV-4 EV sold for $53,000
>> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:45:12 -0800
>>
>> The question is how many people today plunk down $53K for a car
>> and still have to add gasoline on a regular basis. Obviously not
>> most people, but enough to make business for Mercedes, Cadillac,
>> BMW and many other automakers. Is there a market for equivalent
>> priced cars that never need gas? I think so.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>>
>>> Chip Gribben wrote:
>>>> During our EVA/DC meeting yesterday Brian Murtha, who owns a
>>>> RAV-4 EV, turned to me and showed me a message on his
>>>> Blackberry that said a RAV-4 EV on eBay just sold for $53,000.
>>>> That's right $53,000!!
>>>> Bidding went pretty crazy during the last two minutes
>>>> apparently. Anyone else hear about this?
>>>> People are wanting EV's and paying the price to get the EV grin.
>>>
>>> Chip, this is not quite "people". This was an individual
>>> with $53k laying around for that kind of fun. Yes, there are
>>> plenty of wealthy individuals, some of them willing to pay $53k
>>> for a RAV4-EV. May be 20, may be 100. But even at 1000 mark,
>>> it is not "people" (millions) as defined or seen by manufacturers.
>>>
>>> No one will start producing anything for 1000 people - this
>>> is rather in collectibles category.
>>>
>>> What percentage do you think of US population needing EV
>>> can plunk $53k for it in one shot, like this guy did?
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>
>
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