EV Digest 4929
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Charger options
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery appearance; sulfation?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Charger options
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Charger Options
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: fiero adapter question
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVLN(I would like to see plug-in hybrid model as an option)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV production! Who's interested in figuring out how to make $ at this!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) e-meter doesn't reset...
by "Dave & Deb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 1981 jet electric electrovan
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: e-meter doesn't reset...
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: e-meter doesn't reset...
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: For Kicks and Giggles
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charger options
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(I would like to see plug-in hybrid model as an option)
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(I would like to see plug-in hybrid model as an option)
by Joel Shellman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Charger options - FSM
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Charger options
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Low rolling resistance tires
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Charger options
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Charger options - FSM
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Charger options
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 1981 jet electric electrovan
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EVLN(I would like to see plug-in hybrid model as an option)
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Cold storage of Batteries
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---On 21 Nov 2005 at 15:59, Fortunat Mueller wrote: > i agree that Rich's chargers are a pretty good deal > for the price. It is just that even the small one has > more power than i need, and I would rather not pay for > it if I don't have to. I am also saving to upgrade to > a decent controller so $$ is sparse (isn't it always). One of the EV charging rules of thumb is "pay now or pay later." Cheaping out on the charger means you'll be replacing your batteries sooner. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---On 21 Nov 2005 at 21:36, Dave & Deb wrote: > if the battery is bulging on > the ends and firm (no give when you press on it) and/or shows signs of > swelling around the + terminal post (look for a stress line circling the > post) the battery is sulfated and it's time to recycle it. Swelling is not a symptom of sulfation. I'm not an electrochemist, but as I understand it, what we call sulfation in batteries is an irreversible condition in which lead sulfate (a normal product of the discharge chemical reaction in a battery) forms crystals which resist being chemically recoverted to lead. This happens when the battery is chronically undercharged and/or allowed to remain in a discharged state for a prolonged period. These lead sulfate crystals eventually flake off the plates. They are then suspended in the electrolyte (which I believe causes a greyish appearance) and/or precipitate out. They're pretty much harmless except that (1) if too much of this lead sulfate collects at the bottom of the cell it can short the cell; and (2) they represent active material which can't take part in the cell's chemical reaction and thus are indicative of lost capacity. This lost capacity can't be regained by any method other than replacing the battery. There are no magic potions or electronic gadgets which can reattach this stuff to the plates. I used to think that the case swelling and displacement of the positive terminal was caused by positive grid corrosion (from overcharging). But I was wrong. According to Nawaz Qureshi of US Battery, who ^is^ an electrochemist, "The swelling is primarily caused by the expansion of the negative active material from cycling and is usually harmless. The increase in grid volume owing to the corrosion of the positive grids is negligible." So there you have it - swelling just means that the battery has been cycled a lot. That in turn may well mean that the battery is worn out from use, but it has nothing to do with sulfation. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---Fortunat Mueller asked: >>> Can anyone point me to a charger? My criteria are: >>> - able to charge a 240 V pack (so up to nearly 300 VDC) >>> -runs off either 110 or 220. >>> -less than $1k >>> I have a K&W BC20... You could add a contactor to switch the pack into two 120v parallel strings for charging, and use the K&W BC20. >>> -doesn't need a lot of smarts, but should at least have >>> voltage and current adjustments. What kind of batteries? That determines how smart the charger needs to be. You can get away with a crude charge for floodes, but AGMs will require more care. >>> is there a modular solution that meets my needs ? Peter VanDerWal wrote: > couldn't you just run the variac backwards and eliminate the step up > transformer? A 120v variac actually has a single 140v winding, with the two ends, fixed taps 20v in from each end, plus the sliding tap controlled by the knob (5 wires altogether). You could connect 120vac between the lower end and the tap near the top end, to get 140vac across the ends. Rectifying 140vac produces 196vdc max -- too low to fully charge anything over a 156v pack. Rich Rudman wrote: >> I have the soluttion... >> But it's not less than $1K. >> I doubt you will find one... You mean your PFC charger; not the variac-rectifier you proposed next. :-) >> The simplest is a 240 0 to 280 volt Variac and a rectifier...And a >> voltage regulating circuit. Yes; very cheap and crude. I'd add current control. or at least a circuit breaker so mis-adjusting the knob won't blow a fuse. >> Running off of 120 you are going to have to find a Step up transformer. A 240vac variac has a single 280v winding, with fixed taps 40v in from each end. Therefore, it can handle 280-40-40 = 200vac between its two taps. Connect this to the 120vac line; that's 120/200 = 0.6. The voltage at the outside ends is then 280vac x 0.6 = 168vac. Rectifying 168vac produces 235vdc, which is barely enough for a slow opportunity charge. One more trick is to wire the rectifier as a voltage doubler instead of a bridge. When you have 240vac, use a bridge. But when you have only 120vac, wire it like this (view with a fixed-width font): 120vac hot___ (black) _| |_ diode |__/_______|\|_____ pack + 120vac |_ \ | |/| | variac |_ | __|__+ | | ___ | | | - neutral______|___ | __________| pack center tap (white) | | | __|__+ | ___ | diode | - |___|/|_____| |\| pack - This charges the 240v pack as two 120v half-packs without having to cut them into two strings or rewire them. -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---I am gonna jump in here and defend rich. :-) A little more than just a timer, Op amps for comparisons and latches and triggers. The hardest thing for a computer to do is emulate analog signals, if you look at the code in a so called "smart charger" it emulates comparaters(op-amps) and implements timers. It is usually easier to "just use a micro" but not automatically better. The difference is if you can or want to model the process without memory. If a microprocessor based charger looks at the inputs and provides and output, it is no smarter than a circuit doing the same. If however it tracks repeated chargeing profiles and uses the trends in the multiple chargeings to alter it's settings, then it truly is "smart". But we don't want that, we don't want a PFC to remember the last charge was on a 100ah 300V pack when we are trying to charge the 24V 40ah lawnmower or finish off a charge that a different charger initiated, we don't want to wait for it to re-learn. Perhaps It's extream versatility is it's curse, it requires the operator to have the brains :-). The improvements I hear about would probably be in the charger if they didn't add cost for features most people don't need, that would be digipot and AC side ammeter and maybe a dc side ammeter. but rich freely gives us the info on how to make a 2 pot board with toggle switch to easily charge 2 different EV's. god bless. Which reminds me of this.... ICE cold shoulder Last time I went to the ford dealer parts department to see about getting the parts necessary to do a timeing chain on my aunts car, they wanted over $500 for the little chain glides and the cam sprockets, but they couldn't sell me timing chain, I had to go "after-market" for that. Mind you this is the 4.6L v8. As I walked out of the parts department a sales guy approached me about buying a new car. I chuckled at his poor timing and he persisted. So I asked him why would I buy a car from a company that doesn't stock all the parts, overcharges for the ones they do sell and designs things to break like a cam bolt spanning 3/4" of open space?( the bolt broke off and fell into the works). I told him that if he could get me the source code for the ECU and a 3D cad file of the drivetrain, i would consider it.
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--- Begin Message ---David Brandt wrote: > Hi guys. I bought a nice cast aluminum adapter from Randy at CANEV for > my V6 Fiero. He said I'd have to buy a flywheel for the 2.5L 4 cyl. > engine for it to work. Is your flywheel neutral balanced or does it have any balance weights on it? What's the imbalance of it?
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--- Begin Message ---damon henry wrote: > The big question in my mind, and I have a Honda Insight, is whether Hybrids > are worth the extra expense and complexity over the long run. Could a fully electric lithium powered version of the Insight be built at the same price or less then the hybrid version is currently priced at?
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--- Begin Message ---Peter VanDerWal wrote: > They have decided that producing EVs is not in their best interest and I > don't see them changing their minds any time soon. You must think their is an unlimited supply of oil then? http://www.theoildrum.com/
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--- Begin Message ---I just got my Honda EV project on the road and it runs great, but my e-meter will not reset after charge. my pack is a string of 7 12v I am using a K&W BC20 charger no line booster. I have wired it per e-meter instructions, the 12v batt is isolated from the main pack. I have set the following e-meter parameters: battery capacity 100Ah charged volts 95v charged current factor 4% (charging current must be below 4amps) F09 the discharge floor - 50% pre-scaler 2 (0-500v) I am certain that my charger is bringing the pack up to full charge I get good specific gravity readings after a 7 or 8 hour charge and 8 hour rest. the e-meter reads 96v and the current draw on the charger is something between zero and 1 amp at the end of the charge cycle. questions: 1. why isn't the e-meter resetting? 2. shouldn't the e-meter displays the amps coming in during charging? It doesn't. I have the charger negative wired to the battery side of the shunt and the e-meter HV- to the load side of the shunt thanks, Dave
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--- Begin Message --- Go for it. It will climb any hill you put in front of it. LT tires are available for it. Made by Hercules. Mine is a daily driver. Very depenable. It has a big GE motor and a GE EV - 1 SCR controller. The groaner. Curtis controllers squeel. These moan. Lawrence Rhodes..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Brinsmead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: 1981 jet electric electrovanHi Folks I noticed a 1981 ford ranger glider ,called a jet electrovan on the GSA auction site http://gsaauctions.gov it is in Santa Fe New Mexico. Auction closes on the 25th.curently at $580. kinda rough but looks to be intact, anyone know what kind of motor and controller, regen? Bill Brinsmead
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--- Begin Message ---On Nov 22, 2005, at 10:22 PM, Dave & Deb wrote:2. shouldn't the e-meter displays the amps coming in during charging? Itdoesn't. I have the charger negative wired to the battery side of the shunt and the e-meter HV- to the load side of the shuntThe charger power isn't going through the shunt!The e-meter pack negative line needs to be wired to the battery side of the shunt, the charger negative needs to be connected to the other side of the shunt, and the 2 shunt lines that sense current need to their own separate wires connected to their own connections on the shunt (not on the studs - very small voltage differences are being measured.)Paul "neon" G.
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--- Begin Message ---On Nov 22, 2005, at 10:22 PM, Dave & Deb wrote:2. shouldn't the e-meter displays the amps coming in during charging? Itdoesn't. I have the charger negative wired to the battery side of the shunt and the e-meter HV- to the load side of the shuntOH!! Two other things.1. The power for the e-meter needs to be isolated from the vehicle 12 volt system. This is important because the meter power negative input in NOT isolated from the pack negative. 2. Please disconnect the e-meter positive connection before you play with any of the wires on the negative side. Think NO smoke.
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--- Begin Message ---On Nov 22, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Danny Miller wrote:What a world of lazy people we live in. They'd pay $5.4M to anyone willing to go to the work of answering YES!, but apparently this is too much trouble for you.Please tell me you are NOT serious. Your reply seems to be lacking the appropriate emoticon.Most likely they don't have that kind of money (its speculative) and all the want is to drag a reputable business name into their promotional scam.I never have to plug my EV in if I walk :-P Paul "neon" G.
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--- Begin Message ---Charge controllers have a large span of evolutionary complexity. For example, here is a list from simple to complex: 1. Rectifier on AC source (No voltage limit, No current limit, circuit resistance is the only thing limiting current and taper parameters) 2. Common Current/Voltage control (variac charger, or capacitor bank charger. Each tapers with no regulation) 3. Voltage limit control but no current control (regulated power supply without current control) 4. Current regulation and Voltage limit (IU profile for lead acid batteries). 5. Bulk, timed acceptance and float profile (three stage charge profile) 6. Bulk, acceptance, timed equalize and float profile (four stage charge profile) 7. Programmable profile with ampere hour counting and timed shutoff. 8. Programmable profile with time of day turn on, ampere hour counting and timed shutoff. 9. Line reactive inverter/charger tied into utility rate schedules to buy low and sell high. The list does not address power input issues such as PFC, frequency capability, input voltage requirements, number of input phases required, DC compatibility, etc. It only addresses charge controller complexity. The PFC chargers rank between a four and a five on this scale because of the timed acceptance but lack of a float mode. There is no question the PFC chargers are not the smartest chargers on the market, however, they score high enough on the complexity list that their 15 microcircuit brain should be considered of significantly greater intelligence than a rock (unless you have much smarter rocks than in my yard). The question to be answered here is: Does the trim pot that controls the voltage, the front panel pot that controls the current and the timer switch constitute intelligent design (or maybe an evolutionary improvement from the lower forms of charger controllers.) The controls provided by the creator are there to adapt the charger to a new environment, however, the programmer/user must set the controls to keep the resident battery happy and healthy allowing it to live a long and productive life. Must a charger be intelligent enough to sense a battery change and adapt to it without any input from the user to be considered an intelligent charger? I believe if a charger is teachable (with a screwdriver in this case) then it is more intelligent than a rock (which is not teachable.) Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:41 AM Subject: Re: Charger options > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 2:28 PM > Subject: RE: Charger options > > > > > > > If you're using simple floodeds, you might be best to spring for the > > smallest PFC model from Rich Rudman. It won't be isolated, and is dumb > > as a rock, but you will have only a single box to mount and it can be > > adjusted to give you whatever your outlet will allow. IIRC, the > > smallest PFC model is about $1500. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Roger. > > > Roger..I am not sure Dumb as a Rock... is a lable that I will take sitting > down. Just because I don't have a Micro and a couple of man years of code > inside, Doesn't mean We can't > drill a IE Lead Acid curve dead on. > > They are pretty Smart Rocks..... > > And we make 5000 watts on the small one and can hit 12 to 450 volts on all > of them. > > For the guy that wants grunt charge power and simple charge curves... We are > doing pretty good. > > Rich Rudman > Manzanita Micro >
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--- Begin Message ---Phil Wrote:As far as emissions vs gas mileage, if you are concerned about green-house gases, the CO2 (the dominant green house gas) that a car produces is exactly proportional to its fuel usage. There is no magic that hybrids can do to change that. So, the Prius produces 17% less CO2. Not a HUGE difference.I was about to respond to Phil and say there is a huge difference in respect to large units of vehicles. But just for grins I ran some numbers. As of September Toyota sold 72,000 Prius' in the US in 2005. They will probably exceed 100,000 cars in 2005 like they did in 2004. I think total worldwide sales to date are well over a 1/4 million.The Prius emits 104 grams/km of CO2. The average car produces 198 grams/km. Toyota Echo, 117 grams/km. Just for fun the Hummer H2 produces a whopping 432 grams/km of CO2. Choke me baby.For 100,000 cars that equates to about 11.46 tons of CO2 - Prius 12.89 tons of CO2 - Echo 21.85 tons of CO2 - Average Car 47.61 tons of CO2 - Hummer H2 Your mileage may vary and I'm NOT a professional number cruncher. Chip Gribben NEDRA Webmaster http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---On 11/22/05, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Using all the above, which is very realistic, the difference between the > two cars is a staggering 35% better mpg while still offering more > interior space for everyone....that to me, is indeed, revolutionary! That's where we differ then. 35% is nothing I get excited about in this case. What's the percentage difference between the gas geo metro and an electric geo metro? on the orders of 100's of percents isn't it? Or what if the Prius could plugin, or was a serial hybrid? Then we're talking 100, 200% maybe? That qualifies as revolutionary. 35% is just incremental. Significant I'll admit, but incremental--especially considering how overhyped and how it's supposed to be this whole new technology. I guess my point is the same that has been overly rehashed too many times so I apologize. 35% increase fine--but dissappointing considering it could be so much more. > getting it. By the way Joel, my Insight was rated at 70 mph highway, 61 Yes, I bought a car this past year and wished I could have afforded a used Insight.
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--- Begin Message ---Uh oh - we're stepping into ID vs Evo territory. Time to bring out the Flying Spaghetti Monster charger, with the power conducted through its noodly appendage. Mark (sorry :-) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Smalley Subject: Re: Charger options ... The question to be answered here is: Does the trim pot that controls the voltage, the front panel pot that controls the current and the timer switch constitute INTELLIGENT DESIGN (or maybe an EVOLUTIONARY improvement from the lower forms of charger controllers.) The controls provided by the CREATOR are there to adapt the charger to a new environment, however, the programmer/user must set the controls to keep the resident battery happy and healthy allowing it to live a long and productive life. ... Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---Lee Hart wrote: Lee, you always need to mention for solutions like this that the pack absolutely must be isolated from the chassy (or chassy from the ground, e.g. from the mains). VictorOne more trick is to wire the rectifier as a voltage doubler instead of a bridge. When you have 240vac, use a bridge. But when you have only 120vac, wire it like this (view with a fixed-width font):120vac hot___ (black) _| |_ diode |__/_______|\|_____ pack + 120vac |_ \ | |/| | variac |_ | __|__+ | | ___ | | | - neutral______|___ | __________| pack center tap (white) | | | __|__+ | ___ | diode | - |___|/|_____| |\| pack -This charges the 240v pack as two 120v half-packs without having to cut them into two strings or rewire them.-- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---Mark Fowler wrote:The follow on from this is that it will be technically possible to make an EV that has the range of an ICE car (thanks to the light weight and high capacity of lithium) that is able to be 'refuelled' (albeit to about 80%) in a matter of minutes.True, but forget about doing it for an EV. A 2Ah battery in a power tool can be recharged to 80% capacity in minutes if supplied 10C rate (20A to recharge in 6 min in this case). For an EV with 100Ah battery this means 1000A charging rate, or for 200V pack is 200kW charger. (mind you this is the power consumed by average small neighborhood). Good luck finding suitable charge station. Victor
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--- Begin Message ---When I tried buying them there were only a couple places that had them and they wanted $300+ a piece. If they were only $90, I would have bought them over the RE92s, especially considering the fact that the type of RE92 I got wasn't one of the "true" LRR sizes. My RE92s get about 10-15% less range than my old Goodyear LRR tires that are no longer in production (Invictas ?, something like that) > Michelin LRR tires were named Proxima and price was arround 90$ expensive > but not even close to 350$...or you take 4 :^) > > cordialement, > Philippe > > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ? > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ? > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: Low rolling resistance tires > > >> > I was hoping it would. However, does anyone have a guess at a number? >> > >> >> 10-20% depending on numerous other factors. >> >> > And if I had an EV sitting here--how much would it likely cost me to >> > put low rolling resistance tires on it? >> >> Anywhere from zero extra cost to $200-$300 more per tire, kinda depends >> on >> what tire you are looking at and which one you are comparing it too. >> My Potenza RE92s cost me about $65 each. Michalin had a true LRR tire >> at >> the time that ran something like $350 each. >> >> > Does it require new wheels, or just new tires? If only new tires, >> > could I get even more efficiency out of getting new wheels, too? >> >> Nope. If you currently have really heaving wheels, then you might see a >> miniscule improvement in efficiency by swapping to lighter wheels. >> FWIW cheap steel wheels are often lighter than expensive Aluminum "mag" >> wheels. >> >> > Anyway, if I can increase range by 10-20% for a few hundred dollars, >> > that seems to make pretty good sense to me. >> >> Yup, that's why a lot of EVers buy LRR tires. >> >> -- >> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic >> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever >> I >> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long >> legalistic signature is void. >> > > -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---> Peter VanDerWal wrote: >> couldn't you just run the variac backwards and eliminate the step up >> transformer? > > A 120v variac actually has a single 140v winding, with the two ends, fixed > taps 20v in from each end, plus the sliding tap controlled by the knob (5 > wires altogether). You could connect 120vac between the lower end and the > tap > near the top end, to get 140vac across the ends. Rectifying 140vac > produces > 196vdc max -- too low to fully charge anything over a 156v pack. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. What I was suggesting is applying the 120Vac between the lower tap and the 'sliding' tap, then taking the charge voltage off the lower and upper taps. This would allow you to adjust charge current by varying the position of the sliding tap. -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---> Uh oh - we're stepping into ID vs Evo territory. > > Time to bring out the Flying Spaghetti Monster charger, with the power > conducted through its noodly appendage. > Arrr! <signed> Pete the Pirate (my actual nickname over here) -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---He is not talking about the person being dumb - he is referring to the CHARGER. The Charger is not able to change its charge according to need so it is a Dumb Charger. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Charger options ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 2:28 PM Subject: RE: Charger options > > If you're using simple floodeds, you might be best to spring for the > smallest PFC model from Rich Rudman. It won't be isolated, and is dumb > as a rock, but you will have only a single box to mount and it can be > adjusted to give you whatever your outlet will allow. IIRC, the > smallest PFC model is about $1500. > > Cheers, > > Roger. > Roger..I am not sure Dumb as a Rock... is a lable that I will take sitting down. Just because I don't have a Micro and a couple of man years of code inside, Doesn't mean We can't drill a IE Lead Acid curve dead on. They are pretty Smart Rocks..... And we make 5000 watts on the small one and can hit 12 to 450 volts on all of them. For the guy that wants grunt charge power and simple charge curves... We are doing pretty good. Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro
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--- Begin Message ---What about a "gas station" that had 480V 400A 3-phase power, such as available to small industrial areas. Would this be a possibility? Don Victoria, BC, Canada See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov Sent: November 23, 2005 1:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...) Mark Fowler wrote: > The follow on from this is that it will be technically possible to > make an EV that has the range of an ICE car (thanks to the light > weight and high capacity of lithium) that is able to be 'refuelled' > (albeit to about 80%) in a matter of minutes. True, but forget about doing it for an EV. A 2Ah battery in a power tool can be recharged to 80% capacity in minutes if supplied 10C rate (20A to recharge in 6 min in this case). For an EV with 100Ah battery this means 1000A charging rate, or for 200V pack is 200kW charger. (mind you this is the power consumed by average small neighborhood). Good luck finding suitable charge station. Victor
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--- Begin Message ---Check out my website for more info re: Jet Electravan www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3<http://www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3> Also check out this Electravan DL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<http://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/> Good luck & Happy Holidays! Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Rhodes<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:59 AM Subject: Re: 1981 jet electric electrovan Go for it. It will climb any hill you put in front of it. LT tires are available for it. Made by Hercules. Mine is a daily driver. Very depenable. It has a big GE motor and a GE EV - 1 SCR controller. The groaner. Curtis controllers squeel. These moan. Lawrence Rhodes..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Brinsmead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: 1981 jet electric electrovan > Hi Folks I noticed a 1981 ford ranger glider ,called a jet electrovan on > the GSA auction site http://gsaauctions.gov<http://gsaauctions.gov/> it is in Santa Fe New > Mexico. Auction closes on the 25th.curently at $580. kinda rough but looks > to be intact, anyone know what kind of motor and controller, regen? Bill > Brinsmead >
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--- Begin Message ---From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: EVLN(I would like to see plug-in hybrid model as an option) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:39:17 -0500 Phil Wrote:As far as emissions vs gas mileage, if you are concerned about green-house gases, the CO2 (the dominant green house gas) that a car produces is exactly proportional to its fuel usage. There is no magic that hybrids can do to change that. So, the Prius produces 17% less CO2. Not a HUGE difference.I was about to respond to Phil and say there is a huge difference in respect to large units of vehicles. But just for grins I ran some numbers. As of September Toyota sold 72,000 Prius' in the US in 2005. They will probably exceed 100,000 cars in 2005 like they did in 2004. I think total worldwide sales to date are well over a 1/4 million.The Prius emits 104 grams/km of CO2. The average car produces 198 grams/km. Toyota Echo, 117 grams/km. Just for fun the Hummer H2 produces a whopping 432 grams/km of CO2. Choke me baby.For 100,000 cars that equates to about 11.46 tons of CO2 - Prius 12.89 tons of CO2 - Echo 21.85 tons of CO2 - Average Car 47.61 tons of CO2 - Hummer H2 Your mileage may vary and I'm NOT a professional number cruncher. Chip Gribben NEDRA Webmaster http://www.nedra.comThanks for the data, Chip. My take on this is that :1. The advantage emissions-wise of the Prius over another modern, high mileage car ( like the Echo - my family owns three of them) is relatively small ; 12.5% by your numbers.2. But, if large numbers of Prius are bought by people who would otherwise drive cars like the Average Car in you list ( or, even better yet, Hummers) , that would be a great benefit.Phil_________________________________________________________________Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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--- Begin Message ---I live in Central NY State where during the winter months the ambient air temp rarely gets above zero degrees F. I store my EV from mid November until mid April. What are the proper methods of charging the batteries or protecting the batteries from freezing during this long term storage? The garage the EV in is not heated. I'm using 16 six volt lead acid batteries in my EV. What special attention do the batteries require during long term cold storage? Also, I may be shopping for a new charger. Nothing fancy. Something that will charge 96-120 VDC traction pack and is able to accommodate AGM batteries as well as "traditional" or "standard" 6/8/12VDC batteries. Any recommendations? I have three 30 year old Lester chargers. What is the general opinion of Lester chargers? I believe my Lester chargers would severely damage AGM batteries. Is this true? Enjoy your turkey! Don Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3<http://www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3><<attachment: MSN_dudes.jpg>>
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