EV Digest 4944
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Bizarre charger behaviour: dilute electrolyte?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NAPA Floddies
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Inertia Switch
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NAPA Floddies
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Looking for some spare SAFT STM5-180 nicad blocks
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) ev racing ,new MP/e record
by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !! (OT)
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ev racing ,new MP/e record
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ev racing ,new MP/e record
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: what about battery swapping ? was: Look at fast charging from the
other end of the plug
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EDTA Electric Vehicle Conference, BEST mag
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Rush Revisited [was: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update] (long)
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Question about MK battery AGMs and Gel cells
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(U.S. Chamber of Commerce wants a hybrid tax)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EVLN(U.S. Chamber of Commerce wants a hybrid tax)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EVLN(hybrids to be taxed to pay for lawmakers' pet projects)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EVLN(Altair Nanotechnologies manufacturing hybrid li-ion batteries)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
It certainly makes sense that if the electrolyte is
more dilute, that voltage wouldn't rise as readily.
Has this happened to any of you before?
Does it?
Wouldn't the reverse be true, more dilute electrolyte means a higher
internal resistance, and voltage would tend rise for the same current.
I don't think the filler is too much of an issue, slighty more dilute
electrolyte doesn't seem to have much effect on a cell's behavior in my
experience. Most of the time the "just above the plates" is so that the
cells have enough airspace at the top to avoid overflowing under heavy
charge.
You can check the SG of the cells to be sure.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charles,
We're looking forward to having both of your RAV-4 EVs at the race. However,
you should not make assumptions about there being a lack of 240V charging.
There certainly will be ample charging available, both 120 and 240 volt.
Shawn has already discussed the use of Moroso's generator with the
administration there--we're just waiting to get word back from them. Lowell
has been looking into some local sponsorship of use of a large, industrial
generator from a couple companies he's worked with in the past. I've been in
contact with Rich Rudman, and he's agreed to send off the spider box so that
we've got a bunch of extra connections to run from the 50 A, 240 V generator
outlet.
In addition, in the wake of the hurricanes of this year and last, we've got
access to quite a few 4 - 7 kW generators around here, most with 240 V
outlets.
Shawn provided an email address for information on the race when he posted
about the event two weeks ago. It's "race _at_ battery beach.com". The EV
List is great for getting information distributed, but not always the best
when you're trying to get information back! Many of us, especially after the
Turkey Day holiday, are trying to dig our way out of several hundred posts
that keep building up.
We've got a great crowd of people showing up with their EVs for this event,
and I'm especially excited about finally having mine out there, too! My
Nissan 240SX is on the road now, doing it's best to find traction with an
open diff and 2000 amps of Z2K fury running through dual 9" Warps. Two
planned upgrades will put the car at 300 V with a limited slip diff before
race day. Oh, it should be fun!
We've got some exciting additions to the competitor lineup that I'll be
talking about once they're finalized this week. I'll be monitoring the list
more closely and providing more frequent updates, so stay tuned everyone!
Matt Graham
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Whalen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:43 AM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Rush Revisited [was: Battery Beach Burnout (FL Race) Update] (long)
First, an update on the charging situation at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm
Beach for those of you bringing your EVs to the race on January 21:
I never heard back from Florida EV race coordinator Shawn Waggoner on my
list query and email to him a few weeks ago about what types of charging
outlets are available at Moroso. However I was able to find out from Cliff
Rassweiler, who regularly races his EV there, that there are only 120V
outlets and unfortunately no 240V outlets, which is what I need for charging
my RAV4-EVs. I can't charge from 120V. I could still probably make it up
there and back on a single charge, but that wouldn't allow for anything
other than static display while there. However a friend of mine in W. Palm
Beach who drives an electric Porsche 959 has offered to let me charge at his
house, so that should give me plenty of additional range for offering rides
to the media and public there at Moroso during the Show & Shine Event on
Saturday afternoon, January 21.
Cliff said he isn't aware of any plans to have a generator there, and since
we never got a response from Shawn about charging availability at Moroso, it
would be safest to assume that there will only be 120V charging.
<big snip>
Best regards,
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
>> But riddle me this. If you discharge a 100AH battery at a high rate
>> so you take 50AH out and it comes to 75 Peukert AH, if you switch to a
>> lower load where Peukert's isn't significant are there 50AH or 25AH
>> left until the battery reaches the specified cutoff voltage?
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> I'll say "50Ah left", because you took only 50Ah out, with usable
> 25Ah left to drive on. Am I right?
Right. The amphours are still there; you just can't get them out as fast.
Think of it this way. A battery is like a 10-gallon bucket full of sponges.
Fill it with water quickly, and you only get 9 gallons in before it
overflows. But fill it slower so the sponges have time to soak up water, and
you can get all 10 gallons in.
Now let's empty the bucket. If try to empty it quickly, you can get maybe 5
gallons very quickly. But then the flow slows to a trickle as the sponges
drain. It might take hours to get 9 gallons out, and a week to get all 10
gallons. In fact, the last little bit could take a month, because the only
way it comes out is by slow evaporation.
This is how lead-acid batteries behave. You can charge them to 80-90% quickly,
but that last 10-20% has to go in slowly to let them "soak it up". When you
discharge, the first 50% comes out fairly quickly. After that, the rate gets
slower and slower. Only time will let you get it all out.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I apologize if this is old news, but while taking Eve (1990 Ford
Probe) apart I found an inertia switch behind the rear wheel well,
behind the plastic sidewall. The connectors were a bit corroded but
otherwise it is a perfectly serviceable unit.
Do most cars have these now? I hadn't really thought about but I
suspect those with fuel injection probably do.
For the first EV I purchased an inertia switch, which turns out to be
made by the same manufacturer: First Technology out of the UK (they
have other interesting products). Picture of the switch and links to
the manufacture here:
http://www.evconvert.com/eve/smoke-test
If anyone needs an inertia switch I have an extra one.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is how lead-acid batteries behave. You can charge them to 80-90% quickly,
but that last 10-20% has to go in slowly to let them "soak it up". When you
discharge, the first 50% comes out fairly quickly. After that, the rate gets
slower and slower. Only time will let you get it all out.
That's something I have always wondered: When batteries get cold, the
internal resistance seems to go up. Thus my Prizm drops it's voltage to
the 260's at 3*C draw rates where it would drop into the 290's when the
temps are warm.
Given that, I can drop them into the high 250's by trying to draw 4*C
rates. Is it possible to reverse a cell on a fully charged battery just
bacause it's cold and you're drawing hard? How can that happen if the
cell is not "dead"?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
BUT, if you were to pay at the gas station for the miles you
drove it could do it then based on your odometer readings.
And if you pay for the miles you drove by how much and how often you
had to fuel your vehicle - oh wait, that is the current system and it
works quite well.
People who drive more tend to burn more fuel. Heavier vehicles tend to
burn more fuel per mile. Some times its not perfectly fair. The 2700
lb. Prius has a slightly cheaper fuel bill than the 1750 lb. Metro. The
poor air cooled Beetle owner are paying way to much because their 1800
lb. vehicle only gets 28 mpg. Having owned all these vehicles I'll buy
into the slight perceived inequality for the simplicity of
implementation. I know I have to pay my share of road taxes; however,
I'd prefer to minimize the amount paid to useless bureaucracy.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like the honeymoon is over. I have 4 nicad block failures that
need to be replaced quickly. There are two failure modes. Two of the 4
are consistantly about 1.3v less than the rest of the batteries no
matter what the mode, discharge, charge, or resting. I suspect a
shorted cell in each of them. The other two seem to have very little
capacity. Their voltage looks normal, until I discharge the pack by
70ah or so. Then their voltages are 1 to 2 volts less than the others
with a 14amp load.
I have already run a reconditioning cycle, taking the pack down by 155ah
before all the batteries finally went below 5vdc at 36amps discharge.
I measured each battery's voltage after discharging the pack 110ah.
With a 14amp load (heater on full) all the batteries were between
5.78vdc to 6.01vdc except for the 4 bad ones. The two with suspect
shorted cells were at 4.37v and 4.66v while the two with low capacity
were at 3.96v and 4.94v.
I got suspicious when the pack voltage started falling by more than the
3v/50amp that I am used to. The voltage drop delta V with a change in
current delta I of 50 amps is still 3vdc, but the overall pack voltage
sinks down by around 10vdc after drawing 150 amps for about 15 minutes.
The pack voltage springs back up to the expected voltage after resting
for just a few minutes. But this sinking is new and has been getting
worse over the last few weeks.
I have about 750 80%DOD cycles on these batteries. I'd like to find 5
STM5-180 blocks of with approximately the same number of cycles as
replacements. The other requirement is that at least 3 of them must be
left hand terminals and at least one of them right hand terminals.
Looking down on top of the battery with the positve post away from you,
left hand terminals have the positive terminal to the right and negative
terminal to the left of center. Right hand terminals are the opposite,
positive left and negative right of center.
If you have or know of someone off list that has some of these batteries
and would be willing to part with a few, please contact me off list.
Paul Wallace
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somona , Ca. Fun, Fun, Fun, Had a great day of racing ( well only about one
minute , total track time). Filled with wheel spin and wheelies.
First run of the day, cold batteries, cold track , lots of wheel spin and
S/P shifted at about 10 feet, 15.41. Run #2 , Parallel only, boring run,
slow off the line , top speed better, 15.03 sec. Run #3, batteries getting
warmer, getting better at warming up tires in burnout pit, Started out in
Series mode and manually switched to parallel , good strong run, 14.85 @85
mph for the win.(bracket racing).I dialed in at 14.8 front wheels came off
the ground about 4-6 ".It hooked up fairly well. Run #4, Batteries and tires
now warm, time between runs is getting shorter now, Good burn out, it hooked
up great , Rt was .017, 3 foot wheelie made me let up off the throttle, I
hit it again before it hit the ground and up it came again, Slowest run at
16.1, but lots of fun and nothing broke!
Lots to do before next week of racing, ICE breaker is geared to low and I
need to find someone to sit on the hood.I think she can get into the 13's
before I move on to the next voltage.
Brian D. Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Anything can be tampered with. Blocking a GPS obviously must
> block the engine from running.
Uggh, Federal Lo-Jack... no thanks :(
Using a technology that CAN'T EVER POSSIBLY be used to track the car
would be a safer bet, and much much easier to sell to the public. A good
old fashioned "tattle-box" (tamper-proof RF electronic odometer) would
be a much more acceptable choice. When you get your tabs/emissions, they
RF the miles and bill accordingly. This I actually could be persuaded to
put on MY car (size of a pack of cigs, no wires, lifetime battery, uses
accelerometer, can be used after an accident during crash
investigations, been mass-produced for years)
U=
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, this thread has engendered a great deal of discussion but it's now
threatening to degenerate into a flame war. While it does have some
pertinence to EVs, mostly the discussion is centering on gasoline-only and
quasi-hybrid vehicles.
People have firmly held opinions on things like taxation and government
activism. I don't think anybody's going to convince anybody else of
anything at this point. Why continue to waste your time writing posts that
just carry on the flames?
I won't say stop the thread, but please, let's try to keep it cool and also
keep it focused on EVs.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your fuel type and efficiency really should make no difference - it has no
impact on the road damage degree. Only your weight and miles driven do.
Not actually true. Your TIRES used, weight, and miles driven determine the
amount of road wear. There have been many studies on the causes of road wear.
Tires can be the major factor on road wear. They should definitely charge a
severe tax on studded tires, since a car using those does A LOT more damage
(sometimes by a factor of 10 more)... also many of those aggressive off-road
truck tires. Hmm, how about just taxing tire sales. You know ahead of time how
many miles they can be used for, and you know exactly (by tests) how much
damage they will do. Makes sense to me.
Now to throw a wrench into things (and to add a little on-topic content), most electric & hybrid cars use LRR tires. Do these perchance cause less road wear? Less energy shed as heat, less energy going into the road, that sort of thing.
I still like the the tax on emissions (bill based on emissions score each time you go in to get
tested), combined with the tax on tires. The "pollution tax" could go to local schools,
since the kids on the way to school are the ones who get to breath that stuff in the most. The
"road-usage tax" (levied against tire sales) could go to, um, roads!
That way there is an incentive to migrate to less polluting means of
transportation, as well as equipping your car to cause less damage to the
roads, and stuff gets paid for. There is also a nice, strong element of
free-choice in there, and existing electric car owners would see some serious
benefits.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations Brian! you've really raised the bar! From 19.359 to 14.85
is an enormous amount. Five seconds quicker is incredible. A question for
you. What is "Ice Breaker"? Is it the Tropica you had? I can't remember. You
have so many vehicles and this one isn't on your web site. I'm sure the list
would love to hear about it. Batteries, controller, motors, configuration,
etc., etc.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 9:35 AM
Subject: ev racing ,new MP/e record
Somona , Ca. Fun, Fun, Fun, Had a great day of racing ( well only about
one
minute , total track time). Filled with wheel spin and wheelies.
First run of the day, cold batteries, cold track , lots of wheel spin and
S/P shifted at about 10 feet, 15.41. Run #2 , Parallel only, boring run,
slow off the line , top speed better, 15.03 sec. Run #3, batteries getting
warmer, getting better at warming up tires in burnout pit, Started out in
Series mode and manually switched to parallel , good strong run, 14.85 @85
mph for the win.(bracket racing).I dialed in at 14.8 front wheels came off
the ground about 4-6 ".It hooked up fairly well. Run #4, Batteries and
tires
now warm, time between runs is getting shorter now, Good burn out, it
hooked
up great , Rt was .017, 3 foot wheelie made me let up off the throttle, I
hit it again before it hit the ground and up it came again, Slowest run at
16.1, but lots of fun and nothing broke!
Lots to do before next week of racing, ICE breaker is geared to low and I
need to find someone to sit on the hood.I think she can get into the 13's
before I move on to the next voltage.
Brian D. Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there pictures of the ICE Breaker anywhere?
I've found it mentioned among the cars at Woodburn 2004, and when I review
the pictures from that event the only car I don't recognize is the blue
classic-style single-seater. Is that it?
--chris
Brian D.Hall said:
> Somona , Ca. Fun, Fun, Fun, Had a great day of racing ( well only about
> one
> minute , total track time). Filled with wheel spin and wheelies.
>
> First run of the day, cold batteries, cold track , lots of wheel spin and
> S/P shifted at about 10 feet, 15.41. Run #2 , Parallel only, boring run,
> slow off the line , top speed better, 15.03 sec. Run #3, batteries getting
> warmer, getting better at warming up tires in burnout pit, Started out in
> Series mode and manually switched to parallel , good strong run, 14.85 @85
> mph for the win.(bracket racing).I dialed in at 14.8 front wheels came off
> the ground about 4-6 ".It hooked up fairly well. Run #4, Batteries and
> tires
> now warm, time between runs is getting shorter now, Good burn out, it
> hooked
> up great , Rt was .017, 3 foot wheelie made me let up off the throttle, I
> hit it again before it hit the ground and up it came again, Slowest run at
> 16.1, but lots of fun and nothing broke!
>
> Lots to do before next week of racing, ICE breaker is geared to low and I
> need to find someone to sit on the hood.I think she can get into the 13's
> before I move on to the next voltage.
>
> Brian D. Hall
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree and would like to add: i think "not long time to come" futur will
(should) see more and more EVcar leasing.
I talk about battery swap with this idea in mind:
Imagine "EVdonalds" places all arround the countries, where you come and
rent your EV for a week, for 3 years, 1 month no matter.
You can travel all around the countrie and make battery swap in each city or
stop your lease or change your car type just bringing it to one of the
"EVdonalds" stations.
If things are done well, i think it would be interesting for both owner and
customer, adding in bonus better health futur for us.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: what about battery swapping ? was: Look at fast charging from
the other end of the plug
> Doug Weathers wrote:
> > Battery swapping, because of the additional complexities it introduces,
> > will add costs at both ends of the charging cable. Both the vehicle and
> > the recharging infrastructure will become more expensive, perhaps to
> > the point of making this technology economically unviable when compared
> > to competing approaches."
>
> True enough; swappable batteries add costs. However, they also reduce
other
> costs. Whether you use them or not depends on how the pros and cons
balance
> out.
>
> Swappable battery packs are common when one party owns all the associated
> equipment (vehicle, battery packs, and charging/swapping facilities). This
> prevents cheating (seeking personal gain at someone else's expense) from
> distorting things. You can't steal from yourself.
>
> But when a battery pack is being leased, it is hard to measure its true
value.
> The supplier tends to overestimate its value (and overprice it
accordingly).
> And the user tends to abuse it (since it doesn't hurt him if he damages
it).
> Neither party can easily measure what the other is doing. It's human
nature
> for people to cheat when they aren't being watched.
>
> The main benefit of swappable packs is to allow "instant" recharging and
> "infinite" range. The equipment is not unavailable for use for hours while
> charging. It can be "recharged" by swapping the pack even faster than a
> gasoline-powered vehicle can be refuelled. This allows nearly continuous
use
> of important equipment. For instance, a warehouse can use their electric
> forklift trucks 3 shifts a day, by having 1 pack in the truck and 2 on the
> charger, and swapping packs each shift.
>
> If it saves you time or money to have your EV ready *now* instead of in a
few
> hours when it gets done charging, then a swappable pack has value to you.
You
> need to decide what you will pay for this ability. The designers then know
> how much cost they can add to the battery box and related equipment to
make
> quick-change pack feasible.
>
> > I just can't see how to get from where we are to the future where
> > we're all swapping battery packs. I can't imagine a business plan
> > that doesn't require an enormous up-front investment.
>
> A business plan that *does* require an enormous up-front cost will
> automatically be a failure. The money just isn't there to make it
worthwhile.
>
> But you don't need a big investment; there already *are* successful
battery
> leasing programs. Many large battery systems are leased; for stationary
> batteries, electric forklifts, and golf carts, for example. Most of these
> plans are like the rent-to-own furniture rackets that take advantage of
> customers who don't know any better. For instance, you can lease a set of
> batteries for your golf cart for "only $9.95/month". Keep paying that
monthly
> bill, and you get "free" replacements forever. But that's not really a
good
> deal; golf cart batteries last 5 years, and a set of six cost about
$300 --
> that's only $5/month.
>
> But it isn't all gravy for the seller of such a lease, either. The
customer
> with that $9.95/month lease is likely to abuse the batteries horribly
(what
> do I care? If I wreck 'em, I get new ones free!). They won't keep them
clean
> or add water; they won't avoid deep discharges or excessive charging. In
> short, they will cheerfully commit battricide and fully expect someone
else
> to pay for it!
>
> So, most battery leasing outfits include "maintenance" in the deal. They
come
> out periodically to clean and water your batteries, and insure that you
have
> reasonable chargers and SOC limiters to block usage if the battery gets
too
> deeply discharged.
>
> I feel that as soon as there are more than a handful of on-the-road EVs in
any
> one service area, the firms that are already doing battery leasing in
other
> markets will find it worthwhile to offer it to on-the-road EV owners, too.
>
> > For whatever reasons, the massive effort to develop the infrastructure
> > and the EV in parallel has failed in the USA.
>
> The "massive effort" was only the auto companies' tiny efforts, seeking to
> monopolize public charging stations for "their" vehicles and nobody
else's.
>
> The simple answer is this: If you already own an electric fork lift or
golf
> cart, you already know the dealers that sell, service, and maintain them
in
> your area. These people already provide the "infrastructure" needed to
> support the vehicles in use. As the market grows, they would be only too
> happy to grow this infrastructure themselves, just out of their own
profits.
> No major government mandates or spending is needed. No new NEC standards,
and
> no new "custom designed for EV" connectors, cords, or charging receptacles
> are required.
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
The BEST magazine (Batteries Energy & Storage Technology) website is
www.bestmag.co.uk . Gerry Woolf (a nice guy I met in Monaco & California
<but not at the same time>) is the Editor/Publisher email is: gerry at
bestmag.co.uk
Have a Renewable Energy Day,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Trevaskis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: EDTA Electric Vehicle Conference
> Mark,
>
> Can I trouble you for a pointer to the BEST website etc.? It sounds like
> something which I should very much like to subscribe, or at least have a
> look!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matthew Trevaskis
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> For electric vehicles, recharging installations and accessories
> ecodrive PO Box 255 Penzance TR18 9AA
> Tel: 0845 4-NO-FUEL (0845 466 3835)
> Fax*: 0845 466 4624
> http://www.eco-drive.co.uk
> *Fax modem will receive faxes electronically (without using paper) 8am-6pm
> Mon-Sat
>
> > From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:54:43 -0500
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: EDTA Electric Vehicle Conference
> >
> > Hi,
> > If anyone needs to split a room at the Pan Pacific Vancouver Hotel, I
got a
> > room for 7 days Dec 3rd - Dec 10th for $136 per night convention rate
(or
> > $68). It's normally much higher and overlooking the Pacific Ocean with
heated
> > pool, Jacuzzi exercise room at the resort. Check out
www.edtaconference.com
> > for more info. I'll be reporting for BEST magazine in the UK (Batteries
> > Energy & Storage Technology). Let me know who's going and we can meet
there
> > also.
> >
> > have a nice day, Mark
> >
> > Mark E. Hanson
> > 184 Vista Lane
> > Fincastle, VA 24090
> > 540-563-2000x290-W
> > 540-473-1248-H
> >
>
>
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Yes, you're right -- the TAL inductive charger cannot adjust its output
current and cannot scale to a lower input current. It draws a continuous
27A and must be plugged into at least a 30A, 240V outlet or else it won't
work.
Charles
On Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:13 PM, Nick Austin wrote:
>Rassweiler, who regularly races his EV there, that there are only 120V
>outlets and unfortunately no 240V outlets, which is what I need for
>charging my RAV4-EVs. I can't charge from 120V. I could still
>probably make it up
On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 08:27:50PM -0500, Mark Grasser wrote:
You could haul an isolation transformer and wire it for 110 in and 220
out,
not much current though. Better would be to make a "Y" cable with two 110
15 amp plugs, plug one into an outlet and then look for another outlet
that
is on the other side of neutral.
Good point, but isn't the TAL inductive charger a 6.6KW unit?
I was also under the impression that you can not adjust the output
current.
This means you would need a 55 amp 120 circuit to provide enough power.
I'm not sure how many 120's can put out 55 amps?
Thanks!
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm no engineer, but wouldn't it be simpler to have an onboard transmitter
send your current odometer reading to a receiver at the pump (or charger!)?
Marv
> From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:00:59 -0800
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Extra TAX on High-Milage Hybrids ?? WHAT !!
>
> Nick Austin wrote:
>
>>
>> Also, GPS is very easy to block, won't that cause problems?
>
> Anything can be tampered with. Blocking a GPS obviously must
> block the engine from running. C'mon, much more challenging
> technical tasks than this one have been solved.
>
>> <..snip..>
>>
>>> Technical implementation is not difficult.
>>
>> It seems like it is.
>
> Again, technical side is trivial. I use a GPS module in
> EVision system, it is treated by a circuit as any other
> sensor.
>
> It's just instituting it that present problem. Exactly the
> same as with EVs themselves - everyone knows how to build it
> (and it is simpler technically than ICE) but no one does
> (I mean OEM).
>
>> Thanks!
>
> You're welcome, but for what?
>
> Victor
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--- Begin Message ---
M Bianchi wrote:
> I have long argued that having block-by-block continuous equalization of a
> pack will pay off, and now I claim to have the evidence. 13 blocks, 10
> years, 23,000 miles.
That's good news, Mike. But I should point out that you really don't know what
would have happened if you didn't have the Badicheq, so you can't tell for
sure what its effect has been. You (and I) would guess that the batteries
wouldn't have lasted as long; but we don't really know.
I have a similar setup in my EV, with my own Battery Balancer. I used Concorde
AGMs, which anecdotal evidence from other EVers had said didn't last very
long without battery management. But with my Balancer, they are still usable
after 8 years, and perhaps 12k miles (the odometer has been broken since I
got the car).
But there have been a couple incidents to demonstrate to me that Balancing is
beneficial.
When the pack was about 4 years old, my EV was running with normal range and
performance. But I noticed one battery was getting almost all the balancing
current. I pulled that battery, and tested its amphour capacity. It was
delivering less than 1/4th the capacity of the rest! The Balancer was
"propping it up" by charging it heavily while driving, so it was not the weak
link. I had bought a spare Concorde which was in use as my accessory 12v
battery; so I swapped the weak one with the like-new accessory battery. With
the balancer, the replacement battery was kept in balance with the rest of
the pack, despite its noticeably different characteristics. Over time, it
just got "broken in" to work just like the rest. Due to its early light-duty
usage, it is still the strongest battery in the pack.
Three years ago, I pulled my Balancer out to use in another EV. To provide
something in the meantime, I installed a set of my cheap zener-lamp
regulators. They worked, but reduced range because the weakest battery set
the maximum depth of discharge, as in most EVs. I eventually put the Balancer
back in, because range was too short with just regulator-type charger
clamping.
Then last year, one of my batteries failed open. I had no more spares, but I
did have some used Johnson Controls Dynasty UPS12-270FR batteries of similar
capacity. I replaced the bad Concorde and the weak one in the accessory
battery position with two of the lower-capacity but newer UPS batteries. I
wired them both in the propulsion pack (changing from a 132v to a 144v
system). Despite the considerably different capacity and charging
characteristics, the Balancer is keeping them all pulling as a team.
Overall, this pack is pushing 8 years old and down to about half of my
original range. What allowed me to use it at all is that the Balancer is
holding them together well enough to keep driving.
Two months ago, I pulled the batteries to install heating mats under them.
Without them, I doubt my range would be adequate this winter with nothing but
their insulated boxes and waste heat from driving and charging. I still
haven't finished, and checking the batteries shows them to have quite a range
of capacities. It will be interesting to see what happens when I put them
back into service.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(U.S. Chamber of Commerce wants a hybrid tax)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/automotive/5402711/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=money
Homepage > Automotive
Group Suggests Hybrid Tax; Billing Drivers By Mile
Chamber Of Commerce Says Highway Trust Fund Depleting
POSTED: 12:49 pm EST November 25, 2005
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has suggested that the
federal government tax hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars.
The chamber said the federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of
money to maintain the nation's highways, and that Congress needs
to consider new sources of revenue.
Chamber leaders have also suggested billing drivers for miles
driven. Their study recommends the federal gas tax of about 18
cents a gallon be indexed for inflation.
Proponents said drivers should have to pay their fair share to
fill potholes and fix bridges, regardless of how much or what
kind of fuel they use.
Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- Begin Message ---
Editor's comments:
How off-base can this U.S. government agency be?
Or is there some other force swaying them to punish new
technologies?
Local SF hybrid dealers stated on KCBS.com radio that this
idea of taxing hybrids is counter to want the other U.S.
government agencies are trying to do: reduce foreign oil use
and pollution. These dealers are opposed to the idea of
singling out a small minority of vehicles to pay for the
wasteful spending habits or their pork-barrel projects.
Today's hybrids are lighter than the more common large ICE
vehicles. If an additional tax is to be created, target the
larger majority of heavier vehicles that do the most damage
to roads: vehicles that get less than 30 mpg.
So what is next, a tax on other AFVs: Electric, CNG, bio-diesel,
SVO, ... ???
Don't punish a small new minority of vehicles, tax those that
are truly responsible: heavy, wasteful ICE vehicles.
I ask that the EV Community share their views pro or con with
their governmental representatives (State Senators and local
Representative).
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(hybrids to be taxed to pay for lawmakers' pet projects)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051121/NEWS/511210342/1004/RSS&source=RSS
[...]
Congress provided for $244 billion in spending, but an analysis
this month by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce said the Highway Trust
Fund would not keep pace.
Concern is rising partly because of less gasoline consumption,
which is good for environmental causes but costs highway coffers
a lot of green.
[...]
The growing popularity of hybrid cars, which use less fuel,
worries analysts, too.
Critics say more than $24 billion in earmarks for lawmakers' pet
projects bloated the transportation bill. Those earmarks, known
as pork to critics of directed spending by lawmakers, have become
a symbol of largesse in deficit years.
===
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-11/25/content_497737.htm
Buyers of big cars will pay more tax
By Wu Chong (China Daily) Updated: 2005-11-25 05:47
Buyers of big cars will fork out more taxes and those who opt for
smaller models will pay less under a revised auto consumption tax
likely to come into force next year.
[...]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Altair Nanotechnologies manufacturing hybrid li-ion batteries)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theheraldbulletin.com/story.asp?id=16207
100 high-tech jobs coming to Anderson
Lindsay Whitehurst, Ken de la Bastide
A new company is locating at the Flagship Enterprise Center with
the promise of 100 new high-tech jobs in the future.
Nevada-based Altair Nanotechnologies will design and manufacture
lithium ion batteries and electronics for hybrid vehicles.
This is a truly great hit for the city of Anderson,? said Greg
Winkler, business consultant for the city. ?This is not just 100
jobs; it?s 100 jobs in the right market niche.?
The high-tech company announced last week that it has already
hired 11 battery experts and specialists ? mainly former Delphi
and General Motors employees ? to develop new lithium battery
technologies.
A $1.53 million economic incentives package, mainly in state tax
breaks, from the Indiana Economic Development Corp. (IDEC) helped
bring the company to Anderson. If the company creates 100 jobs by
2007, the company will get another $1.4 million.
The company is expected to make a $25 million investment in
Indiana to create those jobs, which will pay an average of $21.88
per hour.
Bringing this high-caliber company to Indiana is a great example
of how we can reach out to attract more technology-based,
high-growth businesses that will help advance and diversify our
economy,? said Patricia R. Miller, Indiana Secretary of Commerce.
?Altair Nanotechnologies will offer Hoosiers important
high-paying jobs in the advanced manufacturing and
high-technology industry.?
Altair uses nanotechnology to create everything from advanced
materials to pharmaceuticals.
The company will place research and development operations in a
4,000-square-foot space in the Business Development Center, said
Art Patterson, executive director for the Anderson Business
Development Center incubator.
We had what they needed and when they needed it,? Patterson said.
?They will have a state-of-the-art dry room, where they can
control the humidity and keep it less than 1 percent. The key was
that we had a research and development facility ready for
immediate occupancy.?
Altairnano wanted to locate its research facility close to its
key customers, and there was no place better than Anderson.
Anderson?s technical heritage in the distributed electrical power
industry and its role in shaping the automobile over the last
century fit Altairnano?s market niche, as well as future global
markets. ?
This announcement proves that Anderson is becoming the place to
establish new business,? Mayor Kevin S. Smith said. ?We are
aggressively pursuing great companies like Altairnano and
providing the infrastructure they will need to make their
business succeed.?
Altairnano will join companies like Remy International already
exploring hybrid technology in Anderson.
Our technology will be capable of replacing battery systems that
are environmentally unfriendly and incapable of producing the
high-charge and discharge rates required to meet many demands for
?green? batteries,? said Altairnano CEO and President Alan J.
Gotcher.
Business development, marketing and sales personnel will also be
located in Altairnano?s Anderson facility and is in close
proximity to target markets and key suppliers. Last week the
company began preliminary R&D operations at the Flagship
Enterprise Center in Anderson.
The future of our community and state will be built on
collaborative efforts like this,? said Flagship Enterprise CEO
Charles E. Staley. ?The city of Anderson, the Flagship Enterprise
Center, and the state of Indiana have teamed up to bring
Altairnano, a cutting-edge nanotechnology company, to Anderson.?
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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